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1:00

W view our podcast. Boston.

1:10

Mercedes. Do me a favor and give us

1:12

what we would call so by do so who you are,

1:14

Where you are, what you do. My. Name

1:16

is most others Gonzalez was on.

1:18

I'm based in Albuquerque, New Mexico

1:20

and I'm a writer and researcher

1:22

and I've worked across different areas

1:24

of media: podcasting, editorial, social media

1:26

out that. And. You're a real

1:28

human. I am a real

1:30

human. And co me to.

1:37

Real. Humans myself and Mercedes

1:39

Gonzalez buzz on were talking

1:41

about an essay that Marcellus

1:43

wrote for the writer and

1:45

Friedman's newsletter. The essay was

1:47

about an influencer named Mchale

1:49

a Celso. Also. Known

1:51

as Lil Mccaleb Little Mchale,

1:53

it has two hundred and

1:55

seventy six thousand subscribers on

1:57

You Tube. Accept the canyons. In

2:00

two point six million

2:02

followers on Instagram. Do

2:04

I know it's going on? Know that

2:06

a third? that mean for she's

2:09

had brand deals with B M

2:11

W, and Calvin Klein, she's interviewed

2:13

celebrities and she's only nineteen years

2:16

old. kind of. Unlike

2:18

more said as Mchale, it

2:20

is not a real human.

2:23

She's a fictional creation from

2:25

a virtual reality and a

2:27

I Media studio call the

2:30

Bread not broad, broad, virtual.

2:32

Influencers added something more popular because

2:34

of their terminate of souls towards

2:36

younger audiences. Just a few years

2:38

ago people were speculating that virtual influencers

2:41

like Mckellar for going to be the

2:43

future and of I am a brand

2:45

that once the audience to the great

2:47

ambassador because they look up to or

2:49

or they're fascinated by her But that

2:51

never happened. Today. We're going

2:53

to find out why. From

3:00

Wb you are in Boston. I'm

3:02

Bembridge Johnson, Roland So load today

3:04

and this is endless thread Today

3:07

we're talking to. Reset is about

3:09

the mystery behind Lil Mchale as

3:11

origin story and why she thinks

3:13

will make a list. So.

3:22

Can we start off by having. You.

3:24

Read the beginning of your essay: The Death of

3:26

the Artificial Influencer. Can you read some of that?

3:29

for us? Was. Every

3:31

so often Iraq with a sudden urge

3:33

to check up on Long nicola Do

3:35

Not Like Me Regulations. In the pop

3:37

culture like to see you might be thinking

3:39

who. The Terrorists out that

3:42

are Lonely Killer online is the most

3:44

followed in London. Ai influence their suit

3:46

treated and twenty sixteen by Brad the

3:48

media and technology. Company. I've listened carefully,

3:50

fascinated by her and funny team.

3:53

Briefly envious of Nine Twenty Nineteen when

3:55

she spent an afternoon eating ice cream

3:57

with Omar Apollo and simply consumed by.

4:00

Content in the spring of Twenty

4:02

Twenty One and conducted academic research

4:04

on the gala she's existed for

4:06

almost. Eight years now for the everlasting nineteen

4:08

year old seems to the eating. Out of

4:10

relevant. Why would you

4:12

be ashamed? You're doing academic research? That's

4:14

the perfect excuse to be doing what

4:17

she wanted. And. That's so true.

4:19

I think I have a background of media

4:21

said he and a lot of that is

4:23

focus on pop culture, an internet culture specifically

4:25

like. Viral. Content And

4:27

I think there is a part of

4:29

mean that's a little embarrassed about. That

4:32

talking about. Whether the a viral meme or

4:34

talking about this person who a lot of

4:36

my friends didn't even know existed until he

4:38

wrote that paper. You like know this is

4:40

important. I swear to God. Exactly

4:42

as I know I'm not just on Instagram.

4:46

Okay, so we're going to get

4:48

him. Mchale is obsolescence, But can

4:50

we start off with an explainer

4:53

for the people? Who.

4:55

Who are saying who? Ah

4:57

who is Will Mchale. Yes,

5:00

she is an Ai influencer.

