0:06

Welcome to Dragontop!

0:09

Yay! Yay, puppy!

0:12

Yay! We

0:13

have a fantastic show on this,

0:16

the official Dungeons & Dragons podcast.

0:18

It's coming at you hot, like the

0:21

hot sauce shirt I've got on right now. Shortage

0:25

over. There is sriracha

0:28

in this here podcast. It

0:30

is giant. It has

0:32

dragons, practically.

0:35

Almost complete. Almost complete.

0:39

But it does complete our wonderfulness

0:43

because we've got Mr. James Wyatt

0:46

on the interview today, joining

0:49

me, Greg Tito, and you, Shelly Mazenowal. Yes,

0:51

we love James Wyatt. Yay!

0:54

Yay! James is fantastic.

0:57

He's one of the best. Almost 10

1:00

years since I met James

1:04

at a little event in Durham, North

1:06

Carolina, that I was running. What?

1:08

What was that? It was for

1:10

the website that I used to work for. We had

1:13

a small little gaming convention there, and we

1:15

invited someone from Wizards, and James was like, oh,

1:17

yeah, I have some people down there. I'll go down

1:19

there. And so I cornered him at a party, and

1:22

we talked about D&D for like three hours. It was great.

1:25

No way. Yeah, and I think that's about 10 years

1:27

ago. It was about 2013.

1:29

Oh, my goodness. Maybe 2012, but I think

1:31

it was 2013. I bet that was a really

1:33

good conversation. It was.

1:36

It was. And, you know, he talked

1:38

a lot about all the amazing things that we're going to talk about

1:40

with him today, including myths

1:43

and, you know, religion and Dungeons &

1:45

Dragons, as well as the fanciful

1:48

creatures and their inspirations from our real

1:50

world.

1:50

James is great. Like, such an interesting

1:53

background and that he always

1:55

pulls from in his professional

1:59

life today.

1:59

It's very prolific. He's written a

2:02

number of novels,

2:03

and just in like over 20 years

2:06

of working

2:07

in game design has a lot of

2:09

books under his belt, including the

2:11

Dungeon Master's guides. So I just

2:14

think he's just very fascinating,

2:16

and you're gonna learn a lot, a lot

2:19

of cool insights, and become very inspired,

2:21

I think, by this interview. That's

2:23

right. That's what we're billing it as.

2:26

It's inspiration heavy, this

2:28

one. So let

2:31

us be inspired. Let us bring

2:33

the James Wyatt-ness into our brains

2:36

in the form of talking about two

2:38

amazing books that are coming out from D&D. Let's

2:43

welcome James Wyatt back to Dragon

2:45

Tag! Yay! James

2:48

Wyatt to the floor!

2:52

It's always great to be here with my biggest fan, thank

2:54

you. I think I am your

2:56

biggest fan. No wait, I am

2:59

the biggest fan! Hahaha!

3:06

Oh, to talk about all of the big

3:08

things that are happening in D&D. Just

3:10

large things happening. Big. Big

3:12

news. Very large. We got some giants

3:15

on the horizon. We have giants

3:17

that are occupying the entire horizon.

3:19

They're that big. These are no ordinary

3:22

giants. These are the biggest, but really,

3:25

James, how exciting. A wonderful

3:28

tome, Glory of the

3:30

Giants. And you

3:32

were at the helm of this beautiful book. I

3:35

was. Big B presents Glory

3:37

of the Giants. And it's big. It

3:39

is big. There's lots of big, giant,

3:42

wonderful things in this book, including, let

3:44

me get some more of your poetry.

3:47

Hahaha, yes. Oh, the

3:50

biggest poetry. They haven't stopped me yet. Why would

3:52

they? The book starts off with an

3:54

excerpt from Diane Castro's saga,

3:57

her story of claiming her divine

3:59

birthright. from her father, Anam, the

4:01

all father of the Giants. And so

4:04

of course I modeled the poem after Icelandic

4:07

and Anglo-Saxon poetry patterns

4:09

because I'm a nerd.

4:11

Which you like already knew about

4:13

or did you research? This

4:16

one I researched. With Fizzbans,

4:19

I started off with Homeric Greek poetry,

4:21

which I did know something about, but

4:23

here I started from scratch.

4:25

Wow. And this is, I mean, not

4:27

to keep using the word big, but this is a very

4:29

big saga. Like

4:32

it's a real deep, beautiful,

4:35

long

4:36

poem. That's what you want people to say about

4:38

poetry. Like your poetry is really big. So

4:40

big, man. I've been to some

4:42

poetry slams in my day. And

4:45

that is what all of the poetry experts said.

4:52

Big, that's big poetry, man. You

4:56

got big poetry energy. You do,

4:58

you do. So yeah, how

5:01

fun was it to go back into those

5:03

Norse Icelandic

5:06

kind of legends and kind of pull? Cause that's where I

5:08

feel like a lot of the giant lore

5:10

was inspired by in D&D to

5:13

begin with, right? There is certainly

5:15

a lot of that, especially

5:17

for the frost and fire giants, but

5:20

also like the cloud giant is

5:22

straight out of fairy tales

5:23

and Jack and the Beanstalk. And the Hill

5:25

giant, I think is very closely

5:27

related to Ogres as just sort of the

5:30

big lumbering brute wandering around the English

5:32

countryside or whatever. So yeah, there's

5:34

a range of sources and I spent some time

5:36

digging around in a lot of them, but primarily

5:38

this book is about D&D giants. And

5:42

there's enough lore about them established

5:44

in the history of D&D that that's what I wanted

5:46

to

5:47

bring out and explore most, not

5:50

go deep into the Icelandic sagas

5:52

or anything like that. So yeah, tell us about

5:54

Dain Kastra. That's her name, right?

5:57

Dain Kastra, yeah. So she is the youngest

5:59

child.

5:59

of Annam. The children of Annam

6:02

are the gods of the Giants. The Monster

6:04

manual talks about them a little bit and Bigby

6:06

presents the glory of the Giants, goes into them in more

6:08

detail. There's one son for

6:11

each branch of the giant family tree

6:13

and a number of daughters as well, and then a couple

6:15

of, like, Carantor is the

6:17

ancestor of the Fomorians, and we haven't

6:19

really talked about in this edition of D&D

6:22

before. What is the story there? We talked

6:24

about him a little bit. But Diah Castro

6:27

is identified as a demigod. Her mother

6:29

was a mortal giant, and she is

6:32

sort of this rebellious child. She

6:34

doesn't really go in for the

6:37

hierarchical ranking of giants and the ordening.

6:39

She spends a lot of time in the material

6:41

world where she encounters Bigby in

6:44

this book, and she's sort of a patron

6:46

for giant adventurers

6:48

and misfits and

6:51

rebels, so a good voice for this book

6:53

alongside Bigby.

6:54

Yes, because Bigby, well, it's Bigby presents

6:57

this book. Bigby does present it. So

7:01

Bigby appears as the narrator of

7:04

this book. He's sort of, he's sort of, I think

7:06

of it as he's leading us along on his

7:08

journey of discovery about giants. He starts

7:10

off,

7:11

we see him at the very beginning of the book actually

7:13

getting killed by a giant.

7:15

He is restored to life in a new body,

7:17

thanks to his buddy, Mordenkainen.

7:20

That's a good friend.

7:21

Yeah, yeah, you could say that. And

7:25

so he starts off from this position of thinking

7:27

of giants as enemies and monsters

7:30

to be combated. But then he meets

7:32

Diah Castro, and he goes on this journey of discovery

7:34

and learns the glory of the giants, the

7:37

majesty of their civilization and their

7:39

culture and history, what they've lost

7:42

and what they're trying to regain. And

7:44

he brings us along on that road,

7:46

and we see him at the end of the book sort of setting off

7:49

for New Horizons and inviting

7:51

us to join him on those further explorations.

7:53

And that's kind of what this book,

7:56

in reality, is setting out to do

7:59

as well because... because giants are,

8:01

there's a lot more to their

8:03

mythology and to their history and to

8:06

what people may have thought.

8:09

They're not just like big, big monsters.

