0:00

This is Extraordinary Lives, a

0:02

podcast from Ladbible where we speak to people

0:04

with a unique story to tell. I'm Ben

0:06

Powell-Jones and coming up in this episode...

0:08

So I'm now trying to sort of jump and I thought I ain't even

0:11

gonna get out of the way quick enough what I'm gonna do

0:13

and he's coming down to go like that in

0:17

slow motion it's going

0:19

I'm thinking oh he's gonna get me in the forehead

0:21

oh no all right then he's going down there's

0:23

like in the heart and I'm thinking oh he's gonna get

0:25

me I'm gonna get down in the heart and then it's going oh

0:28

no I'm gonna get in the butt I'm gonna be getting the butt

0:30

and I thought jump over the car Dave look I

0:32

don't know why I jumped so I tried to

0:34

jump and then as I went to jump up he went

0:37

and got me in the leg.

0:41

Hello

0:41

and welcome to this episode

0:43

of Extraordinary Lives the podcast from Ladbible.

0:46

I'm Ben Powell-Jones and in the studio today

0:48

we've got the larger than life Dave Courtney. Thanks

0:50

so much for being here Dave. My pleasure sir truly.

0:54

For anyone who isn't aware of who you are could you give

0:56

us a brief introduction?

0:57

No I'm not going to tell you. I

1:00

am Dave Courtney I come from South

1:02

London. I was propelled

1:05

into infamously

1:08

by really a documentary

1:10

that was done early on in the late 70s I think

1:12

or the early 80s called Burmagy Boy

1:16

which portrayed me as a

1:18

debt collector, car repossession,

1:21

rent a clump, get squatters out you

1:23

know an all-round for hire thug.

1:27

I was on the way to prison and it was a documentary

1:29

done to

1:32

they got permission from the Home Office

1:34

to film me in prison and

1:37

they done it to see if prison worked I was actually

1:39

I was on bow I was definitely going to prison

1:42

and they had they was going to follow me while I

1:44

was in prison what happened

1:46

when I come out whether my friends and family stayed

1:49

low or whether prison had worked and

1:51

the job at the time I was doing was I was a doorman

1:53

and I had a lot of doorman working for me so they

1:57

looked at it as a gang a firm and they

1:59

wanted to

1:59

happened when a gang boss went to prison and if everyone

2:02

stayed law and that was the format

2:05

of the documentary. Well

2:07

I actually happily

2:09

for me got found not guilty and before they

2:12

done the court case they filmed me doing all these dastardly

2:14

deeds to show how bad

2:17

I was before I went in and then

2:19

when I came out to see if prison

2:21

had worked well I got not guilty and that was the

2:23

end of the documentary so I had to make a documentary

2:25

just out of the horrible things I'd done in the beginning

2:28

and that propelled me into the naughty

2:31

boy world of stardom

2:33

so I'm infamous for

2:35

being a little bit of everything.

2:38

Okay a little bit of everything a

2:40

great way to describe it and I'm excited

2:43

to hear what that means so why

2:45

don't we go back to the beginning you know what

2:47

were you like as a kid what was growing up like for

2:50

you? Oh it was about that big. Okay.

2:53

Picked my nose, weed on the

2:55

seat. I was the

2:57

same as any other kid I'm genuinely

2:59

walking talking living proof that you can't blame

3:02

the parents. I lived in a nice area

3:04

a nice house I had a perfect mum and dad

3:06

they were Cub and Scout leaders you

3:08

know I had no reason whatsoever

3:11

to turn out

3:13

the way I did it's in your

3:15

genes yeah you are born naughty

3:18

make no mistake with that

3:20

you cannot put it down to a there

3:23

was no green areas to play

3:25

on my mum and dad I was a one parent family

3:28

you know they might have little

3:30

nudging influences to help you

3:32

go a certain way but you are born naughty

3:35

I'm afraid I'm proof of that. Did

3:38

you have siblings brothers or sisters? I

3:40

had one brother one sister they once

3:42

again living proof that I was the

3:44

odd one out you know I'm

3:47

quite close to my family you know I'm quite

3:49

close to my mum who's

3:51

still alive. Ninety

3:53

odd, lovely mum, and my sister I've got a

3:59

strange brother. at the moment.

4:02

But you were the one, would

4:05

it be fair to call you a black sheep? I was, oh, yeah,

4:07

yeah, yeah. It's a horrible word

4:09

for a nice thing. I was quite happy being the black sheep.

4:12

You know, I enjoyed life. My main ambition

4:16

from the minute I opened my eyes in the morning

4:18

till when I shut my eyes is to smile

4:20

and giggle and laugh and have

4:23

everyone around me under my little umbrella on

4:25

the same buzz as me. And I'm

4:28

afraid it was really naughtiness I

4:30

was looking at, you know, money-making things. I didn't

4:32

look at his crime. I didn't look at myself as

4:36

a professional criminal from the age of 10. You

4:38

know, I mean, I didn't look at it, but in reality, I

4:41

was. I most probably had

4:44

ADHD.

4:46

Yeah, and, you

4:49

know, once you've been to prison

4:52

and seen all the people, the different categories

4:54

of people that are in prison, most of

4:56

them people had ADHD or...

5:00

What, like ADHD

5:02

or? And autistic. Oh, right. Thank

5:05

you, thank you. God,

5:07

your brain's still working, even though you're looking at him. That's

5:09

good, Dave. It's pretty good. Well, not

5:11

bad. Well, thank you, John,

5:13

I'm a bit of a sneak, but I like that. So

5:16

I've

5:16

been to prison and I've

5:19

seen all the different categories of prisoners there and no one

5:21

actually understood autism or

5:24

ADHD

5:25

years and years and years ago. Isn't something that's

5:27

just been invented? It's always been there and there's an awful lot

5:29

of prisoners that the authorities would

5:31

call reoffenders. They've

5:33

actually just got ADHD or autism.

5:36

Yeah, and they are conditions

5:39

that you have to,

5:40

you have to get under control

5:43

by a certain age. Like no other

5:46

illness in the world, you have to get hold

5:48

of that by a certain age because up to that certain

5:50

age, 18 is classed as an

5:52

illness and bad behavior. And

5:55

after your 18th birthday, it's prisonable.

5:58

So you've got to start mending it before. for then, because

6:01

after that you're going to go to prison. Every time

6:03

you have a little attack of autism or ADHD, you're

6:06

going to prison for it. And you don't

6:08

get told off sent into another class, give another

6:10

tablet, right?

6:11

You're banged up and there it is. All the prisoners

6:13

are full of all these people with something that no one

6:15

actually knew existed. So they put

6:18

it under the label of, you know,

6:22

a reoffender. Yeah, okay. So

6:24

I'm actually a

6:26

patron of an autistic charity,

6:29

AIM. And I do all the speaks for

6:31

speaking for ADHD. So I'm a firm

6:33

believer in that age, half of the criminal

6:35

element. And I truly believe I had

6:37

it myself. And when

6:40

you say that you were naughty, you

6:42

were born naughty, what did naughtiness

6:44

look like at a young age? Naughtiness looked

6:46

like anything that was going to put a pan note in my

6:48

pocket, really without hurting anyone. And

6:51

whatever it was that made

6:52

everybody laugh and turned

6:54

me into center of attraction. And

6:56

because of my,

6:58

I hate to say this about looking

7:01

like a cocky. Yeah. But there

7:03

is such a thing as natural leader

7:05

material. There is a

7:07

natural soldiers. And each one

7:09

is the same importance to

7:11

each other. Natural leader needs a good soldier

7:14

and a good soldier needs a good leader. And

7:16

I had that.

7:17

And I had that among men. I didn't mind the buck

7:19

stuff in here. I'm not sure what few words when

7:21

I need to get myself into or

7:24

out of trouble. I can mend an awful

7:26

lot more things with my tongue than I can with

7:28

that. And have done for

7:30

a minute of years for bigger and better people

7:32

than me. So it propelled me into

7:35

a position

7:37

of importance being very good with my mouth,

7:40

really.

7:41

So let's look at the process

7:44

of growing up. Because by

7:46

the time the documentary was made that you mentioned earlier.

7:49

I was already well set in my way. Right. And

7:51

how old were you then when they made that documentary?

7:54

23, 24. Okay,

7:56

okay. I've already been in prison once for attempted

7:59

murder. for three years at 21. Okay,

8:02

so by the point that's made, you said that

8:05

in that you're seeing, you know, rent

8:07

a clump as you put it, which I mean, I see

8:09

rent a clump. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Get

8:12

a good idea for pay. Yeah, debt collection,

8:15

all the things. Car repossession. Car repossession, all

8:17

those things. Throwing squatters out. Throwing squatters out.

8:19

So what's the, how does that work?

8:21

Like how do you go from a 10-year-old

8:24

who's, you know, nicking the odd

8:25

quid here and there and making people laugh

8:28

and that sort of thing. What's your progression

8:30

into all those things that you've just described? Um,

8:34

well, I can't really

8:36

put my finger on one thing,

8:38

but my choice, as most

8:40

people do in my position now, you'll

8:43

find a

8:44

familiarity with their choice of

8:46

company was an awful lot older than them. Right.

8:49

Yeah, my choice of companions

8:52

were an awful lot older than them. And the reason they

8:54

put up with a silly little one like me is I was

8:56

funny. Mm. Yeah, I do it. I'll

8:58

get in. I'll go. And I was

9:00

good company. So, yeah,

9:05

I was gifted at making people laugh, I feel.

9:07

And I was also gifted when I was a young man

9:10

at being able to hold my hands up. I was pretty good at having

9:12

a fight, which falsely made

9:14

me think I'd be a good boxer. But I found out

9:16

very quickly that I wasn't. Oh, really?

9:20

Did I hear you? I don't want to talk about it. Okay. Right.

