0:01

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm

0:03

Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert

0:05

Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask

0:08

my guests to choose the eight tracks,

0:10

book and luxury they'd want to take

0:12

with them if they were cast away

0:14

to a desert island. And,

0:16

for rights reasons, the music is

0:18

shorter than the original broadcast. I

0:20

hope you enjoy listening. My

0:42

castaway this week is the theatre director,

0:44

Jenny Seeley. She's been a driving

0:46

force in British theatre for almost 30 years

0:49

as the artistic director of Grey Eye,

0:51

the deaf and disabled-led theatre company. During

0:53

her tenure, Grey Eye has generated a

0:56

sea change in attitudes towards the range

0:58

of people we see on our stages

1:00

and screens, and towards those working behind

1:02

the scenes too. Her first

1:04

steps into the arts were taken in

1:06

ballet shoes. She lost her hearing at

1:08

the age of seven, but her dance

1:10

teacher helped her realise she could still

1:12

pursue the discipline she loved without hearing

1:14

music. It was a revelation that she

1:16

says saved her. And music

1:18

has been a key feature in many

1:21

of her productions. She has directed opera

1:23

as well as plays and co-created the

1:25

spectacular Paralympic Opening Ceremony for London 2012,

1:28

where for one night only, Professor

1:30

Stephen Hawking joined Dance Duo Orbital.

1:33

She says, I've never been someone

1:35

who's afraid of taking on new

1:37

challenges. I'm still excited about what's

1:39

next and how we're going to

1:41

approach it. And I've come to

1:43

realise that I personally am a

1:45

part of what's next. Jenny

1:47

Seeley, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Hello,

1:50

and thank you for having me. We should

1:52

also welcome to the programme your friend and

1:54

British Sign Language interpreter, Jenny Draper, who's going

1:57

to be signing throughout our interview. Jenny, thank

1:59

you for... Joining us, hello Jenny ceiling

2:01

you at Gray. I would usually start

2:03

with an audio description of yourself. Some

2:05

would tell me why that is and

2:07

and how would you describe yourself today.

2:10

Odor the scripts this is said and

2:12

it makes service and that are accessible to

2:14

blend of a sudden per pupil that

2:16

is also part of a closed his coauthors

2:18

As far as i'm concerned with as

2:20

it orbits is guys are always with me

2:23

is i have messy her a half

2:25

a pint glass on my hair to always

2:27

max was guy wearing stay imo or

2:29

as of blues that my son cause the

2:31

others are pursuing a dreamer last year

2:33

i always have my sickness a cool about

2:36

it my clothes also i missed us

2:38

for cause. Yes your sign

2:40

name in sign language refers to

2:42

that I think you're ample bosom,

2:44

a massive no time to had

2:46

him animals and that your phone

2:48

without up and down but also

2:50

it's a sign for be unpleasant

2:52

so I like to think I

2:54

am presence but I had to

2:56

the room breasts first somewhat have

2:58

some it. So

3:01

well consider Program. He'd been the

3:03

Artistic Director Jenny of Gray Eyes

3:05

since nineteen Ninety Seven. Solicitous. You

3:07

haven't seen a Grey Eye production.

3:09

How would you sum up the company's

3:11

outlook? It's. A Radical. It's

3:13

political and hearts it's whether lose

3:15

to the it's it's so good

3:17

sister and we're closed up to

3:20

stay within the road. people on

3:22

the stairs innovators that he stood

3:24

around suffer non disabled people so

3:26

we apps and silos the perception

3:28

of what we can and cannot

3:31

do. You can be sharing your

3:33

discs with us today. Jenny tell

3:35

me a bit about your relationship

3:37

to music. And. A citizen

3:40

us. My relationship with Move

3:42

works so ad hoc. In

3:44

Obama, here's something on television or the

3:47

road So on a cool oh that's

3:49

the knows I mean I don't suddenly

3:51

like they did not call actually reserve

3:53

split his music. That. Span of

3:55

A so I'm a sucker for the top

3:57

says because the I can hear that. I

4:00

will like a piece of music. A bit

4:02

of a curly hair the first time and

4:04

it makes. Been watching First Choice today Jenny

4:06

and why are you taking it with he

4:08

to the islands. The Messiah

4:10

is massive amount and. List.

