0:00

Nigel,

0:02

pack your

0:04

bags. Erlon, I haven't packed yet, but

0:06

you know I am already planning my outfits. Should

0:09

we let folks know what this big announcement

0:11

is? Definitely. Ear Hustle

0:13

is going on tour. Woo-hoo!

0:17

I'm very excited, clearly. We're celebrating

0:19

our upcoming 100th episode, which

0:21

is the last episode of this season,

0:24

with a seven-city U.S.

0:26

tour.

0:27

And we might just be on stage in your

0:29

area. We'll be joined by some beloved guests from

0:31

Ear Hustle's past. Go deep into some

0:34

of our favorite episodes from the past 12 seasons.

0:37

And we'll have some banging live performances

0:39

on stage. You can see the full lineup

0:42

and details at EarHustleSQ.com

0:44

slash tour. And I can't wait

0:47

to meet all our listeners that supported us over the

0:49

years. I know, Erlon. That is going to be my favorite

0:51

part of this whole thing. Indeed.

0:54

Tickets go on sale Friday, October

0:56

6th at 10 a.m.

0:57

in your city. Go to EarHustleSQ.com

1:01

slash tour before they sell

1:03

out. I hope they sell out. You think they'll sell out?

1:06

I hope we got a lot of people that love us. I

1:08

believe we got a lot of people that love us. We're

1:10

about to find out. It's going to come see us. What

1:12

are you

1:12

going to wear? You know what? What? I'm

1:15

going to shop when I land. You're so laid back.

1:19

Attention shoppers, we now have taste

1:22

in aisle two. That's

1:24

right, Nodge. I mean, anyone can

1:26

bake bread. Few can rock

1:28

it. And Dave does just that. I mean, no

1:31

lie. Every day my sandwich is made on Dave's

1:33

Killer Bread. Right now, I cannot get

1:35

enough of that righteous

1:36

rye. Oh, I know. I see you at the

1:38

studio every day with turkey and cheese

1:40

on rye. My personal favorite,

1:42

though, is the good seed in the

1:44

yellow bag. That one's good, too. But

1:47

it's not just the taste. Dave's Killer

1:49

Bread is made with the highest quality organic

1:52

and non-GMO

1:53

ingredients. And you know, I got to mention

1:55

this, Nodge. Dave's Killer Bread

1:57

was built on the belief that second chances can change

1:59

lives.

1:59

lives when his founder Dave, the

2:02

guy with the guitar you see on every loaf, returned

2:04

to the family bakery after 15 years in prison. And

2:08

that's why at Dave's Killer Bread, they

2:10

proudly practice second chance employment,

2:13

hiring the best person for the job,

2:15

regardless of criminal

2:16

background. Visit Dave's Killer Bread

2:19

dot com to learn more and look for Dave's

2:21

Killer Bread in the bread aisle of your local

2:23

grocery store.

2:26

I am Kim Kardashian and the following

2:28

episode of Ear Hustle contains language

2:31

and content that might not be suitable for

2:33

all listeners. Discretion

2:35

is

2:37

advised.

2:42

We're at the Dream Center, International

2:45

Boulevard.

2:47

Going

2:47

in the back gate. That's

2:52

the bar going by.

2:57

This office is nicer than myself. You

3:00

ain't got a cell no more, you got a room. You

3:03

ever seen a room with a sink in it? Yes.

3:06

And a bunk bed? Yes. And

3:08

another dude with a felony? Yes. That

3:10

sound like a cell. No, it's a room. It's

3:12

a room.

3:13

Another dude with a felony? Okay.

3:16

Want to tell us where we are in New York? This

3:18

is my transitional house and it's the second

3:21

one I lived in since I got out of prison in

3:24

February. And we should get you to introduce yourself.

3:27

Sure thing. My name is Rahsaan

3:29

Thomas. Most people call me New York.

3:32

I started working for the Ear Hustle crew back in 2018

3:34

when I was still incarcerated at

3:37

San Quentin State Prison. And

3:39

now that I'm out,

3:40

I'm working with y'all on the outside as one of

3:42

the show's producers.

3:43

So we're doing something a little different this time.

3:46

You and E are driving this episode. Because

3:49

we're talking about something you've both experienced firsthand. And

3:52

that you're going through right now,

3:54

New York. That's right. Transitional

3:56

housing. New York, will

3:58

you tell them what that is?

5:59

And then one day, I

6:01

got a call from our parole agent and he

6:03

said report to a new spot.

