0:01

Bbc Sounds Music Radio

0:04

podcasts, Hello, I'm Lauren the

0:06

Van and this is the Desert Island

0:08

Discs podcast. Every week I asked my

0:10

guess to choose the eight tracks book

0:12

and luxury they want to take with

0:14

them if they were castaway to a

0:16

Desert Island. and for rights reasons the

0:18

music is shorter than the original broadcast.

0:21

I hope you enjoy listening. My.

0:44

Castaway this week is Sunday Power.

0:46

She's one of the most celebrated

0:48

costume designers in the film business,

0:50

with three Academy Awards to her

0:52

name. her looks bring stories to

0:54

life. She created Shakespeare in Love,

0:56

sumptuous realism, Gangs of New York's

0:58

Murderous Dandies and brought Mary Poppins

1:00

into a New century. She grew

1:03

up in South London, where her

1:05

father entertained her with tales of

1:07

the characters who frequented the casino

1:09

where he worked and her mother

1:11

taught her to so. She's.

1:13

Dressed everyone from Leonardo Dicaprio, to

1:15

Judi Dench and work closely with

1:17

some of modern Cinema greatest Ortez,

1:19

Derek Jarman, Todd Haynes, and Martin

1:21

Scorsese have all trusted her to

1:23

articulate their visions. On project after

1:25

project, she says eighty percent of

1:27

the job is psychology and only

1:30

about twenty percent art. You have

1:32

to figure out how to make

1:34

people feel safe because dressing them

1:36

is a very intimate act. They

1:38

have to feel that in your

1:40

hands. They will find their character.

1:42

Sunday Power! Welcome to Desert Island Discs! Thank

1:45

you! How do you make act as feel

1:47

comfortable and safe in the fitting room? Because

1:49

that's where all happens for you. A it

1:51

absolutely does. All happened in the future and

1:53

that is where the design takes place on.

1:55

You have to make them believe that you're

1:57

there to help them find their carrot. Your.

2:00

not there to force them into wearing

2:02

uncomfortable clothes or things they don't want to

2:04

wear. So how

2:06

did you come up with a look for Daniel Day

2:08

Lewis's character, Bill the Butcher, in Gangs of New York?

2:11

What happened with him was I started

2:13

with a meeting with Martin Scorsese and

2:16

he said he saw Bill the Butcher as a

2:18

dandy. I mean he was the villain of the

2:20

piece and he's a butcher and a

2:23

gangster but he was

2:25

a dandy. He

2:27

sort of showed off his wealth in his clothing. I

2:30

then met Daniel Day Lewis in

2:32

Ireland a little bit later and had never

2:34

met him before and I was a little

2:36

bit nervous about meeting him and

2:39

talked to him about how he thought his

2:41

character and it was completely opposite. It was

2:43

like oh and I think he should be

2:45

greasy and dirty and down and grimy and

2:47

it was like hmm that's not what Mr

2:49

Scorsese thinks but anyway let's try, let's try

2:51

both options. And so what happened was I

2:54

went away and then we created

2:56

prototypes along the lines of what

2:59

Marty was asking for and then in our

3:01

first fitting put the sample

3:03

shapes on him and

3:06

he was sold. I mean he said okay this is

3:08

it. I understand where you're coming from. And so for

3:10

Bill the Butcher what was the silhouette? The

3:12

silhouette was I exaggerated

3:15

his own silhouette in a way. I wanted

3:17

to make him really long and

3:20

lean and so his

3:22

trouser shape was long

3:24

skinny leg trousers which was kind of right for

3:26

the period which was around 1840, 1850. It

3:29

was sort of right for a 19th century gentleman at

3:31

the time and then made his

3:33

top hat a little bit higher than everybody

3:35

else's. It was just sort of exaggerating the

3:38

silhouette. I mean he's a bit of a

3:40

caricature. Well let's dive in. This

3:42

number one, what are we going to hear and why have

3:44

you chosen it? This

3:46

is Jeepster by T-Rex which was the first

3:49

album I ever bought. I'd saved up my

3:51

pocket money in 1971 when I was 11. I

3:55

mean I think it was the cute

3:57

man in ladies clothes in

3:59

ladies. blouses and a scarf and he

4:01

wore those little shoes, those little character shoes

4:03

from Anello and David with a heel. I

4:05

mean they were about, I've got like

4:07

four or five pounds in my head and it was

4:09

something I could afford myself and

4:11

they came in every different colour and so yeah

4:14

I dressed like Marple and then I lift up.

