0:02

Give it a chance, give it a chance,

0:04

Give it a chance. Come morning, give it a chance. Give

0:06

it a chance, Give it a chance, Give

0:09

it a chance. Good morning, Give it a you want

0:11

to give it a chance, Give it a chance,

0:13

Give it a chance. Just hi,

0:17

everybody, and welcome to give it a chance.

0:19

You.

0:19

We're very excited to be here. My

0:22

name is Casey Jost joining me as

0:24

every day of my life is my friend Kevin

0:26

Devine. Kevin, how are you?

0:28

I'm great, Casey. You were so excited you started

0:30

laughing. It's like real exciting.

0:33

Yeah, I'm always I'm always a little excited, especially

0:35

when we get to do this. And if you don't know the show.

0:37

We like to take songs that

0:40

either are hated universally or

0:42

we don't particularly like, and we

0:44

like to give it a chance. And Kevin, are

0:47

you feeling Are you feeling optimistic?

0:49

Yeah? I mean I'm always feeling optimistic

0:51

about the opportunity to discuss universally

0:54

reviled or personally reviled

0:56

songs with you. What's not to be optimistic

0:58

about it? Oh? Do you mean about the prospect of

1:00

what you're gonna hand me right now?

1:01

Yes? Oh, all of it? No, No, that

1:04

too, but yeah, yeah, so you do. Yeah, like,

1:06

just to reiterate, you don't know

1:08

what song I'm about to tell you.

1:10

No, I don't know. This is a like blindfold

1:13

grab bag poop poop ladder.

1:15

Isn't that nice? It's great when you

1:17

get to do that all the

1:20

all the time. You know, it's so nice when you

1:22

get to make it to the Milky Way, right, Yeah.

1:25

Yeah, yeah, I was hoping you would bring

1:28

that up. I liked I want to talk more about cosmology.

1:30

Oh that's actually that's perfect.

1:33

That's a that's perfect you know, uh oh,

1:35

because I do. What I don't want you to do is

1:37

to fall for a shooting star.

1:39

Oh no, wait a minute,

1:41

Okay, keep going? Is this can

1:43

I should I guess? Or should I? I'm closing my eyes

1:45

so I don't watching.

1:46

You know, you should take a little soul vacation.

1:48

And all novel. We're

1:51

going big today, Yeah,

1:53

like kind of big. That's like the best

1:55

soy latte that you ever had. Yes,

1:58

Wow, you got it.

2:00

That's my that's my I can't even that's my favorite

2:03

lyrics. So I'm really excited that you get it's the best

2:05

one.

2:05

And the fact that you said soul vacation

2:08

was really I was like, oh, okay, they're

2:10

just tiny little drop let's cupidter,

2:12

They're about to be sprinkled everywhere.

2:14

There it is. So I I personally

2:17

don't like the song and never have and

2:19

I bet you there's a lot of people who love

2:22

the song and hey, millions,

2:25

oh millions for sure. And so I definitely

2:27

think that a podcast like this could come

2:29

off really pretentious. And because

2:32

we're even just the idea that like this song

2:34

that is like, you know, because sometimes we're

2:36

you know, we're gonna have you know, those those

2:38

like Baha men who let the dogs out where the

2:40

world is just like even even if you like it, you

2:42

know that it's it's not great,

2:45

but you know or you know that people don't

2:47

love it. So this song, though, I

2:50

think, is like every

2:52

mom's favorite song, and

2:54

I don't.

2:55

Have so much. I love so much. Yeah

2:57

I love moms and I have so much in

2:59

the chambre on this. Oh

3:02

yeah, but like a predisposition, I actually

3:04

have a personal there's.

3:05

A lot I can't wait. All right, so this is what we're gonna.

3:07

Was my mom actually too. See,

3:10

yeah it's really good. You really nailed this. Okay,

3:12

great and I just reiterate, we did not

3:14

this. There was no prep for this. We know, I mean,

3:17

I didn't.

3:17

Years of press song.

3:21

But also to be clear, we have not. I

3:23

don't know if it needs to be explicitly stated if

3:25

you are unaware we are about

3:27

to enter into the world of train and

3:30

the song is Drops of Jupiter

3:32

here in casey, caseon. I

3:42

haven't like zoned in on that song

3:44

that way. I mean possibly,

3:46

ever, I feel like I must have at some time,

3:49

like when it first happened. Well, well, let's get

3:51

you sorry, let's set the table. I have

3:53

so many things MO went around, No, I know.

3:55

There's so much to talk about.

3:57

I would say.