8:12

Like there's so much more depth to

8:14

them. So how did you go about

8:16

presenting that information or how

8:19

do you even know like which information

8:21

you're, I mean,

8:23

it's a tall

8:24

order James. I'm

8:26

not stopping with the pens, I'm sorry.

8:30

There's so much and then there's new stuff,

8:33

but how do you present this? How do you do it?

8:35

So it's funny, like Big

8:37

B's journey in some ways is also my, because

8:39

when I started off this book, you know, it came from

8:42

writing Fizzbans, Treasury of Dragons to this. And

8:44

Fizzbans was like, yes, dragons. And Big

8:47

B's was like, okay, I guess I'm

8:49

writing about giants. What the heck am I gonna write

8:51

about giants? And so it was

8:53

fun for me to dive into

8:55

them and

8:57

rediscover their mythology and

8:59

what makes them really cool monsters

9:02

to use in a D&D campaign. And really

9:04

that's always my lens, right? Is

9:07

what's gonna make this book super

9:09

useful for DMs who are building a

9:11

campaign or need inspiration for

9:13

the next adventure or just want a cool encounter

9:15

with giants to throw at their players. What can

9:17

I do to inspire that? So, you know,

9:20

the book covers the gamut from, okay,

9:22

let's talk big mythological things. And what

9:24

if you want to have giant scions

9:27

of the giant gods holding up the dome

9:29

of the sky above the world and dragons

9:31

are attacking them? Go, there's your campaign

9:34

set up. From that big mythic level

9:36

to, here's some encounter tables

9:38

of different ways you might encounter hill giants

9:40

or their associated creatures out

9:42

in the wild. Go. And, you know, in between

9:45

there's location maps and

9:47

tons and tons of adventure hook ideas

9:50

and a great big chapter of new monsters

9:52

to use stuff like that. There's a lot

9:54

of monsters. There's a lot of monsters. A

9:57

lot of monsters. Most of them are big.

10:00

Well, Laurie,

10:03

you brought it up. So let's talk about the monsters

10:06

first. Is there, I mean, it really is

10:08

like, oh, I'm a beastie area, but over 70

10:11

or so over 70 monsters in one

10:14

book. It's,

10:15

uh, do

10:18

you, so what, what would be, what are, do

10:20

you have favorites? Can you even pinpoint a

10:22

few that you're just really excited about?

10:23

So I

10:25

hesitate to even say this, but I love the giant

10:28

goose. Oh yeah.

10:30

The giant goose ever since you started talking

10:33

about this book many, many moons ago, it feels like

10:35

the giant, the giant goose stood out.

10:38

Yes. I mean, it is, it is definitely the product

10:41

of both, you know, rich folkloric

10:43

imagination and a particular cultural

10:45

moment from a couple of years back now.

10:48

But the fact that we've got an illustration of a giant goose

10:50

holding a sword in its beak, like this is clearly

10:52

a goose that is up to no good, but

10:55

it also comes with a table for determining the

10:57

contents of the golden egg it lays and

11:00

a ridiculous amount of behind the

11:02

scenes math I did calculating how much

11:04

gold is in the shell of a golden egg. When you break

11:06

it open and melt it down. I have a pharmacist

11:08

for the giant goose, but the book is not

11:10

about geese. It's about giants.

11:13

How much gold is there now? What

11:16

was the result of that mask? I

11:18

forget. I think it's like 100 gold pieces worth.

11:21

Oh. Just based on weight.

11:24

The golden goose lays the egg

11:27

and all you get is an easily 100 gold pieces.

11:30

The size of the shell and the proportion

11:33

of width to height so I can get

11:35

a sense of the the total

11:37

volume and that's how thick

11:39

is it. So subtract that inner diameter

11:41

from the outer diameter to get the volume of the shell.

11:47

I just want people to know that that's the kind

11:49

of thought that goes into these

11:51

books. Do

11:53

you have to scratch paper after that? Sitting around

11:55

making up ideas, but no there's hard math,

11:58

study math kids.

11:59

I

12:02

want a picture of that whiteboard and all

12:05

the calculations that you had on there with you

12:07

doing like a scratch of the beard in front

12:09

of it.

12:10

Is this goose that you become so fond

12:12

of the goose that's on the cover? It

12:15

is on the back cover of the book, yes. Because

12:18

I love the goose. But enough about

12:20

the goose. It's a book about a goose.

12:23

Got it. Because there's also

12:25

tons of giants in here. Probably

12:27

my favorite giants are the scions

12:30

of the giant gods. We have six

12:32

different flavors of god-like giants.

12:35

These are the generation

12:38

or some number of generations in between

12:40

Anam and his children and

12:43

the giants of today. We have these colossal

12:46

giants who are just part

12:48

of the landscape. That folklore

12:51

trope of we built a village

12:53

on the giant's back and then the giant got up and walked

12:55

away and the village was destroyed. That's

12:57

what these scions are for. So

13:00

they're these awesome epic mythic

13:02

monsters. They're

13:05

super cool mechanically and from a wild

13:07

look at that standpoint. The art is

13:09

just tremendously evocative of these epic

13:11

battle scenes. But I

13:14

really love them for sort of the world building potential

13:16

there. I talked about the idea you might have giants

13:19

holding up the dome of the sky, these scions of the

13:21

giant gods, or there might be a mountain

13:23

at the center of the world where six of these

13:27

scions live and

13:29

you might

13:30

send your characters there for some reason. Just

13:33

the storytelling potential of these

13:36

newly divine beings situated

13:38

in the world representing the giants excites

13:40

me. That is really neat. What an epic encounter.

13:43

Not even combat wise, but just to

13:46

be in the presence of these

13:49

giant scions and have

13:51

them not be cars is really cool.

13:55

But

13:57

now we know what the car was named after.

14:00

Obviously. It's true, these giants. Right. Yeah,

14:02

that's awesome. Are they friends? Do they get along?

14:05

Do they have personalities in which they

14:08

interact with each other? So the scions are

14:11

not unique individuals. There could be any

14:13

number of them. Really, it's up to the DM

14:15

in their world building. And

14:18

they might get along, or they might have as much rivalry

14:20

as the lesser orders of

14:22

giants have with each other. I would believe that.

14:25

Right. Yeah, that seemed to make sense. And they're

14:27

direct descendants of the

14:30

children of Anand. Yeah.

14:32

How does that work with the whole multiverse cosmology

14:36

in the way that we think about

14:38

it? Is it these giants that happened

14:40

in one world, and then were spread

14:42

to other worlds? Or how

14:44

do you think about it as a DM? I tend to focus

14:47

on my world when I'm building a world. But

14:49

there is an idea

14:50

presented in Daincaster saga that Anand

14:53

was responsible for collecting the

14:55

bits of the first world and turning

14:58

them into the worlds

15:00

of the multiverse as we know them now. So his

15:02

influence has certainly felt on every world.

15:05

Maybe he's got a full set of

15:07

scions on every world. That's where

15:10

the giants of each world came from. Maybe

15:12

there are only six in the entire multiverse, and they're

15:14

all on different worlds. And you've got to do a

15:16

campaign where you go find all six. That could be

15:18

fun. Now I kind of want to run that. That

15:20

sounds

15:20

really fun. Look at that. I'm getting inspired

15:23

right here on the spot. Yep.

15:27

I mean, that's what this book is for. It looks like it, right?

15:29

It's all about

15:30

sparking your imagination to do cool

15:32

stuff in your game.

15:34

And as much kindling

15:36

as I can provide for those fires throughout

15:39

the whole book, that's what I'm going to do. That's

15:41

cool. Yeah. Would you say that

15:44

you are known

15:46

for providing a particular

15:48

type of kindling? Like, is there something that's

15:50

like, oh, that's got James Wyatt written all

15:52

over it. Like, do you have, is

15:54

there like- I don't know. Cherrywood.

15:57

I don't know what I'm known for. I

15:59

have no idea. I feel like

16:01

you had the practically complete

16:04

guide to dragons is also something

16:06

that you also

16:08

helmed. And then Fizzbands, obviously

16:11

you've done a lot.

16:12

You have a very illustrious career. Twenty-three

16:15

years. Twenty-three years.

