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to 500-500. I'm

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Margaret Brennan in Washington and this week on

1:52

Face the Nation, Iran launches

1:54

a massive retaliatory attack on

1:56

Israel. Will it lead to

1:58

a major escalation? in the region. Overnight,

2:04

Iran launched its first ever direct

2:06

attack in Israel. Most

2:09

of the hundreds of drones and missiles were

2:11

shot down by Israeli defense systems. And

2:13

its allies, including the U.S. in

2:15

a powerful show of international support.

2:19

But how? And will

2:21

Israel respond? And will

2:23

those allies be able to keep the response in

2:25

check, declaring before

2:28

the attack that whoever pertuss, we heard

2:30

him, the pressure on

2:32

Prime Minister Netanyahu to not engage

2:34

further and put an end to

2:37

the war with Hamas grows. President

2:39

Biden is also under pressure to rein

2:41

in the Israeli Prime Minister. And

2:44

back at home politically, America's support

2:46

for the Israeli side of the

2:48

war with Hamas in Gaza is

2:50

dropping, especially among

2:52

Democrats. We'll have the

2:55

latest news and tell you why what

2:57

happens next is crucial to the security

2:59

of the Mideast and

3:01

the perception of the U.S. leadership around

3:03

the world. It's all

3:05

that has to face the nation.

3:10

Good morning and

3:14

welcome to

3:18

Face the Nation. As

3:26

we come on the air, we are

3:28

learning that the damage from those strikes

3:30

overnight has been extremely limited. And we

3:33

are now waiting word or actions from

3:35

the Israelis about their response. President

3:37

Biden spoke last night to Prime Minister Netanyahu,

3:40

and we'll hear more about that in a moment. Here

3:43

in the U.S., there is increasing political pressure

3:45

on President Biden on a number of fronts

3:48

when it comes to doing something to

3:51

end Israel's six-month-long war on Hamas

3:53

in Gaza. Our new

3:55

CBS News poll, taken before the Iran

3:57

strikes, show that only a third of

3:59

Americans Iraq and the prove a present

4:02

bide his handling of the conflict

4:04

that's down five point since February

4:06

in fact, within his own party.

4:08

More. Democrats Now sympathize quote

4:10

a lot with the Palestinian

4:13

people. That's. A larger number

4:15

than sympathize a lot with the

4:17

Israelis. Are. Deborah Patter

4:19

reports from Tel Aviv on the attack.

4:22

And. The aftermath. From

4:25

the North to the solve,

4:27

Israel's powerful A Defense systems

4:29

intercepted more than three hundred

4:31

Iranian drones and missiles with

4:34

the help of the United

4:36

States, Jordan, and the Uk.

4:38

It is this scenario everyone

4:40

has feared since the October

4:42

Seven, Hamas attacked a state

4:45

to state confrontation that could

4:47

spiral into a. Regional was.

4:51

Hardline he radio supporters. Celebrates

4:53

his. This was as the

4:55

regime posted this. their operation

4:57

to Promise had exceeded. The

5:01

Sky To Israel Saying it, it's

5:03

assisted ninety nine percent of the

5:06

incoming projectiles. The number

5:08

of uranium me from

5:10

from inside he's thirty

5:12

coors causing minor damage

5:14

to a military base

5:16

with no casualties, Israel.

5:18

Still, Weighing up it's response,

5:20

but a former senior Israeli

5:22

diplomats to the Us alone

5:24

Pincus told us President Biden

5:27

warned Prime Minister Netanyahu last

5:29

night not to retaliate. My

5:31

understanding was that Biden told

5:34

Mr. Netanyahu few acts against

5:36

Iran. Based on this. We

5:39

will not stand by you. Think

5:41

has said. Netanyahu said effects from

5:44

a war with Iran given growing

5:46

anger here over his government's failure

5:48

to protect his radio from the

5:51

October Seven attack. Mister an

5:53

attorney, I'll have one in an

5:55

escalation with Iran as early as

5:57

November. For him, it was a

6:00

way to changed in there to

6:02

distance himself from October Seventh by

6:04

wrapping it in a bigger stores

6:06

in a bigger odd narrative just

6:08

hours. Before the attack, tens

6:11

of thousands of his writing

6:13

demonstrated took to the streets

6:15

of Tennessee's protesting against Netanyahu's

6:17

mishandling of the war in

6:19

Gaza and rising tensions with

6:22

he ran. Think

6:24

is also told us he ran,

6:26

had deliberately telegraph details of the

6:28

strike and new most of the

6:30

cells and runs for these shots

6:32

down allowing you ran a self

6:35

and all spectacle with minimal damage

6:37

that Israel can choose to walk.

6:39

Away from. Us

6:41

are Deborah Powder in Israel and

6:43

we turn now to Coordinator for

6:45

Strategic Communications at the White House

6:48

National Security Council. John Kirby. Good

6:50

morning and welcome back! Thank you

6:52

Margaret Good Agree with what do

6:54

you believe that Iran intended these

6:56

straight to be successful and lethal?

6:58

Or just look like they. Could.

7:00

Be or No questions come out. The

7:02

size and scale scope of what they

7:04

fire is Israel from Iran proper? more

7:06

than three hundred missiles and drones. They

7:08

want to cause damage, no question about

7:11

that, but they were utterly unsuccessful in

7:13

doing so. What? Israel

7:15

clearly has a military upper

7:17

hand here, but the Israeli

7:19

Foreign Minister said days ago,

7:21

that is. That. Israel will

7:23

respond. If Iran attacks from it's territories,

7:25

you just. Said they did exactly

7:28

that. So has Israel committed

7:30

to the Us that they

7:32

will give a heads up

7:34

before they take action against

7:36

Iran. I don't think I'm grew

7:38

into the details of the conversation that the

7:40

that we have last night. The between a

7:42

prison and the Prime Minister was a good

7:45

can. It was a good conversation really focused

7:47

on the incredible success that that is Rajiv

7:49

last night with their partners. I mean to

7:51

really things as if things are clear about

7:53

last. Night One: Israel doesn't stand alone

7:56

and the I stayed. stands with of

7:58

as well as others and to the

8:00

The Israeli military does have superior capability

8:02

to be able to defend itself. But

8:04

as for what the next steps are, I

8:06

think I'll leave that to the Prime Minister

8:08

and the War Cabinet to talk about. And

8:11

that War Cabinet meeting is ongoing, but I

8:13

ask because, as you know, the U.S. has

8:16

significant presence in the region, troops in Iraq,

8:18

in Syria, in Jordan. We do indeed. And

8:21

there is risk to them. Absolutely. And

8:23

you said, and Pentagon spokesperson said,

8:25

that the U.S. was not notified

8:27

in advance by Israel before they

8:29

carried out the April 1st attack

8:31

that started this chain of events.