4:33

Sea

4:47

Rex and Jeepster. So Sandy Powell, you're

4:49

born in South London in 1960. You're

4:51

a keen cinema

4:53

goer in your teens I think as well as

4:56

a music fan. What was the first film that

4:58

made a big impression on you? I remember being

5:00

taken to see Cabaret by my mum and I

5:02

know I was underage. I mean

5:04

one of the best memories from that was when

5:07

Liza Minnell is on a train station and she's walking away

5:09

from where I call York and she waves and

5:12

the green nail polish really stuck with me.

5:15

A little bit later on when I was 13 or 14 in 73

5:18

or 74 I went to see Death in Venice. Myself

5:22

and my friend Gillian Roth who I was at

5:24

school with, funked off school about seven times to

5:26

see that over and over and over again. It

5:29

was just the most gorgeous thing I'd ever seen and

5:32

it was the costumes. Dirk Burgard

5:34

sitting on the beach at the

5:36

Lido in white with

5:38

his hair dye running down his face.

5:41

Your parents Sydney Morin loved the cinema and

5:43

the theatre too and I think your dad

5:45

had quite an unusual way of getting into

5:47

the pictures without peeing. He

5:50

told myself and my sister Roz that

5:52

as a kid, he was a kid

5:54

really from a poor family brought up

5:57

in Battersea and he used to

5:59

love going to the beach. the cinema but had no

6:01

money and he used he told us that

6:03

what he would do is when

6:06

everybody was coming out of the cinema he

6:08

would walk him backwards so

6:10

that he wouldn't be noticed he'd walk him

6:12

backwards so he's facing the wrong way and

6:14

that was in the days when the cinema

6:16

performances were continuous you know one would stop

6:18

and another one would start so he'd probably

6:20

you know go in and then run around

6:22

and let his mates in through a side

6:24

door I mean it was hilarious. He

6:27

sounds like great fun your dad quite a character

6:30

what did you learn from him what was he like? What

6:33

did I learn from my dad I guess a

6:35

sense of humour he had a sense of

6:37

humour he could laugh about everything

6:39

actually he was

6:41

a creepier at the Playboy Club originally and

6:43

then he moved to Charlie Chester's casino in

6:46

Archer Street through the 70s

6:48

where he was a manager and that's where you know

6:51

he had many a tale to tell of you

6:53

know Francis Bacon used to come in because

6:56

his boyfriend worked the door he'd

6:58

tell stories of actors who would

7:00

come in during in full costume

7:03

during the interval because the stage door would be

7:05

you know adjacent adjacent to it

7:07

and come in and then stage managers

7:09

dragging them back out again yeah it

7:13

was fascinating. Sandy it's time for

7:15

disc number two what's coming up next? This

7:18

is Marla's fifth symphony which

7:21

is a significant part of Death

7:23

in Venice it brings back

7:25

those days of punking off school and

7:27

going to see Death in Venice and the

7:29

beauty of it all. The

8:31

Adagietto from Mahler's Fifth Symphony performed by

8:34

the Orchestra of the Academy of St.

8:36

Cecilia conducted by Franco Menino from the

8:38

soundtrack to the film Death in Venice.

8:40

Sandy Powell, your mother Maureen was a

8:43

secretary. You dedicated your BAFTA Fellowship Award

8:45

to her and to mothers everywhere. How

8:47

did she inspire you? I

8:50

guess she was just always encouraging. She

8:53

was a person that sort of made me

8:55

believe that I could do whatever I wanted. And she

8:57

was the one who taught you to solo, I think.

8:59

Yeah, she did. My mum used to make our clothes

9:01

when we were kids for years. So

9:03

I was just used to that. I was used to seeing her. So

9:05

I was also used to shopping with

9:07

her for the fabric and the patterns. And I

9:10

used to really enjoy that, looking through the pattern

9:12

books, the simplicity and butturette pattern books and choosing

9:14

a pattern and then helping choose. I mean, I'm

9:16

saying I helped to choose the fabrics. I don't know whether I

9:18

did, but I used to enjoy that. And then

9:20

I really wanted to learn how to do it myself. I

9:23

started by making dolls clothes.

