0:00

Hey Mike here, I just wanted to

0:02

let you know that you can listen

0:04

to Dark Poutine early and ad free

0:06

on Amazon Music included with Prime. Welcome

0:19

back to Dark Poutine. I am Mike

0:21

Brown. And I am Matthew. Yes,

0:24

you are. Matthew Stockton. How are

0:26

you Matthew Stockton? I am very

0:28

good. I am,

0:31

my mother's visiting this week. Ginger

0:33

is in town. Ginger's in town

0:35

and then I'm heading back to

0:37

London, Ontario with her on Friday

0:39

for a couple of days. That

0:41

sounds nice. Yeah, so I had

0:43

a few days off and we

0:45

did lots of nice things like the Sea

0:48

to Sky gondola. Cool. The

0:51

views, information and opinions expressed

0:53

during the Dark Poutine podcast

0:55

are solely those of the

0:57

producer and do not necessarily

1:00

represent those of Curious Cast,

1:02

its affiliate Global News, nor

1:04

their parent company, Chorus Entertainment.

1:10

Dark Poutine is not for the faint

1:12

of heart or squeamish. Listener discretion is

1:14

strongly advised. We're not experts on the

1:16

topics we present nor are we journalists.

1:19

We're two ordinary Canadians chatting about crime

1:21

in the dark side of history. Let's

1:24

get to it. Put on your toque.

1:26

Grab yourself a double double and an

1:29

enymobar. It's time to scarf

1:31

down some Dark Poutine. You

1:33

are responsible for obtaining and maintaining at your own cost

1:35

all equipment needed to listen to Dark Poutine. Dark

1:37

Poutine can be addictive. Side effects may include but not

1:40

be limited to you. Pausing and questioning the system. Elevated

1:42

heart rate. Pondering humanity. Odd looks from colleagues as you

1:44

laugh out loud at work. Family members not into true

1:46

crime worrying about you. Positive side effects may include some

1:48

perspectives and opinions that you disagree with as well as

1:51

some wiltness and empathy. If you don't think Dark Poutine

1:53

is for you, consult your doctor immediately. Marguerite

2:37

Tellesford, a 20-year-old student at

2:39

the University of Victoria, disappeared

2:41

under suspicious circumstances on January

2:43

18, 1987, in Saanich, British

2:45

Columbia. Marguerite

2:49

had gone out for her routine morning

2:51

jog when something tragic occurred. Her

2:54

bloody earmuffs were discovered on

2:56

Mount Douglas Cross Road along

2:58

with bloodstains, a discharged shotgun

3:00

shell, and a pry bar,

3:02

evidence suggesting foul play. Despite

3:05

an investigation, Tellesford's body was

3:08

never located. Two years

3:10

later, in 1989,

3:12

Scott Ian McKay was eventually found

3:14

guilty of second-degree murder in relation

3:16

to Marguerite's death, though he maintained

3:18

his innocence throughout the trial. McKay

3:21

had a prior history of violent

3:23

assaults targeting vulnerable women. The

3:26

prosecution's theory was that McKay had

3:28

encountered Marguerite during her morning run,

3:30

struck her with his vehicle, and

3:32

then shot her. McKay

3:35

has been serving a life sentence,

3:37

and recently, after several denied parole

3:39

applications, was granted day parole. This

3:43

decision has been controversial and met

3:45

with criticism from the community and

3:47

victim rights advocates, citing

3:49

concerns about the potential risk to

3:51

public safety and the lack of

3:54

remorse shown by McKay. This

3:57

is Dark Poutine Episode 316. The

4:00

Sanitch area of British Columbia has a long

4:02

history of indigenous settlement and occupation.

4:17

Before European contact, the area

4:19

was home to the Lekwungen

4:21

and Senchoten-speaking peoples, each of

4:23

which had their own distinct

4:25

territories and traveled freely over

4:27

the land, hunting, fishing and

4:29

gathering resources. In the 1850s,

4:32

James Douglas, the chief factor and

4:34

later governor of the Hudson's Bay

4:36

Company colony on Vancouver Island, signed

4:39

treaties with 14 indigenous

4:41

groups. However, the provincial and federal

4:43

governments continued attempts to impose dominion

4:45

over these lands for the following

4:47

170 years. The

4:50

Sanitch area, including what is now

4:52

called the Tilikum neighborhood, provided shelter

4:54

and food to the First Nations

4:56

people for hundreds of years. During

4:59

colonial times, the area was developed

5:01

as an agricultural region. In

5:04

the late 19th and early 20th centuries,

5:07

gorge waterway and portage

5:09

inlet became popular summertime

5:11

recreational destinations. Sanitch

5:13

and the provincial capital, Victoria,

5:15

are geographically interconnected municipalities within

5:18

the greater Victoria region of

5:20

BC. Sanitch

5:22

has described as an expansive community

5:24

that borders and surrounds the city

5:27

of Victoria on multiple sides, forming

5:29

what one Redditor called an amorphous

5:31

blob hugging the urban core. According

5:35

to regional definitions, Sanitch and the

5:37

municipalities of North Sanitch and Sydney

5:40

lie to the north of Victoria

5:42

proper. While not

5:44

officially a suburb, Sanitch is

5:46

noted as the largest of

5:48

Victoria's municipalities by area. The

5:50

two are distinct municipal entities,

5:53

but their boundaries are tightly

5:55

intertwined. In 1987, the

5:57

same year that Marguerite Telesford disappeared,

5:59

The chiefs of four First

6:01

Nations came together to sign

6:04

the Saanich Indian Territorial Declaration,

6:06

asserting their absolute rights and

6:08

title to their traditional homeland.