8:34

Should they have forewarned the United States?

8:37

And as a matter of principle, what is the

8:39

U.S. position on bombing what Iran

8:41

says is a diplomatic facility? Again,

8:44

I won't talk about the details of that particular

8:46

strike. To the larger

8:48

point, obviously, we do have a lot of troops

8:50

in Iraq and Syria going after ISIS. We

8:53

have a lot of facilities elsewhere in the region and

8:55

ships at sea. And so what

8:57

happens there certainly has an effect on us. And

9:00

we do want to make sure that the

9:02

conversation up, we want to make sure the

9:04

conversations we're having with the Israelis are as

9:06

contextual as possible so that we can make

9:08

the necessary preparations for our own troops

9:10

and facilities. The other message the president sent over

9:13

the last few days, and certainly it was discussed

9:15

last night, is we're going to take

9:17

whatever steps we need to take to

9:20

protect our troops, our ships, our facilities

9:22

in the region going forward. And that was the

9:24

case last night, before the strikes last night,

9:26

and it's going to be the case today going

9:29

forward. Does the U.S. need to be prepared to

9:31

draw down a presence from any of our diplomatic

9:33

facilities? Are we positioned to do so? That's a

9:35

conversation that the president and Secretary Blinken are having

9:37

literally in real time. They talked about

9:39

that as well yesterday. I won't speak for Secretary Blinken

9:41

and the State Department. They'll make those

9:43

kinds of force protection decisions as they see

9:45

the threat in the region. But the threat

9:47

changes from time to time, and you're always

9:49

monitoring that. I know you don't want to go into a

9:52

phone call between leaders, but the fundamental

9:55

premise of what we're talking about

9:57

here is the blowback for the

9:59

United States. So do you have

10:01

reason to believe that Prime Minister Netanyahu

10:03

shares the desire not to escalate

10:06

this further, which the president has

10:08

made clear is his intent? I

10:10

would say that the prime minister

10:12

is well aware that the president is not

10:14

looking for a conflict with Iran, that the

10:16

president doesn't want the tensions to escalate anymore,

10:19

and that the president is doing everything and

10:21

has since the 7th of October to

10:23

try to keep this from becoming a broader regional

10:25

war. I mean, one of the reasons

10:28

we were able to help the Israelis knock down

10:30

so many of these missiles and drones is because

10:32

the president made decisions in recent days

10:34

to preposition additional ships in the eastern

10:36

Mediterranean and an extra fighter squadron in

10:39

the region that literally had a huge

10:41

impact on last night. To

10:43

deter, what could have been more? To

10:45

prevent a greater

10:48

sense of destruction inside Israel.

10:50

Would the U.S. participate in offensive action

10:52

if there is an Israeli reprisal? I'm

10:54

not going to get into hypotheticals, Margaret. As

10:56

I said, the president made it clear we're

10:59

not looking for a war with Iran, we're

11:01

not looking for a broader regional conflict, and

11:03

everything we've been doing since the

11:05

7th has been designed to prevent that

11:07

outcome. Because the IRGC chief of staff

11:09

went on TV saying they sent a

11:11

message to the U.S. via the Swiss

11:13

embassy saying if the U.S. participates in

11:15

an Israeli reprisal, U.S. bases and personnel

11:18

will not be in the security zone.

11:20

Yeah, I'm mindful of the comment and the

11:22

statement. And again, I'm just going back to what I said before.

11:24

We're not looking for a war with Iran, not looking

11:26

for a broader regional conflict. But the

11:29

other thing the president has made clear is we will

11:31

do what we have to do to help Israel defend

11:33

itself, and we did last night, and we will do

11:35

everything we need to do to make sure our troops,

11:37

our facilities, and our ships at sea in the region are

11:40

also protected. We have interest in the

11:42

region too. Now, obviously we're all focused on Israel,

11:44

and rightly so. But we have broader national security

11:46

interests in the Middle East. We have a forced

11:48

posture that we're constantly monitoring to make sure we

11:50

can meet those interests. The president takes

11:52

that seriously, and that has been communicated

11:54

to Iran as well. And the Iraqi prime

11:57

minister will be at the White House this

11:59

week talking about it. tomorrow. Tomorrow.

12:01

Tomorrow. Yes, we do

12:03

anticipate having a

12:05

good discussion about not just

12:07

the force posture but the mission set inside

12:09

Iraq and what that looks like. I think

12:11

you know it's an advise and assist mission.

12:13

It's to help the Iraqi Defense

12:15

Forces and their operations to go

12:17

after ISIS inside Iraq. The

12:20

Mossad announced this morning that Hamas

12:22

rejected this latest proposal for

12:24

the release of hostages saying

12:26

it proved Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas leader

12:29

in Gaza, does not want a deal.

12:31

Does the US share that assessment? Is

12:33

the diplomacy dead or is this just

12:35

another bump in the road? We're not considering

12:37

diplomacy dead. There is a new deal on the

12:39

table that Director Burns negotiated a week or so

12:42

ago in Cairo. It is a good deal. It

12:44

would get dozens of

12:46

the most at risk women, elderly,

12:48

the wounded out, get us a six-week

12:50

ceasefire, so a little bit more calm and get

12:52

us an opportunity to get more humanitarian assistance in.

