0:01

BBC Sounds, music, radio,

0:03

podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren

0:05

Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs

0:08

podcast. Every week I ask my guests to

0:10

choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd

0:12

want to take with them if they were

0:14

cast away to a desert island. And

0:17

for rights reasons, the music is shorter

0:19

than the original broadcast. I hope you

0:21

enjoy listening. My

0:44

castaway this week is Shirley Ballas,

0:46

the head judge on the BBC's

0:48

Saturday Night Entertainment show Strictly Come

0:51

Dancing. As a former

0:53

champion dancer herself, she knows all

0:55

about the hard graft it takes

0:57

to make ballroom look effortless. By

0:59

21, she'd won nearly every major

1:01

title she competed in. Three years

1:04

later, she ranked world number one.

1:06

She remains the only woman in

1:08

history to win the British Open

1:10

to the World Professional Latin Championships

1:12

with two different partners and her

1:14

dancing career lasted over two

1:16

decades. She was born in

1:18

Wallacy on the Wirral Peninsula and discovered ballroom

1:20

when she chanced upon a class at her

1:22

local church hall at just seven years old.

1:25

It was a cha-cha-cha that opened what

1:27

she calls a magic door. Her

1:30

mother, who was raising her alone, was the

1:32

one who helped make the magic happen, working

1:35

in a bar, waiting on tables and driving

1:37

a forklift truck to help her daughter achieve

1:39

her dreams. In 2017, she

1:41

bagged one of the biggest jobs in

1:44

British television and has been

1:46

dispensing encouragement, constructive criticism and

1:48

the occasional well-earned ten ever

1:50

since. She says, myself

2:00

in that I wanted to do more than anything

2:02

else in my life. Shirley Ballis,

2:04

welcome to Dessa Island Discs. I'm so delighted

2:06

to be here. This is just such an

2:08

honour and I'm so moved by listening to

2:11

your beautiful words. Thank you for that. It's

2:13

your story and we're delighted to tell it

2:15

and to talk to you about it today.

2:18

As we're speaking, we're approaching the Strictly Final

2:20

and for the dancers, this is obviously an

2:22

incredibly nerve wracking time. How does

2:24

the experience of having been judged as

2:26

a pro yourself feed into how you

2:28

approach your job on Strictly? Different

2:31

lessons throughout my life have made me feel

2:33

that when I'm adjudicating, I want

2:35

to be fair without fear or favour

2:38

and I want to mark exactly what's in

2:40

front of my eyes and appreciate the week's

2:42

work that they have put into their work.

2:44

I think that you can have constructive criticism

2:46

at the same time and be honest, but

2:49

you can do it in a way where

2:51

you're building people rather than destroying

2:53

people. So, Shirley,

2:55

what's the first disc that you're taking to

2:57

the island today? Well, I thought it would

2:59

be quite nice to do Get Lucky by

3:01

Daft Punk, which was my first samba on

3:03

Strictly Come Dancing in 2017 and

3:07

it will hold some of the most dear memories

3:09

with the cast that I danced with. It was

3:11

amazing. So this was when you

3:13

first joined the show and the executive producer

3:15

wanted to introduce you to the viewers. So

3:17

she got you to perform a routine before

3:20

you sat down behind the judge's desk. It

3:22

had been a while since you'd done anything like that.

3:24

What do you remember about that night? I

3:27

remember her saying to me, I think we're going to have

3:29

to put you in a Latin dress, Shirley, and a pair

3:31

of high heels and you're going to have to get there

3:33

and do the samba to Get Lucky.

