1:59

the tools to get on with their lives.

2:02

Professor Dame Leslie Regan, welcome to Desert Island

2:04

Discs. Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be

2:06

here. We're delighted to have you. Now, Leslie, I think these

2:09

pictures on your office wall tell quite a

2:11

few stories, actually. I'm assuming that

2:13

the baby photographs come from grateful parents.

2:16

How does it feel when you receive them? Are you somebody who

2:19

is emotionally reactive and attached

2:21

to the result of your work? Yes,

2:23

well, it's marvellous because they are

2:26

so excited and so thrilled and so appreciative.

2:29

And then they want to share it. And I think that's what's

2:32

so lovely. You get to know them very well. I think

2:34

I've learned a lot about parenthood and

2:36

motherhood

2:37

in particular from my patients.

2:39

What's

2:39

the biggest lesson? What have they taught you? I think

2:42

it's really that you cannot take things for granted

2:44

and that you also have to be, if you've got a problem

2:46

with miscarriages or stillbirth or

2:48

whatever, then I think what I've got, my

2:50

job is to sort of focus them on thinking

2:52

about the end and sometimes say

2:55

to the ladies I'm looking after, I'm not sure when we're going to

2:57

get to the destination, but we've got to hang on in there,

2:59

do everything really methodically, get

3:02

to the answers and then we're going to get there. Are

3:04

you a risk taker? Is that how you see yourself? I

3:07

suppose I am. I mean, you know, in

3:09

my current role as the ambassador, there

3:11

are times when we're talking about something and it's all

3:13

a bit difficult or we don't usually do it that way.

3:16

And I often turn around and say, well, let's just do it and

3:18

see. You've got to talk to policymakers, but also

3:20

the public. And you've done that throughout your

3:22

career. You know, you've run the television programs,

3:24

written books. I think you even changed

3:26

Davina McColl's coil on screen. And I do.

3:29

One documentary. Maybe

3:33

we'll come back to that nickname later. Do

3:36

you enjoy being in front of the camera? No,

3:39

I get very nervous. But if

3:41

I can be confident and really

3:44

persuasive, then I know I'm going to make

3:46

it better for girls and women. And that's what I really

3:48

want to do. And it sounds like, you know, I sound a bit messianic

3:51

when I say that, don't I? But I really

3:53

do think it's so important because

3:55

they've had a bad deal for a long time. It's

3:58

time for your first disc, Leslie. What have you done?

3:59

chosen un-why.

4:00

When I was a little girl my

4:03

dad brought home a gramophone record, a gramophone

4:06

player, it was one of those big boxes and the

4:08

final disc went down and and then it started

4:10

whirring around and you picked up the arm and

4:12

you put it on and he adored

4:15

Edith Piaf and Ella Fitzgerald

4:17

and Louis Armstrong

4:19

and Frank Sinatra but the one that I

4:21

remember that we both really loved to

4:23

listen to together was Nina Simone's

4:26

Mr. Bojangles and Bill Bojangles

4:28

was a tap dancer and he had worn

4:30

out shoes and I used to ask my dad why

4:33

he kept polishing my brothers and my shoes when we

4:35

were little to go to school and he said well

4:37

when he was little that he'd only had one

4:39

pair and he had to make sure he didn't wear out so

4:41

it's Mr. Bojangles.

4:59

Nina Simone, Mr. Bojangles.