3:57

My first thought is that I was about like

4:00

three quarters away through and I thought,

4:02

oh no, oh, am I going to give this a chance. I

4:05

haven't thought of a positive thing.

4:07

You're like, you've absolutely

4:09

invalidated the core mission this

4:11

b I know that

4:13

I started being like, I'd like, how's the

4:16

bassline? Like, I can I can

4:18

start us off on on chancy

4:20

if you want, and before we

4:22

even I mean we can, we can determine if we want

4:24

to enter the realm of the personal connection

4:26

at any point. Here's what I would say,

4:29

all right, so when Train first came out

4:31

and that song Meet Virginia, which

4:33

is not on give it a chancey, because I

4:35

actually will make an argument that song is kind

4:38

of a decent song.

4:39

I'm actually blank. I mean I know the core, I

4:41

know the meat name of it. Yeah,

4:44

that's all I know? Though, Is there now any other

4:46

lyrics? Tell me that's like a reality? Oh? Then

4:49

she walks, oh, yes, yes,

4:51

okay, okay, you kind of like you make

4:53

it sound nice.

4:54

Well, I mean, you know, I am a professional

4:56

who sold as many as fifteen thousand records.

5:00

But look what I what I

5:02

thought when that happened. And I might have been like, I

5:04

don't know, late nineties,

5:07

mid to late nineties, I don't know when this song

5:09

came out. So it was a little for that. And

5:12

I was definitely like there was

5:14

enough punting crows

5:17

and black crows

5:20

in it.

5:21

But I was like, that's a great poll like the two of them.

5:24

Yeah, but I also wrote down the

5:27

band of the verve pipe totally.

5:29

Yes, no, it's in that. This is

5:32

sorry, I'm punching the microphone. This is more.

5:34

This definitely falls more in

5:37

the like that, and then like kind of like whatever

5:39

moment the Goo Goo Dolls break

5:41

out of like sort of scrappy

5:44

Minnesota punk Bear or wherever they were from Buffalo

5:46

by way of like Husker Do and

5:48

Replacements or whatever, and they kind of become like

5:51

a radio band. This

5:53

is definitely a little bit more of that. But

5:56

I feel like when when Meet Virginia first came out,

5:58

I had a moment where I was like, oh, this is kind of cool.

6:00

I didn't buy the record or anything, but I liked

6:03

I liked Counting Crow's first two records,

6:05

and I like that it was the Southern

6:07

harmony whatever the first Black CROs

6:10

record was, And I was like, oh, this kind of sounds

6:12

like that. This to me, there

6:14

are moments at first of all, it is an immaculately

6:17

produced and arranged song and and

6:19

and and engineered from

6:22

maximum duration.

6:24

It's like so clean, yeah, And it's

6:27

perfectly the arc of

6:29

the song where things come in, where they drop

6:31

out, the emotional information of

6:33

the recording itself. This is

6:35

why it's a huge song. It was. It was flawlessly

6:38

executed. And the dude I don't

6:40

know his name has a train, his name

6:42

trained and mister Train, Yeah, he

6:45

has a soul well delivery and he's

6:47

committed, and he's very clearly living in

6:49

a space that's between there's.

6:52

He's like, he thinks these lyrics are like both

6:54

insightful, meaningful, profound, and

6:56

a little funny. He's trying to be a little

6:59

funny. Yeah, Yeah, And I

7:01

will give him credit for the attempt

7:04

to trying to live in that space is

7:06

vulnerable. It opens you up to exactly

7:08

what we're doing right now, which is like,

7:10

is it funny to talk about soy lattes and

7:13

fried chicken and a serious song about

7:15

like love and companionship

7:17

and I don't know astrology or whatever is

7:19

going on here? No, Like it's actually

7:22

I may think it's patent lee ludicris, but

7:25

I give you credit for stepping into the breach because

7:27

it's a hard breach. And the last thing

7:29

I would say, as from the gift for the

7:31

give it a chancey, is

7:33

just that there are moments

7:36

of genuine sweetness

7:38

that do puncture the bullshit

7:40

facade where he's

7:43

there's something in there about basically the thing

7:45

about like, uh, these things

7:47

that are hallmarks of new love. Five hour phone

7:49

conversations. No, I think

7:51

he says no pride at one point,

7:53

which like genuinely a

7:56

spiritual axiom, like how do I let

7:58

go of my personal like go and

8:00

pride?

8:00

And I agree, there are those moments.

8:03

I can't believe that he got there though, because

8:05

he says things that don't like really

8:08

don't make sense, or like that you know sound,

8:10

you know, it sounds like real,

8:12

like acts like summer, walks like rain. Listen,

8:15

what does that mean? Listen like spring, talk

8:18

like June like. It's like I'll

8:20

have to really search to understand that metaphor

8:22

pull from something that is not just there.