9:26

And I also did attempt to make clothes for

9:28

myself very young. Apparently I cut something. I think

9:30

I cut a skirt up and made some hot

9:33

pants or shorts or something or

9:35

a bikini. I mean, seem to remember that. Or

9:38

she's told me that I don't remember actually doing that. Do

9:40

you think it was potentially forbidden items that you wanted

9:43

but didn't have? Yeah, exactly. The things. Yeah. And that's

9:45

when I started making clothes for myself because I

9:47

wanted clothes I couldn't have. I mean, it was

9:49

different back then. There wasn't fast fashion as it

9:51

were. There weren't cheap outlets for buying clothes. I

9:54

was always making things. I was always doing

9:56

things and making things. So I was either

9:59

drawing, painting. sewing or making things.

10:01

I was always doing that. I wasn't a

10:03

sort of playing outside kid. Okay. I mean,

10:05

my sister would be outside climbing trees and

10:07

I'd be indoors making things. But they're all

10:09

quite solitary pursuits. So I wonder about your

10:11

kind of personality as a kid. Were you

10:13

shy? Probably a bit

10:16

because I've been accused of being standoffish and

10:18

that usually comes from being shy, doesn't it?

10:21

Probably I was, but I did have friends, but

10:23

not thousands. And you knew

10:25

your own mind even as a kid? I

10:28

don't remember being anxious or nervous about things. And

10:30

I think I knew what I liked. And I

10:32

knew what I wanted. So I probably was demanding.

