0:01

BBC Sounds, music, radio,

0:03

podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren

0:05

Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs

0:08

podcast. Every week I ask my guests to

0:10

choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd

0:12

want to take with them if they were

0:14

cast away to a desert island. And

0:17

for rights reasons, the music is shorter

0:19

than the original broadcast. I hope you

0:21

enjoy listening. My

0:46

cast away this week is the

0:48

director and writer Greta Gerwig. This

0:50

year, Barbie made her the first

0:52

woman in cinematic history to have

0:54

the sole director's credit for a

0:56

billion dollar blockbuster. The film

0:58

takes the titular doll on a

1:01

fantastical, philosophical journey that's a love

1:03

letter to Hollywood's golden age and

1:05

both a celebration and critique of

1:07

all that Barbie herself represents. Greta

1:09

was born in Sacramento, California, where

1:11

she grew up with big passions,

1:14

everything from fencing to ballet. She

1:16

initially dreamed of studying musical theatre

1:19

but first found a claim acting

1:21

in indie films so understated there

1:23

was sometimes called mumblecore. And

1:25

then she went behind the camera. Next

1:28

there was Lady Bird, inspired in part

1:30

by her own naughty childhood about a

1:32

teenage girl dreaming of moving to New

1:34

York to make art with a capital

1:36

A. The film was nominated for five

1:39

Oscars. Little Women followed,

1:41

meticulously faithful to its 1860s setting

1:43

but contemporary in its focus. It

1:46

was another huge success, earning six

1:48

Oscar nominations and one win. She

1:51

says, I think young Greta wouldn't believe it.

1:53

I think she'd be proud that I found

1:55

a voice as a writer and filmmaker. I

1:58

always wanted to but I wasn't always. I

2:00

was certain that I could, that I was worthy

2:02

of it. So I hope she'd be proud. Greta

2:05

Gerwig, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank

2:08

you so much for having me. This is

2:10

a big honor. We're thrilled

2:12

to have you. So Greta, you were in

2:14

the eye of the storm this year in

2:16

what many regard as the cultural phenomenon of

2:18

the year, Barbenheimer, the simultaneous relief at

2:21

the cinema of Barbie and Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer.

2:23

What did it feel like to be caught

2:25

up in that moment? Honestly,

2:28

I mean, it was such an extraordinary moment

2:30

of when it was released and came into the

2:32

world. And then there was this overwhelming

2:35

sense of everyone's going to the

2:37

movies again. I don't know,

2:39

for me, so much of when Noah Baumbach and I

2:41

wrote the script and what was the dream

2:43

of making it was really

2:46

this hope of everyone being

2:48

in cinemas again. And

2:51

that was because we wrote it during,

2:54

we started really writing it in March of 2020. And

2:57

that was just, there was no movies.

2:59

We weren't gathering. And I

3:02

kind of thought, well, if we ever do this again,

3:04

let's make the most banana

3:06

grams thing that let us get away

3:08

with that you would want to be

3:11

together for. I know that, as well,

3:13

Barbie was somewhat forbidden fruit for you

3:15

as a kid. My

3:17

mom wasn't so into Barbie for

3:19

certain moms would be like, I

3:21

don't know if this is a good example

3:24

of womanhood or the body type

3:26

and everything. She was less

3:29

excited about that. But I got hand-me-downs from

3:31

girls in the neighborhood where I was growing

3:34

up. And so I got

3:36

a lot of pre-love dolls. Although, my mom, I

3:38

will give her credit. She did give

3:40

me a proper doll for

3:43

Christmas in a box. She relented.

3:46

And then I destroyed her. Time

3:49

for your first disc, Greta. What have

3:51

you chosen? OK. My

3:54

list is extremely musical-heavy, because that's

3:56

the truth of who I am.

4:00

One is a chorus line, the

4:02

original cast recording. And I like these original

4:04

cast recordings that you can feel the room.

4:07

It's less pristine as a recording, but it's

4:09

more – you

4:11

can feel the sweat almost,

4:13

which is lovely. And

4:16

this is the kind of opening of all

4:18

of the dancers auditioning to be in this

4:21

musical. But I loved it for my whole

4:23

life. And I had this sort of like

4:26

yearning to be part

4:28

of something. God, I hope I get it. Like

4:31

I felt like I was born with that yearning.

