0:00

What a lot of

0:00

folks don't understand is how

0:02

much more control you can have

0:02

over the process. If you

0:06

actually invest a good amount of

0:06

time building the right college

0:11

list, it will make everything

0:11

easier for you. If you can

0:16

target the schools that are

0:16

actual fits for your child,

0:21

instead of coming up with a list

0:21

and trying to get your student

0:26

to fit the mold of what you

0:26

think that college wants.

0:44

Hey, folks, welcome back to the

0:44

podcast, it's March. And if your

0:51

child is a junior, they should

0:51

be thinking about building their

0:56

college list. I know I know,

0:56

it's junior year, it's so busy.

1:00

Oh, my gosh, do we have to do

1:00

this? Yeah, you should. Because

1:07

most students are going to want

1:07

to spend their summers writing

1:10

their college essays. And you

1:10

don't want to start writing an

1:13

essay. Before you know who your

1:13

audience is, you really need to

1:16

know what schools are you

1:16

targeting, and why so that you

1:20

can write effective applications

1:20

to those schools. So today,

1:25

we're going to do a tactical

1:25

episode on how to build a

1:27

college list. full transparency,

1:27

this is a replay from this time

1:32

last year, but this is a new

1:32

intro, I want to give you the

1:35

context for this. Controlling

1:35

the college list is one of the

1:40

places that you can set yourself

1:40

up for success, right? You want

1:45

to, of course, think about what

1:45

is your student want to study?

1:48

What kind of a learner are they?

1:48

Where in the country do they

1:51

want to live all of these sort

1:51

of personal preferences, and

1:54

we'll talk about that in the

1:54

rest of this episode. But you

1:57

also want to be thinking about

1:57

this a little bit from the

1:59

college's perspective, this

1:59

whole process is for colleges to

2:03

be able to meet their

2:03

institutional priorities. So

2:08

first, think about what your kid

2:08

needs from a college education.

2:12

And then you want to match that

2:12

up with what a college offers.

2:18

Because that can tell you about

2:18

their institutional priorities

2:21

and the programs that they're trying to develop and the students they're trying to

2:23

attract, right. And if you

2:25

optimize both of those things,

2:25

really dial in on what your

2:29

student wants, and where they're

2:29

going to thrive and what's going

2:32

to set them up for the next

2:32

phase of their life. And to

2:35

focus in on those colleges that

2:35

want a student like yours. Not

2:40

only are you going to have more

2:40

success in terms of where your

2:44

student can get in, you're also

2:44

going to have an easier time

2:48

actually preparing those

2:48

applications, because your

2:50

student is not going to be

2:50

scratching their head, trying to

2:53

think up an answer to a question

2:53

of why do you want to go here?

2:57

Or how do you see yourself

2:57

contributing to campus? Or how

3:00

will our schools programs help

3:00

you achieve your longer term

3:03

goals, these will be answered

3:03

before they even start writing

3:08

their essays. And they're not

3:08

going to feel like they are

3:13

trying to turn themselves into

3:13

something they're not into

3:17

whatever they imagine a college

3:17

may want. They get to fully

3:21

stand in their integrity and say

3:21

this is who I am. And if you

3:26

know what's good for you

3:26

college, you're going to accept

3:28

me. It also helps them if there

3:28

is rejection in the process.

