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the show... all about games and their

2:01

many forms. Games played on desktops,

2:03

laptops and consoles. Also games that

2:05

involve dice, luck and cardboard. I'm

2:08

your host Jeff Cannata spelled with two N's and one

2:10

T and I am joined as always by my friend

2:12

slash co-host slash

2:15

nemesis. The guy who's starting

2:17

a new era. Mr. Christian

2:21

Spicer. Hello Christian. Hello

2:24

Jeff. Hello everyone. Unfortunately it is the same era.

2:26

I do have an announcement to make. I

2:30

did not win the Powerball drawing.

2:32

I really thought I was here.

2:34

That's why you're still here. Yeah. I

2:37

really... Ooh it felt

2:39

good. Now here's the question. If you had one, would

2:41

you still show up just to rub it in

2:43

my face or would you just have peeped out

2:46

so fast that there would literally just be a

2:48

cloud outline of you like in the cartoon?

2:51

This is a great question and I don't mean it

2:53

as a tease to our audience or like a push

2:55

towards Patreon but I have a longer answer for that

2:57

that I probably will save for a Wednesday show because

2:59

I have it all thought out. Wow. Wow.

3:02

I really thought I was gonna win.

3:05

Yeah that's funny that. You know?

3:07

You had a real good feeling about it. Those

3:09

ten bucks. Bad news for

3:11

you, good news for us. Christian Spicer. Well

3:14

medium news for us I guess. Yeah maybe.

3:16

We do have good news for us though,

3:18

ladies and gentlemen. We got

3:20

a big show for you. We got all kinds of

3:22

really interesting news to get to. Stuff percolating,

3:25

stuff some really interesting

3:28

studies, some interesting industry

3:31

news about the video game

3:33

industry and also some really

3:35

cool video games to talk about. We

3:37

got some hidden gems for you ladies

3:39

and gentlemen. It's a hidden gem week

3:42

on DLC and

3:45

we have an awesome guest to do it

3:47

with. You know that DLC always stands for

3:49

your downloadable konada and your downloadable Christian but

3:51

this week once again we

3:53

have the only guest up

3:55

till now that has submitted their own

3:57

DLC and that is... dedicated

4:01

learner of children because we

4:03

have the editor in chief

4:06

the gaming outsider podcast and

4:08

website as well

4:10

as fourth grade teacher at mod

4:12

e Johnson school it's Scott l

4:14

Clark back with us hey Scott

4:17

hey hey how's it going Jeff and Christian it

4:19

is so awesome to be here I will say

4:21

I did not win powerball either but I got

4:23

the next best thing and that is getting a

4:25

chance to talk with you guys on DLC podcast

4:27

so here I am my wife asked me if

4:29

she wanted she's like you think we should play

4:32

the powerball and I was like no

4:34

but I bet if I'd said yes we would

4:36

have won it like over a billion dollars I

4:38

saw on the sign of one point one point

4:40

three bill someone in Oregon I think yeah one

4:43

one someone one Wow

4:47

not this guy goodness yeah not

4:50

yeah anyway congrats if

4:52

you're listening congrats you know

4:56

also maybe throw a

4:58

little thing at the page around for you can

5:01

follow it yeah as long as it

5:03

doesn't put any financial burden on you we wouldn't

5:05

want anyone to throw the shell if it causes

5:08

any financial burden but if you have just become

5:10

a billionaire maybe consider the

5:12

hype train level all right well

5:17

let's get into the show because we got a lot to get to so

5:20

let's start the way we always do story

5:22

of the week that

5:34

happened in the world of games this

5:36

week you can always support you can

5:38

always suggest I'm still thinking about the

5:40

billionaire helping us out you

5:42

can always suggest stories of

5:45

the week by sending us an email to

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5:49

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5:51

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5:53

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5:56

but that's not the only way

5:58

you could also participate in

6:01

the community by hanging out in our

6:03

Discord, which is 5x5 DLC on Discord.

6:05

Great folks hanging out, talking all sorts

6:07

of topics, not just video games, all

6:09

sorts of stuff. So I urge you

6:11

to take part, but Scott, you

6:13

are our guest. You get first pick of stories. What

6:15

would you consider to be your story of the

6:18

week? It is impossible to

6:20

not talk about Prince of Persia for

6:22

me. Lost Crown to this

6:24

day is still my favorite game of

6:26

the year. It was so

6:28

good. Everything that I wanted

6:30

in that style of game and the fact that we

6:32

may be getting, or we are getting a new one,

6:34

at least in early access, from

6:37

the developers of the Dead Cells

6:39

DLC. I'm

6:41

a little torn because I love the

6:43

format of the last game. This

6:46

is going to be a roguelike, which I love

6:48

rogues. Don't get me wrong. I'm

6:50

just curious how that's going to work in

6:52

terms of, you know, sticking

6:55

to what we love about Prince of Persia, but

6:57

in that gameplay format. Yes,

6:59

we have not gotten an official reveal

7:01

of this game, but evidently

7:04

this is happening. Insider

7:06

Gaming reported that a spinoff studio

7:09

of Motion Twin, which is called

7:11

the Evil Empire, is

7:14

behind this next Prince of Persia iteration.

7:16

These are the folks that did the

7:18

Dead Cells DLC and some of the

7:20

later updates to Dead Cells. And

7:23

they're going to be calling this the

7:25

Rogue Prince of Persia, and that it

7:27

will, as you mentioned, be a roguelite

7:30

of some capacity. And we've

7:33

come so far from

7:35

the years that we went

7:37

through of no Prince of Persia, no

7:39

Princes of Persia releases.

7:42

We haven't had a Prince of Persia in

7:45

what, six, seven years? And

7:47

not a good Prince of Persia longer than that.

7:50

And now we have what many

7:52

consider, including people on this very podcast,

7:55

Scott. And I know, Christian, you believe

7:57

Prince of Persia, the Lost Crown is... a

8:00

big game of the year contender already in

8:02

2024. And

8:06

there will be another Prince of Persia released

8:08

at least in early access this

8:10

calendar year. We don't know when exactly.

8:13

But my question to you, Scott, as

8:15

somebody who's a big fan of the

8:17

Lost Crown, and sounds like you very

8:19

much anticipate in this game, is there a

8:22

risk, is this too much Prince of Persia too quickly?

8:25

Is there a risk of now

8:27

kind of muddying

8:29

the waters of people like, didn't I just play a

8:31

Prince of Persian? It was really great. Do I need

8:33

another Prince of Persia? That's

8:36

a really tough question to ask because I would

8:38

say if it were going to be more games

8:40

like the Lost Crown, absolutely not. Bring more of

8:43

that for sure. My worry

8:45

is that jumping into something that

8:47

is completely different are people that

8:49

are still high on Lost Crown

8:52

going to jump in because the name Prince of Persia

8:54

is attached to it and expect that. And

8:56

instead it's going to be a roguelike,

8:58

which again, I love that genre. You're

9:01

the reason I got into rogue legacy to

9:03

begin with and became obsessed with that game.

9:06

I love the formula, but how

9:09

is that going to work? Prince of Persia

9:11

to me is very much about the puzzle rooms. It's

9:15

about the traversal, which if you play Dead Cells,

9:17

there's a lot of that in there as well.

9:19

But I don't think

9:22

it's enough. I think it's been long enough of a gap that having

9:24

two games in one year is not going to

9:28

be too much. We'll just have to see

9:30

what happens in 2025 if it does well. Yeah.

9:34

Christian, a huge fan of the

9:36

Lost Crown as I was as well. And

9:40

that said, not the hugest

9:42

fan of roguelites. I think that's not your

9:44

favorite genre. You often have a hard time

9:46

kind of wrapping your arms around a roguelite.

9:50

That said, you also love Dead Cells, so

9:53

you're an enigma. What

9:57

do you make of this? We haven't got the official reveal,

9:59

so we don't exactly. what it looks like or, you know,

10:01

I don't know if this this kind of has

10:03

that pixel

10:05

art look of Dead Cells. I suspect

10:07

it won't, but maybe, maybe

10:10

by the time people listen to this, we'll get a full

10:12

reveal. Supposedly early next week, there may

10:14

be a full reveal of this game. But

10:18

are you are

10:20

you excited about more Prince of Persia having

10:22

come off of really a high watermark for

10:24

the franchise so soon? I

10:26

am excited about more Prince of Persia. Spoiler alert

10:28

for this very podcast, we'll be talking about more

10:30

Prince of Persia later this

10:33

episode. I'm

10:35

very curious about the

10:38

explosion of the rogue type game. I

10:40

mean, it's certainly not a new phenomenon,

10:42

but it is one where that train

10:44

has not slowed down, it seems like.

10:47

And also a spoiler, perhaps, for games we'll be

10:50

talking about later on this very episode. I

10:53

do think a revitalized

10:56

brand can go a long

10:58

way to get eyeballs on

11:00

a genre that is otherwise

11:02

very crowded. And

11:04

the Prince of Persia is having

11:06

a moment again that

11:08

it had it in a very long time. So I think,

11:11

you know, as Mark from marketing, it

11:13

seems like it makes a lot of sense.

11:15

The, you know, a new studio spun off

11:18

of an existing studio that did incredible

11:20

work within the rogue type

11:22

genre. Also this subset

11:24

of the studio already worked with an

11:27

established IP and doing the Castlevania DLC

11:29

for Dead Cells that I thought was

11:31

a really, really

11:33

great implementation of combining

11:36

those two games

11:38

because Castlevania also is kind of

11:40

known for its Metroidvania-esque

11:42

style exploration and

11:44

not so much of every

11:47

time you do it, it's different. And I

11:49

think the way that Castlevania and Dead Cells

11:51

came together was a nice mixing of those

11:53

two worlds, you know, very much paying homage

11:56

to what Castlevania is and the way that

11:58

you get to the Castlevania. Castlevania levels

12:00

had a feeling of what Castlevania was

12:02

and as you explored through them But

12:04

then maintaining the essence of dead

12:07

cells as well So I feel like

12:09

there's a lot of pedigree here for this to be

12:11

a hit. I Do wonder

12:13

if it will be a hit for me personally

12:15

though, because I still do have a hard time

12:17

with Am I

12:19

am I progressing or am I just unlucky

12:22

am I lucky or am I progressing? So

12:25

I'm very curious to see what style of

12:27

game this is But I think if the

12:29

lost crown has proven anything at this point

12:31

It's that the prince of persia can be Many

12:34

genres and be excellent at them. And so i'm excited.