5:16

Leslie Regan you were

5:18

born in London in 1956 the eldest

5:20

of two children and your dad Jack

5:22

worked in newspapers in circulation

5:25

I think he'd had quite an extraordinary life

5:27

himself. Yeah really extraordinary

5:29

so and I'm

5:31

so grateful to him because he believed in

5:34

educating girls and I often

5:36

reflect how different my life would have been if he

5:38

hadn't had that conviction because it wasn't it wasn't

5:41

the norm for kids from my background

5:44

to necessarily go to school after the age

5:46

of 16 but he was determined but

5:48

what had happened to him is that I think this was possibly

5:51

why he was so passionate about it is

5:53

that he was at school and he was 12 years old

5:56

and his mum who was quite badly disabled

5:58

picked him up one day and said going and

6:01

she left Cardis, from the slum they lived

6:03

in, and she left her other

6:05

child behind and they

6:07

went to London to start a new life and

6:10

what I think was extraordinary about that is how brave

6:12

she was because she was a devout Catholic and

6:15

she knew that she'd be excommunicated and she

6:17

was. She left her husband, were they

6:19

running away? Yes, they were running away and

6:22

I think it was an abusive family and

6:24

she was very unhappy and I think she wanted my dad

6:26

to grow up somewhere different. He started

6:29

a new life in London at 12 did he have to go

6:31

straight to work? He went straight to work and the story

6:33

goes that he got a wheelbarrow and he sold

6:36

handkerchiefs on the North End Road Market and

6:38

he must have done rather well because he then moved

6:40

his mum into a house and then

6:42

he went off to night school when he was about 15 or 16 and

6:45

then all the rest is history but I think

6:47

that the education, passion for him and

6:49

making sure his eldest child,

6:52

his daughter was educated was because his mum

6:54

was illiterate. He sounds like an extraordinary

6:56

man and you credit him with becoming

6:59

the person that you are today. Tell

7:01

me more about that. I mean he shaped you by

7:03

giving you the opportunity to learn and emphasise

7:06

in the value of education but I mean

7:08

in terms of your character and the support he gave

7:10

you as well as a person. Well he

7:12

just told me that there was nothing

7:14

I couldn't do if I didn't try. Well

7:17

if I tried hard enough and he

7:19

paid for me to go to school, like God knows where he got the money

7:21

from, we weren't wealthy and he took

7:23

the gamble that if he paid for me to go to this

7:25

private school in South London

7:28

between the ages of 8 and 11 I would get an

7:30

11 plus scholarship as it was called in those days

7:32

and I did. But the

7:35

only time I really saw Jack furious,

7:37

really really angry was

7:39

when he came to the parents'

7:42

evening when I was doing my A levels and I was really

7:44

really struggling with physics and maths and

7:47

they said oh well we don't think she

7:49

can get to medical school and he was so angry

7:51

with them. He said you're meant to be

7:53

encouraging my daughter to fulfil

7:55

her dreams, what are you talking about? And

7:58

he just said to me you're just going to have to be a little bit of a bitch. carry on

8:00

and do it yourself. Well we'll find out exactly

8:02

how you did in a moment but next

8:04

Leslie would love to hear your second disc. What

8:07

have you gone for? So this is

8:09

the adagietto which is the fourth movement

8:11

from Mahler's fifth symphony. I

8:13

didn't really know much about Mahler until about

8:16

15 years ago when I started going to the proms on a regular

8:18

basis and I remember hearing this and

8:21

being completely spellbound and

8:23

that evening I came out of the Albert

8:25

Hall and I thought oh isn't

8:27

this wonderful? This concert hall was just for me

8:29

and I looked up and the Albert

8:31

Memorial was all lit up with lights

8:33

and I thought oh and they put the statue on and

8:36

lit it up just for me. So

9:40

the adagietto from Mahler's fifth symphony

9:42

performed by the Berlin Philharmonic conducted

9:45

by Sir Simon Rattle. So

9:47

Leslie Regan we've heard about your

9:50

father to whom you were very close as you said

9:52

but how would you describe your relationship

9:54

with your mother? Well it was tricky

9:56

she had a lot of mental health problems and

9:59

we were often at war. with each other and that she

10:01

was unwell a lot of time. So your mother was

10:03

Dorothea, she had those problems back

10:05

then. I think she had very bad depression

10:07

and I think it was recurrent. And she

10:09

spent a lot of time in hospital. She

10:12

divorced from my father when I was at medical

10:14

school and then she remarried and she went

10:16

out to Africa to live for 25 years

10:19

and she had a very happy second life.

