0:01

Hey Endless Thread homies, Happy New

0:03

Year! We

0:06

hope that you are preparing

0:09

to celebrate our

0:12

traditional transition from one

0:14

year into the next with

0:17

joy and hope and

0:19

optimism and feelings

0:21

of improvement,

0:24

self-improvement, and institutions. To

0:39

that end, we

0:41

would like to play you an episode

0:43

that we love and that we

0:45

feel has a

0:47

kind of moving from one

0:50

year into the next message to it. So

0:53

here it is, today you, tomorrow

0:56

me. WDUR

1:00

Podcasts, Boston. Amory,

1:12

are you ready to do some physicist phrases

1:15

of yore? Sure.

1:20

Do you know what the Drake Equation is? No,

1:23

no I do not. So

1:25

a lot of people think that the Drake Equation

1:28

is like late night plus

1:30

you needing my love equals he

1:33

used to call me myself, but

1:35

that's not actually what the Drake

1:37

Equation is. You're only

1:39

embarrassing yourself. So

1:44

the Drake Equation is this like, it's

1:46

this probabilistic argument used

1:48

to estimate the number of

1:51

active communicative extraterrestrial civilizations in

1:53

the Milky Way galaxy. Just

1:56

rolls right off the tongue. Yeah. So

1:59

basically. the probability that there are

2:02

aliens, right? Mm-hmm.

2:04

Mm-hmm. So,

2:06

what about the Fermi Paradox? When

2:08

I say the Fermi Paradox, are

2:11

you like, uh, no doi? Not

2:15

exactly. I mean, I know it's like aliens,

2:18

the existence of extraterrestrial life,

2:21

but I couldn't give a TED Talk on it,

2:23

no. Okay,

2:26

so the Fermi Paradox simply stated, uh,

2:29

named, by the way, after

2:32

physicist Enrico Fermi. Enrico

2:34

Fermi. Yeah. This

2:37

is the idea that there's this

2:39

issue where the mathematical probability of

2:41

intelligent life beyond planet Earth, aka

2:43

the Drake Equation, doesn't

2:45

really line up with the

2:47

total lack of evidence we

2:49

have been presented with of

2:51

aliens. So what you're saying

2:54

is you're not an avid follower of

2:56

ancient aliens, the air quotes

2:58

history channel show? Yes,

3:01

the existence of the pyramids tells

3:03

you more about humanity's terrible propensity

3:05

for slavery than it does

3:07

past visits from interstellar travelers.

3:10

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay,

3:12

fair. Um, but the idea, the Fermi

3:14

Paradox, was presented by Enrico Fermi like

3:16

70 years ago, and since then- Enrico

3:19

Fermi! Sorry, I just wanted to put a little

3:21

more in. I say keep doing it. Keep doing

3:23

it. And since

3:25

then, many different, very smart

3:27

people have been, for decades,

3:30

suggesting some possible explanations for

3:32

this paradox. This idea of

3:34

like not being alone, but

3:36

you know, the fact that there still hasn't been a lot of ET

3:39

phone home, if you know what I mean. All

3:41

right, get to the point, Prometheus. Okay,

3:43

so, so one of these possible

3:46

explanations for the Fermi Paradox is

3:48

that as science and technology advance,

3:50

all intelligent life just tends to

3:53

blow itself up before getting anywhere

3:55

beyond its own solar system. Like

3:57

fundamentally, it's sort of a

3:59

humanity. is bad argument. We can make

4:01

the technology to do great things, but

4:03

we can't have nice things because we're

4:05

jerks. But some of us are not

4:08

jerks. Right. That's true. I'd put

4:10

you in that camp, not a jerk. And

4:14

this, of course, is the point of this

4:16

week's story. And I would say

4:18

an argument of this week's guest, who

4:20

is kind of famous for putting a

4:23

big piece of evidence against the

4:25

humans or jerks argument into

4:28

the public record. So

4:31

my name is Justin. I'm Reddit

4:33

user Roner. I'm

4:36

terrible at this, guys. You're doing great,

4:38

Justin. Justin

4:41

has this epically famous post

4:43

from 10 years ago called

4:45

Today You Tomorrow Me, which

4:48

we're going to get to. Yes. But

4:50

first we asked Justin about the Fermi

4:52

paradox and the humans or jerks explanation

4:54

at the end of our recent interview

4:56

with him and he was into it.