12:36

I I think this makes a lot of sense And

12:39

the last thing I have to say about it is Ubisoft

12:42

has never met a console

12:44

a genre Of

12:47

whatever that they're not willing to try once, you

12:49

know, like vr will do that. We you day

12:51

one, you know, I think that's cool I've always

12:54

Appreciated that about Ubisoft, but I

12:56

also think it's interesting you bring this up and I

12:59

think it's uh, it bears underscoring which

13:01

is I think

13:03

it's cool that Things

13:05

that sort of gain a little

13:07

momentum in the indie scene Can

13:11

blossom up and then be applied to

13:13

known ip, you know, I think it's

13:15

kind of neat and

13:17

I think what what is neat about that is that

13:21

It as you said shines a spotlight

13:23

on stuff that's kind of innovative and cool

13:25

and happening on a I think on a

13:30

maybe less mainstream or less uh Less

13:34

known level of the industry and then

13:36

you get these kind of bigger ip

13:38

that are who knows how big prince

13:40

of persia is today I don't know if it's you

13:42

know, it's not call of duty But I think it's

13:44

bigger than a lot bigger than dead cells was when

13:46

it launched certainly And

13:49

I think it's cool to have these kind of you know,

13:51

have these larger companies apply legacy

13:54

ip to these more

14:00

interesting things that are happening Riskier

14:03

takes on games that indie studios are able

14:05

to do and I'm all

14:07

for taking a Taking

14:11

an IP taking a franchise

14:14

especially one like Prince of Persia that's been a

14:16

lot of different things over its lifetime and kind

14:18

of hasn't been in

14:20

the zeitgeist for a while and

14:23

Taking risks with it doing different things and even

14:26

in the same calendar year go for it Do

14:28

do this one kind of game and do this other kind of game

14:30

and let them both Live

14:33

I I hope that it

14:35

doesn't cannibalize Itself

14:38

like I think that can only go one direction

14:40

right the lost crown can only cannibalize this one

14:42

because lost crown has already done what

14:44

it's going to do, but You

14:47

know, I I think this is a mostly positive

14:49

development and I think it's cool that this Franchise

14:52

that hasn't seen iteration in quite some time is

14:55

getting these kind of Different takes

14:57

these riskier games and I'm all for it. I

14:59

can't wait to see you how this looks I

15:01

hope visually, it's

15:03

as daring and interesting as the

15:07

concept seems to be because lost

15:09

crown I think sort of hit the pinnacle

15:11

of what I want from a 2d,

15:15

you know animated

15:17

looking Since

15:20

the person game it led like that looked awesome. So I

15:22

do do something else Try different take

15:24

if it's pixel art, that's great. If it's something else that'd

15:26

be even cooler I I want

15:29

it to be very different and

15:31

not be visually confused with lost

15:34

crown as well But

15:37

I'm looking forward to it and again we're supposed to

15:39

hear Maybe next as early

15:41

as next week. I heard April 10th

15:43

I think it's at a indie can in the

15:45

event called I want to say Triple-I

15:49

Interactive or something like that which is triple-I

15:51

games. Yeah, so Listen

15:53

to this it may have already come out. I mean we may

15:55

already know exactly what this looks like Christian

15:58

Spicer. What is your story of the week? I

16:04

know the story I want to talk about whether or

16:06

not it's the biggest story of the week or not.

16:09

We're too far out to

16:11

know yet, but I'm fascinated

16:14

by all things that have been

16:16

changing because of Europe, kind

16:18

of like Microsoft's business model largely

16:20

changed because of Europe. The

16:24

same from

16:28

the people who brought you

16:30

French toast and USB-C as

16:32

the standard plug on cell phones

16:35

comes Apple easing its app

16:37

store policy. The

16:40

announcement we got this week

16:42

is that Apple has updated

16:45

its guidelines to allow for

16:48

classic console emulation apps

16:50

to exist on the

16:52

app store. Previously,

16:55

that has not been allowed. You'd

16:57

have to jailbreak your iOS device

16:59

or there were browser-based

17:02

alternatives. There were other ways to do it

17:04

that didn't require a jailbreak. In terms of

17:06

going into the app store, which in the

17:08

United States is still the one and only

17:10

official iPhone app store, but perhaps by the

17:12

time you're listening to this, they

17:14

will have announced those changes too. It's all

17:16

kind of unpeeling this onion of Apple's control

17:19

over the device. But they're

17:22

now allowing these classic console emulation

17:24

apps. They have existed in the

17:26

Google Play Store or any

17:29

of your various Android, quote-unquote,

17:31

official stores for a long time

17:33

now. Part of

17:35

the reason I think this is so interesting to be happening

17:38

now alongside the EU

17:41

regulations and legislation that is kind of

17:43

forcing this change to happen is

17:45

this is happening now on the back end of Nintendo

17:48

very successfully suing

17:51

a Switch emulator out

17:54

of existence. And so we're kind

17:56

of in this convergence point of a lot of people

17:58

are saying, allowing these

18:00

things to exist, but still not sure

18:02

what world they exist in. To

18:05

pull a Jeff, SisterPoint, Sarah

18:08

Bond announced that Microsoft is

18:10

working on preserving legacy, like

18:13

a team to preserve legacy games and forward

18:15

compatibility on Xbox. And I think it's a

18:17

very fascinating inflection point in

18:19

gaming history that we're going through right

18:21

now of accessibility good

18:24

or access good. But

18:27

the way you do it is bad because we're not

18:29

selling it to you. And I'm

18:31

super curious where Apple ends up on

18:33

this. Yeah, I mean, you bring up

18:35

a lot of really interesting. Yeah, it's

18:37

a mess. It's a

18:40

mess. You know, I think the switch

18:43

emulator is kind of a edge

18:45

case in that it's the current

18:47

console. Right? Right.

18:50

This isn't retro. This isn't classic

18:53

games that maybe are not monetized in

18:55

other ways right now. It's play Tears

18:57

of the Kingdom on your PC. And

19:01

probably you didn't pay for that. You

19:03

know, so I can

19:05

understand why Nintendo is like, and

19:07

then, and then, and then, especially

19:09

because literally in the court case,

19:12

they had this data about how

19:14

many hundreds of thousands of copies of

19:16

Tears of the Kingdom evidently were pirated

19:18

and used on the

19:20

emulator. So I

19:23

mean, it's not unrelated, but

19:25

I do think it is its

19:27

own thing in a certain sense. I

19:30

think this is really fascinating. I

19:33

mean, in Apple's guidelines for doing

19:36

this, they're like, Hey, by the way, you got

19:39

to be responsible if you're putting this thing out,

19:41

you got to be responsible for checking all the

19:43

rights and making sure you're able to do this.

19:46

You know, we're still going to slap

19:48

your wrist if you do anything untoward

19:51

here or the app store that brought

19:53

you flappy bird, flappy cat, flappy owl,

19:55

flappy other bird, flappy thing. Yeah.

19:59

Yeah. even more confusing is

20:01

just emulation in general. I'm

20:03

a collector. I actually just recently finished

20:05

my NES loose cart collection. I've got

20:07

every US NES game

20:09

and my shelf over there. I'm not saying

20:12

that to brag. I'm saying that to be

20:14

like emulation from what has been explained to

20:16

me was originally designed

20:18

for people that have games

20:22

for a collection, but they want

20:24

to be able to play them without having to

20:26

use the actual physical media. So you rip the

20:29

software, put it on your emulator,

20:31

play it there so you can play it as

20:33

much as you want safely without worrying about wear

20:35

and tear on the originals. But then again, the

20:37

explanation that more

20:40

often than not, not what's being done, but I

20:42

think you're right. That's the legal way

20:45

we want to be doing it. Right.

20:47

And then I was talking to my co-host about this

20:49

very story earlier today on our podcast.

20:52

And he enlightened me and about

20:54

the fact that you're not even

20:56

like from a legality standpoint, you're

20:58

not even supposed to download these games

21:00

for it to be 100% legal. You were supposed

21:03

to rip your own copy, put it up

21:05

on your hard drive and then emulate it

21:07

through the software. So this brings up so

21:09

many questions to me. How is this going

21:12

to be tracked? How is this going to be

21:14

made sure we as consumers or

21:16

the developers as the developers are responsible

21:18

for making sure that it is Apple

21:21

washing their hands and saying, we are

21:23

not responsible for whatever you

21:25

do what you're going to do, but we are not

21:27

liable whatsoever. I don't know how it's going to work.

21:30

Well, I think there's going to be a subset

21:32

of games and they already exist. There's a whole

21:34

lot of games you can just play in your

21:36

browser right now that are

21:38

for all intents and purposes

21:41

just surrendered to the public domain.

21:43

And I think there's

21:47

a huge library of those that can show

21:49

up as an app on the app store

21:51

and let you do that. It's

21:53

where you get into like Metroid

21:55

on the NES. Not so much. Nintendo

21:59

likes monetizing. that backwards compatibility. And

22:01

they have an emulator on their console

22:03

that they want you to pay a

22:05

monthly fee to use. So I don't

22:07

think you're gonna find that legally available

22:11

magically on your iPhone.

22:13

And so I think if people are hearing this news

22:16

and being like, oh, I'm gonna be able to play

22:18

all the Super Nintendo games on my iPhone, probably

22:21

not. We don't. Probably yes, but.

22:23

Well, you can now, right now.

22:25

If you want to do it

22:27

hard enough, you know. I

22:30

remember when I first got, I don't even know if it

22:32

was the first iPhone, but it was one of the first iPhones. I

22:34

think that was, there was a couple

22:36

of generations there early, early on

22:38

where I was like, jailbreaking is

22:41

the way to go. I haven't

22:43

jailbroken an iPhone in, I don't

22:45

know, a long time. But, you

22:48

know, those first few years, it was like, jailbreak,

22:51

you can't believe what this thing can do.

22:53

And then yeah, you play all manner of

22:55

craziness on it. But

22:57

I think, Christian, you're right to bring up, in

23:00

correlation with this, the

23:03

news out of Xbox, which again, is

23:05

something else we're likely to hear more about later

23:09

this summer when Xbox does their

23:11

not E3 presentation. But

23:13

this was an internal email that you

23:16

were correctly correct in attributing

23:18

to Sarah Bond, circulating through Microsoft

23:20

and saying, we have now created

23:23

a dedicated team whose

23:26

sole job is to shepherd

23:28

games from one generation

23:30

to another, to ensure that this

23:32

backwards compatibility exists, to

23:34

be preservers of games. Games

23:36

preservation is their number one task.

23:40

And I think that is

23:42

really an interesting thing

23:46

for a company of that size to

23:48

be doing. And I think, I

23:51

mean, Scott, I think you're a perfect person

23:53

to talk about this with because you are

23:55

such a collector. Do you collect those games

23:57

to play? Do

24:00

you collect those games to own? If

24:03

you ask my wife, she's going to have a different answer than

24:06

I do probably. She hates

24:08

that collection so much. For

24:10

me it started out as kind of a joke when

24:13

I started to collect it. I was like, hey, it'd

24:15

be kind of fun to collect all of them before I knew how many there were.

24:18

And then it just kind of kept snowballing and

24:20

snowballing and snowballing. So I have them there

24:23

to play. I can't tell you the last time I actually

24:25

pulled out a cart and actually played it. It

24:29

was more of a checklist-y item thing for me.

24:33

When I play games, I used to love

24:35

the old Assassin's Creed where you just had checklist things

24:37

to check off. I love checking off things and having

24:39

a physical collection that allowed me to do that. And then when

24:42

I have people over and I get to show it off, hey,

24:44

look at this. I didn't know there were

24:46

this many games in the collection. And I get to

24:48

show them the really expensive one. I remember this game.

24:51

So it's a little bit of both, but mostly for the display.

24:56

I try to convince my wife it's for investment.

24:58

I'm going to resell this in retirement and –

25:00

Here you go. Yeah. That's

25:02

not going to happen. Come on. Well,

25:05

I'm not disparaging that impulse at

25:07

all. I think the completionist collector

25:09

impulse is alive and well in

25:11

myself and in Christian. We

25:14

understand it. There's nothing wrong with it. But

25:17

– I mean no. There

25:19

is something wrong with it, but I also partake in

25:21

it. But I'm not going to lie to Scott or

25:23

myself and say there's nothing wrong with it. I see

25:25

my garage. There's definitely something wrong with it. Lying to

25:28

myself is a big part of the whole thing. It's

25:30

kind of part of it. But

25:34

it's interesting to me how big a

25:36

deal this is for

25:38

the industry as a whole, how much backwards

25:43

compatibility is touted in these

25:45

next consoles. And I don't

25:48

know how many people actually

25:50

really genuinely want to be able

25:52

to play old stuff. That

25:54

said, that kind of leads into my

25:56

story of the week. But I

25:59

don't want to go there. quite yet. I

26:02

think this is fascinating and

26:04

I think it's kind

26:06

of cool that you'll be able to play

26:09

old games on your iPhone and you'll be

26:11

able to get these emulators right there in

26:13

the App Store. I certainly will probably download

26:16

this or that, play an old text-based

26:19

adventure game or some cool thing just

26:21

to walk down memory lane on my

26:23

iPhone. I think that's awesome and I'm

26:25

glad that this is, that

26:28

Apple has been forced into this kind of

26:30

thing. And I also think it's

26:32

cool that Microsoft is pushing

26:34

for this on a company-wide level

26:37

that we aren't going to lose

26:40

these things that we've

26:42

all grown up with. There's somebody kind of thinking

26:45

about that. So

26:48

I think this is ultimately a positive thing

26:51

and even though I don't

26:53

know if people are really going to, you

26:56

know, are really clamoring to play old, you

26:59

know, technologically obsolete

27:01

games. Well it's interesting you

27:03

keep bringing up game preservation, you know, from an

27:06

emulation standpoint and I feel like a lot of

27:08

people really lean on game

27:10

preservation as the purpose for emulation.

