0:00

I am Stephanie Eccles. This is

0:02

Dear Daughters of God, Episode 12,

0:04

Overcoming Abuse with the Understanding

0:07

of Divine Worth. We are inspired

0:09

by the true life experiences of those around

0:12

us. My name is Stephanie Eccles.

0:14

I'm an educator, counselor, school

0:16

administrator, and natural storyteller.

0:19

From my perspective as a member of The Church

0:21

of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints,

0:23

I share a variety of life experiences

0:26

that bring us hope and joy in our Savior,

0:28

Jesus Christ. Welcome,

0:31

dear daughters of God. I address

0:33

you that way because that's what you

0:35

are to Him. To our Heavenly

0:37

Father, you are dear.

0:42

We have a special guest today. Her name is

0:44

Sarah Mabey. I

0:46

met missus Mabey at Excelsior

0:49

Academy, and I'm gonna

0:51

introduce her to you and then I'll tell you

0:53

more about her as I know her.

0:56

Sarah grew up in Spanish Fork,

0:58

Utah, and she was there

1:01

until she's about 9 years old, and then her

1:03

father's job caused them to

1:06

relocate into North Texas.

1:09

So most of her childhood memories were

1:11

created there in the colony, about

1:14

an hour outside the Dallas Fort

1:16

Worth area. after

1:18

graduating from high school, Sarah

1:20

attended several colleges, including

1:23

Con County Community College

1:25

in Texas, then Brigham

1:27

Young University, and Salt Lake Community

1:29

College in Utah. She was

1:31

trying out many different majors, including

1:33

physics teaching home

1:35

economics and nursing. She always

1:37

wanted to be a teacher

1:39

and a mother since she was very little.

1:42

But she also had a passion for the hard sciences

1:44

like math, medicine, and engineering.

1:47

Every 1 of those attempts at a degree

1:49

fell through. She went through

1:51

many struggles trying to find her

1:54

calling. she stopped trying

1:56

for a degree for a while, and

1:58

she focused on herself and her family.

2:01

Eventually, she found Excelsior Academy

2:04

in Erta, Utah, and it felt

2:06

so right. She

2:08

was encouraged by a coworker after

2:10

being at Excelsior for a while to

2:13

go back to school and complete her

2:15

teaching degree. This coworker saw

2:17

the passion in Sarah behind

2:19

her anxiety that

2:22

she was experiencing, and

2:24

she told Sarah about Western

2:26

Governors University, an online college

2:29

where she was able to finish her teaching

2:31

degree. So 16 years

2:34

after graduating from high school, Sarah,

2:37

without having to attend classes away

2:39

from home, She now

2:42

has finished her degree and she's

2:44

now an intern in a full

2:46

day kindergarten classroom at

2:48

Excelsior Academy, honing her

2:50

skills under the tutelage of a master

2:52

teacher until there is an opportunity

2:55

for her to teach in her own classroom.

2:58

So welcome, Sarah.

3:00

We're so thrilled to have you. Thank

3:02

you. It

3:04

was at the end of my career

3:06

as the executive director of Excelsior Academy

3:08

that I met Sarah. She

3:11

was hired as an instructor. Many

3:13

schools call that, a

3:16

teacher's assistant or a TA. We

3:19

called them instructors. what

3:21

I remember about Sarah was,

3:23

that Sarah was often smiling

3:26

in the hall and she would catch my attention because

3:28

she often smiling, and

3:30

wearing purple. so

3:33

I asked her 1 day, you must

3:35

really like the color purple. And

3:37

she goes, I love the color purple. And I

3:39

said, I really like the color purple too.

3:42

So we have that in common. so we'd pass

3:44

each other in the hall and when I had my purple

3:46

on, we'd, make that connection

3:48

with our purple color on. Do you remember

3:50

that, Sarah? I do. That was fun.

3:53

Yeah. Sarah, that

3:55

came in the, just recent years in

3:57

your life, your experience at Excelsior. But

4:00

let's go back. Let's go back to

4:02

that time when you were

4:04

just starting out your adulthood,

4:06

and just dating and

4:09

finding trying to

4:11

find that man

4:13

to marry. Tell us about that.

4:16

Well, I when I was about 16,

4:19

I had met, a young man on the

4:21

Internet who lived in London. And

4:25

I've always had a lot of anxiety in my life,

4:27

and he made me feel special

4:29

because A man liked

4:31

me. Unfortunately, because

4:34

of my lack of self esteem, His

4:36

manipulative personality got

4:39

a grip on me, and

4:42

it wound up being a very toxic relationship.

4:45

I moved out to Utah

4:47

when I decided to attend Brigham

4:49

Young University. during that Time.

4:51

I was living with my aunt and uncle because

4:54

I was nervous about

4:56

living in the dorms, and I wanted to

4:58

be around family. And I went

5:00

with my cousins to a

5:03

steak pool party after

5:06

having gotten into a major

5:08

argument with my online boyfriend.

5:11

Okay. So you're this online boyfriend. You

5:13

were 16, and he's from London.

5:16

Yeah. Had you ever met him in person?

5:18

No. Were your parents

5:20

aware of this online boyfriend? They

5:22

were. And they were supportive

5:26

of my desire to

5:28

make friends, but they were nervous. And

5:30

I found out later That there was

5:32

a lot of prayer involved that

5:34

I would choose

5:36

to leave this toxic boyfriend

5:39

because they had noticed Changes

5:41

in my personality, but they also

5:44

wanted to be careful not to push me away

5:47

because I was a teenager. And,

5:49

obviously, I knew more than my parents

5:52

did because don't all teenagers. And

5:54

so they were trying to balance Being

5:57

caring, but also worrying.

6:01

I can see why they were worried. You

6:04

had conversations with the boyfriend

6:06

from London, had you had video conversations

6:08

with yet? Yeah. We use Skype

6:10

a lot and we're able to do video calls

6:13

through that. And how old was he?

6:16

He was, I think, about 4 years

6:18

older than me. I think he was about 20

6:20

if I'm remembering correctly.

6:22

Alright. So now you've

6:24

moved to Utah, and you're now

6:26

19. So your London boyfriend would

6:28

be about 23. You're

6:30

living with your aunt and uncle and attending

6:32

college at BYU.