10:21

Well I'm glad to hear that but during your teens

10:23

Dorothea's problems became more severe. What

10:26

was the impact on you and family

10:28

life during that time? I

10:30

just felt a bit different from the other kids because

10:32

they were all doing sort of yummy mummy stuff

10:34

and she wasn't like that and

10:37

she wasn't there. What was she like? I

10:40

think she was just very wrapped up in being very depressed

10:43

and she just goes very very angry and

10:45

it was distressing. She

10:48

was just saying

10:50

I'll say goodbye and I never knew

10:52

what that meant. She would send

10:54

a message, she would ring school and say to tell

10:56

Leslie goodbye. So

10:59

that was devastating. And I think my brother who was a lot

11:01

younger, well not a lot, he was a few years younger than me

11:04

and he used to be very confused about it and

11:06

that's really one of the reasons why we were so close

11:08

I think because I used to feel that

11:10

I always had to look out for him. He was devoted to

11:12

me and I was devoted to him. We looked after each other. Did

11:15

you feel a bit old beyond your years? I

11:17

suppose so, yes. There was a bit of a life that

11:19

I missed out in my teens because I was just

11:21

doing other little things like organising a bigger

11:24

bit of a housekeeper. Did you worry about

11:26

your dad? Yes, but

11:28

he had this inborn optimism which is going

11:30

to be fine and he was so terribly

11:33

proud of the two of us. But I think he thought that was

11:35

enough. But anyway. It's

11:37

gone. I think that she was an unhappy woman and I'm glad

11:39

that she found a bit of happiness later on in life.

11:42

It's time for some more music Leslie. This is

11:44

your third choice today. What have you chosen

11:47

and why are you taking it to the island with you? This

11:49

is a little piece of the Bach B minor

11:52

math which I love and it's

11:54

the Esteene Davis, the countertenor singing

11:56

it. I didn't really understand about.

12:00

classical music at all until I went to

12:02

Cambridge. And my friend, who's

12:04

a midwife and still a great friend of mine, and I

12:06

used to go along to Evensong at

12:08

one of the colleges. And yes, in

12:10

Davis, I just think has got the most extraordinarily

12:13

beautiful voice. What I realised subsequently

12:16

when I heard this at the proms with him

12:19

as an adult was that I worked out from his

12:21

biography and his Wikipedia that he

12:23

was one of the choristers at

12:25

St John's College when Lyn and I used

12:28

to go to listen to the

12:30

Be Mine a Mass on a Sunday evening. I

12:32

thought that was a rather lovely connection.

13:35

Agnes Day from Bach's Be Mine a Mass

13:38

performed by Yester and Davis with the English

13:40

concert conducted by Harry

13:42

Bickett. Leslie Regan,

13:45

you decided to become a doctor when you were just a little

13:47

girl, about seven apparently. How did it happen?

13:49

What was the story? Do you remember? I told my dad,

13:52

apparently on my seventh birthday, I was going to be a doctor.

13:54

And we had no role models

13:56

in our family. Nobody was in healthcare at

13:58

all. But... I'd had to go

14:01

from the age of about three or four, I'd had to go and see

14:03

the doctor, the GP, every week because

14:05

I had the most appalling hay fever, which would

14:07

mean I really couldn't see. And

14:09

so I was part of this sort of experiment of

14:12

desensitising young people with these

14:15

weak and I had to do these weekly injections. And

14:18

I just thought he was a very nice man. I remember him, he

14:20

was Dr. Braybrooks and he had this nice surgery

14:23

and he obviously smoked pipe because he

14:25

always smoked, just go smoking there. He

14:28

was just a very kind, lovely man. And it

14:30

was interesting actually, because I never worked

14:33

at St Mary's before I went there as a consultant.

14:36

But with retrospect, I realised that it was the

14:38

allergy department at St Mary's where I was taken

14:40

to see this extraordinary guy, Dr. Franklin,

14:43

who was a real pioneer in allergy.

14:46

And the first time they did the scratch testing on

14:48

me for all the allergens

14:50

and the grass pollen. Yes, they do sort of a little

14:52

dot of everything on your skin and then cover

14:54

it up so you can see what you're allergic to. And then my mind came bumping

14:57

up and they all coalesced. And then Dr.

14:59

Franklin, Professor Franklin then said to me, oh,

15:02

he says, you're very allergic, can't you?

15:04

Do you think you could come back? And I think probably said to my mother, could

15:06

you bring her back next year at exam time

15:09

and we can show her to the students? So I used to go

15:11

and do that. So perhaps I thought I was part of that

15:13

experiment. Tell us about school and

15:15

how did you get on there? You're obviously very able,

15:17

but it doesn't sound like actually the

15:19

sciences were your natural messier. No,

15:22

they really weren't. Technology

15:24

was OK, but the chemistry and the physics.