3:33

Because that does happen. Not

3:33

everybody gets into every

3:36

college they apply to. If there

3:36

is a denial, at some point in

3:42

the process, they can say, well,

3:42

I truly represented myself, I

3:48

tried my best, I didn't sell

3:48

out. And they thought I wasn't a

3:54

fit. So this isn't about me not

3:54

doing enough or being good

3:58

enough. This is about there not

3:58

being a fit there between me and

4:02

this college. And it's still a

4:02

hard pill to swallow. But it

4:07

helps them not take it so

4:07

personally and not have regrets

4:11

about what they put in that

4:11

application. All right, I'm

4:15

going to start stop rambling

4:15

about this. And just get into

4:18

the meat and potatoes here and

4:18

talk you through how to build a

4:22

college list. We're gonna get

4:22

really practical with how you

4:26

figure out what your kid wants,

4:26

how you take that to use free

4:30

online tools to build an initial

4:30

college list, how you research

4:34

schools to see if they truly are

4:34

a fit and belong on your list

4:38

and how you refine that list

4:38

down to your final 12 to 15,

4:41

including what's the mix of

4:41

reach target and likely that you

4:45

really want to aim for. So check

4:45

out the show notes for all the

4:48

resources that I mentioned. How to build a stellar college

4:51

list. I like to qualify that

4:54

because you could build any kind

4:54

of college list you could build

4:56

a kind of mediocre one you could

4:56

build one that's full We'll have

5:00

reaches, and very ambitious. But

5:00

what we want to do is create

5:04

one, that's the right list for

5:04

your student. And nobody can

5:08

tell you that except for your

5:08

student. So that's one of the

5:13

things that we're going to focus

5:13

on is how to figure out what

5:16

they actually want out of their

5:16

college experience, so that you

5:19

can help them identify colleges

5:19

that will meet those needs. And

5:23

I always say that college list

5:23

should be inspiring, it should

5:26

be exciting and feel like, oh,

5:26

wow, you're going to go to great

5:30

places. But it should also be

5:30

realistic, realistic, and a

5:34

couple of ways we want to make

5:34

sure these are colleges that are

5:37

appropriate for your child, your

5:37

your child's not going to go and

5:40

fail out or get overwhelmed, or

5:40

a college where it's just going

5:44

to be so easy that they're not

5:44

going to grow. So we want it to

5:48

be appropriate for them. We also

5:48

want the list to be the right

5:51

size, so that you're not

5:51

overextending them in the number

5:55

of applications essays that they

5:55

have to fill out and right. So

6:00

not too few, not too many, but

6:00

Goldilocks here, we got to get

6:03

it just right. And that's going

6:03

to be a little different for

6:06

every student. But I'm going to

6:06

give you some general guidelines

6:08

here as to how to navigate all

6:08

of that. We start with

6:14

understanding what your kid

6:14

wants. And it's important to

6:17

remember that this is their

6:17

process and their life. Now,

6:23

they don't always know what's

6:23

best for them. And they may not

6:26

always be the best at, you know,

6:26

following all the steps and

6:29

completing all the tasks, but it

6:29

is their college experience and

6:34

their future that they are

6:34

building towards. So you want to

6:38

put them at the center of this

6:38

process as much as possible. And

6:42

for a million different reasons.

6:42

Some kids are just not ready for

6:44

that they're scared of it, they

6:44

feel too much pressure, or

6:48

they're just not mature enough

6:48

to be thinking about what comes

6:51

after high school. And so a

6:51

parent will obviously have to be

6:55

involved may have to step in and

6:55

do a little bit more of legwork.

6:59

But at every step of this

6:59

process, I do encourage you to

7:02

think about what can I give to

7:02

my student so that they feel

7:06

like this is their process, that

7:06

they're in control that they are

7:10

making decisions, even if

7:10

they're not having the final say

7:13

on something, right, give them

7:13

some peace to own and gradually

7:17

increase that so that as this

7:17

process proceeds, they are

7:22

owning more and more of it, and

7:22

you are there as an adviser

7:26

instead of a coordinator or an

7:26

executor of the tasks. So in

7:32

that same spirit, what a student

7:32

wants out of their college

7:36

experience has to really be

7:36

driven by what they want, not

7:41

what you want for them, that's a

7:41

piece of it. And so can be

7:45

really hard to separate what's

7:45

important to them versus, you

7:49

know, what's them trying to be

7:49

cool, or keep up with something

7:53

that they really want to

7:53

impress. So we like to do an

7:57

exercise, and we call the

7:57

personal college inventory. And

8:01

what I recommend is that you and

8:01

maybe a partner go through this

8:06

on your own, or maybe you do two

8:06

separate versions for each

8:08

parent. And you have the student

8:08

do this as well, maybe in

8:12

separate rooms, maybe even on

8:12

separate days. And then at some

8:15

point you come together to

8:15

compare notes, because you'll

8:19

learn a lot about what each

8:19

other is prioritizing in the

8:23

process. And it can open up some

8:23

really wonderful conversations

8:27

where you can share your own

8:27

college experiences, or you can

8:30

connect them to a friend of

8:30

yours who went to this or that

8:32

college. And they can learn

8:32

firsthand what this thing they

8:36

think they want really looks

8:36

like. And it will open some

8:40

avenues of communication that

8:40

maybe are not there right now,

8:42

or maybe could be better. And

8:42

we'd like to start really broad.

8:46

So you'll see we start with area

8:46

of the country, some kids want

8:49

to get as far away from home as

8:49

they can or you know, they have

8:53

certain medical needs that mean

8:53

they need to stay within a

8:55

certain climate or within a

8:55

certain distance from home or

8:58

where their medical practitioner

8:58

is. So this is a great place to

9:02

start. I get a lot of students

9:02

who are like, I'll go to New

9:04

England or the West Coast and

9:04

nothing in between. What they

9:07

don't realize is that there are

9:07

some really great colleges in

9:10

those flyover states which I

9:10

happen to be from one of them

9:13

that they should absolutely look

9:13

at, especially if we're trying

9:16

to think about where are the

9:16

colleges that are a great fit

9:19

for the student, because those

9:19

are the colleges where the

9:23

student has the best chances.