4:13

Of come to school or my friends

4:15

were in the choir on I felt

4:17

really last it's own the place that

4:19

that's horrible say well we have to

4:21

say a my put the heir to

4:23

the what walk down the line A

4:25

when they came to be. Looked. At

4:28

me were oh. I'm of

4:30

the code on down the line my whole

4:32

tires that are not. Man, I'm really caught

4:34

him either. The don't

4:36

have my son some says mommy please

4:38

boat sank pluto part I love it

4:40

so that up to the kids off

4:42

to sit looks com I still be

4:45

in the cause illness I don't make

4:47

a sound like lip sync pull the

4:49

words thought I was in the classes

4:51

the last long as I didn't say

4:53

a word but it might be with

4:55

my firms are not with most important

4:57

than the one of my biggest pluses

4:59

a my whole life I have a

5:01

poodle phones son hurt by signing away

5:03

from since one of the well I

5:05

hope. That you'll sing along to this track

5:08

on your islands. Jenny thought if one of

5:10

my school I can just sit in my

5:12

heart out a lawyer but it would hurt

5:14

business and it creates a thought I might

5:16

run and hide with much a good thing.

5:20

Let's let it out. This

5:22

is the Hallelujah! Chorus: some

5:25

Handel's Messiah. The

6:08

Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah

6:10

Somebody sixteen choir conducted by

6:12

Hurry Christopher's. Jenny. He grew

6:14

up in quite a large family in nothing

6:17

and me, the eldest of four sisters, must

6:19

have been quite busy household. For.

6:21

Or the I'll I'll prove that but

6:23

sitting around the kitchen table a token

6:25

I was thought about it when I

6:27

was six a pilot did actually become

6:29

my whole world will notice six till

6:31

I were often Middlesex parlors as a

6:34

long time Baylor barley was my so

6:36

the growth couldn't have to here who

6:38

died I just follow the person fun

6:40

because sometimes founded on August people attacked

6:42

turn to to a little better get

6:44

rid of all other the a man

6:46

is but a lot or time try

6:48

to play catch up on I for

6:50

a. Fireball coping mechanisms so much

6:52

the opposite of I like to myself, I've

6:55

not, I know what's been going on so

6:57

to follow the conversation in a group you

6:59

have to develop those skills a young age

7:02

More kind of things were no suffer from

7:04

an Eco terrorists, are Muslim low support from

7:06

their rights as weird as as at oldest

7:08

make so sick of hard to hard of

7:11

hearing aids but my who may because it's

7:13

a box when oil that's my friend or

7:15

my mom. A flop is the bags put

7:17

to earn the had too much. my folks

7:20

at the thing about maps. And. The

7:22

spring from Taiwan. I say after maps

7:24

and I remember school the first

7:26

time going to school with this

7:28

thing and dispose of afar and

7:31

I said i'm tunneling Doctor who.

7:33

Have. A separate not

7:35

bad. He recently spoken about

7:37

you mum on stage in your one

7:40

woman place else raising. Did spending so

7:42

much time thinking about your relationship bring

7:44

any new insights for I have learned

7:47

to thought my mom although says up

7:49

power tools My mom. as

7:52

with mom not just saw school but

7:54

through all of our phones co ltd

7:56

so loud and disposed of freeze them

7:58

to discuss stuff they would never discuss

8:01

with our own family. So she

8:03

gave them a safe space. But I

8:05

learned that she was fine in a fragile

8:07

sense of the word because

8:09

she was hiding so much about

8:11

the real her. And

8:13

I realized that her relationship with my

8:16

granny, she just wanted to be the

8:18

best daughter in the whole world. You

8:20

could never do any wrong. Any

8:23

of us were naughty or whatever.

8:26

Don't be like that in front of your grandmother. She

8:29

was terrified of granny finding any

8:31

other excuse to judge her because

8:34

of the circumstances surrounding my birth.

