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New Statesman. Hello,

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I'm Hannah Barnes, Associate Editor at

1:31

The New Statesman, and you're listening

1:33

to The New Statesman podcast. During

1:36

this general election campaign, we

1:38

are bringing you new episodes

1:40

every weekday with updates on

1:42

party policy announcements, reaction

1:44

from around the UK and the

1:46

best polling analysis with our experts

1:49

talking of which. Joining me today

1:51

is the New Statesman polling guru,

1:54

Ben Walker. Hello Ben.

1:56

Thanks for having me. Well, thank you for

1:58

coming on. Day three of manufacturing. Festo launch

2:00

week, Ben, we're going to go

2:02

through the greens in a minute and I'm going

2:04

to try and link or most of

2:07

what we're talking about with the polls, seeing as

2:09

we have you. But first

2:11

really, the big story cutting through

2:13

today is the seeming admission by

2:15

the Defence Secretary Grant Shapps that

2:17

Labour are going to win, thereby

2:20

conceding defeat. And he's warning of

2:23

a Labour supermajority trying to mobilise,

2:25

I guess, the core Tory

2:28

vote. Understandably that's made a

2:30

few in his party a bit cheesed off.

2:33

But as things stand on Wednesday the

2:35

12th of June, is

2:37

that the way things are heading, a

2:39

Labour supermajority? Yeah, yeah.

2:43

The former Minister for what

2:45

was his titles? He's been through many,

2:47

many different titles over the course of

2:49

his parliamentary career. The Member Department for

2:52

Welling Hatfield, currently under threat,

2:54

forecast to go Labour. If an election

2:56

was held now, yes, the

2:58

numbers do point to what can only

3:01

be described as, yes, a supermajority or

3:03

rather a superdefeat for the Conservatives. Let's

3:05

just remember the numbers from 2019, Tories

3:08

came away with 360,

3:13

370 MPs in the House of Commons.

3:15

Now they are currently forecast, according to

3:17

Britain Perdix, other models are of course

3:20

available, to get 80 seats

3:22

or thereabouts. It really is silly numbers.

3:25

When I put these numbers out and

3:27

I did it the last time I

3:29

was on here recording, I was looking

3:31

at them and I thought, this is

3:33

ridiculous. These numbers, look, it's

3:35

based off polls as they stand now

3:37

and the polls as they stand now

3:39

point to a damning defeat for the

3:42

Conservatives. But I think, rewind yourself back

3:44

to May. And by the way, I

3:46

think we are just over halfway to

3:49

polling day since Rishi Sunak called that

3:51

election. Just think back to

3:53

when Sunak did step out of Downing

3:55

Street and did make the announcement, soaking through

3:58

to the sounds of things going on. get

4:00

better. I was thinking, well,

4:02

it's going to narrow. Of course it's going to narrow. In

4:05

nine in every 10 elections, the

4:07

polls do narrow in favor of

4:09

the incumbent. It looks as though,

4:11

you know, a few weeks on and a few

4:14

weeks to go, the polls haven't narrowed. In some

4:16

instances, they've got wider. In some, they've just stayed

4:18

stock still. What

4:20

we're also noticing is, you know, we

4:22

like to talk about the many undecideds

4:25

that always exist in elections, but compared

4:27

to other elections, there are fewer undecideds

4:29

than there normally are. People have made

4:31

up their minds about the government, who

4:34

they go for now, whether it's

4:36

Labour or the Lib Dems or

4:38

Reform or not voting altogether or

4:40

indeed the Greens is a

4:42

bit more further up the debate. But yes, the

4:44

current numbers as things stands, super majority. So

4:47

things have not got better. It's

4:49

interesting what you say about undecided

4:51

voters, during that distinction between that they

4:53

have decided not to vote conservative, but

4:56

they're undecided as to whom they

4:58

will vote for or vote not at all. I mean,

5:00

how can you pick that out from the numbers? Well,

5:03

it really depends what you ask voters.