9:23

And I'm sure you all know, I

9:26

mean, part of the reason you're

9:26

here is you know how crazy this

9:29

process is. It's so selective,

9:29

even the most amazingly talented

9:34

students don't get into some

9:34

colleges. So you really do want

9:38

to make sure you have a balanced

9:38

list that has a mix of those

9:41

really tough reach schools that

9:41

everybody wants to go to, you

9:45

know, one or two safeties. We'll

9:45

talk about this in a minute. And

9:47

then a good number of target

9:47

schools and some of those

9:50

schools may be in geographic

9:50

regions that your student

9:53

wouldn't first think of when you

9:53

ask them where they want to go

9:56

to college, but you can still

9:56

have a really great college

9:59

expose uriens there, and maybe

9:59

it still checks all the other

10:02

boxes. So I encourage you to

10:02

have a little flexibility about

10:05

the location, if that's

10:05

something that's possible, given

10:08

the logistics of your student,

10:08

we talked about climate. And one

10:13

of the reasons we talked about

10:13

this is I want students to think

10:15

about college as a place that

10:15

they're going to live for the

10:19

next four or five years, not

10:19

just a place that they're going

10:22

to go to college and have this

10:22

fun academic experience away

10:25

from home. When you start

10:25

thinking about it as a place

10:28

that you're going to live, you

10:28

start thinking about other

10:30

things that matter, like what is

10:30

the weather, like when you don't

10:34

have a car, and you need to walk

10:34

on foot to whatever place you

10:39

need to get to? And then we

10:39

start to get in the type of

10:42

setting right? Is it a busy

10:42

city, a downtown campus? Is it

10:46

in the suburbs, it is it off in

10:46

the woods somewhere different

10:50

students have different

10:50

preferences just based on what

10:52

they like to do in their free

10:52

time, or the kind of people they

10:56

want to be around or

10:56

opportunities they want to take

10:58

advantage of, you know, if you

10:58

know your student really loves

11:02

learning in a hands on

11:02

situation, or learning on a job?

11:06

Well, you want them to be in a

11:06

place that has those

11:09

opportunities around. So that

11:09

might mean being in a suburb or

11:12

a major city, as opposed to one

11:12

of these more kind of remote

11:16

locations. So think about that.

11:16

We go through size, we go

11:21

through types of schools, and

11:21

then certain things about the

11:24

student body, the academics,

11:24

what kind of activities the

11:28

student wants to be able to

11:28

participate in. And then even

11:30

something about financial aid,

11:30

which your student might not

11:33

understand what the financial

11:33

aid situation is, or how much

11:37

your family might be looking

11:37

for. But this is a place again

11:40

for for that kind of discussion.

11:40

And then we encourage them to

11:42

rank their preferences. What's

11:42

the deal breaker, what's most

11:46

important to you out of all of

11:46

these things that you just went

11:49

through what matters the most to

11:49

you, and parents should do this

11:53

as well. And then again, compare

11:53

the notes and see what comes up

11:56

for you. And then what you're

11:56

going to want to do is take the

12:00

information that you hopefully

12:00

get onto the same page about

12:03

after you've gone through the

12:03

the exercise, you can take it to

12:06

any one of these search engines

12:06

and really just plug in your

12:10

preferences and get back out an

12:10

initial list. There are a lot of

12:14

different resources that are

12:14

available to you for this part

12:17

of the process of now I know

12:17

what I'm looking for, how do I

12:20

go find the schools that match

12:20

those preferences or needs, your

12:24

school district probably has a

12:24

contract with Naviance, or

12:27

score. If you haven't heard

12:27

those terms before, it may not

12:31

be because your school doesn't have contract with them. Sometimes they only give you

12:33

access to these tools. In the

12:37

spring of your junior year.

12:37

There are several other

12:39

platforms that do this kind of

12:39

work, what they are website

12:44

portals that you go into. And

12:44

you can research about schools,

12:49

their data, the kind of programs

12:49

they have, you can also see

12:52

historical data of applicants

12:52

from your high school, and what

12:57

their is very rudimentary what

12:57

their test scores and their GPA

13:01

was, and whether they were

13:01

accepted, rejected waitlisted at

13:06

the specific schools you're

13:06

looking at. So obviously, you'll

13:09

look at national statistics as

13:09

well. But then you can see your

13:12

own high schools history and

13:12

relationship with various

13:16

colleges that might be on your

13:16

list. And that can be very

13:18

helpful context for knowing how

13:18

you stack up against the typical

13:23

applicants from your high school

13:23

to that college. Big future is

13:27

the College Board's big college

13:27

search engine, it is totally

13:30

free to use, you just need to

13:30

have a college board free

13:32

account to look at it. And it

13:32

will take you through a couple

13:37

of parameters where you can

13:37

check off areas of the country

13:39

types of majors, you're looking

13:39

for size, all of that and it

13:43

will spit back out colleges give

13:43

you data on those colleges and

13:47

link to their direct websites as

13:47

well. niche.com does almost

13:52

exactly the same thing, I find

13:52

the niche interface a little bit

13:55

better. And you can get a little

13:55

more granular with the kinds of

13:59

majors you're interested in on

13:59

niche. And of course, your

14:03

student doesn't have to know

14:03

what they want to major in. But

14:05

if they have a couple of

14:05

interests, you're going to want

14:08

to make sure those are all

14:08

represented at the schools that

14:10

you're looking at. So niche can

14:10

be really great for finding that

14:13

college results uses government

14:13

data to tell you a lot of really

14:18

valuable statistics about every

14:18

college. And there's a really

14:21

cool similar school search tool

14:21

that can be very helpful. And

14:26

then I like to include one print

14:26

guide in case you or your kid is

14:30

the kind of person who just

14:30

likes paging through something.