3:35

And I just looked at her and said, I haven't had

3:37

a pair of shoes on since 1995,

3:41

you know, so I don't even know if I can

3:43

still balance in them. She said, you just got to

3:45

trust me. So I did. I walked around in the

3:47

high heels, hardest thing I ever did in a beautiful

3:49

red dress that wardrobe had made for me. I was

3:51

very, very nervous and I remember aspiring and

3:53

it was running down my back and my

3:56

knees were shaking. But somehow the minute the

3:58

lights go on. Again

4:00

program was between

5:00

having for

6:00

the small things like when I got a pair of

6:02

dance shoes for example I was holding onto those shoes

6:04

I mean they were in my bag I never lost

6:07

a shoe I never lost a little skirt or a

6:09

top because I knew my mum worked so

6:11

hard to get those things and obviously David

6:13

was your big brother did he step in to kind of keep

6:15

an eye on you to look out for you a bit? Oh

6:18

he was a rock and we lived on a

6:20

housing estate that could be rough at times he

6:22

never let me hang round street corners because with my

6:25

mum being at work and if I had a night

6:27

off I wanted to kind of hang but I'd see

6:29

him across the field and I'd spot him

6:31

and I'd leg it home and he'd leg it

6:33

after me and he looked at me from the

6:36

age of about 12 and 13

6:38

he'd say to me you are going to be a

6:40

dancer and you're going to make us all proud. So

6:43

as a kid you and David both qualified for

6:45

free school meals not just in term time but

6:47

in the holidays as well which must have been

6:49

a relief for your mum how did

6:51

you feel about it? I

6:54

loved the school free dinners I

6:56

knew exactly where to queue up in the queue

6:59

and it was normally towards the end and they

7:01

were trying to get rid of the food so

7:03

you got an extra roast potato a little extra

7:05

veg but my brother was the opposite he was

7:07

embarrassed because as we come out the school gates

7:09

the kids would be shouting you're on welfare you

7:11

haven't got a dad and then I

7:13

would say well you've got a cheese putty and I've

7:15

had a really nice roast dinner so I was always

7:17

the cup was half full for me. And

7:20

I wonder about that sense of resilience where

7:22

did that come from and you do you

7:24

think? I think it came from again my

7:26

mother and I think that each bullet that

7:28

penetrated I put up this really steel vest

7:30

where the bullet couldn't penetrate hence in

7:33

2017 when I got on

7:35

the show I was told you need to let those

7:37

walls down so the general public can really see you

7:39

for who you really are and that was it took

7:41

me a year or two you know

7:44

to take everything that the job came with. Well I

7:46

want to hear more about that Shirley after your second

7:48

disc if you wouldn't mind. Number two what are we

7:50

going to hear next? How

10:00

hard did you have to work? Well,

10:02

at the beginning, it was just on

10:04

a Saturday children's classes. And then when

10:06

I got my first boy partner, it

10:08

became Friday, Saturday and Sunday. And

10:10

then it was five nights a week. So

10:13

what's the personal cost of that then? Well,

10:15

of course, at that time I didn't realize.

10:17

I mean, I never went out, never socialized,

10:19

didn't stay at people's houses, didn't do anything

10:21

like that. Once I was serious

10:23

into dancing, my mind was set. I

10:26

just had to do it. So talk me through

10:28

the journey then as a young dancer. One of

10:30

your first partners was a boy called David. You

10:32

were going to dance with him in a studio

10:34

on the other side of the Mersey. So how

10:36

long did it take you to get there? You

10:38

would have been about 12 at that point. He

10:40

finished school about four o'clock and by five o'clock

10:42

I needed to have my little suitcase with my

10:44

makeup in. I needed to be at that bus

10:46

stop on the Liso housing estate. And

10:48

from there I would get the bus to

10:51

Liso station. From Liso station, I'd

10:53

get the train to Liverpool Central, get off

10:55

there and run across to the Ribble bus

10:57

station back in the day because they weren't

10:59

close. Get on a Ribble bus all the way

11:01

to the hour to Crosby. It was

11:03

actually quite easy when it was late, but

11:06

coming home at 11 o'clock at night was

11:09

very, very scary indeed. It was very, very

11:11

difficult to travel alone. I was often trying

11:13

to find somebody who'd give me a lift

11:15

or a ride to different competitions or a

11:17

ride home, which stood me in good

11:19

stead when I was older because I can

11:22

get anywhere now on any

11:24

kind of transport. At least you

11:26

don't have to run anymore, Shirley. I don't

11:28

have to run anymore. Not quite such an everything experience.

