0:00

Ethnically Ambiguous is a production of I

0:02

Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

0:04

My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

0:06

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

0:08

favorite shows. Hi, Hello,

0:11

blurring. I don't understand

0:13

what you're trying to say, but it's because

0:15

of my apartment has bad lighting whatever,

0:18

man's I was trying to do, like Sharene,

0:20

but I just said blurring because you

0:22

know, people always mess up your names. I was just trying

0:24

to go too hard. If I'm

0:28

Sharene and they're like, hell, you are nice to meet

0:30

you, blurring, I would not

0:32

know how to respond to that. I would just go with

0:35

it. I would be that person for the rest of my life.

0:37

I'm sorry. It's okay, definitely ambiguous,

0:40

and I'm sorry definically

0:42

ambiguous. We have a phenomenal

0:44

episode today for y'all. You guys wanna

0:46

like it. It's a great episode. Yeah.

0:48

Derek Lemos is with us today. We talked

0:51

about politics, We talked about his journey

0:53

into the performance world,

0:56

have that got started, his family, his

0:58

podcast, Man Explaining your Self, and so much

1:00

more. It is a delight. He's

1:03

from the desert. It

1:05

stated, who

1:09

are we? Where

1:11

are they? To Who do we

1:13

become? What is it

1:15

to be? What to be?

1:18

Is it? There? Are? Who

1:21

are my parents? Where

1:23

are my pants? Why

1:25

are we born? We

1:29

are ethnically

1:31

ambiguous? Hi?

1:36

Hi? Are

1:39

we the same person? I mean

1:41

at this point people haven't seen this in

1:43

the same room quite some time. I know,

1:45

I do both voices. Your

1:48

face. You

1:51

to impersonate me at first, and I was like, will

1:53

she dare? Because sometimes you feel like I

1:55

get really some problems. I'm sharen,

1:59

I'm trying to make the worst voice. But oh

2:03

my god, you have to stop right now. I

2:05

didn't really think that's what you said.

2:08

I know, I know, but I will say

2:10

I get very self conscious about people mimaking

2:12

me. Can I do my impression of you? Okay?

2:15

Did I do bad? Just

2:19

that? Circle? Really?

2:21

Oh that with the impression on? I'm

2:23

sorry, I get very

2:25

self conscious about people mimking my voice.

2:28

I've said this before on this podcast. I've been self

2:30

conscious about my voice for most of my life.

2:32

But like, my older sister has a higher

2:34

pitched voice than me, but we sound similar.

2:36

So every time she would impersonate me, she'd

2:38

like make it way too low

2:40

like and that made me feel

2:43

very self conscious. And then and

2:45

then in college someone told me, one

2:47

of my best friends told me I sounded like a muppet,

2:49

and then I got very soul conscious about that. And

2:52

this is someone on the podcast I was a

2:54

guest on commented that

2:56

I always sound like I'm about to cry.

3:00

Sorry, no, no, I like it. There's

3:03

there's some stuff there. That velvety voice

3:06

that you just heard is our guest for today.

3:08

By the way, spoiler alert, this is someone

3:10

we've been trying to get on the pond for a minute

3:13

in the beginning of this year, and then

3:15

ship went down, as you may or may

3:17

not know, And here we are, finally

3:20

long road, but I'm glad that we're finally

3:22

connecting. It's I should have

3:24

fuck me. I

3:26

don't know how you're going to get it wrong here. It's

3:28

pretty I can see his last name wrong, probably

3:32

the last name wrong. It sounds exactly

3:34

like it's spelled like think it

3:36

looks that's probably okay.

3:39

It looks like lemons lemos. Okay,

3:41

I just I don't You never know everything

3:44

you don't mean. That's very considered of you, that's

3:46

very Derekmos

3:53

lemos are limos lemos. So

3:55

when when life gives you lemos Oh,

3:58

I like that. When when

4:00

I finally get off my ask and record my comedy

4:02

special, that's what it's going to be called. Oh I love it.

4:04

Uh yeah, when life gives you Derek

4:08

Lamos kind of how

4:11

you're starting, I

4:13

overthink everything, and so by

4:16

the time I land on the right pronunciation, I convinced

4:18

myself it's wrong in my hand. I'm like, it's I

4:20

don't know, does that make sense? I don't totally.

4:23

But we're very happy to have you here. We

4:25

are a long time coming. I'm very happy

4:27

to be here with a very famous Elizabeth

4:29

Holmes. Excuse me that you

4:35

were talking about your voice earlier and people making fun

4:37

of you. So I

4:40

am wearing your turtle deck right now. I'm

4:42

Elizabeth Home. I

4:46

mean, she scanned a bunch of rich dudes out of like

4:48

a lot of money, So I mean, I

4:50

mean, Jamie Loft, this is impression of her

4:52

is impeccable. In my opinion. She makes

4:55

like it's not a direct impersonation of Holmes,

4:58

but it's basically the character that she does based

5:00

off of her. She's cornered

5:02

the girl Boss market, and here

5:05

saying girl Boss parody market,

5:07

if you will. She's not a girl. She's not

5:09

a terrible girls. Lord

5:13

help us, Lord help us. I'm

5:15

really hoping girl boss trend. Actually,

5:19

as much as I'm glad we have a woman in the White House,

5:21

I think girl Boss is going to exist

5:24

for a very long time because fortunate thing

5:26

is, while we do have a woman of color who is going

5:28

to be our first ever vice president,

5:30

woman of color, just anyone woman of color

5:32

in the White House, biz in

5:35

one of the positions, not including you

5:37

know, first wife.

5:41

She is the queen of pant suit nation

5:43

exactly. It's

5:45

so much progress being made in her

5:48

position, her shortcomings

5:50

aside, She's had an incredible

5:53

rise to this position. You know, yeah,

5:55

that's undeniable. Oh absolutely, I think.

5:57

I think the real market progress is when we

6:00

can have like a female

6:02

Bernie Sanders just like schleppy

6:05

and just showing up, just yelling at people

6:08

like here's how it's got to be done. I

6:11

am waiting for that. I'm really hoping

6:14

AOC is not just

6:16

a pipe dream president for me. I really

6:18

want her to be president. If we want

6:20

AOC to be president, we have to

6:22

destroy the d n C, because the DNC

6:25

will fucking do everything

6:28

they can to keep AOC down because

6:30

these establishment democrats,

6:33

these mother and

6:35

everything, they just don't get

6:37

it. Nancy Pelosi, you dumb bitch,

6:40

you don't get it. They're

6:42

basically get it. Stop using people of

6:45

color as fucking symbols for your magazine

6:47

covers, you dumb bitch. Sorry I

6:49

had to say it. She is also in

6:51

pant suit nation. I think that's

6:54

where, like a lot of at least myself,

6:56

I get frustrated with other liberals.

6:58

They're starting to point out those

7:00

kinds of hypocrisies from other Democrats.

7:03

You guys need to do better, not it's like

7:05

they know better. They just don't

7:08

give a funk. That's

7:10

the real conversation. I think we need to be having

7:12

more off more frequently. Is like reminding

7:14

people like these are people who have been in politics

7:17

for decades, who

7:19

have made their money, who have their connections,

7:22

who are so far removed

7:25

from what you and I experienced on

7:27

a day to day level. They don't

7:29

get it, and they don't want to. Yeah,

7:31

they want to hold onto their money. Bernie

7:34

Sanders, I mean, I'm going to be a supporter

7:37

of his for the end of time. He's

7:39

like the sole person in politics other

7:41

than now AOC in my opinion, a couple

7:43

of other people of color that have had

7:45

the same values their entire political

7:47

career and to their detriment.

7:49

In a way, if he had

7:52

bent a little bit more than he did, maybe

7:54

he would have gotten further. But his

7:57

commitment to his values, I think is more

7:59

commendable than that. The way

8:01

that Democrats in particular operated,

8:04

not even just just this year, but four years ago,

8:06

really was so disappointing to me.