6:34

Yeah. Well, actually, I had not

6:36

started attending college yet. It was

6:38

a month or 2 4 classes

6:40

started that I moved in with them to get settled

6:43

and everything. Okay. And

6:45

in the meantime, your parents are praying that

6:47

you'll break up with this man who lives. So

6:50

Oh, you were saying? I went I

6:52

was angry and upset at this

6:55

argument that I had with my boyfriend.

6:57

And I went to the pool

7:00

with my cousins, but then I kinda just

7:03

didn't wanna be around people. I was

7:05

there Physically, but I

7:07

was just kinda sitting in the pool

7:10

crying. My cousins were guys, and they were

7:12

like, okay. Whatever. She's being a girl.

7:14

And Went off to hang out with

7:16

their friends. and I was

7:18

just standing in the pool crying, and

7:21

this guy Came up

7:23

to me, and he was at least a foot

7:25

taller than me. Not that's hard. I'm

7:27

only 5 foot 1. But He was at

7:29

least a foot taller than me, and he comes and

7:31

he's looming over me. Hi.

7:34

Do you wanna come join my group? No.

7:40

Okay. And so he leaves.

7:43

About 2 or 3 minutes later, a girl

7:45

comes over. she's hey.

7:47

You look sad. You look like you need a friend.

7:50

Will you come join me and my friends? Okay.

7:53

A girl is safe. I can

7:56

go join her, and try and be sociable

7:58

at this? It was a 3 different stakes

8:02

come together. So there was a lot of teenagers

8:04

and young adults there. Oh, lots

8:06

of teenagers. So I followed this

8:08

girl back to her friend group, and what do

8:10

you know? That creepy guy

8:12

that was looming over me was there. Up.

8:16

It was her friend's brother.

8:19

And so we started talking, and I'm

8:21

a little bit panicking inside my head.

8:23

This Creepy guys looming

8:25

over me, and I

8:28

don't know. I have a lot of anxiety about

8:30

men in general because I think of

8:32

my situation with my,

8:34

boyfriend From London. From

8:36

London. Okay. but I was

8:38

like, okay. There's girls here. It'll

8:41

be okay. So we started talking,

8:43

and we found out that we had a lot in common.

8:45

We enjoyed video games. We enjoyed

8:47

anime. You and

8:49

this 1 that was 6 foot Yeah. Or

8:52

at least a foot taller than you. Yeah. He should've been about

8:54

6 foot 1. Yeah. Okay. And

8:56

he also had another friend with him. And

8:59

so the 3 of us started talking.

9:01

The girls eventually left, and it was me and

9:03

the boys talking ironically about

9:06

video games and anime. I've always

9:08

been 1 of the guys, though. We

9:10

started talking, and we decided to

9:12

Set up a time for us to hang out and

9:15

watch some anime and play some video games together.

9:18

So eventually, we set

9:20

that time, and, my boyfriend

9:22

was not very happy about that, that I was gonna

9:24

hang out With other men, he was

9:26

very protective and very possessive of

9:29

me speaking to anybody

9:32

that was not a girl. Lots

9:34

of red flags that I kinda

9:37

knew in the back of my head, but I

9:39

wanted to believe that this relationship was

9:42

Right? Because, he was British.

9:45

He had a nice accent. He was

9:47

cute. I fell for all the things.

9:50

But he had a toxic personality. I

9:53

hung out with them several times, and

9:55

we watched a lot of anime and played a lot

9:57

of video games together. then classes

10:00

started, And, we were

10:02

living in Sandy, and

10:06

I wound up getting into a dorm

10:08

In Provo at BYU. But

10:11

every single day after classes, I

10:14

would drive from Provo to Sandy

10:17

To hang out with these guys until 9 or

10:19

10 o'clock at night. Oh, how

10:21

did you manage that with the rigor

10:23

of BYU's classes. I

10:25

was young. I

10:28

don't know. I could never run

10:31

on 5 hours of sleep now.

10:33

But I was young, and I something

10:37

felt nice about these boys.

10:39

They were polite. They were gentlemen.

10:42

They didn't sexualize me

10:44

Like my online boyfriend did.

10:47

things really came to a head 1

10:49

day when I was walking back From

10:51

classes back to my dorm. I

10:54

had been really stressed about

10:56

my boyfriend and all his negativity and

10:59

possessiveness, and I knew

11:01

it wasn't right. We had broken up and

11:03

gotten back together several times.

11:05

And this is all while you're still driving

11:07

from Brigham Young University to be

11:10

in Provo to Sandy Which is about a 30

11:12

to 40 minute drive.

11:14

to hang out with these 2

11:16

guys. Yeah. You still have the London

11:18

boyfriend. Yeah. Yeah. I still

11:20

have the London boyfriend while I was having

11:23

a friendship, and it was completely platonic

11:25

with these 2 guys And

11:28

I was walking back from my classes to

11:30

my dorm 1 day, and I just

11:33

Couldn't go anymore. I

11:36

was walking through a parking lot and

11:38

I laid down. I couldn't walk

11:40

anymore. I was Exhausted physically,

11:43

mentally, emotionally, I laid

11:45

down and I said, I don't care if a car runs

11:47

me over. I'm just gonna take a

11:49

nap right here. Oh

11:53

my goodness. In the parking lot?

11:55

In the parking lot, it was it wasn't

11:57

a busy parking lot. It was, like, behind an

11:59

apartment complex, But it wasn't

12:02

exactly the best place to take a nap,

12:04

but I didn't care. I was

12:07

done. I

12:09

thought maybe something was wrong with me physically.

12:12

I didn't realize that the emotional

12:14

trauma could create

12:17

that physical Exhaustion.

12:19

I just knew that I was done, and I didn't

12:21

care what happened. I

12:24

laid there for I don't know how

12:26

long until somebody walked

12:30

by and saw me, and

12:32

I went Less

12:35

than responsive. They

12:37

were asking me questions. I was in

12:39

a fog. I was stressed. My

12:41

brain didn't care about anything. They

12:44

asked me if they could help me, if they

12:46

could I said I don't know

12:49

if they could take me to the hospital, and

12:51

I said I don't care. I

12:54

just stopped functioning.