27:12

But to me that's

27:15

an excuse for, I just

27:17

want to play these games without paying for them.

27:19

You know what I mean? I've gotten into arguments

27:22

with co-workers about, you know, back,

27:26

I'll admit it, I've downloaded movies and downloaded some

27:28

stuff back in the day, you

27:30

know, back when I was younger and before I understood

27:33

the damage and the kind of thing that

27:35

we are at Napster. Oh yeah, for sure. But

27:38

I have to, not me. No, too

27:40

young, too young. No,

27:43

but I mean I've had arguments with co-workers about

27:46

that pirated movies and I'm like you can't do

27:48

that, that's stealing. Well no, it's not stealing. I'm

27:50

like would you go take something from a store

27:52

and then put it, well

27:54

no, but it

27:57

becomes mine. Like, is that not stealing?

28:01

I think that the majority of people that are using

28:03

embers are one to play these games that

28:05

they don't have to like search out because let's

28:07

be honest as a collector I can tell you

28:09

getting a hold of some of these games like

28:11

a physical copy of it is getting nuts guys.

28:14

Well, the counter argument to what

28:16

you're saying is that is exactly that which

28:18

is there's really

28:21

for most people there's no way

28:23

to buy or pay for a

28:25

lot of the stuff that will be available

28:28

here, right? And

28:30

you're not paying it to the people who made it. Exactly.

28:33

Exactly. Like when you're tracking down

28:35

an old cart, the money you spend for

28:37

it isn't going to any of the people that made

28:39

that cart. Right. Right. It's going to some

28:41

guy who happens to have found it at a garage sale

28:43

somewhere and put it on eBay, right? So

28:45

I mean

28:47

I think you make a good point, but it's also

28:50

– there's a

28:52

difference between hey, I want to play Super Metroid

28:54

and I don't want to give Nintendo my monthly

28:56

fee to – I

28:59

want to play this old game that just

29:01

you can't get anywhere else. There's nowhere to

29:03

go and buy it. There's no service that

29:05

allows me to even access it, but

29:08

there is this way. So I'm

29:10

more sympathetic to the sort of gray

29:12

area there. And I

29:14

think it's cool that basically this

29:16

will give folks a way

29:19

to kind of revisit some of that stuff that's

29:21

in the – if not in

29:23

the actual public domain in the sort of

29:25

pseudo public domain. I've

29:27

certainly gone down the road of web-based

29:30

like oh, cool. I played – just

29:33

the other day, I got into a

29:35

conversation with Anthony Carboni about this old

29:37

game, this old CG – the

29:39

CGA like three-color PC

29:42

game that both of us remembered called Alley

29:44

Cat, which

29:47

I'm sure no one remembers. There's no reason to

29:49

ever remember. You play as a little cat and

29:51

you're like climbing up this – you're in this

29:53

horrible alley with garbage on the ground. And you're

29:55

trying to climb in and you can go into

29:57

a window in these buildings, it opens up in

29:59

– to a whole other level, which at the

30:01

time was like mind blowing. And

30:04

it's very primitive and bad, but you can play it right

30:06

now. We both we googled it and was like, Oh, you

30:08

can play it in my browser. And

30:10

I did. I was like, Oh yeah, I remember

30:12

I played for, you know, four minutes, got my fill of

30:14

the nostalgia hit and then

30:17

peace out. But

30:19

there's no one that I could go to to pay

30:21

for Ali cat. You know, right? Yeah.

30:24

Another part of Xbox is positioning

30:27

right now is

30:30

again, seeing the Nintendo piracy

30:32

that's happening or happened, uh,

30:35

still happening, but with the switch stuff more

30:37

recently and trying to see

30:39

what an internal cost is

30:42

to be the ones to preserve it,

30:44

air quote, or make it readily accessible

30:47

for these more

30:50

recent older games that are for

30:53

better or worse x86 architecture built

30:55

games that they're able

30:57

to relatively

30:59

easily bring forward to future

31:01

generations of consoles and create

31:04

the iTunes

31:07

in response to Napster, where I

31:09

think everybody pirated music because it

31:11

was easier to do it for

31:13

so many people than it was to find a, uh,

31:17

reasonably affordable and easy, safe way to get it.

31:19

And that Apple came in, it was like 99

31:21

cents. You know, you're going

31:23

to have the thing. You can,

31:25

it's going to work. You're not going to have to

31:28

download eight versions of it to see if this is

31:30

the crappy version that universal put out to, you know,

31:32

get the thieves or whatever it

31:34

is. And I think as things become available

31:36

at a price that is acceptable,

31:39

I wondered to what extent that

31:42

eliminates that piracy market for most

31:44

people, not everybody, but for the

31:46

average consumer. Like, Oh, I have

31:48

my Xbox. I can play. Oh

31:53

gosh, what was like Bill Gates's favorite game? He

31:56

liked the Xbox one fuse or no, whatever it was.

31:58

I forget what it was someone. listener

32:00

knows. But like, you know, some

32:02

OG Xbox One game, and it

32:04

plays on my Xbox 20. Yeah,

32:07

it's all there. So I don't need to go and

32:09

Google to see if it works in this browser, I

32:11

can just have it all there. And I think if

32:13

they can do that internally for a cost that makes

32:15

sense, I think there's a lot of value add to

32:18

that. But I

32:20

don't think we figured it out yet this

32:22

idea of preservation and access. Well, the trajectory

32:24

of this conversation that I don't think we

32:26

want to go down now. Is

32:30

where this has if you're talking about game

32:32

preservation, the real question mark now

32:35

is one thing to talk about games in the

32:37

80s and 90s and early 2000s. But when it's

32:39

like, oh, there's

32:42

games that require a check into a server.

32:44

And there's games that, you know, everything

32:46

that comes out now, like, how do we preserve

32:48

games now, when,

32:51

in order to play them, there's an entire

32:54

infrastructure on the back end on the on

32:56

the publisher side, that must

32:59

exist. It has nothing to do with me

33:01

pushing play on my local computer

33:04

or console. It's an

33:06

entire other thing. What

33:08

is game preservation in that world look like?

33:10

Oh, it's simple. You just set up your own

33:13

server at home. And then, you know, you

33:16

and your friend. Well, that's, I that's what

33:18

I'm hoping Sarah Bond's team is

33:20

thinking about. That's what I'm hoping those people

33:22

are working about. Not just, hey, wouldn't it

33:24

be great if we could all play King's

33:26

Quest three, but more

33:29

like, well, hey, when we

33:32

shut off the Destiny two servers

33:34

in some year, are

33:37

we going to be able to go back and play Destiny

33:39

two in 2035? You know, who knows? Who

33:43

knows? I mean, the company games now

33:45

are just not available to play already, because

33:47

like the servers have been shut

33:50

down, or they just don't support

33:52

it anymore, or 2035 nothing next

33:54

Friday. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with

33:56

you. Fusion frenzy. Bill

34:00

Gates is infamous favorite game. He loved

34:02

it. It's a

34:04

fun little multiplayer game. It's like a goofy kind of

34:06

party game where you could, it's all multiplayer stuff and

34:09

in this neon look to it. Fusion Friends, I think there

34:11

was like fireworks when you finished

34:13

the level. Four player. I remember

34:15

a giant ball cage that you could roll around

34:18

with your guy. All

34:22

right. Before we get to

34:24

my story of the week, we're going to

34:26

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right, it kind of leads into

37:53

my story of the week, which is

37:55

this fascinating, fascinating study that

37:58

was just released. There's

38:00

a company called Yu-Zu, which

38:03

is an industry researcher group that puts

38:05

out these kinds of industry-wide

38:08

studies. And they

38:10

just released some new

38:13

data about the PCN console

38:15

market for 2023, analyzing the

38:18

market from the previous completed year. They said

38:20

that the PCN console market grew 2.6%, which

38:23

is pretty good. I

38:27

mean, good that it's growing because we feel

38:29

like the market is stagnating and there's all

38:32

these insane layoffs pointing

38:34

to that stagnation. But

38:37

the craziest part of this study, the

38:40

part that makes it a story of the week for me, is

38:43

that according to their data, 60% of

38:50

the total playtime that they

38:52

analyzed across PCN

38:54

consoles, 60% of gamers'

38:57

total playtime in 2023

39:00

was spent on games that

39:03

are six years old or older.

39:09

Well, you know why that is. You know why

39:11

that is? What game

39:13

came out over six years ago that is insanely popular right now?

39:16

Well, I mean, they list several of them. No, I

39:18

know. Fortnite, Grand Theft

39:20

Auto V, Counter-Strike 2, Roblox,

39:23

Minecraft, Rocket League, Apex Legends,

39:25

Fall Guys, Valorant, and Call

39:27

of Duty. These are

39:29

the top time

39:32

spent franchises. And

39:35

all of them, Call of Duty

39:37

obviously has an annual update. But

39:40

other than that, these games

39:42

are long-tail games that have

39:44

still captured huge audiences and

39:48

are accounting for the lion's

39:51

share of people's time. And

39:55

then they say, across Xbox and PlayStation

39:58

consoles, only one dedicated single-player

40:00

game crack the top 10

40:02

of hours spent. That

40:06

game is starfield. Kind

40:09

of surprising to me, especially in a year where Baldur's

40:12

Gate 3 is sort

40:14

of dominating all the awards and all the talk. And

40:17

it's certainly a big, long single-player, I

40:19

don't complain multiplayer too, but a single

40:21

long experience

40:24

that I'm sure a lot of people put time into. Diablo

40:26

4 also came out in 2023. But

40:29

according to New Zoo, only 8% of

40:32

video game playtime was spent

40:34

on new non-annual titles like Diablo

40:36

4, Baldur's Gate 3, and

40:39

others. 8%

40:41

of the total video game playtime was

40:43

on new non-annual games.

40:45

Non-annual excludes Madden, excludes

40:48

Call of Duty, excludes

40:50

FIFA. So their

40:53

conclusion was it will

40:55

be, quote, increasingly challenging

40:57

to grow a game's

40:59

player base, particularly in

41:01

our current landscape where evergreen

41:04

titles or robust content

41:06

pipelines reign supreme. This

41:10

is why we're seeing more sequels,

41:12

more remakes, annual entries in popular

41:15

series, and games that want to,

41:17

you want you to play them forever. My

41:22

reaction to this is it's

41:24

not good, personally. I

41:27

think that's not good. We

41:29

can argue that and I want to have that

41:32

discussion. But I also think that one of the

41:34

reasons it's not good is precisely

41:36

what I said, which is that everybody

41:39

wants to be one of those few

41:41

games. Everybody wants to be the game

41:43

you play forever, and therefore

41:45

they're crafting games to

41:48

be that, and exactly

41:52

making the situation where fewer

41:55

games can exist

41:57

because players are out.