15:26

I mean, I remember going to the physics A level, opening

15:29

the paper and thinking, I don't know what they're

15:31

talking about. I don't know what they're asking me.

15:33

It was it was awful. And

15:36

the reality was that I plowed

15:38

the physics and the maths. And it

15:41

was very shocking because it was the first time I failed at anything.

15:43

And I didn't take it too well. And I went stomping

15:45

off the end of the A levels. I thought

15:48

school was rubbish and they hadn't been supportive.

15:50

In fact, I went off and I started hitchhiking

15:53

around Israel and Palestine. And then

15:55

I just pulled myself together and I thought, come on.

15:58

And I went back home and. I

16:00

went to Kingston Polytechnic. Okay,

16:02

and how did you find that? Well, it was what

16:04

helped me because I met the most wonderful

16:07

chemistry teacher there who was an ex-boxer,

16:11

and he just stood watching me doing this chemistry

16:13

practical one day, and he said to me, you don't know what you're doing,

16:15

do you? I said, no, Mr. Love, I don't.

16:18

And he said, why are you here? I said, I've got to get

16:20

into medical school. And he said, well,

16:23

if that's the case, then I'm the person

16:25

to help you get there. And he did. Did

16:27

he ever get to see how well you did? Did he ever

16:30

find out what happened? Well, he did, because when

16:32

I graduated in 1980, I had two

16:34

tickets given

16:35

to me for my parents,

16:36

and my mother was away in Africa. So

16:38

I invited my dad

16:39

and Mr. Mercer to come to my graduation.

16:42

It's time for more music. Your fourth

16:44

choice today. What have you gone for? Well,

16:46

this is a track by Katie Melua. It's called,

16:49

I cried for you. And I love it

16:51

because, well, it's a tribute to all those miscarriage

16:53

patients I've had over the years, because

16:56

they were so brave in coming to talk about their

16:58

stories and to

17:00

share those with me. And I feel that without

17:02

them, we will be much further behind

17:05

in our understanding of miscarriage. So it's my

17:07

thank you to them. I

17:10

cried for you in the sky, I

17:12

cried for you. When,

17:17

when you went, I became a hopeless

17:20

man.

17:24

Life was not

17:26

for you. So I

17:28

cried for

17:31

you.

17:32

Love you, baby, don't worry,

17:34

baby.

17:39

Katie Melua, and I cried for you.

17:42

Leslie Wiegand, in 1975, you

17:44

got a place at the Royal Free Hospital Medical

17:46

School. Why did you choose obstetrics

17:49

and gynecology? Well, it was a done deal,

17:52

because almost as soon as I got to medical

17:54

school, I met most wonderful

17:57

woman called Luba Repchstein, who was

17:59

an obstetrician in government. psychologist and she was

18:01

absolutely passionate about her topic and every

18:03

year she would pick two or three of us and

18:05

make sure that we followed her. Oh why

18:08

did she pick you then do you think? Well probably because

18:10

I was nosy and asking a lot

18:12

of questions and she was an extraordinary

18:14

woman. She'd been rescued twice, once

18:17

from Russia, once from Berlin and

18:20

she arrived on a Polish passport in 1939

18:24

from Berlin and a few months

18:26

later the Polish School of Medicine was

18:28

evacuated

18:29

to Edinburgh

18:31

and she got on a train and she went and she registered

18:33

at the Polish School of Medicine and she paid

18:35

her way through medical school by playing

18:38

poker. Oh wow. Okay you can imagine.

18:40

Yeah she was a very prolific whiskey drinker as well.

18:43

She was great fun. She was great fun. Did she

18:46

put you in charge of her account? Well it wasn't all

18:48

her account but she liked me to sort out the spending

18:50

money and she was a bomb

18:52

vivre and she loved going to the

18:54

gavroche for dinner. Oh well that's very

18:57

strange. Always seemed to have a special table.