4:34

It was just endless for me. I

5:03

hope I get it. From

5:09

the musical The Chorus Line by Marvin

5:12

Hamlisch and Edward Clevan, performed by Dan

5:14

Pippen and a Broadway cast with The

5:16

Chorus Line Orchestra. Greta Gerwig,

5:18

you were born and brought up in Sacramento

5:21

in California. Your dad Gordon worked

5:23

for a credit union. Your mum Christine

5:25

was an obstetrics and gynecology nurse. You've

5:28

described them as culturally ravenous

5:30

and as artists without being artists.

5:32

How did they share that creativity

5:35

with you? Well, I mean,

5:37

there was a record collection in my

5:40

house, which is where honestly a lot of things come

5:42

from. It was lots of different stuff, but it was also

5:45

– it was

5:47

like Steve Martin's stand-up album and stuff like

5:49

– it was just this connection to

5:51

other things like music and comedy and theatre.

5:54

We had recordings of plays, which they used

5:56

to put on records, and then

5:59

they would take everything that there was. I mean,

6:01

there was a symphony in Sacramento, which we went all the

6:03

time. It was like a lot

6:05

of like, let's go to every, absolutely everything

6:07

there is to offer in Sacramento. And

6:09

then my dad had a couple of work trips to

6:12

New York and I went to New York and I

6:14

have very formative memories. There was almost a version of

6:16

this list that had, I thought,

6:18

42nd Street. And it must have been 1990, 1989,

6:21

1990, I was about five. The rush

6:26

tickets, you're always in the front row because,

6:29

you know, nobody wants to stay straight up. And

6:32

I was small enough that I remember just

6:34

standing when they did We're in the Money

6:36

and they dance on those giant coins. I

6:38

couldn't believe it. So I felt

6:40

like they gave me all this access and

6:42

then they also just kept allowing for it.

6:44

Like they were like, she's interested and let's

6:46

keep going. I don't think they ever thought

6:48

I was actually going to do it. It

6:51

was, it was a hobby. It was a

6:53

kind of, you know, a richness that

6:55

you could add to your life, but it wasn't what you're

6:57

going to do for a living. Yes. Well, because it

7:00

seems we just didn't know anyone who did it for a

7:02

living. So at what point did your performance gene

7:04

kick in? You're born in 1983, youngest of three. You

7:08

know, were you the type of kid who

7:10

would be putting on shows for the family,

7:12

for your parents, for your siblings? Yeah. Yeah.

7:14

No, I was always putting on shows. There's

7:16

a look on your face,

7:19

Greta Goer. I can only describe as rueful.

7:21

Now as a parent, you are like,

7:24

oh man, I really made my parents

7:26

sit through just, yeah, I

7:28

was constantly, and I was also doing it all the

7:30

time on the playground

7:33

or at school. I was trying to

7:35

organize other kids into reenacting

7:37

plays I'd seen. I remember, I

7:41

must've been in kindergarten, explaining

7:43

to all the kids what the story

7:45

of Star Light Express was and that

7:47

I would be playing Rusty and that

7:49

I was like, no, no, we're all

7:51

trains and we're being played with and

7:53

we're the steam engines, but there's these

7:56

electric trains that are coming. They were

7:58

like, what are you talking about? talking

8:00

about and I was like, and we're all on roller skates,

8:02

but I know we're not. So we're going to have to

8:04

pretend to be. And I think I

8:06

had a sort of force of will that

8:08

made people just sort

8:10

of go with it in some way. I

8:13

couldn't think of anything more that I

8:16

wanted to do than organize

8:18

fantasy play. That was like

8:20

what I did. We've

8:22

got to make room for the music. I

8:25

have a second choice. Tell me about this

8:27

disc. Yeah, this is a pinball wizard by

8:29

the who. And I will say

8:31

even of my rock and

8:33

roll choices, they're pretty musical

8:35

theater. I guess kind

8:38

of just me as a child, like the part of

8:40

me that was like too much and too crazy. It

8:43

was like that kind of rock

8:45

and roll of that time period was like, there

8:47

is no too much. You can go for it.