5:05

And you can just read between the

5:07

lines. So you ask voters, first

5:10

of all, how do you feel about

5:12

Rishi Sunak winning the next election? And

5:14

you find, oh, it is around about a

5:17

quarter to a third of

5:19

the Boris Johnson backing base, those

5:21

that, you know, the election coalition that

5:23

could give the conservatives a fifth term

5:25

win. A quarter to a third of

5:28

them do not want Rishi Sunak's conservatives to win re-election.

5:31

And then you ask them, how do you feel,

5:33

do you think this election should be a change

5:35

of government election? Yougov finds around

5:37

about a third to four in 10

5:39

of them think the next election should

5:41

be a change of government. And

5:43

Ipsos find a higher figure. I can't remember the

5:45

figure, but it's around about 70% amongst

5:48

the whole British public. Right. And so when you

5:50

look at that, when you see virtually

5:53

four in 10 of those that backed Boris Johnson

5:56

in 2019, now having

5:58

written off the conservatives. But

6:01

when you ask them how are they going to vote now,

6:04

you do see a lot of uncertainty still. Is it

6:06

going to be for reform? It did actually go up

6:08

for reform. The numbers going for reform have gone up.

6:12

But they are still uncertain about

6:14

whether they're going to take the jump to

6:16

the other side, to labor. And then you

6:18

also in some rural areas, and indeed also

6:20

in Bristol, you have some conservative voters considering

6:22

the Greens. Because who is the

6:24

lesser of the two evils when put between the

6:26

Greens and Labour? And in parts

6:28

of Bristol, some conservative voters do choose

6:30

the Greens. So yes, the

6:32

uncertainty that exists now amongst

6:35

the Tory base have written off

6:37

the Tories. Most Tory voters who are

6:39

undecided have written off the Tories as

6:41

like an option worth considering. Now they

6:43

don't really know what to do. And

6:47

when, to reiterate, when Sunak came outside

6:49

Downing Street to announce the election, you

6:51

would think they would have rallied back.

6:55

They haven't. Why? Well,

6:57

because the polls haven't changed for the past year

6:59

in a bit. All of us, most of us,

7:01

the vast majority of us, think the time

7:03

for change is now, the time for a change in government

7:05

is now. And there

7:07

have been very little incentive to think otherwise.

7:10

Well, and a small, you know, amusing blip

7:12

that you could see as like, it's not

7:14

just Tory voters who don't want to vote

7:17

for the party. There are hints that even

7:19

their own MPs are not that enamored with

7:21

them either. I mean, extraordinarily, the conservative

7:23

candidate, Andrea Jenkins,

7:26

very recent past was obviously an

7:28

MP. Her campaign

7:30

leaflets picture herself with Nigel

7:32

Farage, not just once, but

7:35

twice. Quite extraordinary.