12:57

Here. So they picked me up. They had

12:59

a friend who had a car, put

13:01

me in their friend's car, and drove me to the

13:03

ER. I

13:06

Why? My heart rate was very high

13:08

when I got to the ER. I don't

13:10

remember a lot of it though because I was,

13:13

I think so overstressed that my

13:15

body was just done. There

13:19

was nothing wrong with me physically that

13:21

the doctors could test for. They

13:24

sent in a social worker, And

13:26

at that point, I spilled everything

13:29

about my boyfriend

13:31

and the emotional and

13:33

mental and verbal abuse that

13:36

I had been going through. I

13:38

told them I wanted to break up with him,

13:40

And I'd wanted to for a long time,

13:43

but I had been so afraid to

13:46

because he told me he would kill himself if

13:49

I did. And I loved him. Despite

13:51

everything, I still loved him. And

13:53

I cared about him, and I didn't want

13:55

that. Up. He

13:58

said he would kill himself Yeah.

14:00

If he broke up with him. Yeah. And

14:03

the social worker Talked

14:06

to me for a little while, and she said that's a

14:08

very common, strategy

14:11

that manipulative people We'll

14:13

use to keep somebody in a relationship.

14:16

And she Convinced

14:19

me that I needed to do what

14:21

was better for me, and

14:23

that was his choice to make If

14:25

he was going to hurt himself over

14:30

my leaving. I

14:34

don't think I've told this story to anybody

14:36

in a long time. While

14:41

I was in the hospital, it was

14:43

only I was only there for maybe a few

14:45

hours, but I had Texted,

14:48

the 2 boys. Their names are Tyler

14:51

and Clint. The super tall creepy

14:53

1 is Tyler. And

14:56

Clive. Tyler and Clint. And

14:58

I texted them, and I

15:01

said, hey. I'm in the hospital. I'm

15:03

really not sure what to do, but I

15:06

won't be coming to Sandy tonight. And

15:10

Just as I was being released

15:12

from the hospital, they

15:15

showed up before my, Discharge

15:17

papers were completed. They appeared, and

15:19

the nurse came in and said, hey. There's 2 guys

15:21

here to see you. And I was like,

15:25

What 2 guys are here to see me? I

15:27

don't know any guys because You're

15:29

thinking Provo. I'm thinking Provo. Exactly.

15:33

And she's their names

15:35

are Tyler and Clint. They want to know if

15:37

they can come in and see you. They

15:39

came in, and they had brought me a teddy

15:41

bear and chocolate and

15:44

all the things nice guys Bring to

15:46

girls when they're upset. Oh. They

15:49

took me out to dinner. I

15:51

had shut off my phone after texting

15:54

them because my boyfriend

15:56

was trying to call me, and I didn't wanna

15:58

talk to him. I didn't know what I was gonna say to

16:00

him yet. I'm sure you

16:03

each weren't ready to face that at that moment.

16:05

Yeah. So they took me out

16:07

to dinner, and

16:09

we just Were.

16:13

We didn't talk about the situation. We

16:15

just existed

16:18

as friends. We went

16:20

back to my dorm afterwards

16:22

to watch a movie. It was

16:24

Robin Hood men in tights. They wanted

16:27

to watch something funny to help cheer me up.

16:30

And, after the movie, I was walking

16:32

them out to the car, and I Guess I

16:35

decided to turn my phone back on or something.

16:37

I don't remember why. But

16:39

as they were getting ready to leave, My

16:43

boyfriend called, and

16:45

I answered because I knew he was gonna be

16:47

mad. I knew he was gonna be maybe

16:50

worried about What

16:53

had happened and what was going on?

16:55

Where was I? And why didn't I answer his 700

16:58

calls? And Did

17:00

Clint and Tyler

17:02

know about the London boyfriend? Yes.

17:05

They knew about him generally, that

17:07

he existed. But I didn't

17:09

really talk a lot about him because

17:12

first of all, it's weird that I had a

17:14

boyfriend that I'd never met in person. Yeah.

17:19

I was a little bit embarrassed about it because

17:22

I think in my heart, I knew that it

17:24

wasn't a good relationship, but

17:26

I also didn't. Because of my

17:29

low self esteem, I

17:31

didn't believe that

17:34

anybody else would want to be in

17:36

a relationship with me. I

17:38

see. And he had manipulated

17:41

that and gotten me to believe that

17:43

I wasn't worth anything without him.

17:45

he made your initial belief of

17:48

believing you weren't valuable

17:50

enough for anyone to be in a relationship with you.

17:52

He only endorsed that in

17:55

your mind. Yeah. Yeah.

17:57

And now you are absolutely sure you

17:59

weren't valuable enough for with

18:02

you because that's exactly what he wanted you

18:04

to believe. Exactly. He was

18:06

really good at that emotional manipulation

18:09

And getting me to believe and

18:11

do what he wanted. Oh

18:14

my. He

18:17

even told me at 1 point that he

18:19

liked having power over people. And

18:23

I don't know why that wasn't A huge red flag

18:25

at the time, but I guess I was young

18:27

and dumb. so anyways, I

18:29

answered the call, And

18:32

he just starts verbally

18:34

reaming me. Where have you

18:36

been? What are you doing? Who are you hanging

18:39

out with? Why haven't you answered your calls?

18:42

All the things and I was just like,

18:44

I'm sorry. I was in

18:46

the hospital. I'm okay now.

18:49

I didn't give him any details yet because I didn't

18:51

I still didn't know what I was gonna say to him.

18:55

And I

18:58

collapsed to my knees in the parking

19:00

lot. The whole all of the

19:02

stress of it made me physically weak.

19:04

Oh, and Clint and Tyler were right there with you.

19:06

Clint and Tyler were still there. They were

19:09

in the car, but they hadn't pulled out yet.

19:12

And They saw me, and I

19:14

hung up the phone.

19:18

And they said, hey. Let's

19:20

go to Sandy. Tyler said, let

19:22

me get my dad to give you a blessing. Because

19:26

I didn't know anybody in Provo, and

19:28

I didn't know what to do.

19:30

Mhmm. My roommates We're

19:33

there, but I didn't really have a

19:36

friendship with them because of

19:38

the obsessive

19:40

nature of My toxic

19:42

relationship I didn't have a lot

19:44

of friendships. I see.

19:46

The London boyfriend wanted you

19:48

only for himself. Yeah. Yes.

19:51

Any free time that I had, I

19:54

needed to be on the computer or the phone

19:56

with him. No wonder

19:58

you were escaping to Sandy. Yeah.

20:02

It was it really was an escape. Yes.