6:10

So I've definitely been to this place that's called

6:13

the Dream Center. You know, I picked

6:15

people up there to go out to dinner and stuff, but

6:18

can you remind us what it's like?

6:20

It's

6:24

in a pretty rundown part of Oakland. It's

6:26

a three-story building with gates and cameras

6:29

inside there's a chow hall and a day room

6:31

where people hang out and watch this big TV. And

6:34

there's a lot of rules. There's a 9 p.m.

6:36

curfew.

6:37

And every time you leave or come back, you

6:40

have to be buzzed in.

6:41

There's a lock door and the second

6:43

floor you go through the first lock door.

6:46

You can let yourself out, but you gotta be buzzed in.

6:50

There's cameras everywhere, they see you, they know.

6:56

And so there's some little stuff that bugs me too, right?

6:58

So I brought one of those things up with Corey. He's

7:00

a supervisor at the Dream Center. So

7:03

one of my issues with the Dream Center, even though

7:05

the staff is bomb, but the

7:07

big design for I have with the Dream Center is there's

7:10

no sink in the bathroom.

7:12

So everybody you use the bathroom, you

7:14

have no choice but to touch a bunch of stuff

7:16

to get back to your room. We

7:19

took that complaint into consideration.

7:21

You're right, it is a health and safety

7:23

code. And with COVID going on,

7:26

you wanna minimize as many contaminants,

7:28

germs as you possibly can. What

7:32

we did do is put

7:34

hand sanitizers in a restroom. Where

7:36

are they?

7:37

I haven't seen them. I'm not taking anything, we might not replace

7:39

them in time, but they are in

7:41

the restrooms. If you go up there right now, there should be some

7:43

in all four restrooms.

7:45

I wasn't so sure about that. So, you

7:47

know, I wanted to go fact check. So my producer,

7:49

Amy and I went to go take a look.

7:52

Can you see my room right quick? Wanna get some ambia around

7:55

the joint?

8:00

All right, come on, you come and see

8:03

the league. Can't say. Cory

8:05

was definitely a little nervous about letting me

8:07

and Amy go upstairs. Because there's a strict

8:10

rule at the Dream Center, right? You can't

8:12

bring women inside. But eventually

8:14

he gave in and we ring up to take a look. Going

8:22

up the stairs to the Dream Center. You

8:24

got to be in great shape. Ain't no elevators. Knock,

8:26

knock. Anybody in? All right. This

8:31

is what I call a cell. It

8:34

has some bump bed right here. There's

8:36

no top bunk. Just because there's no mattress here. I mean,

8:38

it won't put one one day and move somebody in

8:40

on me. This is my snow and snowy

8:42

bed. So

8:45

this is a room for four people. Well,

8:47

up to three actually. There's a set of bump

8:49

beds and a single. The room is

8:51

maybe like 12 by 12 feet.

8:55

There's two dressers and it's like this bar

8:57

going across. You can hang your clothes on because there's

8:59

no closet. There's a big ass spider in

9:02

there too. Oh, and there's a big ass spider

9:04

in there somewhere.

9:05

It's a pretty tight quarters. All right. Why

9:07

don't I stay on the show real

9:08

quick? While we were up there, I needed to set the

9:10

record straight about those alleged hand

9:13

sanitizers in the bathrooms.

9:15

Ain't no hand sanitizer.

9:19

Ain't no hand sanitizer. For

9:22

full disclosure, there was hand sanitizer

9:24

on the second floor. But to this

9:27

day, I have never seen any on the third

9:29

floor while this, maybe somebody's taking

9:31

them. Okay. You have to

9:33

go back there. All right. Thank you.

9:36

This guy, Corey, the manager who was showing

9:38

us around, I was shocked that he put

9:40

over that janky bathroom setup because

9:42

Corey's meticulously clean. I

9:45

know that because we go way back.

9:48

Rosanna and I, we were roommates

9:52

at San Quinn State Prison. That was no room, bro. That

9:54

was a mother second sound. We

9:57

were, we were selling these at San Quinn State Prison. the

10:00

best cellies I had. This is the cleanest cellie

10:02

I've had. It was my

10:04

only qualm with you. He was just

10:06

sloppy. Cory

10:09

used to polish the toilet seat. Bruh,

10:11

ain't nothing wrong with that, bruh. I did the

10:14

same thing. Bro, it's a toilet

10:16

seat, not a Mercedes. Different levels

10:18

of clean it is. He thought the toilet was

10:20

a chrome rim.

10:24

When Cory was released from San Quentin, he

10:26

got sent to another transitional house that

10:28

sounds way worse than the one I'm in.