8:49

This never fails to just

8:52

make me excited. Like when you hear some of those

8:54

chords, you're like, yeah. Pinball

9:24

wizard by the who. So graphic over.

9:26

You've described yourself as a child of

9:28

big emotions. Intense, I think is

9:30

another word that you've used. Tell me more

9:32

about that. Tell me more about you when you

9:34

were young. I

9:37

had intense loves and passions. And

9:39

I mean, when I was young,

9:42

I wanted to be a dancer.

9:44

I studied ballet. I would

9:46

have spent seven days a

9:48

week there for as long as I could have done it. I

9:50

had to be sort of kept from

9:52

things. My

9:54

mom was worried, I think, that I was

9:57

too I would get too obsessive

9:59

about things. on a thing. Yeah

10:01

and I think I realize

10:03

now that that kind of fixation is

10:05

not not

10:07

everyone feels that but I had

10:09

that sort of level of fixation.

10:12

Sadly ballet didn't work out for you but your

10:14

mum persuaded you to take up fencing and you

10:16

became one of the best in the state. I

10:19

did I did I

10:22

really I went for it

10:25

because I was intense and because I had

10:27

all this kind of drive I think sports

10:30

were a very good place

10:32

for me to put that because I think

10:34

there's a real structure in sports that allows

10:36

for that and it was sort of my

10:39

competitiveness was fine. So that was that

10:41

was always in you as well. Yeah

10:43

I got that from my grandfather he

10:45

was he'd say well

10:48

I'll play around a cribbage for you to find

10:50

out who takes out the trash and they'd be

10:52

like well I'd all do it and I think

10:54

I just kind of got that competitive and you

10:56

know I'm still that way. What about your relationship

10:58

with your mum

11:00

Christine she was very new to all of these activities.

11:02

What was the relationship like between the two of you

11:04

how did you describe it back then? I

11:07

was very stubborn she was very stubborn she's

11:09

really you

11:12

know extroverted and funny and outward and so

11:14

am I and I think there was like

11:16

14 to 18 was an extremely

11:18

stressful time. You know you don't come to

11:21

the breakfast table wearing your pajamas you come

11:23

fully dressed because if you came in your

11:25

pajamas she'd say well that's your way of

11:27

letting me know that you're not ready for

11:29

anything life has to bring to you today.

11:31

It was an expectation. It

11:33

was a shot out of a cannon.

11:35

It was like every day it was

11:37

like and and my dad who's more

11:39

um somewhat more internal and like

11:42

she'd sign him up for the bridge

11:44

club she's very good at getting everyone

11:47

activated. Sounds like she would have made a good director. She

11:49

would have made a good director. She would make a lot

11:51

a lot of good things. She's one

11:54

of the truly great characters of

11:56

I think I would say

11:58

the 20th century. She's

12:00

just fabulous. So

12:03

she was scheduling all of the whole family,

12:05

but many many activities for you. Why do

12:07

you think you needed so much stimulation as

12:09

a kid? I mean I had ADHD, I've

12:11

been diagnosed as an adult, but I didn't know there

12:13

wasn't... I don't know, maybe testing

12:15

wasn't as prevalent. I think I needed a lot

12:18

of high level of engagement. Did diagnosis give

12:20

you a new perspective on all that?