20:05

So we got in the car,

20:07

And I was a mess. I was sobbing

20:09

and crying, and I felt humiliated crying

20:12

like this in front of these 2 awesome guys

20:15

Who were so kind to me and so

20:17

caring. And Clint was driving,

20:21

And I was a shaking mess. And

20:23

he's before we go to Sandy, I wanna go

20:25

somewhere else. My abused

20:27

brain thought, oh, no. They're gonna

20:29

kidnap me and murder me. Really?

20:34

But My

20:36

heart, my spirit said,

20:39

it's okay. Just go. Clint

20:43

drove Until he found

20:45

a temple. And we went

20:47

and parked on the temple grounds and

20:50

prayed and I cried Until

20:54

I had cried enough that I felt better.

20:57

And we had prayed enough, and I started

20:59

to feel better. And then

21:01

we drove to Sandy. We

21:04

went to Tyler's house, and

21:06

he went and got his dad, and his dad immediately

21:08

gave me a blessing. He didn't

21:10

really know what was going on. He just

21:12

knew that his son

21:14

brought a girl home, first of all,

21:18

And she needed a blessing.

21:20

So he just gave me I

21:23

think it was probably just like a general

21:26

blessing for peace. Of comfort.

21:28

Of comfort. You can see

21:30

you were distressed. I'm sure. Yeah.

21:33

My anxiety really peaked after

21:35

that. I slept

21:39

on A mattress in

21:43

Tyler's family's basement. I did not go

21:45

back To my dorm except to collect my

21:47

things. Really?

21:50

I was nervous to be

21:52

away from the boys. They

21:54

were so kind to me, and

21:56

they took such good care of me that

21:59

I didn't feel like

22:01

I could function Without

22:04

them, the next morning when I woke up,

22:07

I turned on my phone and

22:09

I had all these missed calls and voicemails

22:13

from my London boyfriend. as I

22:15

turned on the phone, he called again. On

22:18

JR. And I went upstairs into the kitchen

22:21

where nobody was and I answered

22:23

the call. You answered the call.

22:25

I answered the call. I was

22:27

dumb. Okay? And

22:30

I this

22:33

is how badly he had manipulated me.

22:35

I felt guilty that I

22:37

cheated, quote, unquote, on him

22:40

by having other friends

22:42

that were boys, By spending

22:45

the night, innocently spending

22:47

the night in

22:49

the home of

22:51

somebody else, of a boy. And

22:54

I answered it, and I

22:56

apologized. Oh. And

22:58

I Sarah. I

23:03

never understood how people could get

23:05

manipulated into these situations until

23:07

it happened to me. I

23:12

answered the phone, and I apologized.

23:15

He asked me if we

23:17

were still together. I

23:19

was gonna say yes Because

23:21

I was afraid to not have

23:24

what I perceived as his

23:27

love. As I was having this

23:29

conversation on the phone

23:31

with him, I didn't hear it,

23:33

but Tyler had come upstairs. My

23:36

back was to the staircase. And

23:39

he put his hand on my shoulder, and

23:41

I said, no. We're

23:44

not together anymore. And I hung

23:46

up the phone. Tyler

23:48

had given me that strength to

23:53

Say no and to get

23:55

out of that relationship. I deleted

23:57

my London boyfriend from Facebook,

24:00

from Skype. I

24:03

transferred servers on my video

24:05

game So that he would

24:07

not be able to contact me.

24:10

Thank goodness. Thank goodness.

24:12

And it was such a relief, but

24:15

also terrifying Because

24:17

I felt so vulnerable in that moment.

24:21

Mhmm. Because he

24:23

had infiltrated my mind

24:25

so badly that I did not Feel

24:27

like I was worth

24:30

anything without him. But

24:32

as soon as Tyler put his hand on my shoulder,

24:35

a part of me knew That

24:39

I was valued. That

24:41

somebody else cared about me. Somebody

24:44

else loved me. Oh,

24:49

That was a pivotal

24:51

moment. It really was.

24:55

My parents also had I had called

24:57

my parents when I was in the hospital and

24:59

told them of the situation.

25:02

What's their reaction when you called them? They

25:04

drove up. They were there 2

25:06

days later. They drove straight from Texas

25:10

and Got here as fast

25:12

as they could. Mhmm. They

25:14

hugged Tyler and Clint and

25:17

thanked them for taking care of me.

25:21

In that couple of days, they could see that

25:24

I was in good hands with Tyler and Clint.

25:27

We're going to pause the story here I'll

25:29

have to say, I was quite

25:32

taken back to hear this story from Sarah.

25:35

It was not the story that I intended

25:37

to hear from her. You

25:39

may have noticed that she said,

25:42

I don't think I've told this story

25:44

to anybody in a long time.

25:48

It's like this story, about

25:50

her emotionally abusive boyfriend

25:52

from London, was supposed to

25:55

be found and shared.

25:58

Because as she shared it,

26:01

it became clear to me that

26:03

this part of the story needed

26:06

to be heard and shared

26:08

today. Here

26:11

is Sarah. She's been in

26:13

this emotionally abusive online relationship

26:15

for 3 years. Her parents

26:17

had noticed a change in her

26:19

personality. There have been

26:21

many prayers from her parents that

26:24

she would choose to leave this boyfriend,

26:27

But they were fearful of being pushed

26:29

away from her, because

26:31

she was convinced that she knew

26:33

what was best, as so many teenagers

26:36

do believe. They

26:38

didn't wanna lose their influence in

26:41

her life. So now

26:44

she's started this new life in

26:46

Utah. But the London boyfriend

26:48

is still there. Wherever

26:51

she goes, he's still there.

26:54

And the emotional abuse continues.

26:58

The Church has published an article.

27:01

It's called Healing from Relationships.

27:03

It was published in August of 2022.

27:06

I'll put a link to it in the show notes. It

27:09

talks about the steps of healing from

27:11

an abusive relationship. The

27:13

first step is recognizing the relationship

27:15

trauma. Quote, when

27:17

we have been so deeply wounded

27:20

that we don't believe we can

27:22

trust ourselves or others, we

27:24

begin seeing relationships as dangerous

27:27

rather than as a place to learn, grow,

27:29

and reach our full potential. Deep

27:32

wounds can arise from abuse and

27:34

betrayal. Then

27:37

it talks about the different forms of abuse,

27:40

emotional, financial, physical,

27:42

sexual, spiritual. The

27:45

form that Sarah was encountering was

27:47

emotional, and it was deep.