9:22

I don't want to talk about it. You

9:25

know, I'll flip over that part of my life. No. But

9:29

I think I heard you talk before about Lenny

9:32

McLean. Yeah. Did

9:34

you get in the ring with him at a very young age? Is that correct?

9:36

What?

9:37

You can get this in if you want. What a tosser

9:39

you are. Me? Why am I a tosser?

9:42

Yes, I did get in the ring with Lenny McLean. And

9:44

I would now have to bring this story up. I

9:47

mean, you were young, but the most I would have flitted round,

9:49

but I will have to bring this story up. I was

9:51

training to be boxing it. That's like, you are so funny. I'm

9:54

going to say, you are closer. It's a good story.

9:56

Yeah, of course, of course, of course. Anyway, thank you.

9:59

I was actually training at the time boxing, where

10:02

I got all of my, most of my diamond from. And

10:05

I was training on Sunday morning up at the Thompson Beckett

10:07

in the Elkhart Road. Lenny McLean, you

10:10

know, all how, the best

10:12

walking, talking nightclub door

10:14

fighter I have ever seen in my

10:17

life, that you could never

10:19

replicate, Nick had never been able to one like

10:21

that, came into the ring and his sparring

10:23

partner didn't turn up when he was training.

10:26

He's a giant of a man, giant of a man. You

10:28

know, I had the best kit. It

10:31

was about about it. And

10:35

he was sparring, he went, well, first you spar

10:37

with me then.

10:39

And no one said anything. And I thought, wow,

10:42

it can't really hurt me, hurt

10:44

me, because it's only sparring. Yeah, that was my

10:47

mental thinking. Yeah, a little bit wrong. And

10:51

I could do three rounds

10:53

with Lenny McLean. I'll hold that close to

10:55

my heart for the rest of my life. I mean, I've

10:58

got in the ring, even

11:00

if he hit me, I'm glad he hit me. I'll

11:03

put magic mark around the bot. You know what

11:05

I mean? It was a hard man with such a fearsome reputation

11:13

the whole country knew of,

11:16

which there isn't anyone else like

11:18

that anymore. There isn't any dormant in England

11:21

that everyone in England knows. And

11:23

is in fear of their set. There isn't anyone.

11:27

Times have changed. I said,

11:29

I'll have a spar with you then. He went, oh, you got someone

11:31

to sit on your shoulders then. I

11:33

used to pick up that. How old were you at this point?

11:36

Nine.

11:37

I

11:39

suppose I'm about. I did believe you. I

11:41

suppose I'm about 24, something like that.

11:45

It's still a baby. I didn't

11:48

have sideburns yet. I mean, he was a proper

11:50

man. Sideburns, the poor lot, right?

11:53

So, you

11:54

know, fine. Fine. I got

11:56

in the ring with him and I wasn't ever so frightened because

11:59

it's spar. He was firing. You

12:01

know, there's all people skipping and round the

12:03

boxing ring. And he got in looking pretty

12:06

casual. And,

12:08

you

12:09

know, there's different styles of fighting. Like

12:11

there's different styles of football, like the long ball game

12:13

or the dribbling. You know, there's

12:16

a Nigel Ben that didn't mind getting it as

12:18

long as he got his one in. There's the U banks

12:20

that

12:21

wanted to do it, but didn't actually want to get it yourself.

12:23

There's the Bruce Lee that spin round to

12:25

bury his ankle in your ear hole. The Mick

12:28

Matt Manis is a grapple you up. You know, the

12:30

football are only going to rip his shell off and dive

12:32

into 500 blows. Wah! You

12:35

know, there's all different ones in there. Lenny McLean.

12:37

So Lenny McLean went ding,

12:39

ding. And just before

12:41

we both moved, this is the God's honest truth.

12:44

He just went, wah! And

12:50

I just think if I had

12:52

any shit in me, it would have been

12:55

on the... I could not move.

12:57

I just instantly, big bubbles of sweat

13:00

come on instantly. My head was saying

13:02

to my legs, run, run, get

13:04

out of here. My legs were going, mm-mm, you

13:06

fuck on the fuck. I just stood there

13:09

looking at this thing and he didn't

13:11

run across the ring. So he just walked with big steps

13:13

like a monster.

13:14

Wah! And

13:17

swung his arm round. Wah, that's why.

13:20

And I just thought, fuck, he was like a hay

13:22

man. Like, I just couldn't get my

13:24

head round it, making all these noises

13:26

and spitting the veins. I

13:29

just went like that, making

13:31

fucking... I told you it was all to the good. And

13:33

he just swung his big right hand, that hand

13:35

did, that hand. That hand punched

13:37

me in the mouth and I woke up with fucking Spanish

13:39

sauce. So

13:42

I did last, I did...

13:45

Thank you for making me bring this up. I did

13:47

actually last 17 seconds with Lenny McLean,

13:50

but 10 of them was going one. LAUGHTER

13:55

And I thought, I'm going to knock this

13:57

box in on the edge.

14:00

I'll retire from the fight

14:02

game. Fair enough. Well, you know, you got in a ring

14:04

with Lenny McLean. It's still an accolade.

14:06

Not many people would say that. And I

14:09

didn't intend to say that either. Well,

14:12

how did that... Because he was famous for being

14:14

a dorman, right? Yeah. Were

14:16

you a dorman at that point? I was a dorman at that time.

14:19

At that time, dorman were a completely different thing than

14:21

anyone. Now, please believe me. Dorman

14:23

was someone that, if he lost a fight

14:26

that night, the governor sacked him and

14:28

got a better fighter.

14:30

Nowadays, you know,

14:33

if you hit somebody back, you're

14:35

actually sacked. They've got your name addressed, blood

14:37

group, photograph, and the governor has to bring you to the police station

14:39

and you're sacked. And you've got 25 dormans

14:42

working one club. When I worked the Hippodrome, there

14:45

was

14:46

five dormans and they had 2,000 people

14:48

in it. You had three on the front, one

14:50

inside upstairs with his 1,000, and

14:53

one downstairs on his own with his 1,000. No

14:55

walkie talkies going, trouble the action. Number

14:58

five needs some assistance. He says, none

15:00

of that. You went, help me! And done

15:03

your thing, right? So back then

15:05

was a job, was a lot of it just fighting? It

15:07

was all fighting. It was

15:09

all fighting. There was ball learning and so forth.

15:12

20,000 newcasts who come to London to play Chelsea,

15:15

20,000 men united

15:16

come to London last night, 20,000 Liverpool

15:18

blokes come down to play

15:21

Crystal Palace, and only half of them went home

15:23

on a Saturday night. So, I mean, that's the square.

15:26

There's 80,000 northerners wanting to have a

15:28

fight and

15:30

there's you three sitting there with both

15:32

eyes on going, oh, no.

15:35

You know, for the whole football. So

15:38

you had to be good at

15:40

it and he become very good at it. And

15:42

the reason there will never ever be another Lenny

15:44

McLean. The reason there can't

15:47

be is fighting you to some of this, any other

15:49

sport in the world. You can't

15:51

get good at something unless you do it

15:53

a lot.

15:54

And Lenny McLean had four or five fights

15:57

a night, five nights a

15:59

week. for 25 years. So

16:02

by the time when you bumped into your mouthpist

16:04

on the way out of a club on the way home, it ate

16:07

eight of us.

16:08

Yeah, you can't get good at something. If you hit somebody

16:11

back now once, you get sacked. So

16:13

out of, you're supposed to be good at something

16:15

you're not allowed to do.

16:17

Yeah, so you'll never ever, I'm sorry to all the

16:19

doorman out there now, big respect and all

16:21

that. Yeah, but you'll never ever be

16:24

allowed to be that good. Yeah,

16:27

you know, they can be that big. Yeah, they weren't, bodybuilding

16:30

weren't such a big thing when I was a young

16:32

man, but there were some big ones around. Do you understand

16:34

what I mean? So Dave, you started off working

16:38

the doors in your 20s and

16:40

you've just explained how back then, I guess before

16:42

CCTV and the rules they have now, a

16:45

lot of it was involved with violence. Were

16:47

you not intimidated by that?

16:49

No, not that I'm

16:51

incredibly brave, but people are built

16:54

different. Some people can go mountain climbing

16:56

and not get frightened. Some people can drive 500 mile

16:59

an hour on a motorbike and bend

17:02

up, they're not frightened. Other people can have

17:04

a fight and they're not frightened. And once you've had a few items

17:07

and realized that you can get a good kick

17:09

in and in two weeks, you're back to normal.

17:12

You know, you're not frightened of it no more. People who haven't,

17:15

who hasn't done it much

17:17

would be frightened of it. Like the very first time someone

17:19

jumps out and you're in points of gun at you, it's

17:21

terrifying. But if you're in a world where

17:24

that happens quite a lot, you're gonna

17:26

fall after the eighth time, you're actually going,

17:29

what? You know what I mean? I've got some funny

17:31

stories where they've pulled out guns at me, I've also got

17:33

some that are not funny because I've got f***ing holes in my leg,

17:36

but I've got some very funny stuff, you know?

17:38

No, I wasn't, I wasn't intimidated

17:41

by the violence. It actually, not

17:43

I

17:44

enjoyed the violence, it brought out

17:47

another part of leadership for me. When

17:49

everyone else started getting into the panic mode, I

17:51

turned into Dave Cawton, I always thought it

17:53

was like, I was almost

17:55

sitting there getting filmed, yeah? It

17:57

brought out a, as

17:59

everyone.

17:59

and I was melted if someone came in the room, it

18:02

helped me grow into this is my bit. Yeah.