42:00

to make choices in that regard. You can't

42:02

play all of those. You have to choose

42:04

one to get married to. And

42:07

in that environment, I

42:09

think that domino effect of, okay, we

42:11

want, we want, you know, Suicide

42:13

Squad kills the Justice League to be

42:15

your forever game. Oh, wait,

42:18

no, it isn't. Okay, well, that's

42:21

a massive failure. We're laying off people. And

42:23

I think we're seeing that over and over

42:25

and over again, these games that are intended

42:27

to become these multi

42:29

year long tail,

42:31

you know, evergreen

42:34

games, instead of just

42:36

being a great game in and of

42:38

itself. And I think that sort of ouroboros

42:41

of a snake eating its own tail of like,

42:43

oh, people are only playing the games that are

42:45

old, okay, let's make games that are like that.

42:47

Oh, nobody wants to play that because they're playing

42:49

the old games. Okay, well, that's all

42:52

failing means, why would

42:54

I jump into a new game if the old game is

42:56

still has people which creates the cycle over and over and

42:58

over again. Self fulfilling

43:00

prophecy leads to 1000s

43:03

of layoffs. What

43:07

do you make of this? Do you put most

43:09

of your time into older

43:13

games? Are you playing more current stuff?

43:15

I'm trying to play the newest latest best, but

43:17

that's because I'm trying to keep up, you know,

43:19

content for my show. And I

43:21

also have, you've mentioned it on past episodes,

43:23

I want to be part of the new

43:25

thing. I like being part of the

43:28

conversation when a new game comes out. And I like to be

43:30

able to speak intelligently about that. So with

43:33

one of my New Year's resolutions, actually, for this

43:35

year was to play a game,

43:37

not for review, each

43:39

month before I played a new game

43:41

for review, you know, you kind of go

43:44

back and whether I was revisiting an old game that

43:46

I enjoyed or maybe pick up on a game that

43:48

I just missed for some reason, or the one that

43:50

everybody's talking about, I just try to stick to that.

43:53

You know, because at the end of the day, gaming

43:55

is about having fun, right? Yeah, the thing that stood

43:57

out to me most about this story, though, is that

44:00

the fact that it

44:02

pretty much proves that the whole console

44:04

war garbage is just that garbage. That

44:07

like this many people are playing

44:09

these games that are available everywhere,

44:11

not just on the

44:13

one console. So like everybody that

44:16

gets up in arms about PlayStation is better than

44:18

Xbox, Xbox is better than PlayStation. It

44:21

truly doesn't matter. The numbers

44:23

are right there proving that

44:26

people just want to play the game they like and they don't really care

44:28

where it is. In

44:30

terms of worrying about the future,

44:32

I think I've kind of had

44:35

this inkling that the single player

44:38

story based experience could

44:40

be seeing the beginning of the end so to

44:42

speak, which scares me because that's where I prefer

44:44

to play. I don't play a ton of online

44:46

games. Number one, I don't have the

44:48

time to get good at them anymore. And

44:52

my social experiences, I'd rather

44:55

be playing a co-op game with

44:57

a friend where we're working together towards something in

44:59

citizens and competitive. And I think

45:01

that it's almost a

45:03

generational thing where the upcoming generation

45:06

is more interested in playing games

45:09

together with their friends where

45:11

they're either teaming up against other people

45:13

or they're teaming up against each other to see who

45:16

is the biggest and the greatest at

45:18

whatever this game is. I think there's more

45:21

than that. Just observing my

45:23

seven-year-old and his, you know,

45:26

we try to limit him on video games, but he's obsessed

45:28

with them. And what draws

45:30

him in, honestly, it seems

45:33

to me, is an established

45:37

level of community

45:39

and content that is already

45:42

around a game. The reason

45:44

I like Minecraft is because

45:46

everybody's talking about Minecraft and there

45:48

is an endless amount of Minecraft

45:51

content to discover. So

45:54

what you're competing with when you're a new game is

45:56

the infinite... introspection,

46:00

discussion, YouTube channels that are about

46:02

all these established games. Just

46:06

recently, like in the last week, my

46:08

son showed me this game I had never seen

46:10

before. He's like, Daddy, this is

46:13

cool. It's this endless runner, this wild, like you can

46:15

make your own levels. I

46:17

can't remember what it's called. I think it's called Geometry

46:19

Dash. Anyway, I was excited about us.

46:21

Maybe I'll bring it up on DLC and talk about

46:23

it on the show. And I

46:25

Googled it and it was released in 2010

46:27

or something like that. Wow. I

46:30

couldn't believe it. I never heard of it. It's

46:32

a mobile first game, but there is so much

46:36

content around

46:38

it. There's all these, you

46:41

know, thousands of user made levels that you

46:43

can, that have all been rated and discussed

46:45

and talked about. And there's all these YouTubers

46:47

that have tried to beat the hardest levels

46:50

and all these things. And that

46:52

is what he's interested in. He's interested

46:54

in the rabbit

46:57

hole of ancillary

46:59

content around the game as much

47:01

as the game itself. And

47:04

I think that's where these

47:06

established properties will always

47:08

win is they've just got endless

47:13

avenues to explore. You can watch Minecraft

47:15

content until the heat death of the

47:17

universe at this point. Right. There's no

47:19

end to it. And

47:22

I think that's a major part

47:24

of what is drawing the young, at

47:26

least what I'm observing anecdotally

47:28

with my seven year old. You

47:31

know, again, he's not aware

47:33

of the newest game to come out. But I

47:35

also think he wouldn't care even if he was.

47:38

Well, similarly, I have experiences with my

47:40

students. I taught

47:42

remotely during COVID for an entire school year

47:45

and got to know them

47:47

virtually. And at lunch and

47:50

recess and stuff, we'd take times and we'd play

47:52

Among Us together or other games

47:54

that we could all join in together. And the one

47:57

that they always wanted me to play was Roblox. I

47:59

had never played. played it before, knew

48:01

nothing about it, and I would hop in there.

48:04

They're not even playing a game in there, man. They're

48:06

just existing together in a

48:09

world and just like hanging out,

48:11

talking, pushing each other in

48:13

a grocery cart and going

48:16

through a grocery store and just laughing

48:18

and carrying on. That's

48:21

how simple it is. It's

48:24

whatever's trending. It was Minecraft.

48:26

That's still a thing, obviously, Fortnite, Roblox,

48:28

all these things. I

48:31

just worry that they're not going to want to

48:33

do anything narratively. I know

48:36

that's selfish because I like the narratives in games. I

48:38

like the story and the writing and the

48:41

characterization and all this. I

48:44

don't hear any kids talking about the great stories in

48:46

the games they're playing like I was when I was

48:48

a kid. It's

48:51

even worse than that. I would argue that my

48:53

seven-year-old is less interested in

48:56

narrative even in non-interactive entertainment.

48:58

You would rather watch a YouTuber play

49:02

Minecraft than a

49:04

great Pixar movie or Star Wars. I

49:08

can't talk my kid into watching Star Wars. You

49:11

won't watch it. He's not interested. He

49:14

doesn't care about being

49:16

told a story. He just wants to

49:18

hang out with people doing something cool.

49:20

You can forever. There's an infinite amount

49:23

of being able to do that. Anyway,

49:25

we're old. Christian, what

49:27

do you think? 60%

49:30

of games being played six

49:34

years or older. What do we think? Death

49:37

knell? Should we just walk out

49:39

to the pasture now and lay down, stare

49:41

into the sun? Well, if

49:43

you're listening to this, please use your

49:46

eclipse glasses. Do not stare into the

49:48

sun even if it is an

49:50

eclipse where you are. Please don't do that.

49:52

Don't look directly into it.

49:58

I'm not sure how much the... pandemic played

50:00

into this number. I think it

50:02

accelerated at some certainly, because we

50:05

were all shut inside and looking

50:07

for ways to still connect because

50:09

we are social creatures. And

50:12

these mature, established, well

50:14

made games provided

50:16

that avenue very,

50:18

very well, you know, Fortnite, whatever these games

50:20

are, right, you're able to connect, we're able

50:23

to play with each other, we're able to

50:25

have some semblance of normalcy. And

50:27

I think this would have happened anyway. But I

50:29

think this particular 2023 timeline

50:33

for an entire high

50:36

school generation, that

50:39

is how they got together. They

50:41

didn't sit at the curb and

50:43

skateboard and sit at the 711

50:46

and meet up at the movie theaters and

50:48

go to the concert, not because not only

50:50

because they didn't want to, but

50:52

because for many of them, they could not. And

50:55

so you've already trained this style

50:58

of interaction and socialization, and it reinforced

51:00

it. So I think that is a

51:02

part of the number, if not a

51:05

whole of the number. I also

51:07

think that this isn't necessarily a new

51:09

thing. Whether or not

51:11

it is larger now than

51:13

it was before. I mean, World of

51:15

Warcraft is still the most played subscription

51:18

based MMO, and it came out

51:20

however many years ago. How

51:24

much of playtime actually was going to

51:26

mobile games that isn't reported within the

51:28

study? Like, I think that we

51:31

oftentimes like to maybe not like to but

51:33

we get ahead of our skis. And it's

51:35

like, oh my gosh, PC gaming is dead.

51:37

No one's gonna PC game anymore. But the

51:39

death this is it. This is a Diablo

51:41

three, the final PC game to come out,

51:43

you know, ring the bell, we're done. Never,

51:46

never again, never going to be this good.

51:48

Console gaming is over kids don't play console games anymore.

51:50

They're all on their devices, single player narrative games are

51:53

over. There aren't going to be any more of those.

51:56

Elden rings a single player ass game. Yes,

51:58

there's multi play. player aspects of

52:00

it and you know, summons and this that

52:03

and the other but that is a single

52:05

player game that tells a

52:07

story that is very popular and huge. Grand

52:10

Theft Auto six, I'm almost certain is going to

52:12

have a single player component that is going to

52:14

be huge. I think this stuff

52:16

is still happening. But I also very much agree

52:18

with you Jeff that a lot of these older

52:21

games now I hope this doesn't come across as

52:23

a knock to our friends that IGN could is

52:25

not. But a lot of these older games now

52:27

are the IGN of gaming, right?

52:29

Like if you Google a game, IGN

52:32

is going to be one of your first results, regardless

52:34

of whether or not that particular piece

52:36

of IGN content happens to be great.

52:38

But it's because they've been doing it

52:40

forever. And most of the time, it's

52:43

pretty good. So, you

52:45

know, the internet algorithm rewards that. And I think

52:47

a lot of that bears true here as well,

52:50

with you're looking up games to play things to

52:52

do a lot of these older games are going

52:54

to be the things that youtubers are doing because

52:56

it's still getting the views because it's still the

52:58

thing that people are talking about. And

53:00

it's a reason why Disney plus is

53:02

Marvel and Star Wars shows because it's you know,

53:04

it's turning IP or

53:06

mining IP is not a new thing.

53:10

Disney have gone to court over

53:12

it for years. So they can

53:14

maintain their so this

53:17

makes sense to me. And I think that

53:19

we are old. So it feels a little

53:22

funny or weird. And as someone

53:24

who also loves narrative games, Scott,

53:27

I would argue that both of us need to look

53:29

in the mirror and realize that the narrative in our

53:32

old games weren't that good. Well,

53:37

the good news is even if it does ever stop,

53:40

if the if the narrative games just stop being a

53:42

thing, and it's all social or online stuff, I

53:44

got plenty of games to catch up on guys. Like,

53:46

God, so many games I've

53:49

never gone back and let the

53:51

industry collapse. I can go into

53:53

my backlog. Yeah. Sarah, making sure

53:56

that games are preserved for

53:58

the inevitable crash. I'm never going

54:00

to run out. I like that I don't break my glasses.

54:02

I'm good to go. Sorry, I said I don't break my

54:04

glasses. I didn't have one other thing I wanted to address.