8:09

I don't really understand how many

8:11

people still support Elizabeth Warren

8:13

after the ship she pulled, you know what I mean, Like, I

8:15

will never get over that, and there

8:17

are so many issues I have with Warren, but like the

8:19

fact that she for a while after

8:23

Bernie Sanders, she was like the most powerful

8:25

person in the nation for like a week, and she

8:27

squandered that she

8:30

bamboozled us, and instead she showed

8:32

up on SNL and it was

8:34

just so telling, Like there are so many

8:36

liberals that when she showed up on SNL

8:38

with Kate McKinnon, they were like my mom's

8:40

and I was like, no, like you're missing

8:43

the whole point anyway. I'm just this

8:46

is obviously an issue I've thinking about for a long time. We've

8:48

learned one thing about the d n C, and they

8:50

are really just a money laundering

8:52

organization at this point. They just want

8:54

money. The dance and establishment

8:57

Democrats are capitalists until that day

8:59

they I they don't give a shit about your

9:01

middle class. They don't give a shit about anyone, They

9:03

don't give a shit about people of color. They just want

9:05

control so they can keep making more money,

9:08

keep wearing their pants suits, and then keep

9:10

posing side by side like we did it saying

9:13

the country. Yeah, I loved like

9:15

like over the last four years they

9:17

would use like whatever was trending

9:19

on Twitter to send me a fucking email

9:22

asking me for money, like we need

9:24

to stop Trump. Okay, then actually do

9:26

it. Yeah, you have to do

9:28

so much more. Yeah, it goes

9:31

from the federal government down like

9:34

Gavin Newsome and fucking Eric

9:36

Garcetti, you know, these

9:38

kind of like show bodie like

9:40

just very performative politicians.

9:43

Yeah that like, oh we wish we could. We

9:45

have to protect winners and we have to protect

9:47

people of marginalized people. Then fucking

9:50

do it. You're saying it like you're not somebody

9:52

in a position of authority, Exactly.

9:55

I don't want to just like hay don it

9:57

Liza with Warren for too much. But I think she's a good

9:59

exam ample of a white

10:01

person capitalizing on

10:04

people of color in a very sinister way,

10:06

like the excuse that she didn't know

10:08

any better to not fucking literally

10:11

take the place of a woman of color for

10:13

a lot of her career and try

10:15

to pass off as that and then be like

10:17

I didn't know. Like, no, you if you're as smart

10:19

as everyone says you are, if you're if you're as

10:22

smart as like we want to believe you are, you

10:24

knew. And I think a

10:26

lot of politicians do that. But the

10:28

way she did it, in my opinion, is

10:30

unforgivable and very sinister. If

10:32

she actually cared about people of color

10:35

in the way that we want her to in the progressive

10:37

movement, she not only

10:39

would not have doubled down in her ignorance,

10:41

but she would do something else to actually help

10:44

the indigenous community in a way that isn't

10:46

performative, you know what I mean? Like, no, that's

10:48

exactly it. Yeah. We can kind of analyze

10:51

all day about what she thought, you

10:53

know, what she was told growing up or whatever, and

10:55

how many, many,

10:56

many many white people think they're quarter

10:59

cherick here or what ever. It's

11:02

funny to me, just like it's a brief

11:04

sidetrack. How like, of all

11:07

the hundreds of tribal

11:09

nations of white people

11:11

come from the Cherokee Nation, it's the only

11:13

name they remember. It's the only one they remember. Yeah,

11:16

it's because it's a brand. That's like, yeah, we

11:18

can we can talk about like her reasoning all day

11:20

behind it. But it's like, Okay, you

11:22

sucked up. Everybody knows that you've sucked up.

11:24

Now the apology is

11:27

nice, but that's

11:29

like baseline, that's like mini So

11:32

that's that's like what comes next now that you are

11:34

aware, your actions have to follow

11:36

that awareness. Yea. And

11:38

I think if anyone's done any like self

11:41

work or even gone to therapy

11:43

or like learned about what a

11:45

real apology actually means, a big

11:47

part of actually being sorry is fixing

11:51

your behavior and atoning in a way that

11:53

is like actionable change. And without

11:56

that, the apology is empty and

11:58

it should be regarded as empty. And so

12:01

I think we should just expect more of our progressive

12:03

leaders, and the majority of them

12:05

are not very are not as progressive as we

12:07

want them. We want to believe they are. But

12:09

but didn't you know that criticizing democrats

12:12

equals God? That

12:15

makes me so yeah, I mean, that's

12:18

a whole another thorn in my side

12:20

kind of thing. And I'm sure everybody,

12:22

but and I do want to not take this time

12:25

to acknowledge that Kamala

12:27

Harris should acknowledge

12:29

I'm acknowledging that she should acknowledge

12:32

the very high cast

12:35

that she's from in the Indian community

12:37

that enslaves others. Just saying,

12:39

just saying, just saying, if you're going to

12:41

rock that Indian heritage, at least acknowledge

12:44

your privilege within that Indian heritage,

12:46

because it's wild. I've

12:48

read a lot. They're called the Brachmine

12:51

community, and they're from mostly Tamil

12:53

Nadu and that cast they're

12:55

like one of the highest Indian casts, and

12:58

they are linked to a lot

13:00

of not great behavior

13:03

and poor treatment of poor

13:05

casts. So I don't know about you, but

13:08

I mean, I've noticed that she doesn't acknowledge

13:10

it, but I think you should, because

13:13

I think it would say a lot about her if she did

13:15

acknowledge it and did acknowledge her privilege

13:17

in that situation, You've got to talk about

13:19

these things, especially if she wants

13:21

to be seen as somebody

13:24

who like is taking accountability

13:26

for their past mistake and she has a good number

13:28

of them to be honest like, which

13:30

she doesn't really. At the same time, I think

13:32

Anna, you tweeted something in reference

13:34

to this, I think about Barack Obama.

13:37

But as a person of color, especially

13:39

as a woman of color, to get ahead,

13:41

you have to make some moral sacrifices,

13:43

especially in politics, and I can

13:46

never understand how hard

13:48

that must be because she has

13:50

been a pioneer for a

13:52

lot of communities, whether like a

13:54

child of immigrants South Asian descent,

13:57

Black descent, even as a senator, and

13:59

she's young, Like I'm excited about someone

14:01

that young being a Vice President because

14:03

I've wanted a young person in the White House

14:05

for so long. But it's

14:08

really, I think unfortunate

14:10

how money moral sacrifices

14:13

you have to make to get ahead, especially

14:16

in politics, especially as a woman, especially

14:18

as a person of color, because I really

14:21

value the pivotal moment that she

14:23

presents, like again, children

14:25

of immigrants, Black and the South Asian,

14:28

let alone a woman like you know, like,

14:30

there are so many amazing things she's

14:32

accomplished in a very short amount of time.

14:34

Her career is not that long in comparison

14:37

like Hillary clan or Joe Biden. I

14:40

tried to look at her Instagram and an ad started

14:42

playing, and it startled the ship out of me.

14:45

Just now you may have heard it go off. I was trying

14:47

to be like, what has she been posting? But I got an

14:49

ad on her Instagram? I don't know

14:51

what the fuss going on? Yeah,

14:54

was it just a celebratory like, hey

14:56

thanks, It

14:58

may have been a video, but it's startled me, Like

15:00

I didn't wasn't expecting it, and

15:03

I'm a little scared to go back to her instag Or

15:05

was it you know, Tom Perez asking you for more money?

15:08

Was so we won the White House,

15:10

but there's so much more work to do. But

15:13

to like talk about your pointing, like obviously,

15:16

I am, uh, it's just gender male,

15:19

So like I am speaking with a lot

15:21

of privilege here and I acknowledge that,

15:24

but like the idea of having to make concessions

15:26

to like get ahead, it kind

15:28

of I'm looking at like Shirley Chisholm,

15:31

for example, who like

15:33

didn't necessarily compromise in a lot

15:35

of ways, Like she was very

15:37

staunchly like pro labor and

15:40

had a lot of progressive ideas back in the you

15:42

know, in the seventies when she ran and

15:45

again DNC did everything that they could to

15:47

kind of like hold her back. Yeah,

15:50

it's I mean, she's an example of it being

15:52

possible to not lose yourself.

15:55

To me, it feels like, how

15:59

easily do you want your career path to

16:01

be? Because yeah, it's a lot fucking

16:03

harder to like you said, being

16:05

morally steadfast and the things that you believe,

16:09

But it's a lot easier to make those kinds

16:11

of concessions and take that

16:13

corporate money or to take those kinds of deals,

16:16

and like, it just makes me curious about

16:18

that that individual their moral compass.

16:20

You got to where you were, but at what costs?

16:22

Yeah, And I think what kind of bothers

16:25

me, even with some of my friends, is that they boil

16:27

it down to like no politician is

16:29

perfect, Like this is just how politics

16:32

is. And I don't want that to be what politics

16:34

is. That should see what politics is. Yeah,

16:37

And I think we shouldn't accept

16:39

imperfect. I

16:41

don't like that ultimate conclusion

16:44

of well that's what the game is, because

16:46

it should like it should be much more than

16:48

that. But her career

16:50

path is truly amazing.