16:18

But a lot of these books that

16:20

are really deep in lore and history

16:23

and mythology and poetry

16:25

have your hand on

16:28

it. So I'm just wondering if there's something

16:30

about him that you gravitate

16:32

towards or if you're just like, I

16:35

can just tell great stories. And I know the

16:37

type of kindling that Dungeon

16:39

Masters need to also tell great stories. I

16:42

think that's probably it. I

16:44

mean, I've written a number of Dungeon

16:47

Masters guides now. And a lot of

16:50

my thinking about the game is

16:52

rooted in

16:53

providing inspiration to Dungeon Masters. So

16:56

books like this are really good expressions

16:58

of that for me. And it's

17:00

also true that I come at that

17:03

task from the perspective of

17:05

a background in studying world religion.

17:07

And so I tend to think a lot about mythological

17:10

aspects of things. And it's funny,

17:12

I had a conversation a while ago talking about

17:15

the multiverse as a phenomenon and how

17:18

the word has come into the geek vernacular

17:21

thanks to things like Loki.

17:24

But that is a different multiverse

17:26

than ours.

17:27

That is a theory of

17:30

multiverse-ness that is rooted in science

17:33

and the idea that actions in time

17:35

create branching realities. And that is not

17:38

what the D&D multiverse is.

17:41

And where my

17:42

imagination really starts to sing in thinking

17:44

about places that exist in multiple

17:47

worlds at once or move

17:49

from world to world, adventures

17:51

exploring that kind of thing. There's

17:54

something more mythically grounded

17:56

rather than scientifically grounded in the way I think

17:58

about it. Like all of

17:59

these worlds are distorted

18:02

reflections of the first world that we talked

18:04

about in Fizzbans, and

18:07

sort of a platonic ideal. The first

18:10

world is the platonic ideal of world,

18:12

and all these other worlds are distorted expressions

18:15

of that.

18:15

And so

18:16

traveling from world to world or finding

18:19

the intersection points of worlds is an opportunity

18:21

for us to explore what the platonic

18:23

ideal underneath them all is, something

18:26

like that. I have not really, this is

18:28

the most I've actually talked through

18:30

this notion that's been niggling at my

18:33

mind for a couple of months now, but that's what it is.

18:36

So the question was, what are

18:38

my fingerprints on books like? I think that's

18:40

it. Is that mythic sensibility, looking

18:42

for mythical roots underneath things?

18:45

Well, and then those are all extensions

18:47

of Earth, right? And we are

18:49

human and we're all making these stories up.

18:52

And so I always, I'll

18:54

do it one further and be like, even the first

18:56

world is a echo

18:59

of our own

19:00

myths out there and

19:02

everything, right? Yep. Or

19:05

are we an echo of it? Oh,

19:08

it's getting too deep for me. There's

19:12

big monsters in these mythical- Joey

19:14

talked about the dinosaurs!

19:17

The world is dinosaurs. Bigger than

19:20

any real world dinosaur. We

19:22

got the biggest dinosaurs. Oh

19:24

my God. There actually are really big dinosaurs

19:27

in this story.

19:27

No, there are. We have four

19:30

colossal dinosaurs in this bestiary.

19:32

D&D has always had dinosaurs and it's

19:34

always had scientific

19:35

dinosaurs. And

19:38

so again, here I am, these are the mythic

19:40

dinosaurs. These are the dinosaurs

19:42

that are the proto-dinosaur,

19:45

the dinosaurs at which all other dinosaurs

19:48

are merely distorted images. So

19:50

we've got colossal dinosaurs in here. That's

19:53

what dinosaurs are. Where did they come from in

19:57

the mythology? Where did these huge- colossal

20:00

ones, are they the pets of the scions? Domesticated.

20:07

Part of the mythology of D&D's

20:09

giants is that they

20:12

are

20:13

the representatives of a lost ancient world.

20:16

In the Forgotten Realms, they had their ancient

20:18

empires tens of thousands of years ago.

20:21

In Iberon as well, they had an empire

20:23

in Zendric that fell in a war with dragons. And

20:26

that's rooted in things like, it's

20:29

related to stories like, Journey to the Center

20:31

of the Earth, or Gulliver's Travels, where you

20:33

go to a lost world

20:36

that is where everything is oversized.

20:39

And so

20:40

you might have a giant

20:42

populated sort of dineotopia where

20:45

giants and their ancient buddies are

20:48

still walking around. I mean,

20:50

from the earliest incarnations of giants in

20:52

D&D, they were often associated with prehistoric

20:55

animals like spotted lions and

20:57

cave bears were listed among their

20:59

pets.

21:00

So in addition to some

21:02

nods in that direction, like we've got a Titanothier

21:05

in

21:06

this book. We also sort of extend

21:08

that back and say,

21:09

giant

21:10

dinosaur friends. Does it end like a King Kong

21:12

Godzilla, kind of like this

21:15

mythic world underneath ours. But

21:18

in ours, it's just another world. Just

21:21

another shard of reality. I

21:23

love that. And now a dinosaur, a colossal

21:25

dinosaur as a pet. I think

21:28

yes, we all do.

21:29

We're gonna tame one, I think. I don't know where I would

21:31

keep it though. You

21:33

could probably, yeah. You could put that

21:36

goose on that beautiful lake that you live in. You

21:38

would join this one. You would

21:40

join Practically Complete

21:43

Guide to Dragons. Yeah, let's talk about that.

21:45

I love the idea of taking all

21:48

the stuff that you had thought

21:51

about and written for Fizzbans,

21:54

Treasury of Dragons, as well as the

21:56

other Practically Complete Guides and distilling

21:58

them in.

21:59

to one handy thing for folks

22:02

to be able to flip through and learn about

22:04

dragons. Yeah, so the Practically

22:07

Complete Guide to Dragons is

22:09

more or less a reprint of the Practical Guide

22:11

to Dragons we did in 2003? A

22:13

long time. Something like that? Good

22:17

grief. I think 20 years ago.

22:18

Wow. Along with material from the Practical

22:21

Guide to Dragon Magic and the Practical Guide to Dragon

22:23

Riding. And it's all sort of updated

22:25

with our modern perspective on dragons

22:28

and the multiverse. So the narrator

22:30

of that book is Sindri Suncatcher, who

22:32

is a tender wizard from Kryn. Kryn

22:34

is a world that knows a lot about dragons. There

22:36

are some things about dragons that are not true on

22:38

Kryn. And so, like, I don't think we've ever

22:41

seen kobolds on Kryn or dragonborn.

22:43

So I added some mentions

22:46

of kobolds and dragonborn from Sindri's

22:48

perspective being like, these are

22:51

things that my teacher has told me about that are

22:53

found on other worlds. There are other

22:55

worlds. Whoa, my mind is exploding. I want to go there.

22:59

Because that's Sindri. So yeah, it

23:01

is an updated perspective

23:03

on plastic material about dragons and a

23:06

fun read for all ages. Yeah. And

23:08

illustrated. Beautifully illustrated. Beautifully

23:10

illustrated.

23:12

Oh my gosh. And the graphic design

23:14

is

23:15

such a complete upgrade from the

23:17

last incarnations of these books.

23:20

It's practically complete. There's always more.

23:22

There's always more. James is always holding out

23:24

a little bit on us. He's like, I'm I

23:27

got more, but you're going to have to wait.

23:30

But what I love about this book

23:33

is that while it's not like

23:34

a rules book, it's

23:37

just fascinating tidbits

23:40

of information about the

23:42

most iconic fantasy creatures of all dragons.

23:45

So a great intro

23:48

to the world of Dungeons and Dragons

23:50

for anyone, really. But I think it's also

23:52

a really cool tool for

23:55

dungeon masters, especially maybe a

23:57

newer dungeon master that doesn't have

23:59

like.

23:59

these years and years of D&D

24:02

history and lore under their belt, you

24:04

can find great inspiration right here. But

24:07

it's

24:08

like, I was learning all sorts of facts

24:11

about dragons that I did not myself

24:13

know. I don't know all the facts. That's

24:15

why I'm not writing. What did you learn? Oh,

24:18

just like which ones like get along with other? Like,

24:20

I think like, that could be a cool story.