18:59

It was always available for her and she

19:01

used to say to me just to see how much fun

19:03

money we've got and then she'd say right we're going

19:05

to have champagne and we're going to go to the gavroche

19:07

so she was a wonderful woman. So obstetrics

19:10

and gynecology it was. You became a registrar

19:13

at Addenbrook's Hospital in Cambridge and while

19:15

you were there you started to become interested in

19:17

why women miscarried. Now was there

19:19

a particular incident that triggered that? Well

19:22

it was the first time I'd sort of been in charge on

19:24

my own at night and I was

19:27

just rather overwhelmed

19:29

by these poor women who were crying

19:31

and distressed and asking me always the

19:33

same question why did I miscarry? I don't understand why

19:36

I miscarried and all anyone said was

19:38

that oh well it's probably due to genetic abnormalities

19:40

which it usually is but there

19:43

are other reasons and I thought

19:45

that just telling them well that's it

19:47

wasn't okay. So that the first part of my thesis,

19:49

my MD thesis, was actually working

19:52

out pathways about sort

19:54

of the epidemiology and the social side of

19:56

that of miscarriage and then I got very

19:58

involved in the immunology of pregnancy.

19:59

which is a complex, complex area.

20:02

Did

20:02

you feel like you were obviously exploring

20:04

a new frontier that other people had neglected,

20:07

but also busting a taboo? Did you

20:09

come up against any criticism? The taboo thing was really,

20:11

really important. It was about the

20:14

getting rid of the myths and getting

20:16

people to understand that this was such a common problem

20:19

that we needed to be able to talk about it. And

20:21

so the advocacy and the education,

20:24

I think, was really, really important. And

20:26

that's where I got my excitement, I think,

20:28

about women's health as opposed to specific

20:31

diseases and problems. It's

20:33

time for your next disc. What have you got for us, Leslie? Well,

20:36

I've chosen a piece by Maria Callas in Memory

20:38

of Luba because Luba always

20:40

does so lovely listening to Maria Callas. So this is

20:43

Casa Diva from Bellini's Norma. And

20:45

we would listen to this in her front room, always

20:47

with a glass of champagne.

21:50

Casa Diva from Bellini's Norma performed

21:52

by Maria Callas with the Teatro Aliscala

21:54

Orchestra conducted by Tulio Serafin.

21:58

Leslie Regan, throughout your career. You've often

22:00

been the only woman as part of the

22:03

medical team you're on. What kinds

22:05

of reactions have you had from your male

22:07

colleagues over the years? I wonder whether that

22:09

kind of being the only one in the room has ever

22:12

caused difficulties for you. Well,

22:14

it did. I mean, before I went up to Cambridge,

22:16

I did a surgery job for a while

22:18

for a year. I went to East End

22:21

and I had a very, very busy job. I was

22:23

operating with every day. Three

22:26

or four male surgeons who really

22:28

thought it was a bit odd. They'd never had a female

22:30

before, a female SHO, and one of them

22:32

just wouldn't talk to me. He used to

22:35

communicate with me via the ward sister or

22:37

the theatre nurse. Even

22:39

in surgery? Yes, yes. He said to the

22:41

scrub sister one day in the middle

22:44

of an operation, well, I don't suppose our SHO

22:46

would be capable of passing her surgical fellowship.

22:49

And behind my mask and in my pajama suit, I thought,

22:51

right, I'm going to show

22:52

you.

22:53

And I passed my surgical fellowship

22:56

and he put a bet on with

22:58

the sister. So I

23:00

wouldn't pass it. So when I got back, I

23:02

insisted that he give the sister the £20. It

23:04

must have been a real shock to the system to

23:07

encounter these kinds of attitudes, having had so

23:09

much support from your dad and then through

23:12

medical school. How did you deal with that? Well,

23:14

just, you know, I just felt, well,

23:16

I've got to change this. Wanting to change

23:19

it and realizing I've got to get in there, demonstrate

23:21

that I'm good at what I do and then I can change

23:23

how other people behave. By 2010,

23:26

while you were working at St Mary's Hospital in

23:28

London, you had a light bulb moment during

23:31

a talk given by the epidemiologist Michael

23:33

Marmot. So he said health

23:36

was determined less by medicine and more

23:38

by social inequality and access

23:41

to education. How did that change

23:43

the course of your own work? The light bulb moment

23:45

was thinking, well, rather than be interested

23:48

in this tiny part of pregnancy, I

23:50

need to think about women across the life

23:52

course. And I think sometimes

23:55

in the past, well, in the past, let's say women

23:57

were viewed as maternity. So, for example, when I

23:59

came back, I was a child. out of medical school, women disappeared

24:01

at the age of 50 from view because they

24:03

were post reproductive then. Whereas

24:06

now I'm conscious of the fact I'm probably going

24:08

to live longer as a post reproductive

24:11

woman than I was reproductive and therefore

24:13

understanding what can be done to improve

24:16

the health of women in their latter life as well

24:18

is really important because although women

24:20

live longer than men, they spend

24:23

a disproportionately larger interval

24:25

of their life in poor health and

24:27

that can be avoided to a certain extent.