16:53

She was only the second African

16:55

American woman ever in the U. S. Senate

16:57

and the first of South Asian descent, and

16:59

the fact she's already the

17:01

VP at like fifty

17:04

six, like, it's incredible. But

17:06

the concessions to get there, and maybe,

17:09

honest point about coming from privilege,

17:11

maybe that has to deal with it. You know, maybe

17:13

that plays a big role in coming

17:16

from privilege. Despite being a person

17:18

of color, you can still be privileged in that

17:20

community as well. But then maybe

17:23

being out of touch for lack of a

17:25

better phrase, to the people

17:27

that you want to help. But I didn't mean to talk

17:29

about politics for so long, but it is really refreshing

17:31

to talk about it on the show. I mean, this

17:33

is what gets me off so like to

17:36

hear I

17:39

honestly, I love having these kinds of discussions

17:41

because it really is. It's the complete

17:43

framework for

17:45

for the types of things that we ideally

17:48

want to change. I mean,

17:50

like, you're exactly right, we shouldn't.

17:53

Oh, that's just how it is. Why

17:56

why can't we have been? And

17:58

I think once you start down that road of shrugging

18:00

your shoulders and accepting the

18:02

status quo. That's why we

18:05

have Democrats who

18:07

aren't even public officials shipped

18:09

on Medicare for all or like increasing

18:11

minimum wage or having you know,

18:14

like certain labor protections, like basic fucking

18:16

things that if you

18:18

are on this side of the spectrum like should support.

18:23

And I guess the last thing I'll say about this before

18:25

pivoting something else is that I

18:28

really dislike I loathe

18:30

the concept of celebrity so

18:33

much and seeing politicians

18:36

become that for people becoming people

18:38

that you stand or whatever, that is

18:40

really dangerous. And it's been that way for at

18:43

least I mean, I think Clinton

18:45

maybe started it because, like

18:47

he was very well load, but I think Barack Obama

18:49

in particular became like a

18:52

charismatic celebrity. He's a very charismatic

18:54

person. People forget that he's a war criminal,

18:56

but you know what, whatever. But

18:59

I think people are doing that with Harris.

19:01

I think people did bet with Warren. I think it was

19:04

very telling when she want SNL that she was more interested

19:06

in her image of celebrity and being

19:08

well liked versus actually helping

19:11

the progressive movement. But I'm

19:13

very disgusted with how celebrity

19:16

has taken over every element of our lives, including

19:18

politics, because we

19:21

shouldn't like liking

19:24

our politicians as people seems

19:27

to be the end goal for them versus

19:29

actually helping the

19:32

people that need help. Yeah, it's

19:34

like they're yeah, they're public servants.

19:36

I mean that should be at the forefront. I think

19:38

at all times, like these people are here

19:40

ideally supposed to be here to help the most

19:42

marginalized amount us. Yeah,

19:45

it's like why do we give a ship? You know, yeah, who's

19:47

who's Why are they going? Who's making a guest

19:49

appearance back on Jimmy Fallon exactly exactly.

19:52

And SNL is a perpetrator of that as

19:54

well. Like, you know, it's just celebrity

19:56

and pot and politics has become so a mess. It's just

19:58

really unfortunate to it play out

20:00

that way because I mean a

20:03

lot of my friends do it. They're like post like something

20:05

being like oh mom or like oh

20:07

like mom and dad for like like

20:10

whoever, you know what I mean. I think

20:12

it's just I don't think they're

20:14

realizing they're perpetuating that

20:17

societal obsession with

20:19

celebrity and with the concept

20:22

of celebrity and making that be the

20:24

end all be y'all, yeah,

20:26

I don't know. Yeah, and yeah, and I completely agree.

20:29

It's like we can we can celebrate those

20:31

individual accomplishments, or we can we

20:33

can celebrate those milestones,

20:36

but it all has to be like contextualized

20:38

exactly. But don't you love the concept

20:40

of a war criminal being a celebrity.

20:43

I mean it is fascinating

20:46

because it's so fun. You're like, he killed

20:49

babies, and then you're like, but

20:51

like he shot and made that three pointer.

20:54

Oh my god, that video was like

20:59

when it's like when Kobe died, that's

21:02

you know, the entire city was deeply

21:05

in mourning, and nobody

21:08

wanted to bring up that awkward fact of like, hey

21:11

remember that thing that happened rape accusation.

21:15

Yeah, I think there's a time and place for it.

21:17

I think a lot of people were mourning,

21:19

including his family, and his

21:21

family found out via the news. Like there's a

21:23

whole much bunch of really unfortunate

21:26

things that played out with Kobe's death. I think

21:28

also because his sister, sister,

21:30

his daughter. Yeah, like I think there was so

21:33

much. I mean, I agree, like people

21:35

were quick to get very upset if

21:37

you brought it up. But I mean, like it is a part

21:39

of his history, and it is a part of his history, and

21:41

no one's without no one should be without

21:43

being without criticism. Actually say,

21:45

but I also think it would

21:47

be different if he died of natural causes. I

21:49

should just say that. But it was a very traumatic

21:51

thing that happened, and then he influenced

21:54

so many people, and I think people,

21:56

I mean, I'm not defending like any

21:59

any of that. I think I think there's just a

22:01

time and place to be like, by the way, this

22:03

person, yeah yeah,

22:05

but I mean in terms of like celebrity

22:08

status overtaking, like

22:10

you know, this person is almost deified, and

22:14

yeah, I understand that. Well,

22:17

I for one enjoyed

22:20

the spiel um. But

22:23

nice little, nice little warm I know. Guess what?

22:25

Or we time for an ad break. Uh, we'll

22:27

be right back with Derek

22:30

and actually maybe get to know you who

22:32

knows? And

22:44

we're back with Derek.

22:46

Shall we get into his life? That's

22:49

going to see your life, Derek. Where are you from? Where

22:51

were you born? Where were you raised? So

22:55

I was born in

22:58

a suburb of Los Angeles. I

23:00

was born in Lamorada,

23:02

which is right next to Norwalk, So

23:04

that's mostly where my family is from. I grew up

23:07

out in the desert. I grew up in Palm Springs. Oh

23:09

I didn't know that about you. So

23:12

yeah, so like I had no idea for

23:14

example, like Ali a shock hat as a desert rat.

23:16

Also, and I like lived

23:19

very close to the business her father owned.

23:22

She's one of my dream guests. I want to like

23:24

here here talking hearing here talk about like the desert

23:26

and certain things. And she was mentioning her dad's

23:29

business. I was like, Oh, I know that place. It's

23:31

right next to the Del Taco that I used to go to. It's

23:33

amazing. One I fucking hate that place,

23:37

but too, I

23:39

weirdly light up when meeting

23:42

somebody who is from there.

23:44

It's like a familial thing you can be like, for

23:47

example, like me and my sisters, how like an intimate

23:49

knowledge of like growing up together, you know, like

23:52

only we understand certain things. I think it's the same

23:54

thing about where you like where you're from, only

23:56

only that professionally stands like that weird bathroom

23:59

at the Taco bell or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah,

24:01

that's exactly it, because like, uh,

24:04

because it's it's been gentrified

24:07

so heavily because of Coachella,

24:09

like I remember because

24:12

I was working at a record store, like the first

24:14

the second year that Coachella existed, and

24:17

tickets were I remember they were literally seventy

24:19

five. But I like,

24:21

I remember certain things and like how the city

24:23

was laid out and there were certain

24:26

touchstones that if you lived there during

24:28

this very specific time period as

24:31

a young person, like you knew and understood

24:34

that's interesting. And how did

24:36

your family get out to Palm Springs area?

24:39

My mom was very young when she got pregnant

24:42

and my ant ship dad

24:44

was not being a great dad

24:47

who was being ancient, So my

24:50

mom started dating this other dude. She moved

24:53

to the desert for him, and then my brother

24:55

was born. They had

24:57

like a twenty plus year relationship,

25:00

ship, got divorced, and then cut

25:02

to five years later, are dating again,

25:04

and it's the wildest thing. Really. Yeah,

25:08

oh yeah, I'm unloading all of this in therapy

25:10

every week. Um,

25:14

okay, can I ask what ethnicity your parents are?