7:37

But I won't ask you to dwell on that. Let's go

7:39

on to the Greens then, as we've mentioned them, obviously

7:42

trying to win very hard that seat

7:44

in Bristol and retain Brighton Pavilion. They've

7:47

launched their manifesto today,

7:51

quite honestly. I mean, they've

7:53

said we don't expect to

7:55

form the next government. I mean, no one

7:57

would. But the Covid-19, the leader

8:00

Adrian Ramsey said we're speaking up for you on

8:02

the issues that you care about and

8:05

his co-leader, Karla Denier said,

8:07

you know, now's the time to be

8:09

ambitious, not unrealistic but ambitious and

8:12

these certainly are some ambitious

8:14

objectives. Yeah, yeah. It

8:17

is like a wish list, Christmas wish list

8:19

about what do you really want? What can

8:21

we be ambitious towards? What can we aspire

8:23

towards as opposed to what can we feasibly

8:26

do? The whole green stance

8:28

this election has

8:30

been pretty much furthering the very line Grand

8:32

Chaps has been furthering which is that this

8:34

election is a done deal so why don't

8:36

you vote for a party that will hold

8:38

the Labour Party's feet to the fire? It's

8:40

a line that I'm not sure whether it

8:43

will have breakthrough because to reiterate as we've

8:45

said before the proportion of people who pay

8:47

attention to politics to the news is always

8:49

low and the proportion of people who think,

8:51

you know, this election is a done deal

8:53

for Labour is only

8:55

around about 50 something percent. It's

8:58

not, you know, not all of us

9:00

think Labour's going to sweep this. There

9:02

are great portions of us who are

9:05

still undecided, still unsure about who's going

9:07

to win really and so this

9:10

green messaging is very much an appeal

9:12

to the logged on type of voters,

9:14

those who do pay attention, those who

9:16

yes probably are living in Brighton and

9:18

Bristol and elsewhere and, you know, more

9:20

affluent areas and these the policies, the

9:22

manifesto they've announced is yes

9:24

very much like a wish list. If you were to poll

9:26

every issue, most issues, the stuff about

9:29

housing, the stuff about public ownership, you

9:31

know, in isolation it's popular. It's

9:33

similar to the manifesto of Labour in

9:35

2017 and 19 but what

9:37

I would always say when you look

9:40

at manifestos like that, in isolation they're

9:42

all popular policies, you know, in isolation

9:44

I emphasize but when you ask of

9:47

the brand, when you ask voters do you

9:49

think this brand, this band of people, this

9:51

team, do

9:53

you think they can implement those policies and

9:55

do you think they are competent to do

9:57

so, there is often a bit more doubt. There's

10:00

often a bit more uncertainty, and that's

10:02

why when you have policies like these,

10:04

they only pick up steam. They

10:07

only really propel you to victory when

10:09

you're seen as competent. That's

10:11

why the Corbyn manifestos of 17 and 19

10:13

didn't really ... They were objectively popular,

10:18

but they didn't carry any perception of

10:20

competence with them. That's why if

10:22

it was adopted by Labour, if these policies were

10:24

adopted by Labour, it would

10:26

be a hard sell if the leadership

10:28

were not seen as competent. The good

10:30

thing for the Labour leadership though is

10:32

they are seen as mostly competent, mostly,

10:34

I emphasise. Because you're not seeing

10:36

the caution in the Greens manifesto in

10:39

terms of the economy that we've seen

10:41

with the Conservatives, and obviously we'll get

10:43

the Labour manifesto tomorrow. But

10:46

the Greens are talking about an extra 50 billion

10:49

a year in health and

10:51

social care, obviously way more than

10:53

any of the other parties. They're

10:56

talking 4 billion over

10:58

the next five years to insulate

11:00

buildings, 9 billion over the next

11:03

five years on low carbon heating,

11:05

scrapping tuition fees. In

11:07

the world of work, wouldn't this be lovely? A

11:09

four day week, and there are also big increases

11:12

to the minimum wage, £15 per hour, and an

11:16

uplift to benefits as well. They've

11:19

said it's all costed, and

11:21

I guess the core would be this 8% rise

11:24

in national insurance for those earning

11:26

just over £50,000, and

11:28

these big, big wealth taxes

11:31

on the super wealthy. But does

11:35

it stack up, or really does it not

11:37

matter? Because as you say, they're

11:39

not going to be the ones handed power on July the 5th.

11:43

Manifestos don't often matter, and it's always

11:45

easy to say we're fully costed because

11:47

after the 2008 financial

11:49

crisis, every party was desperately rushing to prove

11:51

it was fully costed. I

11:54

recall the UKIP manifesto of 2015, they really

11:56

went out of there to say everything was

11:58

fully costed. detail,

12:00

they had written off 50, 20,

12:03

30 billion pounds worth of bureaucracy cuts. Can

12:06

you specify what those bureaucracy cuts are? No,

12:08

you can't. You probably can't. How many health

12:10

and safety offices are you cutting there? It's,

12:12

you know, fully costed, the economy is fluid.