12:55

The Hamas leaders need to take that

12:58

deal and we're not considering this dead

13:00

at this point. That Mossad rejection is

13:02

not closing. We're not considering it a

13:04

dead letter. Okay. Last Sunday

13:06

when you were here you told us that

13:09

the US expected to have talks with Israel

13:11

perhaps as soon as this week about their

13:13

plans to go into southern Gaza in Tarifah.

13:15

When is that happening? Do we have any

13:18

further details? We think that discussion, first of

13:20

all there's been some staff technical level talks

13:23

even since you and I last spoke. We

13:25

expect that larger conversation with our Israeli counterparts

13:27

to happen in coming days hopefully this week.

13:30

Hopefully this week. Thank

13:33

you very much. Thank you. Well we

13:35

turn now to the Republican Chairman of

13:37

the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Texas Congressman

13:39

Michael McCaul. Welcome back to the program.

13:41

Thanks for having me, Margaret. We just

13:44

heard from Mr. Kirby about the

13:46

conversations in regard to US personnel

13:48

in the region. In your role you

13:50

have oversight of the State Department and some of

13:52

these embassies. How concerned are

13:54

you about the security threats to

13:57

Americans abroad and is the

13:59

US prepared? to do an evacuation. We're

14:01

always concerned that we don't want escalation in

14:03

the region. That would be a threat to

14:05

our troops and our embassies. As

14:08

I understand, talking to the State Department, the embassy is

14:10

in good shape right now in Israel.

14:13

Yeah, and I think the fact of the matter is, as Mr.

14:15

Kirby mentioned, is 99% of these rockets and

14:18

drones are shot down. Pretty impressive

14:21

display of force, showing a

14:23

force in collaboration with the United States,

14:26

Jordan and other allies. And

14:28

it also showed us Iran's not 10 feet tall. Not

14:32

10 feet tall militarily. Fair

14:36

assessment there. So I'm sure then

14:38

you don't agree with some of your Republican colleagues who

14:40

are saying that this necessitates any

14:43

kind of military action against Iran?

14:45

Well, I do think that this is a

14:48

choice for Israel. We cannot have daylight between

14:50

us. We had some daylight prior

14:52

to this, where we're joined with them. And I

14:54

know Ganz came out with a statement saying we

14:56

want to be joined with our regional partners. The

14:59

War Cabinet members who is more centrist

15:01

than Prime Minister Netanyahu. I think a

15:03

proportionate response here. I think one option

15:05

would be to take out the facilities

15:07

where these drones and rockets came from

15:10

and also destroy the manufacturing facilities that

15:12

build the drones and rockets. Not

15:14

just for Israel's sake, but also

15:16

for Ukraine's sake. Because these rockets and

15:19

these drones are being bought by Russia

15:21

and they're killing on Ukraine's every day.

15:23

What happened in Israel last night? Happens

15:27

in Ukraine every night. And Ukraine's

15:29

ambassador to the United States, Oksana Markarova, was

15:31

tweeting about that point. She

15:33

called it an axis of evil between Russia,

15:35

Iran and North Korea. But the Speaker of

15:38

the House doesn't seem to share, and we've

15:41

talked about this before, the sense

15:43

of emergency that you have. Why

15:46

is there still not a date for

15:48

a vote on Ukraine? I did see the statement

15:50

from Steve Scalise, the whip, saying that

15:53

there should be a consideration of legislation to support

15:55

Israel. But what does that mean? Is that a

15:57

vote on the national security supplemental? a

16:00

speaker determination. I'll be speaking, talking

16:02

to him this evening with

16:05

other national security people and chairs.

16:08

I think it's, I talked to the ambassador,

16:10

our ambassador to Ukraine as well. She said

16:12

the situation is dire. You know,

16:14

Kharkiv could implode any day now.

16:16

That's 2 million people. And

16:19

the power grid is under threat right now. If

16:21

the power grid goes out in Ukraine altogether,

16:24

we don't have time on our side here,

16:26

Margaret. We have to get this done. I

16:28

would import, when I need to

16:30

educate my colleagues, they're all tied together. I

16:33

mean, Iran is selling this stuff

16:35

to Russia. Guess who's buying Iran's

16:38

energy? China. And you know why?

16:40

Because we lifted or waved the

16:42

sanctions that we had this administration

16:45

on the drones and the missiles

16:47

and on the energy. This has

16:49

given them a hundred billion dollars

16:51

in cash to fund their terror

16:53

operations. And that's why we're seeing

16:55

this. Okay. But you

16:57

still don't have a commitment from the Republican Speaker

17:00

of the House to vote on what you say

17:02

is a Republican priority that has to drive you

17:04

mad here. Do you expect to get an

17:06

answer when you talk to the speaker tonight? I have

17:08

a commitment that will come to the floor.

17:10

My preference is when this week, your

17:13

preference, but still an open question. I

17:15

mean, the speaker of the house went down to Mar-a-Lago

17:17

this week, stood beside Donald Trump. And

17:20

we have not heard the Republican front

17:22

runner in any way endorse the package

17:24

that you were saying there are Republican votes

17:26

to pass yet. He did say he supports this

17:29

idea of a loan program. 80% of the funding

17:31

goes into- But that's not in the national security

17:33

supplemental. Well, that

17:35

would be added in

17:37

our bill. Right. And in

17:40

addition, repo, my statute to get

17:42

into the Russian sovereign assets to

17:44

help pay for this. In addition,

17:46

80 billion of this money, 80%,

17:49

I should say, of the Ukraine funding

17:51

goes into our defense industrial base to

17:54

replenish and modernize our stockpile in

17:56

the United States. These are all compelling arguments

17:58

that the Senate built. doesn't have. And

18:01

so I, I, I, an eternal optimist,

18:04

I'm doing my part. I, I, look,

18:06

we didn't pick and choose our enemies

18:09

in World War II. We went after

18:11

all of them, Japan, Italy, and

18:13

Germany. We can't just pick, you know,

18:15

and say Iran's bad, but Russia's

18:18

okay, and China's bad. We can't do

18:20

stand-alone. They're all in this together, and

18:22

it's very clear to those of us

18:25

in the intelligence, national security community. You,

18:27

you said something interesting here. You said you

18:30

have to educate your colleagues. Our

18:32

polling shows that among

18:34

Republicans, the most

18:36

trusted source of information on Ukraine and

18:39

Russia is Donald Trump, 79% congressman, 60%

18:41

trust the Pentagon, conservative

18:46

media 56%, which is

18:48

separated from actual journalists in war zones,

18:50

which is 33%, the State Department 27%.