25:16

Your biological parents? Yeah? Yeah, so

25:18

so we're Mexican American. But

25:20

I specifically like, don't

25:24

use I hate using national

25:26

identities, So I've been

25:29

like introducing myself as like, no, I'm native

25:31

or indigenous descent and like

25:33

really trying to understand and learn what that means

25:35

for me and my family. So like,

25:38

for example, I know where

25:41

my great great grandparents were born. I know

25:43

it's city in Mexico they were born in. I

25:45

generally know like the region, like

25:48

the tribal region that's in but that still

25:50

requires a lot of like research

25:53

into finding out, like, you know, what

25:55

were what were the reasons they potentially left what

25:58

you know, what does that mean in terms

26:01

of like reclaiming identity.

26:04

I brought this up on my podcast a

26:06

lot. It was kind of like if you are a

26:08

person with dual identities or

26:10

a lot of intersecting identities, you

26:12

often find yourself in the middle

26:15

because it's like you're not enough on one side

26:17

and you're not enough on the other side. Definitely,

26:19

especially if like you have immigrant parents and

26:21

you suddenly find yourself in the

26:24

States, it's like you're not authentic

26:27

enough to be wherever you're from,

26:29

and you're definitely not American, because

26:31

like white supremacy has made that abundantly clear.

26:34

So it's it's it leaves

26:36

you in kind of this nebulous area

26:38

of trying to figure out like who am I and

26:40

what does it mean to be what I am. Especially

26:43

frustrating because unfortunately,

26:45

we're very visual creatures, and if you lean

26:48

towards like looking like a certain half of yourself

26:50

and the other, that's when you get labeled as.

26:52

Like Barack Obama is a good example of that. He's

26:54

half white. But the way you present

26:56

yourself to the world is usually what like people

26:59

label you as, and

27:01

that maybe that is not even a conscious choice

27:03

on your part, Yeah, because people

27:05

just want to put you in a box. Growing

27:07

up with so many conflicts, not conflicting

27:09

identities, but like so many like being a ven

27:11

diagram of something and

27:14

being like why can't I just exist right here in the middle

27:16

versus like needing to go to one side. Yeah.

27:19

I think a lot of it also has to do

27:21

with the idea

27:23

of assimilation, because I

27:25

mean, that's kind of the expectation when

27:30

you know, our families moved

27:32

here. I'm third generation,

27:35

like my my grandparents were born here,

27:37

and if you go beyond that, like California

27:40

was basically Mexico. When

27:42

I would ask about like certain

27:45

things, particularly like like

27:47

my grandparents and their parents, my great grandparents,

27:50

or like things that had happened before, it

27:52

was kind of like, well, that doesn't matter because this

27:54

is where we are now, you know,

27:56

and like the linguid the linguistic

27:58

elements there too, like a lot of

28:00

third generation people don't speak Spanish,

28:03

and like, granted I've come, I've called

28:05

kind of full circle with it. Where I

28:08

was very like model minority

28:10

in my early teens, where

28:13

I was very much like distancing myself

28:15

from other Mexican people and

28:18

I was only dating like

28:21

white people. That evolved and

28:23

changed as so did my politics.

28:26

Um, interesting how that happens. Uh,

28:29

so that you know, all of that changed, and it was

28:31

like, now I'm embracing all of these

28:34

things, but I'm still

28:36

you know, not enough. So it was like,

28:38

well, I need to dig deeper than that,

28:41

because Spanish isn't even

28:43

our native language. So it's like, why the

28:45

funk am I beating myself up over not not

28:47

speaking it? Yeah, that's

28:50

an interesting point. I feel like I

28:52

also kind of did the same thing in the sense

28:54

that I tried to move

28:56

away from my like Persian

28:59

heritage and culture because

29:01

I felt like I wouldn't be um

29:04

actually, you know, I wouldn't fit in ither that you just gotta

29:06

assimilate a SAP. But then

29:08

like I just kind of hit a wall

29:10

with that at one point where I was like, oh fucking

29:13

cares. Everyone sucks anyone. It's like

29:15

people are gonna make you feel one way or another

29:17

no matter what, no matter how hard you

29:20

try, no matter you know, like what you

29:22

wear, like you'll always people will always

29:24

find a way to other you, because

29:26

that's the world we live in. Like it's

29:28

almost like a way we just try and make ourselves

29:31

feel better. And like I'm guilty of it too, like

29:33

I I other white people

29:35

all the time. Um, but

29:37

but it's true, like we find our ways where

29:39

you know, we're born and condition

29:42

to have prejudice inside our soul

29:44

and mind and body. You know, it's just the way it

29:46

goes you condition your you. You

29:49

basically have to teach yourself right,

29:51

which is unfortunate, but it just

29:53

is what it is. You'll always based

29:55

on where you were born or how you were raised,

29:57

you'll always have some negative

30:00

feeling towards something or someone.

30:03

But I would say, like to

30:05

your point a little earlier on that was just kind of waiting

30:08

to get this out. I don't know why. I just I'm

30:10

more of a listener at this point in my life

30:14

to what you were saying about like fitting in and just kind

30:16

of like being in the middle and not being

30:18

you know, you just can't find your place exactly.

30:20

Like. I struggled with that

30:22

so much because one, it's like and

30:25

this is also an interesting point to why you know, you're

30:27

not speaking your native or like just

30:30

native languages in general. When

30:32

I would travel through Iran, something

30:34

that really bothered me was people

30:38

who would be like, oh, you're from America,

30:40

but you speak Farcy so well, and

30:42

it's like, well, I'm

30:44

fluent because my parents

30:47

speaking like like there was this kind of disconnecting

30:49

me, like, yes, bitch, I'm American. Yes

30:51

I can speak FARSI Like, what's

30:54

your point? Like it would always annoy me. And

30:56

then I you know, like in Iran people going oh, that's

30:58

so cute, like your American. Wow,

31:00

we would have never known you're so good at hiding. And

31:02

it's like, I'm not hiding. I'm also Iranian.

31:05

Like this is just it is what it is. I'm American

31:07

and I'm Iranian. Whatever, move on

31:09

it. That's so interesting to me that the idea,

31:12

or at least the perception of

31:14

like hiding, and it's like in

31:17

any other context, if

31:20

you know it's not I'm

31:22

not hiding. I'm just I'm just I'm

31:24

where I belong. For lack of a better

31:26

phrase, Yeah yeah, but it's

31:28

never I mean too to

31:31

your point on it, I think it's like you're never

31:33

enough in anywhere you go, Like I think that's why

31:36

you feel so alien,

31:38

Like I know I say that all the time, but it's true.

31:40

Like in Syria, similar to to your

31:42

experience, I wasn't Syrian enough.

31:45

I was always the American one here.

31:47

Definitely didn't like, didn't feel American.

31:50

So like where do you go? Where do you And

31:52

that's more about nations and nationality,

31:55

but ethnicity is a huge part of that because

31:58

especially when you're like ethnically ambiguous,

32:00

it's you're even more of

32:02

these said the title,

32:04

You're even more of this like unplaceable

32:07

thing where people are like what are you and

32:09

you're like, I don't know, Actually you tell

32:11

me, you're going to tell me anyway. I

32:14

did have one instance where I really wanted

32:16

to punch this older woman in the face. This

32:18

is just kind of an aside in a way, but like I it

32:20

was like a my cousin's husband's

32:24

mother. They'll never listen to this so whatever

32:26

they live in America. She could not

32:29

get over my like American

32:33

accent I have while speaking far Seeing

32:35

I mean whatever, like I'm

32:37

from California, like I speak a certain

32:39

way and this has never been brought up

32:41

to me. No one ever really points out, like, wow, you have such a

32:43

like Californian accent when you speak Farsi,

32:46

because no one really cares if you can speak Farsi and

32:48

you can get your point across, no one's critiquing

32:50

you. But this woman would

32:53

not stop being like, oh my god,

32:55

that's so you know, she's saying

32:57

this and Farsi whatever. She's like, that's so cute

33:00

how you speak. Oh my god,

33:03

wow, he's just your accent is

33:05

so cute. And I literally

33:07

like this is that like a holiday dinner too? So I was

33:10

like I will fucking smack you in the face with this

33:12

bull holding all these pomegranates. Like I was

33:14

so irritated, Like I

33:16

was just like, what what do you want for me?

33:18

Like can you just be happy I'm communicating to

33:20

you like yes, I

33:22

haven't act said I was born and raised in America,

33:25

Like what do you want from me? I could speak

33:27

the language I took, like I

33:29

made you know, there isn't I could have easily

33:32

not been able to speak the language had I just been

33:34

like, no, Mom and dad, I'm speaking in English.