6:11

This historic event was marked by

6:13

the community celebrating its 35th anniversary

6:15

in 2022. Originally

6:18

from Port of Spain to Bego, Marguerite

6:21

Telesford's family had immigrated to Canada

6:23

when she was a young girl.

6:25

Tobago is the smaller of the

6:28

two main islands that make up

6:30

the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago,

6:32

located in the southeastern Caribbean Sea,

6:35

northeast of Venezuela. Separated from its

6:37

larger sister island, Trinidad, by about

6:39

30 kilometers of the Atlantic Ocean,

6:41

Tobago is characterized by its lush

6:44

rainforest, beautiful beaches and

6:46

coral reefs, making it a

6:48

renowned destination for its natural

6:50

beauty and ecological diversity. Tobago's

6:53

history is marked by frequent

6:55

colonial contests and changes in

6:57

governance, having been ruled

7:00

by the Spanish, British, French,

7:02

Dutch and Corlenders, reflecting its

7:04

strategic importance and value for

7:06

sugar cultivation. Slavery played a

7:08

significant role in its early

7:10

economy until emancipation in the

7:12

1830s. After

7:14

the abolition of slavery, the

7:16

island's economy declined. In

7:19

1889, Tobago was administratively combined

7:21

with Trinidad by the British, and this

7:23

union continued after independence in 1962, and

7:25

it became a republic in 1976. Throughout

7:32

the 20th century, especially after World

7:34

War II, Tobago experienced significant social

7:36

and economic changes with further development

7:39

in infrastructure and tourism in the

7:41

late 1970s and early 80s, albeit

7:45

at a slower pace than

7:47

Trinidad. However, Tobago retained a

7:49

distinct cultural identity, heavily

7:52

influenced by its historical blend

7:54

of indigenous African, Indian and

7:56

European cultures. Have You ever

7:58

been to... Tobago.

8:00

Trinidad, that area. I

8:03

have not. I. I've been

8:05

to the area, but I haven't been to Trinidad

8:07

Tobago. know. I'm here's

8:09

a fun fact. Okay, I

8:12

you are mister Have to go to

8:14

Trinidad and Tobago because around ten percent

8:16

of all Trinidadian and to bug only

8:18

insects. oh they're called the eyes in

8:21

the world Live in Canada. So.

8:23

When I see the word tobago

8:25

I can't help but think while

8:27

tobacco. But then another thing I

8:29

think out because I'm Canadian, probably

8:31

as toboggan. Trinidad

8:34

and Tobago known ends. Thesis

8:38

Exactly. And I don't mean any

8:40

disrespect, but but but yeah, But

8:43

that's just the way my brain

8:45

works. Morneau, it's you. It's cute.

8:48

Will. Margarita. Parents struggled to

8:50

make ends meet in Montreal, where they

8:53

first landed. And as the

8:55

pressure mounted, their marriage did not

8:57

survive. They separated and eventually divorce.

9:00

Marguerite. Then moved with her mother to

9:02

Victoria B C. Marguerite. Mom

9:04

was unwell, under employed, and could not

9:06

provide a life she wanted for her

9:09

daughter. When. Margaret was fifteen.

9:11

Her mother made the difficult decision

9:13

to relinquish custody into the care

9:15

of the province. This.

9:17

Was when Marguerite came into the

9:19

care of Norma and Bill Cowl

9:22

at their home on Cedar Hill

9:24

Road and Senate. Marguerite thrive with

9:26

the cows they loved and cared

9:28

for her as their own. She

9:30

attended Mount Douglas Secondary School in

9:33

Victoria, where she excelled academically and

9:35

was involved in athletics, particularly gymnastics

9:37

and track and field. He ran

9:39

almost every day, whether it was

9:41

raining, shining, or cold, She

9:44

was creative to and loved playing

9:46

piano. He was a people person.

9:48

Every account I found about her

9:50

indicated she was generous, compassionate and

9:52

kind to everyone she met. He

9:54

loved children and volunteered with disabled

9:56

kids. Marguerite. graduated from

9:58

high school upon classmate in the

10:01

class of 1984. She applied and was accepted to the

10:05

University of Victoria close by.

10:07

She aimed to become an elementary

10:10

school teacher. To earn spending money

10:12

she worked at various part-time jobs

10:14

including a card shop where her

10:16

co-worker Lillian Harkis told the Vancouver

10:18

Sun's Lisa Fitterman, quote, you couldn't

10:20

have met a nicer person. She

10:22

had a flawless character, end quote.

10:24

A flawless character is very high

10:27

praise and looking at photos of

10:29

her here and I think she's

10:31

absolutely gorgeous as well. So I'm

10:33

just looking at this young woman

10:36

thinking, you know, all these

10:38

people said, you know, she's happy,

10:40

she's smart, she's giving back, she's gorgeous.

10:43

I just, I look at the picture

10:45

of her and I'm like, the world

10:47

would have been her oyster. Absolutely. On

10:50

January 18th, 1987, Marguerite Telesford

10:53

left her sandwich home for her morning jog.

10:55

Her foster mother heard her getting ready and

10:57

both of them heard her leave around 7.15

10:59

a.m. They had not seen

11:03

her leave so they were unaware of the clothing

11:05

she'd been wearing when she left the house. Moments

11:08

later, a newspaper delivery person spotted

11:10

a tall young black woman wearing

11:13

ear muffs and possibly a toque

11:16

jogging along Mount Douglas Cross Road.