4:59

I am very familiar with that

5:01

theory in a million years. I

5:04

never would have guessed that we would have

5:06

gotten this conversation to this question. And I

5:09

am impressed. So I am

5:11

impressed. This is the

5:13

hands on the best question I have ever been asked

5:16

given context. I

5:19

think, you know, again, as very,

5:22

very smart monkeys, we have a

5:25

capacity to do many things. We

5:28

have a capacity to grow and change internally.

5:32

We also have the capacity

5:34

for curiosity, which

5:36

probably outstrips every other. Nothing

5:40

that we have. So I'm

5:42

always concerned about the future and whatnot. I'm

5:45

sure for a number of

5:47

reasons, we may

5:49

not hit our interstellar phase of human

5:52

development just because we're going to ruin

5:54

our planet or kill ourselves or decide

5:57

to go back into the trees. I have no idea. But

6:01

I know whatever comes, we will be able to

6:03

change. Will

6:05

we though? Well, Justin

6:07

changed. He didn't used to think this

6:09

way. He was a pessimist. And then

6:12

10 years ago, he changed his tune.

6:15

So we should hear him out. I'm

6:20

Ben Brock Johnson. I'm Amaree Sievertson.

6:22

And this is Endless Thread. The

6:24

show featuring stories found in the

6:26

vast ecosystem of online communities called

6:28

Reddit. We're coming to you

6:30

from WBUR Boston's NPR station. Today's

6:33

episode, today you. Tomorrow

6:35

me. The

6:40

year was 2010. Remember

6:42

2010? Back when our

6:44

problems seemed more like this? You

6:47

know, I had a few, you know,

6:49

car troubles. You

6:51

know, I didn't have as much money then as I

6:53

have now. Justin was having the kind of year that

6:56

many of us would be happy to put behind us.

6:58

I had gone through a breakup with a long, you know,

7:01

from a long term relationship that was a bummer at

7:03

the time. I, you know, had

7:05

to move. There was, you know, there just all these

7:07

tiny little things, you know, that just they felt big

7:09

in the time. But looking back, you know, during 2020,

7:11

they feel like, you know, tiny little speed bumps. Justin

7:14

says he's a pretty negative person, but

7:17

we don't believe him. I

7:19

don't really remember moving

7:22

into that apartment that I complained about. I don't. I

7:25

remember the guys who got gas for me when my

7:27

car ran out. I don't really remember getting, you know,

7:29

ticked off and being stuck on the side of the

7:31

street for an hour. You

7:34

know, it's just it's funny how, you know, the

7:36

further away you get from it, the

7:38

more positive aspects kind of float to the surface.

7:41

And frankly, I just don't even remember the negative anymore. It

7:44

sounds like maybe you're not the person you think

7:46

you are. And what I mean by that is

7:48

you say that you're the type of person generally

7:50

who focuses on the negative. But I don't know

7:52

what I'm hearing right now is kind of goes

7:54

against that a little bit. Yeah, it requires 10

7:56

years. It requires 10 full

7:59

years. then the statute

8:01

of limitations has expired in my brain and

8:03

I can start focusing on all the positives.

8:06

But it also sounds like this thing that happened

8:08

to you also had a pretty big impact maybe

8:10

on the way that you look at the

8:13

world maybe. I don't know. Well that's honestly

8:16

that's kind of the only reason why I was interested in

8:18

talking to you guys about it. This

8:22

thing that happened to Justin has

8:24

become Reddit lore. He originally

8:26

told the story in a comment on a post

8:28

that asked, have you ever picked up

8:31

a hitchhiker? Justin's response

8:33

is a journey and he read

8:36

it for us in full. This

9:00

past year I've had three instances of car

9:02

trouble. A blowout on a freeway, a bunch

9:04

of blown fuses and an out of gas situation. All

9:07

of them were while driving other people's cars

9:10

which for some reason makes it worse on

9:12

an emotional level. It makes it worse on

9:14

a practical level as well but with the fact that

9:16

I carry things like a jack and extra fuses in

9:18

my car and know enough not to park facing downhill

9:20

on a steep incline with less than a gallon of

9:22

fuel. Anyway,

9:26

each of these times this shit happened I was disgusted with how

9:28

people would not bother to help me. I

9:31

spent hours on the side of the freeway

9:33

waiting watching roadside assistance vehicles blow past me

9:35

for AAA to show. The

9:37

four gas stations I asked for a gas can at

9:40

told me that they couldn't loan me one for my

9:42

safety but I could buy a really shitty one gallon

9:45

one with no cap for $15. It

9:48

was enough each time to make you say shit

9:50

like this country is going to hell in a

9:52

handbasket. But you

9:54

know who came to my rescue all three times?