33:36

But like I made an effort all my life to continue

33:39

to know Farcy and speak Farcy to my parents

33:42

because I actually, like I like talking

33:44

about people in public. Now I'm just joking, but it's

33:48

a big part of it. But like, it was

33:50

just so irritating to me that she was just belittling

33:52

me in this way. And this was like two or three years

33:54

ago, like I was probably twenty seven, Like,

33:57

you dumb bitch, I'm an adult, Like,

33:59

stop paid tradizing me in this way. Like

34:01

I don't go like a bitch, what do you old

34:03

country? Like? What do you s your problem?

34:06

I'm sorry, I just hate that kind of stuff. It's

34:08

like very fun people appropriately,

34:10

like you don't need to be acting like that. Yeah,

34:14

I hope she does hear this. What

34:17

do we know she's a listener? Yeah, I'm

34:20

gonna hunt her down. I'm gonna force her to listen

34:22

to it. And then I want to spill, like you said a bull

34:24

of pomegranates on a shirt. Yes, yeah,

34:28

that's not going to go out speaking of which

34:30

I want a pomegranate. Now. OK,

34:33

yeah, let's go back to you a little

34:35

bit. I really want to get into where

34:38

you currently are right now. Maybe we can get

34:40

into that in the third block eventually,

34:43

Yeah, but can I think I think it's

34:45

going to be a longer story than I'm anticipating. But

34:48

when did you realize that you wanted

34:51

to be a performer and

34:53

use your voice in a different way. I

34:56

think a lot of people of color, at least maybe I'm

34:58

projecting in my experience, was like, A, I

35:00

don't know. There's a lot of steps into finding that, especially

35:03

when your identities in question. For a lot of your youth

35:05

for example, for like a lot of my work and

35:08

a lot of my poetry, a lot of my films. I never

35:10

really acknowledged that I was Syrian because

35:12

I was just like, I'm not searing enough. Did

35:14

you have that with your pursuits?

35:17

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. So

35:19

the preface myself growing up,

35:22

I didn't have a lot of freedom

35:24

or choice. The household that I grew

35:26

up in was very much like, this

35:28

is what you're gonna do, and you don't

35:30

really have any other say. So

35:34

I could relate to that. Yeah,

35:36

so it was like like I grew up playing

35:38

sports, not because I wanted to, but because it

35:40

was like that, you're playing sports now. I

35:43

don't even know why I went to college. I don't

35:45

think I wanted to at all. Like there are things

35:47

like like I thought I wanted to be

35:49

a doctor for a minute, the lawyer, just because

35:52

I thought that was what I was supposed to do. Like, you

35:54

know, it's I mean, I could talk. There

35:56

are so many layers of the

35:58

indoctrination of that and like feeling

36:00

a little bit controlled in retrospect. But where

36:03

where are you in the like do you have

36:05

siblings? Where are you and the little child?

36:08

I know in

36:11

my family, my older sibling is like the golden

36:13

child. She did everything she was supposed

36:15

to do. She's a doctor, married to a doctor,

36:18

as far as standards of beauty are concerned,

36:20

beautiful, like she's lighter skin than

36:23

me, all this other stuff. You know. It's just like I

36:25

could never meet those

36:27

standards. And I was the middle kid, and

36:30

my younger sister was much more supportive

36:32

creatively than I was, So they

36:35

sucked me up, man, like it

36:37

was it was hard. It was hard, yea we

36:40

wouldn't be the artist that we are without trauma.

36:43

And I'm saying this as someone that like, I

36:45

love my parents more than any people in

36:47

the world, but they also agree that

36:51

I wasn't very supported for

36:53

a lot of my life and the way that I needed

36:55

to be, and that was only because they were doing what they

36:57

thought was best as far as what they

36:59

considered excess to be and what they

37:01

considered stability to be. And

37:04

I think they also a lot of immigrant

37:06

families, a lot of people of color parents,

37:09

they don't know how to deal with mental health issues, and

37:12

I was kind of that first child

37:14

for them that presented

37:16

so many So I think there's

37:19

a lot of reasons why I

37:21

had the experience I did. But I

37:23

do think like a lot of my humor,

37:26

a lot of my art stems from

37:28

a lot of things that maybe

37:31

classify as trauma, and

37:34

so it's like a good way for me to frame

37:36

it that way as an adult. Thankfully,

37:39

like we have the language and

37:42

now are now understanding kind of the

37:45

emotional and mental impacts

37:48

being raised how we were raised has like

37:51

I'm super excited for

37:54

when I or if, when or if I

37:56

have kids, like being able to take

37:59

that knowledge with them and then their

38:01

children, Like, their children are going to be so fucking

38:04

set in terms of being able to talk about

38:06

mental health, talk about their feelings, de

38:08

stigmatize, and process what toxic

38:11

masculinity is. What you know,

38:13

um, that kind of internalized white supremacy

38:16

is, Like, I'm I'm super excited

38:18

for them, Like that's going to be amazing.

38:21

I'm excited too, I'm excited

38:23

for you. So so I

38:25

wasn't given a whole lot of choice. So when

38:29

I did my first play in eighth

38:31

grade, because I took I took theater as an elective,

38:34

I stopped doing band. I was just kind

38:36

of over it. Were you allowed

38:38

to do that? Well?

38:41

It was what was like, I just didn't

38:43

like it anymore and I just wanted

38:45

to try something different. I had no idea

38:47

what to expect. I had no idea that it would

38:49

like lead to anything. It was just this

38:52

is something different, and I need a class. I need to

38:54

fill up a class. So when I did my first play,

38:56

I like got bit by the bug, as it

38:58

were, and it was it was like, oh

39:00

my god, there's an environment where

39:03

I'm the only person making active

39:05

decisions on what I want to do.

39:08

Even if it's in this controlled environment

39:11

where you're you're given the script or you're

39:13

given whatever in the materials, or you

39:15

know, suggestions that if it's an improp

39:17

scene or whatever. But it's like I

39:20

get to make each and every decision for

39:22

each and every single moment. It blew

39:24

the doors off of anything that I knew. So

39:27

after that, I played high school football

39:29

for a year and then I got hurt, but

39:32

I started theater in as

39:34

a freshman, did it all the way through high school,

39:37

did every playoff possibly could. And

39:39

when the time came to like apply

39:41

for schools and go to college and stuff, one

39:44

of my teachers, amazing instructor,

39:46

taught me a lot. She was really kind of

39:48

pushing me to go towards a conservatory,

39:51

and I wasn't sure

39:54

that that was what I

39:56

wanted one because it was,

39:58

you know, I was a fucking eight and your old kid who

40:01

like was just discovering like,

40:03

oh you have agency, now, discovering

40:06

what that is, so you know, going fucking wild.

40:09

Uh, But then too, like not

40:12

having anybody being

40:14

able to guide me through the college experience,

40:17

being like a first generation college

40:19

student and not getting adequately

40:22

prepared for like the

40:24

applications or like the process

40:27

of having to do all this ship and

40:30

I remember just being so fucking frustrated

40:33

by like FAFTSA, by all

40:35

these applications fat gives me

40:37

PTSD even say, and

40:40

like not not knowing and

40:42

being so frustrated. I still to this like

40:44

just bureaucracy. If there's

40:46

anything that that like sets me off, it's

40:49

being inconvenienced by bureaucracy.

40:52

Are you my dad? So

40:55

you know? So community college was a lot

40:58

of fun for me, So I

41:00

ended up wanting to go to the Conservatory after I checked

41:02

it out at the tour. I liked it, but

41:04

my mom was like, I don't

41:06

know, you know, you really should

41:09

think of something practical, and I was

41:11

getting that whole she feel. I

41:13

felt deflated because

41:16

I had one a couple of

41:18

awards from like the Desert Theater Cat

41:21

the Desert Theater CAT and

41:23

I don't remember, but there's basically a board

41:26

in the Desert for all theatrical

41:28

productions. They do community,

41:30

they do professional, and they do like local

41:33

and high school theater, and they

41:35

like make nominations. It's basically like the Oscars

41:38

for local acting. And

41:40

I had won a couple awards from them, and so

41:43

I was feeling really really confident, and I

41:45

was like got second place in the Shakespeare

41:47

competition, and I was feeling so

41:49

fucking good about like what I

41:51

might be capable of, only

41:54

to like feel super fucking deflated

41:56

by like, well, maybe you should do something. I

41:58

had a very similar experience long

42:01

story shot before we go to the outbreak. Basically,

42:04

when I found photography and art in

42:06

high school, I was obsessed

42:08

with it and I loved writing, but

42:10

I like basically lived in my high

42:13

school's dark room for the last two years of high

42:15

school. And one of the most

42:17

pivotal moments for me was getting

42:19

a five on my ap photography

42:21

like portfolio. I was really really proud

42:24

of that portfolio. And I really want

42:26

to go to art school. I really really want

42:28

to go to art school. And my parents

42:30

kind of shot like shooting that dream down of

42:33

like the same kind of like it's not practical.