8:38

I want to explore that more in a bit.

8:40

But for now, I think we've got to make

8:43

time for your next disc, if you wouldn't mind.

8:45

What's it going to be, Jenny Sealy, your second

8:47

choice? It is, yesterday, by the Beatles. And

8:50

because when they finally started

8:52

doing song lyrics with the

8:55

LPs, Vicki and my sister

8:57

Jackie, but mainly Vicki, would sit with me

9:00

and play a song that I liked the tune of

9:02

to death. And

9:04

she would sit there with her finger, pointing to

9:06

every word. So I got the sense of the

9:09

rhythm. I got to know the

9:11

words so that I, like, healed people could

9:13

sing along to the sound. And

9:15

I was also in a folk group at school. Oh, my

9:17

God, when I think about it, it was so embarrassing. I

9:19

played the triangle. Only I

9:21

could mess up a triangle. And

9:24

we did do yes there. I remember doing it at

9:26

our assembly when we were in the fourth year at

9:29

school. But it's about remembering

9:31

me and Vick, learning the

9:33

words together. And she did

9:35

that for many, many more songs after that. Yesterday.

9:42

All my troubles seemed so

9:44

far away. God

9:47

looks as though they're here to

9:49

stay. Oh, I

9:52

believe in

9:54

yesterday. Suddenly. Mm-hmm.

10:08

The Beatles and Yesterday. Jenny,

10:11

tell me about your dad, Bob.

10:13

He was the lone man in

10:15

a household of five women. My

10:17

dad was incredibly quiet. Really

10:19

was a man of few words

10:21

and quite horrified that he had

10:23

these four daughters and this loud,

10:26

very glamorous woman in his life.

10:28

He was sick behind the newspaper.

10:32

But he was also good fun. He'd push

10:34

comes to the shop, especially around a holiday

10:36

on the beach. He would play. But for

10:39

a lot of the time, he worked really, really

10:41

hard. He had a photography

10:43

business and I think you need to help him out,

10:46

couldn't you? Some of

10:48

our summer jobs, well, certainly the key

10:50

and I, our summer jobs were at

10:52

the photography company, retouching pictures, the

10:54

negative, making sure everything was there. I loved

10:57

it. I found out later that Bob

10:59

wasn't my real dad. He adopted me

11:02

and he knew who my real dad was.

11:05

What and how did you find out? When

11:08

dad died, it was the night of his

11:10

funeral and a few weeks

11:12

before we found that they're marriage certificate and

11:15

Vicki worked out that they got married after I was

11:17

born. I just remember

11:20

sitting after the funeral and

11:22

somewhere from the gut of

11:24

my stomach, this question, bubbles

11:26

through me up into my mouth and

11:29

it came out. I just

11:31

had mum with dad, my

11:33

real dad. That's a very

11:36

simple question that came out of

11:38

my mouth that absolutely transformed. Everything

11:41

that I thought was me is

11:43

not necessarily me. So

11:45

your biological father was your

11:47

dad, Bob's best friend. And

11:50

he was someone that you knew well. They had

11:52

a business together. I knew well. I

11:55

know well. Dabbist Aisir, handsome man, a

11:57

good father, a robust, a massive family.

12:00

parts of family, Rob and his wife Peg,

12:02

they would look after my sisters while my

12:04

dad took me to hospital to be, you

12:07

know, examined to find out what had

12:09

happened. And did they know, Johnny? His

12:12

children didn't know until last year when

12:14

I told them all. He knew, his wife

12:16

knew, everybody else knew. Oh they

12:19

knew, they all kept a secret. Rob, Pob,

12:21

Peg and Pat. Peg

12:23

had the most brilliant laugh but

12:26

my respect for her now is, wow,

12:29

through the roof. So I was

12:31

born in a home for our married mothers in

12:33

Marston Green and my granny

12:35

took a long time to accept me.

