0:00

wondering. Plus subscribers can binge all

0:02

episodes of Dr. Death Bad Magic

0:05

early and ad free. join Wonder

0:07

He Plus in the Wonder Yap

0:09

or on Apple podcasts. Things.

0:17

We're not going well for sir. How can

0:20

work to in the summer of two thousand

0:22

and twenty three? The. Man who

0:24

carried out the abduction and execution

0:26

of Gregory Davis had pleaded guilty

0:28

in a plot that law enforcement

0:30

said Sir Hot had masterminded. And.

0:33

The Biotech company Sarah helped found

0:35

a Nokia Bio Sciences The one

0:38

that prosecutors claim was part of

0:40

his motivation for the hit was

0:42

failing. The company, once valued at

0:45

over half a billion dollars, was

0:47

hemorrhaging money. they desperately needed to

0:49

make a change. That's when one

0:52

of the cofounders of a Nokia

0:54

in Renee Send Live and the

0:56

Ceo Mark Diebold begin a series

0:58

of conversations with the hell start

1:01

up that they believed could brighten

1:03

their prospects. The company

1:05

was called Jedi Cube and

1:07

it was valued at over

1:09

two hundred million dollars. Despite

1:11

the fact that it had

1:14

generated know revenue, the two

1:16

companies began the process of

1:18

merging and in August and

1:20

Nokia changed it's name to

1:22

Rent A Vara Bio Sciences.

1:24

The plan seem to work

1:26

immediately, their stock went up.

1:28

There was just one problem

1:30

sir. Had husband William Anderson

1:32

Wittekind decided. To throw a

1:34

massive wrench into the gears. In

1:37

January he found lawsuit filled

1:39

with explosive allegations about how

1:41

and know key and was operating

1:43

behind the scenes. If it

1:45

succeeds, it could take down

1:47

the board of directors, but it

1:50

also seems to threaten the

1:52

entire company. We're.

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more. From

2:35

Wondery and Laura Beale, and this

2:37

is a special episode of Dr. Death's

2:39

Bad Magic. When

2:47

Sarah Hart's husband filed his lawsuit, one

2:50

of the people watching was Nate Anderson.

2:53

Nate and his team at Hindenburg

2:55

Research are responsible for the financial

2:57

fraud investigation that exposed Sarah Hart's

2:59

true origins. Today he's

3:01

going to talk us through the latest chapter

3:04

in the Enochian story, an

3:06

insider alleging insider trading,

3:08

boardroom backstabbing, and major

3:10

cover-ups. Nate, first off,

3:12

thanks for being here and talking with us

3:14

about this suit. Can you start

3:16

off by just briefly describing it for me?

3:19

Yeah, the lawsuit was

3:21

filed by Sir Hart's husband and

3:24

an entity that he has a

3:26

stake in that owns a

3:28

lot of shares of what once

3:31

was called Enochian biosciences. So it's

3:34

a lawsuit where they are accusing

3:37

the company of fraud, accusing the company

3:39

of failing to disclose key information to

3:41

investors, and demanding

3:43

that Renee Sinlev, the

3:46

chairman, Mark Dybul, the CEO,

3:48

and other insiders give money

3:50

back to the company that

3:52

the lawsuit alleges was unjustly

3:54

stolen, essentially. This

3:57

basically, to me, reads like a

4:00

spike. lawsuits. In my view,

4:02

it's 108 pages of Sir

4:05

Ha through his husband saying, you sued

4:07

me last year calling me a brazen

4:09

fraud. Like, why don't you guys take

4:11

a look at yourselves? It's just, I

4:14

looked at it and there's

4:16

just such irony. I mean,

4:19

he's accusing the other side

4:22

of fraud. I

4:24

just, when I first heard about this,

4:26

I was like, it's what? Yeah.

4:29

No, I mean- I mean, what was

4:31

your reaction? What was your reaction? I

4:33

think Sir Ha is sitting in prison

4:35

waiting for his trial for

4:38

wire fraud now and the

4:40

murder conspiracy. And I

4:42

think he, he was probably

4:45

pretty pissed that the company sued

4:47

him and essentially tried to blame everything on him.