10:35

And so then there's maybe a sense of a kid that was

10:37

a little bit different, even then. So that

10:39

stood out in a crowd a little bit. Probably, but

10:41

I did that myself as well. Because I wanted to

10:43

look different. I mean, half the half the point of

10:45

making my own clothes was so that

10:47

they weren't the same as everybody else's. It's

10:50

time for your next desk. What have you chosen? I

10:53

remember hearing David Bowe for the first

10:55

time on the radio, and I must have been

10:57

11 or 12. And

11:00

it was Starman. And I was just

11:02

like, stop what I was doing. And then

11:04

I remember having a little cassette tape recording. I

11:06

remember rushing to get it and turning it on

11:08

and holding the microphone up to the speaker on

11:10

the radio to record it and

11:12

then telling everyone to be quiet. And you're, shush, I'm

11:14

recording the radio. After that, I

11:17

was then looking out for anything to do with

11:19

him. And I remember seeing the sort of iconic

11:21

moment on top of the pops where he

11:23

was singing the same song. And it

11:25

was extraordinary. Just his whole look, I'd never seen anything

11:27

like it. And he had the blue guitar and the

11:30

orange hair. And there was that

11:32

moment where in the middle of it, he

11:34

actually looked straight into the camera. And

11:36

he's looking at you. And it was like, oh my goodness,

11:39

this is so exciting. And it was, you

11:41

know, that was that was one of those moments that was one

11:43

of those life changing moments, really. But

11:46

having loved Ziggy Stardust

11:48

and the whole of that album, I've

11:51

actually picked Life on Mars as

11:53

my David Bowie track. This

11:56

song made me feel

11:58

like I could do it. anything and I don't know

12:01

why but this was the song I used to sing

12:03

to myself sitting on my

12:05

bed in my little bedroom thinking one

12:08

day I'm gonna be doing something I really want to

12:10

do life

12:41

on Mars David Bowie Sandy Powell you did

12:43

a foundation course at st. Martin School of

12:45

Art in the late 70s how do you

12:47

look back at those days I had

12:51

a ball I mean it was my first taste of

12:53

real freedom out of school I kind of made a

12:55

decision when I left my school like Sydenham High

12:57

School for Girls I decided I

12:59

was going to change my life I decided this is it I

13:02

changed my name from Sandra to Sandy first

13:05

day at college I remember we

13:07

did a supposed woodworking course where we had

13:09

to make something and I actually made

13:11

a soft sculpture out of fabric I made it I think I

13:13

made a train out of fabric but then other

13:15

other things I made an outfit out of satin it

13:17

was a pencil I was dressed as a pencil so

13:19

I had a pencil skirt that was shaped like a

13:21

pencil with military epaulettes made

13:24

out of pencils and then pencils around

13:26

a high collar I mean it's crazy

13:29

you started a degree in theatre design at

13:31

the Central School of Art and Design but

13:33

you dropped out and began working for the

13:35

dancer and choreographer Lindsay Kemp now he taught

13:37

mind to David Bowie and he'd first become

13:40

aware of him while you were still just

13:42

a schoolgirl and you went to see his

13:44

show flowers what did he make of it I

13:46

had never seen anything like it and I

13:48

was just transfixed it was

13:50

glam rock on stage and I

13:52

thought this is the world I want to be part

13:54

of and how did you end up working

13:57

for him one day

13:59

when I was at college I saw advertised

14:01

at the Pineapple Dance Centre that he was

14:03

doing classes. And I went to

14:05

his class and then you literally had to

14:07

sort of waft around a room and pretend to be a cherry

14:09

blossom. I mean

14:12

kind of excruciatingly embarrassing but then you realise

14:14

everyone else was doing it and he was doing it so you just

14:16

sort of go with it. And then at the end of that

14:18

first class I went up to him and did this sort

14:20

of, I really like your work, I'm a huge admirer

14:22

and would you be interested in looking at any of my

14:24

work? And I'd done a couple, I'd bought a couple of

14:27

drawings with me I think. And he invited me

14:29

to the pub and we went to the pub and I

14:31

showed him my work and then we became friends,

14:33

we hung out and I did his classes. And

14:36

you went on to design the costumes for his

14:38

production of Nijinsky in the Studio Theatre at La

14:40

Scala in Milan. What

14:42

do you remember about that time? I was like

14:44

sent a plane ticket and flew to Milan

14:47

and turned up and didn't know what on earth I was

14:49

doing. Were you scared? I suppose I must

14:51

have been but I don't know. Or if I was scared

14:54

I might not have gone, I don't know, I just thought

14:56

I'm just doing this. What

14:58

Lindsay taught me and got me interested

15:00

in was dyeing, I mean

15:02

all the fabrics were dyed but then everything was broken

15:05

down which means everything was made to look old

15:07

and tattered. Sequins dropping off

15:09

type things and that's what I

15:11

learned how to do really with him. Yeah so

15:13

all of the clothes immediately had so much character.

15:15

They did, I mean I think I even took

15:18

a blowtorch to something to get it

15:20

sort of burnt looking and bedraggled. I

15:23

mean he was just such a fantastic example of

15:25

being bold and taking risks and going for it.

15:27

And I mean even just being bold like taking

15:29

a blowtorch to a costume. I mean I got

15:31

into trouble doing that at a later point where

15:34

I actually burned a parkour floor somewhere. And

15:42

we worked in Italy and we

15:44

also worked in Spain but his company were

15:47

completely international. His

15:49

dancers were from South America, from France, from Italy,

15:51

from everywhere. And I remember learning

15:54

my first Spanish when

15:56

one of the dancers would run off the stage

15:58

and say, Mas le entrejlo. which means

16:01

more sequins, more sequins.

16:03

There was never enough sequins, so it was

16:05

gluing more sequins onto the tanger.

16:08

Sandy Powell, let's have your next disc, another piece of

16:10

music I think, number four. Oh,

16:13

well this is La Vie en

16:15

Rose, and it's an instrumental version,

16:17

and this is the piece

16:19

of music that Lindsay, as

16:22

Notre Dame de Fleurs in Flowers, made

16:24

his entrance onto the stage. This really

16:27

sums up the first time I ever

16:29

saw him and that show

16:31

and the effect that whole experience had on

16:33

me. La

17:04

Vie en Rose, performed by Alan Dunn.

17:06

Sandy Powell, in 1983, began working with

17:08

the director Derek Jarman, initially on music

17:11

videos then, on his film Caravaggio. But

17:13

what was the brief? The

17:15

brief was, well, it was about the

17:17

artist Caravaggio, but he wasn't going to

17:20

set it in the exact period. But

17:22

somewhere in the 1940s, and it was that

17:25

working class, raw look,

17:29

there was a lot of full-as-earth thrown at things. I mean,

17:31

there was a lot of full-as-earth on the

17:33

set, so there was dust everywhere, and everything

17:35

was dusty and worn and lovely. And that's

17:37

really all the first work I did, seemed

17:39

to be making things look old and worn

17:42

in and well-loved. And as

17:44

well as that, the approach to work for Derek

17:46

was to enjoy it, to have

17:48

fun. We had such a ball. I mean,

17:50

I thought, great, I love this, I love

17:52

the world of film. It was not too

17:54

dissimilar from working in the theatre, where

17:57

everybody did everything. I mean, the kind of theatre

17:59

I did. Back then. For

18:01

instance, I mean, we shot Caravaggio

18:03

in a warehouse on Canary Wharf

18:05

before he became the Canary Wharf that we knew. Unsoundproofed,

18:09

rickety, big warehouse shooting

18:12

down one end. There was a set built down one end.