9:57

Immigrants. Mexican immigrants. None

10:00

of them spoke a lick of the language, but

10:02

one of those dudes had a profound effect on me. He

10:05

was the guy that stopped to help me with a blowout

10:07

with his whole family of six and tow. I

10:10

was on the side of the road for close to four hours.

10:12

Big Jeep, blown rear tire, had a

10:14

spare but no jack. I

10:17

had signs in the windows for the car, big signs

10:19

that said, need a jack, and

10:21

offered money. No dice. Right

10:23

as I was about to give up and just hitch

10:25

out of there, a van pulls over and dude bounds

10:27

out. He sizes the situation up

10:30

and calls for his youngest daughter who speaks English.

10:32

He conveys to her that he has a jack, but

10:35

it's too small for the Jeep, so we will need

10:37

to brace it. He produces a saw from the van

10:39

and cuts a log out of the downed tree on

10:41

the side of the road. We rolled

10:43

it over, put his jack on top, and

10:45

bam, in business. I

10:47

start taking the wheel off and, if you can believe

10:49

it, I broke his tire iron. It

10:52

was one of the collapsible ones and I wasn't careful and

10:54

I snapped the head and needed to clean off. Fuck.

10:58

No worries. He runs to the van, gives it to his

11:00

wife, and she's gone in a flash, down the road to

11:02

buy a tire iron. She's back in 15

11:04

minutes. We finish the job with a little

11:06

sweat and cussing. Stupid log was

11:09

starting to give. And I'm a very, very

11:11

happy man. We are both

11:13

filthy and sweaty. The wife produces a large

11:15

jug of water for us to wash her hands in. I

11:18

tried to put a 20 in the man's hands, but he wouldn't

11:20

take it, so instead I gave it to his wife as quietly

11:22

as I could. I thanked him up

11:24

one side and down the other. I asked

11:26

the little girl where they lived, thinking maybe I could send

11:28

them a gift for being so awesome. She

11:31

says they live in Mexico. They

11:33

are here so mommy and daddy can pick peaches for the next

11:35

few weeks. After that, they're going to pick

11:38

cherries, then go back home. She

11:40

asks if I have had lunch, and I told her

11:42

no. She gave me a tamale from her cooler. The

11:45

best fucking tamale I've ever had. So

11:52

to clarify, a family that is undoubtedly

11:54

poorer than you, me, and just about everyone else

11:56

on that stretch of road, working on a seasonal

11:58

basis where time is mine. took

12:01

an hour or two out of their day to help

12:03

some strange dude on the side of the road when

12:05

people in tow trucks were just passing him by. Wow.

12:08

But we aren't done yet. I thank them

12:11

again and walk back to my car and open the foil

12:13

on the tamale because I'm starving at this point. And what

12:15

do I find inside? My fucking $20

12:17

bill. I

12:19

whirl around and run up to the van and the guy

12:21

rolls his window down. He sees the 20 in my hand

12:23

and just shaking his head. No, like

12:26

he won't take it. All

12:28

I can think to say is por favor,

12:30

por favor, por favor with my hands out.