11:18

This was the last known sighting of

11:21

Marguerite Telesford. She did not come home.

11:24

Later, at around 8.45 a.m.

11:26

in Mount Douglas Park, about a

11:28

kilometer from Marguerite's home, two

11:30

other joggers noticed blood stains and a pair

11:32

of broken ear muffs on that same road

11:34

in the ditch. The police were called to

11:37

the scene. They recovered the

11:39

broken ear muffs, a spent shotgun

11:41

shell, black hair which was later

11:43

determined likely to have come from

11:45

Marguerite and a pry bar amidst

11:48

the blood stains which forensics confirmed

11:50

were human blood. When

11:52

Norma and Bill Cowell reported Marguerite

11:54

missing around noon that day, it

11:56

was easy for police to connect

11:58

Marguerite with the evidence at the

12:00

crime scene. She'd been wearing

12:02

earmuffs just like those discovered. Police

12:05

then launched a murder investigation as

12:07

the amount of blood discovered led

12:09

them to believe whoever had been

12:11

bleeding at the crime scene had

12:13

not survived. Efforts

12:15

were also made to obtain Marguerite's

12:18

medical records from Trinidad to confirm

12:20

the blood found matched hers. According

12:23

to a January 20,

12:26

1987, Providence newspaper article by Salim

12:28

Jiwah, Michael Talisford, Marguerite's distraught father

12:30

who had been separated from his

12:32

wife since 1980 and had last

12:34

seen his daughter three years prior

12:36

stated that Marguerite's foster mother told

12:38

him that she had been murdered.

12:42

They said Marguerite was murdered, said the

12:44

Montreal man, recounting that the foster mother

12:46

on the phone sobbed as she told

12:48

him police had found a lot of

12:50

blood about a kilometer from their home.

12:53

Talisford said that he was told Marguerite

12:55

was a wonderful person and that he couldn't

12:57

have been more proud of her. Staff

13:00

Sergeant Carl Bolger described Marguerite as

13:02

a good student who led a

13:04

quiet life after moving to Victoria

13:06

in 1980. He

13:08

stated, quote, she was very attractive and

13:10

well liked by everyone who came in

13:12

contact with her. From

13:14

reports we have, she was a good

13:16

student. She had good relations with the

13:18

foster family she lived with here. Police

13:22

suspected that Marguerite's body was likely moved

13:24

from the crime scene in a vehicle,

13:26

possibly a pickup. They asked

13:28

the public to report any suspicious cars or

13:30

people who might have been in the vicinity

13:33

during the time. While

13:35

several neighbors reported hearing shotgun blasts

13:37

in the area, this was not

13:39

entirely unusual for that locality. Lisa

13:42

Fitterman of the Vancouver Sun reported that

13:44

Barb Tyson, who lived near the crime

13:47

scene, stated that her family heard gunshots

13:49

too frequently to go outside and investigate

13:51

every single one. In addition

13:53

to worrying about what happened to

13:55

Marguerite Talisford, neighbors also feared for

13:57

their own safety. Tyson said,

14:00

Quote, when it's close like this, you worry a lot

14:02

more. She had two daughters, aged

14:04

17 and 21, and

14:07

unfortunately, they could not always stay home because

14:09

of their jobs. The disappearance

14:11

of Marguerite, Tellesford, and the potential for

14:13

violence in the area caused a significant

14:15

concern among local residents. Yeah, I mean,

14:17

and just to be clear for some

14:20

of the listeners, it's not like they're

14:22

living in, and I'm not pecking on

14:24

this neighborhood, but it's known, a huge

14:26

gun crime west Garfield Park in Chicago,

14:28

even we know about that in Canada,

14:30

right? It's not

14:32

a gun crime. We keep hearing guns.

14:35

It's a hunters or

14:37

kids like I was, like shooting

14:39

bottles off of fences and stuff like

14:41

that, and which is

14:43

also at the same time, even for

14:45

a community like this, for something like this to

14:48

happen, just to show that, oh yeah, we hear

14:50

gunshots, hunters, just for something like

14:52

this to happen, that

14:54

sort of more rural community would have been

14:57

shocking as well, right? Yeah.

15:00

Although rare, there had been other unsolved attacks

15:02

in the area, and these came into mind

15:04

quickly as word of the bloody crime scene

15:06

got around. In 1981, a

15:09

young woman was ambushed by a man wielding

15:11

a knife while she was out jogging. Her

15:14

attacker managed to evade identification and

15:16

was never found. On

15:18

July 28, 1982, in the

15:20

Golden Head suburb of Victoria,

15:22

Barbara Koster, a 15-year-old high

15:25

school student, was struck in the

15:27

back of the head by a

15:29

bullet while simply walking along a

15:31

street close to her home. She

15:33

was accompanied by a 14-year-old friend

15:35

visiting from Saskatchewan who fortunately remained

15:37

unharmed. Despite being rushed

15:39

to the hospital, Barbara Koster ultimately succumbed

15:42

to the gunshot wound later that day.