12:15

It always changes, the forecast changes. It assumes

12:17

many things, and I don't think you can

12:19

make those assumptions. So fully costed doesn't mean

12:22

much. Does it matter? Does it matter that

12:24

the Greens are put out a quite frankly,

12:26

a very boisterous manifesto in which they're promising

12:28

a lot? Well, assuming they're elected, but

12:31

they have a nice little wish list here. No,

12:34

I don't really think manifesto launches

12:36

matter hugely. It all depends if

12:39

it changes effects, feeds the already

12:41

present mood music of the nation.

12:43

And that really is, for

12:46

example, Theresa May's manifesto launch,

12:48

you know, fresh conversations, a necessary conversation

12:50

about the need for social care. Once

12:52

you dug into the detail, you realize

12:54

what is this going to mean for

12:56

people? And it got people worrying, OK,

12:58

because it was such a alt out

13:00

of the blue in an election

13:03

campaign that was meant to be about Brexit, but

13:05

wasn't, which is why Corbyn's Labour did so well.

13:08

And so change the narrative completely. The

13:10

manifestos can make impactful the worse, but

13:12

not very often for the better. Yeah,

13:15

yeah, I really, I really do. I

13:17

really do think that which, you

13:19

know, if you are already seen as competent,

13:22

which is what Theresa May's conservatives were just

13:24

about Corbyn's Labour were catching up on them

13:26

just just by a bit. That

13:29

was a bolt out of the blue to

13:31

sort of dis dispel preconceived notions. The launch

13:34

of the Green Manifesto is not going to

13:36

get much, if any traction. What they should

13:38

be focusing on is the number of seats

13:40

that they can win in Bristol, in Brighton

13:42

and maybe even in rural Suffolk

13:44

as well. Thanks, Ben. Well,

13:46

after the break, I'm going to ask

13:48

you to take us through the polls, including the

13:51

electoral prospects for the Greens and

13:53

what you've been analysing on State of the Nation this

13:55

week. If you're subscribed to The New

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That's the words High Speed

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and the number one.co.uk. Okay

15:12

Ben, you've mentioned Bristol,

15:14

Brighton, rural Suffolk. Take us through

15:16

how the Greens are actually polling

15:18

at the moment. It

15:21

is a tough ask. It can be

15:23

a tough ask because in 2010 when

15:25

they struck through and got Caroline Lucas

15:27

selected in Brighton Pavilion, the national polling

15:29

did not point to it whatsoever. They're

15:31

a bit more established than that now.

15:33

They're currently polling, according to

15:35

Britain elects, around about 6%. They've

15:38

been hovering around that for a while and I

15:40

don't know, it's not comical, it's a bit quite dramatic,

15:42

but every time there's a heat wave their numbers

15:44

do rise a little bit, just by half

15:46

a percentage point or two. Then

15:49

they're going to be terribly then because I think we've

15:51

woken up in autumn, we've skipped summer completely. Yes,

15:54

I was out yesterday and I was just like,

15:56

this is freezing, I'm wearing a t-shirt. It's terrible,

15:58

but to be honest I love coffee. the

16:00

weather so I'm buzzing about this election campaign

16:02

actually despite the loads of stress it's given

16:04

me. So yeah they're polling six

16:07

percent roundabout that's good enough for them

16:09

that would net them nine indeed about two to

16:11

three million votes you know if the election was

16:13

held now but of course it's

16:15

going to be concentrated in places they need to

16:17

be targeting and they currently

16:20

have one seat, Brighton Pavilion, which

16:22

the jury is out presently out

16:24

on whether they can actually hold.

16:27

The Greens ran the council for a

16:29

fair while not as a majority but

16:31

in coalition and after

16:33

they ran it they were roundly kicked out

16:36

at the local elections last year so much

16:38

so that Labour swept it and topped the

16:40

poll across much of the Brighton Pavilion seat.