10:31

I was housed in a room with 18 people. So

10:34

there were just some very inhumane

10:36

conditions like feces in the toilet,

10:39

blood in the sinks, urine in

10:41

the showers. A lot of guys hear

10:44

complaint about the conditions. And

10:47

my first response is, hey, you're

10:49

eating and living here free. And I reflect

10:52

back on when people used to tell me that. So

10:54

I kind of have to check myself sometimes, you

10:56

know, and humble myself because you know what?

10:59

I used to be the one complaining. Now I'm the one

11:01

who get the complaint. So I have to

11:03

be empathetic. Yes, I do.

11:07

Okay, honestly, I know some of the stuff

11:09

I'm complaining about might sound nitpicky,

11:12

but you know, I

11:14

am happy to be living rent free. I

11:17

know that's a big deal. I guess my

11:19

real issue is that I already had a job

11:21

coming home. I already had an apartment waiting. I

11:25

felt like I was ready to be free, ready to fly.

11:28

But instead I have to live in this transitional housing

11:30

with a bunch of strict rules that

11:32

kind of hold me back.

11:34

You and I, we were really ready to get

11:36

out and hit the ground running. I mean, we spent

11:38

a lot of time in prison getting ourselves

11:40

ready for that. But for a lot

11:42

of other formerly incarcerated guys, they

11:44

ain't ready. So the

11:47

transitional house is kind of

11:49

like one size fits all.

11:51

Unfortunately, it's an umbrella,

11:54

you know, and everybody has to fall under that

11:56

umbrella. We can't make rules and

11:59

have things. mandated for

12:01

this population and not mandated

12:03

for their population because everybody

12:06

is housed here and we try to keep everything

12:08

in unison.

12:11

There's a lot of stuff like that. I mean, some

12:13

people have to do drug and alcohol counseling

12:16

at their transitional home, even if

12:18

they have no history of addiction. Because if they're

12:20

there, they got to do the classes. And

12:22

then there's the saving account. Right. Everyone

12:25

at the transitional home has to put money into a savings

12:27

account with no interest at the transitional

12:30

house controls. So every time you get paid, they

12:32

take a portion out of your check and then they

12:34

give it back to you when it's time to leave the transitional

12:37

home. So when you get out the program,

12:39

you have some money saved up. And this too

12:41

is not optional. Even if you already have a bank

12:43

account, you'd rather use instead.

12:45

A lot of guys come here. They

12:48

don't know how to budget. They don't know how to save

12:51

money. And they graduate from the program

12:53

penniless. They got the most

12:56

glamorous wardrobe you can think

12:58

of. No vehicle and

13:00

no place to live. You

13:04

guys know how to save your money because

13:07

you prepare for that when you was incarcerated

13:10

to learn how to budget, finance, so

13:12

on and so forth. These guys literally, nine

13:15

times out of 10, they have no structure. They

13:17

have no discipline. They have no

13:21

way of putting their life in order.

13:23

So the reason we ask people for trust

13:26

withdraws is basically for debt demographic.

13:28

So when they complete the program, they're

13:30

not going out in society penniless.

13:33

They have money saved so they can

13:36

have a place to move into with first and last

13:38

month's rent. So

13:40

I get it. Don't no one want to give their

13:42

money to someone who they don't want to give it to.

13:45

We do it for the betterment of

13:47

the resident.

13:59

What do you do these interviews for?

14:02

You never listen to the episode. I

14:04

never listen to who? Yeah, I saw the podcast. You

14:07

don't even know about it. Listen to that. I don't

14:09

ever listen to radio. This

14:11

woman, McCree, she also works at the Dream

14:13

Center. She's the one who's always at the desk

14:15

when I check in at night. Can you describe what

14:18

the front desk is like? That

14:22

front desk up there reminds

14:24

me of the cop

14:26

shop. The

14:28

women's prison, they have a desk that's

14:30

just like that. You have to stand in the line to

14:32

get in.

14:33

And I just hate, I hate that desk. No,

14:37

I hate that.

14:38

McCree has to deal with everyone. I mean,

14:40

including guys who just got out and might not be 100%

14:42

ready. Some

14:45

of them make it hard, but I guess maybe

14:47

it's probably where they came from. You never know,

14:50

you know. Some of them work. And

14:53

then some of them just stay around in here.

14:56

Don't do nothing.

14:58

Like Corey, McCree also spent a long time

15:00

in prison. And that's true with most of the staff

15:03

at the Dream Center. They've been there. They

15:05

know what we're dealing with. In McCree's case,

15:07

she spent almost 30 years behind bars.