18:14

The other end was my

18:16

costume department with a couple of cutting tables

18:18

where the costumes that we were making things

18:21

as we went along, everybody

18:23

marked in, even the actors. I mean,

18:25

Nigel Terry would iron his own costume

18:27

and he would even hide his

18:29

own costume at the end of the day because

18:31

he thought he thought we were disorganised and partying

18:33

too much to actually find his costume every day.

18:36

And were you partying? We did party.

18:38

I must admit, we worked hard all day and

18:40

then we'd work into the evening and

18:43

then we would go out to

18:45

nightclubs at 11 o'clock midnight. I'd

18:47

roll home at about three

18:49

in the morning, sleep for two

18:52

hours, sometimes in the bath, head in the bath,

18:54

have a bath, sleep for a couple of hours,

18:56

get back up and go to work. I was

18:58

having a whale of a time. And did you

19:00

all go together with Derek? Derek didn't go out

19:02

tonight. No, he was sensible then. Okay. I mean,

19:04

no, he treated life like it was a party

19:06

and he treated work like it was a party,

19:08

but actually he was responsible. Oh, but he treated

19:10

work like a party. What did he say to

19:12

you about that? No, that was one of his

19:15

pieces of advice. He actually said that, you know,

19:17

really you should go to work every day with the

19:19

same excitement as going to a party. Otherwise,

19:21

there's no point. I think

19:23

there was quite a tight budget on Caravaggio. It

19:26

was 400,000 total. Crazy.

19:28

How did that affect you creatively?

19:31

I didn't even know about budgets

19:33

then or think about budgets because I was

19:35

being brought up in the theatre where again, you make

19:37

things out of nothing. And with Lindsay Kemp, you make

19:39

things out of nothing. It was more of the same. There

19:43

was one, it was for the fancy

19:45

dress scene, the party scene and somebody's

19:47

hair wasn't right. So we

19:49

needed to create a headdress and

19:52

I think I ripped a sleeve, a big

19:54

sleeve of one costume and fashioned

19:56

that into a headpiece and then it needed jewels

19:58

and so I used to quality street

20:00

rappers. Just stuck on,

20:03

I mean really. I think

20:05

we'll go to some more music here, Sand, if

20:07

you wouldn't mind your fifth choice today. What are

20:09

we going to hear next? I'll Never Fall in

20:11

Love Again by Bobby Gentry. We're going

20:13

way back now to 1969. I used to

20:18

listen to a radio show on Sundays called

20:20

Pick of the Pops with a

20:22

DJ called Alan Freeman. And my

20:24

mother, being a secretary, knew how to

20:26

do shorthand and I would make her

20:28

write the lyrics to the songs, to

20:31

my favourite songs, so

20:33

that I could then learn all the lyrics. And

20:35

I have such a vivid memory of

20:37

sitting in our kitchen in our flat

20:40

in Clapham at a table with

20:42

her and her pad and pencil

20:45

and listening to Bobby Gentry sing

20:47

I'll Never Fall in Love Again. I'll

21:10

Never Fall in

21:17

Love Again by Bobby Gentry. Bobby

21:19

Gentry and I'll Never Fall in Love Again.

21:21

Sandy Powell in 1998, you designed the costumes

21:25

for the Todd Haynes film, Velvet Gold

21:27

Mine. You won your first BAFTA for

21:29

it. It's a personal favourite of yours.