16:42

Now that has got a lot of Labour

16:45

bigwigs talking a lot of Labour strategists thinking

16:47

oh we could do this and when they

16:49

went for the selection they thought this is

16:51

a key seat for us. The Greens have

16:54

shown Sharnberry from London to go for it

16:56

and they are busing in dozens and dozens

16:58

of activists so I think the Greens and

17:00

Labour know it's up for

17:02

contention. Now there's

17:05

also the case of Bristol Central. Thangam

17:07

Debonair has a huge huge majority in

17:09

that Bristol seat. It used to be

17:11

Bristol West and it's become

17:13

Bristol Central even though it's even more western

17:16

as a constituency geographically but you know that's the

17:18

boundary commission is for you. It's

17:20

a tough ask there we just had

17:22

the local elections in Bristol. The Greens

17:24

swept it. They didn't just defeat Labour

17:26

they absolutely pummelled Labour. They're getting more

17:28

than 50% of the vote across all

17:30

of the wards which make up the

17:33

Bristol Central seat. It's a tough ask for

17:35

Thangam Debonair there because she has a personal

17:38

vote but she is part of a brand

17:40

that might not be particularly favourable in that

17:42

Bristol area. It's going to be a it's

17:44

going to be a challenge really how popular

17:47

can a personal vote be for you can

17:49

allow you to keep on. Britain predicts finds

17:51

it's a tight fight. Yougov finds the Greens

17:53

ahead. Let's see what happens there. I want

17:57

to ask you about the Lib Dems but just a quick one

17:59

before that We've mentioned

18:01

that the Greens and

18:03

bits of the Conservative Party at

18:05

least are pursuing in

18:08

a way the same policy. So Labour have

18:10

got this pincer movement from both sides, a

18:13

warning against them having a supermajority vote for

18:15

us kind of on the left to stop

18:17

them getting a supermajority, make them a bit

18:19

more progressive perhaps, vote for

18:21

us on the right to stop them getting

18:23

a supermajority to stop them having a field

18:26

day. Is that a threat

18:28

to Labour? Is there any danger that

18:31

people will buy that

18:33

narrative, you know, they're 20 points

18:35

ahead reliably and consistently? Are

18:38

they going to suffer because of that? They could. I

18:40

don't think they will, but they could. There's

18:42

a probability that it could happen and I reiterate

18:45

at the start, I don't

18:47

think enough people are paying attention to the

18:49

news to the point that they are so

18:51

sure Labour's going to get in that they're

18:53

going to change their voting intention accordingly. I

18:55

think a lot more logged on people of

18:57

greater affluence might change their vote, but I

18:59

think those are going to be in places

19:01

in which votes are already changing. So think

19:03

of much of Hertfordshire in which,

19:05

you know, people who might naturally go Labour

19:07

would go Libdenne and there are plenty of

19:09

seats in which that is already happening and

19:11

indeed also in Bristol and maybe in parts

19:13

of Liverpool, Manchester, Central and others, but it

19:15

will be in the areas in which most

19:17

people are paying attention to politics and

19:20

they are in representative areas. Okay. They are

19:22

the areas in which are broadly safe fish

19:24

for Labour. Nevertheless,

19:27

I do want us to pay attention to this. It's far

19:30

be it for me to focus on one

19:32

poll. Okay. You've always got to follow the

19:34

track as always, follow

19:36

the averages and such like, but there was

19:39

one poll that got me thinking maybe we're

19:41

onto something here and it was you

19:43

go up yesterday. Labour down to 38%, Libdenne's up

19:45

big leagues, reform

19:49

of big leagues and

19:51

the conservatives down to what, 18%. Now

19:53

the Labour lead there, 20 points comfortable

19:56

in line with what every poll tracker says

19:58

in line with what I'm saying. Standard

20:00

20-point lead, fine and dandy. But you

20:02

have to wonder, is this a sign

20:04

of something else? Is Labour support seeping

20:06

elsewhere? In theory, it could. Well, live

20:08

down to the big winners there, aren't

20:10

they? 15%. Big

20:13

winners, but when you delve into the

20:15

subsamples, i.e. the crossbreaks, you know, what

20:18

makes up the poll, you do find

20:20

some quite silly figures. But I

20:22

would nevertheless pay attention to it. I would

20:24

nevertheless pay attention to more polls, basically. Could

20:26

it be a sign that, you know, whilst

20:29

the Tory share is at rock bottom, Labour's

20:31

may just edge a little bit lower because

20:33

you have people being louder about their vote

20:35

for the Lib Dems and Greens because it

20:37

is a done deal? Well,

20:39

that might happen. I'm not sure, but I

20:41

think it's a possibility. But will

20:43

it change the arithmetic in the Labour v

20:45

Tory fights? Probably not.