24:30

In 1992 you gave birth to your daughters Jenny and

24:32

Claire. You've said that on their arrival

24:34

you felt both lucky and guilty. Why

24:37

guilty? They were born prematurely at 33 weeks

24:39

and they had to go to special care for a

24:41

month and I had a real insight because

24:44

I knew an awful lot about obstetric complications

24:46

and neonatal care but I knew nothing

24:48

about being the mother of these

24:50

little vulnerable things that would just weight a bit less

24:53

than four pounds and were all wired up

24:55

for sound. I used

24:57

to get hysterical if they were moved and

24:59

I didn't know where they were. So you felt that fear

25:01

even though you wanted to do what was going on. Absolutely.

25:04

How did that change your practice after

25:06

that as a doctor? Well sometimes

25:08

I think we focus on so many issues

25:11

and problems in pregnancy that we forget the purpose

25:14

is to have this baby. When I was

25:16

still doing regular obstetrics I used to insist

25:18

that we're on the war ground that we always went and

25:20

visited the babies that would have

25:22

gone to special care and I always wanted to know

25:24

from the junior members of my team so what

25:27

happened to Mrs X's baby and how

25:29

are they today? And I used to get quite

25:31

furious as they didn't know because I would think well

25:33

I know what that was like to have

25:36

a baby up on special care and to not really understand

25:38

what's happening to them. What's

25:40

your next piece of music Leslie? Well

25:43

this track is for Jenny and Claire,

25:45

my wonderful twins. They are simply

25:47

the best. The best thing that's ever happened to

25:49

me and this is Tina Turner

25:52

singing Simply the Best. We play

25:54

it at birthdays and at celebrations and

25:57

we always put it on if we're having

25:59

a party. You think

26:01

we can. Better

26:06

than all the rest. Better

26:11

than anyone.

26:15

You know I love that.

26:19

I found your heart. I

26:24

hang on every word you say.

26:28

Careful. Tina

26:31

Turner and the best. Leslie

26:33

Regan you've held a number of important roles during

26:35

your career and last year you were appointed as

26:37

the Government's first ever women's health

26:40

ambassador for England. Now why did you want

26:42

that job and what did you hope to bring to the role? I

26:44

had to apply for it because it's the first

26:47

time that the Government in this country

26:49

have prioritised women's health. I just

26:51

thought it was an opportunity that was so

26:53

important to try and reset the dial

26:56

and provide women with better

26:58

access to services. And I believe

27:01

that the health hubs that I've been promoting in the

27:03

last 15 months since I've had that ambassador role

27:06

are really going to be able to do that and the GHSC

27:08

team, the Women's Health Strategy team, they are lovely. They

27:10

are so committed. Obviously the incurable

27:13

optimism that I mentioned in the introduction must

27:15

come in very handy when you're dealing with policymakers

27:18

and trying to effect change. But

27:20

I know that you've described yourself as a bit impatient.

27:23

Oh I'm terribly impatient. How do you manage that

27:25

then? Well it's a question of persistence.

