0:00

It matters to some

0:00

extent because you're building a

0:03

lot of patterns for how you're

0:03

going to work. But after you've

0:08

had five years under your belt,

0:08

10 years under your belt, that

0:14

degree and what you chose, the

0:14

fact that you completed it is

0:18

important, but what you chose is

0:18

less important because all of

0:22

the experience is going to

0:22

outweigh your college degree.

0:42

Hi, everybody, and

0:42

welcome back to the podcast, I'm

0:45

going to jump right into it.

0:45

Because I'm so excited about my

0:50

guest today. This is a really

0:50

good friend of mine, I mean,

0:54

literally one of my best

0:54

friends. And she wasn't even

0:58

sure what she would have to

0:58

offer to all of you. But I just

1:03

knew she would have some amazing

1:03

knowledge and wisdom and

1:07

experiences to share. And I was

1:07

right. So Van Tran is a multi

1:12

talented entrepreneur and

1:12

founder with deep marketing and

1:16

operational expertise in some

1:16

very large, impressive

1:20

companies. And now she's running

1:20

her own small business. And

1:25

she's doing a great job. And I'm

1:25

so impressed by this woman. The

1:30

other thing that I'm so

1:30

impressed by is that she's got

1:34

skills. And she knows that she

1:34

has those skills, she's

1:38

confident and will take risks,

1:38

because she knows that she can

1:42

handle whatever she says yes to.

1:42

And that kind of confidence, I

1:47

think is rare. And it's often

1:47

hard for students to wrap their

1:52

heads around that. But Van is

1:52

such a great example of someone

1:56

who knows themselves well knows

1:56

what they're capable of, and

2:01

trust themselves to take certain

2:01

types of risks. You'll hear in

2:06

our interview, she talks a lot

2:06

about her kind of career pivots,

2:11

and the things that she took on

2:11

even in college, that a lot of

2:15

people would say What are you

2:15

doing, but she crushed it. And

2:20

she's so much better off for

2:20

having taken those risks. So

2:24

I'll let you listen to the

2:24

interview. And I'll see you on

2:29

the other side. Okay. Hi, Van,

2:29

thank you for joining me.

2:33

I'm so excited to be

2:33

here. Thank you for having me.

2:38

Well, I'm really

2:38

excited to talk with you about

2:41

your career trajectory and what

2:41

you're doing now. But I'll start

2:45

with just a basic context here.

2:45

So your child of immigrant,

2:49

refugees actually, and in, I can

2:49

say, our Asian community, we

2:54

have some stereotypical careers

2:54

that we like to encourage our

2:58

kids to pursue, because we think

2:58

it'll bring them you know,

3:02

respect and financial stability

3:02

in a place where, you know,

3:06

that's why we came here. And the

3:06

listeners know, my journey on

3:10

this path. But I would love to

3:10

hear a little bit more about

3:14

yours, and how it led you to art

3:14

school.

3:18

Education was

3:18

something that was not on the

3:22

table to even be argued about,

3:22

like it was just assumed. And if

3:30

there was any question about

3:30

education, it's what level of

3:33

degree you're going to get. So

3:33

my parents, like you said, are

3:41

immigrants, refugees, they

3:41

absolutely understood the value

3:45

of education. I'm pretty sure

3:45

and this is sad that I don't

3:49

know this. But this is also part

3:49

of my reconnecting journey with

3:53

my parents and getting to know

3:53

them better than fairly sure

3:56

they went to college in Vietnam,

3:56

came to the States and got their

4:02

AAA because nothing translates

4:02

from another country to the US.

4:07

And there was in electronics, so

4:07

they were already getting into

4:14

tech early on. And for my

4:14

brother, my sister, and I, it

4:20

was really a matter of like,

4:20

Okay, now we're here and you

4:23

have all the opportunities to do

4:23

amazing things. So please do

4:27

amazing things. For some reason.

4:27

Myself as the middle child, and

4:35

this is where I find a fence.

4:35

Like, your typical Asian parent

4:42

is lawyer or doctor, maybe

4:42

engineer, and for whatever

4:50

reason, it has like maybe you

4:50

can be like a dentist or an

4:53

accountant and I found like, so

4:53

much offense so that I just took

4:58

that too. mean, he didn't really

4:58

believe in my capabilities, he's

5:03

like, okay, way to aim for the

5:03

middle dad, like, I don't know,

5:07

you've told me all the time to

5:07

really, really pursue a higher

5:13

education to do amazing things.