15:10

When she got out, she didn't know where to start.

15:19

I missed the prison. I'm gonna be truthful. A

15:21

lot of people say that's crazy, but it wasn't for me

15:23

because that's all I've known.

15:25

My family was the prison,

15:28

the ladies in the prison.

15:30

I would call my counselor every

15:32

day. And then I would ask, well,

15:34

how's this person doing? Or how's that person doing?

15:36

You know, my counselor used to say, Cree, you

15:39

gotta start living out there.

15:42

So I had to adjust to

15:45

something I knew nothing about.

15:47

I'm sorry, but that part's very emotional

15:49

for me. I kind of dug into

15:51

myself because I needed to know who I was.

15:55

And that kept me going. It

15:57

was all new to me. Everything

16:00

had changed. I

16:02

didn't know how to use a phone. None

16:05

of that. Everything was new to me. It was very, very

16:07

lonely.

16:11

What saved McCree was this one lady she

16:13

met, a house manager at the transitional

16:15

home. We

16:18

called her Mama Sally.

16:19

Mama Sally was 72,

16:22

a Caucasian lady, like

16:24

one of them old grandmas. She really was. But

16:28

Mama Sally was down. I guess

16:30

from all the, you know, being around everybody, you know, being

16:32

in and out of prison, and you know, she

16:35

knew all the tricks in the trade. You couldn't run nothing.

16:37

Pass her. That's one thing. Everything

16:40

that happened, we

16:41

went to Mama Sally. We didn't care what it was.

16:43

You know, any of our issues, I know we poured

16:45

in issues over this lady.

16:49

I remember when my mother had passed, and

16:52

she came to me, and it was 2.30 in the morning

16:54

on July the 4th, 2005.

16:56

And she

16:58

said, "'Cree, I

17:00

was sleeping. That's kind of strange.

17:02

I'm sleeping one morning, man. I

17:05

need for you to come to the office, so I can talk to you."

17:08

So she takes me in there, and she tells me my mother had

17:11

passed.

17:13

She gave me every reassurance. She was like

17:16

my confidant then. She was my pillow. She would

17:18

not let me go back to my room. She

17:20

made me stay in there in her room, you

17:22

know, until the following morning, to the other ladies

17:24

from the program, the counselor got there, she

17:26

would not leave me alone.

17:28

She was like my grandma. She

17:31

was like my grandma.

17:33

She was like my grandma. I

17:37

love Mama Sally. Yeah.

17:45

Gentlemen, day room is now closed.

17:50

We're gonna take a short break. When we

17:52

come back, we're tapping in with our friend,

17:55

Zoh. Your old barber. Yep.

17:57

He just got out, and he's posted up at a transitional...

18:00

house in San Francisco. So let's

18:02

go see how he's holding up. We'll be right back.

18:04

A

18:07

lot goes into each Ear Hustle episode, but

18:10

there's so much more that happens outside

18:12

the episode. Yep,

18:13

and you can read all about it in the

18:15

Lowdown, our email newsletter.

18:17

Get bonus material, find

18:19

out about Ear Hustle events,

18:21

check out recommendations for the team, and

18:23

of course, Erlan, you know I love this part the best,

18:26

photos and messages from our listeners.

18:28

Yep, all this and more delivered

18:30

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18:32

Lowdown at EarHustleSQ.com slash

18:35

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18:36

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18:37

with each new episode. EarHustleSQ.com

18:41

slash newsletter.

18:52

Good

18:57

morning, everybody. I'm Agent Yee. I'm a parole

18:59

agent in San Francisco. Everybody

19:02

has been given a handout for parole conditions?

19:06

So I know for some guys

19:07

who are about to get released from prison, there's

19:10

anxiety and questions about, you know,

19:12

where are they going to end up? Right. So

19:15

at San Quentin, right, one

19:17

of the things that they do here is they have these

19:20

presentations where they bring parole officers

19:22

in and they come in, they

19:24

just answer all the guys' questions about

19:27

what the transitional housing process look

19:29

like. Like an orientation? Pretty much. I

19:34

don't have family. The

19:36

house got foreclosed. When

19:38

I get out, I just have a place to stay.

19:41

I can make it from there and get a job. And

19:43

first, you got to have a roof over your head

19:45

and be out there in the cold, be out there homeless.

19:48

Then that eventually turns

19:50

to the person getting stressed out, turning to drugs

19:53

and this and that, and the other whole bunch of stuff come behind

19:55

it. But when a person can have a place

19:57

to stay, in my area, that would help me.