21:31

Why? Because it's

21:33

about the 1970s, which probably, you know,

21:35

those years, the 1970s, obviously for me

21:38

were the most formative, inspirational

21:40

years. And Velvet

21:42

Gold Mine was everything

21:45

I wasn't able to do at the time because I

21:47

was too young. So I was able to actually experience

21:49

it in my own way through this

21:51

film. It wasn't long after

21:53

that that you won your first Academy Award

21:56

for Shakespeare in Love. Actually that same year,

21:58

I think. And that's such an interesting contrast

22:00

because those films couldn't be more different. How

22:03

authentic can you actually be with period

22:05

costumes? Shakespeare in Love

22:07

was set in a period, but it's a

22:09

comedy. We weren't trying to be absolutely 100%

22:12

historically accurate, and that's difficult to do when

22:14

you're doing something like the Elizabethan period. You

22:17

know, you can try your best,

22:20

but you can only be accurate to

22:22

a certain extent because we cannot have the same

22:24

materials. We don't have the same machinery. The stitches

22:26

aren't as tiny as they were, making a Victorian

22:28

dress. If you look at a original... She's a

22:31

tiny. She's a tiny, yes. Another

22:33

film of yours, yeah. When I did Young Victoria, I

22:35

got to actually look at some original pieces

22:37

of her costumes at Kensington Palace, and

22:40

the fabric is so much finer. The stitching is

22:42

so much smaller. You can't do it. And what

22:45

we do now in comparison is gigantic

22:47

and ugly, but then again, people

22:49

are bigger. You know, people aren't as tiny as

22:51

they were even in the 70s. Everybody's changed, so

22:53

in a way it's all scaled up. And

22:56

how do you manage situations where, you know,

22:58

costumes might be... there might

23:00

be differing opinions around which

23:03

costumes actors should wear? I mean, we

23:05

mentioned Shakespeare in Love before, and I think there was

23:07

some concern about the male members

23:09

of the cast wearing tights

23:11

from some studio executives. I

23:14

don't remember. Oh, well, I

23:16

do remember. I think what you're talking about, yes.

23:18

I think

23:20

what you're referring to, yeah. The Elizabethan

23:23

period for men could be those

23:25

very short hoes. Well, the hoes are the tights,

23:27

but the very short britches, as it were, the

23:29

really, really small ones. Those are the ones. And

23:32

yes, there was some sort of comment

23:35

about maybe that would look ridiculous and nobody

23:37

will think that Joe Fines is sexy enough, or,

23:39

you know, it'll alienate the modern audience.

23:41

So what he was wearing is period

23:43

accurate as well, but a little bit later, which is a

23:45

bridge that comes down to the knee and then he's got

23:47

a boot that it tucks into, so it looks a bit

23:49

more... So that's where your creative license

23:51

comes in. I'm not comfortable to the modern eye, but

23:54

I mean, you know, I've had problems

23:56

for years over producers or executives

23:58

complaining about things like... People always hate

24:01

actors in hats and you think, why? Why

24:03

is that? Well, there are two things. Quite often

24:05

cinematographers don't like hats because they think they can't

24:07

light the face properly because it provides shadow, but

24:09

then we always figure it out. And

24:12

then it's just that thing where people think they're doing

24:14

a period film, but then they want it to look

24:16

modern because they want the audience to respond

24:19

or identify. Well, then why do the period film

24:21

in the first place? Why not do a contemporary

24:23

film? This certain executive was worried about

24:25

the hats in Gangs of New York. Are you

24:28

going to put Leo in a hat? Yeah. Why?

24:30

Well, they wear hats. This is Gangs

24:33

of New York where everybody has

24:35

a hat on and there's a scene in fact where

24:37

all the hats get flown into the air. And

24:39

I remember saying, is this a Martin Scorsese film? They've

24:41

got to be hats. You won the

24:43

argument. Yes. Time

24:46

for the more music, Sandy Pell. Disc

24:48

number six. This is Satellite of Love

24:51

by Lou Reed. It reminds me and

24:53

it really brings up all the fabulous

24:55

memories of working on Velvet Goldmine. We

24:57

kind of live the life. We worked on the film

24:59

and we partied hard and we were all in the

25:01

film. I've never

25:03

seen myself in it, but I am in a

25:06

couple of the party scenes. Yeah, it's a 1971

25:08

New Year's Eve party scene. I'm in there somewhere.

25:19

It seems like that drives me out

25:21

of my mind. I

25:27

watched it for a little while. I like

25:31

to watch things on TV. Lou

25:41

Reed, Satellite of Love. Sandy,

25:44

you work with many of the same

25:46

directors, including Todd Haynes and Martin Scorsese

25:49

repeatedly. I wonder how

25:51

much input you get from directors. Both

25:54

Martin and Todd do

25:56

a hell of a lot of research themselves before

25:58

they begin. tried a

26:00

soundtrack as well as visuals, which is

26:02

just for mood and inspiration. And Martin

26:05

Scorsese, you'll get sent a list

26:07

of films or a pile of

26:10

DVDs to watch. When

26:13

we did Gangs of New York, which is my first film

26:15

with him, he made me watch

26:17

an entire film to look at the shape

26:19

of a collar or a pattern of a

26:21

collar, a whole film just to look out

26:23

for one scene of somebody at the theatre

26:25

in a box watching a play. That says

26:27

a lot about his attention to detail and

26:29

his visual memory. And he remembers everything, everything.