18:54

How do you fight that information war? When

18:57

the Republican front-runner for the presidential

18:59

nomination is helping to spread

19:01

some of that disinformation. Well, I think

19:03

that's precisely why the speaker went down to

19:05

Milagro to talk to him about the Ukraine

19:08

package, to get him to

19:10

agree that, you know, this loan program for

19:12

direct government assistance like the EU does would

19:15

be acceptable. Remember the first lethal aid

19:17

package ever went to Ukraine that I

19:19

signed off on $300 million, what

19:22

came from the Trump administration.

19:26

They don't want to see us lose

19:28

in Ukraine like we did in Afghanistan.

19:30

The repercussions long term, a weaker America,

19:32

not stronger. I don't think Trump wants

19:34

to own that. I think he wants

19:36

to help us get to the point

19:38

where he gets in and he can

19:40

finish the job. But that doesn't that

19:42

graphic tell us that in order for any

19:44

bill to pass, you need Donald Trump to endorse it,

19:47

even though he's not even in office. I,

19:49

you know, I'll be asking, he has tremendous influence

19:51

over my conference. And that's why

19:53

it's important that we have these discussions

19:55

with him. But we also, we're all

19:57

independent thinkers. We represent our own districts.

20:00

I happen to think that we haven't

20:02

seen a threat like this since my

20:05

dad's World War II, and if we

20:07

don't stick together against this unholy alliance

20:10

that came after Afghanistan, remember,

20:13

Afghanistan was the turning point. And

20:15

that is when the Russian Federation came into

20:17

Ukraine, Chairman Xi is looking at Taiwan, Ayatollah,

20:20

rear his ugly head. Well, they first invaded

20:22

in 2014, but... Correct.

20:26

Yes. I take your point. We'll see

20:28

if that phone call changes minds or

20:31

if the meeting in Mar-a-Lago did. June's

20:33

Journey is a fascinating hidden object mystery

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or download the app today. We'll

21:42

follow this. Thank you. Thank you,

21:44

Mary. Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us. We're

21:47

joined now by Arizona Democratic Senator Mark

21:49

Kelly. Welcome back to Face the Nation,

21:52

Senator. Thank

21:54

you for having me on, Margaret. I

21:56

know you are on the Intelligence Committee. You track

21:58

a lot of national security. issues. The

22:02

US intelligence assessment back in February

22:04

that was declassified said Iran is

22:07

quote not currently undertaking the key

22:09

nuclear weapons development activities necessary to

22:11

produce a testable nuclear device. Are

22:14

you concerned that some of these

22:16

calls for strikes on Iran by

22:18

Israel or for even US participation

22:20

in them could that change Iran's

22:23

calculus? Well

22:26

I think it could and that's why

22:28

we don't want to see this escalate.

22:30

You know last night we supported Israel

22:33

in their defense very successfully. This

22:35

is a very aggressive act

22:38

by Iran. They've been

22:40

you know doing this for months now

22:42

through their proxies but now directly from

22:44

Iranian territory so this is significant. We

22:47

don't want to see this escalate into a wider conflict.

22:50

At the same time I

22:52

am constantly looking at the

22:54

Iranian nuclear weapon capability. They

22:57

could get pretty close pretty fast if

22:59

they chose to do that. But they

23:02

have not as yet decided

23:04

to make that political decision. That

23:07

is our intelligence communities

23:11

analysis of this and

23:13

I would agree with that. Okay. In

23:16

a poll that was taken before this Iranian

23:18

reprisal, Democrats support

23:20

for sending weapons to Israel has

23:22

dropped from almost half to a

23:25

third since October 7th according

23:27

to our latest poll that

23:29

we released today. Democrats are now

23:31

more sympathetic to Palestinians than to

23:34

Israelis. Are you concerned

23:36

that Israel's conduct in this war

23:38

in Gaza and the use of

23:40

US military equipment is going to

23:43

hurt President Biden in November? Well

23:47

my first concern here is

23:51

the Israeli people and the Palestinian people. I

23:54

mean Israel was violently attacked on October 7th.

23:57

I've watched an

23:59

hour of footage from that day. It

24:01

was horrific and Israel has a right to

24:03

defend itself. The way this

24:05

has been conducted in Gaza, I

24:07

have serious concerns. I've expressed those

24:10

just most recently about a week

24:13

ago with the Israeli Prime Minister

24:15

about what happened with the World

24:17

Central Kitchen. Reckless act and irresponsible

24:20

and they need to do better.

24:23

We provide them with significant aid and we're going

24:25

to need to provide them with more by the

24:27

way here because of what happened last night. We're

24:29

going to need to replenish their rounds.

24:32

Yeah I mean I'm always you

24:34

know I'm concerned with perceptions and

24:37

an election but the thing that's

24:39

always top of mind for me because

24:42

I sit on the Intelligence Committee, I'm on

24:45

the Armed Services Committee, it's our own national

24:47

security and the national security of our allies.

24:50

And Senator I know you've been concerned

24:52

about the security of Ukraine as well

24:54

and that national security supplemental. I want

24:56

to talk to you more in depth about

24:59

that and what's happening in your home state in a moment

25:01

but I'm gonna have to take a commercial break here so

25:03

stay with us and we hope

25:05

that all of you will stay with us as

25:07

we talk as well about the Arizona Supreme Court

25:09

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26:44

today. The political world. Stay

26:47

with us. For

26:49

the first time in American history,

26:52

a former president will stand trial

26:54

in a criminal case beginning tomorrow.