20:02

And this guy, you know, we haven't

20:04

really heard this in the episode, but this guy

20:06

sounds like a bunch of people I've

20:08

talked to who are thinking about what it's

20:10

going to be like when they get out of prison.

20:12

Definitely. I mean, if

20:14

you spend a few decades in prison, sometimes

20:16

there's nothing to come out to. You

20:18

know, no job, no saving, no house,

20:21

no furniture, no clothes. You

20:23

know, it's just a lot of guys get out and they're on their

20:25

own. Yeah, and they really need help. Yeah.

20:28

You hear this girl? What happened with it, man? Oh,

20:31

come on, bro. Come on, bro. How you guys doing?

20:34

You're chilling, man. Let me see that. I

20:36

texted you like an hour ago to let you know we coming.

20:38

I said, text back to confirm. So

20:41

did you get the text, bro? I

20:43

probably did. I'm a dummy

20:45

when it comes to these phones, man, because

20:48

I didn't mess with them in prison or nothing.

20:50

So,

20:51

oh, I done lost it. Or I'm

20:53

trying to do this while I'm talking to my mother

20:56

or my father and I hang up on

20:58

them. I got to learn how to really,

21:00

really work that phone, that email and

21:02

texting and all. This

21:06

is Lorenzo. He just got out of San

21:08

Quentin about three months ago.

21:10

This guy was my old barber when I was

21:12

inside. You know,

21:14

I used to set my appointments up with him, go

21:16

to the yard or in the building and

21:19

get trimmed up. Yeah, that's his

21:21

trade. And it's what he really wants to be doing

21:23

on the outside too. But first he's

21:25

got to go back to school to get his license. So

21:28

while he's getting all that started, he's living

21:30

in a transitional home. This

21:33

is what they call a reentry home. I

21:35

know this place. It's called the GEO

21:37

reentry home. It's really

21:40

strict. Every time he comes back

21:42

in, they search his bags, pat him down,

21:45

run him through the metal detector. I mean,

21:47

Lorenzo can't even leave the building unless

21:49

he fills out a form that shows he's looking for a job.

21:52

And this GEO place, it's in a rough part

21:54

of town. It's like in the Bowery

21:57

or Skid Row area of San Francisco.

21:59

What is it like living

22:02

in this environment? How does that help you or not help you?

22:05

It makes me want to hurry

22:07

up and get a job and start working and

22:10

saving money because I

22:12

don't want to wind up like this

22:15

out here, you know? You

22:21

want to work. You see everybody

22:23

working. You see the cars. You see the

22:26

clothes. You see guys that functions. Man,

22:28

I want to get like early. I got one thing,

22:31

you know? But it's going

22:33

to take time. The

22:35

biggest problem is for a lot of us, we

22:37

want to rush everything. When you rush, you

22:40

run smack into that brick wall. So

22:43

I've learned to just take my time,

22:46

you know? Smell the flowers. Look

22:48

at the ocean. Hey,

22:51

you the most common rational underplayed butt-suck

22:53

I've ever been in my life.

23:00

I can totally get wanting to rush

23:02

and I've seen a lot of guys who are like that, like

23:04

they're just making up for lost time. But

23:07

it seems like it can actually take a while to get

23:09

on your feet and I feel like that's the whole point

23:11

of transitional housing. It's

23:13

supposed to be that buffer.

23:14

Yeah, I mean, and for Zo, it turned

23:17

out to be this other thing too. It's

23:19

a place where he's around a bunch of cats

23:21

that pretty much are in the same boat and

23:24

these are the ones that's happened to him out.

23:27

I have been sitting on my bunk

23:30

and guys have just, my phone rings.

23:33

What's up? You ain't going to say nothing? I'm

23:35

like, who is this? Man,

23:39

this is Joe.

23:41

Joe? Little Joe used to play basketball

23:43

with you. Oh, what's up, Joe?

23:46

Joe came and got me.

23:48

I don't know who told him, but

23:51

he said, come on. He's going over here to buy

23:53

you a jacket. You need a jacket.

23:56

And I'm still to this day trying to figure

23:58

out how did he know?

24:00

A.E. you remember Big Sky? Yeah,

24:02

the tall dude looked like a tree. That's him. He's

24:05

been helping Big Zoe out too.

24:07

Big Sky. He pulled

24:09

up.

24:11

And we've always been fanatics about

24:13

tennis shoes. He comes with a pair

24:15

of Jordans.