5:03

Or. A C I robot who

5:05

is released and twenty sixteen. And

5:08

since then she's gonna large

5:10

following across social media and

5:12

also had a small music

5:14

chris. And

5:20

she's mingles with celebrities and even had a

5:22

human boyfriend a few years ago. The companies

5:25

who created her use this vague explanation of

5:27

who she was for years and it was

5:29

just like this public google doc when you

5:32

went to their website and it said Islam

5:34

Mchale a Real and their response was as

5:36

real as we are now which doesn't to

5:38

somebody. Other questions that celebrity culture. And

5:41

fandom. And just like of what does this

5:43

mean it's so weird. Ambiguous is kind of

5:45

like the best way to describe her. Can.

5:48

You describe her physically when I look

5:50

at her. I guess when I see

5:52

is like. Someone. Who's young

5:54

the like? They're doing a skin routine.

5:56

Either that or they're blessed with great

5:59

Skyn by. She has thick

6:01

eyebrows she'd she looks like

6:03

in instagram model of right

6:05

now to me. Yeah,

6:08

exactly. And that's definitely her

6:10

plant or images. Very much a

6:12

caricature of gems, ear. And.

6:15

She's was me racially ambiguous. She's

6:17

so sweet Brazilian American, but how.

6:20

So. Many people assume she is

6:22

other ethnicities or whatever at the

6:24

beginning. I guess her image was

6:26

really. Trying. To uncover whether she

6:29

was just a model who use a lot

6:31

of filters or if she was actually a

6:33

computer made said year. They really

6:35

were never clear for a long time

6:37

and now they've kind of said she's

6:39

a fictional character. she's a robot, but

6:41

for years nobody really understood what she

6:44

was supposed to be. They didn't know

6:46

if she was just a girl wearing

6:48

a lot of makeup and music, a

6:50

lot of filters, or if she really

6:52

was sake and. Now he

6:54

thinks she looks a lot more digital, a

6:56

lot more cartoonist. but and twenty six, he

6:59

a lot of that can go different ways.

7:02

How did she get so popular? Like if

7:04

I'm a real person who's like I'm going

7:06

to get popular on Instagram. Laden.

7:09

That seems like a lot of work.

7:11

Do you have a sense of this?

7:13

Sort of like mechanics of that? Like

7:15

how did they blow up Wilma? Kayla?

7:18

Online. She. Had such a

7:20

great nice people are going to her

7:23

page to try to. Crack.

7:25

The code of uncovering who

7:27

she really is an leading

7:29

with that mystery really helps

7:31

them and benefited. From her

7:33

whole brand. Was gonna say i

7:36

want to do that I I do

7:38

I want to like we'd with just

7:40

being mysterious and sea ray if I

7:42

kinda popular see if that works out

7:44

for me, probably won't To be like

7:46

talk about some of these likes Seminal

7:48

Will Mccaleb Moments Jazz The seminal Will

7:50

Mchale A moments are. She.

7:52

Apparently went to. Coach.

7:55

Shower and interviewed

7:57

real life celebrities.

8:00

I think we want to hear a little bit of

8:02

that. A tough guys have flown the K

8:04

lashing out with you to me as a caricature.

8:06

Last, and I'm joined by a peg Mafia right

8:08

now thanks to my training. Now in his

8:10

films like. So you just cause a

8:12

i us to our with Vince Staples

8:14

health a little bit about that and

8:16

your favorite part about it or the

8:19

most mineral the moment. This.

8:21

Is so weird to listen to because like.

8:24

When she sort of stumbles over

8:26

memorable. Night she sounds

8:28

very real. How

8:30

would you describe her mannerisms? Did videos

8:33

like this makers seem more real? It's

8:35

hard because so much of her

8:37

is supposed to. Directly relate

8:39

to send. The use of a

8:42

lot of the phrasing are like

8:44

popular terms from than the an

8:46

argument that Twenty eighteen nineteen. This

8:48

is reminding me of K, like

8:50

that that chat bot that Microsoft

8:53

built for twitter. Who am

8:55

I guess? like the idea that like

8:57

she's like. Putting. Out

8:59

these are familiar mannerisms and

9:01

words that like you know

9:03

are frequently used by a certain

9:06

generation which Tae was also

9:08

programmed to do right and

9:10

they that ended up getting

9:12

very weird. From. Mchale.