42:36

I really want to go either to Chicago or New

42:38

York. And I was only allowed to apply to

42:40

schools within California. And this

42:42

is I'm very privileged to have gone to college.

42:44

I really recognized that, but that

42:47

lack of agency, I really it really

42:49

resonates with me. Your story in a way that like

42:51

the highest most proud moment I felt

42:53

as an eighteen year old. Seventeen year old

42:56

with that portfolio was completely

42:58

irrelevant. Wedn't do anything

43:01

with it. Yeah, it's like the biggest

43:03

and most pivotal moment for you. It's

43:06

like you still hit a ceiling that

43:09

prevents you from like finding

43:11

out what's beyond that. Yeah, I had this

43:13

dream in my head of being this artist, and

43:16

maybe there's a timeline and where

43:18

I was more like when

43:21

I where I did do that, But I

43:23

don't know. It's a little bit tragic in retrospect,

43:25

but it didn't make us who we are. And

43:29

yeah, um, we're gonna take one more ad

43:31

break. We'll be right back. Okay,

43:42

we're back. I'm curious you mentioned

43:45

how you're excited about your children

43:48

and your children's children being more well

43:50

versed as far as toxic mess the needs

43:52

concerned is that pursuit

43:54

Does that influence while you have a podcast

43:56

called Mansplain Yourself. Yeah,

43:59

so the idea came around.

44:01

I was having a lunch with a friend of mine who is who's

44:03

a transman, and we were talking

44:06

about experiences how

44:08

you know, we kind of became who we were and

44:11

he's the son of

44:13

Sri Lankan immigrants and he had

44:15

found himself or at least American

44:18

identity through hip hop. And we

44:20

were talking about that, and two

44:22

hours went by to be blew by,

44:24

and at the end of the conversation, I was like, we probably

44:26

should have recorded that. It would have been a really interesting podcast,

44:29

and that idea that seed had

44:32

been there for a while, and I was trying to get him on

44:34

board for for a while so we

44:36

could do this thing together. But

44:38

I mean, fortunately for him, he's a he's

44:41

an awesome comedian actor. His

44:43

career had started taking off. Uh,

44:45

he produced a one man show in New

44:48

York. So I asked him, like,

44:50

hey, I still really want to do this thing. Would

44:52

it be okay if I like took the ball and ran with

44:54

it. He's like, yeah, of course, please like

44:56

go that would I think would be really I

44:59

think it's a great idea. Run with it. And

45:01

at the time, like I had nothing, so

45:03

I was working, uh nonprofit

45:05

work, making fucking minimum wage, we're

45:07

making very close to it. I didn't have a computer,

45:10

I didn't have a mixing board, I didn't have microphones,

45:12

And so my my goal at that time was

45:14

like, let me save up enough money to be able to

45:16

get this, get these things that I need and

45:19

it. It honestly took about a year

45:21

and a half for me to get in

45:23

a position where like I could start

45:25

doing this stuff, and I met up. I met

45:27

a guy who ended up being my producer for it, uh,

45:31

David Robinson. He was like,

45:33

hey, Man, I run a political podcast.

45:35

I think your your voices really

45:38

necessary and awesome. Would you want

45:40

to be a guest? I was like, yeah, sure, So I went and checked

45:42

out his set up and he had a great setup, and I asked.

45:44

I was like, hey, how much would you be

45:46

interested in producing anybody else's

45:48

He was like yeah, So we worked out

45:50

something and that was where Man's plaintial

45:52

started literally out of his apartment.

45:55

Well, you never know who's going

45:57

to help you out, you know, you never know. Yeah.

46:00

Granted, I haven't been able to record an episode this

46:02

whole time, dealing with a lot of ship outside

46:05

of COVID, But I'm really excited. I have

46:07

ten episodes that I have yet

46:09

to release that I'm I'm going

46:11

to release hopefully sooners

46:14

They're going to be bangers. I can feel

46:16

it. Yeah, But the core

46:18

idea was just like, whether we talk

46:20

about it or not, all of us

46:23

are weighed down by the

46:25

expectation that has been placed

46:28

upon us to like behave certain

46:30

ways to do certain things.

46:32

And those can be like self

46:35

imposed or they can be placed on us by like

46:38

our you know, parents, loved ones, caregivers,

46:40

all that kinds of stuff. So the idea was,

46:42

like, I want to talk to people who

46:45

who have kind of figured it out or

46:47

at least are in the process

46:49

of figuring it out. Asked them,

46:51

like, one, what sucked

46:53

about it? What what have you learned

46:56

since then? You know, how have you kind

46:58

of grown into the person that you are

47:00

today. It's important not

47:02

just to have visible

47:05

men doing quote unquote good work. I

47:07

think it's important to also talk about

47:10

the ship that we're ashamed of and the

47:12

ship that we're not proud of and

47:14

to take ownership. Like, hey,

47:16

so this was me being a twenty year old

47:18

sunk up. Here's all here's

47:20

what that looks like. But here's what

47:23

it did for me. And here's why I'm doing

47:25

the things that I'm doing now. I Mean that's Accountability

47:28

is like everything at this point, like

47:31

truly, like what we were saying earlier about Kamala

47:33

Harris, like if she truly just came out

47:35

and was like, this is where I fucked

47:38

up. This is where I let my

47:40

own, you know whatever that

47:42

was guiding her like kind of take over what

47:45

I could see beyond like right or wrong, like

47:47

just like say it, just

47:49

say like this is this is how

47:52

I was being shady or this is how I

47:54

just like was being ignorant, Like

47:56

I just didn't know, and now I do know

47:59

because I learned. I listened, I read a

48:01

book. I don't know. I read an Internet article,

48:03

I read a blog post. I don't know. However people

48:05

learn, I don't kind of learn, you know whatever Twitter,

48:08

I read a tweet. But I

48:10

mean, accountability is huge, and

48:12

especially when you recognize

48:15

you come from a place of privilege, which

48:17

is like being assists man, you know, like that's

48:19

that's a that's a point of privilege, and you've benefited

48:22

from patriarchy and all

48:24

of that. But too kind

48:26

of similar to white people needing to undo

48:29

white supremacy and recognizing it, the people

48:31

that benefit need to be the ones to reconcile

48:34

and recognize how they benefit from whatever

48:36

it is they benefit from so we can move

48:38

forward. It can be on the shoulders

48:40

of women and or people

48:43

that aren't men. You know, it's Yeah,

48:46

So I really appreciate that you had

48:48

that initiative to make that

48:50

podcast, and I'm excited to see the episodes that are going

48:52

to come out. And I mean

48:54

this year has been a journey,

48:57

to say the leadst for every single person. I'm

49:00

excited for it. To cut your

49:02

pockets to come back, But you also shouldn't I mean

49:05

taking a little hiatus that's self carer.

49:08

Yeah, it feels

49:10

weird to it, like, except praise

49:13

for it because it feels necessary.

49:15

We also get praise for the show, and when

49:17

we didn't really set out to be pioneers,

49:20

it just so happens to be that way. Yeah,

49:23

I just feel weird, like it feels like a

49:25

thing I should be doing. Yeah, I can

49:27

see that. I still think it's cool whatever, I'm going to

49:29

praise it. Okay, we

49:31

still think it's cool. But you gave us a little

49:34

nugget before we started recording. But

49:36

tell us where you are and why

49:38

you are there. So right now I

49:41

am in Portland, Oregon. A

49:43

friend of mine asked me fairly

49:46

recently, would you ever consider

49:48

being a sperm downer, and

49:51

I had to take some time with that question. I

49:54

was maybe projecting a lot

49:56

of my own insecurities into

49:59

this thing because of

50:01

a lot of the things that I experienced with both

50:03

my biological father and my stepdad, and

50:05

I needed to really kind of reconcile, like

50:08

what one, what is being asked of me here?