12:38

And that breaks me because I loved my

12:40

gran. So I'm furious with her

12:42

now that she treated my mum like

12:44

that. Let's have some music,

12:46

Johnny. What's your third choice? This

12:49

is Teenage Kicks by The

12:51

Undertones and it's

12:54

because it's proud mum time. It's

12:57

because Jonah, my son, who when he was 13

12:59

or 14, played this on the

13:02

guitar and sang it with his best

13:04

friend Sebastian Bassett on the drums, part

13:06

of Hockston Hall's music evenings

13:10

and, ah, what's

13:12

in your child's form, love?

13:14

There's nothing beats it and he

13:16

was good. The Undertones

13:19

and Teenage

13:21

Kicks by

13:23

The Undertones and

13:48

Teenage Kicks by The Undertones. cleaner

14:00

to come in. We're going to jump out

14:02

behind the bookshelves. Not

14:04

a very good idea actually but anyway. So we were

14:06

practicing our jumping out and he pushed me and I

14:08

banged my head and bam! It really

14:11

hurt and I got home and when my mum

14:13

was talking to me I couldn't hear. I

14:16

was like oh oh my god. Went

14:18

to the hospital, had loads of tears, went to

14:20

the Royal Ian O's at Folk Hospital, so in the

14:23

end you know deaf and

14:26

I go to school and they said

14:28

let's grow our head harder here and I was

14:30

like my mum brilliant. Short

14:32

hair fab. The deaf school,

14:35

the Ewing School for the Deaf in Nottingham

14:37

was relocated to Derby and I wanted to

14:39

be with my friends and

14:42

the doctors just said don't let a sign

14:44

keep her talking which obviously I am talking

14:46

so that's carried on. It's

14:48

about deaf children not looking deaf or

14:50

being allowed to be deaf. So it's

14:52

taken me most of my life to

14:55

really embrace my deaf identity because I

14:57

just not, you have to teach it

14:59

to yourself but not growing

15:01

up with signing I had to go

15:03

out with lip reading. So I had to teach

15:06

myself to lip read. I would always sit next

15:08

to someone who had good handwriting. He says I

15:10

could just copy their handwriting. My first day at

15:12

big school oh my god it was

15:15

a history lesson. His teacher

15:17

was called Mr Bennett and he

15:19

had a very untidy beard and

15:21

moustache and I could not see

15:24

his lips and I was looking and

15:26

I was looking and I just couldn't I can feel

15:28

it now the sweat pouring down

15:30

my back thinking I

15:32

don't know how to do this. So for

15:35

a lot of my little life when teachers

15:37

talked about me being hard of hearing I

15:39

thought it was my fault that I wasn't

15:41

trying hard enough to hear. I thought oh

15:43

but it was my maths teacher John Furber

15:45

who was a phenomenal. Furber

15:48

was really good at making sure that

15:50

I sat on the front row making

15:52

sure I could always see him. He

15:54

made maths okay so I felt

15:56

safe being in his form but for all the

15:58

other classes oh my god. I had

16:01

to go away and do a lot of studying

16:03

on my own. I'm so self-taught So

16:05

to this day it breaks my heart how thick I am

16:07

about a lot of things The

16:09

people that you're not thick. I know I'm not but

16:11

I feel it inside Angry

16:13

for all those lessons. I've never

16:15

heard angry Jenny

16:17

it's time for disc number four the

16:20

first time ever I saw your face

16:22

by Roberta Flack and

16:26

This song has a bit of a journey

16:28

a Lovely

16:30

lovely deaf man called Tony died. He was one

16:32

of the first people to know of HIV

16:35

related illnesses and he

16:37

wasn't out to his family neither was his

16:39

boyfriend But he asked our

16:41

friend Iona Fletcher to sign this song for

16:44

his boyfriend David to say how much I

16:46

loved you So this is a funeral So

16:49

half the audience congregation knew Tony

16:51

and David were in a relationship

16:53

Half of them his family didn't

16:56

and I only signed it. It was breathtaking

17:01

Emotion, we we were wiped and

17:04

it became the inspiration and the

17:06

starting point For a play

17:08

that I went on to create called signs

17:10

of the diva. It's beautiful You

17:45

Roberta Flack and the first time ever

17:47

I saw your face Jenny

17:49

Seeley after school you went on to

17:51

study dance and choreography at Middlesex Polytechnic

17:54

So you were working towards a life in the arts.