54:06

You were talking about like games like Elden Ring, which like

54:08

you said is a single player experience. But

54:11

I would also argue that I believe a

54:13

lot of the popularity for that game was

54:16

because of social media. Because

54:18

that game was so well

54:20

received in short little clips like

54:22

on TikTok, you know, where

54:25

people are watching this one

54:27

little thing happen. And when that

54:29

game came out, and

54:31

I'm scrolling through TikTok, it was like

54:33

every fifth or sixth video was a

54:35

was a Elden Ring something or other,

54:37

or somebody playing it live. And

54:39

I think that

54:41

social that online aspect

54:44

helped drive sales for that game and kept it going as

54:46

much as it did. Yeah.

54:49

The other thing about this, if I want to try to be

54:52

a little Pollyanna here, try a little silver

54:54

lining. And you guys might laugh

54:56

at this, but they also

54:58

don't say how many hours 8% is. Yeah.

55:04

Thank you. 8%

55:07

is a small percentage, but

55:09

it may be a tremendous amount

55:11

of time. You know, it

55:14

certainly is enough to make Baldur's Gate

55:16

3 a huge hit. Right?

55:19

So maybe you're cutting up a smaller

55:22

amount of that overall

55:24

pie, but maybe there's enough

55:27

room even in that small piece of pie

55:29

for everybody to get, you know,

55:31

a blueberry. It's a blueberry

55:33

pie in my mind. Maybe

55:36

if I have one blueberry, it's

55:38

delicious. Still delicious. So that's 8%

55:42

of the game number, like copies

55:44

sold. It's not 8% of

55:46

the time. No, this is time. We're

55:48

talking time. They're not even mentioning sales

55:51

whatsoever. They're saying that

55:53

the amount of time spent, 23% of

55:56

total play time spent in 2020. 2023

56:01

was on new games games that came out in 2023. So

56:03

only 23% was on new games, which is

56:07

actually this is not even games that came

56:09

out in 2023. That was defined as games

56:11

two years older, younger. So even games

56:13

that came out in 2022 are considered new games. So

56:16

that's only 23% of total playtime

56:18

was spent on new games. Of that,

56:21

more than half was spent on

56:24

big annual sequels like Madden,

56:26

NBA, 2k, Call of

56:28

Duty, right? So games that

56:30

are just that just came out

56:33

in 2023 or 2022 that

56:36

aren't an annualized game that

56:38

just like even a big sequel

56:41

like Diablo, Baldur's Gate, what

56:43

have you that accounts for only 8% of

56:45

total playtime. So

56:50

it might be a skewed metric

56:53

in that, you know, I can

56:56

play an infinite amount of Minecraft, but

56:59

I'm only going to spend 10 hours on the

57:02

single player campaign of what have you.

57:04

So if we're talking

57:07

playtime, maybe

57:09

it's not as doom

57:12

and gloom as we're making

57:14

out. I mean, there's still room for people to

57:16

play those games and enjoy those games and purchase

57:18

those games. I don't

57:20

know. It does seem to be a crazy

57:24

that 92% of

57:26

the total time people spent in games was on

57:29

games that didn't that came out

57:31

more than more than two years

57:33

ago. 60% games came out more

57:35

than six years ago. That's just

57:37

wild to me. Wild. It is nuts.

57:41

On that note, we'll take

57:43

a quick break for another sponsor. This

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friends over, it's like, oh, what are you guys

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eating well. All right,

1:00:51

we have some interesting games that

1:00:53

we have been playing this week.

1:00:55

So let's get into our playlist.

1:01:00

This is the last week of the season. We

1:01:04

are going to be playing the game of the whole world.

1:01:07

Spoiler alert, none of Scott's games are more

1:01:10

than six years old. That's

1:01:13

true story. But you

1:01:15

have a lot of really interesting ones, including one you

1:01:17

pointed out to me that I played. We can wait

1:01:19

on that or start there, wherever you'd like to start.

1:01:22

You have a lot of really cool, I think, perhaps

1:01:25

hidden gems that some folks may

1:01:27

not have heard about. Sure, I mean I've been

1:01:29

playing pretty much what everybody else has been playing.

1:01:31

I finished Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. I'm

1:01:33

still playing through Baldur's Gate III, but

1:01:35

you mentioned single player. I am playing

1:01:37

that game exclusively multiplayer with

1:01:40

my producer, actually. We get together for about

1:01:42

five or six hours every Sunday morning and

1:01:44

do that. Absolute love on that. But the

1:01:47

brand new games I've been playing, the first one is a

1:01:50

game called Beat Slayer, which is

1:01:52

a rogue, so I thought

1:01:54

it might perk your interest a little bit. But

1:01:56

This one is really interesting because it

1:01:59

is completely rhythm. They just so you

1:02:01

play as this female character that

1:02:03

is trying to rescue her, her

1:02:05

brother from an evil corporation that

1:02:07

is brainwashing the city. And you

1:02:09

do so by working your way

1:02:11

through various levels, destroying robots to

1:02:13

fight your way through to reach

1:02:15

the final boss and and rescue

1:02:17

him. But take. The.

1:02:20

The. Hook of this game is it

1:02:22

that the big city is being brainwashed

1:02:24

by this music that as being blasted

1:02:26

all over the city and so we

1:02:28

are. Character puts on our own headphones

1:02:30

and can have lived life by her

1:02:32

at the beat of or own rum

1:02:35

so to speak for says listen to

1:02:37

her own music and that when you're

1:02:39

fighting all these robots you have to

1:02:41

do so in beat with the music.

1:02:43

So you have an attack you have

1:02:45

a-are you have a on a tix

1:02:47

with stuns enemies and you have like.

1:02:50

A special attack which you have to like. ton of. Work

1:02:53

your way up to as got like three different. You

1:02:55

know, bars that you deplete are in.

1:02:58

You can work your way up there,

1:03:00

but the game rewards you for landing

1:03:02

consecutive hits on time with the music.

1:03:04

A So once you hit like twenty

1:03:07

hits in a row, you go into

1:03:09

this mode like bonus motor or hyper

1:03:11

mode. Where. Are now you're now.

1:03:13

You're attacks are actually doing more damage so

1:03:15

you it takes a while the wrap your

1:03:18

head around because you're so usages button mashing

1:03:20

your way through. Melee. Games

1:03:22

and in this when you're actually doing

1:03:24

it on, be in your dashing and.

1:03:27

The. Enemies had this telegraph look to them

1:03:29

once you start were in their patterns

1:03:31

so that you know exactly right time

1:03:33

to dodge them and how many times

1:03:35

you have to-and it becomes this. Dance.

1:03:39

Around all these enemies on my

1:03:41

cohost Zach loves the Arkham games

1:03:43

and he cause he talks about

1:03:45

how that combat feels like. A.

1:03:48

Rhythm game almost because you get into

1:03:50

this rhythm. This. Game is

1:03:52

solely that from front to back

1:03:54

and it's awesome. Arm and. it

1:03:57

later said it's a rose the you're gonna die you're in

1:03:59

a combat and you're gonna earn some new upgrades

1:04:02

and work your way through. And

1:04:04

there's actually even more. Once I completed a run and

1:04:07

then it kind of extends the story a little bit

1:04:09

and has reasons for you to go through it four

1:04:11

more times and a fifth time and all that. It

1:04:14

is very charming. The

1:04:16

music is great. My only issue with

1:04:19

this game is some of the dialogue from

1:04:21

the main character gets a little annoying. She

1:04:24

has some... She just loves

1:04:26

one-liners. So she literally says

1:04:28

in one time and I think

1:04:31

I actually rolled my eyes when she said this. She's like,

1:04:33

I'm here to kick butt. Man,

1:04:35

that's it. Like

1:04:37

using the infamous Duke Nukem or

1:04:39

the live line. It's

1:04:43

funny, but when you hear it four or five times, it

1:04:46

got so annoying. I actually went into the

1:04:48

settings and turned down the audio, just

1:04:51

the dialogue down to like the... So I could still

1:04:53

hear it, but it wasn't blasting in my ears because

1:04:55

I wanted to hear the music. I wanted to... It

1:04:58

was keeping me from being able to focus on the music, but

1:05:01

it is a lot of fun. The

1:05:03

upgrades feel good. Like

1:05:06

just the feeling of dancing

1:05:08

around your enemies and getting the right attacks in

1:05:10

and staying in beat is great.

1:05:12

And you're not penalized if

1:05:16

you miss one of the beats of a four-beat

1:05:18

measure. You know what I mean? So like

1:05:20

I can attack as long as I do the attack,

1:05:22

I'm fine. If I don't do one

1:05:24

and I just walk around the map, I'm not penalized. One

1:05:27

of the things you didn't mention is this is an

1:05:29

isometric game. And

1:05:31

so I think people might be

1:05:33

imagining something similar to Hi-Fi Rush. And

1:05:36

it feels almost like it's isometric Hi-Fi

1:05:38

Rush, right? That's how I

1:05:40

felt when I started playing it. And

1:05:42

it's interesting because I'm one of the

1:05:44

few that didn't land with Hi-Fi Rush.

1:05:47

But I landed completely with this one. I don't know what

1:05:49

it is. Maybe

1:05:52

just being in 3D was an issue for me. I

1:05:54

don't know why because I'm not afraid of 3D games

1:05:56

or anything. It just this clicked with me way more

1:05:58

than Hi-Fi Rush did. It's a very apt way

1:06:00

to describe it. Again, this game

1:06:02

is called Beat Slayer. It

1:06:05

looks like on Steam right now it's only 18 bucks. Looks

1:06:09

pretty cool. Looks pretty cool. But yeah, very

1:06:11

much, just looking at a

1:06:13

video on Steam here, it looks like, like Hi-Fi Rush,

1:06:16

as the beat goes, the environment is

1:06:19

also changing. So as you're timing it,

1:06:21

you know, ramps are going up and

1:06:23

down. Very much looks like isometric

1:06:25

Beat, Hi-Fi Rush, which not

1:06:28

a bad thing at all. It's like taking Hi-Fi Rush

1:06:30

and Hades and putting it all together. Yeah,

1:06:33

yeah. Very cool. Also

1:06:36

on your playlist is a game

1:06:38

that you recommended to me this week, knowing

1:06:40

that you were coming on and boy, was

1:06:42

it an excellent recommendation. This is not a

1:06:44

game that I had heard about. It just

1:06:47

came out. It's called

1:06:49

Mini Shoot Adventures. And

1:06:51

I described this as what if Geometry

1:06:53

Wars and the Legend of Zelda had

1:06:56

a baby. That's a good way

1:06:58

to say it. I described it in my review as imagine

1:07:00

Legend of Zelda, but instead of being a little

1:07:02

guy in a green tunic, you're a sentient spaceship

1:07:05

shooting bullets. Yeah, it's something

1:07:07

we're seeing a lot with indie games. And

1:07:09

I just love it. I absolutely love it.

1:07:12

It's really innovative to take two very

1:07:14

disparate genres that are well established. And

1:07:16

we know kind of how they work

1:07:18

and then slam them together. And we've

1:07:20

seen example after example of this. But

1:07:23

I've never seen the sort

1:07:26

of old school Zelda adventure

1:07:28

game mashed up with a

1:07:30

bullet hell shooter. And

1:07:32

that's what you get with Mini

1:07:35

Shoot Adventures. It's such a smart

1:07:37

and well executed mashup of two

1:07:39

really different styles. It's fantastic.

1:07:41

It's kind of unfortunate that I can only find

1:07:43

it on PC right now. I

1:07:45

feel like it's going to make its way to

1:07:47

at least switch sometime in the future. I just

1:07:50

can't imagine it's going to just sit on PC.