26:32

He will remember kind of

26:34

notching a lapel on a jacket. And remember, if I

26:36

say, well, that's more 1830s and that's more 1850s, he

26:39

will remember the difference and

26:42

likes and enjoys clothes. So what happens when an

26:45

actor has a new costume on in a scene

26:47

is you bring them onto the set, you bring

26:49

them to him. And it's really,

26:51

he has this strange habit of touching the

26:53

cloth. Like on a man's suit,

26:55

he'll just touch the arm, touch the cloth and

26:57

then go, hmm, right. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Very good. Have

27:01

you ever been tempted to keep something at the end

27:03

of a shoot? Quite

27:05

often on a studio film, they keep everything

27:07

and archive it. So on

27:09

the projects that I can take things

27:11

from, I take one or two key

27:14

costumes. I also get terribly possessive about

27:16

them. I don't want them going anywhere else. I

27:18

do. It's a bit weird. I feel like they're mine,

27:21

but they're not and I have to let them

27:23

go. They're your creations. And have

27:25

you ever taken something home from the costume reel

27:27

before you should have? I

27:30

did. It was in

27:34

1991, we filmed The Crying Game,

27:36

which was an amazing film. Another one

27:38

of those low, low budget art

27:40

house films where there wasn't enough money.

27:43

And back in the day or even now,

27:45

I mean, quite often at the end of the film,

27:48

when there are costumes left over the production, sell them

27:50

off half price. So there was a

27:52

costume I wanted. That was a goatee suit and

27:55

I really wanted it for her, but it was far too

27:57

expensive. I couldn't afford it on my budget and I thought,

27:59

well, I know. I like it. I'll

28:01

buy it afterwards half price. And

28:04

the film ended just before Christmas and I was

28:07

going away that Christmas. And I

28:09

thought, oh, I'm going to take that suit with me. That's really great. And

28:11

I needed to alter it to fit me. I actually

28:13

wanted the skirt a bit shorter. So I thought, oh,

28:15

we're done with the suit. We've used it. I'll alter the suit.

28:19

And then to my horror, a few days later

28:21

discovered that we actually hadn't finished using it and

28:23

she was going to be wearing it again. How

28:27

did that phone call go? I

28:30

actually wasn't on the set and I was called to the

28:32

set. I was summoned to the set saying, sorry, do you

28:34

want to come to the set? All health broken loose. I

28:36

thought, what happened? Right. And

28:38

it was, what have you done? How

28:40

did you get around it? Luckily the scene was

28:42

in a restaurant and she was sat at a table. And

28:44

then I said, she called it up from the table. I mean, I

28:47

can't believe I'm telling this story. Really

28:49

unprofessional. I've never done it again.

28:51

But, you know, mistakes happen. I

28:54

think we'd better have some more music. Disc number seven.

28:56

What are we going to hear next? Actually, this is

28:58

from that same period of time where I was being a little bit

29:00

irresponsible. Alison

29:03

Limerick, where love lives,

29:05

reminds me of Sunday

29:07

afternoons, day after

29:10

a big night out at Friends

29:12

of Mine, John and Tim, who

29:15

used to provide a lovely sort

29:17

of Sunday roast when you're on a bit of

29:20

a sort of come down after a big night out dancing. It

29:23

was also a period where I

29:26

met my partner Alfie and

29:28

this reminds me of the four

29:30

of us lying around John

29:33

and Tim's living room in Brixton, drinking

29:35

red wine and eating roast potatoes

29:37

and listening to. Alice

30:12

in Limerick, Where Love Lives Sandy, one

30:14

critic said of your work she has

30:16

an act for giving her costumes emotional

30:18

accuracy. She sends her costumes out to

30:20

do a pretty complex job and succeeds

30:22

on every count. So insightful and well

30:24

put I think. From your point of

30:26

view, how do you manage to

30:28

achieve it? I have no

30:30

idea. At the beginning of every job

30:33

I think I can't do it. I think I've forgotten how to

30:35

do it. And I don't know how to do

30:37

it until I'm in the middle of it. Well let me ask this

30:39

question then. How do you know when you've done

30:41

it? Ha.

30:43

It just feels right. I just know when I've done

30:45

it. I know, I mean, okay, so what happens

30:48

sometimes with an act when

30:50

a fitting, I might have two rails of clothes, I

30:52

might have 20 outfits on a rail. And

30:54

the idea is to try them all on and

30:56

find out which one's best. Sometimes I'll get to

30:59

number five and it works. And I go, no, I'm

31:01

not going to do any more now. And

31:03

I've had assistants who have said to me, but there

31:05

might be a better one down there at the

31:07

end of the round. I go, no, this is the one.

31:09

So I don't know what it is. It's just I know.

31:12

And I wonder about getting dressed yourself.