11:31

I think we'll have some more music now if you don't

11:33

mind your third disc today. What are we going to hear

11:35

next? My next track is Moon

11:37

River by Frank Sinatra, which

11:40

was the first waltz that I ever did

11:42

in the church hall. And also it was

11:44

the dedication dance that they did for Len

11:47

Goodman on Dancing with the Stars a few

11:49

months ago. He was one of my teachers

11:51

back in the day. I knew

11:53

him before my son was born. So what was so

11:55

ironic, he'd come round to dinner when Mark was just

11:57

a little baby two or three years of age. And

11:59

then he

14:00

was doing the ironing and he was mortified and

14:02

beside himself anyway it was that night that we

14:04

split. What do you remember about the tryout? I

14:06

was only in there about 10 minutes and Fermi

14:08

Stockford said to me well I don't know who

14:10

you are never heard of you Shirley Rich he

14:12

said but you feel like a Rolls Royce packie

14:14

bag should come in with me and that was

14:16

it I moved back to Manchester. That's a really

14:18

good line isn't it? At 17 and

14:21

there was only one ruler in our

14:24

partnership and that was through me so for many

14:26

many years I didn't have a voice I didn't

14:29

have a voice because I wouldn't have known what I

14:31

was talking about to be perfectly honest to Fermi so

14:33

he picked the costumes he picked the events he was

14:35

the one who picked all the teachers for the private

14:37

lessons and he was the one who moulded me to

14:39

be the way he wanted me to be and

14:42

it was Nina really who suggested back in the

14:44

day that you've got Fermi

14:46

Stockford and Shirley Rich it would sound better

14:48

as Fermi and Shirley Stockford a non-stop Stockford

14:50

and I said to her you

14:53

really think that we should get married and she

14:55

said yes and hence that's where it was born

14:57

because Fermi and I to be fair to Fermi

14:59

and I we never dated everything was always about

15:02

dance dance dance dance dance so thank

15:04

you to Fermi for the start but from there

15:06

I was able to run with my own career.

15:08

Did you ever regret that you didn't marry for

15:10

love? Well at the time I

15:12

thought it was love and I was so in

15:14

love with dancing but from 17 you

15:16

start to grow up don't you? We

15:19

just went different ways you know I started to

15:21

grow and learn about what I wanted to be

15:23

as a female in my own skin

15:26

really. Well I can't wait

15:28

to hear about that Shirley but after your fourth

15:30

disc if you wouldn't mind what's your fourth choice

15:32

today and why are you taking it to the

15:34

island? Sherry The Four Seasons was

15:36

a Broadway show that my son got cast in

15:38

in 2016 where Frankie Valley

15:41

picked him to play Frankie Valley and this

15:43

was the first song that Mark played to

15:46

me on the guitar before he went on

15:48

to Broadway and I think I saw the

15:50

show over 40 times and

15:52

never got tired of that show and listening

15:54

to Mark sing in those very very high

15:57

notes which he hit tremendously well. and

16:01

you can hear me oh

16:06

darling Sherry

16:33

the Four Seasons for your son Mark

16:35

Shirley Ballas so listen Shirley,

16:37

you and Sammy, the non-stop stopfords

16:40

appropriately named because you went from strength

16:42

to strength at great speed in

16:45

1983 you won the British Open to the

16:47

World Professional Latin Championships you were ranked number

16:49

one in the world the following year how

16:52

did getting the success that you'd always dreamed of

16:54

feel? it

16:56

was quite a journey to get there and at 22

16:58

holding that trophy in 1983 was just an ecstatic

17:02

moment in my life I thought this

17:04

is what it's all about but as

17:06

I stood there with that trophy I

17:09

was empty there was something in

17:11

my life that was missing and I didn't know

17:13

what it was and back then you didn't have

17:15

all the counselling or anything like that so

17:18

I found myself sort of spiring a little

17:20

bit in my own mind feeling down a

17:22

lot started to complain a little bit more

17:24

with Sammy but didn't really know what I

17:27

was complaining about but there was something missing in my

17:29

life and I just had to figure out what it

17:31

was so there was a bit of a mismatch between

17:33

what you'd imagined it would feel like and

17:36

the reality and I wonder if that

17:38

thing that was missing was passion because

17:40

that arrived pretty quickly after that it

17:42

did you know like I say I cared

17:44

about Sammy a lot we kind of grown up together

17:46

to be these top professionals but I

17:49

think that I missed fun going

17:51

out having a holiday meals out

17:53

laughter even though I had a

17:55

solid partner one that would never cheat on

17:57

me one that would be there for me.

18:00

He was that kind of character but something

18:02

in the passion department was definitely missing. And

18:04

then hence I met Corky Ballas at

18:07

a function in Canada. He's an amateur dancer

18:09

from Texas at that point and you left

18:11

Sammy, moved to Houston to be with Corky.