14:33

The fist guide is really the

14:33

best one of these. You know, I

14:36

want to encourage you to keep an

14:36

open mind this is still the very

14:40

first stages of exploration. You

14:40

do not have to have the perfect

14:45

school yet. And really what I

14:45

think is happening at this stage

14:50

is validating the preferences

14:50

that you've come up with. Right

14:55

You said you like a school

14:55

that's 15,000 or bigger. Well,

14:58

let's look at a couple of them.

14:58

and see how you feel about that

15:01

size. And then that size

15:01

preference might change based on

15:06

what they see in that big school

15:06

category. So think about it that

15:09

way, keep an open mind. Most of

15:09

my students who get to this

15:12

point of the process have 50, or

15:12

60 schools on their list. So we

15:17

still have a lot of work to do

15:17

to narrow it down. But we're

15:19

starting really broad. It's

15:19

really important also to

15:23

consider selectivity, when

15:23

you're building your college

15:26

list, you can't have a list that

15:26

is all reach schools, which

15:29

mean, the average GPA, the

15:29

average test scores, the rigor

15:33

of the curriculum for the

15:33

students who tend to be admitted

15:37

to those schools are above where

15:37

your student is, you have target

15:41

schools where they're right in

15:41

line with what your student has

15:44

achieved. And then you have

15:44

likely schools, some people call

15:48

them safety schools, where we're

15:48

fairly certain your student is

15:50

going to get in because their

15:50

GPA, their test scores, their

15:54

activities, and profile tend to

15:54

be higher than the students who

15:58

are typically admitted there.

15:58

And you want to mix of both. And

16:02

we'll talk about what the

16:02

proportion should be. Again,

16:05

this is very rudimentary scores.

16:05

And grades are only two parts of

16:09

the profile that a student will

16:09

submit to a college. And at many

16:14

schools, they're not even

16:14

looking at test scores anymore,

16:17

we will talk about that. But

16:17

that's a kind of quick and dirty

16:21

way to judge if your student can

16:21

make it at one of those schools.

16:27

And I mean, not just get in, but

16:27

also succeed in their four years

16:32

there. So it's a great place to

16:32

start. But then you've got to

16:36

get into the more nuanced

16:36

research to make sure it's a

16:38

good fit. And using all of that

16:38

the preferences, the research

16:44

that you've done, the

16:44

selectivity, you know, kind of

16:47

charting that you've done, you

16:47

want to make yourself a

16:49

spreadsheet. So grab the link

16:49

from the show notes, and open

16:54

this up, and I'm gonna walk you

16:54

through it. Even for those of

16:57

you who may be listening in the

16:57

car, I'll try to paint a good

17:00

picture of the spreadsheet for

17:00

you, you've essentially got a

17:03

row for each college, and then a

17:03

column for a number of different

17:07

categories. You want to know

17:07

what the deadlines are, what's

17:11

the average GPA of the last

17:11

year's freshman class, the

17:14

average AC T or SATs depending

17:14

on which your student is going

17:18

to take if they're testing at

17:18

all, the acceptance rate, the

17:21

student body size, and what kind

17:21

of setting the colleges in. And

17:25

then there's lots of other

17:25

columns I'll take you through in

17:27

a second to capture the more

17:27

nuanced things that make the

17:31

school a fit for your student.

17:31

But at minimum, these categories

17:36

can help us see patterns in

17:36

things that, you know, students

17:40

are liking and have a really

17:40

quick assessment of what are

17:44

their chances, and I don't mean

17:44

chances like they have a 97%

17:47

chance of acceptance, but that

17:47

selectivity category, right, if

17:51

it's got a low acceptance rate,

17:51

and high GPA, high AC t score,

17:55

that's going to be a reach

17:55

college, right? Even students

17:58

who have perfect test scores and

17:58

perfect grades. Some of those

18:01

schools are reaches for

18:01

everybody, no matter what their

18:05

stats are. But then, you know,

18:05

you want to be able to see over

18:08

time as this list gets more

18:08

fleshed out and more finalized,

18:13

that you have a variety of

18:13

acceptance rates in there. A

18:16

variety of AC T SATs scores are

18:16

GPAs that encompass where your

18:21

students is. But the things that

18:21

should stay the same, they

18:25

should have majors that the

18:25

student likes, again, they don't

18:28

have to wed themselves to one.

18:28

But if they know, for example,

18:32

it's going to be in the

18:32

humanities over the hard

18:34

sciences, that's important to

18:34

look at. Right, they can

18:37

actually go to the college

18:37

website and look at the

18:40

departmental pages for some of

18:40

the things they think they might

18:43

be interested in to verify.