27:50

So deep that she laid herself

27:52

in a parking lot, ready

27:54

to accept whatever would

27:56

occur to her, which was most likely

27:59

a car running over her. That

28:02

not only spoke to how low she felt

28:04

about herself, but it was

28:06

the trauma, the effect

28:08

of the trauma that was

28:10

playing out there. The

28:14

second step listed is

28:16

to turn to Heavenly Father

28:18

and Jesus Christ for healing. They

28:20

emphasized the time that

28:23

it takes for healing.

28:25

It can't be done quickly. The

28:28

third is developing. Healthy

28:30

relationships. starting

28:32

with yourself. Building

28:35

within a circle of trust. All

28:37

of this. Led me to find.

28:39

a professional, which is suggested. To

28:42

find a licensed. Professional.

28:44

That shares your values and

28:46

beliefs. And I found this

28:48

Fashional that's spoken directly.

28:51

Two. This specific issue. She

28:53

calls it. Becoming nonfiction

28:56

Christians. Her name

28:58

is Dr. Lily to Hoya Anderson.

29:01

She has her own podcast. It's called.

29:04

Choosing glory and it follows.

29:06

The Sunday school curriculum. Follow

29:09

him. Let me introduce. Dr.

29:11

Anderson first. She attended BYU and

29:13

graduated in sociology And

29:15

completed her master's in social

29:17

work.. She's a licensed clinical

29:20

social worker and has a full-time private

29:22

practice. In individual marriage

29:24

and family counseling. Later

29:27

sister Anderson completed her PhD

29:29

in marriage, family, and human development

29:32

at BYU. And for several years

29:35

hot part-time there. For the school

29:37

of family life. Her second book

29:39

choosing glory. I just

29:41

like the name of her podcast. Is

29:43

available in paperback and Kindle.

29:46

And one of those chapters choosing

29:48

glory talks about. Non

29:50

victim. Christian HUD I've recently

29:52

learned because she was a guest on another podcast.

29:55

Called follow him. Which is

29:57

another. Sunday school podcast.

30:00

She is writing another book and the whole book

30:02

is about being a non victim Christian.

30:05

I'm so glad this topic is going to be addressed.

30:08

So now that we know about Dr. Anderson.

30:11

I want to address. This issue about

30:13

being a non victim Christian. I'll quote

30:15

Dr. Anderson from episode

30:17

1.13. In doctrine

30:20

and covenants, section 98 through sections

30:22

1 0 3. Haute. The

30:24

issue here is

30:26

chronic victimization. Now

30:30

anyone can get victimized, mugged

30:33

or hurt in a business deal, but I'm talking

30:35

about relationships. That are

30:37

chronic where injuries happen again

30:39

and again, where the injury repeats again

30:41

and again, from the same source,

30:44

that's a chronic abuse situation.

30:47

The Lord doesn't want us to be. Chronic

30:50

victims. Now, why

30:52

is that? What was the Lord to do? In

30:55

the kingdom with a bunch of victim people

30:57

who are just used to being heard all the time.

31:00

It's like we lie down on the road and let

31:02

a steamroller roll over us every day. Unquote.

31:05

I couldn't believe she really used

31:07

that analogy concerning what? Sarah ditch

31:09

herself lying down in a parking lot. No,

31:12

not to everyone. I don't relate to Sarah

31:14

situation, Being a young adult.

31:17

In an abusive relationship.

31:19

But on second thought, perhaps

31:22

more of us can relate to chronic

31:24

abusive family relationships because

31:27

that's where most of these abusive

31:29

relationships occur, is within

31:31

the family,

31:32

Dr. Anderson shares one example

31:35

of this in her book, choosing

31:37

glory. It was an example

31:39

of an older mother and her

31:41

adult son. Who was the abuser.

31:44

and he was addicted to cocaine.

31:46

his abuse was not physical

31:48

abuse. But it was taking advantage

31:51

of his mother financially and

31:53

emotionally. Dr. Anderson's point

31:55

is. The Lord has shown us

31:57

through scripture. How to be. Non

32:00

victim Christian.

32:03

She goes on to say, referring to

32:05

people that are used to being victimized

32:07

all the time, quote,

32:11

That's not much of

32:13

the kind of person that's going to be much

32:15

of an asset in Zion. We

32:18

need to be people of power. Not

32:20

aggressive. That's why we talk about

32:23

this non victim Christian idea.

32:25

One simple way to define a non

32:28

victim Christian. Is, they don't

32:30

dish it out because they care

32:32

too much about their relationship

32:35

with God. But they don't

32:37

take it either. In other words.

32:39

They don't accept a position of chronic

32:42

victim hood. Let's look

32:44

at what the Lord says about that because

32:46

it's pretty wonderful and powerful stuff. Looking

32:49

at section 98, verse 44.

32:54

But if you trespass against thee

32:56

the fourth time, thou shalt not

32:59

forgive him. But shall bring

33:01

these testimonies before the Lord and

33:03

they shall not be blotted out until he repent

33:06

and reward the fourfold in all things.

33:08

Where with he has trespassed

33:11

against the unquote. She

33:13

goes on to say.

33:16

quote,

33:17

Obviously the Lord does not want you

33:19

to go around carrying a grudge or

33:21

with bitterness in our hearts or with anger

33:24

or vengeance towards someone else. So

33:26

when he's saying don't forgive. What

33:28

he means is stop interacting.

33:32

With that person. Unquote that

33:34

is. Just what this. Article says

33:36

from the church in healing, from relationships.

33:39

It talks about setting boundaries. So

33:42

she goes into it specifically. Dr.

33:44

Anderson goes on to say Haute. Stop

33:47

interacting with that person. You

33:49

can't keep putting your hand in a hot

33:51

stove and be surprised when

33:53

you get burned. He's

33:55

saying. Don't keep doing the

33:58

same thing again and again. With

34:00

the same person. Don't be acted

34:02

upon. You need to take action

34:04

at this point. It's been three times. here's

34:07

the fourth time and you need to take action.

34:10

Not action to destroy the other person.

34:13

Not action to turn us into the. same kind

34:15

of celestial Unharnessed natural

34:17

man, as the person who is hurting us.

34:20

The to rise above that. And

34:22

say, I've got to take responsibility.

34:25

For being safe. Unquote.

34:29

I will put a link to this particular

34:31

podcast in our show notes. I

34:34

look forward to her next book,

34:36

which is all about. Being

34:39

a non victim, Christian.