26:57

Former President Trump is accused of

26:59

falsifying business records in a hush

27:01

money scheme to cover up an

27:03

alleged affair with adult film star

27:05

Stormy Daniels. At a campaign

27:07

rally last night in Pennsylvania, Trump alleged

27:09

that the trials were part of a

27:12

Democrat-led effort to keep him from running

27:14

and winning the election. This

27:16

is what you call a communist show

27:18

trial. And we're going communist, don't kid

27:21

yourself. We don't win this election. This

27:24

country is finished. We'll be

27:26

right back with a lot more Face the

27:28

Nation and more from Senator Kelly, as well

27:30

as analysis on the Iranian attack, plus an

27:32

interview with the head of the International Monetary

27:34

Fund, Kristalina Georgieva. That's in our next half

27:37

hour, so don't go away. Transcribed

27:46

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29:44

back to Face the Nation. We are

29:47

continuing our conversation now with Senator Mark

29:49

Kelly. Senator, before we leave

29:51

national security space, I want to ask

29:53

you about some U.S. intelligence information declassified

29:55

and shared with reporters this week at

29:58

the White House that China's

30:00

surging equipment to Russia for

30:02

its war with Ukraine, helping

30:04

Moscow fill gaps in

30:07

its production cycle, including helping to

30:09

produce drones and artillery. Why

30:12

is China using this moment to

30:15

help Russia with its war in Ukraine? Well,

30:19

I think they realize that Russia,

30:21

the outcome of this war, Russia

30:23

against Ukraine, is critical for their

30:26

own decisions with Taiwan and the

30:28

Western Pacific. This is all connected. Iran,

30:31

Ukraine, China, the

30:34

stock of Ukrainian ammunition is dwindling.

30:36

They're going to run out of

30:39

ammunition. Russia's capacity, we look

30:41

at this all the time, is going up

30:43

with the help of China. Russia

30:46

can win this. If we support

30:48

Ukraine, Ukraine can win. We

30:50

passed an emergency supplemental two months

30:52

ago. It's sitting on the speaker's

30:54

desk. He should bring that

30:56

to the floor tomorrow night, get it passed.

30:59

This is also going to help Israel.

31:01

We could replenish the stocks that they

31:04

used last night. I

31:08

take your point, Senator, on them all being connected.

31:11

I want to ask you about what's happening

31:13

in your home state of Arizona. As you

31:15

know, the state court ruled

31:17

in 1864. Civil

31:20

War era law can take effect

31:23

that would criminalize abortion. It's on hold

31:25

at the moment, but this is

31:27

a live issue. Do you have

31:29

confidence that your state legislators will

31:31

take action before it goes into

31:33

effect? Well,

31:36

let me start by saying this has been a disaster

31:38

for women in Arizona. They've lost

31:40

a fundamental right to abortion, and it's all because

31:42

of Donald Trump. And

31:44

our legislature, yeah, they tried to

31:46

fix this a couple days ago.

31:48

That did not work. We've got

31:50

a ballot initiative in November to

31:53

fix this. Donald Trump owns

31:55

this. He said just yesterday that

31:57

he broke Roe v. Wade. And

32:00

because he did that this enabled our

32:02

court to bring back this

32:04

draconian 1864

32:07

a law to take away this

32:09

right send doctors to jail I

32:12

mean to be fair your Republican state legislators

32:14

have some agency here, too They could

32:16

have done something different, but

32:19

I take your they could have they could have and

32:22

Right. They did not do do anything about

32:25

it. They had the opportunity But

32:27

there is that initiative you just mentioned

32:30

to put on the ballot in November

32:32

a chance for your state to vote

32:34

on this particular issue And

32:37

it would guarantee abortion access up to

32:39

viability which is anywhere between 21 and

32:41

24 weeks typically of

32:43

pregnancy From

32:46

a political position how much is this going

32:48

to help? Offset

32:50

some of the disappointment and exhaustion we're

32:52

seeing in polling from Democratic voters

32:55

will this issue Drive

32:57

up turnout in a way that benefits

32:59

the president in your state Well,

33:03

my first concern is women in Arizona and

33:05

their and their health and women could die

33:07

from this 1864 Ruling

33:10

that once again was enabled by the

33:12

former president. So that's my biggest concern

33:15

We're gonna have an election in November.

33:17

I imagine we're gonna have large turnout

33:19

because of this issue I also

33:22

want to point out Margaret that I don't think this

33:24

represents who we are In the

33:26

state of Arizona. This is a moment in time.

33:28

We're gonna get through this We have

33:31

an opportunity to fix this in November

33:34

Well, we will be watching to see

33:36

what happens senator. Thank you very

33:38

much For joining us. Thank

33:41

you. Thank you, Margaret today And we're

33:43

gonna go now to the former commander for US

33:45

Central Command general Frank McKenzie Who is also the

33:47

author of a new book the melting

33:50

point available in June? General

33:54

welcome back to face the

33:56

nation given what

33:59

you just saw play out in the last

34:01

24 hours, I wonder if

34:03

you think that deterrence

34:06

has been reestablished. And

34:09

on the spectrum of options that Iran had

34:11

before it, how big did it go

34:13

last night? Well,

34:17

first of all, good to see you, Margaret. I

34:19

think this was a big attack by Iran. I

34:21

think this was as close to a maximum effort as

34:23

they could generate, and I'll illustrate it in this way.

34:26

Iran has over 3,000 missiles

34:28

of various types scattered around the

34:30

country. They have about

34:33

100, probably a little more than that,

34:35

missiles largely in western Iran that can

34:37

target Israel. Based on

34:39

what the Israelis are saying, I believe they fired most

34:41

of those weapons at Israel. The

34:44

Israelis obviously were able to intercept most of them.