18:43

Yeah, this sounds cool. I like

18:46

the learning outcomes here. I

18:46

like the people who teach in

18:49

this department, I would enjoy

18:49

these kinds of classes. And as

18:53

they find things that they like,

18:53

I encourage my students to just

18:56

drop a link into the

18:56

spreadsheet, drop a link to that

18:59

department page, or the course

18:59

description, the specific course

19:03

that you like, the professor's

19:03

profile, the clubs that you

19:07

would want to join, because we

19:07

want to imagine your life

19:09

outside of class. And then any

19:09

special opportunities that could

19:12

be study abroad programs,

19:12

undergraduate research, special

19:16

library collections, anything

19:16

that really strikes their fancy

19:20

that they find on the college's

19:20

website. And then if there are

19:23

other things that students like

19:23

that just don't fit into one of

19:26

these categories, I encourage

19:26

them to write that here. On a

19:29

lot of occasions, if they go on

19:29

a tour of the school, and they

19:33

hear something really cool from

19:33

a tour guide, or they saw some

19:36

really cool building, they had a

19:36

chance to talk to a professor or

19:39

a student. I want them to

19:39

capture that here. And then

19:44

teenagers are really good at

19:44

telling you what they don't like

19:47

sometimes they're a little

19:47

hesitant to tell you what they

19:49

do like, but if you ask them

19:49

what do you hate about this

19:52

campus, they'll have a million

19:52

things to say is important to

19:55

capture that too because it ends

19:55

up being a deal breaker and you

19:58

know this exists at another

19:58

camp. Best while then there's no

20:01

point in visiting that campus or

20:01

even doing the research on that

20:04

campus. Or if everything else

20:04

about the school is perfect,

20:08

except for this one thing, well,

20:08

then you can use that similar

20:11

institution tool that I showed

20:11

you to find maybe the school

20:15

that is similar enough, but

20:15

avoids this one thing that they

20:18

really dislike, right. So keep

20:18

track of that as well. And the

20:22

reason I encourage my students

20:22

to be so detailed in their

20:25

research and keep track of all

20:25

of these things, is number one.

20:29

As they research more and more

20:29

colleges, they all kind of blend

20:32

together, it's very hard to keep

20:32

them straight. So you want to

20:37

document it somewhere. So you

20:37

can see that number two is if

20:41

they decide they're going to

20:41

apply to this college, the

20:44

entire purpose of the college

20:44

application is to argue why I as

20:49

a student am a match for you as

20:49

a college. And this is what they

20:52

want to hear. Right? It's not

20:52

going to end up in your main

20:56

essay, which goes to all of the

20:56

colleges. But if the college

21:00

requires a supplemental essay,

21:00

or has an interview process,

21:04

these are the things that your

21:04

student is going to want to

21:06

mention that shows they've done

21:06

their research, they are truly

21:10

enthusiastic about the school.

21:10

And they can say, hey, I have

21:15

done this thing for four years

21:15

in high school where I, I don't

21:18

know ran an environmental

21:18

science club or a conservation

21:21

club, let's say, and your

21:21

university has seven programs

21:26

related to environmental science

21:26

and policy. And this is exactly

21:30

what I want to do with my life.

21:30

And there's no literally no

21:33

better place to do it than your

21:33

program. Because I'm going to

21:36

take advantage of you know, this

21:36

study abroad opportunity, I'm

21:40

going to do research with this

21:40

professor on this topic that

21:43

I've already done some work on,

21:43

you can say things like that,

21:46

which really do make a student

21:46

stand out and help a college

21:50

have confidence that you do want

21:50

to go there, which is one of the

21:53

things they're checking for. And

21:53

also help you avoid saying the

21:56

generic things that everybody

21:56

else is gonna say, this is how

21:59

you differentiate yourself.

21:59

Instead of saying, Oh, I like

22:03

NYU, because I love New York

22:03

City. Well, hello, there are

22:06

lots of other colleges in New

22:06

York City, right, and there are

22:09

going to be 100 Other students

22:09

saying those things, right, you

22:13

really need to say something

22:13

that only you can say about only

22:17

that college. And this research

22:17

is how you figure that out. So

22:21

if you're going to do the

22:21

research in the first place to

22:23

build the list, keep that

22:23

research so that if you do apply

22:28

to that college, you have it at

22:28

your fingertips. And of course,

22:32

you can modify the spreadsheet

22:32

as you like, you can add a

22:34

column for whether we visited

22:34

what date we visited any notes

22:38

and pictures from the visit, you

22:38

can link in here. And that can

22:41

be very helpful. All right, so

22:41

let's move on to sort of next

22:45

step in the process, which is

22:45

you have this giant list. And

22:50

now you've got to narrow it

22:50

down, because not all 60 or 70,

22:55

whatever on your initial list

22:55

are going to be true fits, you

22:58

know, parents might have

22:58

feelings about them, students

23:00

might have nothing on them. So there might be some conflict around what really does belong

23:02

on the list. And then beyond

23:05

that, you also need to be realistic about

23:06

how much work this is going to

23:09

be. So, you know, in my

23:09

experience, I've been doing this

23:12

for a long time, there is just

23:12

no way to send in high quality

23:16

applications to more than 15

23:16

colleges. So that's where my

23:19

list tops out. Because you are

23:19

going to spread yourself thin,

23:22

you're going to say the same

23:22

thing to more than one college.