17:57

How well supported were your ambitions in

17:59

that? field at school. Did you get

18:01

any careers advice? Oh, careers

18:03

advice was she'd be a librarian. You know,

18:05

because libraries are quiet, and deaf people are

18:08

quite not. We can't hear

18:10

how much noise we make, whether we make a noise

18:12

when we eat. I mean, my son, when

18:14

I'm at home, he says, Mum, are you having no idea

18:16

how noisy you are when you're getting up in the morning

18:18

to get off the work? But I

18:20

don't put my hearing aid into the moment I leave

18:22

the house. So when it was about what the hell

18:24

was I going to do? Mum said, well,

18:27

why don't you think about dancing

18:30

or acting? And so I wanted to

18:32

actually do acting at Middlesex Poly, but

18:34

they wouldn't let me because

18:37

I was worried about how I hear the

18:39

cues. All this thought down, those

18:42

different cueing systems, you know, someone's touching

18:44

her behind me, that's my cute camera

18:46

with that line. All deaf people know

18:48

the whole script inside out. They're not

18:51

stupid. We get on with it

18:53

and work it out for ourselves. One of

18:55

the actors on the drama part of the

18:57

course had to do a directing module. So

19:00

she asked me whether I'd be in Diero

19:02

Fones Woman Alone. I was for lunchtime reading.

19:04

And I did that. And all the

19:06

third years came along and the second year to know

19:08

what this deaf girl could do. So it was pink.

19:11

I was good. I was really

19:13

good. I remember feeling so proud of myself,

19:16

but maybe I could go on the journey

19:18

of being an actor. Jenny, it's time for

19:20

disc number five. It's Middlesex Poly days because

19:22

the night by Patrick Smith

19:25

and it was our getting ready on a

19:27

Friday night. We have a bottle of wine

19:29

or some cans in my friend's room to

19:31

take us back to him. She had the

19:33

biggest bedroom and the messes bedroom. And

19:36

we'd all crowd in there doing our hair

19:38

back home and putting on various different outfits.

19:40

And this is before I knew anything about

19:42

the signed song. It was sort

19:44

of gesture. But we

19:46

made up our own signs for this

19:48

song and we would go into the

19:50

night filled with joy and energy

19:53

as I got hammered. Because

20:27

of the night, Patty Smith. Jenny

20:30

Seeley, in 1997, you got the job

20:32

as artistic director of the Grey Eye

20:34

Theatre Company. Now, one of your biggest

20:36

creative career moments was co-directing, along with

20:39

Bradley Hemings, the London 2012 Paralympic

20:42

Opening Ceremony. The evening was

20:44

the most astonishing creative spectacle.

20:46

There were wheelchair acrobatics, performers

20:49

on six-metre sway poles, floating

20:51

statues. How did it all

20:53

work putting everything together, and what were your

20:55

favourite moments from that night? I

20:58

have about a million memories. There were so

21:01

many things, you know, having Lizzie Ammer, who's

21:03

sadly now a laughterist, but you

21:05

know, a London stabled woman of colour with

21:07

Saturday night singing around what I am, with

21:10

Caroline Parker signing it. There are

21:12

so many memories. Me too, Stephen Hawking, I'm

21:14

praying to dear God, he didn't ask me

21:17

anything about the briefest of time because I

21:19

don't understand it like at all. But

21:22

he was the most twinkly man,

21:24

the most generous man, who said,

21:26

absolutely, I'm there with you and for

21:28

you. We have some amazing people.

21:31

I think Ian McKellen insisted on getting a pair of

21:33

boots to match the rest of the cast as well.

21:35

Oh, he said, Jenny, what's an

21:37

expert? And I said, oh, it's spasticos, autisticos,

21:39

it's equalities. But why am I not there?