1:07:52

I'm not knocking PC. I'm playing it on my

1:07:54

Steam Deck. But the

1:07:56

exploration is so

1:07:59

rewarding. really feels like you're playing in old

1:08:01

school. I'm not talking Tears of the Kingdom. I'm not talking

1:08:03

Breath of the Wild. I'm talking like,

1:08:05

let's go find out what's behind, in

1:08:08

this cave and explore that and see what

1:08:10

upgrade I'm gonna get. And it feels

1:08:13

very satisfying. And... Yeah,

1:08:16

it's more like a link to the past or

1:08:18

even like a Minish coat or Minish

1:08:20

cap, I should say. It's that old school, like top

1:08:22

down Zelda, where the top of the screen looks like

1:08:24

a wall, but if you get close enough to it,

1:08:26

ooh, maybe there's a little way through there and I

1:08:28

could go and find some hidden

1:08:31

piece of heart. Right. And

1:08:34

one of my favorite aspects of it is the upgrade

1:08:36

system that they've got in it because when you destroy

1:08:39

other spaceships, because there's no animals, they're

1:08:41

all spaceships that you're fighting against, you

1:08:45

get these little red gems that act as experience

1:08:47

points and you allocate them into a... I

1:08:50

almost don't even wanna call it a skill tree. I

1:08:52

mean, it is, but it's not plus 2% damage or

1:08:56

anything like that. It is, you want your bullets to go

1:08:58

faster, you want your bullets to

1:09:00

do more damage, you want your ship to move faster and

1:09:04

you just plug them into all these various

1:09:06

pieces, but you can respect those at any

1:09:08

time you want to. I was

1:09:10

literally respecting my spaceship in the middle of

1:09:12

a boss fight, which I don't

1:09:14

know a game that lets me do that. Sure, let

1:09:16

me respect like back at my home hub or whatever,

1:09:18

but I can't pause the game and respect. You can

1:09:20

do that here and I love that.

1:09:23

You can even, when you're

1:09:25

fighting a boss, because the bosses are true

1:09:27

bullet hell. Like they get

1:09:29

some crazy combinations in here. But

1:09:32

the cool thing is, is these bosses have phases

1:09:36

or different forms that you kind of

1:09:38

break down and each time you do

1:09:40

that, it actually gives you a little bit of

1:09:42

experience. So even if you're struggling with a boss,

1:09:45

you don't necessarily have to go out into

1:09:47

the real world and grind to get some

1:09:50

experience. Just keep trying that boss.

1:09:52

And as long as you get a couple of

1:09:54

forms here and there, you're gonna level up that's very generous

1:09:57

about getting those levels up to you in a way

1:09:59

that. that make it not impossible to

1:10:01

play. I agree. The

1:10:04

leveling up process is really well done. You

1:10:06

can totally just farm the environment and keep

1:10:08

doing the same thing. It

1:10:10

doesn't want to restrict you. It's like, if

1:10:12

you want to play it that way, go

1:10:14

for it. And it's really satisfying. All the

1:10:16

animations are satisfying. The shooting is

1:10:18

very satisfying. It's very palpable

1:10:21

when you level up one

1:10:23

aspect of your ship. You can definitely feel

1:10:25

the difference. Oh, I am doing more damage.

1:10:28

Oh, I am shooting more frequently. Oh,

1:10:31

I am going faster. And you get really cool upgrades.

1:10:34

But also, you're doing

1:10:36

Zelda stuff. You're like going into

1:10:39

a dungeon and you have to collect keys

1:10:41

and go from room to room and figure

1:10:43

out a little puzzle. And you're doing Zelda

1:10:45

stuff in the context of flying

1:10:47

around as a ship and avoiding all the

1:10:50

bullets that are filling up the screen, our

1:10:52

type style. It's really tough. Exactly.

1:10:54

And then the game is gear gated as

1:10:56

well. So you'll earn new abilities that you

1:10:58

acquire either right before or inside those dungeons,

1:11:01

which will open up new sections of the

1:11:03

map to you. So

1:11:05

you're constantly doing that checklist. I got to go back

1:11:07

to this area when I get that

1:11:09

gear later on. Even

1:11:11

after you finish the game, it's

1:11:14

just so much fun to go explore and try

1:11:16

to get all the points on the

1:11:19

map just to see what's there and see

1:11:21

what ways the game throws at you to

1:11:23

uncover them. I'm absolutely in love with Minitude

1:11:25

Adventures. I agree with you. I'm

1:11:27

so glad you pointed this one out to me. It's

1:11:30

a two-person development team. So two people made the

1:11:32

whole game. I love the music.

1:11:34

I love the art style. It

1:11:36

communicates things very efficiently,

1:11:39

very clearly. It does have that kind

1:11:41

of geometry war simplicity of, ships

1:11:44

are basically triangles or the

1:11:47

basic shapes. But in that, it's

1:11:49

always communicating to you. They

1:11:51

will change color as you damage them more.

1:11:53

So you know that this one is a

1:11:55

little closer to being able to defeat. It's

1:12:00

very efficient and clear

1:12:04

with the player about every

1:12:06

aspect of it. You know, and I think that

1:12:08

there's an elegance there that I really admire. This

1:12:12

game, I really am taken with

1:12:14

it. And yeah, great on Steam Deck. It's

1:12:17

called Mini Shoot Adventures. Now

1:12:19

Christian, I think you'd really like this game too. Yeah,

1:12:23

it's been on my radar. I just haven't had a chance to

1:12:26

set it up and run it yet. But I

1:12:29

also like that it's bright and cheery and it's

1:12:31

not doing all of it and like you're not

1:12:33

in a dark space. Yeah. Hell, you know, it

1:12:35

definitely has that Minish Cap era or Link to

1:12:37

the Past, as you said, like a color palette,

1:12:39

which I love. Yeah. All

1:12:41

right. What else is on your playlist, Scott? I

1:12:44

got another game I actually played today, started

1:12:46

a game today called Mighty Mage, and I

1:12:49

finished it today, which sounds like a good

1:12:51

thing. Maybe not.

1:12:54

This is a, I'll talk

1:12:56

very briefly about this one because I'm going to be honest,

1:12:58

I was not a big fan of this game. I love

1:13:01

Vampire Survivors. This looks like it was going to be a

1:13:03

Vampire Survivors clone. And it kind of

1:13:05

is. You play as a mage that has a

1:13:07

choice of four different elements, elemental magic to use,

1:13:10

and then it's just wave based. It

1:13:12

is 15 waves of enemies that come

1:13:14

at you. You clear the wave. You

1:13:16

pick a new selection. You move on.

1:13:20

I died my first run, and

1:13:22

then that was the last time I died. Wow. I

1:13:26

completed a run, and it

1:13:29

gives me a one screen

1:13:32

paragraph that says, thank you

1:13:34

for, or you have completed all the levels. You are

1:13:37

now a true mage. Thanks

1:13:40

for playing. And then it

1:13:42

goes back to the title screen. I'm talking like 10 minutes.

1:13:45

And then you do it three more times with

1:13:47

each of the different elements, and I got a

1:13:49

platinum trophy today in about 45 minutes. I

1:13:54

feel like this is a missed opportunity though because I feel

1:13:56

like there's something here because what sets this game up is

1:13:58

that it's a game of the game. apart gameplay

1:14:00

wise is that you are attacking

1:14:03

by casting spells and you whenever you're

1:14:05

casting a spell you have to open

1:14:07

up a book and you have to

1:14:10

conjure up whatever spell it is that you're

1:14:12

casting and then you've got whatever abilities you've

1:14:14

acquired that each have a cooldown but you

1:14:16

don't manage them they just go on their

1:14:18

own as long as you're holding down the

1:14:20

attack button you're opening the spell and

1:14:23

they attack but the

1:14:25

downside of that is that whenever you

1:14:27

were casting your character runs extremely slow

1:14:29

so you don't have the ability

1:14:31

to move and dodge while you're casting so it's

1:14:34

about getting your attacks in dodging out of

1:14:36

the way and then repeating and doing

1:14:38

that over again I think there's something there

1:14:40

with that this is a three

1:14:42

dollar game you know I mean

1:14:44

so they're all right now for a buck 15

1:14:47

yeah and so I'm not gonna super recommend it

1:14:49

but I'm I wanted to bring it up because

1:14:51

I think that there is something something

1:14:53

there it just needs to be expanded on it feels

1:14:56

like a game that came out

1:14:59

before vampire survivors and that developer said I

1:15:01

can make that better and you're the

1:15:03

man I don't think that's the case but no it's

1:15:05

not I'm just saying that's what it feels like

1:15:07

game is just like you know brand new so

1:15:09

yeah mighty mage meant what man want to stay

1:15:12

clear of that one but my my aforementioned seven-year-old

1:15:14

came home from school one day and said daddy

1:15:17

do you know about survivor games and I was

1:15:19

like oh is he like he talking

1:15:21

about you know where you have to chop down a

1:15:23

tree and build your own house and collected you know

1:15:26

and I was like yeah yeah I know about what

1:15:28

game you're talking about he said there's a game called

1:15:30

survivor IO he and it's basically

1:15:33

vampire I mean it's a vampire survivor

1:15:35

ripoff yeah that's on iOS

1:15:37

and he's obsessed with it now so

1:15:39

my kid has discovered the vampire

1:15:41

survivor games I'm like

1:15:44

yeah I know that's cool this

1:15:46

is my favorite game of the year came

1:15:48

out he's like dad be quiet

1:15:50

yeah what's all that's

1:15:53

what else is on your playlist the other one

1:15:55

is a game I really like called kudzu which

1:15:57

is a new Game Boy game you can actually

1:16:00

get physical, well you can't now, they're really hard to

1:16:02

find the physical copies of it, but they make a

1:16:04

box and you know this developer

1:16:06

is making new, made a new Game Boy

1:16:08

game, but it's important to switch and

1:16:11

it is like five dollars and it

1:16:13

is straight up heavily inspired

1:16:15

by Link's Awakening from the

1:16:18

original Game Boy. This feels like a game straight

1:16:20

out of 1993. The

1:16:22

theme is gardening. You are a master gardener

1:16:25

trained by you know this guy that taught

1:16:27

you how to be a great gardener so

1:16:29

all of the gear gated elements are gardening

1:16:31

tools, hoes and shovels and things like that.

1:16:34

It's cute, it's a lot of fun, it's

1:16:37

not overly difficult. I think I finished it in

1:16:39

about six or seven maybe eight hours and

1:16:42

it's just got such charm in it. There's

1:16:45

actually a portion of the game where you

1:16:47

find a house that the

1:16:49

two people living in it are the

1:16:51

developers and they're like thank you

1:16:53

for playing our game and then you come

1:16:55

to find out that other characters and animals

1:16:57

in the games are named after their actual

1:16:59

pets or their actual kids and

1:17:02

there's just so much love put into

1:17:04

this game and it's just a very

1:17:06

delightful little game and I highly recommend

1:17:09

that one. It's full

1:17:11

on like original

1:17:13

Game Boy. It's monochromatic, green,

1:17:18

very retro look to it.

1:17:21

It's so retro that

1:17:23

you can tell that some of the game was developed

1:17:26

with the hardware limitations like some

1:17:28

of the hitbox detection just

1:17:31

feels a little off. Like I got hit

1:17:33

by that but he was way over there.

1:17:35

You know what I mean? It doesn't detract

1:17:37

from the game because like I said it's

1:17:39

not overly difficult but the dungeons are interesting

1:17:41

because they're all outdoor. You're

1:17:44

used to Zelda where you go into a dungeon

1:17:47

to explore but all of theirs since it's

1:17:49

a gardening theme are outside. So

1:17:51

instead of it being a dungeon it's an area and

1:17:53

just little things like that. The music

1:17:56

is exceptional. Would they be able to

1:17:58

crank into the Game Boy? Shiptunes

1:18:00

is outstanding. And

1:18:03

for five bucks, you can't go wrong with

1:18:05

this game. It's really, really great. That's

1:18:08

called Kudzu. K-U-D-Z-U. What

1:18:12

else is on your playlist? Brothers, A Tale of Two

1:18:14

Sons. I played through the remake. Everybody's

1:18:17

played that one, so I will say if you haven't played it,

1:18:19

now is the time. Most

1:18:21

of these remakes, I play them and I'm

1:18:23

like, boy, that looks how I remembered

1:18:25

it. This is one where I played it and I'm

1:18:27

like, that looks a lot better than I remembered I

1:18:29

would kind of argue maybe that game didn't need it.