34:46

Iran could not replicate last night's

34:49

attack tonight if they had to.

34:51

Now, they also used cruise missiles and they

34:54

used drones to try to

34:56

present a multidimensional problem to the Israelis.

34:59

It was a maximum effort. Now, the Iranians

35:01

are going to backtrack and talk about moderation.

35:03

There was nothing moderate about this attack, and

35:05

I think John Kirby nailed it precisely when

35:07

he was talking to you earlier about the

35:09

nature and scope of the Iranian attack. It

35:11

was indiscriminate, and it was designed to cause

35:13

casualties. So we should just consider that as

35:16

we take a look at it. Now, has

35:18

the terrorists been reset? I think the Israelis

35:20

performed magnificently with our assistance and the assistance

35:22

of other nations in the region, including

35:25

the United Kingdom. And so I

35:27

think that now the Iranians have

35:29

to sit back and consider what

35:31

they considered their most important capability.

35:33

Their ballistic missiles, their drones, and

35:35

their cruise missiles have now

35:38

been employed in a major combat

35:40

test, and frankly, that test has

35:42

failed. So I think Israel

35:44

this morning is now much stronger than

35:46

they were yesterday, and Iran is relatively

35:48

weaker than it was yesterday. But

35:52

now it comes down to political decisions

35:54

that Israel's leadership will be making. And

35:56

as you heard John Kirby say, those

35:58

decisions haven't been made yet. get on

36:01

what a reprisal will look like by

36:03

Israel. Would

36:05

you advise, if you were in your former role,

36:08

Israeli leaders to pull back

36:11

here, how concerned are

36:13

you about a regional escalation? So

36:18

I think one of the opportunities

36:20

for the victor in

36:22

a major battle that was just fought that Israel

36:24

won is the opportunity to use restraint. And

36:27

I would counsel restraint. There will be

36:29

voices that will urge Israelis

36:31

to take out the Iranian nuclear program, which

36:34

I think is a false chimera anyway. But

36:36

I would argue that if you're going to

36:38

do something and they may have to do

36:40

something, I would be precise. I would be

36:42

short. The fact of the matter is, Israel

36:44

can name the price they want to exact.

36:46

The wide gap between Iranian zealotry and enthusiasm

36:48

and Israeli competence has now been laid bare

36:50

for all to see. So the Israelis will

36:52

be able to do what they want. But

36:54

sometimes when you're in that position, knowing

36:57

some restraint is the best strategic option that you

36:59

can take. Chairman McCaul

37:01

was here and he said, we see now Iran

37:03

is not 10 feet tall. It sounds like you're

37:05

saying Israel can

37:07

shrug this off. I

37:11

don't think Israel can shrug it off because I

37:13

think Israel still needs to be concerned about Lebanese

37:15

Hezbollah up north in Lebanon. They do have the

37:18

ability to hurt Israel if they come into the

37:20

fight. Interesting, last night there were

37:22

some tactical back and forth in the northern

37:24

border, but nothing like the volume of fires

37:26

that L.H., Lebanese Hezbollah, could have generated had

37:29

they wanted to come into the fight. The

37:31

fact that they did not choose to do

37:33

so is, I think, very, very important. It's

37:35

a very important thing to note because they

37:37

know and understand what Israel can do to

37:40

them. I've never viewed the Iranians as being

37:42

10 foot tall. I don't think the Israelis

37:44

have either. I have a healthy respect for

37:46

at least their enthusiasm and their willingness

37:48

to undertake things

37:50

that we saw last night. But now the

37:52

Iranians have got to sit back and although

37:54

they'll never say it publicly, they're going to

37:56

have to re-examine some of

37:59

the very basic. concepts of the way

38:01

they've constructed their military. And

38:03

Lebanese Hezbollah has been, has not

38:05

entered this conflict today in

38:08

a substantial way. I know you've been

38:10

warning for a while that's the player

38:12

to watch. You

38:15

were directly involved in the

38:18

taking out of IRGC commander

38:20

Qasem Soleimani during the Trump

38:22

administration and then Iran's

38:24

retaliation at that time was also

38:27

viewed as fairly restrained. How

38:29

concerned should the United States be

38:31

though now in this moment about

38:33

U.S. personnel and U.S. troop presence

38:35

in places like Iraq and Syria?

38:37

As you know this is a

38:39

live issue at the White

38:42

House this week as the Iraqi Prime Minister visits.

38:46

Our force is distributed across

38:48

Iraq and Syria supporting the

38:51

armed forces of Iraq and anti-ISIS operations

38:53

and supporting our SDA partners in eastern

38:55

Syria. Those forces are vulnerable to an

38:58

Iranian or an Iranian proxy attack. We

39:00

recognize that. I think that's why the

39:02

president's been very forceful in warning them.

39:04

Now it's also very instructive that the

39:06

Iranians did not choose to attack us

39:09

as they conducted a major

39:11

strategic attack on Israel. So they've listened

39:13

to that. The Iranians know

39:15

that we have the capability if they choose

39:17

to fight us to hurt them very badly

39:19

and I think that the Iranians will think

39:22

long and hard before undertaking attacks against us

39:24

in the future. If

39:26

Israel were to respond would you have

39:29

suggested targets? What would you expect? Well

39:33

Israelis have a lot to choose from both

39:35

inside Iran and outside Iran. My

39:38

only strategic advice would be

39:40

you want to be narrow, you want

39:43

to make sure that it has

39:45

a definable beginning and a definable end and

39:47

the Iranians know when it's over. But

39:50

the fact of the matter is Israel

39:52

can name its price right now and that's

39:54

a very heady position to be in. But

39:56

it's also a position

39:58

that calls for extra exercise a strategic

40:00

restraint and a view to the long

40:03

term. And Israel has an opportunity here,

40:05

I think, to demonstrate that and to

40:07

seize the diplomatic initiative really

40:09

in an arena where they struggled to do it

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over the past few months. We

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41:17

That political decision, General,

41:19

thank you very much

41:22

for your analysis. We're

41:25

joined now by CBS News National Security

41:27

Contributor, Samantha Vinograd, formerly the Assistant

41:30

Secretary of Counterterrorism at Homeland Security, and she

41:32

served on the National Security Council in the

41:34

Obama administration. Great to have you back, Sam.