9:14

It did something paid could not do. She

9:17

made out with Bella Hadid in an ad

9:19

yes. And. Seems tricky to me

9:21

because Bella Hadid is this far as we

9:23

know, a real human assume an arm and

9:26

fighting the good not appear in space Compliment

9:28

Fight which is an episode that we made

9:30

recently. How's the

9:33

ad? Overall receive. People.

9:35

Were uncomfortable online know

9:37

not many people like

9:39

seeing it. A. I

9:42

think it's. Almost as saying you

9:44

know how they won't vote wigs on

9:46

robot because and human said to uncomfortable

9:48

that is so insanely balance I wouldn't

9:50

do that kind. Of came up. I love

9:52

the that's like a rule where don't put

9:54

the wigs on the room like as the

9:56

humans really freak out If you do that,

9:58

don't do that. That's. The pitchforks are coming

10:01

out if you put a were gonna robots.

10:03

I had served as far as. I

10:06

had no idea that was a rule. That's amazing. But.

10:09

It's also like I'm now I'm turning into like

10:12

an old man about this and I'm like. Well,

10:15

why don't we know the answer would. Let's

10:17

get to the bottom of this because it

10:20

seems crazy that Lil Mccullough would be able

10:22

her team. Would be

10:24

able to. Navigate getting

10:26

a real celebrity to make out

10:28

with Lil Mchale I and none

10:30

of that information. Somehow.

10:33

Getting out like there and

10:35

da's must be iron clad.

10:38

I know, and that's what's so

10:40

frustrating. And he interacts. With so

10:42

many celebrities and. She.

10:45

Supposed to be in public. So much so

10:47

I really don't understand. What's. Going

10:49

on to they just have like on

10:51

the killer model there who everyone who

10:53

knows anybody knows that that's Mckay. Last

10:55

more I just I want to be

10:57

inside the loop and need to the

11:00

in their yes. This. Is like

11:02

a big foot thing or something we need to

11:04

like? spot her in the wild somehow. Isn't

11:07

true? And I wonder if they have different

11:09

models or if they just have one. I

11:11

feel like if they had different one

11:13

than it would. Insane that. Revealed

11:16

already. There are so many people online through.

11:18

Their only. Hobby

11:20

is it seems is. To uncover?

11:22

Like when something is

11:25

edited incorrectly. Yes, we're

11:27

trying to. Trying. To

11:29

this cat's them in the lie. How's

11:31

the internet not solved this mystery yet?

11:34

I. Don't think the internet cares about Mchale

11:36

a very much anymore, and I think that's

11:39

why no one's interested in it. Wow.

11:41

Okay, so we're going to come back to that. But.

11:43

My said as in Twenty Nine

11:45

Teen Wilma Kayla released a blog

11:48

saying that she had been sexually

11:50

assaulted in a ride share Yes.

11:52

Now. It's wasn't a that and just

11:55

a know for listeners Will Mcgill is

11:57

describing a fictional a disturbing experience here.

12:00

Anyway, I called the right share

12:02

because we love a sustainable budget friendly moment.

12:04

The car pulled up outside my house and

12:06

and getting in when I'm immediately gagged by

12:09

the smell of like jasmine air freshener mixed

12:11

with old man for it's the only say

12:13

was my queen you're on the radio and

12:15

saw me mouth coast but then I noticed

12:17

the other writer wouldn't stop staring at me

12:20

like okay sure I looked cute my club

12:22

for oh for tennis skirt but this there

12:24

was less i think your q and more.

12:26

And confused by what you are. And they

12:28

deserve to find out that believe that

12:31

after minute or so, this mother has

12:33

the audacity to lean in so close

12:35

that I can literally smell his breath

12:37

as he whispers, are you for you.

12:40

I hear this question iraq and in

12:42

the comments every day. I mean it's

12:45

rude, but I can usually get over

12:47

it. But this particular weirdo had this

12:49

weird as mile and just felt wage

12:51

you comfortable in my space like a

12:53

ticking man spreading to a whole new

12:55

extreme. I smiled and nodded. try to

12:57

brush it off I turned the other

12:59

way, looked out the window, then sure

13:01

enough I just feel the skies hold.

13:03

Midi hand touch my leg as if

13:05

he was confirming I'm real. His hand

13:07

literally lingers, they're rubbing my skin. Or

13:10

oh well. That's. Terrible.