24:23

Like maybe, you know, I'm

24:25

thinking, you know, from a kid's perspective,

24:27

but like these two dragons aren't getting along.

24:30

And why is that? Or help, you

24:33

know, bring them back together? Or just,

24:35

I love the information about where they

24:37

build their lairs and

24:40

just thinking about like, if you have a party

24:44

of adventurers and they're in like

24:46

a mountainous area, like they

24:48

could totally run into like a dragon

24:50

that builds their lair on the side of a mountainous

24:52

cliff. They wouldn't be expecting that.

24:55

But I know that information now because I read

24:58

the Practically Complete Guide to Dragons, but just thinking

25:00

about like, wow, like knowing where

25:03

they would build a lair,

25:04

you can now populate really

25:07

any adventure with like a dragon

25:10

encounter. The dragon doesn't even have

25:12

to be there. It could just be like they stumble into

25:14

a lair of a dragon. And

25:17

then like what's in the lair, because they all collect different

25:19

things too. That's just

25:21

off the top of my head.

25:23

Nice. Yeah, I mean,

25:25

I think, you know, D&D's dragons

25:28

are maybe a little underappreciated. Like the

25:30

fact that we have 10 different kinds of dragons in

25:32

the core Monster Manual, not to mention

25:35

the other kinds that we've added to the game, various incarnations.

25:38

But like, if

25:40

you want big, nasty,

25:42

fire-breathing, brute dragons like you see

25:44

on Game of Thrones, we got those. You want wise

25:47

ancient dragons dwelling in the depths of a pristine

25:49

mountain lake? You know what, we got those too, gold

25:52

dragons.

25:52

And everything in between.

25:55

And so just the possibilities

25:57

for all kinds of different.

26:00

story is to be told around these dragons is really

26:02

exciting.

26:04

And I'm glad this book is

26:06

inspiring that for you, Shelly.

26:07

I was very inspired. Dragons

26:11

remember where all of, like every bit

26:13

of treasure they get comes from. And I

26:15

was thinking like, I don't know the story there yet,

26:17

but there's something. There's something that like, you

26:19

could use that in a million different ways.

26:21

Oh, like as a witness in a trial,

26:23

being like, well, I remember this case of treasure. Yeah, like

26:25

there is like something there. From 497 years ago,

26:27

and I'm the only one who does, and that's useful

26:30

in a kingdom who's trying

26:32

to sue for

26:34

control, that type of thing. Who would you believe? Would you

26:36

just believe the dragon? Because we're like, we're

26:38

just going to just say like, well, James Wyatt told

26:40

us that dragons remember every bit.

26:42

Sorry. I

26:45

was just accepting that as fact, but yes.

26:47

Like what if somebody in your long

26:50

line of ancestors stole

26:52

something from a dragon and you always believed

26:54

that it came from

26:56

your great, great, great, great

26:58

aunt, Gladys,

27:00

and that dragon is like, actually, I've

27:02

been looking for that for 600 years.

27:03

Well, actually. Actually,

27:07

did you not read the book about

27:09

dragons? I

27:11

remember. That superpower sounds like my wife

27:14

where she can be like, I bought this skirt at

27:16

a marshal's in 1997 for, and

27:20

it was on sale. It was only $10. Do

27:22

you remember the important things? The

27:24

time, the place. Exactly, right? Yeah. It's

27:27

important. It is important, but. Well, this practically complete

27:29

guide to dragons I love. You mentioned kids too,

27:32

Shelley, because it is like a field

27:35

journal. It's like learning a little

27:37

bit about like, you know, oh, these

27:39

creatures and everybody, every kid loves

27:42

flipping through like national geographic or things like that

27:44

to learn about the animals in our world.

27:47

And it's kind of got that vibe to it, right? Where

27:50

you're discovering things, learning things,

27:52

getting inspired, just as you would going,

27:54

like flipping through an encyclopedia or something like that. For

27:56

sure. Actually, I

27:58

had a weird train of thought that led me here, I was thinking about the,

28:00

we've got brand new full page pieces

28:02

of art for each kind of dragon.

28:04

And in each of those illustrations, we tried to show

28:07

both sort of mundane creatures

28:10

and magical creatures that share the same environment.

28:13

So like in the white dragon illustration,

28:15

you'll see some ice methods who are like

28:17

skiing on the dragon's breath,

28:21

skating away from it. And like,

28:24

there's a Yeti in the background and then a caribou

28:26

skeleton in the foreground. So, you know,

28:28

you can really look closely at this art

28:31

and get a sense for the environment and the other creatures

28:33

in that environment. There's an albert in the green dragon

28:36

illustration. That's really cool. So that it's not

28:38

just look at the star, the

28:40

dragon, it's like, no, putting them in the context

28:42

of a living, breathing world. Yeah.

28:44

Right.

28:45

Right.

28:46

Did you write those art descriptions

28:48

to include all those things or were those inspirations

28:51

from the artists?

28:54

I wrote the art descriptions and gave

28:57

some suggestions in both categories of

28:59

mundane animals and magical

29:01

creatures and let the artists choose

29:03

which direction they wanted to go in for

29:06

each of them. That's fun. Yeah.

29:08

Like a good dungeon master. You're like, here's some suggestions.

29:10

But you make it your own.

29:12

Yeah. So Sindri,

29:15

our narrator, refers to himself as the greatest

29:17

kinder wizard like

29:18

forever. Of all time. And

29:22

there was a section in the book where Sindri

29:25

was talking about dragon fear, which

29:28

does sound indeed terrible. But

29:33

he says that he doesn't

29:35

know what that feels like because Kendra never

29:38

are afraid.

29:38

Kendra are immune to fear. Is that true? Yeah,

29:40

that's a fact. It always has been. OK,

29:43

because I was going to go back. I'm like, I'm going to go look that

29:45

up because I feel like Sindri is just being like, I don't

29:47

know, because I've never been afraid of anything.

29:49

I like talking like a 10 year old kid. But

29:53

Sindri does

29:53

talk like a 10 year old kid. But that

29:56

is actually true. Yeah. But so

29:58

that but that is like the. type of

30:00

information in this book that I can see anyone

30:03

being inspired by like, oh,

30:05

now I'm going to go look up information about Kendra

30:07

because that sounds really interesting. And

30:10

now I'm in a Kendra rabbit hole, learning

30:12

all about why they don't feel fear.

30:14

Yes. That

30:16

can also be dangerous. That's not what I was going

30:18

to say. That's where it's played up

30:20

in the, in the dragon lands chronicles as being like, that's

30:22

not a good quality. You actually need some fear.

30:25

You should have a healthy fear, especially of

30:27

dragons. Creepy ones only though.

30:29

Yeah. The nice dragons you should embrace and

30:32

hug. Yes. Well, some of them do get

30:34

along with humans. They're not all bad.

30:36

So yeah. And this, this

30:38

guide will teach you which ones now

30:40

you will know how to find their layers.

30:42

I think that's something that's not used as much in,

30:45

um, in campaigns. You were saying how, you

30:47

know, dragons are under appreciated

30:50

in some ways, James, like I feel like more

30:52

folks need to use good aligned dragons

30:55

in their campaigns. Cause I love that back

30:57

and forth, right? Like, Oh, we have these, you know, chromatic,

30:59

big, bad guys. And here are the, the metallics

31:02

who are, you know, generally, you know,

31:04

good to, to people and even can carry communities

31:07

around them. Yeah. And that's certainly something

31:09

we tried to do in his band's treasury of dragons

31:11

as well to give you lots of adventure

31:13

ideas surrounding the metallic

31:16

dragons

31:17

and the gem dragons, which are historically neutral.

31:19

And you know, if I can bring the conversation back

31:21

around to giants,

31:22

you can, it

31:25

is also something, uh,

31:27

we've highlighted in glory of the giants

31:29

is that many of the giants presented

31:31

in the monster manual are described as evil, uh,

31:33

but not all of them are. And

31:35

not every fire giant is evil

31:37

either. So, you know, there's a lot of

31:39

inspiration for using giants as antagonists,

31:42

but there's also a lot in here about using giants as

31:44

adventure patrons or as allies. There's

31:47

a couple of organizations that are, are

31:49

generally non hostile in their, in

31:51

their goals anyway. So you might join

31:53

up with this druidic world root

31:56

circle of giants or be employed by

31:58

the hidden ruined. to seek out

32:00

the relics of ancient giant civilization.