34:41

let's summarize what we've learned so far about

34:43

chronic abusive relationships from

34:45

the article and from Doctor. Anderson's work.

34:48

First, we recognize the

34:51

trauma from the abusive relationship.

34:53

Second, we turn to

34:55

our Heavenly Father and

34:57

Jesus Christ for healing.

35:00

They will lead us on the

35:02

boundaries, the healthy boundaries

35:04

that may need to be set in these relationships.

35:07

And thirdly, the last

35:09

is developing healthy relationships,

35:12

starting with ourselves. What

35:15

we've talked about so far in regards

35:17

to chronic abusive relationships is

35:20

how to deal with them, what

35:22

to do, and how to heal from them. But

35:25

what we haven't talked about is why.

35:28

Why was Sarah in this relationship?

35:31

And she tells us why. She

35:33

says it was because of her low self

35:35

worth. she had

35:37

forgotten or didn't understand

35:40

her divine worth. And

35:43

I can see why it's easy

35:45

to do when we're constantly

35:47

surrounded by social

35:49

media, which flashes in front

35:51

of us, what is the

35:54

world's beauty? What is

35:56

the world's worth? It's

35:58

easy to get caught up into it. President

36:02

Joy D. Jones, the

36:04

primary general president 2017,

36:07

addresses this topic

36:09

of divine worth. in

36:11

a sermonette named Value Beyond

36:14

Measure. She says, quote,

36:17

The Lord revealed this additional truth

36:20

to the prophet Joseph Smith, quote,

36:23

He that receiveth of God, let

36:25

him account it of God.

36:28

And let him rejoice that

36:31

he is accounted of God worthy to

36:33

receive. She

36:36

goes on to say: quote,

36:39

When we feel the spirit, as

36:41

this verse explains, we

36:44

recognize that what we feel comes

36:46

from our Heavenly Father. We

36:49

acknowledge him and praise him

36:51

for blessing us. We

36:54

then rejoice that we are

36:56

counted worthy to receive. Imagine

37:00

that you are reading the scriptures 1 morning

37:02

and the spirit softly whispers

37:04

to you that what you are reading

37:07

is true. Do

37:09

you recognize the spirit and be happy

37:11

that you felt his love and were worthy

37:13

to receive? Mothers,

37:18

you might be kneeling next to your 4

37:20

year old as he says his bedtime prayer.

37:23

A feeling flows over you as you listen.

37:26

You feel warmth and peace. The

37:29

feeling is brief, but you

37:32

recognize that you, at that moment,

37:35

are counted worthy to receive.

37:38

We may seldom, if

37:40

ever, receive huge spiritual

37:43

manifestations in our lives, but

37:46

we can frequently savor the

37:49

sweet whisperings of the Holy

37:51

Ghost. Verifying the truth of

37:53

our spiritual worth. The

37:56

Lord explained the relationship

37:58

between our worth and

38:00

his great atoning sacrifice when

38:02

he said, quote,

38:05

Remember, the worth of souls

38:08

is great in the sight

38:10

of God. We

38:15

are accounted of God worthy

38:18

to receive the sweet whisperings

38:20

of the Holy Ghost. And we've been

38:22

reminded that the worth of

38:24

souls is great in the

38:26

sight of God. Sarah

38:28

told us that her parents had prayed

38:31

many prayers on her behalf,

38:34

that this manipulative relationship that she

38:36

was involved in would resolve,

38:38

that she'd be safe, that she'd be protected.

38:42

And what happened? Well,

38:44

two men showed up in her life, the

38:47

way I look at it, two ministering

38:50

men. And we see this

38:52

pattern repeat itself in each

38:54

other's lives and in the

38:56

lives we read about in the scriptures

38:59

as family prays for one

39:01

another. The Lord sends

39:04

ministering angels, ministering

39:06

sisters and ministering brothers to

39:09

take care of us, to help

39:11

us in times of need. It

39:14

was Tyler that gave Sarah

39:16

the courage to end that relationship

39:19

with the abusive boyfriend. I

39:22

appreciate Sarah's courage in sharing

39:24

her story I am encouraged

39:26

in knowing that Heavenly Father wants

39:29

us to be powerful and happy

39:31

and that we can be non victim

39:34

Christians. Now

39:36

I'll share the rest of Sarah's story,

39:40

along with some highlights from the

39:42

interview. Sarah,

39:44

Tyler, and Clint continued

39:46

on in their friendship. Both

39:48

of these men treated Sarah with the utmost

39:51

respect and kindness. It

39:54

was not too long before Sarah

39:56

and Tyler's relationship became

39:58

more serious, even romantic.

40:01

Just for reference. Tyler

40:03

was the first one to approach Sarah

40:06

Clearback at that first pool party,

40:09

and he was also the one that suggested

40:12

that she come home and

40:15

have his father give her a

40:17

blessing. Sarah talks about

40:19

their engagement. Next.

40:22

the proposal is actually a funny story

40:24

Is it? By itself. Technically,

40:27

I proposed to him in

40:30

a backwards way. Really?

40:32

we were sitting on the couch 1

40:35

morning he had woken up before

40:37

I had to leave for classes. Just

40:39

talking and then we both got really quiet.

40:43

And he's what are you thinking about?

40:47

And I said, no, it's dumb. He's

40:49

no, tell me, what are you thinking about?

40:52

I said, I just can't Stop

40:55

thinking when are you going to

40:57

propose to me. Really?

41:00

But at the same time, it was so

41:02

Early, I hadn't known him really

41:04

that long. Mhmm. And

41:07

he stood up. He

41:10

went to his

41:12

cupboard, And he

41:14

got out his grandmother's

41:18

peridot earrings. And

41:23

He proposed to me right then

41:25

with the earrings.

41:27

Oh, that's sweet.

41:29

And then We snuck

41:31

out after classes

41:34

and went to

41:36

Kay Jewelers. Oh, okay.

41:38

And picked out a ring.

41:41

This is gonna be the real proposal. And,

41:45

No. We didn't do a real proposal.

41:47

We were just like Hey, everybody. Guess

41:49

what? We're engaged. We're

41:52

nerdy. We didn't do the whole you

41:54

know, big proposal.

41:57

Well, I liked Rapunzel how it turned

41:59

out with the grandmother's earrings. That's unique

42:02

and tender.

42:04

It was Really intimate and special. Mhmm.