13:14

I. Guess in this moment my reaction

13:16

to that is like. You

13:20

probably shouldn't. Pretend.

13:24

About the kinds of things and

13:26

also. It feels

13:28

a little rape fantasies to

13:30

me. In the way that

13:32

it's constructed, What was the response to

13:35

this video? Is now than

13:37

taken down. And it people

13:39

were not happy. A lot of

13:41

people worth saving the facts as

13:43

as she insists co opting for

13:45

his from victim. And

13:47

really not putting these

13:50

experiences seriously. And.

13:52

It. Says it's all fiction when it comes

13:55

to me Taylor said so. Make

13:57

a. Fictional. Story of such

13:59

trauma. And then just dumping

14:01

it on to her. Adrienne just seemed.

14:04

So. Unfair

14:06

to her audience and just

14:09

and announce a. Horrible

14:11

decision making. So.

14:13

In Twenty Twenty Will Mchale assigned

14:16

would see a Can you define

14:18

see A for people who don't

14:20

know it's an agency. Year

14:22

based in Los Angeles

14:24

and essentially for entertainers,

14:26

public figures and now.

14:29

A I and influencers? Okay, what

14:31

would? what was the chatter about

14:33

what that meant for real life

14:35

influencers? Well as

14:37

the time she signed it may

14:39

twenty twenty some. My hunch was

14:41

that it was all because of

14:44

Pandemics, The Air and was lockdown.

14:46

Our signing and a I felt

14:48

like the easiest and safest option.

14:51

For. Brand to keep going, and they

14:53

also hinted at Mccaleb venturing into

14:55

acting at the time, but I

14:57

haven't seen anything besides her Bmw.

14:59

Commercial from last fall. I find

15:01

this to be fascinating and very

15:04

creepy because I also saw some

15:06

writing about this and I can't

15:08

remember in this moment if it

15:10

was from you or others. Bets

15:12

folks talk a little bit about.

15:15

You. Know the fact that she is. Ostensibly,

15:18

a person of color represents a

15:20

person of color, and it seems

15:22

like a very weird world in

15:25

which brands could hire a fake

15:27

person of color. To

15:30

represent them when there are real

15:32

people of color and people you

15:34

know, all sorts of different kinds

15:37

of people who are already looking

15:39

for that work. That's so true,

15:41

At the whole other elements of this.

15:44

And yeah, let's what. Jobs can see

15:46

Tate, how much our does she have

15:48

and know. Where where is that? going

15:50

back to is going back to Bread And

15:52

her creators don't look anything like her from

15:54

my research. Who would have? they look like.

15:57

They are. If you tell me it's a bunch

15:59

of. Id Ids I'm going to so

16:01

disappointed. It is is a good

16:04

looking if it's only in the wasn't bug bread

16:06

from what I've seen I am now or they're

16:08

they're all probably. Xanax. Now

16:11

and then I'll any

16:13

aka got worse by

16:15

the minute. Phone

16:17

now don't you think? I

16:20

mean yeah, I think it's all that edu.

16:22

I've been here. If

16:24

it was always worth it was always

16:26

at the center. There are a we're

16:28

going to take a quick break and

16:30

them were going to talk a little

16:33

bit more a lil bit more about

16:35

Will Mchale his true identity and why

16:37

you are writing her obituary. Pretty

16:59

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Nineteen Days subscribe an Apple Podcasts

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image all episodes or listen weekly.

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Wherever you get your podcast, Okay,

18:31

so reset is. let's talk about

18:33

Will Mchale as creators. A little

18:35

bit more My arm in in

18:37

what we know about her origin

18:39

story. so can you talk about

18:41

her creators? Yes sir, let's

18:44

see It was seated at

18:46

by Trevor Mack Factories who

18:48

is also the cofounder of

18:50

Bread Bad. To be a traveler,

18:52

didn't it? It's a habit of a

18:54

year. Fucking Trevor exactly And is is

18:57

is a music producer. Not even worse

18:59

in near. He must be behind other. Remixes

19:01

on her spotted by these

19:03

their gross cellphone subject. Yes,

19:06

she was great as and twenty

19:08

six p in and it was.