20:48

I think, you know,

20:50

the current forecast, Labour on course, with 400 or more

20:52

seats, I think that's likely to still be born out.

20:54

I mean, that that you go of poll was

20:57

taken after the Lib Dems had launched

20:59

their manifesto on Monday. But everything you've

21:01

said that that wouldn't explain that the

21:03

four point uptick. The idea that the

21:05

Lib Dem launch for manifesto is going

21:07

to grab people's attention. And, you know,

21:10

Davey falling in a sewage filled

21:13

Cumbrian Lake is going to change people's politics. No, I

21:15

mean, it's good stunts for us to talk about, but

21:17

most voters are not paying attention to it. Any

21:20

threat to Labour, Ben, that you're

21:22

seeing in the numbers coming from

21:25

the fallout from Vaughan Gedding losing

21:27

this confidence motion? Yeah, yeah. So

21:29

Vaughan Gedding became a Welsh First

21:31

Minister. God, that was a few months

21:34

ago. Where was it? Was it March

21:36

or thereabouts? I can't remember. It was a very

21:38

tight fight, by the way. And I think it

21:40

really did come down to who the unions chose

21:43

to endorse. Now, Vaughan

21:45

started off pretty well with

21:47

Welsh voters. OK, he talked

21:49

about a review of

21:52

the 20 mile an hour speed limit, which has

21:54

been introduced across the whole vast majority of Welsh

21:56

roads, which does get mentioned in polling, which does

21:58

get mentioned in the mentioned on the doorstep and

22:00

does appear to be hurting life a little bit,

22:03

but I don't know to what extent. And

22:06

he started off pretty well. But the

22:08

for surrounding donations, coverups and such

22:10

like and indeed this boat of

22:13

no confidence does appear to have

22:15

trashed here what initial favourability he

22:17

had. And I

22:19

think it's something worth just mentioning.

22:22

There is an assumption I suppose amongst

22:25

a lot of us in England that you know, Wales

22:27

is going to be very easy for labour, but

22:29

the polling points to Labour's share of

22:31

support in Wales only going up by

22:33

a little bit, not by much. Okay,

22:36

the Tory share is crashing. A lot of

22:38

it is going to reform. Okay, and that

22:40

should probably work in enough Tory v Labour

22:43

seats. But you do

22:45

have what would be demographically Labour

22:47

voters in England, considering

22:49

other parties in Wales, some of them going

22:51

to apathy because of the Welsh First Minister

22:53

because of the Welsh government and such like

22:56

some of them considering plied comery, which is

22:58

the Welsh Nationalist Party. And

23:00

in places such as North Wales,

23:02

such as Rexxum, the Cluids, Bangor,

23:04

Abercrombie and Innismond, you do have

23:06

what are in essence tight fights

23:08

that might come down to the

23:10

wire because you have

23:12

prospective Labour voters not going

23:15

Labour, but either staying at home or

23:17

going plied as a protest to the

23:19

Welsh Senate, the Welsh Parliament. And

23:22

so that is something to just keep

23:24

an eye on. Finally, Ben, any inkling

23:26

of what's going on in Clacton and

23:29

Nigel Farage and reforms chances there? I

23:31

mean, he's not had a great week

23:33

personally, he's had more things thrown at

23:35

him yesterday while being on the campaign

23:38

trail. I believe he's

23:40

getting extra security. I mean, no one

23:42

would condone violence against

23:44

any candidate. But any sense

23:46

of what's going on in Clacton? Yeah,

23:48

I'm just pulling up the numbers now.