8:24

Yo. And also I actually while we

8:26

were muted and listening, I actually was

8:29

talking to you. There's a lyric

8:31

early in the song where he says, yeah,

8:34

since the return of

8:37

her stay on the moon.

8:39

I want to break that down. What the

8:42

car I was gonna swear? I don't know if

8:44

swearings allowed, I swear what the

8:46

fuck does that mean? Since the return

8:49

of her stay on the moon. So

8:51

does that mean she's returned from the moon?

8:54

Yeah, her stay has

8:57

returned, so she's back on the moon. That's

8:59

confers using language. And I know this isn't

9:01

a creative writing class or it's not like

9:04

lit one on one, but come on, you can't.

9:06

This is an attempt to have this is I'm moving

9:08

away from giving it a chancey, I'm taking away the

9:10

chancey. This is an attempt to like

9:12

be like poetic,

9:15

uh, flowery language,

9:18

dylan esque or something. But

9:21

that doesn't make any sense at all, and

9:23

not in a cool way, not in a like you

9:25

know, there's the bones of electricity

9:28

howl in the bone, the ghost of

9:30

electricity howls, and the bones of her face. That's a Bobdyel

9:32

lyric. I don't know exactly what that means, but it's fucking

9:34

great.

9:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I agree, it's not it's

9:37

not there because you know, he

9:39

tried, he attempts a lyric like that. But then he also

9:42

says she checks out Mozart

9:44

while she does ty bo, which is great.

9:47

That's the moment I was on mute

9:49

and I love. Earlier in the podcast, he said, like,

9:52

you know, about the potential pretentiousness

9:54

perceived in an effort in what we're doing, Like

9:57

yes, like basically like two white

10:00

of a certain demographic information living

10:02

in Brooklyn, New York, sitting and picking apart

10:04

a song that has you know, millions of

10:07

people have found joy and some sort of like conviviality,

10:09

and but honestly, look, someone's

10:12

got to do it. And if it's you and me, it's

10:14

your truth. Is that lyric

10:16

I started saying to you on mute.

10:20

It was it was like a gut, I was going, it's

10:22

contemptible, it's utterly con It's.

10:25

Like NRICs like that, like you could just like I could

10:27

make a whole list just off the dome. That's just like

10:29

she does construction whilst her paints her

10:31

nails.

10:32

Like it's like she

10:34

thinks she sounded.

10:35

But she's more like tells you,

10:47

well, man, did you sound cross?

10:51

Did you make it to the milky way?

10:54

So I like where it brought me to

10:57

of the era and like a phrase like tybo,

10:59

like I literally wrote it down on the piece

11:01

of paper in all caps. I also spelled

11:03

the wrong it's spelled the t YbO because that's

11:05

how long it's benstance. I saw that words

11:07

spelled.

11:08

That's my boy,

11:11

it's different that it is.

11:12

And I but I took me

11:14

to a place and I think you might have a story here, you

11:17

know, But I was just I was just picturing

11:19

like my not even my mom, but like my friend

11:21

Danny's mom, like

11:24

like singing it like either at like a wedding

11:26

or like like even just maybe seeing Train

11:28

live and being so happy singing the song

11:31

that like got her into this band, that maybe

11:33

she likes the deep tracks of Train and

11:35

it made me just happy, like like picturing

11:37

her singing it. Also, before

11:40

we go too far, some of the lyrics

11:42

are like very easy to memorize and

11:44

probably really fun this sing along. But then there's

11:46

like a lot of sections where I'm like, it's

11:49

it's it's like polyrhythmic and the words are

11:51

kind of like it's hard to I'd

11:54

be hard to memorize unless you're like a super

11:56

fan, which I give them credit that like this is a

11:58

big radio song and that has moment and like

12:00

that.

12:01

Almost of like yeah, like

12:03

like a percussive scatting

12:07

like that plain Old Jane told a story

12:09

about a man who was too afraid to fly by

12:12

like that. You can remember all the words to that

12:14

even if you heard it. Yeah, even if

12:16

he's singing a karaoke every that's

12:18

a lot.

12:19

Yeah, it's And going back to Dylan, it is that

12:21

like there's in the base Man mixing

12:23

enough the.

12:24

Men, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, And

12:26

I totally sorry yes, that's

12:29

that's it. That's check your train.

12:32

But so I need to hear the story about your

12:34

mom.