42:06

It didn't have to

42:08

be this big grand event.

42:10

I didn't want it To be a big grand

42:13

event. I'm a shy person. Mhmm.

42:15

Okay. And so it was

42:17

just really special Yeah. That it

42:19

happened in this quiet moment. Yeah.

42:24

Sarah and Tyler got married

42:26

in the Salt Lake Temple in the year 2010.

42:29

Shortly after they're married, Sarah

42:32

gets pregnant with their first

42:34

child and it's a little boy

42:37

They name him Isaac. and life

42:40

is good. They're thrilled to have

42:42

their first child. But Tyler

42:44

had some medical issues.

42:46

He had Crohn's disease and he had Asperger's

42:49

syndrome along with some

42:51

other medical issues that it was at this time

42:54

That his weight steadily,

42:56

quickly increased and

42:58

his health started to decline.

43:01

had been married about four and a half

43:03

years and now Sarah is expecting their

43:05

second child and

43:08

she's in the first trimester. It's

43:10

in the middle of the night and

43:13

Tyler says to her he,

43:15

he can't breathe and

43:17

he's gray in color she

43:21

says, we've got to go to the hospital. They

43:24

move towards the car and

43:26

Tyler collapses.

43:30

Sarah is a certified nurse assistant.

43:33

She immediately goes into medical mode.

43:35

She calls 911 and starts CPR

43:37

on Tyler. She's talking to

43:39

the emergency assistant as she's

43:41

waiting for the paramedics to arrive and

43:44

performing CPR at the same time.

43:47

By the time they arrive, her arms are

43:49

locked. They

43:51

move Sarah away from Tyler.

43:54

And they work on Tyler. But

43:56

his heart does not start again.

44:00

And Tyler is pronounced

44:03

dead. It's

44:07

too much to take in. It

44:12

can't really be. The

44:16

shock was overwhelming. what

44:21

to do. She

44:24

felt her world had

44:26

collapsed around

44:28

her. I'm

44:37

going to share a clip of her speaking

44:41

the afternoon after he passed,

44:44

when she had had a little time to herself to

44:46

walk to a nearby park, and

44:48

what she experienced.

44:51

When I'm upset, I like to walk in nature

44:53

by myself. So

44:56

I went out for a walk to

44:59

a nearby park, and

45:02

I sat on top of the hill. I

45:05

stared at the sky, and

45:09

a little bit of me just wished that I would

45:11

get sucked up there Embi

45:13

with Tyler again. And I kept

45:15

thinking the lyrics

45:18

to my favorite primary children's

45:20

song. It's called a child's

45:23

prayer. as the song goes, Heavenly

45:25

father, are you really there? Can

45:29

you hear me? Can

45:31

you answer my prayers? Because

45:34

right now, I feel

45:36

like a little child, and

45:40

I don't know what to do. And

45:44

heaven feels really far away right now

45:48

because that's where my husband is,

45:52

And I'm not there with him. And

45:57

flooding into my mind as

45:59

I'm sitting there staring at the clouds came

46:01

the second verse. Pray.

46:05

He is there. He

46:10

is listening. And you

46:12

are his child and his love surrounds

46:14

you. And

46:16

I didn't know why that was so important, but

46:21

I felt a warm hug as

46:25

I was laying on that grass and

46:28

nothing was right in the world. I

46:33

felt warm and loved and

46:37

that it was gonna be okay. Tyler

46:40

had been there to

46:43

save me from that

46:46

manipulative relationship. He

46:49

had brought me 2 children, and

46:53

that was his calling and that

46:55

it was gonna be okay. I

46:59

went back to the house, and

47:03

it was kinda catatonic for

47:06

A while. My mother-in-law It

47:09

was a blessing. She grieves

47:11

differently from me. She grieved

47:14

by taking care of

47:17

my son. She made sure

47:19

that he had everything he needed. She made

47:21

sure that he was fed And

47:24

changed and taken care of

47:27

because she had just lost her son.

47:29

And so she could grieve through

47:32

caring for Her

47:34

grandson. Which provided both of us

47:36

the opportunity to grieve in our own way.

47:39

There were a lot of blessings, Surprise

47:42

blessings that happened

47:44

around the time of Tyler's

47:46

death. Things that made it feel

47:50

Okay. Tyler's

47:52

grandma had died the year before On

47:55

the same day, At the same

47:58

time. And it was almost like when

48:00

we thought about it that she came

48:02

to get him. And it Helped

48:04

us feel a little bit more peaceful. Yeah.

48:06

That's what you're saying. after he died, I went

48:08

to the front office of the apartment

48:11

complex. We had just resigned

48:14

our new lease. Oh, dear.

48:17

And I could not afford The

48:19

rent. And I said,

48:22

listen. This is what happened. My

48:24

husband's gone. I only

48:26

have my income. I

48:29

can't afford it, and I need to move into

48:31

my in law's house. I'm

48:33

about to have a baby. I

48:36

can't do it on my own. And

48:40

the landlord said, what lease? Really?

48:45

They said they lost the lease. I

48:48

suspect that

48:51

they just, Quote,

48:53

unquote lost the

48:55

lease because they knew of my

48:57

situation. They

48:59

didn't make me pay any

49:02

Breaking a lease fee. We

49:05

just moved out. The church

49:07

came and helped Scrub the walls,

49:09

clean the apartment, do all the move out

49:11

stuff. But the apartment just let me

49:13

go. Sarah,

49:16

what a blessing. And

49:18

I was able to move in with my in laws

49:20

for a few months.

49:22

Sarah and her son, Isaac, are

49:24

now living with her in laws

49:27

and adjusting to life without

49:29

Tyler. Flint, Sarah

49:32

and Tyler's old friend, he was part of

49:34

the Three Musketeers and a longtime

49:36

friend of Tyler's family,

49:39

comes to the house to grieve over

49:41

Tyler's loss. And begins to visit

49:43

the home regularly. Isaac

49:47

adores Clint and

49:49

likes to treat him like a surrogate father.

49:52

after a while, Sarah and Clint begin

49:55

seeing each other more regularly And eventually

49:57

decided to become engaged to be married.

50:00

Now we'll go to a clip where Sarah shares Some

50:02

of the struggles that she went through

50:05

as she approached the engagement and marriage

50:08

and where her life is now.

50:12

I want us to be an eternal family.

50:15

Can't we just add Clint. in?