50:11

And two? How do

50:13

I see myself participating in this thing

50:16

or at least supporting this thing in a way

50:19

where I'm not getting in the way

50:22

of what needs to happen. And so

50:24

the she's not pregnant yet, but the

50:26

mom and I have had a lot of conversations. We've talked

50:28

a lot about it, and so ultimately,

50:31

based on those conversations, I decided to say

50:33

yes. So I flew up a couple of

50:35

months ago to make my donations, and

50:37

this month there giving

50:40

her my sample. So they're, you know, turkey basing

50:42

her yes

50:45

and saminating. But you know, I gotta go

50:47

with the funny, the funny phrase. So

50:50

she asked me to be there with her. So

50:53

I'm up here chilling for a couple of days.

50:56

Our appointment is on Saturday. So

50:58

it's a weird and really interesting

51:01

thing to have happened

51:04

because it's like, you know, we're not in a romantic relationship,

51:06

so the idea of having a child

51:09

one scares of shit out of me. But like

51:12

it's almost easier in

51:14

this context because the

51:16

doors being left open for me and

51:18

a very like, you know, let's

51:21

let's both understand that, like this is her

51:23

baby, but

51:26

if there is room for you to be a cool uncle,

51:28

if if you so choose and

51:30

for me, like that doesn't

51:32

set off my like my internal

51:34

sort of like we need to panic, we need to panic, we need

51:36

to panic. Yeah, I'm as someone

51:39

who's terrified of I've always been very

51:41

afraid of the potential

51:43

of being a parent or and or motherhood.

51:46

I don't think it's for me even now. Still,

51:49

even though everyone's like do you feel different at

51:51

x y z age didn't happen, it

51:54

still terrifies me. So I don't think it's for me. But

51:57

the fact that your friend thought of you

51:59

and was like, yeah, he is someone that

52:02

I want this to be, Like, I'm

52:04

trying to find the words, but it's very

52:06

amazing. Very it's creating

52:09

a bond that lasts

52:11

as long as you know that

52:14

that lasts a lifetime. I

52:16

was really flattered that she would ask. You

52:19

know, we both run in the same queer

52:21

POC circles. So a lot

52:24

of the men that she knows are

52:26

HIV positive, so they the

52:28

option wasn't there for them to donate,

52:31

and so and maybe because I

52:33

have poor boundaries, I don't know. But

52:36

for me, I've I try to

52:39

operate under if I have

52:42

the ability to do something for somebody,

52:45

I don't feel obligated. But it

52:47

feels like an easy yes, if

52:50

that makes sense. Yeah,

52:53

I mean I don't think that has anything to import boundaries

52:55

because like I mean boundaries that

52:59

I don't know about that because you know you you

53:01

are, You've clearly spoken to this

53:03

person and you know this

53:05

person and if

53:09

like I don't know, I struggle with that even

53:11

being like a boundary, because it's a it's a choice

53:14

you two made together to move forward

53:16

with. So it's like I feel like putting like being

53:18

like, oh, it's poor boundaries, Like I don't know, it's kind

53:20

of like you don't need it. That's to me.

53:22

It's like, Okay, if she was and

53:25

she was being like I need you to

53:27

have this or whatever, like give

53:29

me your sperm, I'll have the baby and

53:32

then if she came back after and

53:34

was like and I'm gonna need this much money

53:37

from you and then blah blah blah, Like then it's like, oh,

53:39

you're crossing a boundary because that's not what we discussed.

53:42

But I feel like looking at your friend and being

53:44

like, you know, we've had conversations about this.

53:46

You know, we have decided to go through this together

53:48

and we understand our like game plan

53:51

if you will. I mean that doesn't

53:53

mean you have poor boundaries. It just means that

53:55

you have come up with a plan that

53:57

you feel good with. Well. I don't mean

53:59

specific in like this context. I

54:01

mean just like in general how I like,

54:04

it's like, if I have the capacity to do something, I'm

54:06

gonna do it. I don't think that's

54:08

poor boundaries either. I think you're a smart guy.

54:11

I mean that has led to a lot of

54:13

interesting conversations and my therapist

54:15

recommending Burnet Brown. So there's something

54:17

nice. I always come

54:19

back to Burnet Brown. That's every therapist

54:22

is like, anyway, I think I'm done here, you should

54:24

check out around. Because my

54:26

therapist has literally said that to me, and I

54:28

was like, bitch, what am I paying you for? Why?

54:31

Why do you just go suggests I talk to

54:33

it or not talk to you, but like read and listen to a

54:35

self help X but like, why don't you

54:37

do it? I don't

54:39

know what I'm triggered by that I

54:42

can relate to, like the gist that you're saying,

54:44

like I have no filters, and I think people

54:47

can misinterpret that as a lack of boundaries,

54:49

but I really think it's a strength. What I

54:51

think maybe you and not maybe we're talking

54:53

about the same thing here, but being

54:56

I mean, I hate this phrase, but

54:59

wearing your heart on your sleeve, Like I

55:01

think that's like kind of the same idea as having no

55:03

boundaries, having no filter. I used

55:05

to think it was a weakness

55:08

when I was growing up. You're

55:12

made to feel to weakness, You're made to feel you're too

55:15

sensitive or whatever. But the older I get, the more

55:17

I realize it's a strength and people

55:20

the can't the candor that

55:22

that we have is so

55:25

valuable and and I really

55:27

cherished this part of myself now that I used

55:29

to really try my best to turn off. And

55:32

I don't think your friend would have asked you if you didn't

55:34

have that quality about you, Like you seem

55:37

like someone even though this is like the first real conversation

55:39

we've had. You seem like someone who

55:42

wears themselves very authentically in the world,

55:44

you know, like this is who you are, and

55:47

I don't know, it's refreshing because especially

55:50

this industry, it's so there's

55:52

such a facade everywhere, and so

55:55

I appreciate the way

55:58

you operate because I think a big part

56:00

of why we've been able to talk for over an hour very

56:02

candidly about so many other things is

56:04

because you present that to

56:06

the world and you like invite that kind of welcoming

56:09

conversation and like Aura, So

56:11

I think I think that's probably why your

56:13

friend thought of you for that. The more

56:15

I think about it, and maybe I'm coming to the conclusion as I'm

56:18

talking out loud, but you know what I mean, like, yeah, well,

56:20

thank you for saying that. Like I

56:22

I definitely try to put that

56:24

forward. The way that I

56:27

have kind of come to that is like I spent

56:29

so many years in self

56:31

loathing and spent so many years like

56:34

chasing approval that

56:36

I wore myself out, you know, and

56:38

you kind of like you

56:41

hit a plateau where it's either

56:44

you're gonna break or something else. Is going to

56:46

break. And I hit that point and

56:48

I had I had to fucking change,

56:52

And so I definitely

56:54

saw the benefit of, like,

56:56

like you said, like being more heart

56:58

in your sleeve, like being very sort

57:00

of like I'm not playing a character

57:02

here, or I'm not like trying to be

57:05

cool or trying anything in particular

57:07

other than like trying to be more sincere.

57:10

I think sincerity is cool.

57:13

I think liking the things that you like,

57:15

you know, that's I don't believe in guilty pleasure.

57:17

So it's like, oh, this is my guilty pleasure. No, if

57:20

if Disney musicals are

57:22

your guilty pleasure, fucking enjoy

57:24

it. Don't apologize for that. The

57:26

word guilty yeasure, just pleasure.

57:29

Yeah, Because it's like we were all taught

57:31

at a certain point socially that

57:34

like some things as adults

57:36

you should be embarrassed of, and

57:39

I don't want to operate that way. Yeah.

57:41

I think, especially as people of color, back

57:44

to a point we made earlier, we have

57:46

this ingrained I mean white

57:48

supremacy but also colorism that like whiteness

57:51

is the ideal I should strive to be, that

57:54

I should strive to date, that I should

57:56

be attracted to that, and I think that also

57:58

plays a part in it. Like I

58:01

love Arabic music. Sometimes

58:03

when it would come on in public and

58:05

people would like react weird to it or

58:08

my parents house or whatever, I

58:10

internalized that and like little I remember

58:12

those microaggressions very well. But

58:15

I think a big part of embracing

58:17

ourselves is realizing, like, yeah,

58:19

just it's the prejudices we have

58:21

against ourselves is something we have to

58:24

undo and when we do that,

58:26

it's going to be like a lifelong process, but like

58:29

we'll be better for it. Yeah, absolutely,

58:31

Yeah, there are a lot of rewards and

58:33

being genuine and like

58:36

being visible. I worked at the LGBT

58:38

Center certain part of my time

58:40

in in my Minute, my twelve

58:42

years of nonprofit work, and the thing that

58:44

pushed need to like one come out

58:47

and to sort of embrace

58:50

not my sexuality, not just my sexuality,

58:52

but like my how I wanted to present

58:54

and how I wanted to exist was

58:57

being around kids like these

58:59

were These were too negers. These

59:01

were fourteen to twenty

59:04

three year old kids, and

59:06

so some of them, you know, some of

59:08

them were trans some of them had

59:10

been like kicked out of their homes, some

59:12

of them had had run away. Some

59:15

of them, you know, didn't have any

59:17

other safe place to go where they could

59:20

be who they were, and being

59:22

around them, it was kind of like, these

59:24

kids have risked absolutely everything to

59:27

be the most genuine version of themselves,

59:30

need being like in this comfortable

59:32

space, Why can't I do

59:35

that? Hmm? Yeah,

59:38

I think coming from a place of authenticity and embracing

59:41

that is a journey.