41:37

Good to see you. So

41:40

we're talking about decisions that have to be made

41:42

at the top of the Israeli government right now.

41:45

The United States and Israel are

41:47

still lockstep on defense matters, but

41:51

we know there's this rift in terms

41:53

of the choices the prime minister has

41:55

been making lately. There

41:58

are sources that I speak to. within the Biden

42:01

administration who are concerned about the

42:03

decision-making Netanyahu is taking on and

42:06

sources in the region who say

42:08

there's a political benefit to war.

42:13

Did Iran just throw Benjamin Netanyahu a lifeline

42:15

at a time? He's politically embattled at home.

42:17

Well, I think that when we take a

42:19

step back and look at how Israel views

42:22

the threat of Iran, this is an existential

42:24

threat to the state of Israel, and we

42:26

cannot forget that. That said,

42:28

having worked closely with the government of

42:30

Israel while at the White House, it

42:32

is true that Benjamin Netanyahu for

42:34

a long time has been staking

42:36

his political dominance on

42:39

existential threats to Israel and needing to remain

42:42

in power. So I do think that

42:44

the attack against Israel last night

42:46

will give Benjamin Netanyahu more to

42:48

hold onto. It is also true,

42:50

Margaret, that in a moment of such uncertainty

42:53

for the state of Israel, a

42:55

paralysis that would arise from early

42:58

elections, which Netanyahu's largest rival, Benny

43:00

Gantz, called for, that early elections

43:02

would create a state of political

43:04

uncertainty at a time when all

43:06

resources from Benjamin Netanyahu on down

43:08

do need to be focused on

43:11

countering Iran. Gantz has said

43:13

those would be so early, but not in the middle

43:16

of the war, essentially, but we'll see what happens and

43:19

how many wars exist, potentially, right,

43:21

in the coming months. This is so

43:23

on edge. I know

43:25

that in our own polling we

43:27

see that half of this country believes

43:29

the threat of terrorism will increase, not

43:32

just for Israel, but also for the

43:34

U.S., because of this ongoing Israeli war

43:36

with Hamas in Gaza. The

43:38

FBI director testified this week, saying

43:40

the number of investigations have escalated

43:43

since October 7th. These

43:45

are self-radicalized people. How

43:47

should Americans at home

43:49

understand this threat domestically?

43:52

Well, let's keep in mind, what happens overseas

43:55

often doesn't stay overseas. From

43:57

a counterterrorism perspective, I was in the room.

44:00

after October 7, I can tell you that

44:02

the administration has been deeply focused on really

44:04

ensuring two things. One, that

44:06

foreign terrorists don't seek to travel to the

44:09

homeland to inflict damage here. But

44:11

more importantly, we know, factually speaking, that

44:13

terrorist groups in Iran, who is the

44:15

largest state sponsor of terror in the

44:17

world, uses these kinds

44:20

of high-profile events like what we

44:22

saw last night as mass marketing

44:24

opportunities. Iran's a attack against

44:26

Israel. It's a mass marketing opportunity from

44:28

Iran and its proxies to try to

44:30

radicalize supporters. We know that

44:33

terrorist organizations have been using

44:35

the Israel-Khamas conflict to try

44:37

to inspire supporters and

44:39

operatives all around the world to

44:41

act, primarily against places of worship,

44:43

entities believed to be associated with

44:46

the state of Israel. And

44:48

that's why I don't believe that there's

44:50

a homeland security nexus to one unfolded

44:52

last night in the homeland at this

44:54

time, based on the sources that I've been speaking with.

44:57

However, out of an abundance of caution, the

45:00

federal government, state and local partners

45:02

are taking every step possible to ensure that

45:04

nothing reverberates here. We saw the Homeland Security

45:06

Advisor in the meeting with the president,

45:09

Secretary Blinken, Secretary Austin and others last

45:11

night. We have seen the New

45:13

York Police Department, LA Police Department and

45:15

others indicate that they are increasing patrols

45:18

around places of worship. And what

45:20

we need right now is for law

45:23

enforcement and intelligence partners to remain vigilant

45:25

and for members of the community to

45:27

speak up if they see anything suspicious,

45:29

because the biggest international terrorism threat facing

45:32

the homeland right now is

45:34

individuals inspired by what they're seeing overseas

45:36

to action. We

45:39

know, I mean, the director of national

45:41

intelligence has testified that the Israeli war

45:43

in Gaza will have a generational impact,

45:45

potentially on terrorism. And

45:48

we're seeing in our polling support

45:50

for Israel's war there

45:52

dropping. How

45:54

concerned are your former colleagues that

45:57

Israel is losing strategically the

45:59

fight and becoming more isolated. From

46:02

a counterterrorism perspective, it is a fact

46:04

that what is happening in Gaza is

46:06

being used again as a mass marketing

46:09

opportunity, not only because the suffering is

46:11

incredibly difficult for

46:13

anyone to watch. Hamas and other Iranian

46:15

proxies are using those images to try

46:18

to rally support against Israel, whether it

46:20

be here in the homeland or more

46:22

broadly across the world. I think the

46:24

biggest concern right now is ensuring that

46:26

Israel has what it needs to deter

46:28

Iran, not just today, but going forward.

46:30

And so when we think about what

46:32

Israel's next move is going to be, we

46:34

also have to think about what the international community

46:36

is going to do to ensure

46:38

that Iran loses the funding for

46:41

its ballistic and cruise missile program and

46:43

tries to take a step

46:45

back from funding terrorism around the world. At

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Stay focused. We'll see what that

47:58

international response is. is at the UN and

48:01

elsewhere. Sam, thank you very much for your analysis. We'll

48:03

be back in a moment. We're

48:05

back with the managing director of the International Monetary

48:07

Fund, Kristalina Georgieva.