32:02

So there's a lot of potential for interacting

32:05

with giants as people too.

32:06

Yeah. How great would it be to have a

32:09

patron as a giant patron

32:11

who's like, oh yeah, no, you need to, you

32:14

know, if you ever encounter a big bad dragon,

32:16

I'm here. If you need it, it's a good

32:19

counter. And that can be anything from, you know, we're

32:21

working for a crime boss in the city

32:23

and only after we've been working for

32:25

them for a couple of years do we get brought to the warehouse

32:27

and discover that the crime boss is actually a hill giant

32:30

or, you know, the other extreme, you

32:32

know, from the outset that you're working for a giant

32:35

king or something like that who

32:37

is sending

32:37

you on missions to advance the giant

32:40

kingdom's cause. I like the treasure hunter idea

32:42

too, right? Like going to find

32:44

giant treasure. Yeah. They

32:47

go in in the places that giants can't go because

32:49

they're just too big. Exactly. Exactly.

32:52

We need somebody smaller.

32:53

Every little

32:55

brother understands that. Get

32:58

the frisbee from underneath the bush. I

33:01

can't reach it. So

33:01

would you say dragons were

33:04

misunderstood and that this is sort

33:06

of a retelling of their,

33:08

like, no. Dragons or giants? Sorry, giants,

33:11

not dragons. Both, really? Yeah, I

33:13

guess that works

33:14

for both. You know, I'm not

33:17

sure it's fair to say they're misunderstood because

33:19

certainly some people understand them, but. Who

33:28

am I to say what trends exist? I don't know.

33:30

I don't have, you know, customer survey data

33:32

to indicate whether giants are misunderstood

33:35

or not. What I will say is in

33:37

both cases, like I'm trying to expand

33:40

the breadth of possibilities for your

33:42

campaign, right? And we

33:44

have a whole section on giant adventures and that

33:46

and talking about sort of adventure models

33:48

because there's one model of giant adventure that D&D

33:51

has used multiple times over many

33:53

editions, which is against the giants.

33:56

Go

33:56

fight giants. Maybe you go fight kill

33:58

giants and then cross giants and then fire giants.

33:59

And then you discover there's drow and then things get really

34:02

interesting. The giants were just a warmup.

34:05

Um,

34:06

or, you know, maybe you're fighting waves of

34:08

giant armies coming at you from time

34:10

over time, but that's just one

34:13

potential model. You know, another one might be

34:15

you're going into the lost world of the giants

34:17

where everything is enormous. And you're

34:20

a curiosity like Gulliver and Rob

34:22

Dignag or something like King

34:24

Kong and Godzilla, right? You're caught up

34:27

as dragons and giants are

34:29

fighting and you're down on the ground

34:31

trying to protect people from the aftermath or

34:34

a storm giant is holding a Kraken

34:36

at bay off the coast. And you've got to evacuate the city

34:38

before the Kraken breaks through.

34:41

Um, so that's just like three examples

34:44

of adventure models where I think we cover

34:46

a couple more as well. Uh,

34:48

just again, expanding the possibilities,

34:51

inspiring the DM

34:53

to think about things in, in different ways and

34:55

maybe try something new and different. I love that because,

34:57

you know, those, even just those off the cuff ideas,

35:00

because it feels like

35:02

they can be, uh, not

35:05

window dressing, but like there's, there's, it's,

35:08

it becomes more ep, the small things that a party

35:10

might be doing becomes more epic when it's set

35:12

beside, you

35:13

know, in, in, in this amazing conflict,

35:16

right? Like just that Kraken idea of like, Oh yeah,

35:18

well that would be just a wonderful, you know, great

35:20

way as a dungeon master to describe the things that you're, you know, that

35:22

your party is doing, which are, you know, have lots of attention to

35:24

them, but then there's this whole other, other

35:27

battle that's happening out there. Um,

35:29

and, uh, it adds it so much more stakes to

35:32

it, um, and makes it feel vibrant

35:34

and cinematic in a way and using giants

35:38

in, in those ways is so much more,

35:40

uh, satisfying than just, as you said, just like,

35:42

Oh yeah, just, you know, you're going to go kill them,

35:44

but that's valid too. You can just go kill them. Yep.

35:47

Yep. There's

35:50

there too. So I want to, I want to talk a little bit more about a

35:52

big B, uh, since he is

35:54

the presenter, he's serving this book

35:56

to us, uh, through his journey, uh,

35:59

in, in, in learning.

35:59

about Giants. He

36:02

has a story of history himself in

36:06

the Greyhawk part of

36:08

the multiverse. Is that right? He

36:10

does. He originated

36:13

as a henchman of Morgan Kanan and

36:15

under Gary Gygax's control. The

36:18

two of them had sort of a rocky

36:20

relationship at first. Bigby was

36:22

not the best person at the

36:24

outset of that relationship.

36:26

But he sort of came around and became a player

36:29

character in his own right and

36:32

a

36:33

more heroic force in the world. So by

36:35

the time we meet him, he is more

36:37

or less the equal of Morgan Kanan accompanying

36:40

him on adventures and setting

36:42

off on his own and meeting Dyan Castro and all

36:44

that. And did he have a fascination with Giants

36:46

before he got

36:47

smushed by one? And he

36:50

created his spell of a giant hand?

36:53

That has never been

36:55

talked about in lore before, to my knowledge.

36:57

But I think it's entirely possible that he did. He

37:00

was inspired to create the hand

37:03

spell, which used to be many different hand

37:05

spells by watching what Giants

37:07

could do with a great big hand. And

37:10

are there some of his spells in this book as well? No.

37:14

The Bigby's hand spell remains his

37:16

signature accomplishment. But there is an artifact

37:18

in this book that he made.

37:21

Bigby's beneficent bracelet,

37:23

which as you might expect, allows you to cast

37:25

Bigby's hand as well as

37:27

other things in a similar vein. So that's

37:29

an artifact you can give to your players or

37:31

use against them. I saw

37:34

your mind. I know. We're watching inspiration

37:37

happen right here live. So

37:42

can you say? Imagine

37:44

a villain with the hand of Vecna and

37:47

Bigby's been episode bracelet on the hand of.

37:49

It's

37:51

going to throw me the one of Orca's now. What

37:56

was that quote from last week? These hands are knives.

37:59

Yeah, that's a quote

38:02

from a from a real housewife. These

38:04

hands, these hands aren't knives,

38:06

but they work real good. So

38:09

if you got the hand of Vecna and the bracelet,

38:12

that could be what she was talking about.

38:15

Bigby's hand and Vecna's hand. These

38:18

hands. That's true. They're

38:21

not knives, but they work real good. Oh,

38:23

my God. It all makes sense now. It all makes

38:25

sense. Secrets of the multiverse. It's

38:28

been connected to the Real Housewives this whole

38:31

time. This whole time. I knew it.

38:33

And now I want to connect it to Blues Brothers. Like

38:36

if your Bigby's hand spell had words

38:38

written on each finger like

38:40

tattooed, you know, like Jake in

38:43

the Blues Brothers, what would your tattooed

38:45

hand be? Like

38:49

love and hate. Mushroom.

38:52

I think that.

38:57

Thinking of other four letters. Mine

38:59

would say these hands. Spelt

39:03

incorrectly. Bigby's has

39:06

B-I-G and a little picture of

39:08

a bee. That's

39:12

pretty badass. That

39:14

would be cool. Well, we're definitely

39:16

talking about all the ways that Dungeon

39:19

Masters are inspired

39:20

by this book, but it's not just about

39:22

them. OK, there's a lot of great

39:25

player options in this book as

39:27

well.