18:13

Part of the attraction to Corky was this

18:16

very welcoming family that he had as well

18:18

who really took you under their wing. Well

18:20

a mum and a dad and five siblings

18:22

and his father invented the weed eater, that's

18:24

the strimmer that cuts the weeds from around

18:27

the trees. They were an affluent

18:29

family really really well off and

18:31

Corky had this charm and

18:33

it was difficult at first. He was a

18:35

chef, he worked in his father's hotel but

18:38

I thought to myself Sammy

18:40

trained me, perhaps I could do it the

18:43

same for Corky exactly like we see on

18:45

our Strictly Come Dancing and

18:47

that's what I did. I trained Corky from

18:49

scratch, very difficult road, we started out rock

18:51

bottom. People were laughing at me you know,

18:54

she's left our country Great Britain, she's dancing

18:56

with a boy that's got two left feet

18:58

basically and they were really mean to

19:00

Corky. He taught me again to be

19:02

more resilient and bulletproof and

19:05

from there it went from strength to strength.

19:07

We became 10 times United States Latin American

19:09

champion, of course in the midst of

19:11

all that we had our baby son Mark. Yes

19:13

you were back to work competing just six weeks

19:15

after having Mark. What did your dance teachers say

19:17

to you when you went back? He said to

19:19

me you know we don't want to see your

19:22

stretch marks, I hate it that your skin is

19:24

wobbling and you actually make people feel physically sick,

19:26

you need to sort yourself out. So then you

19:28

go on these extreme diets so I found that

19:30

to be extremely difficult. Until you were on those

19:32

extreme diets. I was all, I was a yo-yo

19:35

dieter but it was down, when I look back

19:37

now it was down to the negative criticism our

19:39

industry was built on, you had to be the

19:41

right shape. I remember walking onto the floor with

19:43

Corky once hoping to make the United States final,

19:46

I could hear these people sniggering behind me saying

19:48

look at the size of her bottom, it's twice

19:50

the size of her partner, I'm just about to

19:52

go on to fight for a place in the

19:55

final and I could hear these remarks behind me.

19:57

What does that do to you psychologically? Well for

19:59

me The I think I compartmentalised and

20:01

it was only years later that I

20:03

dealt with it After I finish competing

20:05

through counseling, Kooky could also be very

20:08

straight to in while you were pregnant.

20:10

He took matters into his own hands.

20:12

Put it, he actually did. I saw

20:14

pregnancy at the time. Young, twenty four,

20:16

twenty five years of age. As

20:18

let me eat every. Sued the I

20:20

have secretly desired to out my life I'm

20:23

one of those was Shipley Stone. it's which

20:25

you could buy and a boxer twelve with

20:27

a carton of milk and I would just

20:29

gorge. And then the with this particular day

20:31

that cookie took all the chocolate icing off

20:33

and three roaches back in Houston they're everywhere

20:35

and he got this dead wrote can put

20:38

it in in my don't know and put

20:40

the two cats icing on the coast. When

20:42

I picked it up to eat it I

20:44

had the legs candid dangling from my mouth

20:46

and from that day to this us every

20:48

another don't I mean. Company had tipped

20:50

to be say to him. He said to me

20:53

at the time it's a joke and probably I

20:55

had a good laugh and it did do the

20:57

trick says thank you Corky for keeping me on

20:59

the in the control path for looking back Shelley

21:01

Mineral people if you to use the word controller

21:04

A people he would say that control in in

21:06

in another way. I mean how do you look

21:08

back at it Now He knew that when I

21:10

was overweight, how miserable I was that I was

21:13

getting a sex to critique. So I think when

21:15

I look back on it now I see a

21:17

person that didn't know how to stop me eating

21:19

all as. Donuts and that was his waste of

21:21

thing me so that I wouldn't be miserable said

21:23

the down the line. It's

21:26

time for this number size. What's next? Smells

21:28

like Teen Spirit by know thought that I

21:30

didn't like the song that says but mom

21:32

would often take me to his bedroom strung

21:35

and on his guitar. You know this is

21:37

a way to go months mrs in of

21:39

on it and then several years of it

21:41

is the only couldn't physically. Possible Blink.

21:45

Is a great product. Okay. Mohan

22:16

I'm I'm Mark like Easter egg.

22:19

Shell Ebola. He moved back to London

22:21

with cocaine in Nineteen Eighty Six. He

22:23

became British Champions for the second year

22:25

running and after that you decided to

22:28

retire at the top know you deceived

22:30

everything you dreamed of. In Booms, But.