19:11

A hectic time here and the last. Because

19:13

of the election it was crazy in

19:15

the Uk because of brag that and

19:18

I think see it was just made

19:20

a. Really it as

19:22

sisters. Interesting digital. Distraction

19:24

at a time of. Political.

19:27

Chaos. whom. Well.

19:29

I hate to give Trevor

19:31

any more airtime than Trevor

19:33

deserves, but let's listen to

19:35

some Trevor on Be a

19:38

Sixteen. These podcasts. And.

19:40

Form of the disease that run a so

19:42

called Will and Grace that I love Food

19:44

So that like Will and Grace was largely

19:46

responsible for gay marriage for us that like

19:48

public polling was tied to the regular show

19:51

and so it seemed like there was an

19:53

emergent new media social you know visual platforms

19:55

that can be used for towing personal stories

19:57

and that was we the dream. Can we

20:00

tell stories that are as the aging as

20:02

a Kardashians aura Jay Paul but kind of

20:04

in view these ideologies that make for a

20:06

more tower empathetic world. Okay,

20:08

so for the record, obviously the

20:11

two thousand and six study that

20:13

the Trevor is maybe referring to

20:15

hear did show that Will and

20:17

Grace reduced prejudice against gay man

20:20

among viewers, but not that it

20:22

was responsible for the legalization of

20:24

gay marriage stasis typical tech bro

20:26

behavior, her. A thriving. Testing

20:29

this Us. That

20:31

being said, What? What signs of that

20:33

social mission do you see or have

20:35

you seen in Mchale as content? Overall,

20:38

I think her whole at

20:41

Brand is to. The socially

20:43

aware and she says to me incredibly

20:45

can dead so have Post and The

20:47

Cat and For and The Caps and

20:49

she's ranting about. Politics Or

20:51

just. Current.

20:53

Social. Dilemmas I'm

20:56

like really. She's supposed

20:58

to connect with such a large audience

21:00

is supposed to be kind of the

21:02

every girl of sends the. That.

21:05

All of her. Activism.

21:07

Is really surface level and how could it not

21:09

the i mean she exists and computer. And.

21:12

She's also supposed to be nineteen. So.

21:15

How much is what she sang?

21:17

Really like. Of interest to

21:19

people beyond her audience? I don't

21:21

know. I've never found anything she.

21:23

Said to be of quality. Or.

21:27

I'm not there. I'm not going to law make a

21:29

little learn. Cel. Mai Mai

21:31

Film. In

21:37

the same Andreessen Horowitz Podcast

21:40

interview, they discussed how they

21:42

created Mckellen, how they picked

21:44

her ethnicity and age because

21:47

they felt both it of

21:49

those demographics were under represented

21:51

in the media. You know

21:54

you're probably closer to Cinzia

21:56

then those dudes were. Or

21:58

are. Do

22:01

you feel like they hit the market least initially

22:03

in creating a realistic nineteen year old does attract

22:05

as you seem legit. Now I

22:07

think see it looks like flies Someone of

22:09

their age would assume a nineteen year old

22:11

acts and looks like. Who and

22:14

more similar same warrants

22:16

her Brazilian. American identity

22:18

and her ritual ambiguity.

22:20

Really is. I don't know if

22:22

the me it looks more like

22:25

those posts from the early two

22:27

thousand for it would just show.

22:29

With a tan girl with curly hair and green

22:31

eyes and say this is what the seats are

22:34

is going to look like and that's kind of

22:36

what their of framing it to. And

22:39

I don't know if that's a way to connect

22:41

with more of an audience. Made her more relate

22:43

of old because he's not. Just like. Of

22:46

the on the my daughter I'm wearing our

22:49

yeah i've Written in you. Were

22:51

even the age nineteen is so

22:53

ambiguous to you are technically an

22:55

adult, but you're not even twenty.

22:57

It's not like Cz. Photographs out and

22:59

can't get. It as alcohol sponsor said.

23:01

And I mean that's so interesting

23:03

too Because Nineteen. As such, like

23:05

the doorway. Into a. So.

23:08

Called the heard. But you're still a

23:10

teenage girl. Yeah, that's weird. That's

23:12

a weird choice. Yeah. Cause

23:15

she should be twenty one So you can

23:17

get that sweet sweet like alcohol money. Exactly.