15:45

In March 1983, a Victoria

15:47

jury acquitted 27-year-old Steven Victor

15:49

Hodgson of murdering Barbara Koster

15:51

after an 11-hour deliberation. Though

15:55

one of Hodgson's former cellmates testified

15:57

that Hodgson confessed to the murder

16:00

of the crime and witnesses claim to

16:02

have seen him following young girls in

16:04

the area around the time of the

16:06

shooting, Hodgson's lawyer David Vickers

16:08

asserted the cellmate lied and

16:11

highlighted inconsistencies in the prosecution's

16:13

case. After the

16:15

not guilty verdict, an emotional Hodgson

16:17

embraced his family members present in

16:19

the courtroom. Barbara Koster's

16:21

murder remains unsolved. But

16:25

350 volunteers conducted a massive

16:27

but unsuccessful shoulder-to-shoulder search for

16:29

Marguerite Tellesford on January 21,

16:31

1987. Friends

16:35

of Marguerite, like Laura Mallett and Paige

16:37

Robinson, who lived in the same neighborhood

16:39

expressed shock and a desire to know

16:41

what happened to her. A

16:43

group of Marguerite's friends spent three hours

16:45

scouring a densely wooded area of Mount

16:48

Douglas Park near where the bloody evidence

16:50

was found. However, at

16:52

noon, the search coordinated by

16:54

the Saanich Emergency Program was

16:56

called off despite around 200

16:58

additional volunteers assisting. The

17:01

coordinator, Lance Olmsted, stated they were,

17:03

quote, very disappointed at not finding

17:05

anything but had exhausted all efforts.

17:08

At Marguerite's home, her distraught foster

17:11

mother, Norma Cowell, anxiously awaited news

17:13

with family friends. Norma

17:15

had previously worried about Marguerite jogging

17:17

alone in the dark against her

17:19

wishes. Rewards totaling $9,500 had been

17:22

offered to help solve the case. Two

17:26

days later, rewards for information about

17:28

the mysterious disappearance and suspected murder

17:31

of the 20-year-old UVic student had

17:33

surpassed $11,000, according to Saanich police.

17:39

Over 1,000 residents had been interviewed

17:41

as part of the investigation, which

17:43

was inundated with tips about suspicious

17:45

persons, vehicles, and harassment of joggers

17:47

in the neighborhood. While the

17:49

January 21 Search for Marguerite Failed

17:51

to turn up any evidence in

17:53

Mount Douglas Park, police continued scouring

17:55

secluded areas of Saanich with dogs

17:58

with the hopes of locating. Greece

18:00

body. A. Team of fifteen

18:02

detectives and officers were working around the

18:04

clock following up on tips. Donation.

18:07

Funds were established at West Coast

18:09

Savings A New Back to raise

18:12

more reward money, with Senate's council

18:14

contributing five thousand dollars. Police.

18:16

Continued appealing to the public for even

18:18

the smallest piece of information which will

18:21

aid the investigation. Friends

18:23

of Marguerite tell us for held out

18:25

hope Mass at the Holy Cross Catholic

18:27

Church at Forty Fifty Three Gordon Had

18:29

Road on the morning of January Twenty

18:31

third. After more than

18:33

twenty five hundred interviews, the case

18:35

had grown cold. However,

18:38

A pivotal break came on February twenty

18:40

seventh, when both Senate and Obey police

18:42

received a tip from a crimestoppers call

18:44

taker that a jail guard had learned

18:47

that Scott Ian Mackaye, a twenty four

18:49

year old roofer and inmates at the

18:51

Provincial jail on Wilkinson Road, had told

18:53

other inmates he was involved in Marguerite

18:56

tell us for it's disappearance and murder.

18:58

And. That he was trying to get rid of his

19:00

truck with which he had used in a crime. The.

19:03

Obey. Police had previously certs the

19:05

truck regarding another of my case

19:07

crimes and they'd found nothing and

19:09

released it. The truck essentially

19:11

own by Mccain, although officially registered

19:13

under his common law wife Darlene

19:15

Messes name for insurance purposes was

19:18

found near the site of a

19:20

sexual assault alleged to have occurred

19:22

on February eighteenth. The.

19:24

Truck was seized by authorities and

19:26

taken the Okay police compound. On

19:28

February nineteen, two officers from the

19:31

Senate Police Department inspected the vehicle

19:33

at the compound. Despite. Lacking

19:35

enough evidence to obtain a legal

19:37

search warrant regarding Marguerite tell us

19:39

for its case, Sergeants Harold Mcneil

19:42

and to senior Senator police officers

19:44

decided to seize Mccain Truck for

19:46

further investigation, hoping any evidence found

19:48

would still be admissible in court.

19:51

The. Truck was towed again from Darlene

19:53

mets his house. And impounded

19:55

that the Okay Police compound. Four.

19:58

days later a corporal from the same

20:00

crime scene unit searched the truck and

20:02

discovered a blue pom-pom with a single

20:04

S. F. F. F.'s hair from her

20:07

comb. While the connection

20:09

was uncertain at the time, T. F.

20:11

F.'s foster father recognized the pom-pom as

20:13

potentially being from a missing hat at

20:16

their home, though he admitted

20:18

not seeing it in over a

20:20

year. No, this would be such

20:22

a difficult position for

20:25

the police and for the law, right?

20:27

You want to ensure that you get

20:30

that evidence that you need before it

20:32

disintegrates or gets wiped clean or something,

20:34

but you don't have enough for a

20:36

search warrant. So you take

20:39

that chance, right? Right. And that chance is

20:41

a very dangerous chance to take because it

20:43

can be thrown out of court later on.

20:45

But at the same time, like we don't,

20:48

you know, I think having

20:50

a proper course to get a search

20:53

warrant is very important for society, right?