12:33

Dude just smiles, shakes his head with what

12:35

looks like great concentration, tries his hardest to

12:38

speak to me in English. Today

12:40

you tomorrow me. Rolled

12:44

up his window, drove away, his daughter waving

12:46

to me in the rear view. I

12:48

sat in my car eating the best fucking tamale of

12:50

all time and I just cried. It

12:53

has been a rough year and nothing has broke my

12:55

way. This was so out of

12:57

left field I just couldn't deal. In

13:03

the five months since I have changed a couple of

13:05

tires, given a few rides to gas stations and once

13:07

went 50 miles out of my way to get a girl to an

13:09

airport. I won't accept money every

13:12

time I tell them the same thing when we are through. Today

13:15

you tomorrow me. More

13:19

in a minute. Justin's

13:30

Today You Tomorrow Me post is

13:32

what we call in the biz

13:34

a feel good story. I

13:37

am incapable of reading that without choking

13:39

up. I am sorry. You

13:42

don't need to apologize for that. I'm

13:44

more emotional in my older age as I

13:46

advance in age and I'm quick to choke

13:48

up with things that touch

13:50

me I suppose. Okay, if sharing

13:52

a touching story was all we were hoping to

13:55

accomplish in this episode, we would end it right

13:57

now. Roll the credits. And

14:00

probably tell by the way we started this episode,

14:02

we had bigger questions for

14:04

Justin. Because on the

14:06

one hand, his post got this huge

14:08

response. The bulk of the messages

14:10

I get are from folks who either want

14:12

to tell me a story about when

14:15

this happened to them, when someone

14:18

helped them. And

14:20

then, you know, kind of half of those are also folks who just

14:23

said, you know, thank you for your story. I get it now. And

14:25

I promise you, I'm going to be a better person. I'm

14:27

going to start helping people. But

14:30

then on the other hand, it's been 10

14:32

years since Justin made this post. It's

14:34

been shared across Reddit and beyond. Countless

14:38

people have seen it and been moved by it.

14:41

But pal moved, moved enough

14:43

to start actually being better

14:45

people, helping other people. Whatever

14:48

good deeds this post may have inspired over

14:50

the last 10 years, I think we can

14:52

all agree the world's could use a lot

14:54

more of today you tomorrow me. But

14:56

a lot of people wrote to Justin saying that

14:58

they aren't sure where to start. They

15:01

are sure that it probably won't be on

15:03

the side of the road. You

15:05

don't have to pull over, you know, like you

15:08

don't need to do that at all. Like you can

15:10

help in so many different ways. You know, you can

15:12

you can volunteer your time, you can donate money, you

15:15

can raise awareness for different causes, you can pick up

15:17

litter in your neighborhood, you can check in on your

15:20

neighbors. You

15:22

can make sure that your neighbors all know each other and that,

15:24

you know, you're checking in on each other

15:26

enough that you know if somebody's got a hardship that

15:28

they need help with. 2020

15:31

has been rough, though. And some

15:33

of you might be thinking, wait, I

15:36

have a hardship. Today me

15:38

someday you when I have

15:40

the money or energy or time, I really

15:43

do wonder if you know, a lot

15:45

of folks kind of see it as aspirational. Like

15:47

I wish I was in a place where I

15:49

felt like I could do that. You know, like,

15:52

is it a privilege to have the time to

15:54

help? You know what I mean? Like, you can

15:56

look at it from that aspect to like, you

15:59

know, some folks really. don't have the time

16:01

in their day. I'm

16:04

very fortunate to have that time. I don't

16:06

have kids. I've got a partner

16:08

that shares the bulk of the taking care of me. So I've

16:10

got the time

16:14

to lend to other folks. And

16:17

I think people want

16:19

to help. I think they want to

16:21

feel like they have the opportunity to

16:23

do it. And we don't really

16:26

give folks that opportunity or we haven't

16:28

really set people up for that opportunity.

16:30

But in

16:33

this case, it was a family

16:35

that maybe didn't have the time

16:37

and did it anyway. I've thought

16:40

about that a lot. What's the difference between

16:42

me and that family? The

16:46

difference between us is in

16:48

that moment at least, I had a

16:52

certain set of expectations.

16:54

And when I'm concerned

16:57

about keeping up

16:59

with the Joneses or making sure the next

17:01

paycheck is here or making that next payment

17:03

or upgrading the car

17:05

or buying the new toy or the

17:08

new boat or whatever it

17:10

is that I'm doing, it's

17:13

easy for me to justify that I don't have time. I don't

17:16

have time to be hopeful. And

17:19

I wonder if those

17:21

folks have a different

17:23

perception of what success

17:25

is. Because I wonder

17:27

if they even would have this question. Do I have

17:32

time or do I make time? When

17:35

your whole ethos is like today you tomorrow

17:37

me, you don't really think in those terms.

17:40

I don't think he doesn't

17:42

think because even though Justin is the

17:44

today you tomorrow me guy on Reddit

17:46

now, he still strives to live

17:48

up to that idea like the rest of us.