27:28

You've mentioned about me being impatient and I am

27:30

because I think oh come on, we've

27:32

got to get on with this. But you just have

27:34

to keep going. And

27:37

I think it's so, you know, I've got this big thing about

27:39

contraception which I've been talking about for years and years

27:41

and years that really this is just an own

27:43

goal that we don't do this properly and

27:46

we don't look after women who've got painful

27:48

heavy periods which incapacitate them. I

27:51

just keep going back and saying well, and then also

27:53

doing the personal story. Well how would

27:55

you feel if the woman in your life

27:58

or the people that you've been with, care

28:00

for in your life who are female, how would

28:02

you feel if they had these problems and they met

28:04

these barriers? Do you think you receive

28:06

less understanding from men when you're having

28:09

this conversation? No, I don't actually. And I think that

28:11

if you can have that conversation and ask them

28:13

that question and personalise it,

28:15

they can be very receptive. But you have to

28:17

frame it in the right way. You have to frame it in the right way, but that's

28:20

the whole power of storytelling, isn't it? And

28:22

we've got to find a way that this becomes something

28:24

that they want to be part of. It's

28:26

time for some more music, Leslie. Your seventh choice

28:29

today. What are we going to hear next and why? Very

28:32

few people have ever heard this, and it's a track

28:35

called Metamorphium. And it's

28:37

a eulogy, if you like, to my brother Martin, who

28:40

died 30 years ago in

28:42

a freak swimming accident. And it was written

28:44

by his friends, Owen Jones and

28:46

Pete Nelson. We

28:49

were also devastated when he died, which was about nine

28:51

months after the girls were born. And

28:53

I was absolutely distraught about the fact

28:55

that they weren't going to have the opportunity to

28:58

get to know this very quirky younger

29:00

brother of mine. He was the complete opposite

29:02

of me. He used to tease you about it, I think. Yes.

29:05

And he was quiet, whereas I'm very

29:08

noisy. He's incredibly bright. He

29:11

went to Oxford to read

29:13

English, which of course he did brilliantly well. And

29:16

we both ended up graduating the same

29:18

year. And then we shared a flat together in

29:20

Kenteetown for some years. So he was travelling

29:22

when he died? He was travelling. He was with friends

29:25

in Indonesia. And I just remember,

29:27

it gives me a sort of cold

29:29

feeling comes over me of picking up the phone on

29:31

a Wednesday morning, I remember this, and

29:34

being told that he died in this accident. And

29:36

then my parents who were separated then, but they

29:39

were both distraught. And so I just think I

29:42

just got worn out by the whole thing. He was very

29:44

sad. This song's about him though. Yeah,

29:47

the song's about him. Sorry. And also the

29:49

artist, I mean, Shakespeare in the Bible,

29:52

a very familiar phrase. Yes. Well,

29:54

and I didn't know until I contacted

29:56

Owen Jones some weeks ago, saying,

29:58

would it be okay if I played this track that

30:01

Shakespeare and the Bible, their band, were

30:03

named because they were always trying

30:05

to work out which eight discs he would take

30:08

and which one he would save when you'd given

30:10

him Shakespeare and the Bible. Well,

30:12

how perfect. So it's called Metamorphim.

30:15

This was the code word for the crossword

30:17

solving group that

30:19

my brother had with his great friends, childhood

30:22

friends of his. And every year he used to compose

30:24

crosswords and give them to them as a gift.

30:27

And they used to spend the rest of the year trying to work

30:29

them out. They used to call him Planet Brain, as

30:31

you will hear in the track.

30:32

I filled them

30:33

all with letters,

30:36

but I don't understand.

30:38

You'll have to

30:41

explain it someday. I never

30:46

was a bit,

30:49

but no one said it

30:51

to me.

31:06

Shakespeare and the Bible with Metamorphim.

31:09

Leslie, you say that you've got no plans

31:11

to retire. What keeps you working in this field?

31:14

Where does your personal satisfaction come from? There's

31:17

always another challenge. And also the

31:19

other reason is that my daughter say that I would be

31:21

impossible if I retired. So

31:25

what are you like on holiday? What do you like when you don't

31:27

have a holiday? Well, you know, I'm good on a sort of an adventure

31:29

holiday or a sightseeing holiday.

31:32

I'm a bit twitchy on the beach. This doesn't

31:34

bode well, does it? I

31:37

can be a bit twitchy on the beach, but then I'll find

31:39

a project. I'll find a project. But I mean,

31:41

are you practical? Would you be able to start

31:44

by knocking up a shelter and all of that? No,

31:46

no, no, I think I'm quite practical. Yes. I used

31:49

to do a bit of DIY. I'm not so good with a drill.

31:51

There's no drills on the other side. No,

31:54

no, no, no, I'd be quite practical. And I can always

31:56

think of how to repurpose stuff that I find.

32:00

Jettison. Absolutely yes I'll be going around

32:02

picking stuff up and seeing what I can do with it. Well

32:04

we'd love to hear one more track before you go. What's

32:06

your last piece?