12:35

Well I want you know, I guess

12:38

you know ours is a rangy pod, and so there

12:40

will be some This has a dollop of

12:42

like hyper seriousness in it, but well you know that's

12:44

we're not We're allowed. My

12:47

dad passed away in two thousand and three. My mom

12:49

is a big music fan, like kind of

12:51

the primary entry point for me

12:53

with music. And that's

12:55

something we've shared throughout my whole

12:58

life and and and that's been a very cool thing.

13:00

So after he passed, I would go to

13:02

some concerts with her that she might have

13:04

gone to with him. I mean, if

13:06

she could have convinced him. And that would have been also

13:09

a subject of some debates. I think the

13:11

right m in sum ed would have sat out. But so

13:13

one of the things was she had tickets. This

13:16

is crazy in retrospect, and

13:18

we saw, I mean we saw some great stuff. We saw like Crosby,

13:20

Stills, Nash and Young at Masson Square Guard or

13:23

Oe there and saw Don Henley at like

13:25

Hammerstein Ballroom or something in New York.

13:27

But anyway, she had tickets to train

13:30

at the Bowery Ballroom, which

13:32

if you are an uninitiated not

13:35

not somebody who's from New York or or familiar

13:37

with the this is like a six hundred capacity

13:40

little but wonderful venerated

13:43

club in the lower East Side of.

13:44

Manhattan, which is where is by the

13:46

way, is underrated. Yeah,

13:49

oh yeah, Manhattan is definitely

13:53

okay.

13:53

I had, Yeah, this takes a milky way in

13:55

Heaven and yeah, yeah,

13:58

but the lights are faded. But so I

14:00

said sure. And I was not a

14:03

train fan

14:05

per se, but I was a fan of my mom. I

14:07

am a fan of my mom. So she was like, gonna

14:10

go see trained. Do you want to go? It was like totally,

14:12

and I don't. I don't

14:15

drink or do drugs anymore, but I did when

14:17

I was a younger person, and at this time in my life,

14:19

I still was doing that. And I kind of just got

14:21

like irrevocably loaded hanging

14:23

out one on one with my mom wow

14:26

at a train show where effectively,

14:28

I don't know if this dude maybe maybe

14:31

Jane broke up with him or Jupiter stopped

14:33

dropping, but he had been going through

14:35

something and it was like an underplay

14:37

where they were doing Bowery ballroom as like some

14:39

sort of like special thing in advance of a new record,

14:42

because that man could play I think places.

14:45

And what I remember is they did a lot of

14:47

covers. They

14:49

did like Raspberry Beret. They

14:51

did hard to handle, the way

14:54

the Black Crows do hard

14:56

to handle. It was like covering the cover, you

14:58

know, it's and they

15:00

deaf. But at some point they broke out the

15:03

drops drop

15:05

and it was one of those things like in spite of

15:07

yourself, you're like in a room with six hundred people

15:10

having like a quasi religious experience

15:12

to this sort of like ridiculous, ephemeral

15:15

song about Tybeau and chicken. But

15:17

oh sorry. Part of the thing too with the song,

15:20

as we think about the lyrical stuff and the movements,

15:22

those percussom scatty things, and that

15:24

getting to bring back up the chicken made me think

15:26

of it. It's not like when Bare Naked Ladies

15:28

does something like this and there's like a hitch

15:30

element to it, right, But this

15:33

is delivered in a way that's almost supposed to be received

15:35

as like serious

15:38

music.

15:38

From the piano opening, Yes,

15:41

it tells you like that. That's like I think I

15:43

wrote. Then that's the cleanest most sterile piano

15:45

I've ever heard of in my life.

15:46

It's not and it's like, yeah, it's not even a piano whatever

15:48

that is.

15:49

Yeah, it's like definitely some digital. It's

15:51

like it's like a robot trying to imperson it's AI

15:53

trying to impersonate.

15:54

Very early AI. It's very yeah,

15:57

but it's.

15:57

Yeah, so it's serious, yeah, serious tests and.

16:00

So sorry I jumped out of the but that

16:02

I mean. So, I mean I have personal

16:04

experience of being in a room, not at someone's wedding,

16:07

but not a karaoke when I

16:10

don't know justin Train whatever his name

16:12

is, is this song and

16:14

he was like what I really remember is it was like

16:16

kind of like in between songs, he was

16:18

like talking about

16:20

like his divorce and stuff, like we're

16:24

people, he's and he was moving

16:26

through some sort of dark chapter. And

16:28

also this was like two thousand and four or five.

16:30

When we left the Bowery, everyone

16:32

was handed it was like early on in this thing. They

16:35

my mom, I'm sure has this somewhere. They

16:37

pressed a CD of the show.

16:40

Remember when people were doing that, Like.