1:18:32

But this for me is

1:18:35

a remake that is for people that have

1:18:37

never played it. That game still holds up.

1:18:39

It is still powerful. There are

1:18:41

some genuinely unsettling moments, even

1:18:43

leading up to the finale. If

1:18:45

you haven't checked that one out, play it. It's

1:18:48

really, really good. And then lastly,

1:18:50

I last

1:18:53

time I was here, I talked about Pinball FX, if

1:18:55

you remember, massive pinball fan. I

1:18:58

played this game called Slot Shots Pinball Ultimate

1:19:00

Edition. This is the first time I was

1:19:02

introduced to slot shots. If

1:19:04

you like pinball, this one is interesting for

1:19:06

two reasons. The first is

1:19:08

that there's an element of chance with the

1:19:10

scoring because every single one of these original

1:19:13

tables, by the way, has a slot machine

1:19:15

right in the middle of the table

1:19:18

right above the flippers. There are

1:19:20

things that you can do on the table to

1:19:22

cause that to spin. If

1:19:25

you get certain things, like three cherries or whatever,

1:19:27

it boosts your score. So I

1:19:29

kind of love that aspect

1:19:31

of making a shot

1:19:33

that's skillful, but also adding an element of luck

1:19:35

to it. The other thing that I

1:19:37

like about these pinball tables is

1:19:39

that there's something like 20 tables or

1:19:42

so. They're all unique, very unique.

1:19:45

This may sound weird to explain, but

1:19:47

they all have a similar point economy.

1:19:50

What I mean by that is if you play games on pinball

1:19:52

FX, one table might have

1:19:55

a high score of hundreds of millions of

1:19:57

points. Another table might have... Tens

1:20:00

of thousands of points, you know, like they just

1:20:02

have different economies and for the ones

1:20:04

that I've played they are all very similar So

1:20:06

if I get a good score on this table

1:20:08

I know what a good score on this table

1:20:10

is going to be and there's something about that

1:20:12

that I really really appreciate So slot shots pinball

1:20:15

ultimate edition It's

1:20:17

really great. I played that unlike I got a

1:20:19

million points. You're like, yeah, buddy. That's nothing. That's

1:20:21

yeah Million points over here

1:20:24

is like you barely tried Yeah,

1:20:26

I get you but that Mars attacks real pinball

1:20:28

game I don't think I said played that one

1:20:30

like like it's it's in

1:20:32

the trillions like it's You

1:20:35

could you could drain the ball right off the bat and get

1:20:37

five million points. You know what I mean? It's like It's

1:20:40

kind of brutal. But yeah, those are the

1:20:43

games I've been playing so that slot shots

1:20:45

pinball ultimate edition Brothers a

1:20:47

tale of two sons the remake could do

1:20:49

mighty mage Mini shoot adventures

1:20:51

and beat Slayer. I can you tell I

1:20:54

had spring break as well. I love it

1:20:56

Christian Spicer what is on your playlist? so

1:20:59

this is Before I even

1:21:01

knew there's this rumored rogue type

1:21:04

Prince of Persia game coming. There was

1:21:06

a sale

1:21:08

on steam Ubisoft again

1:21:11

They make all the games on all the

1:21:13

systems and their games always go on sale

1:21:15

very quickly on all the systems as well

1:21:17

There are some Ubisoft sale on steam and

1:21:20

I picked up Prince of Persia the

1:21:22

sand of sands of time So

1:21:25

it's a few months ago. I think it was a dollar fifty or 199

1:21:29

or something like that on steam And

1:21:32

I had just come off the lost crown maybe

1:21:34

even more if that was January So it's probably

1:21:36

like February or March and this was on sale

1:21:38

and I was like jump I jumped on it

1:21:41

Just absolutely jumped on it and had spring break

1:21:43

this week had my out of town had my steam deck

1:21:45

with me I was like I am going this is this

1:21:47

is it. I'm not gonna waste that dollar fifty I'm

1:21:50

gonna I'm gonna play that game. Um One

1:21:55

speaking about game preservation

1:21:58

I there are some hoops yet have to jump through

1:22:01

to play Sands of Time on Steam Deck.

1:22:03

It is not a great

1:22:05

PC port, I think in general in

1:22:07

terms of playing on a current modern

1:22:09

PC, it runs, but I

1:22:12

don't think it supports widescreen, not super ultra wide,

1:22:14

not super duper ultra, you know, Jeff's wraps around

1:22:16

his head ultra wide. I'm talking 16 by

1:22:19

nine. Like the PC port is

1:22:21

this is the era of four by three

1:22:23

gaming, right? Like maybe it supported 480p

1:22:26

on GameCube if you had the controls

1:22:29

and maybe you could get it 16 by nine if you

1:22:31

held down the B button or whatever the GameCube, you know,

1:22:33

code you had to do to hardboot it into that for

1:22:35

the games that supported it. So the PC

1:22:37

version still out of

1:22:40

the box is four by three on

1:22:42

Steam Deck. It doesn't

1:22:44

recognize any of the controller inputs.

1:22:46

It still thinks it's a mouse

1:22:49

and keyboard game which there

1:22:53

are some games you arguably should play with mouse

1:22:55

and keyboard. This is not one

1:22:57

of them. I think even if you're a mouse and

1:22:59

keyboard purist, this is not stands of time is not

1:23:01

one to play that way. And so

1:23:03

I had to go into the Steam Deck settings and

1:23:07

it's great because the Steam Deck allows you to

1:23:09

do all this and I went into the community

1:23:11

forums and I found a user created controller

1:23:13

layout that worked well. And then if you wanted to,

1:23:16

I didn't go this farther step, but then you could

1:23:18

go in and download a mod for the game that

1:23:20

would show you the prompts to accurately

1:23:22

reflect the things that you're doing, where it's like

1:23:24

press F to let go of the ledge. Well,

1:23:26

instead of pressing F it's R3 and

1:23:28

you know, you can update all

1:23:30

that to have it properly display. I

1:23:32

just kind of made my mental map of what

1:23:35

to do and what buttons what. So

1:23:37

there are some hoops you have to jump through to play this on a

1:23:39

current PC. I'm not

1:23:41

sure if it's available still on, you know,

1:23:44

Xbox via backwards compatibility

1:23:47

or not. If you have to pull out

1:23:49

your console to play it, it is still

1:23:51

on Xbox. This

1:23:53

game is still absolutely incredible. Absolutely

1:23:58

incredible. And in

1:24:01

replaying it, it really highlighted

1:24:03

to me how ahead

1:24:05

of its time it was even when it came

1:24:07

out in, whenever that was, 2002,

1:24:09

2001, whenever it first launched. In

1:24:17

terms of its being very

1:24:19

cinematic for this third, it's a

1:24:21

third person action platformer in

1:24:24

the 3D world where you would go into these

1:24:26

environments and the camera will kind of zoom you

1:24:28

through the environment. As you got into a traversal

1:24:31

area or even a combat area, it takes you

1:24:33

in through the room that you're in or the

1:24:35

part of the palace that you're in and it

1:24:37

shows you where the four enemies are. Or

1:24:40

it shows you a run of what you

1:24:42

need to do, like the poles and the cloth that you

1:24:44

climb on and the wall that you do and where

1:24:46

the exit is. It doesn't tell you how to get there

1:24:48

or how to do it, but it shows you kind of

1:24:50

everything and then it allows you

1:24:53

to experience that bespoke

1:24:56

little puzzle box, so to speak.

1:25:00

And then it layers in the time element where you

1:25:02

get to rewind it and run it back and affect

1:25:05

things in real time in order

1:25:07

to progress. And playing

1:25:10

that, I think it's 2003, whenever it

1:25:12

is, playing that game again today, not

1:25:15

only did so much of it stand

1:25:17

the test of time in terms of

1:25:19

its animations and the atmosphere that

1:25:22

it's bringing to the game, to the experience,

1:25:25

but also just the idea of

1:25:27

the way

1:25:30

that you encounter each

1:25:32

challenge. I think it's very much a

1:25:34

thing that still exists in

1:25:37

the zeitgeist today with a lot of

1:25:39

the souls likes, where you get into

1:25:41

a room and it's like, okay. Track

1:25:44

your knuckles, this is going to be my challenge. This

1:25:47

is going to be the thing that I do. Or

1:25:50

the very cinematic stuff where it doesn't

1:25:52

take the control out of your hands,

1:25:54

but it pivots the camera in a

1:25:56

way to show you as

1:25:58

Ellie choking someone. one out as you're

1:26:01

still doing it, but it gives you that cinematic

1:26:03

view to really land that impact.

1:26:05

Like Prince of Persia has those moments, sands

1:26:07

of time when you run and

1:26:09

you do a big jump and you're still the one

1:26:11

controlling it, but the camera would zoom around to show

1:26:13

you from like an action

1:26:15

movie perspective landing this awesome

1:26:17

impossible jump blown

1:26:20

away by how well the game held up. But

1:26:23

it also really got me thinking about

1:26:25

I am very curious how

1:26:28

much effort Ubisoft is putting into

1:26:30

the rumored or I guess announced

1:26:32

but backburner remake of this. No,

1:26:35

it's coming out in 2021. Right,

1:26:39

right alongside Splinter Cell. No,

1:26:42

they announced it originally that the remake of sands

1:26:44

of time was coming out in 2021.

1:26:47

In 2023, last year, they said it's still

1:26:49

being worked on. So it's not been canceled,

1:26:52

but it's been MIA for quite a

1:26:55

while. Well, that makes sense. They had

1:26:57

to use the dagger and run it back and

1:26:59

change some things. They didn't like what they were

1:27:01

saying. But I'm super curious what this remake is

1:27:03

because I think there is a world where there

1:27:05

could be a very, very

1:27:07

ambitious, almost retelling

1:27:09

of what this game is, where

1:27:12

it's not just putting a shinier

1:27:15

coat of paint on it, but like really

1:27:17

examining what games are now today

1:27:20

and making the combat encounters. Souls

1:27:25

like or, you know, some form

1:27:27

of a or even Prince of Paris of the Lost

1:27:29

Crown, like where any

1:27:31

combat experience could be your death

1:27:34

and any puzzle could be

1:27:36

the end of a run. Because

1:27:39

I think there's there's there's the fundamental pieces

1:27:41

of that in the original game. But gaming

1:27:43

now has progressed to a place where a

1:27:46

lot of gamers are seeking out those challenges.

1:27:49

And I'm very curious if they take this all the

1:27:51

way down to the bones and remake it that way.

1:27:53

Or if it's kind of know we just made

1:27:55

it so the game tells you to push our one when

1:27:59

you're letting go of a legend. I don't know whether or not,

1:28:01

but it's – I was blown away. I mean again, I paid

1:28:03

two bucks for it. But man,

1:28:06

it's still an incredible, incredibly

1:28:08

designed third-person

1:28:10

action game. It's interesting that you

1:28:12

mentioned this game because I picked

1:28:14

up the same game for my

1:28:16

Steam Deck right after Lost Crown because I have

1:28:18

never played it. So I'm about

1:28:20

like two-thirds of the way through the game, and

1:28:23

I'm shocked. So even as a person that

1:28:25

didn't grow up with it, doesn't have the nostalgia, it

1:28:27

still holds up. I

1:28:29

will say I think the combat could use some

1:28:32

updates because it's kind

1:28:34

of the same thing over and over and over and

1:28:36

over again. Attack attack. Jump over attack.