21:41

I found a stone wall, you know. I

21:44

want one of those coats, I want DMs. I'm

21:46

part of this. I'm like, thank

21:49

you. Yes, you are. And he was,

21:51

uh... I think we'd better have

21:53

some music then. So, you, Jenny Sealy, what's next? It

21:56

is spasticos, autisticos. And

21:58

the blockheads now will... When we did

22:00

that was John Kelly who was the

22:02

lead front man, a wheelchair user, activist

22:05

and he was a big part of

22:07

reasons be cheerful and spastic as autisticers.

22:40

John Kelly singing Ian Dewry's Spasticas

22:43

Autisticus from Grey Eye's stage production

22:45

of Reasons to Be Cheerful. Jenny

22:48

you've recently been touring with your one

22:50

woman play Self Raising. Now it's autobiographical

22:52

and along with exploring your family background

22:54

and who your birth father was, the

22:57

play also touches on a very difficult time

22:59

that you went through. You were 16 years

23:02

old and you were sent away to live

23:04

with a doctor. What happened?

23:06

It was my godmother's cousin's husband who

23:08

was a neurologist and a very powerful

23:10

man and so

23:12

I went to live with him because he said that

23:14

he could untrap my auditory nerve. The

23:16

story was that an auditory nerve had been

23:19

trapped by you bringing your head. He was

23:21

the only medical person who came up with

23:23

the reason why I was deaf so

23:25

you latch onto that when a doctor tells you something

23:28

you believe it. And I think you know that not

23:30

to be true now right because you've had scans. Yeah

23:32

it's not true. I found that out when I was

23:34

49 when I had a

23:36

brain scan but I was telling this brain scan

23:38

person that I have a trapped auditory nerve and

23:41

he tried to tell me my job, no you've

23:43

got brain injury that's why you're deaf. You know

23:45

any parent wants the best of their children so

23:47

I never ever blame my mum or dad but

23:50

it was you know an absolute

23:53

classic example of a very powerful

23:55

man taking absolute advantage

23:57

of a vulnerable 16 and a half years of brain

23:59

scan. girl who can't hear on

24:01

the telephone so

24:03

it was fairly grim. His

24:06

treatment sashes within the afternoon when his

24:08

wife would have a sleep downstairs he'd

24:10

take him upstairs. I mean other

24:13

stuff happened sometimes in

24:16

a West End theatre

24:18

up in one of the banqueting rooms. I

24:20

had the most beautiful blue dress on that's

24:22

all I remember was I looked beautiful but

24:26

the security guard chucked

24:28

it out thank you security guard. So

24:31

there's lots of instances like that. I

24:34

still I think if I'm truly

24:37

honest I haven't unpacked all I think

24:39

I probably need to write all of

24:41

this. It's that horrible thing. When

24:44

I've talked to other deaf people that's the thing about not being

24:46

able to hear if someone comes into your room and takes a

24:48

hearing aid like you hear nothing. It's fantastic

24:50

when you've got a baby or those

24:53

foxes doing whatever they're doing outside. I

24:55

don't know what that sounds like but

24:57

people say oh Jenny the foxes outside

24:59

are fat terrible but

25:02

not being able to hear and not being

25:05

able to hear on the phone I mean

25:07

I hate that. How

25:09

long were you in the house Jenny and

25:11

how did you get out? I was about 12 months

25:13

which is for some people they have it for so

25:15

many years of their lives. Mine

25:19

was 12 months. So yeah though

25:21

that's a long time. How did

25:23

you get out of the situation?

25:25

I was ill and came home and

25:28

I sort of said something. I blurted it

25:30

out that the doctor was to examine me.

25:33

My dad's back.

25:37

I don't actually have to say too much else so

25:40

they went down I got my stuff. I

25:43

mean dad wanted to go to court but

25:45

he was such a powerful person. And has

25:47

your own experience of surviving something like that

25:49

been a motivating force

25:51

behind your work to get

25:53

justice? For other people to make the world

25:55

fairer and better to to make people able

25:58

to use their voices and speak up. I

26:01

mean I think it really is this

26:03

whole thing about violation and

26:06

disregarding and disrespect and all

26:08

of that dirty horrible

26:10

rasp still absolutely.