20:55

We don't want authorities to

20:57

be able to walk into our houses any

20:59

time they want, right? No, yeah. But

21:01

you know, I squeaky

21:05

bum time for the police at this

21:07

when this sort of thing happens, right?

21:09

Like, are we like, is this gonna

21:11

work, right? Yeah, yeah.

21:13

Especially because, you know,

21:15

they didn't have a lot of

21:17

concrete evidence against anybody.

21:21

No, and I

21:23

would not be a good cop. I

21:26

couldn't handle that stress, man. No. The

21:29

pom-pom evidence combined with Scott Ian

21:31

McKay's criminal record made him a

21:33

strong potential suspect in Marguerite's murder

21:35

case. Authorities had him

21:38

in custody because on February 18th police

21:40

had caught him in the act of

21:42

assaulting another young black woman. On

21:46

the day Marguerite disappeared in January 1987,

21:49

McKay had been out on $2,500

21:51

bail after being charged with sexually

21:53

assaulting a different woman back in

21:55

November 1986. Oddly,

21:59

the Crown prosecuted computer, Dennis Murray,

22:01

had agreed to release McKay on

22:03

that bail amount despite him also

22:05

facing charges of unlawfully confining another

22:08

woman in a separate January 1986

22:10

incident. McKay's

22:13

pattern of violence against women and

22:15

pending charges painted him as a

22:18

very viable suspect. He was also

22:20

known to dislike black people and

22:22

for using racial slurs. Disturbingly,

22:25

it came to light that between 1985 and

22:27

1986, Marguerite had briefly worked at

22:31

the same company Greyhound Bus as Scott

22:34

Ian McKay's father and Scott himself had

22:36

briefly been employed there in 1986. Had

22:40

they known each other? This was

22:42

a damning close connection. More

22:45

after a quick break. And

22:57

we are back, Matthew. Thoughts so far? Yeah,

23:00

I had. The biggest thing,

23:02

well, obviously this is horrible,

23:04

but this one

23:06

line you said was just like a

23:08

black people in use of racial slurs.

23:11

There was an actual quote with a

23:13

different word. Yeah. As

23:15

soon as I opened the script and saw a picture

23:17

of her, I was

23:19

like, I don't want this to be

23:21

a hate crime and I hope racism

23:24

isn't involved. Racism

23:27

is so base. It's so

23:29

base. I

23:33

just don't get it. I

23:35

don't get it. I get

23:37

fear of other cultures and not understanding it

23:39

and then coming to. But

23:42

he's a grown ass man, right?

23:45

And that it just really, I don't

23:47

know, it really bothers me. First

23:51

of all, that she

23:53

was murdered, but secondly, I just

23:56

in, It hurt. Like Honestly,

23:58

I feel sick to myself. The market because

24:00

I started thinking of what would if we're

24:03

kind of crap. Would. He have

24:05

been yelling at her before this happened right?

24:07

who knows and the I just find it

24:09

very upsetting. Inmate.

24:11

Michael Walls claim that Scott in Mckay

24:13

had told him that he killed Marguerite.

24:15

Tell us for it. To. Other

24:17

inmates Perry Man Zoc, and

24:20

Danny Cain also came forward,

24:22

flaming. Scott Mckay had confessed

24:24

to them that he murdered

24:26

Marguerite. The. Inmates claim

24:28

that Mckay was making threats about doing

24:30

the same to them, that he had

24:33

left evidence on Marguerite body and where

24:35

he placed her remains. She would have

24:37

been devoured by crabs. Expensive.

24:40

Searches even one involving a psychic

24:42

with a dowsing rod failed to

24:45

uncover marguerite body. Regardless, in

24:47

April Nineteen Eighty Eight, sixteen months

24:49

after her disappearance and with

24:51

no further physical evidence available, the

24:53

authorities felt prepared to proceed

24:55

with charges and a trial. Mckay.

24:58

Who is now serving a twelve year

25:00

sentence at Kent Maximum Security Penitentiary for

25:03

a previous assault. was informed on April

25:05

twentieth that he was being accused of

25:07

marguerite Tell Us for It's murder throughout

25:10

the lengthy journey to Victoria which included

25:12

a five hour drive in a ferry

25:14

ride. Mckay was interrogated by

25:17

police. However, he claimed not

25:19

to know about Tell Us For It's

25:21

disappearance. The case first

25:23

degree murder trial began on January

25:25

eighteen, Nineteen Eighty Nine, exactly two

25:27

years after Margaret Tell us for

25:29

disappeared. The. Crown alleged

25:31

that Mckay now twenty six, made

25:34

verbal sexual advances to Marguerite from

25:36

his truck while she was judging.

25:38

She. Rebuffed him. They. Claimed leading

25:40

him to run her down with his

25:42

truck. Hit. Her with a pry

25:44

bar found of the scene and sued her.

25:47

And. Then dispose of her body. An.

25:49

Expert and hair evidence testified that the

25:52

hair found on the pompom belong to

25:54

a black person and had been similar

25:56

to those found on Marguerite Tell Us

25:58

For It's Hairbrush. Michael.

26:00

Walsh, a regular bridge partner of

26:03

Mckay in jail, testified. wall stated

26:05

that while in custody awaiting trial,

26:07

Mckay had remarked that committing murder

26:09

was probably easier than shoplifting. This

26:11

comment allegedly came after a news

26:13

report about the discovery of a

26:16

body. Walsh. Recalled telling Mckay

26:18

quote, i guess they've got you know

26:20

To which Mckay replied, there's no way

26:22

they could find that body. If.