23:25

And they're going to be able to

23:25

tell that it's not as authentic

23:29

or that you didn't spend as much

23:29

time on this essay as you could

23:32

have to make it really

23:32

compelling and just really sing

23:36

out in your true voice. So I

23:36

encourage you to keep it tight,

23:40

narrow it down to no more than

23:40

12 to 15 schools. And generally

23:44

I say two to three safety

23:44

schools, six to eight target

23:49

schools, and three to four reach

23:49

schools, right, you never want

23:52

to stop a student from applying

23:52

to a school that they just are

23:56

enamored with. But you do want

23:56

to diversify this portfolio and

24:00

protect yourself from the risk

24:00

of maybe not getting into any

24:03

school if you put too many eggs

24:03

in that one basket. So break it

24:07

up a little bit. And what you'll

24:07

see is that every one of those

24:11

schools should be a great fit,

24:11

they should be happy to go any

24:15

of those schools. And the real

24:15

difference in them is the

24:18

selectivity not in the programs

24:18

that are offered, or in maybe

24:23

not the size or anything like

24:23

that they should really check

24:26

all the boxes for preferences.

24:26

It's just that some are more

24:28

selective than others. And then,

24:28

you know, really do open up the

24:32

discussion, there will be

24:32

disagreements we find it is best

24:36

to listen with an open mind,

24:36

even if the idea is ridiculous.

24:39

Listen, and also remember that

24:39

this is just the list, right?

24:43

The list can change. Also, just

24:43

because you apply doesn't mean

24:47

you have to go. And this is one

24:47

point in the process where a

24:50

student is really in control,

24:50

and they're going to feel like

24:54

they're not in control for a

24:54

good portion of their senior

24:56

year waiting for these

24:56

decisions. So maybe you want to

24:59

left them have their, you know,

24:59

one college that you think is a

25:03

terrible idea, but they are

25:03

really excited about it. You

25:05

know, choose your battles, let

25:05

them have something and then you

25:08

can have that fight if it's

25:08

going to be a fight when they

25:11

get their acceptances. And then

25:11

I wanted to touch on testing

25:14

strategy because as you all

25:14

know, most colleges went test

25:18

optional. Over the course of the

25:18

pandemic. Many were test

25:21

optional. Even before the

25:21

pandemic, there were, I think,

25:23

1300 schools that were test

25:23

optional before the pandemic

25:27

even started. And now it's

25:27

something like maybe over 1800

25:31

Some schools that went test

25:31

optional during the pandemic

25:34

decided to make their test

25:34

optional policy is permanent,

25:37

meaning you can apply with or

25:37

without LSAT or AC T scores, and

25:42

they will not disadvantage you

25:42

some colleges decided no, we

25:46

really need to bring this back,

25:46

because it helps us make a

25:49

meaningful decision about

25:49

whether a student can succeed at

25:52

our university. So Purdue

25:52

brought this back, and my tea

25:56

brought it back. A lot of the

25:56

schools in Florida, Georgia,

25:59

Tennessee, have reinstituted

25:59

their test requirements. So you

26:04

want to pay attention to what

26:04

the school's policies are, as

26:09

you're building your list,

26:09

depending on what your students

26:12

testing strengths or not

26:12

strengths are. So I recommend if

26:17

you are have a sophomore, I

26:17

recommend just doing some

26:20

practice tests to see if testing

26:20

is going to be a strength for

26:24

them. Because if they can score

26:24

above a colleges average, we

26:27

have seen that submitting that

26:27

score will actually help them in

26:30

the process. So if they have

26:30

strong scores relative to the

26:33

college, they should submit. But

26:33

there are some students where

26:37

testing is just not their

26:37

strength. And that's fine. And

26:40

there are many pathways for

26:40

them. But the other pieces of

26:44

the application end up becoming

26:44

more important. If you do end up

26:47

going test optional, meaning

26:47

you're not going to submit test

26:50

scores. So I like to have people

26:50

investigate this question at the

26:55

end of sophomore year. So that

26:55

if you do decide, you're going

26:58

to go test optional, you have

26:58

enough time to work on grades,

27:03

take extra rigorous courses,

27:03

build very strong relationships

27:06

with your teachers, do more

27:06

extracurricular activities take

27:10

on leadership roles community

27:10

service, you have time to

27:13

actually do that, instead of

27:13

deciding spring of junior year

27:17

when you have you know, three to

27:17

six months before applications

27:21

need to be turned in. So get an

27:21

early read on that. But it's

27:25

also really important to know

27:25

what the current policy is

27:28

because some of these colleges

27:28

that decided to go test optional

27:31

said until 2023, we will be test

27:31

optional, and they have not

27:36

announced what they're going to

27:36

do for next year. or the year

27:39

after that. Some of them have

27:39

announced you know, all the way

27:41

till 2026. And some of them were

27:41

just waiting. So we don't know

27:46

yet. So in the case that your

27:46

students dream school requires

27:51

tests, you need to know that

27:51

ahead of time so that you have

27:53

enough time to prep for the test

27:53

and get the score that you want.