26:13

Jenny, let's take a break and

26:15

go to some more music. This is the

26:18

seventh choice today on your list. What

26:20

are we going to hear next? It's

26:22

a song that probably not a lot

26:25

of people know and we commissioned it

26:27

for John Kelly who was part of

26:29

reasons and Chas Jankel and the Bloches

26:31

to write it and it came out

26:33

of all of

26:35

ours absolute devastation but after

26:37

the euphoria of 2012 that

26:40

opening ceremony be

26:42

the saviour because we're sexy. We were

26:44

up there with the gods, we were

26:47

equal, suddenly everything was stripped away from

26:49

us. The independent living fund was gone,

26:52

they put a cap on access to work so

26:54

I'm only allowed as many hours with Jan

26:56

or my other interpreters. You

26:58

know, they are there on months when I can't

27:00

have access because we haven't got the money. So

27:02

it's about come on please, please.

27:06

We are not a child to give us

27:08

equality. It's second incident that injury, had it

27:10

been alive, would have worked with us on.

27:12

It can't be right, it must be wrong. It's

27:16

about the stripping of our human

27:18

rights. It's complicated in red

27:20

sakes and it couldn't be done without

27:22

a simple plan. Keep

27:24

the pressure up, keep

27:26

the body moving, I'm

27:29

a loving pup. The

27:32

matter of my entry, over

27:34

40 years ago, when

27:37

expectations were so high and crazy, I

27:40

had no soul. If it's all that you

27:42

might think must be wrong, I'm

27:46

not going to do it. If

27:51

it can't be right, it must be

27:53

wrong. John Kelly, Chas Jankle and the

27:55

Blockheads are the cast of Reasons to

27:57

be Cheerful. Jenny Seeley, you've

27:59

been a great writer. for more than 25 years

28:01

and you have said that part of you

28:03

runs Grey Eye on fear. Fear of disabled

28:06

artists being out of sight, out of mind

28:08

as far as the industry is concerned. What's

28:11

your assessment of the landscape that

28:13

disabled artists are making a living

28:15

in and working in today? It's

28:18

a whole series of a few steps

28:20

or wheels forward and

28:22

a hundred back. I

28:24

sort of struggle with this question because

28:26

we have been making some fantastic inroads.

28:29

At the Globe they've got Anthony

28:31

Cleopatra with a huge daffkaff. Yes.

28:35

But at the same time there are

28:37

people who are creeping up saying

28:40

I can play Richard III and it's

28:42

like hang on a minute. Sorry to

28:44

interrupt. This is your expression for a

28:46

non-disabled actor kind of performing as an

28:48

disabled role. You know the world out

28:51

there thinks that actors should be without

28:53

playing anybody. Absolutely I get that. And

28:55

people say Jenny you want your cake and eat

28:57

it. I said too right. I do. Because we

29:00

actually have not had a full cake yet. We've

29:02

been given slivers. And I'm

29:04

damned if we do slivers anymore. I want the full

29:06

cake and I want more. So I

29:08

do want for my artists and they're

29:10

not married but the daffa disabled community

29:13

to play the roles that are for

29:15

daffas disabled characters. But also a whole

29:17

plethora of other roles until

29:19

we have absolute parity. So

29:22

for you what does best practice look like

29:24

in terms of casting? You said you want

29:26

parity. How will you know when you've got

29:28

that? Best practice. I've daffa disabled people in

29:30

the room when they're casting. I always cast

29:32

the best person for the job. Their

29:35

physicality, their disability, their empowerment.

29:38

That is part of who they are. Can they act?