23:20

Arms. And if you're gonna buy guess

23:22

like and centralize her something, then why

23:24

did they not make her eighteen? I

23:26

guess I shouldn't. I'm not trying to

23:28

advocate for that. I'm just going. Wanna

23:31

know? It's weird. Nineteen seems like

23:33

we're choice. He. Is we're at.

23:36

it seems incredibly intentional, and I heard

23:38

assists. and six months at once you're

23:40

two weeks out of high school. You're

23:42

already been behind on trends. So.

23:45

A nice and flat they wanted her

23:47

is that hurts his eggs as I

23:49

heard. Anything

23:51

they wanted her as close to a

23:54

high school age as possible. and I

23:56

don't know nineteen as such a strange

23:58

time anyway, I think deliberately. Go candidate

24:00

out of the A. Will.

24:03

There's a pop culture reference. I

24:05

actually understand Cincinnati for that. I

24:07

appreciate that as this brings us

24:09

to Twenty Twenty Four and that

24:11

the essay that you wrote about

24:14

the death of Will Mckellar and

24:16

artificial influencers in general. Why did

24:18

you decide to write an obit?

24:21

I notice that there's

24:23

just been such. Silence.

24:25

Around Mikaela her Bmw

24:28

Commercial. Citizen Bag.

24:31

I. Don't know. I think of years ago would have

24:33

been bigger by it. Yeah, I

24:35

think the reef framing of her recently

24:38

has been interesting. For years her whole

24:40

at Brand was around relate ability. And

24:42

connecting with her audience. Trying to

24:44

the it as human as possible and

24:46

saying i'm just like you even though

24:48

I'm a robot so that otherness really

24:51

wasn't the focus were now it seems

24:53

the shift is to the frame dollar

24:55

on the other Ness and also like

24:57

Crysis Media has been lacking. she has

25:00

not been as active says that I

25:02

think she's really falling off. To not

25:04

punish and. Not as much as

25:06

you. Say I will say like light particles

25:08

I mean you know that she should

25:10

She should have time to post come

25:12

on. Exactly. She has been logging a

25:14

You Tube videos no man is like

25:16

as far as I can see and.

25:19

What is Yeah doing with her

25:21

like is exactly where is he.

25:23

Isis? I don't know. I felt that she

25:25

was really falling off and I wanted to

25:28

showcase that because four years ago when I

25:30

first. Started doing research on her. It

25:32

seem to be the key gang

25:34

or. On this road to more

25:37

success and. I wanted to know

25:39

what's happening. Now I know people talked

25:41

about her as the potential death knell

25:43

for human influencers on and I think

25:46

in your essay you talk a little

25:48

bit about Pinky Dawn. We didn't episode

25:50

about like humans acting like and pcs.

25:53

I love since his arms his assets

25:55

I see so the. And

25:57

I wonder like what?

26:00

They'd. Like there

26:02

aren't a good Gillian Lil Mchale. As

26:04

like, why do you think that didn't

26:06

really happen? Why haven't they all replaced

26:09

all of the human influencers. I.

26:11

Think in twenty twenty beer. I

26:13

started to see an uptick in

26:16

that I influencers that they were

26:18

all brief and I think it's

26:20

because they're nice is. What

26:22

it says late really, it's confusion and

26:24

they really want the audience to be

26:27

confused. But after that they

26:29

don't really have anything and one

26:31

said novelty of their. A.

26:33

I knew. Is gone. Then

26:36

why would they go viral anymore?

26:38

was interesting of were a

26:40

human influence or has the ability

26:43

to grow. And. Evolve in different

26:45

ways. and I mean at the whole influence

26:47

or market is still up in the question.

26:50

As far as longevity, it's still so new.

26:52

So. How. Who am I to

26:54

say? like how long is influencers will. He.

26:57

That if my it. As far as

27:00

her and all the other air influences

27:02

I've seen, they really don't have longevity

27:04

and I think it's because. At.

27:07

The moment of their creation there almost like a new

27:09

car, like when she dragged off the lot. It's not

27:11

going to have the same. Worth. Anymore and

27:13

why you're created. As a third

27:15

time. once that technology evolves. What?

27:18

Are you doing? Oh boy. In

27:20

your essay you talk about Meadows

27:22

celebrity look like chat bots like

27:25

this one named Billy who looks

27:27

and sounds exactly like Kendall Jenner.