4:49

So I think he's just trying to say,

4:52

no, you guys are also scumbags

4:54

and a lot of this is

4:56

your fault and you're there and

4:58

you're involved. And here's a bunch

5:00

of evidence showing how you guys

5:03

were enriching yourselves at the expense

5:05

of shareholders and sort of harnessing

5:07

lives and his own claims

5:10

to make money for themselves. Do

5:12

you think the company itself is

5:14

endangered by the suit? I

5:17

think the company is endangered by

5:19

the prospect that the major

5:22

merger announcement is in all

5:24

likelihood completely worthless, that they

5:26

have virtually nothing left.

5:29

So I think the company is in danger.

5:32

The lawsuit, I think helps bring that closer

5:35

to fruition, but I think that's likely an

5:37

inevitability at this point. So if they

5:39

still own a big

5:41

share of the stock, why

5:44

would they do something that would

5:47

hurt the company? Because if the

5:49

stock goes up, then

5:52

presumably they make

5:54

money. So I'm confused by

5:57

this. Can you explain it to me? Yeah, I think

5:59

part of it. is an

6:01

allegation that the insiders were

6:04

buying shares at a massive

6:06

discount ahead of major

6:09

news that they knew was going to send

6:11

the stock up. So there's one

6:14

example where Rene Sinlev, the chairman

6:16

of the company, bought

6:18

stock just days before

6:21

the company announced a major

6:23

merger transaction with an AI

6:25

company. And that transaction

6:27

announcement sent the stock up over

6:29

1000% over the course of months

6:31

from its low prices. So with

6:35

the chairman buying shares immediately

6:37

prior to the transaction with clear

6:39

knowledge that was going to be

6:41

announced, the allegation is that he

6:43

basically enriched himself at

6:45

the company's expense using this material

6:49

non-public information that he had.

6:52

That's a pretty serious allegation. But wouldn't

6:54

Sarah Hutt and his husband have

6:56

also made money off the stock?

6:58

Like if the whole company implodes,

7:00

then nobody wins, right? That's right.

7:03

Yeah. So I do think to an

7:05

extent this is probably

7:08

cutting his nose off to spite his face.

7:10

So you mentioned Mark

7:12

Dibel and his name comes up over

7:14

and over again in the suit. We

7:17

covered this some in the podcast, but at first,

7:19

at first he's a big defender of Sarah Hutt,

7:21

and then it ends up they're suing each other.

7:23

Can you kind of walk

7:26

me through just briefly

7:29

the arc of their relationship?

7:32

Yeah. So at first, Mark

7:34

Dibel and the company for that matter

7:36

had just lavish praise on Sarah Hutt

7:38

that he was going to revolutionize medicine,

7:41

that he was the Michelangelo of biotech

7:43

and things of that sort. So

7:45

for years had just been lavishing

7:47

this praise on him. But then

7:50

when everything came crumbling down, I think

7:53

they chose to try and pin

7:56

the blame on Sarah. Sarah is

7:58

in jail. And I

8:00

think the lawsuit that they

8:02

filed, this was in October 2022, seemed

8:04

like an effort to

8:09

allege that Serhat was the brazen fraud, that

8:11

he had faked all the data, that he

8:13

was responsible for all these terrible things that

8:16

had happened. It doesn't seem unreasonable knowing

8:18

what we know now. No,

8:20

I think it's probably the case. I think

8:22

Serhat is indeed a brazen fraud. But

8:25

that doesn't mean Mark Dibel and Renee

8:27

Sinlev aren't. In a lot

8:30

of white collar cases,

8:32

the defense for

8:35

everyone else who's not the key

8:37

individual is almost always the play

8:39

dumb defense. We

8:42

didn't know the data was all fake.