29:40

Yes. Brilliant. And if they're rubbish but they

29:43

don't get the job. Jenny

29:45

we've talked a bit about casting and it's

29:47

my turn now because I'm about to cast

29:49

you away to your desert island. What

29:51

sort of island are you hoping to encounter? Oh

29:55

my island is completely and

29:57

actively accessible. That would

29:59

be the number one. priority and warm and nice

30:01

sea for me to swim in. I swim

30:03

all year round but I like the warm

30:05

sea. What will

30:07

you miss the most from home? Oh

30:10

Jonah. Your son. Oh my baby he's

30:12

the most beautiful young man. He is

30:15

my best production and I think I

30:17

would miss my Frank. He's a lovely

30:19

kind man and he sings a nice

30:22

song to me every day. He's lovely.

30:25

All right Jenny Seeley, one more track before we send

30:27

you off to your desert island. Your final choice today,

30:29

what's it going to be? My

30:31

last song is Days by Kirsty

30:34

McCall for many reasons. Danny

30:36

brought me my first iPod connected to

30:38

these things called covenants which you put

30:40

behind your ear, put your hearing aid

30:43

on T-suit and the first song that

30:45

came up was Days by Kirsty McCall.

30:48

I just shoved my head under the

30:50

pillow and bawled my eyes out. He's

30:52

given me 40 song lyrics,

30:54

40 of my favourite songs, put them on an

30:56

iPod and finally I was like hearing people I

30:58

had an iPod. Yes they just thought it. But

31:01

it's one of those songs

31:03

that I wanted to sound worthy but

31:05

I do seriously thank the universe of the

31:07

day for my family, my friends and my

31:09

work. I have had a blessed life

31:11

that every day there is always something to

31:14

say thank you for. The thanks for the

31:16

days, absolutely. Hello.

31:53

Kirsty McCall and Days. So

31:55

Jenny Seeley, it's time to send you away to the

31:57

island. I'm going to give you the Bible and the

32:00

complete works of Shakespeare to take along

32:02

with you, you can also have another

32:04

book. What would you like? Oh this

32:06

was so hard. I've

32:08

fallen on my store walk which

32:10

is the complete works of Armistead

32:12

Mopin. I love

32:14

those books. Tales of the City. They

32:17

are my to go to when I'm feeling

32:19

messed up. I just sit in bed and

32:21

read them. I know them off by heart.

32:24

It's my security blanket. Oh that sounds like

32:26

a very necessary companion on the island. And

32:29

you can also have a luxury item to make

32:31

life more enjoyable or for sensory stimulation.

32:33

What have you gone for? I

32:35

did toy with a canvas and a paintbrush

32:38

but given the fact that both my ideas

32:40

of photographers and I am deeply rubbish, it

32:42

might be an opportunity for to hone my

32:44

skill as a photographer. But you know I

32:47

make my own diagram of course. The smell

32:49

of photographic development fluid. Oh my god it's

32:51

my childhood. I'll give you the full kit.

32:53

It's all yours. Thank you. And finally which

32:55

track of the eight that you shared with

32:57

us today would you rush to save from

33:00

the waves first Jenny? That's

33:02

brutal. Worst question goes

33:04

last. I

33:07

think it would be a hallelujah chorus

33:09

because I have to try and really

33:12

practice all those notes. That

33:15

would be a nice vocal challenge. Oh

33:17

yes a lot of singing on this island please. As

33:19

loud as you like. Jenny Seeley thank

33:21

you very much for letting us hear your desert

33:23

island discs. Thank you for holding

33:25

me so beautifully. Hello

33:39

it was a lovely chat to Jenny and

33:41

I hope she's very happy on her island

33:44

singing away to her heart's content and taking

33:46

lots of photos. There are more than 2,000

33:49

programs in our archive which you can listen

33:51

to. We've cast many theatre directors away

33:53

over the years Trevor Nunn, Jude Kelly

33:55

and Adrian Noble. All those programs are

33:57

available if you search through B. ABC

34:00

Sounds or on our own Desert

34:02

Island Discs website. The studio manager

34:04

for today's programme was never Miss

34:06

Syrian. The production coordinator was Susie

34:08

Roylence and the producer was Sarah

34:10

Taylor. ABC

34:30

Sounds or on our own Desert Island Discs

34:32

website.