24:18

Nobody else has. And there, everybody

24:20

in the building is like, man, where'd you get those from? And

24:23

I'm, my chest is out to here. My

24:26

friend gave these to me. You

24:28

know? People are giving

24:30

me money. People are buying me clothes,

24:32

taking me to eat, taking me to

24:34

see the sights. Wow. These

24:39

are the same guys I was with in prison.

24:42

They didn't forget. It

24:46

feels good to not be forgotten.

24:59

How long have you been out?

25:01

I've been out since April. So,

25:04

already getting, actually three months now. Nice

25:07

to meet you. Like Lorenzo,

25:10

Isma is fresh out of prison. She's

25:12

been 10 years inside. And since she's

25:14

gotten out, she's been volunteering at this nonprofit

25:17

in Oakland, which is like an urban farming

25:19

type place near the freeway. I've

25:22

been volunteering here to actually

25:24

see if I could get an opportunity to work here.

25:29

It's a great challenge to unemployment.

25:32

But I've been looking around and I've been applying for

25:34

an application thing. But I still don't

25:36

know.

25:37

Isma is making

25:40

no money at all. She's just trying to get her

25:42

life back on track. If it wasn't for free

25:44

transitional housing, she'd be in trouble.

25:47

I have no family members, nobody

25:49

here. Because I transferred from Long

25:51

Beach to over here. So,

25:54

since I've been here, I've been

25:56

waiting. And sometimes the wait is

25:59

kind of like overwhelming.

25:59

me too because it's like I want to start

26:02

working, I want to start having income, and

26:04

I don't want to depend on nobody, I want

26:06

to depend on myself, you

26:07

know. I have to

26:10

use those coping skills of,

26:12

okay calm down, be

26:14

positive, everything's just fine.

26:18

Sometimes even if you do the self-talk,

26:21

sometimes I ain't working.

26:24

One thing making it hard for Isma to get started is

26:26

that she's gotten bounced around in different parts

26:29

of the state. Initially she

26:31

got told she would be paroled to Alameda County

26:33

near San Francisco, but there was

26:35

a clerical error and she got sent to Southern

26:38

California instead.

26:39

I was approved to be in Alameda

26:42

County. They sent me to Alameda Street,

26:44

L.A. Never been to L.A. in my life, ever.

26:47

So it

26:49

was all bad.

26:50

It took

26:52

like two months, but Isma's parole

26:54

officer corrected the error and got

26:56

her into a transitional house in Alameda

26:59

County,

27:00

and it sounds like it's a nice one.

27:02

It's calm. It's different.

27:05

They're not on you. They let you be.

27:08

They actually trust you to do the right thing

27:10

and continue doing the right thing. So

27:13

they will help you if you need any counseling,

27:15

therapy,

27:16

just let them know. Any

27:18

questions you got, you could always talk to the staff.

27:21

It really doesn't matter. And

27:25

they don't charge you for no rent, no

27:27

nothing. So you could actually get back on your

27:29

feet. So that's a blessing.

27:32

Isma is dealing with something pretty different

27:35

than the other people we spoke to. For her,

27:37

it's not just getting a job or looking for a

27:39

place to live. It's dealing with the

27:42

aftermath of having left your children

27:44

when you got sent to prison. Isma had

27:46

two kids when she was arrested. Her son was

27:49

four years old and he got placed with a family

27:51

that said they wanted to adopt him, but

27:53

they wanted a close adoption, which

27:55

meant she had to cut off contact with him

27:58

entirely. My attorney said.

27:59

If you don't find today They're

28:03

not gonna adopt him and he's gonna be

28:05

in the system like up and down in different

28:07

homes. Do you want that for your son?

28:12

So I Said

28:14

okay. I have to not

28:16

be selfish. I'm finding a life

28:18

sentence And

28:21

if I'm gonna do like something good

28:23

in this life is give him up

28:27

Had to let him go

28:31

Is may also had a daughter who is just

28:33

a baby Is May's

28:35

daughter was taken in by another family too

28:38

and they raised her without telling her she's adopted

28:41

So to this day is May's daughter doesn't

28:43

know that is may exist

28:46

I'm not gonna be the one to destroy my

28:48

daughter's life If she doesn't know

28:51

who I am, I'm not gonna be selfish

28:53

and be like guess what? I'm your mother not doing

28:55

that to my little one because I love her. I'm

28:57

not doing that If the time

29:00

comes that she finds out the truth or something.