16:41

Yeah, could that's amazing? I didn't even know we could

16:43

still do that.

16:44

You definitely can still do it, but at that point

16:46

it was like a new thing. And what was odd was the people

16:48

who were doing it were like, not to get too off track,

16:51

but like people like Trent Resnor, like tech

16:53

Forward, like nine inch Nails would like hide

16:55

flash drives in bathrooms.

16:57

Oh I love that, that's fun.

16:59

But so also they would like press CDs and this was

17:01

like you walked out of the Train show and you got handed a

17:03

CD of Train doing like led Zeppelin

17:05

prints whatever and then fucking

17:08

drops the Jupiter.

17:09

Oh yeah, So I can't believe that so from

17:11

that live show or like from a different cause that

17:13

I probably sound like a new but like I didn't even know you could

17:16

do that. I mean I knew that the technology exists,

17:18

but I would just assume there's like that, like

17:20

before you even said that, you'd have to have an agreement,

17:23

like yeah, that was a good show, or like no, I actually

17:25

said that thing that could be taken out

17:27

of contact? Yeah, you know, like I maybe

17:30

then they wouldn't they wouldn't even be thinking like that,

17:32

but I don't.

17:32

Yeah, that's a great I don't know what the deal is with it, because

17:34

I do remember being surprised that there couldn't really have

17:36

been a vetting process. There was no time it

17:39

was, especially on CD, like on CIT like

17:41

I would almost think, like, oh, everyone, check your

17:43

email.

17:43

In five minutes, you're gonna have it. You're gonna have like

17:46

the the entire morning.

17:48

Yeah. Yeah, like we're gonna just run this back

17:50

for.

17:50

The printed CDs like

17:52

that they have.

17:53

Like they had burners and they had

17:55

U and I guess they might must have had it set up through

17:57

you know, pro tools or something like that. Anyway, not to get too

17:59

lost in the weeds, but I think.

18:01

That's crazy because I mean, unless

18:04

I mean you're saying that that existed at

18:07

least this was.

18:08

Like eighteen years ago.

18:09

Yeah, did a lot of bands do that?

18:12

I think some did.

18:13

I mean, I'm so hung up on this right, It's

18:15

like I'm like amazed by the technology

18:17

because I'm like, I just remember, like last

18:19

time I burned to CD was a long time ago, but I still

18:22

remember it takes a long and like there would be a buffering

18:24

stage and.

18:25

Yeah, there were definitely Glitch's galore

18:27

and I think, what was you know, I just

18:29

remember thinking it was kind of like a punk rock

18:31

thing for a band like Train to

18:34

be doing I was like, whoa, and

18:36

this is all really just to say, uh,

18:39

you know that night what

18:41

I witnessed was a band

18:44

who you know, I gave him a chancey

18:46

and they they were a competent you

18:49

know, rock and roll outfit who

18:51

very credibly covered all these songs, delivered

18:53

their own. But it is.

18:55

Odd to cover from your

18:58

like direct comparison,

19:01

like because if you you know, covering

19:04

is just the best, it's like so cool. And but

19:07

I do think there's like, all right, so years and years

19:09

ago, you're good friend of mine, Brian

19:11

Bonds.

19:12

Yes, you went on the.

19:13

Road, just like opening and

19:15

for some acts, but like just

19:17

a little tour lot. This was probably

19:20

like around two thousand and three.

19:23

We opened for just for one show. We opened

19:25

for the band nine Days.

19:27

Oh is that a story of a girl?

19:29

Yes? It is. This is a story of a girl.

19:31

H it's not it's

19:34

it's not great, but it's not bad.

19:36

It's it's it's somewhere in between. And that's why

19:38

I think it's gray area that unless

19:40

it was really on a list, I wouldn't

19:42

put it there, but like no fly list, Yeah,

19:45

if it gets on the no fly list or something like that,

19:47

but you know. I think

19:49

that it's the thing that was interesting

19:51

and you brought up was that they played

19:54

their song in the middle of the set,

19:56

the Story of a Girl, but they also

19:58

played that song as a closer, so they played

20:01

it twice, which is wild.

20:02

But I love that.

20:03

Also covered like semi

20:05

charmed kind of life and stuff of that

20:08

time, and I remember being like a little

20:10

it was like a little bit like, oh, like I

20:12

think that they're trying, you know, but there's also a

20:14

show in their hometown of Long Island, so

20:16

I was like at a small venue. I was like,

20:19

it made me feel it was it was kind of a bummer

20:21

because I was kind of like, even with

20:23

a hit like that, oh yeah.