12:22

Yes, it was like oh all of these

12:24

behaviours fall into a pattern? Oh,

12:26

like I almost felt silly that I

12:29

hadn't recognised that before, but I was

12:31

like oh that makes sense. I

12:34

think that's why I love directing so much and being

12:36

on film sets so much, is because

12:38

it's long hours and it's

12:40

all encompassing and it's sort of however much

12:42

you can ask of yourself to do, there's

12:45

always more. That gives me a sense

12:47

of calm. It's

12:49

time for some more music Greta. What's

12:52

next? Slay Ride

12:54

by Johnny Mathis. Johnny

12:56

Mathis, I love his voice. My

12:59

dad loved Johnny Mathis too. And

13:01

my dad and I have a tendency to break

13:04

into song and this

13:06

song has these sections that

13:08

are... They just keep going. You

13:11

can't believe that the song keeps going and

13:13

it's like... There's a section that's like, these

13:15

wonderful things are the things we'll remember all

13:17

through our lives. These wonderful things are the

13:19

things we'll remember all through our lives. Just here don't

13:22

say it. And you're like oh my god it's so

13:24

happening. It's like we went up and all

13:26

seven, we're still going. And I feel like it

13:28

has this almost like joy mania,

13:30

like there's something about it, where I was like

13:32

I love this song so much it makes

13:35

me just thrilled. There's a

13:37

happy feeling. It

13:41

will nearly be my

13:43

picture print by Maria

13:46

and I. These

13:51

wonderful things are the things we'll

13:53

remember all through our lives. These

13:56

wonderful things are the things we'll remember

13:58

all through our lives. Jingle

14:01

with wings in kindling room All

14:04

of this love, love of our clan

14:06

together with you Slay Ride,

14:08

Johnny Mathis with Percy Faith and his

14:11

orchestra Greta Goigg, you went to an

14:13

all-girls Roman Catholic high school and

14:15

when you were about 12 in 7th grade,

14:17

you had a formative moment A teacher

14:19

pinned a short story that you'd written

14:22

up on the board in front of

14:24

the whole class It was based on

14:26

a real life experience you'd had during

14:28

a maths test What exactly happened? That's

14:30

so embarrassing, it's still embarrassing It

14:33

was the first time I'd changed classes and

14:35

there was all these people and lockers and

14:38

it just, I felt intimidated and anyway,

14:41

we were taking a math test We

14:44

were taking a math test and I

14:47

had to go to the bathroom but I didn't know and

14:50

then I just was like one of those awful moments

14:52

where I had peed my pants in

14:54

7th grade and I was up during

14:56

a math test for placement and

14:59

the thing that happened which was actually so

15:01

lovely is a girl across from me saw

15:04

what was happening, I was just, I was then I

15:06

started crying I mean even telling it now, I just

15:08

feel so sad and I

15:10

was like ashamed and she

15:13

had a sweatshirt and she took it up

15:15

and she sort of gestured,

15:17

wrapped it around herself so no one sees

15:19

and she gave me her sweatshirt and then

15:21

I sort of ran out of

15:23

the room and it was this

15:25

moment of just like, just kindness and

15:28

then I, you know,

15:30

it was just like I was just so

15:32

embarrassed I was like, was it an office?

15:34

Wow, it's something that you chose to write

15:36

about that because you're emotional just talking about

15:39

it now, your eyes are glossy you're like,

15:41

you know, it's quite brave Yeah

15:44

well, so I wrote about it in 8th

15:47

grade I think it was one of the

15:49

first personal essay assignments and

15:51

she pinned

15:53

it on the board and I thought I was

15:55

just turning it into her and it would just be for

15:57

her and then it was all of a sudden

16:00

board and then everybody knew that it

16:02

happened to me if I'm remembering

16:04

correctly. I think I wrote about it as if it was

16:07

funny but I still was

16:09

like just

16:11

so embarrassed by it. In

16:13

a way I think at the time I tried to

16:15

turn it into something funny very quickly and... To

16:19

take this thing in. Yeah, probably. Yeah. But

16:23

you know, write what you know. Yes,

16:25

exactly. That's the beginning of that.

16:28

Greta will find out what happened next in a minute

16:30

but it's time to go to the music. Your fourth choice

16:33

today for what it's going to be. Okay,

16:35

so this is... and the grass

16:37

won't paint no mine, but Elvis Presley. I

16:40

didn't really love Elvis. Elvis wasn't

16:43

my person but a

16:45

friend of mine said, wait,

16:47

you gotta listen to it. And I remember

16:49

this song was like when it clicked for

16:52

me what people were hearing in it.

16:54

I don't know that anything beats like a

16:57

friend or someone you respect saying like try

16:59

it again. You've missed it.

17:01

Try it again. Listen

17:04

easy. You

17:06

can hear God call.