18:04

And we're not, I suspect this might

18:06

be a stupid question, but did you have, we're

18:09

not,

18:09

did you feel any guilt about hurting people or

18:11

any worries about

18:13

hurting people that you were fighting with? No, I didn't

18:15

feel any guilt with the, with

18:17

the violence bit because in my heart,

18:19

I had my Robin Hood on and

18:21

I never bullied or picked on

18:24

or started anything with anyone,

18:27

ever. I'm the one in charge and I

18:29

take that one on board very

18:33

seriously, you know, I could never have a pop at any

18:35

of my dorm and for getting carried away with their

18:37

little selves and being a little bit bullish if

18:39

I was that way myself,

18:41

right? I sacrificed the pleasure of being

18:43

able to walk around like that because I

18:45

wanted to tell other people up for it. I

18:48

sacrificed me being

18:50

on Charlie and having a really good time, you know,

18:53

because it made you into a,

18:55

and I've had a lot of

18:57

people around me that I looked at like that, but that little

19:00

packet there turned them into something that, you

19:02

know, so I've had to forfeit and I've sacrificed

19:05

to be in charge. And

19:07

I took it on board very, very seriously and I've never

19:09

felt guilt

19:11

of whatever I've had to do. Yeah, I've

19:13

never felt guilt. I have been in a million

19:15

positions where,

19:17

no, no, I'm lying. I've seen

19:19

a million positions where they thought they'd

19:22

done enough to someone. And

19:24

as soon as they've got up, this person got up and stabbed

19:26

them in the back more or less or jumped something, carried on

19:28

doing something. So when I've had a fight, I've

19:31

made sure they was definitely finished. The

19:33

fact that they have decided to stop hitting

19:35

me doesn't necessarily mean I've decided to

19:37

stop hitting them. So my reputation

19:41

might be that I have been a little bit

19:45

seriously over

19:48

the top of sometimes, but

19:50

I would rather you say that about me than come

19:52

and visit me in hospital.

19:54

Yeah. You know,

19:57

I'm not a great fan of carrying knives.

19:59

I'm not,

20:01

I believe in you are,

20:04

you must be prepared to do the

20:06

prison sentence that your choice of

20:08

weapon carries.

20:10

And if you decide to carry a knife with

20:12

you 24 hours a day and

20:14

it turns habitual, it turns into a habit,

20:17

you can halfway go somewhere, forgot you've got your knife

20:19

and then go home to get it because you just can't

20:21

do it without it.

20:24

And a knife

20:26

means something, if you haven't stabbed anybody before,

20:28

please believe me, if you're gonna start cheating

20:31

and use a weapon anyway, just one stab doesn't

20:33

stop anyone. If you're gonna use a tool, you

20:35

need someone to go, bam, and it all stops and you

20:38

win. That's what you need, yeah? And

20:40

the knuckle duster, I'm afraid, is the only

20:42

thing that does that.

20:44

If you wanna pull out a knife and save your life

20:46

and do that to someone, they

20:48

don't stop. They still carry on running forward, it

20:50

feels like a half decent punch. That's

20:52

what a knife does. So to stop them, you have

20:54

to do that. And then when

20:56

you go to court for murder and you say, it was just self

20:59

defense, you still didn't wanna do nothing.

21:01

And I say, well, you stabbed him 13 times. As

21:03

that self defense, it doesn't stop. I'm

21:05

afraid knuckle duster is the only thing

21:07

that stops them instantly. And

21:09

you don't go to prison for years and years for it.

21:12

Now that. Right, just for any audio

21:14

listeners, Dave's just produced a diamond

21:16

encrusted knuckle duster. He's a diamond encrusted

21:18

knuckle duster. Wow, okay. And

21:21

putting it on was the very first time I had a premature

21:23

ejaculation. Okay. Sorry

21:25

about that, but it's the truth. It's a more important

21:27

invention than the wheel, fire, and

21:30

electricity for someone that's out there having to carry

21:32

a tool to work, like policemen,

21:34

prison officers, doorman, soldiers.

21:37

There was an awful lot of people out there that do carry something

21:40

to work. And that stops

21:42

the fight instantly. You've only got

21:44

to get one shot going that way.

21:46

And if it hits them, right,

21:48

they will catch them on the arm, it'll break their

21:50

arm. If you hit them on the chest, it'll break their ribs. Hit them round the

21:52

ear, they drop on the floor. And I would rather

21:55

take the risk, if it's in 18 months every time

21:57

I have a fight, than risk it in 25 years.

21:59

And I was involved in a world where

22:02

fighting was something I had to do two or three times

22:04

a night, whether I wanted to or not.

22:07

It wasn't up to me. I'm saying, sorry, you

22:09

can't come in without,

22:10

you know, you've got trainers on and it's nine

22:13

of you and you've got to come in with girlfriends. You can't come

22:15

in. And if they've decided they're coming in, you had to

22:17

have a fight on the door.

22:19

All right, then it went into a different

22:21

world where the ease and all that came

22:23

into it. So the doorman was actually running the drug

22:26

scene in most clubs. Right.

22:28

And taking over your door

22:31

was worth 10 grand a night to some other

22:33

little firm. So then you had to start fighting seriously,

22:36

employ more doorman, have one in there with

22:38

a thing. Oh, right. So you'd have like

22:40

rival doorman having basically wars

22:42

over. Of course, yeah, whoever was running the door in that

22:44

club sold the pills in that club. If

22:47

that club had a thousand people in

22:49

it, you were selling 2000 pills in there

22:51

at 20 pounds each. Like

22:53

that's worth kidding someone for. That's thousand

22:56

doorman only on under a pound a night

22:58

when you first started.

22:59

If you was now letting certain

23:01

dealers in there sell and then throwing out every

23:04

other one, so they sell more, you

23:06

could get a little 500 pound bonuses each, every

23:08

single night. Or you could be buying

23:10

them and putting your own dealers in

23:12

and earning thousands of pounds a night

23:15

and making sure that the police realized that you

23:18

was good doorman because you were throwing

23:20

out every other dealer.

23:22

So you was looking like you was doing your job correctly.

23:24

So whoever was running that door then, if

23:27

you decided to go in and smash out

23:29

of all them doorman and now you're the new doorman,

23:32

you was earning the 10, 15 grand a night and

23:34

the clubs open four nights a week. And

23:36

how do you become, cause I'm

23:39

all right in thinking you were, I don't know what the

23:41

description is, but you ran like a group

23:43

of doorman didn't you? I ran most of the doorman in London

23:45

at one stage. Right. So how do you get to that

23:47

position? Like did you start as a doorman

23:50

yourself? I started as a doorman myself and then I

23:52

started working

23:52

for other doorman. So you meet, you know,

23:54

if you're a foot bleeder, you know, all the other foot blers.

23:56

If you're a prostitute, you know, I mean in prostitutes, you've

23:58

got a body building. I mean.

23:59

any bodybuilders, if you're an aeronautics,

24:02

you're a millionaire aeronautics. And I was a doorman

24:04

for a long time, so I knew

24:06

a million doorman.

24:08

I'm also, my lady was

24:10

Jamaican, so

24:14

half or most of my friends were

24:17

black guys. And so, I mean, I got myself London

24:20

out there, more than naturally, I've got

24:22

my own mixed race children, so that

24:24

was a real bonus of

24:26

me. I had another

24:28

million odd guys prepared to work for

24:30

me, as a little white London skinhead,

24:33

that they weren't everyone else. Right, I see.

24:35

I had an instant

24:38

couple of hundred more on my side, or a couple

24:40

of thousand more on my side up and down the country than

24:42

everyone else did. Everyone needs

24:45

someone to be in charge, and being involved

24:47

in my firm, it made your firm bigger,

24:50

I could now get an awful lot of things done up and

24:52

down the country by not having to go myself, and

24:54

I could get a lot of things done up and down the

24:56

country without them coming down here. What I actually

24:59

became was a job center

25:02

for very naughty men up

25:04

and down the country.

25:05

You might not, you know, doorman, or

25:08

only doorman, Thursday, Friday

25:11

night, Sunday mornings and all that, rest

25:13

of the week they're unemployed, they're just sitting in a gym

25:15

going, ahh, so

25:18

if you needed anything done, you had the normal

25:21

layman in the street might not know where to get

25:23

someone to bash up his daughter's boyfriend, that's

25:25

just beat her up, throw your next door neighbor out, get

25:28

a squatter out, repossess a car, they

25:30

might not know that, but you know, that doorman

25:32

knows a load of hard nuts like that, so

25:35

I became a job center for a million other

25:37

naughty men up and down the country. That

25:40

is what propelled me into the importance

25:42

of what they now say is celebrity

25:45

gangster.

25:47

Yeah, they brought me to the attention of Ronnie and Reggie

25:49

Craig that then wanted to see me because I had

25:51

a million geezers working for me. So you

25:53

started out, was it, at the beginning was

25:55

it just doll work, or

25:57

was it always, it was just doll work.

25:59

And petty crime. Okay, so

26:02

what would the petty crime have been? Well, petty crime

26:04

would be all

26:06

and everything, right? You might not, you know, there's

26:08

crimes that,

26:09

most of the crimes you might plan to do, but

26:12

if you're that way inclined,

26:15

you're an opportunist,

26:17

and your way of handling

26:20

situations in your life are a lot different

26:22

than the normal person. You know, a banker might

26:25

not do the same to his next door neighbor that keeps

26:27

having parties as a doorman.

26:30

A banker might call the police, or a doorman will get

26:32

his mates and go in there and kick the living daylights out

26:34

and we'll smash his stereo up. My job was

26:36

debt collecting, which was very easy

26:38

for me for once again to put my robin or that

26:40

on. Yeah, he owed him

26:43

half a million quid, right? And

26:45

I didn't care what methods I used to go in there

26:47

and get it back. He was still the bad guy. I weren't

26:49

robbing him. I wasn't just running in there and nicking half

26:51

a million quid off him. He would actually

26:53

say I was the devil himself, and someone else when he got

26:56

his money back would call me God.