20:25

Tough, it's a cruel industry. It's

20:27

a cruel world. This

20:40

is I gotta kill, I gotta jump out

20:42

the window with all these train references.

20:47

Yeah,

20:50

I feel like. We actually

20:52

played a show last night on Long Island

20:54

at a very Long Island venue opening

20:56

for a band from Long Island, and

20:58

they were like, ah, posters and advertisements

21:01

up all over the place for people who had played there and would

21:03

play there, and one of the things

21:06

was a band called this Speaks

21:08

to what You're talking about and speaks to the realities

21:10

I think of all this kind of stuff. There was a band called

21:12

the Warped Tour Band Okay,

21:15

and were We're five

21:17

dudes, each of whom kind

21:20

of looked like a prominent

21:23

dude from one of the bands

21:25

that has done the Warped Tour

21:27

probably numerous times. And people were

21:29

telling me there was people who would come up to the merch

21:31

table and we would talk a little, and someone said,

21:33

like they'd seen them several times and what they'd

21:35

do is like

21:38

a song by each of

21:40

those bands, that's the set.

21:43

And I think, like that's clear. They're clear delineation.

21:45

They were a cover band. They're not like a tribute yeah

21:47

a band, Yeah, they're they're paying tribute

21:49

to a scene, to a moment in time, and

21:52

that serves something. People love that. It's

21:54

a source of a side of community, a side

21:57

of nostalgia, a side of like give me

21:59

a break from banalities

22:01

of my day to day life or whatever, you know. And I

22:03

think, and for the musicians, I think, if you're

22:05

in a clear if you know that's what

22:07

it is, well, then that's you going and

22:09

doing that thing. And I've had I have so

22:11

many friends who do various things with music

22:14

from various directions, and everyone thinks

22:16

the grass is a little like I'm sure that band probably

22:18

gets paid better to know

22:21

like that than probably like a band like ours does.

22:24

But a band like that is like I would love

22:26

it if, like anybody cared about

22:28

the songs I write. What's interesting

22:30

about the show you just described

22:32

is that they were sort of having both experiences

22:35

at the same time. And that's

22:37

confusing. That's like some kind of weird

22:39

psychological hell to be like they

22:41

love this one song. What other songs are

22:43

these people like, Yeah, semi

22:46

charp life, I know, let's we'll do that.

22:48

There were some others too, like maybe like

22:50

Googo doll stuff like Matchbox twenty, but.

22:53

They were doing both. That's a lot.

22:55

Yeah.

22:55

Yeah.

22:55

I would almost say like it's probably better to like

22:58

be like, you know, people might come because

23:00

they know that we have that song, but like why don't

23:02

we rebrand? And then I'd be like, yeah, that's that's

23:04

smart. That's like that's a decision.

23:06

That's a decision, and it's.

23:07

Fun that way. But it

23:10

might be it might have been like an in between. Maybe they

23:12

are doing that, and I think more power to them. It's

23:14

really a mark of how hard the industry is in

23:16

terms of like you could have a massive song,

23:18

oh and still it's tough.

23:21

Oh absolutely. I mean I almost think for

23:24

most people it's like, uh, I mean

23:26

this could be this could be its own whole thing,

23:29

so lost in a cul de sac on this.

23:32

I almost feel like to have

23:34

that degree of sort of

23:36

like a visibility and success

23:38

around one thing if

23:41

you then want to can. I think it's why

23:43

there are certain people who might have been looked at as like

23:45

pretentious or art damaged or spiteful or

23:47

whatever, who like really pushed back against

23:51

their one song, whether it

23:53

was you know, I don't know, Radiohea or sneade O'Connor

23:55

Nirvana. There's there's a lot of them, but that

23:57

we're like either like, well, we're just gonna stop

23:59

playing that song, or and

24:02

see what happens, right right?

24:04

Yeah, I think I think to be caught.

24:06

It's like I see do you ever see the movie The Wrestler?

24:09

Yes, so the scenes where like the

24:11

older wrestlers who have phased

24:13

out of like major are like at

24:16

VFW hall's with merch tables

24:18

set up selling signed pictures of themselves.

24:20

I will tell you as like a

24:22

touring independent musician. I was

24:24

like, oh my god, that's a little clip.

24:27

It hits home.

24:28

Yeah, and I think you

24:30

know that the the the idea.

24:33

But but there's multiple ways to look at that too.

24:35

It's like you know, everybody's it's if

24:38

you're still in pursuit of the thing that animates

24:40

you and you're like, uh,

24:43

in love with it and making a living, well, then you're in love with

24:45

it and making a living. But the other side is like you

24:47

didn't have drops Jupiter in your pocket.