17:10

Walking back through my

17:12

street. I

17:18

run through your

17:22

hair softly falling on

17:26

my face as if

17:28

I dreamed. And

17:32

the time will be... And

17:36

the grass won't paint no mine, Elvis

17:38

Presley. Greta Gerwig, after high school, you

17:40

applied to a number of colleges to

17:42

study musical theatre and you didn't get

17:44

in. How did you handle a

17:46

rejection? I started comedy not

17:49

that I was the best at comedy. It

17:51

was just comedy was... even

17:53

if you weren't good at comedy, they always need

17:55

a straight man to have other people be

17:57

funny around. So you responded to

17:59

the rejection by diverse? Yeah, that's right. I was

18:01

like, now I'm gonna do this. And I think

18:04

at that point I knew that there were lots

18:06

of different ways to be part of the

18:09

world of show people. That's

18:11

what I liked. I liked actors, I

18:13

liked writers, I liked dancers, singers, directors,

18:16

production designers, lighting

18:18

designers, stage managers, people who

18:21

made things, people who created

18:24

these fictions. And I was like,

18:26

well, there's gotta be a spot for me in

18:28

all of this because it is a job. And

18:30

I think that was a big part of moving

18:32

to New York is how much I saw just

18:35

people who were normal,

18:38

everyday people who worked at it. And

18:40

that felt made it more like something

18:42

I could possibly do. So

18:45

you moved to New York and you studied

18:47

English and philosophy there, started acting in mumble

18:49

call films like Hannah Takes the Stairs. They

18:51

were low budget, mainly improvised. Do you think

18:53

of yourself as an actor as well as

18:56

a director today? Yes,

18:58

yes, because I think it's part

19:01

of who I am. It all

19:04

goes together for me. Like one of

19:06

the ways that I felt that I

19:08

learned how to write was by acting.

19:10

You know, you realize

19:13

why someone like Tennessee Williams

19:15

is a great writer when you try to

19:17

memorize it and act it. It's almost like

19:19

some door or this is my experience of

19:21

it, some door opens inside you and then

19:24

you're in a room where all the choices

19:26

are right. There's a ton of possibilities and

19:28

everything is alive. You will

19:30

see one said about acting. I sometimes can't get rid

19:32

of who I am. Yes, that's

19:34

definitely true. I wish I could more.

19:37

Some of it feels like I have and then

19:40

I see it and I'm like, oh, there you

19:42

are. I

19:44

love the duration with which

19:47

you said. Why is that

19:49

so terrible? I

19:51

guess it's sort of hope that someone else showed

19:54

up, you know, because then, you know, when you're

19:56

acting, you know, you feel you're in this imagined

19:58

world and maybe even have picture in your

20:00

head of someone who's other than you and then it's

20:02

just your face. I mean it's always

20:04

gonna be your face and you think oh god

20:06

there I go. Great,

20:09

it's time for your next choice. Tell us

20:11

about your fifth disc. What is it and why

20:13

are you taking it to the island? This is

20:16

Moon Age Daydream by David Bowie. I think,

20:18

this sounds wild, but I

20:20

truly think if David Bowie hadn't existed

20:22

I wouldn't have made anything.

20:25

I just I think he's so, I remember

20:27

when I heard him for the first time because for some

20:30

reason David Bowie wasn't actually in the record collection

20:32

so I didn't hear David Bowie until he

20:34

was in college. I was

20:36

like 18 and I couldn't believe

20:39

that it existed. Yeah it's like it

20:41

tripped some wire in me that I

20:44

had always been there and then I was like

20:46

oh there it is Bowie. And

20:49

that lyric keep your electric eye on me.

20:51

I didn't know what it meant but it

20:53

felt like what

20:55

is this and I wrote it on

20:58

everything. All my notebooks, all my everything

21:00

text anything I would write keep your

21:02

electric eye on me. It

21:04

had a weight. Keep

21:22

your electric eye on

21:24

me baby. Moon

21:39

Age Daydream, David Bowie. Greta

21:41

Goed, your partner is the screenwriter and

21:43

director Nora Baumbach and the two of

21:45

you often collaborate. You call Rope Barbie,

21:48

as you mentioned earlier. One of your

21:50

first collaborations was Francis Hart in 2012.

21:53

Now at that point, Noah was the

21:55

more established filmmaker and your contribution wasn't

21:57

always acknowledged. What was that like? must

22:00

have been annoying. Yeah, well,

22:03

now it's the opposite. He is now annoying.