1:28:39

Yes, exactly. And then it just becomes a thing

1:28:41

of, well, there's just too many overwhelming.

1:28:44

I can't even do the thing anymore because there's

1:28:46

just so many guys as opposed to what's

1:28:49

the real skill here. But I'm

1:28:51

loving it. And like I said, I've never played it.

1:28:53

We have – one of

1:28:55

the bumpers on our show is Yuri doing

1:28:58

his They Say Time is Like a River. And

1:29:00

I had never – so I just thought

1:29:02

that was really cool. I fire up this game. That's like

1:29:05

the opening line to the game. I was like, that's so

1:29:07

cool. Like we did the line.

1:29:09

I think he actually says it. They

1:29:11

say time is

1:29:14

like a river. Yes, that's exactly how

1:29:16

it is. Yep, nailed it. I

1:29:21

remember loving Sands of Time back in the day.

1:29:23

And I've been genuinely

1:29:25

excited for this remake. I hope it

1:29:27

happens. I hope it's well done. I

1:29:30

hope it actually materializes. Maybe in a

1:29:32

year where we get two Princes of

1:29:34

Persia coming out,

1:29:36

if both of them sell well

1:29:38

and do well, it'll continue to

1:29:40

incentivize Ubisoft to motivate

1:29:43

this, make it happen. So

1:29:46

that's cool that you guys are both playing it. That's

1:29:48

really a funny coincidence and kind

1:29:52

of throws sand in the

1:29:54

face. I know you should have had too many Princes

1:29:56

of Persia in one year. No, we

1:29:58

need more. No such thing

1:30:01

as too many princes one two Out

1:30:04

there it is Neil before you

1:30:06

I was I was waiting for it

1:30:08

head now Anyway

1:30:11

on that note before we get to my

1:30:13

playlist We're gonna take one more quick break

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what that is okay? That's not what I was

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1:33:20

right, Ah much. So. Last

1:33:22

week. I talked

1:33:24

about how steam. Did. A

1:33:27

deck building, sas. Spotlighting.

1:33:29

All these deck building games while they are

1:33:31

mayor not of deck builders are more into

1:33:33

it. I talked about some of my favorites

1:33:36

from the Deck Building Fast. The.

1:33:38

Very next week's. What

1:33:40

does do? Was.

1:33:43

Turn Based. Best to say

1:33:45

that somebody had seen as

1:33:47

programming Just to me. I

1:33:49

don't understand it, but I

1:33:51

appreciate it. Says thank

1:33:54

you whoever is. Programming.

1:33:56

The fests because it's the as

1:33:59

much by. Not weeks.

1:34:01

Fast is just wife needs more alone time.

1:34:03

fast I think is what had happened to

1:34:05

figure. Out

1:34:07

Okay. Of

1:34:10

course. She's already

1:34:12

gotten that for two weeks in a row. Christian. As

1:34:16

other fest stick it up a lot of. Some

1:34:19

anyway. I. Love

1:34:21

turn based video games as

1:34:23

anybody who listens to the

1:34:25

show knows, so I dove

1:34:27

in with gusto into. A

1:34:30

whole bunch of games and again any time

1:34:32

when of he says happens next fast or

1:34:34

need he says I am. Constantly.

1:34:38

Just flabbergasted. At.

1:34:40

The number of games the her accessory

1:34:42

made on steam. How does anybody make

1:34:44

any money? I don't understand it. A

1:34:47

only eight percent of people are playing games

1:34:49

because you know how our billion games coming

1:34:51

out Anyway, Ah,

1:34:54

There's a bunch of games that's

1:34:56

I played during the turn based

1:34:58

fest I'm going to talk about

1:35:00

to my two favorites. First

1:35:04

his game called die Spoke dice

1:35:06

folk Date: D I C F

1:35:08

O L Caped I spoke This

1:35:10

is a really clever idea or

1:35:13

dice is so prominent in the

1:35:15

name you'd think that Dice had

1:35:17

a. Bigger

1:35:19

part in it. Could. Side note:

1:35:21

I forgot to mention his last week. Thank.

1:35:24

You. The thousands of you

1:35:26

who have send me emails that Slice of

1:35:28

Days is available on I owe us. I.

1:35:32

Was aware of it at the time. I was

1:35:34

talking about how it came out on Android longer

1:35:36

ago and had just and just came out. Came

1:35:38

out on Iowa since the I buy pick it

1:35:41

up on the yes is available and I was.

1:35:43

I think Slice and Dice is one of the

1:35:45

best games I played. In. A long time.

1:35:47

Get. On I owe us but you can stop

1:35:49

emailing. Us I'm aware,

1:35:52

I'm grateful. Thank you. I should have mentioned

1:35:54

it at the time, but I've gotten. Quite.

1:35:56

A lot of those emails they sent a regular the way my the way

1:35:59

I she bought it. right? It's

1:36:01

a good. Amount of know

1:36:03

your son going to come home and go dad and heard

1:36:05

about slice type games. As

1:36:08

as a service and like was

1:36:11

like you mean what if it's

1:36:13

part lemon part last know slice.io

1:36:15

player micro book anyway. Slice.

1:36:18

And dice. I understand, why doesn't the

1:36:20

title very much about dice dice folks?

1:36:23

Has dies in it. But. That's not really

1:36:25

why you come to the yard. It's got dice

1:36:27

it at the dice. In. Dice

1:36:30

folk. Are our specialty dice

1:36:32

they have ceases on them. That

1:36:34

indicates. Attacks or defense

1:36:36

or other things. And yes, they

1:36:38

are rolled every turn. But that's

1:36:40

not what's cool about dice. Fuck,

1:36:42

What's cool about dice folks is

1:36:44

that. You. Don't smoke is

1:36:47

kind of. I'm. It's. Got

1:36:49

some poke human dna in and

1:36:51

or these wants to be Aleppo

1:36:53

months. You're collecting little critters, little

1:36:55

creatures that you are having your

1:36:58

stable and. You. Go

1:37:00

to go to battle with those creatures and you

1:37:02

can cost. You can bring up to three of

1:37:04

them at a time. So

1:37:06

you're fit your three. Critters.

1:37:09

Are facing off against three other

1:37:11

critters. And. You're always

1:37:13

in this triangle formation. Triangle

1:37:17

formation and a triangles is

1:37:19

always pointing. From. Left to

1:37:21

right so there's of the point of a

1:37:23

triangle mean meaning one of your characters is

1:37:25

standing at the point, the other two are

1:37:27

behind it. Pointing. To the right.

1:37:31

To. The character that his arm

1:37:33

on points is called the leader. A

1:37:35

character that's the only character. That.

1:37:37

Can attack. And. Also well

1:37:40

that's not true but it's really care to the

1:37:42

can attack the only character that active at any

1:37:44

given moment. But. Part.

1:37:46

Of what you could do on your

1:37:48

turn his rotate your triangle. Rotate

1:37:51

your triangle. You've got three

1:37:53

little critters. Then. I'll have

1:37:55

varying abilities and varying statistics.

1:37:57

You know the attack and

1:37:59

defense. Magic and and

1:38:01

in cool abilities and so you're

1:38:03

rolling little dice. That. Queue.

1:38:06

Up those attacks. but maybe

1:38:08

your most powerful guy. Is.

1:38:11

In the back and can attack so maybe

1:38:13

where the dice comes up that lets you

1:38:15

rotate your triangle. Ah, to to

1:38:17

get them in the front so that

1:38:19

when you queue up your attack, when

1:38:21

you. Use. Up the attack die

1:38:23

that has wrought with you rolled the law. tax

1:38:26

base came up. The

1:38:28

most powerful person does does that. That's

1:38:31

not even the coolest part. although that

1:38:33

is a pretty cool part. I think

1:38:35

that's a clever mechanics that I've never

1:38:37

seen before was you like rotating your

1:38:39

group so that the front person can

1:38:41

can be active? But. That's not

1:38:43

even of the cleverest aspect of this

1:38:45

game. It. Does something

1:38:47

that don't think I've ever seen before. You

1:38:49

guys are probably correct me that I have

1:38:51

seen it before, but I don't recall ever

1:38:53

seeing this before. You are. Controlling

1:38:56

your team, And

1:38:59

the bad guys. You.

1:39:01

Are controlling the bad guys so you

1:39:03

are for every fight you're in. You

1:39:06

control your team. And v

1:39:08

opposing team. So. Dice are

1:39:10

rolled for your team and the bad

1:39:12

guys and bad guys will have three

1:39:15

dice that of a give them abilities

1:39:17

to do that turn as you have

1:39:19

to use all those days. Before.

1:39:22

The round is over. So.

1:39:25

You're. Deciding when they attack,

1:39:27

who they attack, how they

1:39:29

attack, whether they defend. But.

1:39:32

You have to use all the faces that come

1:39:34

up on those I so even if it's a

1:39:36

really powerful it's I go to our. Which.

1:39:39

Of my guys, I'm going to use that on. For.

1:39:41

Your deciding and you can do it in

1:39:43

any order. You can have your guys do

1:39:46

some stuff, there guys do some stuff vice

1:39:48

versa. Any order. One of my guys in

1:39:50

one of their guys back and forth rotating

1:39:52

your team so you're deciding. Like, who have

1:39:54

your team gets the damage, who have their

1:39:56

team gets the damage, and you're kind of

1:39:59

sorting all that. in real time

1:40:01

rotating their triangle, rotating your

1:40:03

triangle, and sometimes the

1:40:05

dice faces will be like rotate a random direction.

1:40:07

You're like, oh boy, here we go. I don't

1:40:09

know if they're gonna get me

1:40:11

a worse bad guy. It's gonna rotate into a worse

1:40:14

bad guy or an easier one. It's

1:40:16

clever. It's a really clever concept

1:40:18

I've never seen before where you

1:40:20

are in complete control over

1:40:23

both sides of the fight. You just have

1:40:25

to figure out the little puzzle of it

1:40:27

and how to best proc

1:40:30

all of the little dice faces that have

1:40:32

rolled up in what

1:40:34

order in order to make it most beneficial

1:40:36

to you. Really

1:40:39

clever. Really clever game. That's called

1:40:41

Dice Folk. Highly impressed

1:40:43

by it. It's got a cute

1:40:45

art style. Again, it's very Pokemon.

1:40:47

You're moving through this little grid

1:40:50

from place to place, you know, proccing

1:40:52

fight. Very roguelite standard Slay

1:40:54

the Spire style, like moving through

1:40:56

the flowchart, except this one you can

1:40:59

like backtrack and go other ways

1:41:01

and certain of the nodes in that

1:41:03

flowchart will unlock new little Pokemon

1:41:05

type creatures that you can add to

1:41:07

your stable and then level

1:41:09

them up and use them in certain ways. Clever.

1:41:13

Very cool game. Dice Folk. Looks

1:41:15

great. Yeah. The

1:41:17

other game that took me

1:41:20

completely by surprise and I am completely enamored

1:41:22

with this game. I love it. I love it

1:41:25

so very much and I can't

1:41:27

explain why it's taken

1:41:30

me by storm so much. This

1:41:32

game is called Echonomics.

1:41:34

Echonomics, like a

1:41:37

gnome. So

1:41:39

it's E-C-O-G-N-O-M-I-X.

1:41:41

Echonomics. This

1:41:44

is a ostensibly like

1:41:46

a resource management

1:41:48

city builder kind of game.

1:41:52

Very charming art style, I

1:41:54

think. It looks like claymation

1:41:56

to me and you're

1:41:58

controlling a group of gnomes who

1:42:01

delve deep underground and