39:27

There are some great player options in this book. Can

39:30

I tell you about my gnome? Yes,

39:32

please. So I made a gnome pirate

39:35

for a one shot a couple of months ago. So

39:37

he's a gnome pirate. He's a barbarian. And his story

39:41

is what he does as a pirate. He's

39:44

a little gnome. But when the ship comes under attack

39:46

or they're going to attack another ship, he

39:48

goes to this big barrel that's by the main mast

39:50

and it's got a sign on it says, do not touch

39:53

the inside the barrel. There's a great axe like twice

39:55

as big as this gnome.

39:57

Right. And he pulls out the axe

39:59

and begins to. rage and grows to

40:01

four times his size, becoming

40:03

large in his rage and wielding this

40:05

great acts. And I just think

40:07

what a great story. I made it up obviously.

40:09

So of course

40:12

I think it's great, but, um, but

40:14

I just love that, that, that visual of

40:16

this little guy, you know, and

40:18

the acts actually has nothing to do with, with how

40:21

the transformation happens, but by linking it, like

40:23

it becomes this story I'm babbling. So

40:26

it's like a whole, it's like an actual

40:28

Hulk. Like he, he rages and grows

40:30

in size.

40:31

First thing, all of his clothes, the path of the, the

40:33

point is the path of the giant barbarian in this book lets

40:36

you become large when you rage,

40:38

which is what my know was doing, maybe

40:41

should have led with that.

40:44

And that doesn't matter what size you are. So

40:46

even if you're small, you become large, you become

40:49

large. So it's really fun to put it on a small character

40:51

who, you know, ordinarily wouldn't be super effective

40:53

swinging a great X. And another piece of

40:55

character focused content in this book. So Fizzbens

40:58

had like one little table in it that talked

41:00

about, um, how you might flavor

41:02

your character's abilities in a dragon

41:04

sort of way. We've blown that out to a page

41:06

in this book that talks about various ways

41:09

to add giant flavor to your

41:11

character. So, you know, my gnomes great acts is

41:13

a giant acts

41:14

comes from giants. And that's what sort

41:16

of fuels his transformation in the story.

41:19

Or you might tie yourself the giant, like

41:21

there's, there's a couple of backgrounds in the book as well that

41:23

indicate maybe you studied giant rune magic,

41:26

or you grew up in giant ruins or were raised

41:28

by giants, or maybe, uh, you just

41:30

have a fondness for giant animals as a, as

41:32

a druid or a ranger.

41:34

You liked a wild shape into big things. Or,

41:40

you know, even, even as a wizard who doesn't use

41:43

the rune carver background, you might still use

41:45

giant runes as your spell book. Um,

41:48

if you

41:48

want to flavor your wizard spell book that way, lots

41:51

of inspiration for building a character who's flavored,

41:54

according to giants. Um, giving

41:56

you sort of all the story material

41:58

in this book to draw on.

41:59

as inspiration for your character as well. How does

42:02

the rune carving work? Is it like a,

42:04

it's not really a spell, it's more just like

42:06

a binding thing. It's a feat that gives you access

42:08

to spells. I'm trying to remember

42:11

exactly how the feat works. And

42:13

I don't. But I remember those runes being

42:15

important from Sword and

42:17

King's Thunder.

42:18

And how those were depicted

42:21

and could be, you know, part

42:23

of

42:24

the player character's journey

42:27

there was finding these runes and figuring out a ways to use

42:29

them. Yes. And we've touched on

42:31

them, not just in Storm King's

42:33

Thunder, but with the Rune Knight Fighter

42:36

subclass in Tasha's, I think. And

42:39

a number of magic items in Storm King's Thunder use them,

42:42

a whole bunch of magic items. And this book also

42:44

use them as well as that rune carver feat that

42:47

gives characters access to some of their

42:49

magic. So we talked a little bit about,

42:51

you know, according to the Pyre Sandbook, the giant

42:54

language

42:54

is written using Dwarvish script.

42:57

So there's a sidebar actually in the introduction of

42:59

the book talking about that, how Dwarvish script isn't

43:02

what the giants themselves originally used.

43:04

These runes are an expression of

43:07

written language, but the giants treated

43:09

them as special and magical and sacred

43:12

because they are, they contain

43:14

this enormous magical power. So that's

43:16

not really a written language. It's

43:19

an almost hieroglyphic system in

43:21

the literal sense that they are holy

43:23

glyphs,

43:25

but also, you know, their pictograms

43:28

where a single character represents a whole word,

43:30

not a runic language or an

43:32

athletic language. So Dwarvish came along

43:34

later and used their script to transcribe

43:36

the giant language. And

43:38

so when your character

43:39

reads something written in giant, it's

43:41

transcribed using the Dwarvish script, but the giant

43:43

runes are something separate. I'm getting deep

43:46

into nerdy weeds here, but. I

43:48

love that.

43:49

Me too. Well, that's the part that's so exciting.

43:52

Cause then you're like, okay, that's why these runes have power

43:54

is that they have, you know, entire

43:57

concept or meaning or idea behind them.

43:59

Rather. than just the

44:01

letter A. It's

44:04

an idea that is, I mean, and that's, I don't

44:06

know, you could really go into the weeds too about how

44:09

language is mystical.

44:12

How does it work really? I don't know.

44:14

It's amazing

44:16

that we have this ability as humans to look

44:19

at a word and immediately know what it means, even

44:22

in the alphabetic language. So I don't know, there's

44:24

something really powerful about this idea for me. Yeah,

44:27

for sure. And we've talked

44:29

at various times in D&D about the

44:31

words of creation and the idea that language

44:34

is fundamental to the magic of the multiverse

44:36

in some way. Bards use that a lot

44:39

now. I just wrote some text for the next

44:41

UA about bards and the words of creation. So

44:43

you'll see that soon. That's neat.

44:47

Yeah. Power words, it's

44:49

a spell too. Exactly. Right. Exactly.

44:52

Yeah. So whether

44:54

it's interesting, like there is,

44:56

again, a mythic idea there that a

44:59

pictorial representation of

45:01

a word

45:03

contains power, but the sounds

45:05

of the word itself, there is a

45:07

magic to the fact that I can say

45:09

mountain

45:11

and evoke for you a picture of a mountain

45:14

and the magic that happens

45:16

of communication there.

45:18

Yeah, I just saw Mount Rainier and

45:20

I'm not even there. Yep. That's

45:22

amazing. Yeah, that's for the giant. A word

45:25

that makes your animal companion

45:27

do something. Exactly.

45:30

So we're planting. Yes, Waukee. Don't

45:34

say it. Good thing

45:36

he's deaf. Good thing he's deaf too.

45:39

Just peed everywhere.

45:40

I have a little crow sound that

45:42

I like to make when I go out in the backyard that

45:44

calls my crows. That calls my crows

45:47

to me. Wait, you want crows near you?

45:49

I do, I love them. Oh, I'm the opposite. I'm like,

45:51

get out of your crow. No, don't, Craig, they

45:54

will remember your face. I want them to.

45:57

And their babies will remember your face. I want

45:59

them to.

45:59

but they constantly come back

46:02

and they yell at me.

46:02

No, I give them offerings. So here's

46:05

my story about crows.

46:06

Giant crows? I

46:09

live in a Disney movie. So years

46:11

ago now, I was in the house

46:14

and I heard all this noise and I thought

46:16

my daughter was watching some kind of nature documentary.

46:19

She was like, no. So I could go outside

46:21

and realize there's all these robins

46:23

who are making noise and crows who are calling

46:26

because a baby robin has fallen out of its nest into

46:28

our driveway and is being harassed by crows.

46:30

So I went outside and I chased the crows

46:33

away by being there and the robin

46:35

hopped into the bushes and got covered.

46:37

So if life were a Disney movie, my

46:40

cars would be spotless

46:42

and these birds would be hanging

46:44

my laundry for me

46:46

and stuff in gratitude. Like they did for

46:48

a snowman. Instead the crows hate me and my cars are not spotless.

46:51

They poop on your car, don't they? They

46:54

know.

46:56

Now you just need to find the right, we're

46:59

runes to speak to crows. Yes,

47:02

but be careful. Peanut. That's

47:05

the rune. They like peanuts. The

47:08

peanut rune. Well, I have

47:11

been delighted by this conversation, James. Like I am

47:13

every time we speak. So

47:16

fun, I want to know more about Giants

47:19

and Dragons in these two

47:21

books that we were talking about. Yeah,

47:23

they're coming out soon.