26:58

Were they the amount you'd be working with? I'd be working

27:00

for millions. Really? Millions.

27:03

And before I became infamous

27:05

and got on telly, it was as easy as this. You could

27:07

just kick someone's front door down and

27:09

you run in and do whatever you had to do, which then

27:12

became illegal by the police

27:14

to do what you had to do to get the money back. And

27:17

if I've nicked half a million pound off someone or

27:19

gone bankrupt and just changed the name on

27:21

the top and you would

27:24

have to go to some lengths to make me give you

27:26

back half a million quid, mate. You'd

27:28

have to cut my leg off. I'd get a gold wheel if I

27:30

had half a million quid. But then

27:33

once I became infamous on the crater

27:35

in the funeral, I

27:38

did that job truly, thinking

27:40

it was gonna propel me into some working

27:45

security icon genius.

27:47

I had the best jobs in the world. It was gonna be viewed

27:50

and publicized to everyone in the world. And

27:53

I took it on board that I had to go to 150

27:55

of the tastiest men I knew.

27:59

out of my whole

28:01

filofax.

28:02

And I'm known as the Yellow Pages of the underworld.

28:05

That's what it is. My head is full of numbers, not crimes.

28:08

And I've got Mr. Glasgow, Mr. Edinburgh,

28:10

Mr. Manchester, Mr. Newcastle, Mr.

28:13

Leeds, Mr. Liverpool. I had affirmed

28:15

that, 150 men. Was this for

28:17

security at the... Security for running Crays funeral,

28:19

yeah. How did that come about? How were you asked to do it?

28:22

Well, by the time he died, I was a good

28:25

friend of both of them. Okay, okay. Is it

28:27

all right? I was their legs and arms while I was in there for their last 15,

28:30

20 years of their life. Yeah, they got in touch with me and

28:32

I went down to see them. For

28:35

a load of different reasons. I was going out of a

28:37

girl that was an identical

28:39

twin. They were rappers. They made

28:41

a song called, They Took the Rap About

28:43

the Cray Twins. And it was done

28:45

by a set of twins. And they led the Cray

28:47

Twin march through London. And

28:50

I went down there to sort out contracts. So

28:52

we were money out of this record. They

28:55

wanted to know who was doing what in London

28:58

with this biggest firm that there was. And

29:01

I was easily impressed. And a young man being

29:05

associated with the Cray Twins and the Richardsons

29:08

and all that was

29:10

very, very beneficial to me. And was it...

29:13

So obviously at the point you met them, they were massively

29:16

famous. They were massively famous, but they was in prison.

29:18

But were they intimidating to meet?

29:21

Intimidating to meet, no. Their reputation

29:23

was fantastic. If anyone

29:25

had ever met them when they was in prison, I'm

29:28

afraid their intimidating was the last... Hold on, I'm

29:30

gonna rewind that.

29:32

Ronnie would have been intimidating

29:34

because he was mad.

29:36

The thing that really, really affected me with

29:38

Ronnie weren't the things he said and all that, which was

29:40

quite unique as well. He never ever blinked.

29:43

Wow.

29:44

Because he'd had 30 years in prison. And for

29:46

the first 20 years of his prison, they

29:48

left the light on all the time in his cell with

29:51

fluorescent lights. When they first come out, they weren't as

29:54

eyeball friendly as they are now. So he'd had

29:56

fluorescent lights. So he would talk to you

29:58

constantly. that hello

30:01

David have you

30:03

bought something for me to eat would

30:05

you go to the canteen and

30:08

buy me some things God it's

30:10

nice to see you you know and

30:12

you never ever blinked and that used to make you go

30:14

yeah

30:15

well

30:19

a lot of people say you know Ronnie was

30:21

mad and you know when you look back at that what

30:24

what do you think that was like do you think he actually

30:26

had something yeah there was something definitely wrong

30:28

with you it was a bonafide clarified

30:31

stamped paranoid schizophrenic

30:33

right and he was in charge of the firm so it was

30:35

only ever going down downhill you know I mean

30:37

it was ready was ready

30:40

was more of a businessman the more happy

30:44

go lucky friendly

30:48

fella you know I mean you know you know

30:51

their sexuality has got nothing to do with it

30:53

whatsoever some of the tastiest my violent

30:56

scary men I know are actually gay but

30:58

they were both full on gay

31:00

from right from the start

31:04

Roddy would get you up if anyone

31:06

said nothing you know was more open with it

31:09

I ended up shooting something in the head because he

31:11

called him gay Reggie didn't tell anyone about

31:13

it and

31:14

married somebody and didn't fuck

31:16

her for a year so she killed herself I mean

31:19

and

31:21

now I'm not making these things up come on this program

31:23

and so things that were wrong or I'd end up an old in

31:25

me I'm telling you how it was yeah

31:30

they run their little bit of East London when

31:32

it was

31:35

when you know and run it with an iron

31:37

fist and done it really well and went for

31:39

the glamour as I did yeah

31:41

got very very famous but there's an awful lot of other

31:43

naughty affirms in London than the crater in

31:45

some afraid yeah there was Freddie Foreman and

31:47

the Richardson's on this side of the water on

31:49

the other side of the water

31:51

yeah there was the Nash's over here in

31:53

in you

31:54

know there was an awful lot of

31:57

other families that were just as notorious

32:01

or as naughty as them, but

32:04

didn't do the, I don't really

32:06

wanna be on the telly. They didn't wait to get in

32:08

the newspapers. I mean, they couldn't. And

32:11

was it when you're saying there was lots of these firms all

32:13

over the place in London, would

32:15

they, what was the relationships like?

32:17

Were they warring or were they? Sometimes good,

32:19

sometimes bad. It was a bit volatile. I

32:21

mean, they'd just come out of a war. There was

32:23

beautiful criminal morals among the British

32:26

criminal fraternity. It was almost

32:29

romantic then. You

32:31

know, we've just come out of a war. Everyone went loose

32:34

lips, sink ships, walls, their ears. One

32:36

spy is more dangerous than 10,000 men. So

32:39

if you was a policeman at the time, trying

32:41

to get somebody to cross somebody up was

32:43

hard work because the whole world had grown

32:45

up with them morals. You

32:47

know what I mean? You could leave your front door with a key hanging

32:49

on a bit of string through the letterbox.

32:52

You know, if you would have said to someone then,

32:54

there's gonna be a program on telly in 25

32:57

years time where they're going just for grasses

32:59

to say, and if you see this man, just

33:01

bring us up. And we put his face on telly

33:04

and we send you some money. Oh, and if you see

33:06

this man as well, you know, we've

33:08

had two phone calls. If you told me there'd be a program

33:11

like that and a grass line for anyone,

33:14

anyone you know, car tax

33:17

or anyone's working and not were claiming

33:19

anyone's got gun in their ass when they're themselves drugs,

33:22

every time you're at the newspaper, there's a grass line for somebody

33:24

else.

33:24

What were the kind of clubs that you and

33:26

your firm? Yeah,

33:28

all the big UK ones. All the big UK ones,

33:31

yeah, Minstree, no, I don't know,

33:33

so did an awful lot of other doorman

33:36

to him in the end, but my doorman was ended

33:38

up, I fenced them out to people and they ended up

33:40

working everywhere, every main club in

33:43

definitely London and up and down Great Britain, all

33:45

the festivals or the football, you

33:47

know, as soon as the ease came in, a club that

33:50

normally would have six doorman had 26.

33:53

Right.

33:54

And what, like just going

33:57

into some of the details of it, you know, like what

33:59

was some of the... more dangerous clubs

34:01

and what were some of the most dangerous

34:04

things that could possibly happen? Is it a fight

34:06

as far as it went or were there possible shootings

34:08

on evening stars? No, no, no. There

34:11

was two sides to it.

34:14

There was the one that was on show

34:16

in the nightclub itself, the

34:18

little show of force and whatever

34:20

was happening and that. And a lot of people

34:23

that drive by, I suppose, is the worst you

34:25

would actually get. And then there was a clever people

34:27

that mended it out of a club hours.

34:30

No owner wanted the nightclub

34:33

fights and deaths and step ins and even

34:36

if the Dormand won the confrontation, the police

34:38

knew about it. They didn't need that. So it'd be

34:40

better to find out who's who. Men

34:42

were silly enough to actually go out firm handed

34:45

and bring out everyone they actually had on their

34:47

firm. So you knew all they all were. You

34:49

had all the registration numbers of their cars.

34:51

And if you were a clever you would go

34:53

around the men that in their house at

34:56

seven in the morning. Oh, so when you

34:58

say on the right. Okay. Headboard.

35:01

Why they lying there in bed with three of you in a balaclava

35:03

that normally changes the game. Right.

35:05

Yeah. Listen, listen,

35:08

shut up, love. Shut up.

35:10

I'm talking to you about you sending the gear at sharp.

35:13

I'm talking to you about sending the gear. Yeah. Listen

35:15

to me. That's normally a game

35:17

changer. Instead of running past

35:20

someone nightclub and taking a shot at the

35:22

window and driving off. Right. Please.

35:24

And when you say taking a shot there were guns

35:26

prevalent. Guns were yeah.

35:28

They you're actually

35:31

fighting for the for the domination of the drug

35:33

selling in that club, which might end up being sometimes 50

35:36

to a hundred grand a week. So

35:39

I'm afraid that the fighting you had to do is no longer

35:41

knuckle dusters. And if you

35:43

have 10 Dormans instead of five or

35:46

nine, you're fighting for thousands

35:48

and thousands and thousands of pounds. I'm afraid

35:51

up goes the level of violence and that is a

35:53

part of a tool of your trade where I used to be. I'd

35:56

have a knuckle duster on me. I know I have to employ

35:58

someone to walk around and carry

35:59

I don't. So you

36:02

never carried guns? Next

36:05

question? Of course

36:07

I have. Yeah. I'm

36:10

in charge, I don't have to. He does. Well

36:14

I've got you. Okay. Yeah. Were there

36:16

any times where you thought

36:19

you were in... Many times. I've got holes

36:21

in me, mate. So you've been shot? I've got holes

36:23

in my... Can you tell us about that? What happened?

36:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was... I hate

36:28

this. I was standing outside a nightclub and

36:30

the geezer pulled up on the driveway. It's

36:32

shooting someone very hard. You think it's quite

36:34

easy, you've only got to aim it, and you'll

36:37

get it more or less. A whole person, you think,

36:39

I ain't going to miss that from 24. But you

36:41

do. You do.

36:43

Especially if they're running and moving about, you

36:45

know.

36:46

And someone went, Dave,

36:49

Dave Courtney in the yellow escort, Mexico

36:52

with a black one roof. And I was too far away

36:54

to get, but I went,

36:56

yeah. And

36:58

I walked down, I don't.

37:01

I don't.

37:03

I walked right up to the window. And

37:05

the geezer that was going to shoot me. Oh, wow. That's

37:09

exactly what I'm for.

37:11

So he just called you over? Yeah,

37:13

yeah, yeah, yeah. And as I was

37:15

bending down to see his face, I

37:20

see him pull the gun up. And then when anything like life

37:23

threatening comes into play,

37:25

for some reason, everything

37:27

goes into slow motion. So

37:30

I'm going to explain something to you now. It's going to take

37:32

me about five minutes, which happened as quick

37:34

as this. As soon as I looked and went and I was close enough,

37:37

he went, I shot him in the leg.

37:40

That's how quick it was.

37:42

In my head, as I come to a window and

37:44

start bending down to have a look, I saw it, and

37:46

he was bringing it up. And I thought, oh, no.

37:49

So I'm now trying to sort of jump, and I thought, I

37:51

ain't even going to get out of the way quick enough. What

37:53

am I going to do? And these cases coming

37:55

down to go right there,

37:57

in slow motion, it's going...

37:59

I'm thinking, oh, he's going to get me in the fard. Oh,

38:02

no. Well, then he's going down and start

38:04

in the heart. And I'm thinking, oh, he's going to get me. I'm

38:06

going to get done in the heart. And then he's going, oh, no,

38:08

I'm going to get in the... I'm going to be getting the... And

38:11

then I thought, jump over the card, hey. I've

38:13

done a while. Jump. Try

38:15

to jump. And then as I went to jump up, he

38:17

went... Got me in the leg. And

38:19

what it felt like, nothing like on telly

38:21

where you go. I'm only slowing

38:23

you down, man. You go, oh, he's nothing

38:25

like that. It's not like that.

38:28

It felt like someone had

38:31

come up behind me with a big sledgehammer and

38:33

went... On

38:35

my ankle. Because it hit my ankle

38:37

and it turned my ankle right up in here, upside

38:40

down. And I came down and landed on my

38:42

face. And

38:45

I was unconscious there for a minute until the ambulance

38:47

pulled right up beside my head. And

38:49

they've got their

38:51

bones right underneath the actual thing.

38:53

And right when it pulled up beside me, it went... Doo-doo!

38:57

That! He just broke me out. Well...

39:01

Well... You know?

39:03

And so he intentionally

39:06

shot you in... He intentionally killed me, no. So

39:09

why do that? Why was that? It's

39:11

because his boss

39:14

was...

39:17

Gonna have a lot of trouble with my boss. And

39:21

before he had to go with my boss, he had to get rid

39:23

of me. As I would have done

39:25

anything I was told or paid to do when

39:28

I was on the up and up. Yeah. See.

39:30

And if... And you know, it's all down to... It's

39:32

not who's the hardest or the toughest anymore. And that's

39:35

really not it.

39:37

It's who's got the numbers in the phone. Right.

39:40

And that really is what it's all about. Not the

39:42

biggest gadget now.

39:43

None of that.

39:45

All down to that.

39:47

I'm a dangerous man. I don't care. This is most of

39:49

the cockiest thing I'll say to you. I

39:51

don't care

39:52

what bit of trouble I mean, what

39:55

country I'm in, or whoever

39:57

it's against.

39:59

If you...

39:59

let me get to my phone,

40:02

I will you, right?

40:06

That's true. If not me, not I'm the

40:08

toughest, not nothing to do with that. And there's people

40:10

out there with my name in their phone.

40:12

All right. And if you was in trouble, you could bring me.

40:14

And if I couldn't do it, I could bring him. And if he can't

40:17

do it, he gets them. I

40:19

said, it's not what you can do that minute and

40:22

it's what you can get.

40:24

And when you- And I'm not, that's

40:27

what that was about. This man who was gonna

40:29

get it could get me. So before they got him,

40:31

they made sure I was out of the game. Not dead,

40:33

we're gonna drive by killing,

40:35

you know, actually killing someone. A murder hunt

40:38

is horrifying. If you've ever been involved

40:40

in one, it goes on for months. They

40:43

interview you, your school teacher,

40:45

who you fell out with, an infant, your next door,

40:48

and who you rung three years

40:50

ago. Why did you, it's a, you

40:52

know, I think, I think murder is

40:54

the highest rate of,

40:58

captures of any other crime in

41:00

the world. I meant they catch something like 97% of every

41:02

murder. I

41:04

don't think I'm far wrong there. It might be 95%

41:06

of every murder there is. Everything

41:09

else is down in the 18, 21% of murder. So

41:15

people have now learned that you don't murder.

41:17

This has come all the way from Eastern

41:19

Bloc people. What we've learned from them is you

41:22

do not leave a body to be found for murder.

41:25

People just go on the missing persons list.

41:28

And if you'd like to go and do your maps or

41:30

get your researchers to overlook, the

41:32

missing persons list is right

41:34

up there.

41:37

Murders might be going above or a little

41:39

bit more than last month and all that. But on the

41:41

missing persons list, which don't even make the local

41:44

paper, so and so didn't come home

41:46

last night. And they were fined

41:48

when they're doing the investigating. So many reasons

41:51

he shouldn't have come home. He was on drugs, he was hanging around

41:53

with him. He had another bird. No

41:55

one's even looking. Now to go and pay

41:57

someone to get to murder someone. There's a lot of money when

41:59

I was young.

41:59

and of course you're 15, 20 G

42:02

to go and get someone shot. And they left the body

42:04

there.

42:05

All right, now, of course you're

42:07

seven G to go and have someone took

42:09

away and never ever seen again. You

42:11

know, there's a whole different set of people here doing that work.

42:14

So that's how you do it. There is

42:16

no murder on.

42:17

The person who paid for it to get it done

42:19

as much will be helping the wife looking for him. God.

42:22

All right. And so when something like that

42:24

happened to you, that obviously for most people getting

42:27

shot would have been like a sort of life defining

42:29

event, but like, did you get- I

42:31

didn't win a three legged race. No, but were you,

42:34

were you angry? Did you want revenge off of you? Was I, was

42:36

I- I didn't know what it was about at first. Right.

42:39

You know, revenge weren't, weren't

42:41

it? I was just lucky it was there and not

42:43

anywhere else. You know, there was an awful lot of other

42:45

people getting shot at the time. So, you know,

42:48

it didn't change my life. I'm going to change

42:50

my whole life because that happened. You're

42:53

now in it. It is your associate. You are that.

42:55

You are now naughty. And

42:57

if you- You're in a family of naughty people. But

43:00

they shot you because you worked for someone else. Is

43:02

there any sort of like

43:04

compensation in that world? Like do they go, you've

43:06

been shot, so we're going to give you this money because- You are lovely,

43:08

you are. Okay, right. Honestly.

43:10

Fine, worth checking. I'm actually going to write that down and

43:13

put that out there just

43:15

as a little memo. Is there any compensation?

43:18

Do you know what I mean though? Like you've taken a bullet in the line

43:20

for someone else. No, no, no. If

43:23

you're silly enough to, and you've got enough time

43:25

and you just want to go and waste your negative energy

43:28

on revenge and

43:30

running around doing that, there's a million people

43:32

you could shoot for a million different reasons.

43:34

And if you've got 2000

43:36

people working for you, keeping myself out of

43:39

trouble is easy. It's

43:41

easy. Let me tell you something now, right? Now

43:44

I'm no longer doing anything active and

43:47

all that. Knuckle dust or caribbean is

43:49

purely a prop and all things like that. It's

43:51

keeping myself out of trouble is easy. Well, I've got people

43:54

that have worked for me for 30 years. They've

43:56

got holes in their body down to me. They've

43:59

been to...

43:59

prison for me, right? So when they

44:02

knock at my door tonight and go, Dave, help me,

44:04

I just caught my wife shagging the neighbor. I've killed him

44:06

and I want to get out of the country. Help me. What do

44:08

I do?

44:09

Sorry, I'm writing books now. I'm on tell you, I don't do that.

44:12

Do I? Is that hard, any? Or

44:15

do I make a phone call and help him? And then I'm back

44:17

in here. And because the police know

44:20

that that's him, they're on my phone, my ass, they

44:22

feel my ass, they're on, you know?

44:24

So I'm keeping me out of trouble.

44:27

It's easy. It's everyone that was knocking at me door going, Dave,

44:29

Dave, Dave, Dave. And I can't go because I'm a nice

44:32

man of really. No.