8:44

We didn't know our key shareholder and

8:46

co-founder was a psycho murder magician out

8:48

there casting spells or whatever and

8:51

giving quack remedies to terminal

8:53

cancer patients. I genuinely don't

8:55

know what the justification they landed on for all

8:57

this was. But I think the

9:00

game is they are pretending

9:02

more or less to be stone cold morons

9:05

about everything that just had no idea what

9:07

was going on. And

9:10

I think Serhat recognized that through the

9:12

lawsuit. It's like, okay, these guys

9:14

are trying to pin it all on me. And

9:18

it wasn't all on me, either alleging

9:21

that they knew or that they

9:23

themselves were engaged in some

9:25

sketchy practices that resulted

9:27

in where the company is today. So

9:29

it centers around the acquisition of

9:32

this company. Can

9:34

you just briefly walk

9:36

me through how

9:39

they acquired that company and what

9:41

the lawsuit is saying about the

9:43

problems in the acquisition of the

9:45

company? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. All

9:48

right. Let me give it a shot at least.

9:51

Thanks. Around

9:53

mid-2023, enoki in

9:56

biosciences was in pretty dire straits,

9:58

almost out of cash. had

10:00

a world of liabilities. It was

10:03

really close to being just an

10:05

insolvent shell with tons of legal

10:07

liabilities through the revelations

10:09

around Serhat, the faking of

10:11

the scientific data, and

10:13

a lot of just misstatements and things along

10:16

the way. So company

10:18

was in pretty

10:21

dark times. And

10:23

around middle of 2023, the chairman, Rene Sinlev, began

10:29

talks to merge with a

10:31

company called Jedi

10:33

Cube or Getty Cube, or whatever,

10:35

however it's pronounced. And the company,

10:38

from what we can tell, didn't

10:40

actually exist until it was formed

10:42

in June. And all

10:45

they had around that time was

10:47

an agreement to

10:51

merge or acquire with a tiny

10:53

little startup that had

10:55

what they claimed to be some AI technology.

10:58

And from what we can tell, that tiny

11:01

little startup itself was almost insolvent. So

11:03

it didn't seem like it was a match made in heaven, but

11:06

this Jedi Cube acquired

11:09

this small startup. And

11:12

then the deal was for Jedi

11:14

Cube to merge with Enochian and

11:17

rebrand and renew itself as

11:20

a totally new AI

11:22

med tech, like, hot

11:24

company. And that is exactly

11:26

what happened. The stock went up, changed its

11:28

name to Renovaro

11:31

Biosciences, a bunch

11:33

of people bought it. Anything that can

11:35

hype up this new pivot

11:37

to AI and get investors excited, I

11:39

think, is what they were gravitating to.

11:43

And I know you're not an attorney, but you

11:45

spend a lot of time looking up

11:47

dirt on companies. I'd like your kind

11:50

of general impression about whether

11:52

this seems like a strong case or

11:54

not. As much as I feel

11:57

weird agreeing with Serhat on something, I

11:59

think the... Evidence here seems quite

12:01

strong and well documented. I think

12:03

there's quite a bit here. So.

12:06

Are you gonna keep on? I'm curious. Are you

12:08

done? Are you gonna keep on? Pop.

12:10

And popcorn And following mansour, Are you

12:12

just an observer known? To know if

12:14

you were going to follow the story

12:17

where want to see what happens with

12:19

Sir House Trial He is. A

12:21

pretty talented musician. Looseness. The

12:23

can he fool a jury?

12:25

I'm curious to see what

12:27

happens with. Marked. I ball

12:30

and run a sin though like to

12:32

individuals that despite everything who have come

12:34

out thus far relatively unscathed and have

12:37

slapped a new name on what they're

12:39

doing and tried to do it all

12:41

over again in in not much more

12:44

convincing fashion than last time they tried

12:46

this. I think that's a good place

12:48

to and thanks made it was is nice. And

12:50

tacky. And you through any I presented

12:52

think you're I. Think let. Thanks.