22:32

Some of the years that followed

22:34

were extremely to see you, especially

22:36

in two thousand and three that

22:38

your you experienced it. devastating loss,

22:40

the death of your brother David.

22:42

What happened. This. Particular day Mark

22:45

got a part to sing and one at

22:47

the Westminster Church and I call my mom.

22:49

She was taken care of my brother because

22:51

he was unwell that with the extent of

22:53

what I knew he was on wealth. Looking

22:55

back he was depressed but he was depressed

22:57

a you know he will. He was a

22:59

feeling like he could get up in the

23:01

morning. We didn't know anything about mental health

23:03

back then and this particular day I invited

23:05

my mom and my brother to come down

23:07

to London and my brother urged my mother

23:09

to go. Perhaps you

23:11

should never have gone? well. In fact, he should

23:14

never have com and I shouldn't been the one

23:16

that was pushing for them to go. And then

23:18

it was that night that to a picked up

23:20

his milk in the morning and stopped his refrigerator.

23:22

and then something went drastically wrong in that short

23:24

period of time to where he took his own

23:27

nice in the home that we lived in. David

23:29

didn't leave a letter so y'all surmising. Did

23:32

we see the signs and will? What were

23:34

the signs? Now that I'm more into man's

23:36

mental health and I work a lot for

23:38

com campaign against live in miserably, I know

23:41

the signs now more or less, but back

23:43

then I didn't really know too much about

23:45

it and I went through years and years

23:48

and years of blame and still to the

23:50

sale be as anniversary on the cyst as

23:52

December. That's why they've never really celebrated Christmas.

23:54

you know he was my cheerleader and I

23:57

miss that we spoke every day at four

23:59

o'clock. I always said if anything happens to

24:01

me will you take care of my boy and if anything

24:03

happens to you I'll take care of Mary, his daughter and

24:06

I followed up on my end of the

24:08

bargain. I took in his little

24:10

girl because she then lost a mother who found David,

24:12

it was her mother who found David, she died of

24:14

alcoholism so Mary was left without her mum and her

24:17

dad. I mean it must have

24:19

been extraordinarily difficult for you Shirley because

24:21

you know as you say subsequently you

24:23

took in his daughter, you're supporting your

24:25

mum who's going through the most awful

24:27

grief. How did you cope with your

24:30

own grief and how do you cope with it?