5:13

And they've always treated me

5:17

that way. There was never a

5:17

question that I couldn't achieve

5:21

anything that I wanted. And it

5:21

was a matter of like making sure

5:24

that I wanted something big. So

5:24

that bit of information from my

5:28

dad was very jarring for me. And

5:28

maybe on a subconscious level,

5:34

somewhat fraying where I was

5:34

like, Oh, well, if that's what

5:39

you want, for me, I, I can do

5:39

whatever. In any case, coming

5:43

into that age where I was

5:43

thinking about college, I had

5:48

always been an artists from in

5:48

as early childhood memory, I was

5:55

always drawing, it was trying

5:55

the cartoons that were on TV, I

6:01

had collected any comics that I

6:01

could collect, and I would draw

6:05

the characters in the comic

6:05

books. And so when it came to

6:09

college, I actually didn't even

6:09

think about that. I was like,

6:13

That is not something that is

6:13

acceptable, because it is risky.

6:18

And it's not something that I

6:18

would consider. I'm from San

6:22

Jose, San Jose State University

6:22

is nearby, all of my aunt's went

6:28

to San Jose State. And I didn't

6:28

even think about the program,

6:32

specifically, maybe a few

6:32

things. I mean, San Jose State

6:35

is known for their engineering.

6:35

They're also known for their

6:38

art, school, and science. So

6:38

some thoughts there was like, I

6:44

can go to San Jose State and get

6:44

a biology degree as like a pre

6:49

med type thing. And I totally

6:49

bought into that, went, started

6:56

taking some biology classes,

6:56

took all of those classes, and

7:00

on the side decided to take some

7:00

art classes, because it's

7:03

something that I love. And I

7:03

thought I can do that on the

7:05

side. Well, I think after a

7:05

year, I realized this is not

7:12

what I want to do. I didn't want

7:12

to go into the medical field,

7:18

mostly because the idea of blood

7:18

and all of that was not

7:22

something that I was interested

7:22

in. And so I actually went and

7:29

pursued an art degree. And even

7:29

then there's like that, that

7:34

part of me that thought, like,

7:34

how can I make art also

7:38

practical. And so I looked at a

7:38

couple different art degrees

7:44

that would allow me to do that,

7:44

which is graphic design, and

7:48

illustration, and animation. San

7:48

Jose State has an extremely

7:52

strong program. And some of the

7:52

best artists who are working in

7:58

the industry on Star Wars on

7:58

whatever have come from San Jose

8:02

State. I didn't know that at the

8:02

time. I just knew it was hard. I

8:06

think they allowed, I don't

8:06

know, 20 to 40 students in every

8:14

year. And so I went and just

8:14

started taking all of the

8:18

prerequisite classes and

8:18

decided, okay, let fate decide

8:24

if I can get in then great. I'm

8:24

going to do this. And I got in

8:29

and didn't tell my parents

8:32

Really like that

8:32

was the thought in my mind. What

8:34

what were what were your parents

8:34

that gay while this was

8:37

happening, while you were even

8:37

just taking the prereqs that

8:40

they know about it.

8:42

I was raised in a

8:42

household where you listen to

8:45

your parents, and I decided that

8:45

if I were to ask them for

8:52

permission, I would be leaving

8:52

the decision in their hands. And

8:59

I wanted to fully own my

8:59

decision. And I also was very

9:05

confident that whatever I did,

9:05

I'm going to make it. So it

9:09

really didn't matter to me, it

9:09

was just, I knew I was capable.

9:13

Even if, let's say I get out of

9:13

college, and I don't pursue art.

9:20

I didn't care I was doing this

9:20

for myself. And it was something

9:23

that I loved and something that

9:23

I absolutely valued and still

9:28

value to this day because it

9:28

actually does lend itself which

9:32

we'll talk about this to kind of

9:32

my journey, my career and where

9:36

it's led me today. So I went and

9:36

got this art degree and I didn't

9:40

tell them until probably right

9:40

before I

9:46

It's just so

9:46

amazing and knowing you

9:48

personally I'm sensing a theme,

9:48

but I love that you were able to

9:52

listen to yourself, you know at

9:52

the risk of displeasing your

9:56

parents. I think that That is

9:56

one of the biggest struggles for

10:00

teenagers and young adults is to

10:00

learn how to listen to

10:03

themselves. So how did you learn

10:03

how to do that? How did you

10:07

learn how to trust yourself like

10:07

that?