44:34

So they just wait for the time where they can catch

44:36

me doing that. So they're still listening

44:38

on my phone. Well, you, so you,

44:41

you mentioned earlier that you were sort of like brought

44:43

to sort of national attention after the craze

44:46

funeral and you use the term, I

44:48

think I've heard you say you don't like it. So I'm just saying

44:50

you use the term celebrity gangster. Yeah,

44:53

yeah, yeah. Celebrity gangster, I thought

44:55

it was going to propel my security company

44:57

into mega. But

45:00

it actually brought me to the attention of the general public

45:03

and to the attention of all of the

45:04

authorities. And it just came out that that was

45:06

their very first visual proof of

45:08

organized crime in this country. One

45:11

criminal organizing every

45:13

other criminal in Great Britain because everyone I brought down

45:16

had their own criminal CV, their

45:18

own little firms. A lot of these firms didn't get

45:20

on with each other, but on that one said

45:22

day where we're burying the actual monarch

45:25

of the underworld, Ronny Gray, they all

45:27

got on, they all behaved. So

45:29

it was one criminal organizing every other criminal

45:32

in England to come down to one place, be

45:34

seen, not hiding up valleys with a

45:36

collar up, going up pictures, no comment, doing

45:38

that, right? It's for the burial

45:40

of a super criminal. Yeah, that was the first sign

45:43

of organized

45:44

crime that ever, my God,

45:46

yeah.

45:48

I didn't actually,

45:49

weren't clever enough to be thinking that. I'm thinking,

45:51

right, you know,

45:53

I'll show off here. Everyone

45:55

in England and America want to have a look at what the British

45:57

crime thing's doing. I'll give them a sign to look.

45:59

I'm a bit like that, but not

46:02

realizing what the authorities were going to think of that.

46:04

And from that day on, it destroyed me.

46:07

Right. It actually destroyed Dave

46:09

Courtney. I could no longer kick someone's door down and

46:11

run in and do debt collection or anything. Because everyone went,

46:14

it was Dave Courtney, I know him. I've seen him on a telly.

46:16

Yesterday, it was the same English skinhead.

46:19

Every time I went into the bank to go and pay

46:21

in a check before I got to the counter, they went,

46:26

you know, I couldn't no longer

46:28

do nothing. So I then became in

46:30

the newspapers heir to the throne,

46:33

celebrity gangster. And I didn't actually want

46:35

that. So I quickly had to think of something

46:37

to do that was just as public

46:40

that took me off of that

46:42

super gangster thing. You know what I mean? No,

46:45

no, no gangster runs off into the sunset and

46:47

lives happily ever after. Or

46:50

you know, just

46:52

don't work. You end up with another couple of holes in you. You

46:54

didn't want or 35 years wrapped around you. So

46:56

I wrote a book quickly and

46:58

called it stop the ride. I want to get

47:00

off.

47:02

Which is

47:03

really it. And seeing everything

47:05

I then did became newsworthy,

47:08

whether I wanted to or not. They're

47:10

writing about me taking pictures of me and all that super gangster,

47:12

celebrity gangster. I thought, right, I'll have

47:15

a sit down and try and hide down a little alley

47:17

in Essex, wear

47:19

a brown tweed suit and try and hide from this.

47:22

Of course, they're doing loads of press

47:24

on me anyway.

47:26

Jump up, take it by the horns

47:28

and steer it into whatever way I could. Do

47:31

it on a celebrity thing. I'm not that anymore,

47:33

but blah, blah, blah, which didn't go down

47:35

well with some people because most

47:37

naughty men and villains and criminals

47:39

were

47:40

the rule was no pictures, no comment,

47:43

make down an alley, collar up, low key car.

47:46

And there's me going. And I was no bother

47:48

time. I'm

47:50

doing that. I'm no longer a. By the

47:52

time people knew I was celebrity gangster,

47:55

I no longer was. I'm not telling anyone

47:57

I was a gangster. I'm saying I knew her.

47:59

a lot,

48:00

I might not be the right way for things to happen.

48:03

And for me personally, I'm not the best, I had

48:05

the best shot. I've never

48:07

said that. You know, no one can, plastic

48:10

gangster and all that. The best one I heard on the

48:12

other day,

48:12

panda and gangster, they think that was. Pound

48:15

I've heard. Pound and gangster. I love that.

48:17

I love that. A

48:19

bendy Dave, I like that. But

48:21

you had like, I mean, you became a film star,

48:23

you're in TV. Well I've done everything, I've done whatever

48:26

they asked me to do then. Once my book

48:28

became a number one bestseller, which shocked

48:30

no one more than my English teacher did. They

48:33

then said, do another book about the rave scene.

48:36

My first book, Stop the Ride I Want to Get Off,

48:38

best book I ever wrote, because I never thought I was going to write another

48:40

one. I just done it to go, look, I ain't doing that

48:42

no more.

48:44

You know, they went to every single club I had

48:46

at Dorman, and didn't I do it? And when, if

48:48

you employed Dave Kulteney's Dorman, you won't have a license

48:50

for a television mate. So sack him

48:52

today.

48:55

Everyone I was doing my walk around audience

48:57

web shows, they went there and said, I don't

48:59

want Kulteney's boys meeting in your pub. I

49:01

think you're coming up for your licensing for a week, cancel

49:03

it. They went to the magazine where

49:06

I was a crime writer and

49:08

all that, and said, get rid of him. Why do you

49:10

think they did that?

49:11

Well, because the popularity was

49:13

what was killing them, you understand what I mean? I

49:16

was running for Lord Mayor once. I ran for Lord Mayor

49:18

in London once. Wow, did you? I didn't know that.

49:20

No, you don't know, look here. I'm

49:23

starting to check it. I'm doing it

49:25

to make you laugh out there, I'm sorry. Sorry.

49:28

Yeah, I ran for Lord Mayor once.

49:31

And,

49:33

you know, I'm not saying anyone was gonna vote

49:35

Ken Limonstone and change their mind about

49:37

Dave Kulteney. I think there's only something like 12% to

49:40

vote for London Lord Mayor.

49:42

And at the time, I had a magazine circulation,

49:45

the front magazine, where I had thousands of followers.

49:47

I was putting on raves up and down the country, where

49:50

I was getting thousands of people to go to

49:52

raves and pay 50 quid to get in. So

49:54

to go and get a couple of hundred

49:57

thousand people to come down to a polling station

49:59

and do that,

49:59

I became Lord Mayor and

50:02

that frightened them.

50:03

Right. It actually frightened them seriously. I

50:06

mean, the Lord Mayor's in charge of the Metropolitan

50:08

Police. I'd have given them a year off. I'd

50:10

have made them all wear their noses with the moustotic.

50:13

I'm in charge. Yeah. You know,

50:15

they absolutely terrified them. And

50:19

while all that was going on, you know, I

50:21

had strangely then got run over by a mysterious

50:24

man on the A2 in the middle of the

50:26

night, not drunk.

50:30

Hit while I was in a Range Rover, no one.

50:33

And I was pit manoeuvred. Now

50:35

I don't know any

50:37

other gangster in the world that

50:40

has tried to kill any other gangster in the world during

50:42

the pit manoeuvre. I don't know anyone. What's a pit manoeuvre?

50:45

I love you. You're

50:47

beautiful. A pit manoeuvre is a manoeuvre that

50:49

the police use when they're chasing

50:51

someone and they ping them and

50:53

stop them. Oh, see, right here. They just call it a pit manoeuvre. Only

50:56

the police do it. We don't.

50:58

You know, I could think of a million different ways to shoot

51:00

you rather than wait till you're on the M2 on camera,

51:02

do an un-morrow now and do that. But

51:05

that happened to me. I ended up going in a hospital. I was

51:07

in a coma for seven months. I was in a hospital. And

51:10

when I come out, they said all of the film footage

51:13

of the A2

51:14

wasn't on that night. Wow.

51:17

Because I couldn't catch it, right? And luckily

51:19

for me, they said, there was an undercover,

51:22

it was an

51:23

off-duty policeman following me that

51:25

took down all 13 witness statements.

51:28

But because I was in a coma, if Mr. Courtney

51:30

doesn't understand office environment,

51:33

things do get lost and all the witness

51:35

statements are lost. So what

51:37

do you think that was? What do you think that was? What

51:39

do you think that was? Well, I'm actually arrested and

51:41

I've nicked the police. They've actually called me a grass.

51:45

I went to court with a bent policeman that

51:47

I've been paying for years and years,

51:49

for years and years. And I'm afraid every,

51:52

when I was a criminal, if you didn't have a bent copy,

51:54

you're a fool. Everyone had one. I mean, they

51:56

all had one. And

51:59

when I am on...

51:59

He didn't say, yes, I'm working for Dave

52:02

for the last 15 years, because

52:04

they'd be all retrial, it's compensation, or anything. He

52:06

said, I was working for him, which had it been believed,

52:08

would have got me shot. But it did

52:10

cause him a lot of heartache and a lot of pain and stopped

52:13

the popularity thing. And they'd run round for eight

52:15

months while the court case was going on, saying,

52:17

Courtney might be a grass, Courtney might be a grass, which

52:19

still hurts, but it weren't proved. I

52:22

actually got not guilty. This is my sexiest day

52:24

as a criminal. Forgive me if you see a little lump

52:26

on my trousers. Forgive me. I

52:28

went to the old valium, got not guilty, and the cop

52:31

got a five. Stop it.

52:34

Stop it. I

52:36

got not guilty. I said, oh, my time. I got not guilty,

52:38

and the cop got a five. Now, my biggest

52:40

day, crime-wise, you know, and

52:44

after that, I then took out a private

52:46

summons at that High Court of Justice

52:49

with Bill Murray, the bloke who played the Ben Copper

52:51

in the bill, and Martin

52:54

Brunt filmed it for Sky and said, look, right, well,

52:56

I'm nicking the police for attempted murder. You

52:58

called me a grass. When you know,

53:00

and it was proved I wasn't, I

53:03

actually bugged the copper and handed them the tape.