48:09

I got it right this time.

48:12

I'm pausing. You'll be being beat.

48:14

Oil markets have been swinging because

48:16

of this instability in

48:19

the Middle East, escalation risk, the

48:21

threat to global shipping as well.

48:23

Can you gauge at this point

48:25

what the economic impact will be?

48:28

So far it has been somewhat

48:31

moderate. We have seen

48:33

on Friday when the

48:35

news potential strike from

48:37

Iran into Israel

48:39

came, oil prices jumped

48:41

by 1%. We

48:44

have seen so far the

48:46

impact of this conflict

48:49

primarily in the epicenter

48:51

affecting Israel and

48:53

in particular devastating Gaza

48:56

and West Bank, which

48:58

stillovers to the neighboring

49:00

countries. Even

49:03

the shipping distraction in the Red

49:05

Sea has not yet

49:08

led to a major impact. But

49:11

any impact, as small as it

49:14

might be, is not

49:17

desirable in an economy

49:19

with high uncertainty and

49:21

inflation still not being brought down

49:23

to target. Very simple. Oil prices

49:26

go up, inflation goes up.

49:29

So what can be done to

49:32

bring down uncertainty

49:34

is, of course, for

49:38

others, for those in politics, in the

49:40

military, from an economic

49:42

standpoint, the more

49:44

we reduce uncertainty, the better.

49:47

We have a lot of uncertainty right

49:49

now, one of them being the U.S.

49:52

Congress and funding for these conflicts. Congress

49:55

is looking at authorizing the Biden

49:57

administration to seize Russia's state

50:00

assets, potentially for use in

50:02

a negotiation or to rebuild Ukraine. What

50:05

do you think of that idea? This

50:08

is really for the jurisdictions that have authority

50:10

to take a decision to make what we

50:12

do. But it could have global impact. What

50:14

we do is we look at it and

50:16

then we assess what the impact might be.

50:20

And then of course it is a matter

50:22

of how would

50:24

that be received as

50:27

news across the world, countries

50:29

that are holding their reserves.

50:31

And let's remember today there are

50:33

$11 trillion

50:37

in reserves in countries

50:39

around the world. They would be looking

50:41

at that with some attention. So

50:44

what our position is,

50:48

when a decision is being taken, whatever

50:50

the decision is, please think

50:53

of the consequences and especially

50:55

the law of unintended consequences

50:57

and factor it in. What

51:00

you're saying there is that this could essentially

51:03

cause what? A flight of assets

51:05

out of the banking systems in

51:07

Europe in particular? We have not

51:09

seen the reaction to be of

51:11

debt magnitude. Our

51:14

point is very simple. We

51:16

have an integrated global economy, even

51:18

with the winds of fragmentation. Still,

51:21

countries are connected with each other.

51:23

So whatever decision is being taken,

51:26

take it with an eye of

51:29

action. The desired impact and

51:31

also of what might be unintended

51:34

consequence. We're in an election

51:36

year, as you know. Goldman Sachs

51:39

put out a report outlining potential

51:41

tariff increases as the most important

51:43

issue for the economic outlook if

51:45

President Trump were to be reelected.

51:47

He continues to float ideas of

51:49

tariffs anywhere from 10 to 60%

51:52

or upwards. How

51:55

would you gauge the impact and the risk

51:57

of doing that? reflect

52:00

on why we have seen

52:02

over the last decade a

52:04

backlash on globalization. We all

52:07

know an integrated world economy

52:10

lifts up growth prospects and

52:12

leads to improvements in standard of

52:15

living, but not for everyone. What

52:18

we have seen is that communities that

52:21

have been negatively impacted

52:23

by globalization have

52:27

not been offended, they have not been helped

52:29

to cope with it, are

52:31

the backbone of this

52:33

backlash that we are seeing today.

52:36

So my most important point is

52:39

trade is good, but

52:42

it is not necessarily good

52:45

for everyone and policies have

52:47

to reflect on that. We

52:50

have to make sure that the benefits are

52:53

more broadly shared in society.

52:56

Growth would add to inflation as

52:58

well. You agree. Of

53:01

course, let me just be very

53:03

clear. The reason

53:05

we are proponents of

53:07

an integrated world economy is

53:09

because it brings

53:12

costs down and it

53:14

increases the well-being of people around

53:16

the world. So we are on

53:19

the view that we should be

53:21

striving to have a

53:23

more integrated economy. Let

53:26

me say this, what we are seeing is

53:29

already trade patterns are shifting.

53:34

What is the impact? The impact is the

53:36

so-called connector countries play

53:39

a bigger role. So you

53:41

don't see a trade

53:43

from A to B, you see trade

53:45

going A to B to C to

53:47

D. So we are lengthening the supply

53:50

chains and that of course leads to

53:52

a high cost on consumers. And

53:54

as you said, not great for

53:56

inflation. You

53:58

have a lot of work ahead. of you in this

54:01

second term. You were just reelected to. Congratulations

54:03

on that. Thank you. Thank you, Margaret. And

54:05

thank you for joining us. We

54:07

will be right back. That's

54:10

going to be it for us today. Thank you all for

54:13

watching. Until next week, for Face

54:15

the Nation, I'm Margaret Banner. Today's

54:17

guests were National Security Council Spokesman John

54:19

Kirby, House Foreign Affairs Committee

54:22

Chair Republican Mike McCaul, Arizona

54:24

Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, former

54:26

commander of U.S. troops in the Middle

54:28

East for higher general Mike McKenzie, CBS

54:30

News National Security Contributor Samantha Vinograd,

54:33

and the Director of the International

54:35

Monetary Fund, Kristalina Georgieva.

54:39

The Executive Producer of Face the

54:41

Nation is Mary Hager. This broadcast

54:43

was directed by Shelley Schwartz. Face

54:46

the Nation originates in CBS

54:48

News in Washington. For

54:50

more Face the Nation, we're online

54:52

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55:01

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55:09

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