47:24

Yeah. I think

47:26

on the same day even. They're

47:28

like sibling products. It's

47:30

a big day for James Wyatt. James

47:36

Wyatt day. What is it, August

47:38

20th? Is that when they're on? Or August 15th. August

47:40

15th, thank you. I was just throwing out numbers and

47:42

letters. Yeah, August 15th. You guys can figure it out. Yes,

47:45

August 15th for both. Big B

47:47

presents glory of the Giants where you'll

47:49

get all that information and lore

47:52

and spells and backgrounds and 70

47:55

bestiary

47:56

monsters to do things with.

47:58

Big monster. And then pick up the presents.

47:59

You're actually a complete guide to dragons.

48:02

And teach your young how

48:04

to fend off crows

48:07

from killing a round. How

48:08

to make friends with crows.

48:10

How to make friends with dragons. Who are. Who are

48:12

essentially very big crows. Sure.

48:16

Ha ha ha. Awesome,

48:19

James. Well, how can people see

48:21

what you're doing? Are you on the social medias

48:23

these days? Yeah, I'm still hanging

48:25

on Twitter until it implodes. So

48:27

I'm aquilla James on Twitter.

48:30

Yeah, that's basically it.

48:31

All right, well, send all your praise there,

48:34

everyone. And you get your hands on big

48:36

bees and the practically complete guide to dragons.

48:38

And some car washes to

48:40

get all the bird poop off of there. Donate

48:43

a car was to James Wyatt. Ha ha

48:45

ha. Awesome.

48:48

Thanks so much, James. Thank you, James. Thank you,

48:51

guys. James

48:53

Wyatt certainly fit the bill

48:56

of our intro.

48:58

What inspirations? He's so fun to talk to. Could

49:00

have kept going. I know, right? For

49:03

hours and hours. That's what I

49:05

did back in Durham, North Carolina back in the day

49:07

and I would do it again.

49:08

Do you think he, we should have asked him about that.

49:10

Do you think that he was excited to be cornered

49:12

for three hours at a party by you? Or was he

49:14

like, oh, I'm so thirsty. I really don't

49:17

need to hit the

49:17

bar. I didn't technically corner him.

49:19

It was just like, I do that sometimes where I find, much

49:22

like this podcast, interesting people to talk to

49:24

and I hyper focus on those people

49:27

for a bunch of time because.

49:29

You've never hyper focused on me, Greg. I'm

49:32

doing it right now, Shana. Does that mean you don't find

49:34

me interesting? I do, I

49:36

do find you interesting. In like

49:39

a, in like a, hmm.

49:42

Let's find out. Did her mom do

49:44

well, Greg? Do you like these

49:47

real things, these real

49:50

delights, these violent delights? I'm

49:52

sick of answering that question. And

49:56

that's why we don't have three hour

49:58

long conversations. We're done.

50:00

I'm gonna flip a table and we're done. Knives,

50:04

these are knives. Yes I am. Of

50:07

course indeed you would actually just have a character with knives

50:09

for hands at this point.

50:11

Of course, obviously

50:13

I've made a pact with a

50:15

traveling knife salesman. I

50:17

think I'm gonna play a plasmoid by the way. I'm thinking about.

50:20

Are you playing skull jammer? I am,

50:22

yeah. I'm gonna do a plasmoid monk

50:24

because they don't need weapons

50:27

and they

50:28

can just punch and use

50:31

their ability to go through small

50:33

crevices without having to wear any armor or

50:35

weapons and be a monk

50:38

rogue. That's what I'm currently thinking about.

50:40

I can't help but imagine a

50:43

monk trying to kick and

50:46

that gloopy little leg. Blah,

50:49

blah, blah. Trying to do a roundhouse

50:51

kick as a plasmoid.

50:54

I'm assuming

50:56

he can make parts of himself harder

50:59

than other parts, right? So then when you connect

51:02

it, it won't be a gloop. It'll be a

51:04

damage inducing, but maybe it will be gloopy. I don't

51:06

know. I mean like, yeah, the gloop couldn't actually

51:08

help. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

51:11

it's really fun to be a plasmoid. Gelonious

51:14

monk. Stop it.

51:17

Right, that's good. That was kind of the weak word it all came

51:19

from. I do feel like that

51:22

plasmoids can give Tabaxia a

51:24

run for their money when it comes to good names. It's

51:27

true. The pun possibilities

51:30

goes up. It really does.

51:32

Yeah, and you love a good pun. Especially

51:34

for a character name. Especially for

51:37

talking about giants, giants,

51:39

giants. Don't worry everyone. I will

51:42

stop soon enough. We're gonna keep

51:45

doing it nonstop. Giants! Live

51:49

at the Heart Fisters. The

51:52

biggest bestiary ever!

51:55

At the Carrier Dome. Oh,

51:58

that's where I saw you too. Yeah. Not

52:00

you as well. But Bono. Yeah.

52:03

And Bon Jovi and Skid Row. Wow.

52:07

It's a big arena there in Syracuse, New York.

52:11

I saw you two at a place in

52:13

Philadelphia and I convinced my friends

52:15

to drive to Ithaca. This is when I was in Ithaca. They

52:17

drove to Ithaca from Connecticut and then drove to

52:20

Philadelphia. Somehow they're like, sure, yeah,

52:22

let's do that. To pick you up. We'll pick you up in

52:24

Ithaca.

52:24

At that age, like, you don't

52:26

look at maps. They're not looking to see if things

52:28

are like on the way. They are

52:31

still making fun of that. Or

52:33

three hours out of the way. For me to this day, I'd be like, why did

52:35

we do that, Greg? That was the stupidest play on

52:37

average. I'm like, well, you did it. Yeah. All

52:40

you did was suggest that they're the ones who did it. Exactly.

52:42

Exactly. Persuasion.

52:45

But a friend of mine was just at the venue in Philadelphia where

52:48

we saw that thing. He's like, well, guess where I am now? And

52:50

I was like, it doesn't look like it looked like

52:52

the U2 concert because they transformed

52:54

it into something different.

52:56

Like Disney on ice or something? No,

52:58

well, yes. It was an ice rink. It looks

53:00

different. Bono on ice. I can see

53:03

it. U2 on ice. They're not

53:05

far off. They're in Vegas, right? So they're basically doing a

53:07

residency. Are they? They're doing a residency in Vegas.

53:09

Or maybe they did already. I don't know. Oh.

53:12

Anyway. How? Anyway.

53:15

We go to some wide ranging places. I'm not sure. I'm

53:17

not sure. I'm not sure. I'm

53:19

not sure.

53:21

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not

53:23

sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

53:25

I'm not sure. But I'm going to go to some wide ranging places

53:27

in this outro. And

53:28

I want to bring it back to D&D. So you should follow

53:31

along what's going on with D&D Beyond. Make

53:33

your character. Maybe you can

53:35

see my Jelonius Monk character on there.

53:37

I'll make it public so you can see it. And

53:41

you can follow me at Greg Tito on

53:44

most social medias. Sometimes there's a

53:46

dot in the middle there. Nice.

53:48

You can follow me at ShellyMoo on

53:50

Twitter or Instagram or visit my website,

53:53

ShellyMazenoble.com. What about your

53:55

website, Greg? They can also

53:57

go there. It's GregTito.com. Sign up for my newsletter.

54:00

It's not as robust probably as Shelley's

54:02

newsletter on the sub stacks, but

54:04

going out tomorrow. It's

54:06

there. I now I'm like, oh crap, I have my

54:08

internal deadline to try to do an update every

54:11

month. And I'm like, shit, it's almost the end of the month. Well,

54:13

crap, I was

54:14

trying to do every week. It remains to be seen. I

54:16

do have a draft though. It's just sitting there waiting

54:18

for me to hit send. Oh, that's good. I

54:21

was waiting for the link to

54:22

actually to this week's Dragon Talk

54:24

so I can promote that in the newsletter. Oh,

54:27

there you go. That's what I've been doing too. Hey, I

54:29

talked to these people this month, but I only do them monthly. Now

54:31

you gotta stress me out making it weekly? God.