53:05

Why? I had the, you

53:07

know, so they knew, but the day I got arrested, I gave it

53:10

to them, but they continually said, Courtney might be a grass, Courtney

53:12

might be a grass, Courtney might be a grass, right up till the day the court

53:15

case started, then he

53:17

went guilty and said, no, it was me. So

53:20

for eight months, while I was, instead of being, oh, Mr. Popular,

53:23

doing the rows, doing the parties, writing the books,

53:26

running for Lord Mayor, I went, you could be a grass,

53:28

could be a grass, could be a grass, stopped all

53:30

of that, got sacked through the dorm, and

53:32

then on that day that it was proved I

53:34

wasn't, and the copper went to prison, I just

53:36

didn't put on the telly. Right. You

53:38

know, actually made me do something

53:40

while all that was going on. I was so frustrated

53:43

with the fact that

53:45

he was calling me an informant. On one of the

53:47

court cases that we was going up to court, I

53:49

had said to him, if you put me in the dock with

53:52

him, if you put me within arms reach

53:54

of him, I will chin him. And I've got

53:56

that all on tape, so they did believe it, because

53:58

while we were going to the registries.

53:59

They put him on in the morning and me on in the afternoon,

54:02

him in the morning, me on in the afternoon. And then one

54:04

day, because they were going, cook there might be

54:06

a glass, cook there might be a glass. And I could see the popularity

54:09

of everything hurting me. And it was hurting me.

54:11

I went a cork dressed, it was

54:13

a cork jester, with all the

54:15

bells and the things. And I brought 40

54:18

of my mates all dressed in black. And I

54:20

went into court, and as I went into court to go and

54:22

say, look,

54:23

it is a joke.

54:24

I shouldn't be here, you know, blah, blah, blah. He

54:27

was coming out.

54:28

So I tinned him and I knocked him out in court.

54:30

It was all on 10 o'clock news. Oh

54:34

my God, really? Forget I am a god

54:36

stuff, just call me Dave. Dave, Dave,

54:39

Dave, but. So you're just in front of all the cameras?

54:41

In front of everything, I tinned him, yeah. It's dressed as a jester.

54:43

It's definitely again, wait. Well,

54:45

the dress is a cork jester. I knocked

54:48

him out. It's on the 10 o'clock news, you can go and have a

54:50

look at it. And I'll

54:52

have a little speech afterwards, blah, blah, blah. And

54:55

I've done all, I've done audience with, you know,

54:57

around the world, I've been to Sicily to talk to the mafia

55:00

with 25 mafia men and

55:02

five interpreters going, there's an unwritten

55:05

rule book about going to court.

55:06

And everyone in the world knows it. It's

55:09

unwritten. It's one is you do not bring all your friends,

55:12

you wear a nice suit and it's yes or no, sir.

55:14

And a letter from someone that's known you 20 years saying you're

55:17

a nice bloke. They're the rules of going to court for everyone. The

55:19

only people that don't do that are the Cots and Ostro.

55:23

Because they know it's John Gotti. What's the point of him showing

55:25

up to turn up and go, I'm a nice bloke. So

55:27

they turn up to court gangster. He said, the only

55:29

one we've ever seen do that is you. Tell

55:32

me what was going in your head that day. And

55:34

so I've been out there and done talks for them. And I've

55:36

now traveled the world explaining

55:38

why

55:38

I did what I did that day. But I was so frustrated

55:41

at what they were doing to me. You

55:43

know what I mean? I knew I was getting not guilty. They knew

55:45

I was getting not guilty. They had the tape of

55:47

me

55:49

doing him, but they allowed all this to

55:51

be written to press just to hurt me. And

55:53

on the very day the court case started, he

55:55

went, okay, guilty.

55:57

And he did stop me. I never got.

55:59

I quoted in, lucky for Ken and everything. And

56:04

it did slow down a lot for me. And I did lose

56:06

a dime and it did actually hurt me, but I'm still

56:08

here to tell myself, I'm not moaning about the sad

56:11

bits. I've had an awful lot of good bits. Well, when

56:13

you say there you got found not guilty,

56:15

how many times have you actually been sent to prison in

56:17

your life?

56:18

I'm famous for getting not guilties. I've

56:20

had over 20 not guilties. And

56:23

the reason I could get away with things

56:25

then before technology,

56:27

ain't it great?

56:29

Ain't it great is

56:32

being very popular and having an awful lot of friends, the

56:34

first rules in the Archibald's Law

56:36

Book is, if there is any

56:38

doubt whatsoever that you

56:41

might be not guilty,

56:42

they have to go not guilty.

56:44

And if a policeman saw you

56:46

shoot someone,

56:47

but you could pull up 30 witnesses

56:49

to say, no, we was with Dave,

56:52

he heard a bang, ran over, picked up the

56:54

gun and then the cop ran over and grabbed him. If you had

56:56

a policeman, a fireman, a soldier, or two

56:59

nurses, if you had 30 witnesses

57:01

saying it weren't you

57:02

and prepared to go, I swear, two or three or four

57:04

or five or six, they weren't me God, all right?

57:07

That's element of doubt. So you

57:09

would be found not guilty. So I've had 20

57:12

not guilties due

57:14

to people helping me. Now you

57:17

can't do that. Because as soon as you pull up any

57:19

witness, they check your Facebook.

57:22

You can't have him as your best mate.

57:24

You can't have him as your best mate. You

57:26

can't have him as your best mate. And

57:29

anyone that's close enough to you that would lie in

57:31

court for you is on your Facebook,

57:33

ain't it? And now you can't do that no more.

57:39

And I've had some blinding ones in court, man. Listen,

57:41

I've had some absolute peaches in

57:44

court. And my little statement, my little statement,

57:47

one of my, sorry, sorry,

57:49

show off here. While I was actually

57:51

in that court case with the copper, the

57:53

whole gallery was packed. And

57:56

as they're sentencing and they're giving him the five

57:58

years and I'm getting not guilty.

57:59

looking at them, not realising the judges

58:02

on me. And I'm looking at them trying to emphasise

58:05

the,

58:06

told you, really doing

58:08

it too much. You go and

58:11

check all the court food, you went, Mr. Corny. He

58:14

said, that look on your face could be

58:16

mistaken as gloating. I

58:19

said, Your Honour, I said, it's no mistake. Stop

58:24

it. But you,

58:26

so you're famous for not guilty, but am I right in thinking

58:28

that you actually met Charles Bronson in prison?

58:30

No, no, no, I heard Charles Bronson. I didn't meet

58:32

him, I heard him. I've been to prison, I suppose,

58:35

I'm remand, I've done

58:38

five and a half years,

58:40

I suppose, I'm remand, I've done a year of remand,

58:42

got not guilty, eight months got not guilty,

58:45

six months not guilty, six months not guilty. And

58:50

one of the times I was in prison, although he's a good friend

58:52

now, the very first time I ever heard of Charles

58:54

Bronson, I was in the special unit

58:56

at Belmarsh, which is a prison built

58:58

within a prison for

59:01

the 40 most criminally minded criminals in

59:03

Great Britain. And it's a remand thing

59:05

while they're waiting to get 50 years, 100 years, whatever. And

59:09

it's for people with the financial ability to

59:12

get out or the manpower, you know,

59:14

and at the time I had found, I had an army out

59:16

there.

59:18

I was lying in bed, it was two o'clock, and

59:20

it's a very good impression, I know Charlie very well.

59:23

And I was lying in bed and

59:26

Dave Cootie coming in prison just nicked a little

59:28

bit, we spunder, I think, they're nothing more than that. And

59:31

I heard, Cootie. Ruined

59:37

the wack, I gotta tell you that, completely,

59:41

completely ruined the wack.

59:45

Wow, what was that? Cootie.

59:48

I'm thinking, this is the truth, I remember

59:51

it like, yesterday I thought the only chance

59:53

I got is there might be someone

59:55

in here called Cootie, that might. And

59:58

I'm gonna burn all in your.

59:59

chest and suck the f***ing life

1:00:02

out of you. What?

1:00:06

I can't tell you. God.

1:00:09

I'm telling you, stop calling me God. I'm

1:00:11

going to expect everyone else to do it. But

1:00:14

I'm telling you, once you heard I was

1:00:17

truly petrified and I teach people, don't

1:00:19

be frightened of someone's voice, don't be frightened on the phone,

1:00:22

anyone can ring up and pray. Don't do

1:00:24

that. But that done me. It completely done me.

1:00:26

God's prison is chatting to each other

1:00:29

out the windows going, Bronson, Stucky on Bronson,

1:00:31

Bronson, Stucky on Connie, when they're all talking to each other

1:00:33

and you can hear the other 1500 whispers

1:00:35

going, that's where, that's where, that's where, that's how,

1:00:38

what you can do, what you can do. I was like, please.

1:00:40

Now, I

1:00:42

don't know at this time. He's

1:00:46

in solitary confinement and the chances

1:00:49

of me ever bumping into him,

1:00:50

I have more chance of genuinely

1:00:53

bumping into the queen. That's the truth. I

1:00:55

have more chance of me bumping into the queen

1:00:58

than I ever would chance of bumping into

1:01:00

Charlie Bronson, who's in solitary confinement,

1:01:03

who's locked up in a hole, in a

1:01:05

thing. He's never seen anyone for 30 years. Now,

1:01:08

I didn't know I wasn't going to bump into him in the library, in

1:01:10

the gym, down at church. I didn't know

1:01:12

that,

1:01:14

which might explain my

1:01:16

next move. So I didn't know I wasn't

1:01:18

going to bump into him. So with

1:01:20

that in mind, they're all going, oh,

1:01:22

Connie, so I've come to the window and went, I'm

1:01:24

my best self-run tank of the voice.

1:01:27

Charlie? Charlie, stop

1:01:30

here. Stop here. Charlie, Wally. Come

1:01:32

on, sweetie. Be yourself, right? I can't actually

1:01:35

say no, it never, because there's 11, 1500 people

1:01:37

that heard it. I

1:01:46

can't actually say anything else. And I know,

1:01:49

and I was never going to see him. I'd have gone, oh, you bump into him.