29:02

Okay, I will be there and I will face

29:04

it However

29:07

when it comes to my son Most

29:10

definitely I'm looking for my son. I

29:13

don't care. I don't care if I gotta go all

29:15

around the world I'm looking for my son

29:18

Cuz he knows who I am. He

29:20

was four years old when I left And

29:24

I will not give up even if he's

29:26

married or with another girl, I'm like, I'm sorry boo You

29:28

gotta go because this is my baby, you

29:31

know, I lost him for so many years Like

29:33

just let me be with my baby, you know,

29:36

and I don't cry my eyes out and kiss

29:38

him so much and just stare at him honestly

29:42

Yeah, what is it

29:44

like trying to transition back to society and

29:46

get your life together and you're carrying this

29:49

This worry about your kids and

29:51

all this pain

29:53

My biggest challenge is knowing that I'm

29:55

physically

29:56

free

29:58

And that I can look for my babies

30:01

and I can't. I

30:03

cannot hold him and I can't be around

30:06

him.

30:08

I have to carry that because I

30:10

caught that thing too. Nothing

30:12

in this world could really hurt me or break

30:14

me more than that.

30:21

So basically she's got a deadline. When

30:23

Ismae's son turns 18 legally

30:26

she can go find him. So she's got

30:28

four years to get back on her feet.

30:31

I always wanted to be in the medical field. I

30:33

always wanted to be a nurse. I

30:37

want to take something like that to my son

30:40

and my daughter one day you know where

30:42

yeah my mother went through this she put

30:44

us through this and look everything that happened

30:47

they could hate me fine

30:49

but I want them to see too. Life

30:52

was not easy for me but look how far

30:54

I got.

30:54

So they're

30:57

my motivation and they're gonna continue

30:59

being my motivation

31:00

and that's why even though I'm out here and

31:02

I don't know nobody and I'm having

31:04

a hard time with reentry

31:08

I'm breathing and I'm living for them and

31:10

I will make it.

31:19

Where are you coming from? I

31:21

was coming from the market.

31:24

What do you just got off work or where? No

31:27

I was just doing a side job. Alright so

31:29

you ready to go up? 903. Remember

31:32

when I told you about

31:37

curfew? Yeah

31:40

it don't matter though. Curfew's at 9 o'clock.

31:44

That's why you should

31:44

leave at another night. This was a few weeks ago. It

31:47

was at night right before curfew was up and

31:49

McCree was standing in front of the dream center. People

31:52

were checking in letting her know what was going on in their

31:54

lives. One guy offered to bring a barbecue

31:57

later. You know she was just shooting the shit

31:59

with the residents.

32:02

I'm proud of y'all, y'all just getting up out

32:04

here and getting your own house. We still

32:06

close to front door. Okay, but

32:08

you making it though. And as long as you

32:10

keep your nose clean there, then you fine. You

32:14

know, because this thing they call life is

32:16

not easy. The struggle is real, for real. It

32:18

really is.

32:21

Yo, this is what I see McCree doing like

32:23

every night. She knows everybody that comes

32:25

through. She knows their name, whether they're on the right

32:27

track or whether she needs to, you know, give them some

32:29

guidance. That's what makes

32:31

the big difference here, you know, when you live in

32:33

these types of situations, you know, whether the people that

32:36

work there treat you like an individual

32:38

or they treat you like something

32:40

else. And that's what helped

32:42

McCree, right? When she first got out, she

32:44

found Mama Sally who recognized what she

32:46

needed and was like a grandma to her. And

32:48

now that McCree's out and working in transitional housing

32:51

herself, I feel like she turned into her own type

32:53

of Mama Sally. Yeah,

32:55

that's what they call me, Mama Cree. All

32:58

of them. Mom, Mama Cree. This

33:00

fight. Whoa, okay.

33:05

When I pray in the morning, when I get up, I

33:07

pray that Mama Sally is up

33:10

there shaking it up like she's shaking

33:12

down here and then saying to her, Mama

33:14

Sally, I'm doing what you told me to do. I learned

33:16

from you. So I'm going to carry this torch that

33:18

you have. You know, so that's what

33:20

I try to do. She really made

33:23

me the woman that I am today.

33:34

You getting your little barbering on, huh? Oh

33:36

yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

33:39

You're working with hogs and razors? I have everything.

33:41

I've got

33:43

a couple pairs of scissors. I've

33:45

got clippers. I got capes. I've

33:47

got everything.

33:49

I'm fully functional.

33:51

This is Zoe. He's the cat we heard from earlier,

33:54

who spent 27 years in prison and

33:56

is now living in a transitional house in San

33:59

Francisco.