27:29

Hey guys, it's silly. I just want introduce

27:32

myself. I am here to Shot whenever you

27:34

want. Message me for any advice. I am

27:36

ready to talk and I hope to talk

27:38

to you soon. So you've already

27:40

talked to little bit about this. We

27:43

jumped ahead. but like, even though there's

27:45

not a zillion new Mchale is, there

27:47

are some new. Mchale is like Billie.

27:49

What do you think the existence of

27:52

these types of bots mean from a

27:54

killer. I think it's

27:56

just going to lessen the interest in

27:58

the killer even more. Because.

28:00

People are the have a relationship to

28:02

the celebrity thesis and these figures. And

28:05

though even if you're chatting with silly

28:07

who is an Ai, it may seem

28:09

that you're chatting to Kendall Jenner. I.

28:12

Think the celebrity factor All of

28:14

people have that foundation of that.

28:16

An Mccaleb. Doesn't her

28:19

relationship with her audience and her

28:21

fan? Is still. On.

28:24

The newer aside, there is no. Nostalgia

28:27

factor. With her: there's no

28:29

closeness. And I don't know.

28:32

I think her lack of social media to

28:34

has made it even more distant with fan.

28:37

Do. You think they're just retool winner? I

28:39

think so. I think there's been some hints

28:41

on her. Social media said something new

28:43

was coming. She's. Had this longing

28:45

for wanting to age recently and I think

28:48

it aligns with her V M W Add

28:50

because all of that was about. Separation.

28:53

From a human life and her

28:55

connecting with this car. And. Like

28:57

that you're looking. At sadly out at the

29:00

human interacting with each other and at on

29:02

the whole lives and of but I think

29:04

it really lines that the courts or right

29:06

now I mean look at the Barbie movie

29:08

the Summer at That tackled the mortality of

29:10

a plastic figure moink think. Mckay.

29:13

Let is adopting that whole idea

29:15

now and even over at Rico.

29:17

She's in our teen pop queen

29:19

and now she's in her twenties.

29:21

So she's not forever nineteen either.

29:23

That's. What is it seems? To be

29:26

going out like they're going to change your

29:28

age? Them. It's interesting, because eight. I.

29:30

Get the messaging And of the same time,

29:32

that seems to be a great example of

29:34

why she's clearly not a real human. Because

29:36

I think like, I

29:38

don't know. Like at least by the time I

29:41

was nineteen, I didn't need to grow older. I

29:43

was like you know and I'm going here I'm

29:45

good here. We could stop here. I feel like.

29:48

Little kids want to be older, but to

29:50

nineteen year olds really be yearn for being

29:52

older. I don't know. That seems weird. To.

29:55

Think they yearn to the twenty

29:57

one. Anything

30:00

else? It and season. That

30:02

nineteen since I was twenty room

30:04

and I think it's about time

30:06

she grows up. Personally, whatever can

30:08

just dissolve. Into the ether? I don't really

30:11

know. Reset as Thank you

30:13

so much for talking with us about Loma

30:15

Kayla. And please keep us posted on all

30:17

of the updates even though they seem few

30:19

and far between these days. There's

30:22

things you so months I love talking about.

30:24

This is great! Leader. That

30:34

was more said as Gonzalez Bizarre on

30:37

we linked to her essay by the

30:39

way death of an artificial influencer on

30:41

a website Wb You are that works

30:44

less and less bread and after we

30:46

talk him or said as right before

30:48

this winter air Will Mchale I announced

30:51

on instagram that she had quote turned

30:53

twenty so she's not dead yet I'm

30:55

afraid of the production of Wb You

30:58

Are In Boston. This episode was produced

31:00

by Grace Tatar and hosted by yours

31:02

Truly Them Brought Johnson Mix. And

31:04

sound design by Emily Jin Cascades

31:06

Endless Thread is a show about

31:09

the blurred lines between online communities

31:11

and Dues name's Trevor. If you

31:13

know the real identity of Wilma

31:15

Killer or you are a Mccullough

31:18

or your name is Trevor and

31:20

you don't deserve to be teased

31:22

about it, you can email us

31:24

Endless Thread, a Wb you are.org

31:26

see and next week.