27:57

So take a look at that, as

27:57

you're building out this list. I

28:00

think it's also really important

28:00

to take note colleges super

28:04

score policy. So a super score

28:04

is when a student takes the test

28:11

multiple times. But the college

28:11

will take the highest section

28:15

scores across all

28:15

administrations and combine them

28:18

as though they were taken in one

28:18

sitting. So if they take the

28:21

LSAT, they really did well on

28:21

the verbal section the first

28:24

time but not too long, the math,

28:24

they take it a second time their

28:27

math score goes up, they're

28:27

going to take that higher verbal

28:29

score and the higher math score

28:29

and put them together. Now, vast

28:33

majority of colleges do super

28:33

score. There are differences in

28:38

terms of which college is super

28:38

score, the LSAT versus super

28:42

score, the AC T, there are some

28:42

colleges that will do one but

28:46

not the other. And it seems very

28:46

unfair to me, but this is what

28:49

their policy is. And there are

28:49

some colleges that don't super

28:51

score at all. So you want to be

28:51

aware of that as you embark on

28:55

this testing journey so you know

28:55

what you're aiming for. Alright,

28:59

so let's move to refining this

28:59

list. There are lots of ways you

29:03

can refine it. Certainly doing

29:03

the research and logging their

29:07

enthusiasm is a great way to do

29:07

that. Visiting the campuses is

29:10

another way to do that. Because

29:10

sometimes it just feels right or

29:14

feels wrong. You know, trust

29:14

your gut is what I like to say

29:18

was when you go on campus, your

29:18

body is picking up on something

29:22

that you may not be able to

29:22

articulate yet. And maybe it's

29:24

about the weather, but it's

29:24

important to listen to or at

29:27

least register. Consider the

29:27

logistics of getting to and from

29:31

each school like is this a plane

29:31

ride away? Is this a bus and a

29:35

train? Is this a long drive?

29:35

Who's doing that drive? How

29:40

often are they going to be able

29:40

to get home and how important is

29:42

that to you? Over the pandemic

29:42

we saw a lot of people kind of

29:45

just contract, right? We want to

29:45

keep our kids close in case

29:49

something scary like this

29:49

happens again. And that's having

29:52

real impact on the numbers of

29:52

students that are applying to

29:55

different types of schools in

29:55

their own regions and also

30:00

causing colleges to want to

30:00

reach out and recruit offer

30:04

merit scholarships to students

30:04

who live in different regions so

30:08

that they can kind of diversify

30:08

their pool as well. And then

30:11

I've said this before, but

30:11

really try to have your student

30:13

imagine their life there. What

30:13

does that look like outside of

30:18

the classes and the diploma they

30:18

might get? Like, what is your

30:21

daily life look like? Are you

30:21

going to go to the gym? Are

30:25

there clubs that you want to

30:25

join? Who are your friends going

30:28

to be? What are you going to do?

30:28

If you want to hang out off of

30:32

campus? What's there for you? So

30:32

take a take a kind of more

30:35

holistic look at the

30:35

environment. And then you can

30:38

always do more research. Now,

30:38

here's another resource for you

30:41

that's linked in the show notes.

30:41

It's a worksheet called top

30:45

questions to answer when

30:45

researching a college, these are

30:49

a lot more detailed than the

30:49

ones that are on the

30:51

spreadsheet. And if you're

30:51

really having trouble deciding

30:54

whether a college stays on the

30:54

list or not, these are the kinds

30:57

of questions you really want to

30:57

dig into. So as you refine this

31:01

list down to your final 12 to

31:01

15. Schools, what I recommend is

31:05

turning this research

31:05

spreadsheet that I've been

31:07

showing you into a sort of

31:07

priority organizing project

31:11

management tool, right, it's

31:11

gonna have due dates, whether

31:15

the students applying early

31:15

action, early decision, specific

31:19

other application requirements,

31:19

maybe a link to the actual

31:23

application portal, if not the

31:23

common app. So what I recommend

31:27

is creating a Google folder with

31:27

all of the important documents

31:31

that you need for that school,

31:31

usually your essays, I typically

31:34

recommend one Google document

31:34

per school, but some students

31:38

for whatever reason, like a

31:38

different document for each

31:41

essay, put it all in a folder,

31:41

so you don't lose it. And

31:45

then I asked my students to put

31:45

in the actual supplemental essay

31:49

question and the word count

31:49

right into the spreadsheet. And

31:52

there are spaces for eight

31:52

supplemental questions here.

31:54

Yes, there are some schools that

31:54

ask up to eight, even more

31:58

supplemental questions. So keep

31:58

that in mind. As you build your

32:02

list, some schools are going to

32:02

require more work from you than

32:05

others. And the reason I have

32:05

them do this whole section here

32:09

is because there are only so

32:09

many questions that a college

32:13

can ask, most of them are going

32:13

to ask why do you want to go to

32:17

this school? Or what do you

32:17

think of our mission statement?

32:20

Or what are your areas of

32:20

academic interest, or tell us

32:23

about a meaningful

32:23

extracurricular activity that

32:26

you do. And if you lay all of

32:26

these out for your 12 to 15,

32:31

schools, you're gonna see those

32:31

overlaps. And I have my students

32:34

color code them and highlight

32:34

them. So you could say, alright,

32:38

well, here are all my questions,

32:38

I'm going to use this one essay

32:40

that's on my extracurricular

32:40

activity for these six schools.