50:18

So that was a time of serious

50:21

spiritual struggle for me. I

50:23

see. Because I was

50:25

angry that I couldn't be

50:28

sealed to both men. Mhmm. And

50:31

after talking about it with Clint, we decided

50:35

that heavenly father doesn't want us

50:39

To be

50:42

sad or in pain or

50:44

to be miserable. And

50:48

we both felt that he had led us

50:51

to the

50:53

situation together. He had led me

50:56

To Tyler and Clint.

50:59

And it felt like Back at that swimming

51:01

pool. Back at that swimming pool.

51:03

And it felt like It

51:07

was planned that Tyler was going

51:10

to have to leave us early. He

51:12

has some mission in the afterlife, But

51:15

that Clint was going to be part of the family moving

51:17

forward. So we

51:20

decided to just put our faith and

51:24

pray And listen

51:28

To the spirit and move

51:31

forward and go

51:33

ahead and get married. Clint's

51:36

bishop married us in the

51:38

relief society room of their

51:40

chapel. So we're civilly

51:42

married. Mhmm. But

51:46

it was really special when we went to look

51:48

for a ring. I

51:50

was a little bit distressed. I was like,

51:52

I don't wanna take off Tyler's ring,

51:55

but I also don't wanna be disrespectful and

51:57

be like, no. I don't want your

51:59

ring To Clint. So

52:03

we went just to browse. Clint

52:06

found a ring that

52:08

went around the outside of

52:11

Tyler's ring. Oh, look at that.

52:14

So you have a swirl of diamonds

52:17

almost like a jacket that

52:20

goes around the original Tyler's

52:22

ring. Yeah. The central band was

52:24

my ring from Tyler, and

52:27

Clint chose This

52:29

ring that hugs

52:33

and connects around Tyler's

52:35

ring Symbolizing that we're

52:37

all part of an eternal family even

52:40

if we don't understand heavenly

52:42

father's plan and why we're not allowed to

52:44

be sealed right now. Mhmm.

52:46

And so we're going to trust, like

52:49

children have to trust their parents. That

52:52

it's gonna be okay. Yeah. And that

52:54

it'll work out in the eternal

52:56

perspective. Faith. Faith.

52:59

Faith. We're in faith. What

53:03

a beautiful wedding ring.

53:06

Thank you. Original and

53:09

so meaningful. Now

53:12

where are you? With you and Clint,

53:14

you have 2 children,

53:16

but I know you've gone further

53:19

than that. Clint

53:21

and I have had 2 more

53:23

children. We have

53:25

a daughter. Her name's Elaine and

53:28

a son. His name is Leo. Over

53:32

now. So we have 4 children altogether. And

53:35

it never feels Like

53:39

my kids and his kids. We

53:42

are 1 eternal family.

53:45

I understand you're still close with Tyler's parents.

53:49

Yes. We take

53:51

the kids, to go visit

53:53

in Sandy, we drive an hour every

53:56

weekend to

53:58

go take our kids To go see their

54:00

grandparents or they drive to us and

54:03

come get the kids. And so

54:05

we make sure to keep that relationship

54:07

open. So my kids just have

54:09

bonus grandparents now. Yes. Yeah.

54:11

So it's all flourishing. Mhmm.

54:14

Oh, so you weren't left

54:16

alone. I was not. To raise

54:19

your 2 children, couldn't

54:22

join the family. Yeah. 2 more

54:24

children. Yep. And our

54:26

family just grew. Our family

54:28

didn't shrink

54:30

when Tyler died. He's just

54:32

gone for a while, And we'll see him

54:34

again. Yeah. Yeah.

54:37

It's a beautiful story. Thank

54:40

you, Sarah. Thank you for sharing it. Thank

54:43

you for helping us understand what

54:45

you went through at those vulnerable times

54:47

asking, holy father, are you really there

54:50

when you were up on that hill? And

54:53

indeed, you felt his

54:55

love around

54:58

you. That hug and

55:01

that assurity through that primary song.

55:04

Are you really there? And the answer

55:06

was pray. Yeah.

55:09

Pray. I

55:12

am there. My love will surround you.

55:15

Yeah. My love will

55:17

surround you. And

55:21

In the immediate, I

55:23

felt that love surrounding me through

55:26

that invisible hug. And

55:28

in the long term, I

55:30

have felt his love through

55:33

other people, through Clint, and

55:36

through Clint's family, and through Tyler's

55:38

family. And

55:40

I was never left alone even

55:42

when I felt alone. You

55:46

have just a larger extended family.

55:48

Yes. Oh,

55:52

miracles. if you could say this

55:54

is 1 thing that I learned from the Lord

55:56

within this journey Could

55:59

you sum it up for us? Heavenly

56:04

father is there. He

56:07

is real. Sometimes

56:09

you might feel alone. Sometimes

56:14

you might not understand what the plan

56:16

is Or

56:18

how things are going to fall into place. But

56:22

there is a plan. And

56:26

in the long term, things

56:29

will be okay. And

56:32

they might even be better than okay. It's

56:35

odd to say, but it's

56:38

hard to imagine My

56:41

life differently. it

56:44

feels Like

56:47

it was supposed to be this way. That

56:49

there was a time and a season For

56:52

Tyler to be in my life,

56:55

that he's needed elsewhere, that

56:57

heavenly father has a plan for him. And

57:00

he's gone, but he's not

57:03

gone. He's gone from this

57:06

earth, but he's not gone

57:08

from my family. And

57:10

we're just 1

57:13

little part of God's eternal plan.

57:18

Yes. Thank you. Thank you for

57:20

sharing this story with me, Sarah.

57:23

What a journey. What journey.

57:27

I want to thank Sarah Mabee

57:29

for sharing her life with us today.

57:32

We've been blessed by learning

57:35

from her life story. I

57:38

also want to thank our listeners.

57:42

Thank you for spreading the good

57:44

word about dear daughters of

57:46

God. I

57:48

will create a videogram and it will include

57:50

a picture of Sarah and the wedding ring that we

57:52

talked about in the story. I

57:55

hope you'll look it up. You'll find it on

57:57

the Dear Daughters of God Instagram and Facebook

57:59

page. I ask

58:02

that you please continue to subscribe,

58:04

and to rate, and best of all,

58:07

to share this podcast with those that

58:09

you love. Thank you for listening

58:11

to our story today. For

58:14

now, I will say farewell,

58:17

until we meet again.