59:43

And the fear, at least for me, is

59:46

when you are that open,

59:49

you have the risk of being taken advantage of and

59:52

people people kind of especially

59:55

I mean, I mean, I guess it's in across

59:57

industries, but especially when

59:59

you're queer, when you're your person of color,

1:00:01

when you're just trying to live your authentic

1:00:04

self, you get taken advantage of, for lack of

1:00:06

a better word, and recognizing

1:00:08

that the good is worth the bad and

1:00:11

staying true to yourself is ultimately the

1:00:14

journey of this life. Like I don't know if you

1:00:16

know anything about I'm obsessed

1:00:18

with Carl Young and individuation

1:00:21

is something that he talks about a lot, where it's like the

1:00:23

whole purpose of life is to become

1:00:26

the person that you're supposed to be. For

1:00:28

for very to to like to

1:00:30

boil it down very simply. But

1:00:33

I believe that I

1:00:36

didn't know that was young, but now I I that

1:00:38

is exactly what I would start

1:00:40

with recommend looking into individuation

1:00:43

in particular as far as he's he's concerned,

1:00:45

I really like his interpretations of dreams

1:00:47

as well as far as psychiatry

1:00:49

and psychology is concerned. I just really

1:00:51

got into psychology and psychiatry as a kid

1:00:53

and a teenager because I was I

1:00:56

was struggling so much and I wanted to understand

1:00:58

it better, and that kind of led me out the

1:01:00

rabbit hole of young and like really as

1:01:02

an adult reading so much of his work.

1:01:05

But in a lot of ways, we

1:01:07

are the only constant in this in

1:01:09

our lives. And maybe this is

1:01:11

coming from like someone that's been perpetually single

1:01:14

for the majority of my life, but like, we're

1:01:16

always going to be our best partners. We have

1:01:18

to be kind to ourselves to

1:01:20

be that good partner. And

1:01:23

I don't want to be a partner with a

1:01:25

fraud, you know. I feel that way a lot.

1:01:28

I have imposter syndrome all the time,

1:01:30

but I'm working on it, and I want to be the best partner

1:01:33

for myself. I want to be the best version of myself

1:01:35

for me, not for whatever

1:01:38

fucking person. No, I

1:01:40

I see where you're where you're coming from, and I honestly

1:01:43

I appreciate you being that willing

1:01:45

to kind of open up and share that. I

1:01:48

definitely relate to a lot of what you said, and

1:01:50

you know, there's been plenty of memes. But it's like

1:01:52

the most important relationship we

1:01:54

have as the relationship we have with ourselves. And

1:01:56

like that doesn't mean that those relationships

1:01:59

are perfect. I mean, you still struggle

1:02:01

with things. I still definitely struggle with

1:02:03

things, but it's like we're

1:02:05

learning how to have

1:02:08

those relationships in a way where we're

1:02:10

not like impeded by

1:02:12

those things, but we can still like

1:02:16

we can still live our lives and

1:02:18

go on our day to day because there are plenty

1:02:21

of things that I can dwell on for like days

1:02:23

or weeks if I let myself get there. Yeah,

1:02:26

you're gonna have to come back because we're talking

1:02:29

to you. It's so easy and so lovely.

1:02:32

Thank you so much for coming onto

1:02:35

the show sharing your story. I can't wait

1:02:37

to have you back and talk more. Until

1:02:39

then, where can our audience

1:02:41

find you on the internet and otherwise,

1:02:44

where do you live your social theory number exciting

1:02:46

my blood type? Um, so I

1:02:49

am on all the social media's under

1:02:51

just my name, So Derek Limos to

1:02:54

ours, I c k like

1:02:56

oil Derricks and then Limos

1:02:59

exactly spelled like lemons, but no end

1:03:02

and where can people find our request

1:03:04

sperm And I'm just joking. Wait,

1:03:08

wait, explain yourself. I mean that probably

1:03:11

I was going to say that probably tender would be a good place

1:03:14

perfect or grinder. So

1:03:17

um. For some reason, the older episodes

1:03:19

aren't showing up on Apple podcasts,

1:03:22

but I do have it listed on SoundCloud to

1:03:24

all twenty three episodes are currently They're

1:03:27

going to be uploading ten more soon and

1:03:29

I'm launching a new podcast very

1:03:32

very soon. But I have to get all the like artwork

1:03:34

and social media stuff set up

1:03:36

for it. That's very exciting. But it's gonna

1:03:38

be a whole lot of fun, completely different

1:03:41

and very much just centered around like let's

1:03:43

talk about art, let's talk about movies, let's talk about

1:03:45

this thing and how we can kind

1:03:47

of give our own little spin on it. That's cool.

1:03:50

I can't wait, I cannot wait. Check

1:03:52

it out. Yeah, check out Derek's

1:03:55

handles on everything. We'll have them all link below.

1:03:57

Obviously on the show notes, but

1:04:00

listen to Man's playing yourself catch yourself up before

1:04:02

the new ones come out. Yeah, you're a joy

1:04:04

to talk to. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank

1:04:07

you for taking the time to do the show. Yeah,

1:04:09

you're busy, busy man, have a good

1:04:12

time in Portland. Man, Like this is a pivotal moment

1:04:14

for you, Like this is. I mean, I think it's

1:04:16

really cool what you're doing. So live in the

1:04:18

moment and Britain and recognize

1:04:20

how pivotal it is for not only you but for your friend.

1:04:23

It's really cool to talk to you. Yeah.

1:04:25

No, just thank you both. Like we've

1:04:27

been wanting to do this thing for a while and I'm glad

1:04:29

that we finally got to. Yeah, long

1:04:32

time. I'm

1:04:35

saying, No, I should have

1:04:37

cut you off. I love your singing. Thank

1:04:39

you. I

1:04:41

remember when the star this is I should wrap

1:04:44

us up, wrap us out, But I will say I remember when Stars

1:04:46

Born came out. You were really into singing

1:04:49

the song from that movie, and I made

1:04:51

my life. What

1:04:56

if I really could hit it? I hadn't literally

1:04:59

until maybe this year, so you

1:05:02

singing it was always the only thing I knew about the movie

1:05:04

for a long time, the

1:05:07

part where she hits that part if you know

1:05:09

what I mean, Yes, I wish I could hit

1:05:11

those notes. Yeah, every

1:05:13

time I hear it. I liked your bottle. There's

1:05:17

a there's a video go look this up of

1:05:20

a fucking Lady Gaga acappelling

1:05:23

it at the fucking scripper read

1:05:25

of a Star is Born. And she's like and this is like

1:05:27

kind of where I would do a little bit of this and then just

1:05:30

singing that song. And everyone's like,

1:05:32

dude, and I'm like, well, what

1:05:34

do you expect when you had Lady Gaga

1:05:38

in the room. Talent is

1:05:40

talent, baby, I'm

1:05:42

an agent, so I'm like talent to tell baby?

1:05:46

Um okay. Not being said

1:05:48

to ethnically ambiguous ethnically

1:05:50

and A N B on Twitter, ethnic M big

1:05:53

A and b I G on Instagram. I'm

1:05:55

Sharine shuro Hero on Instagram

1:05:57

and shiro Hero six six six on Twitter.

1:06:00

I'm just at annam posting on

1:06:02

quicktop who until

1:06:05

next time, I'm serious, listen to me explaining

1:06:07

yourself. Thank you so much, Jared, thank thank

1:06:09

you. Ethnically

1:06:26

Ambiguous is a production of I Heart Radio.

1:06:29

For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit

1:06:31

the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts,

1:06:33

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H