54:33

I'm stressing myself out. I

54:35

don't know if I can commit to it. That's a lot of work. But

54:37

it seems like as writers, shouldn't we? Shouldn't

54:40

we be able to like write one thing? Like,

54:43

shouldn't you? That's what I'm telling

54:46

myself. Were you just talking about your notebooks that are empty? It's

54:49

because I put the words on in the computer.

54:52

Oh, well see, I printed out and just

54:54

paste it into my notebooks. I

54:58

sent it in. I want to.

55:00

I'd like to be a person that travels around with a notebook,

55:03

like Sindri Sin Catcher, and just be

55:05

like, oh, an observation. Here

55:07

we go.

55:08

I'm going to come up with a cute way to say this.

55:10

Yeah, no, I've never been that person. Which I kind

55:12

of do. The notes thing in my phone, I'm

55:14

always writing like, oh, that's really funny. Or

55:16

I want to write about that. Or this

55:19

would be a cool title for a book. I

55:21

don't know. Or this would be a cool name for a... For

55:24

a taxi. Also

55:26

that. Speaking of tabaxis. Like Witch Hazel.

55:29

Segway lady, let's get into

55:31

what's going on with drunkie two

55:34

shoes. It is a daily...

55:35

I can't tell I'm delaying because drunkie's

55:38

in trouble right now. Yeah,

55:40

there is water. She is a waterlogged

55:43

tabaxi, not happy about it. Extremely

55:46

uncat-like

55:47

in your posture.

55:51

Water is just streaming off of you. All

55:54

of your friends also are drenched, as

55:56

is everyone. And there is writhing bodies

55:58

of...

55:59

Eels snakes you're not really sure

56:02

but they are vicious. They've got long

56:04

sharp teeth Some of them

56:06

have bitten into you and injected

56:09

poison and you're not feeling very

56:11

good So not only are you waterlogged as a cat you're

56:13

hungry. You're

56:14

drunk You're angry at your brother

56:17

for performing very beautifully

56:19

in front of you. I might add

56:22

But now you're in

56:24

the middle of a drop-down fight

56:26

with some poisonous swarmed snakes

56:28

So what are you going to do?

56:31

I am going

56:31

to Shake

56:34

off my fur. Are they still attached

56:36

to me? Yes. So there's there's there's

56:39

many all around you writhing all of your

56:42

Teammates are also experiencing this and getting

56:44

bit. Oh

56:45

Didn't I hit

56:48

some of them with my burning hands you did

56:50

in fact? Yeah, so you go A

56:52

big plume of steam had

56:55

gone up and you had done some damage to

56:57

these snakes And

57:00

some of them are you know, you see they're burned

57:02

as well Some of the fur of your

57:05

to backseat friends are singed

57:08

and they're not feeling too happy about that One

57:10

of them in fact Jonathan

57:12

says drugie. What are you doing?

57:14

I

57:15

didn't know you were there It Hurts

57:20

and burns in addition to the poison just

57:23

kill the snakes and he takes one and

57:25

he tries to smash it with

57:27

his fist

57:29

And he rolled a 16 on

57:31

the die and he's able to get one He's like

57:33

just kill it like this and he smashes it

57:36

grabs a hold of its tail and kind of smashes it on the ground

57:39

Maybe against Samson's back and

57:41

kind of brains it until it and then it falls limp

57:44

And he moved to try to grab another one that's on his

57:46

friend Altea.

57:47

How many are there snakes? Yeah,

57:50

there are All around you

57:52

yeah many of them you've destroyed some of them So

57:54

there's some more laying in there are being washed away as though

57:57

the water that's about like knee-high at this point is kind

57:59

of You know

57:59

pulling away, but there's more around you.

58:02

Can I take Rip

58:04

Two off of Blade of Grass? She probably

58:07

has some on her. Yes. And

58:10

can I rip them off of her body, chuck

58:12

them down and then hit them with an acid splash

58:14

or is that too many things?

58:15

No, you can do that. Yeah, go ahead. So

58:17

make a, you're just gonna

58:19

make an attack with the acid splash to make sure that you're not

58:21

going to hit. Yeah, I wanna pull them

58:24

off of her. Yeah.

58:26

And I can hit two as long as they're like five feet away from each

58:29

other, which I'm assuming they are.

58:31

Yeah. Okay. Does this just

58:33

hit? Do I have to roll a... I think you have to do a save,

58:36

yes. All right, what's the

58:38

DC I'm trying to hit? All

58:41

right, I passed. What

58:43

do you mean you passed? You rolled

58:46

higher than a 13? I just hit on my dexterity saving throw

58:48

and that means nothing happens. Okay,

58:50

but did I at least rip them off her body? Yes,

58:53

both of them saved. So

58:55

yeah, I'll say that you were able to kind of like grab them and

58:57

rip them and try to acid splash. But

59:00

as soon as you grab those two more, you

59:03

take its place. Like there's just a mass of

59:05

snakes around here.

59:06

Stop, drop and roll. So

59:09

it is blades. She tries

59:11

to swing her blade and does

59:14

so slashing into many

59:17

of these snakes. And she actually takes the ones that you threw

59:20

and is able to swing her

59:22

sword down and cut them in twain. And

59:25

she says, I'll take care of these. You get

59:27

the ones on those

59:29

people. And she points to some of the

59:32

Sagarpurians who are there.

59:35

And one of them is a, you

59:38

know,

59:38

a teenage boy who is, at

59:43

first you thought he was, you know, you kind of watch him for

59:45

a moment. You thought he was fending off these

59:48

snakes, but they start to overwhelm him.

59:50

No, no, no, no, no. Okay, I'm

59:52

gonna throw, jump on him and

59:55

throw him down cover him with my,

59:57

yes. Okay, so you- Pounce

1:00:00

like an athletics check as you try to

1:00:03

protect him from these So

1:00:05

weird that I don't have any bonuses

1:00:07

and athletics. No, and I I rolled a two

1:00:10

you rolled a two Okay,

1:00:13

so you you try to jump on top of them with

1:00:15

like with grace and To

1:00:18

save them from these but you actually just barrel into them

1:00:20

and he takes He

1:00:23

takes two points of damage at

1:00:25

but he is out of the the

1:00:27

snakes that were on him are shaken off But

1:00:29

he's down under in the water skinned his knees

1:00:32

Not feeling great, but you're on top of him there and

1:00:35

he starts to yell He's

1:00:38

he's can't get any words out

1:00:40

cuz he's underwater.

1:00:41

Ah, can I pull him back up? Yes

1:00:44

Yeah, get up and run run go

1:00:49

Okay, and he let me just see

1:00:51

what he does yeah, he listens to

1:00:53

you, okay

1:00:55

Thanks, I think bye. No problem.

1:00:58

All right as you're in the middle

1:01:00

of this you just save that and You

1:01:02

know you're seeing him the kind of getaway you turn

1:01:04

back to the rest of your teammates

1:01:07

who are Destroying

1:01:09

the last of these poisonous snakes a

1:01:12

kind of figure is striding up as

1:01:14

the water is moving away and He's

1:01:17

actually pretty dry and looks great

1:01:21

hair Swept back

1:01:23

and Daryl says is

1:01:24

that

1:01:25

is that you I stand up covered snake

1:01:29

bites sopping wet fur probably

1:01:31

some bruises and scratches and I

1:01:34

just charge him with my hands out

1:01:37

towards his little skinny

1:01:39

scrawny

1:01:41

bitchy neck Why

1:01:44

you little yes and we will pick it up next

1:01:46

time with your claws perhaps

1:01:49

around Daryl's neck I'm so

1:01:52

angry

1:01:56

This is the concept of bleed now I'm

1:01:58

gonna go like yell at Bart about something And he's

1:02:00

going to be like, what did I do? It's not what you did.

1:02:03

It's what Daryl did. How

1:02:07

dare you perform beautifully in front of me? How

1:02:13

dare you live your truth? You

1:02:16

ran away from me. What

1:02:18

a jerk. This hair glowing.

1:02:22

Well, we will resolve all of that next time. So

1:02:24

we will.