12:58

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or wherever you get your podcasts. After

16:30

Hindenburg Research exposed that Enochian scientific

16:33

founder had faked all of his

16:35

credentials, the company stood

16:37

by the science. But in

16:39

2022, they dialed that back. Five

16:43

months after Serhat's arrest, they admitted

16:45

that he had actually faked some

16:47

of the scientific data in his

16:50

papers. Elizabeth Bick is a scientific

16:52

fraud researcher, and she was

16:54

one of the earliest people to notice

16:56

the inconsistencies in Serhat's research. She's

16:59

here to talk about how those papers got published in

17:01

the first place, and how

17:03

scientific fraud can slip under the

17:05

radar. Thank

17:09

you, Elizabeth, for talking with me. I have

17:11

to say I'm a fan. I'm very familiar

17:13

with the work that you do, so I'm really

17:15

happy to talk to you. When I

17:18

first started out in science writing, I was

17:20

a little more naive. I

17:23

had this view of the peer

17:25

review system as being the

17:28

fail safe against any of this happening. That,

17:31

of course, when scientific papers

17:33

are read by other

17:35

people in the field, their

17:38

job is to make sure that

17:40

the science is sound and keep

17:42

this kind of thing from happening.

17:46

What's the reality of that? It's

17:50

a tough question to answer because some of

17:52

the things I'm finding, you

17:54

wish that a peer reviewer would

17:56

have seen that, Because sometimes

17:58

it's so obvious. Such

18:00

as the photo shopping is so

18:02

euro obvious that somebody should have

18:04

caught that. but. The truth

18:07

is that peer reviewers are. well, it's

18:09

a volunteer. Job mode you know people

18:11

be reviewing are typically will do this

18:13

on a. Friday. Evening of

18:15

and when the rest of the family

18:17

is doing some fun something fonder Sell

18:19

beer. And so scientists

18:22

are. Doing. This on paid

18:24

as a volunteer job and they're not really.

18:27

Educated on catching frogs. That's not really

18:29

the purpose of peer review. it is

18:32

is is the sounds good? And

18:34

if you. Assume that data is

18:36

real. If you just trust that blindly, then

18:39

that is a very different way of looking

18:41

at data. Then if you put a different

18:43

hats on and thing. Could this be

18:45

fraud? And so sad is how I

18:47

approach some of the papers. So similarity

18:50

I feel that the fraud the section.

18:52

That. The loot is looking for specific

18:54

problems with paper should be done. By.

18:57

Paid persons who work at

18:59

publisher's or journals. Yeah, and

19:01

speaking about the larger scientific

19:03

community, I don't want anyone

19:06

hearing this to think that

19:08

this is a rampant that.

19:10

Most. Says scientific research out there

19:13

is sake are frauds so can

19:15

you can be some context in

19:17

terms of them: Percentage of papers

19:19

that you review that actually do

19:21

have problems. So. I did

19:23

a scan of twenty thousand papers and

19:25

as sounds at around two percent. Of

19:27

those papers, Had a really

19:30

big problem separate. Not the result

19:32

of a an honest error buffer to

19:34

result of an intention to mislead. And

19:36

so that's two percent. And those were.

19:39

Obvious. Problems By looking at the paper said

19:41

a real percentage of fraud has to be

19:43

a bit higher, but I would estimate of

19:45

maybe in the five percent range. So.

19:48

What's the answer? then? Soon.

19:51

Keeping. The. Fraudsters

19:53

out of science? Do we

19:56

need? More

19:58

scientists turn. Detective like

20:00

you are. Is there some better

20:02

system? I'm I'm intrigued by your

20:04

idea of having a whole fraud

20:06

department at At at at Journal.

20:08

That I it again. I don't

20:10

know if that's feasible, but. If.

20:13

You had a magic wand. How would you fix

20:15

this? Oh. I knew

20:17

we would hope to have. More

20:20

consequences for people who are caught

20:22

doing frauds. But the problem is

20:24

now. We also have these professional

20:26

scammers of which we call paper

20:28

mills which are networks of people

20:30

making money selling completely fake papers

20:32

to authors who need to publish

20:34

a paper. and you can find

20:36

these advertisements. Very openly

20:39

for example, on Facebook groups and

20:41

there's old networks of people. That.