32:45

And yes, they will have

32:45

different word counts, and

32:48

you're gonna have to tailor them

32:48

to each school. But they can

32:50

follow the same sort of

32:50

template, once you write at

32:53

once. And that will really make

32:53

your writing work a lot more

32:57

efficient, and you have an

32:57

opportunity to write something

33:00

really strong once, and then

33:00

tailor it, which is easier than

33:04

writing from scratch every

33:04

single time. So I have one of

33:07

these spreadsheets for every

33:07

single one of my students, they

33:11

know we're going to look at it

33:11

every time. And whether they

33:14

hate spreadsheets or not, I tell

33:14

them, you know, at some point in

33:16

your college career, or your

33:16

actual working career, you're

33:20

gonna have to get to know how to

33:20

use a spreadsheet. So might as

33:22

well learn it now. And then as

33:22

you're finalizing this list, and

33:26

usually I like to see a list

33:26

sort of finalized by the end of

33:29

June of junior year, you want to

33:29

get some second opinions here,

33:33

get someone else to look at it,

33:33

because it can be very easy to

33:36

get lost in the weeds here. And

33:36

sometimes that second opinion

33:40

can be really helpful. Now, your

33:40

high school counselor should

33:43

absolutely have a say in what

33:43

colleges go on this list. They

33:47

may not be to the point of

33:47

taking things off or adding

33:51

things but they may have ideas

33:51

for you. Or they may be able to

33:54

give you helpful context. So

33:54

that's it. I know, it's not a

33:59

simple process. It's not

33:59

something that's going to happen

34:02

in a day or even a week, you

34:02

really do want to be as

34:06

thoughtful as you can about

34:06

this, and give yourself and your

34:11

child real space to grapple with

34:11

the questions that I've put to

34:15

you here. And then of course,

34:15

the research process is going to

34:19

take time. But I hope that the

34:19

framework I've given you

34:23

starting with introspection and

34:23

reflection, to identify initial

34:28

preferences, validating those

34:28

preferences, and then doing

34:33

further research to understand

34:33

what's unique about each of the

34:38

schools on your list and how

34:38

those may serve a particular

34:41

students goals. I hope that that

34:41

framework gives you a way to

34:45

move through this process where

34:45

you feel like okay, I know what

34:48

I'm doing. I know what I'm

34:48

looking for, and I know what my

34:52

end goal should be, which is a

34:52

great diverse list of 12 to 15

34:57

colleges, any of which my

34:57

student would be thrilled to go

35:01

to and be able to do exactly

35:01

what they want to do after

35:05

college. If they went there. As

35:05

always, check out my LinkedIn

35:10

page, or the Signet website. For

35:10

more free resources and this

35:14

kind of information, you might

35:14

consider getting on our mailing

35:18

lists where we'll actually mail

35:18

you these tools and take you

35:21

through things step by step

35:21

around the college list building

35:24

process and a lot of other

35:24

aspects of the college process

35:27

and just navigating High School.

35:27

So check that out, and come back

35:31

for more. Okay, parent, for

35:31

sure, I just threw a ton of

35:36

information at you, there are a

35:36

lot of steps, this is not

35:39

something you're gonna get done

35:39

in a day, this is going to take

35:41

several weeks, and a lot of

35:41

reflection time and research

35:45

time on the part of your

35:45

student. So give it some space,

35:49

digest it, come back, listen in

35:49

little clips, and then you'll

35:53

get through it. But if you feel

35:53

like you need a little bit more

35:56

help, if you feel like this is

35:56

gonna go so much better if I

36:01

were talking directly to your

36:01

student, and you didn't have to

36:04

kind of play this game of

36:04

telephone with them and try to

36:08

motivate them on your own. We

36:08

all know teenagers like

36:11

listening to other people more

36:11

than their parents. I have a

36:14

live bootcamp coming up starting

36:14

on March 24. It's going to be

36:20

four sessions once a week for

36:20

about an hour and 15 minutes

36:25

each. And I am going to

36:25

personally guide students

36:29

through these reflection

36:29

exercises through the research

36:33

process and the tracking and the

36:33

narrowing to help them get a

36:38

good college list in place that

36:38

you can then go use to

36:42

restructure your visits, and

36:42

plan out your summer writing.

36:46

And all of the things that I

36:46

talked about benefit of

36:50

investing in doing a college

36:50

list up ahead of time, you're

36:53

going to be able to take

36:53

advantage of all of that. And

36:56

I'm completely full on working

36:56

with one on one students. So if

37:00

you think you want your students

37:00

who are with me personally, this

37:03

is one of the only ways they're

37:03

going to be able to do that. So

37:05

please check that out on our

37:05

circle community. And on our

37:10

website. We'll also link it in

37:10

the show notes. And if that

37:13

feels like it's a fit for you or

37:13

your kid, please sign up.

37:18

Alright, that's all folks. We'll

37:18

see you next week. Bye bye.