32:07

This is a part

32:09

of Mozart's clarinet concerto.

32:11

It

32:11

just gives me such hope that

32:14

when I've sort of got too many deadlines that

32:16

I've actually managed to get to the end. I'm

32:18

not very good at saying no to people and sometimes

32:21

I start the day and I think oh my

32:23

goodness how on earth are we going to get to the end of

32:25

this? The balls are going to drop or

32:27

the plates are going to crash and I just think

32:30

this piece of music takes me to a

32:32

place where it's just so calm

32:35

and so positive and

32:37

it just soars away and I think it's a

32:39

little bit as well about the patience that I've

32:41

looked after and who are so thrilled

32:43

when they finally have a live take

32:45

home baby.

33:47

Mozart's clarinet concerto in A major

33:49

performed by Carl Leister with the Berlin

33:51

Philharmonic conducted by Herbert von

33:53

Carian. So Leslie Regan I'm

33:56

sending you away to the islands. I'm giving you

33:58

Shakespeare and the Bible and you can take

34:00

one other book. What would you like? Well

34:03

if I may I'd like to take the complete works

34:06

of George Eliot, the most effective

34:08

feminist and a beautiful beautiful

34:10

writer. You can also have a luxury item,

34:12

what do you fancy? I just wondered whether it was

34:14

going to be possible for me to archive, access

34:17

an archive to the proms because one

34:19

of the things I've really enjoyed doing in my time

34:21

is singing in a choir and that

34:23

wonderful feeling of the Albert Hall that

34:26

I had the first time I sang The Handles

34:28

from Sire was just so wonderful. Well Leslie

34:30

I'm devastated to tell you that we can't give

34:32

you the archive of the proms because you've got your

34:35

eight discs here. I mean of course you can

34:37

sing along. Well if

34:39

I can't have the proms and I just want to sing to these

34:41

eight then I think I would like

34:44

to ask for a non-ending supply

34:46

of Marmite. Ah now you're talking.

34:48

It cures everything. Lashing

34:51

of butter and toast. Okay well I'll even

34:53

throw in some butter for you. Thank you very much. I'll get this

34:55

long life as I can find. I don't know how long it

34:57

lasts but enjoy it while it lasts. Marmite

35:00

on toast it is. And finally

35:02

which track of the eight discs that you've shared

35:04

with us today Leslie Regan would you rush

35:06

to save from the weeds if you had to? Well

35:09

I found this so challenging to find eight

35:11

discs but I have no

35:13

doubt and no hesitation about which one I'd save.

35:16

I would have to save simply the best because it

35:18

just epitomizes my girls. Professor

35:20

Dame Leslie Regan thank you very

35:22

much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

35:24

Thank you so much it's been such a pleasure.

35:40

Hello I hope you enjoyed my conversation with

35:42

Leslie and I'm sure she'll find a project to

35:44

keep herself busy on the island. We've

35:46

cast away many experts in women's health

35:48

including the midwife and campaigner

35:51

Edna Adern Ismail. Leslie's

35:53

childhood allergy consultant Dr.

35:55

Bill Franklin is in our archive too along

35:58

with the epidemiologist

35:59

who brought a...

35:59

her light bulb moment, Sir Michael

36:02

Marmot. You can find these episodes

36:04

in our Desert Island Discs programme archive

36:07

and through BBC Sends. The studio

36:09

manager for today's programme is Emma Hart, the

36:11

assistant producer was Christine Pavlovski and

36:14

the producer was Paula McGinley. The series

36:16

editor is John Gowdy. Next

36:18

time my guest

36:19

will be the singer and actor Lea

36:21

Salonga. I do hope you'll join us.

36:32

It

36:36

was about 2.30 in

36:38

the morning and every

36:41

time in that moment of waking I

36:43

would see

36:43

the man standing in the corner. It

36:47

here, Aunt Ganny, see

36:49

her three. She was just walking, non-responsive,

36:53

without talking, without blinking. This

36:55

seemed like something in your table.

36:58

Terrifying real-life encounters

37:00

with the sleeping actress. What

37:03

I saw in that house frightens

37:05

me and I wish I'd never seen

37:07

it.

37:08

Listen on BBC Sends, if

37:11

you dare.