24:49

What's interesting is that I think there's a huge

24:51

difference between like we even just meant mentioned

24:54

that other trained song meet

24:56

Virginia Virginia. Yeah, right, so that's

24:59

just two song is that like we both know

25:01

and you know, like they had

25:04

a trained cruise like they they've

25:06

done.

25:07

That big hit later that was maybe

25:09

even bigger than these, which was well

25:11

after you and I would have been aware

25:14

of it. So Hey Soul sister. Oh

25:16

they're hey Soul's sister too, So

25:19

that that's actually kind of wild because they.

25:23

That's huge. So that's they see, they they played

25:25

the game. Then they they stayed relevant

25:27

for long enough that they you

25:29

know, like that's that's really that's

25:32

that's really impressive. Then I guess that's what I

25:34

give him a chance. That's really just I mean.

25:38

Yeah, and I think they kind of also, this might

25:40

be treading into territory. We

25:43

can decide if we want to tread into in this pod.

25:45

But I also think what happened with I want

25:47

to say his names like Patrick Monaghan, it.

25:49

Is that that is I looked it up. I don't interrupt you, but yeah,

25:51

that's it. That's it.

25:53

I'm glad that you didn't interrupt.

25:54

Which is I think another reason why your mom liked the band.

25:56

That's like always good Irish, good

25:58

Irish.

25:59

Yeah, I don't know why my mom

26:01

is not from like AUT's.

26:04

You're like, what matter? I was like, wait

26:07

what?

26:09

I feel like he also, around the

26:11

time of Hay Soul's sister was

26:14

a pop adjacent

26:17

musician, adult contemp or whatever, who

26:19

was like comfortable using some

26:22

non traditional music media to

26:24

reach his audience, I e. Places

26:26

like Fox News and stuff like that.

26:28

Oh interesting.

26:29

I kind of feel like he made a little pivot.

26:31

I just did a weird thing with my hand that you can't see

26:34

listening, but it was like a weird upside down felt

26:36

it in your voice though, Yeah, I was trying to scoop

26:38

with my voice. And it's interesting, well smart

26:41

marketing thing if you are like interested,

26:43

and I you know.

26:44

That's the future now Like now it's like people really

26:47

find those niches and like dial

26:49

in you can.

26:50

Yeah, absolutely, And and also you know,

26:52

I don't know anything about Patrick, but if maybe

26:55

he felt like his bread was being buttered

26:57

on both sides by attending something

26:59

like that. But I kind of remember them playing like

27:01

on morning shows. I was like in a hotel

27:04

somewhere. I was like, is that train? I'm like Fox

27:06

this morning?

27:08

Yeah, well there. But they're

27:10

a band that I think would be I we've talked

27:13

about this song which might which might feature

27:15

down the line. I don't want to go into too much

27:17

though, So you had

27:19

a bad day, right, Like they

27:21

could write that, they could write that.

27:24

I did, like, that's that soul Sister

27:26

is like.

27:27

It could have been in just every episode of American

27:29

Idol.

27:30

And what I will say about I'm sure and I am sure

27:33

the people on American Idol, the voice

27:35

whatever sing this song. I'm sure

27:37

if you combed through there's some season

27:39

where someone does drops

27:42

Jupiter or Hay soel like, you

27:44

know, I think that that's funny. The immediate

27:47

response I had to this song starting

27:50

was a kind of like there's something about the

27:52

rhythm of that piano and everything where

27:54

I'm like, you can both identify and maybe

27:57

that's maybe what we're describing here is like

27:59

the mo of this highre series

28:02

of conversations you and I have. It

28:04

is both utterly

28:06

perfect as what it is

28:09

and totally reprehensible, Like

28:12

there's thing about it that just stylistically,

28:14

someone listening to this might be like, what an asshole,

28:16

and they might be right, but and it's all

28:18

aesthetic and it's all subjective

28:20

and a matter of what you like and don't that

28:23

is so manicured in this way.

28:25

It is both perfect and also something that

28:27

I'm like, come on, I know, I

28:29

know.

28:30

It's like it's both soulful and soulless.

28:32

I don't know exactly on who's

28:34

looking at it.

28:35

It's either a sole vacation or a sole vocation,

28:38

you know what I mean? Either way?

28:40

You know, did you watch the music

28:42

video as you watch?

28:44

No I listen?

28:45

Okay, that's good because I think there's people probably

28:47

like are driving and don't I don't want

28:49

them to actually watch something.