23:50

Oh, they just updated as I saw

23:52

them. So when we've seen that call

23:54

the election, we've formed around 11%, around

23:56

about 10, 11% in the polls.

24:00

up to 14 to 15% now, okay,

24:02

which is pretty, pretty, pretty notable. Now

24:04

in seats like Clacton, in seats like

24:07

the East, well, the whole

24:09

East Coast of England, you know,

24:11

small incremental increases with form are

24:13

big increases in seats like these

24:15

because it's where their perspective vote

24:17

is. When I last was on

24:19

this podcast, I did point

24:21

out that a small few percent up

24:24

for a form does give them Clacton,

24:26

does give them a few more seats,

24:28

and already the most recent Britain predicts

24:30

forecast has Nigel Farage on course to

24:32

take Clacton from the Conservatives, and the

24:34

current numbers as I just sit here,

24:36

you know, it's reformed 30%, Conservative 28,

24:41

Labour 22, and smaller parties like, you know,

24:43

the Greens and others, 8 and 8%. And

24:45

so that is actually

24:47

something we need to bear in mind as

24:50

well, you know, Labour's going to come away

24:52

with 40 something percent of the vote nationally,

24:54

but there's a hell of a lot of

24:56

seats that will be won with just 30%

24:59

of the vote or less, it ridiculous. And

25:01

what that is a consequence of the Tory

25:03

vote crashing, going everywhere, and Labour only getting

25:05

in on like with 29% in a seat

25:08

like oh god, Skipton

25:10

and Ripon, which I seriously doubt will happen or

25:12

the south of Herr and

25:22

the Great Portion of which just, you

25:24

know, by virtue of being European citizens

25:26

and not naturalized can't vote. So the

25:28

white English vote there is very much

25:31

up for grabs reform, it did do

25:33

very well for reform, and another right

25:35

wing party, the English Democrats, very

25:38

old party that in the

25:40

police and crime commissioner elections. And

25:42

then you've got other seats like

25:44

Castle Point, which I think some

25:46

of our competing journalist

25:49

sites have gone to interview this is the

25:51

most Tory town in England, why are you

25:53

still voting Tory? Well, turns out they might

25:55

not, turns out they might not some of

25:57

the torious towns that have a Tory. might

26:01

be turning away from the Tories

26:03

to reform. Castlepoint, Clapton, Boston's Gegnes,

26:06

and oh, it might just be that for

26:08

them. They might only have a ceiling of

26:10

three seats, if that. Ben,

26:13

thank you so much. Tonight,

26:15

plenty for political anoraks. We have Rishi

26:18

Sunak on ITV. Now that's the interview

26:20

that he left the

26:22

D-Day celebrations for. Doing

26:24

the rounds already is that his argument that

26:27

he did go without as well as a

26:29

child. What did he go without?

26:31

Well, Sky Television, make of that as you

26:33

will. But the big event tonight is on

26:35

Sky News with Beth Rigby. She's got 20

26:38

minutes with both Rishi

26:40

Sunak and Kia Stama separately,

26:42

and then they'll face

26:44

25 minutes of questions from the audience.

26:46

We're gonna go through that on the

26:48

podcast tomorrow, but also as the

26:51

rumours circulate that Labour will make changes

26:53

to capital gains tax, will take you

26:55

through what is and is not in

26:58

their manifesto. Thank you

27:00

so much for listening. If you'd like

27:02

to submit a question for us to

27:04

answer during this election campaign to discuss

27:06

on a future podcast, you

27:08

can do so at

27:10

newstatesman.com/you ask us. If

27:14

you're listening on Spotify, just scroll down

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on the episode page and type your

27:18

reply. Or if

27:20

you're watching on YouTube, you can leave

27:23

a question in the comments. You've

27:25

been listening to the New Statesman podcast, Hannah

27:28

Barnes and my colleague, Ben Walker.

27:32

This episode was produced by

27:34

Catherine Hughes and the video

27:36

was edited by Grace Braddock.

27:38

We'll be back tomorrow. The

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