26:24

I did it. They wouldn't find the

26:26

body. Mckay. Then get a

26:28

weird look in his face and added. Murder.

26:31

Is probably the easiest crime to

26:33

commit. It's easier than shoplifting. And

26:36

quote spoken like a real winner wiener

26:38

you and are two things before the

26:40

so when when I start smoking remains

26:43

as little bit less caring more stick

26:45

sometimes sitter has to when it comes

26:47

to pearls her. And that

26:49

sort of actually quite selling like your

26:52

as a society like a lot of

26:54

as a kind of guy what are

26:56

you doing letting people go and that

26:59

that line murders easier than shoplifting could

27:01

be like. Canada's. National

27:03

slogan right now. Oh dear.

27:05

During the bridge game, Walsh press

27:08

Mckay about his involvement and Marguerite

27:10

murder. He. Testified I ask: did

27:12

you kill this person Because if he did,

27:14

I'm not playing cards with you anymore. Mckay.

27:17

Responded: I'm not saying I'm guilty, I'm

27:19

not saying I'm not. I'm just saying

27:21

I got it beat six ways to

27:23

Sunday. Walsh. Also testified

27:26

that Mckay had offered him a

27:28

five thousand dollar bribe to give

27:30

perjured testimony aimed at discrediting other

27:32

inmate witnesses for the crown. Another

27:35

inmate. Perry. Man Zoc admitted that

27:38

he and Danny Cain had tried to get

27:40

Mckay to reveal where Tell asserts body was.

27:43

thinking. It would give them bargaining

27:45

power. Mans. Like stated, that

27:47

Mckay told them authorities would likely

27:49

arrange their release if they found

27:51

the bodies location. Mans. like

27:53

said mckay also bragged and last

27:55

that police spent one hundred thousand

27:57

dollars to drain a pond looking

27:59

for Marguerite. It isn't often

28:02

that inmates tattle on one

28:04

another. The inmate code within

28:06

prison strictly prohibits inmates from

28:08

acting as informants or rats,

28:11

as it is seen as betraying fellow prisoners.

28:13

Being labeled a rat can lead

28:15

to social isolation, threats, and even

28:17

violence. However, there are

28:19

circumstances where breaking this code may

28:22

be justified or necessary. For

28:24

example, inmates might report issues to

28:26

authorities if personal or family safety

28:29

is at risk or to

28:31

protect against systemic abuse within the prison

28:33

system. Moral convictions

28:35

might compel an inmate to report

28:38

severe offenses like sexual assault or

28:40

murder. In this case, it

28:42

was the fact the murder victim was a

28:44

young woman. Yeah, and it's, you know, a

28:46

lot of people are in jail for different

28:49

things. And just because they're

28:51

in jail doesn't mean they have the same

28:53

complete lack of moral compass. Right.

28:55

Right? Like somebody could have been constantly

28:59

embezzling money, right? That's not

29:01

a murderer, right? Right. They

29:03

still have to play by

29:05

the code in the prison

29:08

or they're gonna have a rough time. Yeah,

29:10

of course, but I just find it

29:12

interesting that we sometimes kind of go oh, all

29:14

the people in jail absolutely no moral code or

29:18

moral conviction, but they're

29:20

not all the same, right? Somebody that

29:22

randomly murders a woman jogging versus somebody

29:24

that's embezzled some money are very different

29:26

people in my mind. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

29:28

Yeah. Scott McKay testified in

29:30

his own defense during his trial. Wearing

29:33

glasses and dressed in a brown

29:35

tweed jacket and gray trousers, under

29:37

questioning from his attorney Gary Canar,

29:39

McKay suggested that fellow inmates who

29:41

had testified against him, claiming

29:43

he confessed to killing Marguerite, had

29:46

fabricated the plot to incriminate him.

29:49

When asked directly, McKay denied killing

29:51

Marguerite or knowing anything about

29:53

her disappearance or current location.

29:56

McKay gave a detailed account of his whereabouts

29:58

on the morning of of Marguerite's

30:00

disappearance. He insisted that he

30:03

and his then partner Darlene Metz were at

30:05

his parents' house the previous evening and returned

30:07

home around 1230 a.m., where

30:10

they stayed until 9 a.m. He

30:13

denied leaving his home at night

30:15

or in the early morning hours

30:17

when Marguerite disappeared. McKay

30:19

also denied a claim by another witness

30:21

that he visited her house around 1230

30:24

a.m., stating it was impossible as he

30:26

was with Darlene at the time. He

30:29

maintained that his truck remained parked at

30:31

his home from the evening of January

30:34

17th through the morning of January 18th.

30:37

Regarding the convicts who testified against him,

30:39

McKay said that two of them approached

30:41

him asking for the location of Tullisford's

30:43

body intending to use the information to

30:46

negotiate with authorities. He denied telling one

30:48

convict that there was something with the

30:50

body that would link him to it,

30:53

instead saying he hoped there was something on

30:55

the body that would connect the real killer

30:57

to it. McKay's parents

30:59

and other prison inmates also

31:02

testified. The parents corroborated

31:04

McKay's alibi for the

31:06

evening before the murder, but there

31:08

were some gaping holes in the

31:10

timeline specifically around the time of

31:12

Marguerite's murder. And the inmates

31:15

testified that the convicts who testified

31:17

for the prosecution had fabricated their

31:19

evidence. One, Danny Kane hated McKay

31:21

as he was alleged to have

31:23

sexually assaulted one of Kane's friends.