31:14

Spending so long, you know, thinking about

31:17

fabrics and textures and

31:19

all of that must change your

31:21

approach to how you dress yourself.

31:25

I dress myself for comfort. I mean,

31:27

really, I just wear what I feel comfortable in. I

31:29

wear what's easy. And quite often I wear the

31:31

same thing every day. Quite often I'm picking it

31:33

off the floor at the bottom of the bed.

31:36

It's almost time, Sandy, to send you to the

31:38

desert island. I wonder how you'll adapt to life

31:41

there. I quite like the idea of

31:43

a bit of solitude. What will you miss

31:45

the most while you're on your desert island? Oh,

31:49

different visuals, I suppose. Different

31:52

scenery, different things to look at. Well,

31:55

you'll have your discs for company and we'll let

31:57

you have one more before we send you to

31:59

the island. The crowd. Your last choice

32:01

today was the gonna be this is

32:03

Tony Bennett singing I left my heart

32:05

in San Francisco. This

32:08

song I really associate with my

32:10

dad and we paid ice you

32:12

know and. It makes me very

32:14

emotional. Every time I hear it. Ah,

32:18

Ma oh.

32:25

He. says.

32:34

Hi. Tony.

32:47

Bennett I left my heart in San Francisco.

32:49

Sunday Powell I'm going to send you a

32:51

way to the island Now I will give

32:53

you the Bible's the complete works of Shakespeare

32:55

to take with. You can also take one

32:57

or the book mobile app Me: it's cool

33:00

Gypsies by. Joseph Kudoka. During

33:02

the sixties and seventies, he photographed Ship Says.

33:04

From Romania, Western Europe

33:06

and Eastern Europe. Was

33:08

that would have Derek Jarman preference either. This

33:10

was one of the first books. That Derek

33:13

recommended I use and it was a

33:15

major influence on Caravaggio. and it's a

33:17

book I used to this day. There

33:19

is a particular. Couple of images which I

33:21

use whatever film is cause it's a young

33:24

man with attitude that I really love. and

33:26

as with some thing. That I could

33:28

associate him with eternal. Have a luxury

33:30

item. What would you like? My

33:33

luxury item is actually a lemon

33:35

tree. I has a has a

33:37

slice of lemon hot. Water in

33:40

the morning before I can function and I

33:42

also saw eleven shake the quite handy confide

33:44

of it a shade and if it blossoms

33:46

it will be a nice smell. Castaways in

33:48

the post have been allowed to take trees

33:50

including them in trees, orange trees, mango trees

33:53

and cherry trees so send him could say

33:55

yes or no yeah but sign of the

33:57

imagery. and finally which one

33:59

true of the eight that you've shared with

34:01

us today would you say from the waves? Life

34:04

on Mars. Is there anyone else thing

34:06

along too? No,

34:08

it is my favourite. Sandy

34:12

Powell, thank you very much for letting us hear

34:14

your desert island discs. Thank you. Hello,

34:40

I hope you enjoyed my conversation

34:42

with Sandy. I wonder if she'll

34:44

make herself an outfit out of

34:46

palm fronds and seashells. We've cast

34:48

away Sandy's fellow costume designer Jenny

34:50

Bevan and people from the world

34:52

of fashion and tailoring including Stella

34:54

McCartney, Vivian Wathwood and Andrew Ramroop.

34:56

You can find these episodes in

34:58

our Desert Island Discs programme archive

35:00

and through BBC Surns. The studio

35:02

manager for today's programme was Gail

35:04

Gordon, the assistant producer was Christine

35:06

Pavlovski and the producer was Paula

35:08

McGinley. The series editor is John

35:10

Goudy. Next time my guest will be

35:13

the judge Rita Ray. I do

35:15

hope you'll join us. Hello,

35:29

I'm Greg Jenner. I'm the host of You're

35:31

Dead To Me on BBC Sounds. We are

35:33

the comedy show that takes history seriously and

35:36

we are back for a seventh series where

35:38

as ever I'm joined by brilliant comedians and

35:40

historians to discuss global history and we're doing

35:42

Catherine The Great of Russia with David Mitchell,

35:44

The History of Kung Fu with Phil Wang.

35:46

We're doing the Bloomsbury Group for our hundredth

35:48

episode with Susie Ruffell and we're finishing with

35:50

a Mozart spectacular with the BBC Concert Orchestra.

35:52

So that's series seven of You're Dead To

35:54

Me plus our back catalog, listen and subscribe

35:57

on BBC Sounds. you