24:32

I mean as we're talking it's coming up to

24:34

the 20th anniversary. I wonder sometimes

24:36

if I have ever really dealt with the

24:38

grief because I exactly what

24:41

you just said I have to be strong for

24:43

Mary and she's done me proud and then of

24:45

course every day on a daily basis with my

24:47

mother you know there's photographs of him, we have

24:49

his urn, we talk about him

24:51

on a regular basis and I see her little face

24:54

and I you know and I've got a son of my own

24:56

and it's just difficult

25:00

and it never goes away and I

25:02

wonder sometimes if I've truly grieved. Shirley

25:05

obviously understandably Christmas has always been

25:07

a very difficult time for

25:09

you and your mum for many years because

25:11

of David's anniversary but I think that you

25:14

have said working on Strictly has helped to

25:16

shift things a little bit for you. Because

25:19

of this job I did pantomime and I met

25:22

Danny Taylor and then he became my boyfriend in

25:24

2018 and I remember him coming

25:26

round at Christmas and saying oh

25:28

boy you don't have a tree up and then he went

25:31

out he bought us a little tree with lights. It was

25:33

just a tiny little thing that we felt obliged because we'd

25:35

just met him to put on the

25:37

tv and I think that was the start and

25:39

then from there because of just

25:42

such the Christmas spirit in Strictly I think it's

25:44

uplifting and I think you know even this Christmas

25:46

I'm not going to lie my mum was like

25:48

do we really need to put up Christmas trimmings

25:50

every year she says that to me do we really need

25:52

to put them up and and I go yes we're going

25:54

to put a tree up we're going to have some lights

25:56

we're going to have some joy and we're going to have

25:58

David we'll do all the work. things and set

26:00

the table for him as well. We're

26:03

best placed for David, he's very much part of the

26:05

memory but I don't think I can ever move on

26:07

from that tragedy. Let's have

26:09

some more music Shirley Bonner, see you next track. Well

26:12

this is probably going to be the hardest track

26:14

and I think even now I'm going to get

26:16

emotional even just saying it. It's You To Me

26:18

Or Everything by The Real Thing and

26:21

it was my brother's focus and

26:23

he used to have me samba all around the living room

26:25

while we'd have the song on and it

26:27

was the last track that he cut for

26:29

me on a CD before he died and

26:31

I'm going to have a moment while you

26:33

play this. The

27:06

Real Thing and You To Me Or Everything

27:09

Shirley, your brother got to

27:11

see you achieve so many of your dreams but

27:14

there was one in 2017 that

27:16

you said has been particularly important in

27:18

your career so he didn't get to

27:20

see you become head judge on Strictly

27:22

Come Down Soon. I know

27:24

that you've said that job saved you. Why?

27:26

What was happening? I think at the time

27:28

I was going through immense bullying in

27:30

the industry from men at the top, I'll just

27:33

go as far as that and they were stopping my

27:35

work. You know I was like an elitist teacher, I

27:37

was teaching the top couples in the world and

27:39

then there were threats going to certain couples saying there's

27:41

nine of us and one of her. If you train

27:44

with her we're going to make sure you don't make

27:46

it in the industry, men and women. Stopping

27:48

me judging in certain, I had a job

27:50

once overseas for £100 and they had a

27:53

phone call or a letter that said if

27:55

you employ her we'll make sure that you

27:57

lose your license. So there was an awful

27:59

lot of things like that. going on like

28:02

that for no particular reason. Another ban, they

28:04

didn't want a woman in

28:06

any high places and that's how I feel

28:08

and that's my perspective on it. So

28:10

there was misogyny? Yes, for sure, 100%

28:13

for sure and I don't think it's

28:15

much better today. I still think

28:17

that bullying goes on. There's a lot of

28:19

great people in my industry, there's a lot

28:21

of people who want to see people do

28:23

extremely well and I think we have this

28:26

handful of like you say misogynistic people with

28:29

egos that just

28:31

will not deflate even

28:33

the other day. I was reading messages

28:35

of a couple that had been to

28:37

a competition overseas of different professionals that

28:39

had written these most horrendous messages to

28:41

them. It still goes on today. I

28:44

don't know how people get away with

28:46

it until it becomes name and shame

28:48

and I'm pretty much close to doing that I'll

28:50

tell you. So are there people I mean

28:52

were you able to talk to anyone about

28:54

this? Is there a movement against it in

28:56

the dance world? Well when I spoke I

28:58

did speak to some people which will remain

29:00

nameless and they would say to me you

29:02

know Shirley you loved in the industry, you're

29:04

a strong character, you'll be just fine. Nobody

29:06

really took me serious, nobody really listened and

29:09

I was going to take up yoga. My mum had

29:11

said you know work ethic Shirley, you don't need borum

29:13

dancing. If they don't want you in the industry you

29:15

can take up another group. Fortunate

29:17

something aligned and I got the job

29:19

on strictly. So thank you very much to

29:21

all the bullies in my industry and you

29:23

know who you are and everybody in my

29:25

industry knows who they are. Thank

29:27

you because you gave me a platform and

29:29

a job that I sincerely love and adore.