20:43

Were they advertised? Do you need and

20:45

authorship on a paper and give us

20:47

some money? I do a paper and

20:49

there's hundreds and hundreds of advertisements. probably

20:51

even thousands on how many Doesn't cause

20:53

if I'm death and I got a

20:55

palace a paper assists and I might

20:57

have a held to sit out for

20:59

a seat. Scientific. Safer. Well, do you

21:02

want to be a first author? Second

21:04

author? A third author? Because I know

21:06

first. Also, they are two years after

21:08

terrorists, their peers. Yes, I did. Plan

21:10

like I've seen: Five thousand dollars or

21:12

holsters you five hundred. I guess it

21:14

depends on the quality of the paper.

21:16

But a couple of hundred to a

21:18

couple of thousand dollars? Yes, But.

21:21

Even then, this paper has to

21:23

get past peer review. Yeah, But

21:25

it gets like stay. In.

21:27

These paper mill seem to target. Specific

21:29

journals and again, this is very

21:31

similar to a credit card fraud.

21:33

Whether first try one dollar. Oh.

21:35

Okay, dad works ok. let's now do

21:38

a bigger amounts and and. So.

21:40

They try first one paper and

21:42

if that gets accepted then they

21:44

will target that specific journal. And

21:46

send in more and. It. Seems

21:49

that some journals or even in the

21:51

loop and are willing to accept these

21:53

papers. So it's low quality journals that

21:55

accept this in general. And

21:57

they will. Look. The

21:59

other way maybe even gets kickbacks from

22:01

the paper mills where the adults are

22:04

my get some money if they accept

22:06

the papers. Wow! So I

22:08

went to move to that particular

22:10

situation that's we talked about in

22:12

this particular season of Dr. Death.

22:14

I don't think Sarah like went

22:17

out and bought a paper but

22:19

if you could I would like

22:21

to talk about the fraud and

22:23

the retraction of papers In this

22:25

particular instance, this is not the

22:27

first that you'd heard about and

22:30

Nokia and sir how to tell

22:32

me how you first heard about

22:34

this particular situation. I think I

22:36

was. Contacted by. Journalists asking me

22:38

if I heard the story about the founder

22:41

and they ask me if I had heard

22:43

about it and if I could look into

22:45

their papers. And so there's

22:47

to posers. By an opium, By a

22:49

sciences. Scientific. Post is present

22:51

at the two different conferences. and these

22:54

posters or something like signs poses at

22:56

a at a high school science fair

22:58

and they're about to different topics in

23:00

one. They use. Their. Magic

23:02

technique to cure mice have hepatitis

23:05

B in sections and in the

23:07

second posts a day. Use.

23:10

Their A Magic Techniques to cure

23:12

mice of Covert Nineteen and Section

23:14

and so these are very different

23:16

experiments and yet one of the

23:18

mouse is exactly the same photo

23:20

on both posters. And. So

23:22

does not a problem. In some

23:24

of the papers that's a Sarah

23:26

has published, he doesn't disclose. His

23:28

conflicts of interest so. As a

23:30

scientist sleigh ride a scientific paper. And

23:33

your funded by a particular.

23:36

Interest. Group. Or maybe you work

23:38

for a company? There's a financial.

23:41

Advantage set you my time of publishing.

23:44

He. Works and he has found it in knock

23:46

him by his sciences. And

23:48

there's another. Co. Author who works

23:50

at the U C L A who

23:52

also is listed and both of them

23:54

sauce patterns that are very relevant to

23:57

the topic of these papers but they

23:59

don't disclose. Them. And so he.

24:01

Either forgot to include that statements which

24:03

is very unlikely because the journal the

24:06

asked you what is your conflict of

24:08

statement and he actually sat know there's

24:10

no conflict of interest and that seems

24:12

to be earned. Not completely true. Yeah,

24:15

you'd think that would be something

24:17

he wouldn't forget. Do you have

24:19

any thoughts about the actual. Sure,

24:22

Strategies that he talks about. A

24:24

So does not a problem in some

24:26

of the papers in which he describes

24:28

this. Sarah P. To. To. Treat

24:31

patients who have some viral infection.