10:11

Well, I employed that

10:11

asked for forgiveness rather

10:15

than permission. And I said,

10:15

this is my life. And at the end

10:20

of the day, I actually

10:20

understood what my parents fears

10:25

were and their fears, were just

10:25

making sure that I had a degree

10:30

that would allow me to support

10:30

myself. So being self sufficient

10:36

is also a value that I have. So

10:36

while I was in college, taking

10:41

my classes, and I ended up

10:41

somehow, I don't even know how

10:46

this happened. But I got a

10:46

junior web engineering job in

10:51

the middle of art school, how I

10:51

rationalized it is that if I

10:56

could marry the tech, and the

10:56

art together and work on

11:00

websites, web design, digital,

11:00

then it would allow me to have a

11:06

career that I was passionate

11:06

about, it would give me a

11:11

creative outlet while also being

11:11

able to earn a decent living.

11:16

And so this is where it all kind

11:16

of falls apart a little bit is

11:21

that I really got into it. Like

11:21

I went to boot camp, I got

11:26

really into the web development.

11:26

And for a moment, I was like, Do

11:32

I need a degree? Yes, yes, you

11:32

do, because it does open doors.

11:37

And so I actually did take a

11:37

semester off because my grades

11:42

were impacted. And fortunately,

11:42

I wasn't kicked out of the

11:47

program. I got an arts degree,

11:47

my parents were just like, oh, I

11:53

have one aunt who's a lawyer.

11:53

And she's like, Van, how are you

11:58

going to make a living? What are

11:58

you going to do? And honestly,

12:03

at this point, 20 years, after

12:03

graduating, it really doesn't

12:09

matter. I mean, it matters to

12:09

some extent, because you're

12:14

building a lot of patterns for

12:14

how you're going to work. But

12:19

after you've had five years

12:19

under your belt, 10 years under

12:24

your belt, that degree and what

12:24

you chose, the fact that you

12:29

completed it is important, but

12:29

what you chose is less

12:34

important, because all of the

12:34

experience is going to outweigh

12:39

your college degree.

12:42

This is so great.

12:42

And I love that I love that you

12:44

said that, because you're so

12:44

right, you learn so much more on

12:47

the job. And that defines your

12:47

path going forward much more

12:50

than what major you choose. Of

12:50

course, there are some

12:53

exceptions, you've got to build

12:53

some skill sets, and then get

12:55

into the next grad program,

12:55

whatever it is, but I think for

12:58

the majority of jobs, it really

12:58

doesn't matter. You know,

13:01

speaking as a person who got a

13:01

degree in Near Eastern

13:04

languages, and now I'm an

13:04

entrepreneur, and all sorts of

13:08

other things. Yeah, the thing

13:08

that I chose to study really has

13:12

had no effect on my career path

13:12

ever since. So let's jump head

13:17

to today.

13:18

Yeah, so today, it's

13:18

kind of a winding path mean, I

13:23

think I just gave you a little

13:23

bit of insight into how I

13:27

actually got into tech. And so

13:27

the coding actually did help me

13:30

I learned a lot about databases,

13:30

and a lot about programming,

13:35

which led me into digital

13:35

marketing, I went into database

13:39

marketing, email, marketing,

13:39

CRM, which is Customer

13:43

Relationship marketing. So all

13:43

of that actually leveraged my

13:49

art skills and my art knowledge

13:49

because it gave me kind of the

13:54

tools and the framework to be

13:54

able to look at something and

13:57

understand how the human mind

13:57

breaks down content and

14:02

information. So in any sort of

14:02

design class or illustration

14:06

class, you think about

14:06

composition, you think about

14:09

hierarchy of information, which

14:09

surprisingly, lends itself to a

14:14

lot of things, including data

14:14

taxonomy, all of that becomes

14:21

useful pieces of information

14:21

from art school, and it. It

14:26

definitely allowed me to think a

14:26

bit differently and high level.