33:59

We wanted to check back in on Zou, to see what's up with

34:02

him and see if he got his barber career back on track. I've

34:05

been away for so long that my

34:07

license for cosmetology

34:10

has expired.

34:12

So I have to retake the

34:15

courts again. Right

34:17

now,

34:18

I'm a candidate for Paul

34:20

Mitchell

34:21

in San Francisco.

34:23

In the meantime, while he waits for that course to

34:25

start up, Zou got a job and is

34:27

saving money. In the transitional home

34:29

where he's been living, GEO Reentry Services,

34:32

the one with all the crazy rules about when you

34:34

can come and go,

34:35

they kind of lighten up on him.

34:37

Basically the staff has gotten

34:39

to know me and I've gotten to know

34:41

the staff. And the staff

34:44

kind of sees me and knows me that, okay,

34:46

this guy, he's not a

34:48

knucklehead. He's not going to be

34:50

a plumber for us. They still search

34:53

me, but it's a pat down

34:55

and go on about your business.

34:58

It's basically me getting used

35:00

to them and them getting used

35:02

to me. This man is

35:04

not going to be a threat. I'm not going

35:06

to be a problem. I'm here to reenter

35:09

into society the smoothest

35:12

and most

35:13

easiest way

35:15

that I can for myself. A

35:18

lot of people say, oh man, GEO,

35:20

this and that and the other. Yes, it is. It's

35:23

strict. It's real strict

35:25

and they're on you.

35:27

But now that I understand

35:30

because I have a job, I

35:32

have a lot of leniency.

35:34

So I've always looked at some of these transitional

35:37

housing as more predatory, more,

35:39

it's almost still

35:42

like prison, like you're not out, like you don't

35:44

have your freedom. Right. No,

35:47

you

35:47

do. There's a reason

35:48

why everything is done the way it's

35:51

done. There are a lot of guys

35:53

who are San Quentin that are here now. And

35:57

the first thing that they asked me was.

37:59

making sure that we're tight and

38:03

keeping us that way.

38:05

No, nothing else to me matters right

38:07

now.

38:25

My name is Miguel C. Puentes and I'm about to go

38:27

meet with Warden Elm Smith about

38:29

the basketball game I'm organizing between the COs

38:32

and the incarcerated residents of San Quentin,

38:34

coming up in a second. Ear

38:38

Hustle is produced by Nigel Poore, Erlon

38:40

Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce

38:42

Wallace, and Rahsaan New York-Thomas.

38:47

Shubnam Sigman is

38:49

the managing producer. The

38:51

producing team inside San Quentin

38:54

includes Steve Brooks, Daryl Sadiq

38:56

Davis, Tony DeTrinidad, and

38:58

Tham Nguyen. The inside managing

39:00

producer is Tony Tafoya.

39:02

Erlon Woods

39:04

sound designs and engineers the show with

39:07

help from Fernando Arruda, Rashad

39:09

Zinaman, and Daryl Sadiq Davis. Thanks

39:13

to Acting Warden Smith at San Quentin, Acting

39:15

Warden Hill, and Lieutenant Newborg at

39:18

the California Institution for Women for their

39:20

support of the show. Thanks

39:23

also to this woman here. I

39:26

am Lieutenant Giamarri Berry, the

39:28

public information officer

39:30

at San Quentin Rehabilitation

39:32

Center, and I approve this episode. This

39:35

episode was made possible by the Just Trust,

39:38

working to amplify the voices, vision, and

39:40

power of communities that are transforming

39:42

the justice system. For

39:44

more information about this episode, check

39:46

out the show notes on Ear Hustle's website,

39:49

EarHustleSQ.com. You

39:52

can also find out more about the show on Facebook,

39:54

Twitter, and Instagram at EarHustleSQ.

39:59

Please don't forget to sign up for our newsletter,

40:02

The Lowdown. Subscribe at EarHustleSQ.com

40:05

slash newsletter.

40:06

Special thanks to Pastor LJ Jennings

40:09

and the staff at the Dream Center and

40:11

to the folks

40:11

at Planting Justice for letting

40:13

the team stop by. Music

40:16

for this episode came from Antoine Williams,

40:18

Rashid Zinaman, Dwight Crisman, Joshua

40:21

Burton. EarHustle

40:24

is a proud member of Radiotopia

40:27

from PRX, a network of independent,

40:29

creator-owned, listener-supported

40:32

podcasts. Discover audio

40:34

with vision at Radiotopia.fm. I'm

40:37

Erlon Wood. I'm Nigel Poor. Thanks

40:40

for listening. 426 AM.