31:26

In his closing, the Crown prosecutor said,

31:28

but what I submit did go on

31:30

in addition to everything else, that is,

31:33

in addition to whatever the pry bar

31:35

was used for, in addition to the

31:37

broken earmuffs and how that happened, what

31:39

went on, there was an execution. That

31:42

is an execution that was accomplished

31:44

after having initially run her down.

31:47

If he ran her down and killed her,

31:49

I would be here talking second degree murder.

31:51

But in my submission, he ran her down,

31:53

got out of his truck. He has got

31:55

his gun and pry bar in hand and

31:57

he has got them in hand for a

31:59

reason. The reason is in his mind,

32:01

he said, this is going to be an

32:03

execution." The

32:06

Crown's theory was compelling and

32:08

incriminating despite lacking significant concrete

32:10

evidence. After deliberating

32:12

for 15 hours, the jury

32:15

convicted Scott Ian McKay of first degree

32:17

murder. He received a life

32:19

sentence without the possibility of parole for

32:21

25 years. On

32:23

appeal in 1992, it was found that one

32:26

of the fundamental problems for the Crown in

32:28

the case was that there was no evidence

32:30

that Scott McKay had access to a gun.

32:33

McKay's defense team contended

32:35

that since there was no evidence

32:38

proving he had access to a gun,

32:40

one could not conclude beyond a reasonable

32:43

doubt that he shot Marguerite Tellesford. Before

32:46

even considering whether the shooting was

32:48

planned and deliberate, the fundamental question

32:50

became whether the jury could responsibly

32:52

infer from the available evidence that

32:55

McKay was the person who shot

32:57

and killed Tellesford, if she'd been

32:59

shot at all. An empty

33:01

shotgun shell was discovered along with the

33:03

bloodstains and earmuffs and neighbors reported hearing

33:05

two or three gunshots around the time

33:07

of Marguerite's disappearance and there were also

33:09

reports of Scott McKay's truck in the

33:11

area at the time. Although

33:13

the empty shotgun shell was found near the bloodstains,

33:16

no pellets or wadding were recovered. An

33:19

expert testified that at close range, less than

33:21

10 feet, the wadding would likely have followed

33:23

the shot into the target. Scott

33:26

McKay did not own a shotgun that anyone knew,

33:28

but he had taken a course in 1986 where

33:31

he learned how to handle one. After

33:34

Marguerite Tellesford went missing, a witness claimed

33:36

to have seen a couple of spent

33:38

shotgun shells in a kitchen drawer at

33:40

Scott McKay's home. However, police

33:42

did not recover these so it's unknown if

33:45

they matched the shell found at the Mt.

33:47

Douglas Cross Road. McKay's

33:49

father did own a shotgun but it was

33:51

confirmed not to be the gun that the

33:53

spent cartridge had been fired from. So

33:56

if there was a gun involved, it was

33:58

a different one entirely. and no one knew

34:00

where that one was. The prosecution's

34:03

inability to tie Scott McKay directly

34:05

to the expended shell or any

34:07

shotgun created immense difficulties

34:09

in building their case against him.

34:12

Another issue was the pry bar. McKay

34:14

also denied owning a tool like that

34:17

one found at the crime scene, but

34:19

it was a standard tool used by

34:21

roofers, which as we mentioned, was how

34:23

he earned his money. There

34:25

was no blood on the pry bar or

34:27

fingerprints tying the tool to anyone. With

34:30

these considerations, McKay's defense team successfully

34:32

argued the case from first degree

34:35

to second degree murder. McKay's

34:37

resentencing took place in May 1993. McKay

34:41

addressed the judges personally, sharing

34:43

how the death of his father in 1989 deeply

34:46

affected him with feelings of loss and

34:49

sorrow. He expressed empathy for the parents

34:51

of Marguerite Telesford saying, I

34:53

use those feelings and reflect them toward

34:55

the parents of Marguerite. And

34:58

I understand how they must feel. McKay

35:00

maintained his innocence stating, if

35:03

I could do anything to help them, I would.

35:05

I simply did not do the crime. My

35:08

dad taught me to believe our justice system is

35:10

the best in the world, and I try to

35:12

believe that. But I sincerely

35:14

did not do the crime, so

35:16

I asked for your leniency." End

35:18

quote. Richard Peck, the Crown prosecutor,

35:20

asked for 20 years before parole

35:22

eligibility, reminding the court of

35:24

the violent man they were dealing with. He

35:27

outlined Marguerite's background saying, it was

35:29

essential to know the victim. Peck

35:32

then focused on Scott McKay's character

35:35

and criminal record against women. This

35:38

included four attacks on women in one

35:40

year, the murder of Marguerite Telesford, a

35:43

savage and degrading sexual assault on another

35:45

woman, sexually assaulting a

35:47

prostitute with objects two months before

35:49

Marguerite's murder, and confining another

35:52

prostitute who jumped from his moving car

35:54

to escape. One month

35:56

after Telesford's murder, McKay assaulted another

35:58

woman on an- Oak Bay Beach

36:01

and was in custody since. His

36:03

defense lawyer, Mel Hunt, said McKay

36:05

completed a voluntary treatment program for sex

36:08

offenders in prison and had been a

36:10

heavy user of cocaine and alcohol

36:12

during that year, suggesting a

36:14

minimum of 10 years before

36:16

parole eligibility. However, McKay stated,

36:18

drugs and alcohol were no

36:20

excuse. While denying killing Taliesford,

36:22

he acknowledged his other criminal

36:24

convictions and offered to help her

36:27

parents, quote, get to the bottom

36:29

of this. McKay's

36:53

parole eligibility was reduced from

36:56

25 to 15 years.