17:51

And he told us over and over again during

17:53

our interview, I am the messenger

17:55

that is that is all I am. I

17:57

am the guy who was unprepared for a

18:00

fairly minor automotive

18:02

maintenance task. But the messenger matters,

18:04

right? Because messengers multiply. You know,

18:07

I always laugh like when I

18:09

think about how many places this

18:11

thing has shown up, right? So

18:13

like, I'm

18:15

not terribly religious, I'm a non-believer,

18:18

and I've had multiple clergymen and

18:20

women reach out to me and

18:22

say, hey, I'm either asking permission or

18:24

just letting me know, hey, I use this on

18:26

Sunday, or I use this on Saturday at my

18:28

congregation. Another messenger, Chris

18:30

Neal, a filmmaker who Justin

18:32

says is the 15th person

18:34

to adapt this story into

18:37

a short film. Hey,

18:39

you. How

18:44

are you? Now,

18:47

we want to be clear about something. Justin's

18:49

story isn't trying to paint a

18:52

group of people with broad strokes,

18:54

and neither are we. This is

18:56

really a story about one family that

18:59

made a choice to help. When it would

19:01

have been a lot easier not to. Have

19:03

you ever tried to find this family who helped you

19:05

that day? There would be no,

19:07

I honestly, I

19:10

would have no idea how to start. There's,

19:15

I mean, I've had people ask me that before, like, you

19:17

know, have you tried reaching out to farms? Like, I don't

19:19

think you guys understand how many farms there are in Oregon.

19:24

It would be impossible. Like, if

19:26

you and your family were in a

19:28

van on Highway 217 in

19:31

the Portland area, sometime in the middle

19:33

of July, I want to say it

19:35

was actually early July, 2010, and

19:39

you helped a doofy tall white guy with

19:41

a gold cheap that had a tire blown

19:43

out, please reach out to

19:45

this podcast or WBR in Boston.

19:47

I would love to speak to

19:49

you. And

19:53

now here we are. Another couple

19:56

of messengers sharing this with you. And

19:58

maybe you'll pass it along. Or maybe you'll

20:00

just keep it in mind as you go about your life.

20:03

Maybe when the aliens get here. That's

20:06

the first thing they'll say to us. Today

20:09

you tomorrow me.

20:12

And then they'll hand us the technology for

20:15

interstellar travel and then they'll get up, get

20:17

back into their car and zoom off. Oh,

20:20

a girl can dream. That'd be cool. Mm-hmm.

20:24

But as silly as all of that sounds,

20:27

it does get at this fundamental question we

20:29

all struggle with. Especially when we are going

20:31

through a hard time. Are

20:33

people good or are we

20:35

bad? And how you

20:38

feel about that really influences your behavior

20:40

as you go through life, right? If

20:43

you go through life like Justin and this family,

20:45

maybe you're a little more willing to reach

20:47

out and help someone. Because you assume that

20:50

they're good people and you're good people, so

20:52

you should help one another. And

20:54

as a species, that can be a

20:56

force multiplier. It can be a

20:58

philosophy that helps us not blow ourselves up.

21:01

Because today you tomorrow

21:04

me. And

21:08

that's why I think it's kind of cool to

21:10

have something, you know, so universal encapsulated in four

21:13

words. You could create a

21:15

number of, you know, hypothetical, big

21:18

time questions around it just because it's

21:20

so universal. And it gets back to

21:22

the point of we're all connected. We're

21:25

all just on a rock flying through space, folks.

21:29

We're all here together. We've got a very,

21:31

very short period of time to do

21:33

it in the grand scheme of things.

21:35

And there's a whole lot to see

21:37

and experience and do and feel and

21:39

love and think. And

21:42

you don't have enough time to do it all anyway. So, you

21:44

know, let's help each other make the most of

21:46

the time we have. Endless

21:56

Thread is a production of WBUR,

21:58

Boston's NPR station. Josh Swartz

22:00

is our producer. Extra production help from

22:03

Frank Hernandez. Mix, sound design,

22:05

and original music by Matt Reed.

22:08

On Reddit, we are endless underscore thread. If you want

22:10

to reach out, give us a story tip so we

22:12

can tell it like we did today. Or

22:14

contribute art for an upcoming episode, you can

22:17

hit us up there as well. Yeah,

22:19

and speaking of art, special thanks to Anna

22:21

Karakalu, who made original art for this episode.

22:23

Hell yes. You can

22:26

find that and a link

22:28

to her Instagram on our

22:30

website, wbur.org/endless thread. My

22:32

co-host is Anne-Marie Sebertson. My co-host

22:34

is Ben Brock Johnson. We'll let

22:36

ourselves out. Thanks

22:55

for watching.