28:52

But I watched the music video and I

28:56

this happens to me sometimes with athletes. I

28:58

was like, they're an age I'll never

29:00

be and I'm probably older than where they

29:02

are, but totally like, there's certain

29:05

people like are like, you know, there's certain

29:07

the way that people look at a certain time,

29:10

Like I'm like, I can't tell your age, you

29:12

seem older, younger, like you've lived. And

29:14

I feel that way with like athletes for sure.

29:17

One hundred percent. I still feel that way

29:19

where I'll be at like I'm

29:21

forty four next week and

29:23

I'll be at like a Knicks game. I brought

29:25

my daughter to the Knicks game earlier this year

29:28

on like a day off from school, and I'm

29:30

like, I could literally be half

29:32

of the people playing. I could be their

29:34

dad. Yeah,

29:36

But I'm also like, they're always going to

29:39

be older than me. There is something

29:41

about that, and I think that's maybe an

29:43

effect of media, like

29:46

how we receive people like athletes

29:48

and celebrities or whatever. Then

29:50

the the other side of that is, certainly there are certain

29:52

people who percolate in the culture now that I'm like that

29:55

person seems like they're like nine, I

29:58

know, twenty five. That's just part

30:00

of aging.

30:00

It's so true. It is so true. I was talking to

30:02

a band that I you know, like a punk

30:05

band, Diet Sig.

30:06

You Yeah, yeah, yeah.

30:09

They lived in Williamsburg for a little bit and I talked

30:11

to them and I were just talking and to

30:14

me, they felt like the same age as me, but they're definitely

30:16

not, but just in talk and then I

30:18

said something like, oh, it's kind of like we're talking

30:20

about and I said it's kind of like TLC's waterfalls

30:23

and they were like, what's that and.

30:24

Ill yeah, yeah, wow.

30:25

I was like, okay, there's the age.

30:26

There's well, dude, I will I tour

30:29

and I play now at this point

30:31

often with bands that

30:33

are sometimes ten to fifteen

30:36

years younger than me fifteen

30:38

years old, and sometimes I play with

30:40

bands either like I go to preschools and I just

30:43

know. But no, there's and then every once

30:45

in a while I get to open, like you know, when I did

30:47

a tour with Not a Surf last year and there

30:49

that was nice because I was like, oh, I'm like the young person. They're

30:51

all like in the fifties and sixties, but

30:54

like, but on

30:56

this most recent trip with a really good band from

30:58

from Cincinnati called Motherff. They're all in

31:00

there, they're around thirty, and

31:03

I would play and sometimes if I was like in a mood

31:05

to like be silly, I would like, you know,

31:07

this is my next I'll play my next song, and then I would like play

31:09

the beginning of like Stairway to Heaven or like you

31:12

know, like whatever, some some

31:14

rinth like funny yeah, and

31:17

I will tell you fewer and fewer

31:19

people know what the hell's going on. Like if

31:21

the younger the audiences get, the more

31:23

I'm like, I have to update those jokes I've learned

31:25

from like Olivia Rodrico something.

31:28

But then I'm also like, you can't do that. That's

31:30

like pandering. At that point, you

31:32

just get you know, you are who you are, play it and

31:35

that's ultimately what Drops Jupiter is about.

31:37

To me, it is Yes, you're right, it is

31:39

guy ends who he is.

31:41

He's gonna try to poke around. It's

31:43

some kind of cosmic significance while also

31:45

talking shit about like cultural ephemera that

31:47

will be dated ten minutes after the

31:49

song comes out. And I feel like he kind of

31:51

does this throughout their ubra as far

31:53

as I can see. It's like a feature of how he writes.

31:56

But this was his real This is

31:58

the mona Lisa for this is a top

32:01

point.

32:01

And I will continue this day

32:03

saying no, no, no, like

32:07

he really that's not even like his main

32:09

thing. That's just an extra little thing he threw in there

32:12

and all those aa yay,

32:14

Like that's that. I've heard this technique,

32:16

this technique that a friend told me that like

32:19

he's a musician, told me that Prince

32:21

said in an interview was like, just keep

32:23

making sounds throughout the recording and

32:25

people will want to listen.

32:27

Yeah.

32:27

I think that's what he's doing. And so he's channeling Prince

32:29

and I give him. I give him a chance for that. I think it's

32:31

interesting. Always give Prince a chance.

32:35

Well, that wraps it up. We did

32:37

it, We did it. I'm gonna get a soy

32:39

lata now.

32:40

Yeah, I'm gonna go do some tabo and have some chicken

32:42

and check out Mozart. Always remember people

32:44

check out Mozart.

32:46

Check it out and our sponsor

32:48

today, Mozart. I

32:51

love you, buddy, I'll see you next week.

32:53

I love you too. Case Wah,

33:00

were getting

33:04

H