22:05

And I are on the street. No, just

22:07

in terms of Francis in particular, people stop and

22:09

say, you know, I love Francis and it

22:11

means so much and they'll totally ignore him.

22:14

And then sometimes I'll be like, well, you know, actually

22:16

he directed it. He is actually,

22:18

I didn't direct that one. He directed it and

22:20

they kind of look at him like, oh, well,

22:22

good for you. But like, but it's funny because

22:24

I feel like now, and

22:26

he's like, it's okay, you don't ever have to do that.

22:29

You don't have to tell people. The

22:31

two of you are both pretty competitive, I think.

22:33

Are you competitive with each other? Yeah, but not

22:35

in the way that you'd think. It's more that

22:37

like he, I mean, he's so

22:40

disciplined and just. He's

22:43

always on the side. The only way I

22:45

know how to describe it is he's always

22:47

on the writing channel. I can

22:49

be on other people's channels and then it takes

22:51

me a while to sort of snap into it.

22:53

He can sit down and just start working. And

22:56

it's so amazing and totally annoying to me. But

22:59

it's not it's not really about outcome. It's

23:01

like his ability to just focus instantly. And

23:04

he could just he just sits down at the

23:06

dining room table and there's kids all around him

23:08

and he's just working and doing it. And

23:10

he does no problem doing it. You

23:12

obviously really inspire each other. But I wonder

23:15

how it went in 2020 because his

23:17

film Marriage Story and your film Little

23:19

Women were both up rosters in the

23:21

same category, weren't they? That

23:23

was actually lovely. That's that. That

23:25

was great. Because there was a celebration of both

23:27

of the things we were making. And that was

23:29

amazing. That was not. Did you get to

23:32

vote, though? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we voted. We

23:34

voted for ourselves. We

23:36

did check with each other. Yeah,

23:40

it felt so unique. Greta,

23:42

your breakthrough as a director came in

23:45

2017 with the film Ladybird. While you

23:47

were on set, you wore some talismanic

23:49

footwear. It had been given to you

23:52

by two other women directors. Who gave

23:54

you the shoes? This is

23:57

early. I'd worked with Rebecca Miller

23:59

and. And she said she

24:02

had a pair of shoes that were the wrong size

24:04

and did I want them? And they were these

24:06

like lovely British like

24:08

men's shoes like Like a brogue.

24:10

Yeah, brogue. Yeah. And

24:13

they were beautiful. And I was like, these were

24:15

my lucky shoes and they're great. I still wear them

24:17

all the time, especially on days when I was like,

24:19

I need luck on set. And then

24:21

I had worked with the director Mike

24:23

Mills and his wife, Miranda July. It

24:28

was weirdly the same thing. She said, I have these

24:30

shoes. They don't quite fit. Do you want

24:32

them? And I was like,

24:34

this is too crazy. Like if you wrote

24:36

this, no one would believe it. It's too

24:38

poetic. These women giving me the directors giving

24:41

me their shoes. I'm

24:43

pretty superstitious and

24:46

pretty mystical. I

24:49

don't know. I'm always I'm on the

24:51

lookout for signs. I'll say that. It's

24:53

two pretty clear ones there. Yeah,

24:55

I think that was sort of like if you're not

24:58

if you're if you don't do it now, don't say

25:00

that there weren't signs. You

25:02

were told. So if you don't do it, you're

25:05

denying what's being put in front of you. Greta, it's

25:07

time for your next piece of music. Disk number six,

25:09

please. What have you got for us? This

25:12

is Top Hat, White Tie

25:14

and Tails sung by

25:16

Fred Astaire from the 1935 musical Top Hat. For

25:21

a long time, I had a fantasy that I would have.

25:24

Oh, I mean, this is

25:27

from childhood, but like that I have a wedding

25:29

where a bunch of

25:31

men who were tap dancing.

25:33

This is so strange. Would tap

25:35

dance and wearing like full tuxedos.

25:37

Yes. As I walked

25:40

down the aisle and they'd be

25:42

singing and I want this for

25:44

you. I know. I

25:46

know. In my fantasy, there's not really a

25:49

groom. It's just me and

25:51

this like male generalized top chorus.