14:30

So Sheila, you and I have talked

14:30

about the fact that I'm able to

14:33

go into detail and move all the

14:33

way up to high level thinking,

14:39

and that's why because I'm

14:39

always thinking about

14:42

infrastructure, and how to

14:42

categorize information in order

14:47

to package it up and communicate

14:47

effectively. So yeah, I went

14:53

through lots of different roles,

14:53

both on the kind of I have at

15:00

corporate side working at

15:00

startups like StubHub and

15:04

working for large organizations

15:04

like Oracle and Westfield, which

15:09

is global, and then went into

15:09

agency world, which, definitely

15:14

my art degree was leveraged for

15:14

that. But you're getting into

15:17

strategy at that point in time.

15:17

And today, well, I made yet

15:22

another pivot. And the pivot is

15:22

something that I feel very

15:27

passionately about, which is

15:27

people development, and

15:32

leadership and career

15:32

development. And I ended up

15:35

starting my own business with a

15:35

co founder last year, and I will

15:42

tell you starting a business,

15:42

you will use every single skill

15:51

that you have acquired from

15:51

maybe even before college, but

15:57

I've used every bit of art, I'm

15:57

doing it myself, I'm I am

16:02

literally creating all of the

16:02

art assets, all of the things

16:06

that I learned in corporate

16:06

America, being efficient

16:11

thinking through processes,

16:11

thinking through efficiencies,

16:14

all of the measurements, all of

16:14

that comes into play. And I get

16:19

to use it with a deep sense of

16:19

purpose. So hopefully, my story,

16:27

the takeaway is that you can

16:27

start and ended up in such

16:32

different places. And that's

16:32

okay, like you can pivot. And I

16:36

enjoyed every pivot that I've

16:36

made.

16:39

I love that. I

16:39

think that's such a good life

16:42

model, like just embrace the

16:42

pivot, because you will have to

16:46

because life throws curveballs

16:46

at you. But also, it seems that

16:50

you have maybe not every single

16:50

pivot, but your major pivots

16:54

have been towards purpose

16:54

towards meaning. And I think

16:58

that's so admirable, close this

16:58

out with giving us a description

17:02

of API rising and what you're

17:02

hoping to do with with people now.

17:06

Sure, thank you for

17:06

that API rising is the

17:09

organization that I co founded,

17:09

on API rising is focused on

17:14

moving the needle in terms of

17:14

getting more Asians and Pacific

17:19

Islanders into leadership roles.

17:19

And as an executive at an

17:24

organization, when I looked

17:24

around to the left into the

17:28

array, and above me, there just

17:28

weren't very many people that

17:33

looked like me. And I felt like

17:33

I needed to make a difference. I

17:39

wanted to spend my time and my

17:39

energy, trying to make a change

17:44

using every single skill, piece

17:44

of knowledge wisdom that I've

17:49

acquired over time in order to

17:49

help other people.

17:55

Well, if people want to learn more about what you do, then where can they find

17:56

you?

17:58

Thank you, you can

17:58

find us at www.apirising.com.

18:02

We're also on LinkedIn, hit us

18:02

up, send us a message on

18:08

LinkedIn. It's also API rising.

18:11

Thank you, Van. It

18:11

was really fun to talk with you.

18:13

Thanks for your time.

18:14

Thank you. Thank you so much.

18:18

So even though I

18:18

know Van so well, I felt like I

18:20

learned a lot more about her in

18:20

the course of this interview.

18:24

There's something so beautiful,

18:24

when people can tell you their

18:28

story from their education

18:28

forward, and it opens up

18:31

something vulnerable. And of

18:31

course, you know, we're all in

18:34

middle age looking back now with

18:34

so much more clarity and maybe

18:38

some nostalgia. But I do think

18:38

these stories are really

18:41

important to tell because with

18:41

almost every guest, you've heard

18:45

on this podcast, we talk about

18:45

that journey. And we talk about

18:48

the pivots that they had to make

18:48

and how they transferred skills

18:52

from one area to another how

18:52

they thought they were going to

18:56

do this thing. And then they

18:56

ended up somewhere they didn't

18:59

even expect. And I think it's so

18:59

important for our kids to hear

19:03

these kinds of stories, but also

19:03

for all of us to hear them to

19:07

know that we're in good company.

19:07

This is kind of the way things

19:10

go. And there are many roads to

19:10

success. Success looks different

19:14

for everybody. All right. Well,

19:14

that's it for today. Thank you

19:18

for tuning in. And we'll see you

19:18

next time.