29:33

It's time for disc number seven. What

29:35

do we want to hear? Disc number seven

29:37

is Highs and Lows and it's written

29:40

by the band Alexander Jean. Alexander

29:42

Jean is my daughter-in-law BC Jean

29:44

and my son Mark Ballas. I

29:47

actually think the lyrics resonate

29:49

with anybody who has a loved

29:51

one, boyfriend, girlfriend, partner,

29:54

married. If you really listen

29:56

to the lyrics I

29:58

think it will resonate with many

30:00

many women maybe even gentlemen too Alexander

30:35

Jean and highs and lows Shirley

30:38

your mum's been with you every step of the

30:40

way I wonder what she thinks of your performances

30:42

today she must be an avid strictly viewer I'm

30:44

assuming well she sits there

30:46

in her little arm chair watching the

30:48

show and when I get home on

30:51

a Saturday evening at 12 o'clock midnight

30:53

she sat there with her arms

30:55

folded looking at me now I

30:58

thought so and so and so and so

31:00

and you marked so and so and so

31:02

explain to me so I can understand so

31:04

what what I say to the listener is

31:06

when you're watching the program you might see

31:08

from the waist upwards or overhead shots when

31:10

I'm in the studio I can see all

31:13

the feet you might not be privy

31:15

to the feet so we are watching

31:17

different things do you understand what I'm saying yeah

31:19

you're when I saw that that's all the full

31:21

view the full view and you get all sparkle

31:23

and the beautiful bits and I have to sometimes

31:26

watch a heel lead that is unacceptable but I

31:28

have to get up and show my mother well

31:31

I saw this and I saw that it goes

31:33

well okay then I guess you know best fine

31:35

surely we talked a lot

31:39

about resilience today and you're definitely gonna need

31:41

that quality because you'll be on your desert

31:44

island soon living life as a castaway I

31:46

wonder how you'll adapt I think I

31:48

would be very good actually I

31:50

will have my memories and I can just cherish

31:52

them maybe that for me

31:55

would just be enough time

31:57

for one more track before you go Shirley ballast your

32:00

last choice today? Last choice is we've

32:02

only just begun from the carpenters and

32:05

it was a song I loved all my life

32:07

but when I gave birth to Mark in the

32:09

hospital it came on it

32:11

was just like 30 minutes after he was born

32:14

and any time that he hears it

32:16

in the supermarket at 37 years of

32:18

age he also starts crying and

32:21

he chose that song when he got married

32:23

for the mother and son dance We've

32:25

Only Just Begun will always be

32:28

mine and my little boy's song The

32:58

carpenters we've only just begun so Shirley Ballast

33:00

it's time I'm going to send you away

33:02

to the desert island I'm giving you the

33:04

Bible and you can take one other book

33:08

of your choosing what would you like? I

33:11

think I'd probably have to take Unleash

33:13

the Power Within by Tony Robbins because

33:16

it's a book that is a helps with resilience

33:18

you know that double pat on the shoulder that

33:20

you can do anything you set your mind to.

33:22

You can also have a luxury item show. Well

33:24

if I was on this desert island and lots

33:26

of sand I don't really like the feeling of

33:28

sand so it would have to be a great

33:30

big pair of knickers cotton knickers

33:33

that go all the way up past

33:35

my tummy button so I didn't get

33:37

any sand in areas that was rather

33:39

irritating. Understood okay so it's big girl

33:41

time. Yes for sure. They're

33:43

yours and finally Shirley which track of

33:45

the eight would you rush to save

33:47

from the waves if you had to?

33:49

I would rush to save from the

33:51

waves highs and lows by Alexander Jean

33:53

because my son has been there at

33:56

the highest point in my life and he's been there

33:58

in the lowest points of my life And

34:00

Shirley, he's now made you a

34:03

grandma, which is fantastic. A glamour?

34:05

A glamour, grandma, call me granny.

34:08

I don't mind. Beautiful baby boy.

34:11

Will you teach the baby to dance when he's old enough? I

34:13

might sneak in a cha-cha-cha lesson if I'm

34:15

babysitting in when he's a little old. Quite

34:18

right to. Shirley Ballas, thank you

34:20

very much for letting us hear your desert island

34:22

discs. Thank you very much. Hello.

34:46

I hope you enjoyed my conversation

34:48

with Shirley. I think those big

34:50

girl knickers should do the trick.

34:52

We've cast away many people from

34:54

the dance world, including Shirley's friend

34:56

and teacher, Len Goodman. Also former

34:58

Strictly Judge Oti Mabusi and the

35:00

choreographers Akram Khan and Wayne McGregor.

35:02

You can find their episodes in

35:04

our Desert Island Discs program archive

35:06

and through BBC Sounds. The

35:08

studio manager for today's program was

35:11

Emma Hart. The assistant producer was

35:13

Christine Pavlovski and the producer was

35:15

Paula McGinley. The series editor

35:17

is John Goudie. Last time,

35:19

my guest will be the actor and

35:21

director Greta Gerwig. I do hope you'll

35:23

join us. If

35:37

anyone is an artist in their

35:39

foods during Mitchell, there are some

35:41

artists that change music forever. The

35:43

mastery of the guitar, the mastery

35:45

of voice, the mastery of language

35:47

that shaped the musical landscape for

35:49

everyone who comes after. podcast

36:00

and BBC Radio that

36:02

explores the extraordinary lives of musical pioneers.

36:05

I think people would like me to

36:07

just be introverted and bleed for them

36:09

forever. Legend, the Joni Mitchell

36:11

story with me Jessica Hoop.

36:13

Listen now on BBC Sounds.