24:33

With another virus and a since it's

24:35

distract. The immune system. so.

24:38

In. This this paper day described. As

24:40

techniques and he described to this and

24:43

patients who were magically court pure. it's

24:45

with this Super Infection strategy. So what

24:47

is a Covert nineteen patients who was

24:50

treated with this Super Infection. Six.

24:52

Days after. Their covert

24:54

nineteen patients as symptoms started

24:57

and then. Of his a

24:59

huge he got better but I don't know

25:01

I had cove it's wise accident and. You.

25:04

Know most of the times you recover

25:06

if you are generally healthy you will

25:08

recover within a week. So he started

25:10

on day six and he got better.

25:12

Well you know he could have used

25:14

chocolate pudding and he would have gotten

25:16

better Like that is. that seems to

25:18

be not a very convincing evidence that

25:20

this strategy of the super insects and

25:22

works. Test. Wealth and

25:25

based on what you saw

25:27

a d since he just

25:29

made some mistakes and sciences

25:31

real. Or do you think

25:33

the whole thing is just

25:35

made up. I'm. Not sure

25:37

if the signs of he knocks. Him by the sign

25:39

says is real or not based on what

25:41

I see of lack of. Disclosure.

25:44

Of conflicts of interest of reuse

25:46

image of a mouse Some other

25:48

posters of that appear to have

25:50

reduced images that have passed on

25:53

for different experiments. I'm very

25:55

skeptical, but I think a lot of

25:57

people want to believe in some magic

25:59

cure for. For all kinds of

26:01

diseases and why do you think that

26:03

is? If you have a

26:05

patient who has some severe disease.

26:07

Maybe can sars severe infection? They will

26:10

try whatever is offered to damn in

26:12

the hopes it will cure them and

26:14

we all would be if we were

26:16

in that situation. You just grab any

26:18

chance of people offer to you because

26:20

as humans we wanna believe in the

26:22

success stories and. And that is

26:25

the reason why a lot of people are. Perhaps.

26:27

Charming will have the rides.

26:30

Attitude to convince other people they can pull

26:32

that off. Yeah, that's kind

26:35

of a universal quality to the

26:37

doctors that we've covered in this

26:39

series and and even other doctors

26:41

I've written about who who take

26:43

advantage of people and. They.

26:45

Seem to have a lot of bedside

26:48

manner and charm and sadly and so

26:50

many cases the patience are facing death

26:52

or serious health consequences and then his

26:55

men step in with promises to save

26:57

them. And is also

26:59

such an easy. Choice in

27:01

a way to do experiments on people

27:03

who are going to die anyways because

27:06

if the treatment and worked. And gonna

27:08

complain. Rides. And well

27:10

I just wanna thank you for.

27:12

The work that you do to try

27:15

to. Hold to account people

27:17

who take advantage of the system and I

27:19

also want to thank you for spending time

27:21

touch with us Guy A very welcome was

27:23

my pleasure to the here and to be

27:26

talking about this topic. Follow.

27:31

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wondering this is flown he since. The

28:00

What You've noticed people

28:02

think about when they hear

28:05

the words Black History will

28:07

Need Cases Rosa Parks

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Reconstruction Mlk February Black

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screen plays that sweet. There

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are so many stories.

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Of black history that we just

28:18

are not really talking about are

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thinking about especially outside of February.

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And we about the flip the script and

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Death Bad Magic on

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your house floor Bl.

29:01

Producer his neck as saying. Senior

29:04

producer is Wrestle Sense. Senior

29:06

editor is Rachel Be Stillwell

29:08

fact checking by Jacqueline to

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let him sound design and

29:13

mixing. I'd say Rothman Senior

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Managing producer is Lotta Pandya

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Coordinating producer is Heather. Below

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that. Produced by

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Story for executive. Producers

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executive producers are George Lavender

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