25:55

Exactly. And they said this and there is

25:57

like a reminder of that. invitation,

26:00

proof of mail. Your

26:03

presence requested the evening. It's moon on the

26:05

top half, the white tie and the tail. Nothing

26:07

now could take the wind out of my

26:10

sails. Because I

26:12

am a fighter, step on the ceiling. With

26:14

top half, white tie and the tail's all

26:16

I am. Putting on the top

26:18

half, tying up the white

26:21

tie. Rushing off my

26:23

tails, I'm. Gooting

26:26

up a shirt of rhymes, putting

26:28

in the shirt of dimes. Polishing

26:31

my nails. Top half,

26:33

white tie and tails from the film Top

26:35

Half, composed by Irving Berlin and performed

26:37

by Fred Astaire with Johnny Green and

26:40

his orchestra. Greta Gerwig, your film sets

26:42

are known by cast and crew alike

26:44

to be very supportive environments. I think

26:46

you referred to it as a bubble

26:48

of safety. How does that help

26:50

you creatively? I think people

26:52

make something better

26:55

when they feel safe. So I try to give them

26:57

that safety. And then I don't

26:59

want all of the ideas to be mine. I

27:01

certainly have ideas, but I don't want to clone myself

27:04

100 times or 200 times. I

27:06

want them to bring me things that I never

27:09

would have thought of, because that's the fun of

27:11

making movies is they're totally collaborative. I want to

27:13

see what I don't know yet. And

27:16

I want every person, once they're

27:18

on the set, to feel that they are the keeper

27:20

of the story, whether they're a PA or

27:23

an actor or Dolly grip. And

27:27

I think people need to feel safe in order

27:29

to make suggestions, because

27:32

I'm not going to do everything everybody suggests,

27:34

but that's OK. I mean, listen,

27:36

if you've got an idea of how to do this, let's

27:39

try it. It's time for your

27:42

penultimate disc, Greta. What's it going to be? So

27:45

this is the reprise or the

27:47

finale of Camelot in

27:49

the original cast recording with Richard

27:52

Burton. I chose

27:54

the reprise because it's sad. And

27:56

also, it's like at the end, his kingdom

27:59

is falling apart. everything's a mess and

28:01

he's recounting what it was and I

28:03

thought well for me my feeling on

28:05

the desert island recounting what it had

28:07

been don't let it be forgot there

28:09

you know once was a spot that

28:12

kind of ache of what's already

28:14

gone was part of it and Richard

28:17

Burton has my favorite voice of

28:19

all time where once it

28:21

never rained till after sundown

28:25

by 8 a.m. the morning

28:28

fog had flown don't

28:31

let it be forgot at

28:34

once there was a spot

28:37

for one brief shining

28:39

moment the

28:55

finale from Camelot by Frederick Lowe

28:57

and Alan J Lerner performed by Richard

28:59

Burton with the original Broadway cast and

29:02

the Camelot Orchestra Greta

29:04

Gerwig art sometimes comes from dark

29:06

and difficult places but the tone

29:08

of your work is generally hopeful

29:10

believe the cinema feeling that actually

29:12

people are good was that a

29:14

choice he made early on it's

29:16

not really a choice so much

29:18

as um I

29:20

think I must believe it you know obviously

29:23

there's very many things in the world that

29:25

are there's there's a lot

29:27

of obvious pain and everything else but

29:29

I I think I I

29:31

believe in people I'm not negative

29:34

about it all although I can

29:36

have melancholy about it but I

29:39

hope we we

29:41

find the best way to go

29:43

forward and we don't always obviously obviously but

29:45

um I do love people you once said

29:48

you like living in New York because I

29:50

like seeing people running into people I wouldn't

29:52

do well alone in the woods no this

29:54

worries me because of the data island I

29:57

know that's why this is so hard How

30:00

will you cope on the desert island do you think all along

30:02

the thing? This great is I

30:04

can really just try to memorize

30:06

all of Shakespeare, which I you

30:09

can you can do it

30:11

So that could just be you know that

30:13

could take years I keep you busy that

30:15

would keep you busy for a while Okay,

30:17

well, that's the plan more and more track

30:19

before you go your final choice today. What's

30:21

it gonna be? Okay? Well, this is ain't

30:23

got no I got life Nina Simone. I

30:26

can I think I'm attracted to voices

30:28

obviously I know I said Richard

30:30

Burton was the greatest but he Benina They're

30:34

all the greatest but Nina Simone is them The

30:37

pain and the joy in her voice is

30:39

both and I also thought given that I'm

30:42

on a desert island This is a sort

30:44

of celebration of what you you have and

30:46

not what's missing I

31:00

know Nina

31:23

Simone and ain't got no I

31:25

got life so great ago again.