1:01:51

You bump into him. I'll have you tomorrow.

1:01:52

I had on known. But

1:01:55

anyway, I never. He's become a very, very close

1:01:58

friend of mine. He actually brings me here for every day and so.

1:01:59

He sings to me now. Wow. You

1:02:02

can put this in your show. I've put them up on the

1:02:04

website. He sings different songs to me all the time,

1:02:06

every day.

1:02:08

And so I've had two of his wedding receptions

1:02:11

in my pubs and all that. Now I

1:02:13

think what's happened with Charlie is I'm

1:02:15

not one of his people sending him out.

1:02:18

Yeah. I think the crime is this, you

1:02:20

know, he might be a little bit,

1:02:23

he might be a little bit

1:02:26

mental health at the moment and not enough to

1:02:28

lay out on the road. But

1:02:30

he's definitely well enough to let out of solitary confinement. I've

1:02:33

kept him in solitary confinement

1:02:36

for 30 years.

1:02:37

All everyone really

1:02:40

should be saying, he's not letting him out. He's

1:02:42

taking him out of there and letting him say hello to

1:02:44

someone, letting him say good morning to someone, letting

1:02:46

him say goodnight, letting him stand beside someone and

1:02:48

have a wee in the toilet, letting him sit

1:02:50

beside someone and watch telly. Any normal

1:02:54

thing. Yeah, just normal,

1:02:56

you know, if he does something wrong again and

1:02:58

then lock him up and sort of, but not to keep

1:03:00

a man in a cupboard, not talking to anyone.

1:03:03

He does his exercise on his own, dinner

1:03:06

comes under, you know, he don't see anyone to do

1:03:08

any, you know, even the hostage

1:03:11

that he took hostage was stood

1:03:13

up at the court case and when I was in no

1:03:16

physical danger, all he'd done is

1:03:18

kept me there and spoke to me continually

1:03:21

for 24 hours, you know.

1:03:23

He just wanted to talk and get some reaction

1:03:25

and chat and what kind of wallpaper he got. He

1:03:27

just wanted even the hostage. These

1:03:30

hostage went blah, blah, blah. They had the screws

1:03:32

that lock him up when, you know,

1:03:34

he ain't no trouble down there really and we're not going

1:03:36

to get to the point where, yeah, all of the psychiatrists

1:03:39

and mental people said, we're not saying let him out, but maybe

1:03:42

just locking up in

1:03:45

solitary might be a little bit wrong. But

1:03:47

someone at the home office went no, keep

1:03:50

him in there.

1:03:51

Now, hear me with this. This is only

1:03:53

my own personal

1:03:55

reason for that,

1:03:56

right? But cleverly,

1:03:59

if I was...

1:03:59

They are doing that to one person,

1:04:02

which is a bit wrong,

1:04:03

morally, you know. But

1:04:05

by doing that to that one man, they

1:04:08

have kept every other prisoner in England

1:04:10

under manners.

1:04:11

So if you now want to start tearing

1:04:14

up prison cells, climbing up on the roof, lighting

1:04:16

fires, taking people hostage, they can go,

1:04:18

do you want to do that? Do you want us to do that to you?

1:04:21

Do you want us to lock you up here forever?

1:04:25

Yeah, because we do and can. Look, he got seven

1:04:27

years. He's done 47. Do

1:04:29

you want that? And

1:04:31

it slows you down. If they start being nice and letting

1:04:33

him out, they haven't actually got a deterrent or a threat.

1:04:37

You understand? Me personally, that's why I think

1:04:39

the only possible reason other

1:04:42

than pure vindictive dustiness

1:04:44

and with the amount of public support he's

1:04:46

got at the moment,

1:04:47

you know, they might be shouting for too much of a touch,

1:04:50

you know, let him out. Yeah,

1:04:52

but like, wow, you've

1:04:54

got to at least let that happen.

1:04:56

I think that, you know, who am

1:04:58

I? I can't think of any other reason

1:05:01

that they would continually be so

1:05:04

blatantly openly spiteful and

1:05:06

not worry about what the general public think

1:05:08

and go, no, he's not doing it. You

1:05:11

know, educate me if you would, if someone

1:05:13

would like to tell me there is another reason, I'll grab

1:05:15

that. You know, I can't.

1:05:17

It makes sense. And I look over this conversation,

1:05:20

we've talked about some like very famous

1:05:22

British gangsters, you know, Bronson, The Craz,

1:05:24

Yourself, McLean, those kind of huge

1:05:27

names. Like, do you think those

1:05:29

kind of people who get

1:05:30

films made about them, books written about

1:05:33

them, TV series made about them, do

1:05:35

you think they're still being created in the

1:05:37

UK or do you think that was a period in time? No,

1:05:39

I'm afraid it's a period in time. Yeah.

1:05:42

What, why? Well, it's actually the same as

1:05:46

famous New England in the past. It's

1:05:49

a historical thing like cowboys,

1:05:52

pirates,

1:05:53

knights in shining armour, gangsters.

1:05:56

It's all an old fashioned thing. Anyone

1:05:58

trying to be one of them.

1:06:00

They're building prisons to put you in,

1:06:03

yeah? Like the individual

1:06:05

Lenny McClain's, there ain't no doorman

1:06:07

now that's known up and down the country. There

1:06:10

ain't no bank robber that's so famous, everyone

1:06:12

in England knows him. There ain't no

1:06:14

prize fighter that's on everyone's

1:06:16

lips. There ain't no,

1:06:18

you understand what I mean? Yeah, it's a romantic

1:06:20

thing of the past. Like I said, you could almost

1:06:23

stand up in an era once after

1:06:25

the war and say in school, my

1:06:27

dad's a criminal, my dad's a villain, be proud

1:06:29

of it. Now standing up and saying my dad's

1:06:31

a drug dealer ain't got the same cut. Yeah,

1:06:34

it ain't the same. So it's a period

1:06:36

in history. It's a period in history where,

1:06:38

you know,

1:06:40

I know they were naughty, but they're in child,

1:06:43

especially today that we're not like that no more,

1:06:45

they're in child to be

1:06:47

hero-lized. You know what I mean?

1:06:49

I've all wrote about, or films about, that we're a different

1:06:51

breed that we are no longer. You

1:06:54

know, like cavemen, cowboys, there's

1:06:56

a different era of men that they don't make

1:06:58

no more. You know, the English

1:07:01

criminal, you know, running

1:07:03

Bethnal Green was a lot easier then when

1:07:05

there was only 50,000 people in Bethnal

1:07:08

Green and everyone spoke and understood English

1:07:11

for the craze.

1:07:12

Now three quarters of them couldn't say

1:07:14

the name crap with.

1:07:18

You know, we all had the English criminals

1:07:20

hailed human life at a certain standard.

1:07:23

You know, the different nationalities that call

1:07:26

this home now,

1:07:27

it's not the same. You know, human life

1:07:29

in Albania, Bosnia, Moscow,

1:07:33

Afghanistan, you know, it isn't

1:07:35

the same value.

1:07:37

So the crimes and the, what

1:07:40

tools they're carrying and the values

1:07:42

of life and honor among

1:07:44

thieves is no longer there no more. Right,

1:07:47

there is honor among thieves, but there ain't no honor among

1:07:49

drug dealing.

1:07:51

No, I'm not, I'm not

1:07:53

saying I'm knocking it. Most of my friends are,

1:07:55

I have been and still do

1:07:57

take, you know, I'm not.

1:08:00

The rewards, the financial rewards

1:08:02

are that much. Now it's

1:08:04

too tempting not to. I'm afraid

1:08:07

with that much money, you are going to get an awful lot more people

1:08:09

dying and getting hurt and going missing

1:08:12

and being disloyal, grassing up

1:08:14

and about

1:08:15

it. You understand what I mean? Okay,

1:08:18

so I guess my final question for you, Dave, is

1:08:21

when you look back over your life and obviously

1:08:24

being a very colorful, interesting one, what

1:08:27

do you think your life's taught you? What's something

1:08:29

that you believe that you've become aware

1:08:31

of that other people might not know through

1:08:34

the experiences you've had?

1:08:36

Hold your family close. Hold

1:08:40

your family close and stay true

1:08:44

to you. Stay true to

1:08:46

you. Don't be easily impressed,

1:08:49

all right?

1:08:51

And be a little bit happier with what you've

1:08:53

got instead of clambering for something else.

1:08:55

Because it's the clambering for something else. Don't

1:08:57

try and impress anybody. That's

1:09:00

where bullies come from. Don't try and

1:09:02

impress anybody with, I've got to get

1:09:04

the money to get the back up. Be happy with the car

1:09:06

you got.

1:09:07

You are in the wrong era now

1:09:09

to be a G.

1:09:11

You're in the wrong era. You're not competing against

1:09:14

a Sherlock Holmes policeman no more.

1:09:17

You're trying to beat technology

1:09:19

and you can't. You

1:09:24

can't judge before being a

1:09:26

good judge of character and then you can't get you

1:09:28

out of prison. But now your phone will grass you up. You're sat in

1:09:30

there, it will grass you up. The camera's on

1:09:32

the traffic lights. You know, you are a f***.

1:09:35

So find another way than crime to get

1:09:37

on or you're a losing battle. That

1:09:40

would be my advice. Great,

1:09:42

it makes complete sense. Listen, it's been a brilliant

1:09:44

conversation. Wish I could say the same.

1:09:47

Yeah, yeah. Final dig, appreciate

1:09:49

that. Everyone's been laughing throughout at

1:09:51

your withering

1:09:53

takedowns of me. But I'll go

1:09:55

back to host school. Thank you very much for coming

1:09:58

in, Dave. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, me too, man.

1:09:59

Me too. Thanks, mate.