31:27

I'm gonna send you away to the island I'm giving

31:29

you the Bible the complete works of Shakespeare and you

31:32

can take one other book of your choice Okay,

31:34

this was a torturous thing. But

31:37

the thing I decided on was the

31:39

complete works of Emily Dickinson she

31:43

Gets that, you know mortality and

31:45

loneliness and but then the joy

31:47

of Finding

31:49

things that you would only

31:51

find in in silence or emptiness Which

31:54

I think you probably need that voice on a

31:56

desert island You can also have

31:58

a luxury item Greta Yeah, I

32:02

just know I would go absolutely bananas if I

32:04

didn't have something to write with Any

32:06

anything any pen and paper is fine. I will write

32:08

on anything But there's a

32:10

brand called national brands that has green paper,

32:13

which apparently is good for your eyes I

32:15

don't know if that's true And

32:17

it has really narrow rule pages and

32:19

then I love smice and paper that

32:21

thin blue paper and that is a

32:23

true luxury Item and then pens. I

32:26

like different. I like the micron pens. Those are good Zero

32:30

point one is the thickness I like

32:32

I like I'm wasn't

32:34

expecting this level No,

32:37

I love it. You can't go to granular from

32:39

I'm loving it Okay, yeah, so that and then

32:41

if I could pick typewriter, it would be an

32:43

IBM Selectric 2 Oh, um, but I don't know

32:45

if I can plug anything in but typewriters like

32:48

if I can get a solar panel on one

32:50

of those Oh, yeah it's like the typewriter of

32:52

like Offices in the 80s

32:54

and when you plug it in and then

32:56

you turn it on it something that starts

32:58

like And it's

33:00

like it's a sound that makes me feel like

33:02

okay good now it's time to write and

33:04

I feel like I like switching between like writing

33:07

by hand and then writing on a Typewriter because

33:09

you can type I can type faster than I

33:11

can write by hand. Okay This

33:13

is gonna take me some time to pull together But

33:15

I can tell you that I'm I'm gonna

33:18

get you a selection of writing of

33:20

croutre-mant. Okay, great. Great. I can't wait

33:22

I'm so excited Great

33:24

going finally which one track of the eight that you've

33:26

shared with us today Would you rush to save from

33:28

the wave first if you have to? And

33:34

then you say I know I know

33:37

what I know oh I

33:42

mean, this is the truth is it's sleigh ride by

33:44

Johnny Mathis is what I'd say if it's

33:47

the truth Yeah, yeah, well

33:49

then in that case, I will

33:51

just say Greta Gerwig Thank you very much for

33:53

letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you

33:56

Merry Christmas Hello,

34:21

I hope you enjoyed my conversation

34:23

with Greta. May every day be

34:25

Christmas Day on her island. We've

34:28

cast away many film directors including

34:30

Gurinder Chaddha, Baz Luhrmann, Steve McQueen

34:32

and Steven Spielberg. The

34:34

studio manager for today's programme was Sue

34:37

Mayo, the assistant producer was Tim Banno

34:39

and the producer was Paula McGinley. The

34:41

series editor is John Goudie. Next

34:44

time my guest will be the food writer

34:46

and broadcaster Delia Smith. I do hope you'll

34:48

join us. To

35:04

know what it means to be Roman,

35:06

you need to look beyond the switching

35:08

gladiators. There are fresh stories

35:10

to be told from scattered

35:12

clues and new discoveries. I'm

35:15

Mary Beard and I'll be uncovering

35:17

these stories for Being Roman, a

35:20

new series for BBC Radio 4. There's

35:24

a young bride avenging the murder of

35:26

her parents and an emperor

35:29

flirting outrageously with his

35:31

nervous teacher. Listen

35:33

to Being Roman wherever you

35:35

get your podcasts.