36:58

In sentencing, the judge focused on

37:01

McKay's sexual brutality and lack of

37:03

remorse and concluded he

37:05

posed a solid danger to women

37:07

and was unlikely to be rehabilitated.

37:10

He had served six years

37:12

already and could apply for

37:14

parole in 2002.

37:17

In 1998, McKay's attorneys tried

37:19

again to gain freedom for

37:21

the convicted murderer. Mel

37:23

Hunt acknowledged the difficulty of obtaining

37:25

a review of McKay's conviction. Still,

37:28

he believed the DNA evidence, which

37:30

involved a hair found at the

37:32

supposed murder scene, was

37:34

sufficient to justify a review.

37:37

During McKay's original trial nine years

37:39

prior, experts stated that the

37:42

hair found was consistent with a sample

37:44

taken from Taliesford's home. However,

37:46

DNA testing at the time

37:48

was not advanced enough to

37:50

provide a precise match. Hunt

37:53

revealed that recent DNA tests showed

37:56

that the hair did not match

37:58

Taliesford's or McKay's. Please, raising

38:01

the possibility that someone else might have been

38:03

at the crime scene that day. The

38:06

hair was not the only evidence

38:08

against McKay, thank goodness. There

38:11

was also testimony from the prison informants

38:13

who claimed that McKay had discussed the

38:15

killing with them. Most

38:17

importantly though, a single

38:20

pom-pom containing a hair

38:22

confirmed by DNA testing

38:24

to be telescifers was

38:26

found weeks later stuck

38:29

in the undercarriage of McKay's truck.

38:31

So the one on the pom-pom

38:33

was definitely Marguerite's. This

38:36

evidence was sufficient for a

38:38

jury to convict him. However Hunt

38:40

argued that the prison informants lacked

38:42

credibility and suggested that the pom-pom

38:45

might have been planted. The

38:47

appeal, thank goodness, was

38:49

denied. Nobody planted the

38:51

pom-pom. Like, that's a smoking gun right

38:53

there. If the pom-pom don't fit, you

38:56

must acquit Matthew. Oh, and it was

38:58

just... It's like the

39:00

planted glove at OG's place. It

39:03

was under the undercarriage he ran her down. I

39:06

don't know why this one's affecting me so much

39:08

more than others. It's

39:12

not an easy one. It's not an easy

39:14

one at all. Well none of them really

39:16

are. Like when we're talking about murder, none of

39:18

them are easy. Almost every time we do

39:20

this I go, this is the hardest one I've

39:23

ever done. Like almost every time, right? Well

39:25

I'm planning some even harder ones Matthew. Oh stop

39:27

it! Um, yeah that's the smoking gun. Yeah.

39:30

Like I just... You

39:32

look at this guy and you're like... Thoughts

39:35

before we go any further. I don't know

39:37

if he actually shot her. What

39:39

it looks like is he ran her

39:41

over and she was probably killed by

39:43

being run over. Right. But

39:45

maybe the whole shotgun thing

39:48

was, you know, a

39:50

bit of... Maybe

39:52

there is somebody else with him. Maybe.

39:56

Who knows. Who knows. McKay who

39:58

initially pleaded not guilty at his trial. and

40:00

maintained his innocence throughout, later

40:03

acknowledged his role in the murder.

40:05

Even though he asserted he had

40:07

no recollection of the incident, he

40:10

claimed he was likely in an alcohol-induced blackout

40:12

at the time of the murder. He'd

40:15

undergone hypnosis but that failed to

40:17

uncover any memories of the crime

40:19

or where Marguerite's body was. His

40:22

failure to confess fully has been a sticking

40:24

point for the parole board, leading to the

40:26

rejection of his parole requests in 2004, 2011,

40:28

2013, 2015, and 2021. In

40:36

March 2024, that's right, this

40:38

year, the parole board granted

40:41

McKay six months of day parole

40:43

despite labeling him as a moderate

40:45

risk to re-offend. He

40:47

will be under strict supervision in

40:50

the community. His prolonged incarceration is

40:52

attributed to his past violent crimes

40:54

against women, including those

40:57

sexual assaults. Marguerite's foster

40:59

parents, the cows, have found it difficult

41:01

to find closure due to the unresolved

41:03

nature of her murder and the recurring

41:05

parole hearings. Despite their

41:07

forgiveness toward McKay, the

41:09

mystery surrounding Marguerite's remains continues

41:12

to trouble them. On

41:14

the 18th of April 2024, VPD

41:17

issued a press release noting that a

41:19

high-risk offender was set to reside in

41:22

Vancouver. The release reads,

41:25

Police are warning the public that

41:27

Scott McKay, a high-risk sex offender,

41:29

will be residing in Vancouver and

41:31

poses a significant risk to women

41:34

in the community, including sex workers.

41:38

So what I don't understand is

41:41

that you

41:44

just said that the parole board said, Oh,

41:48

we're going to let them out. There's

41:50

a moderate risk he'll re-effect. And

41:52

then the police issue a statement

41:54

saying there is a significant risk to women

41:56

in the community. So what is the

41:59

risk? But is it justice

42:01

system? Is it moderate

42:04

or is it significant? Yeah,

42:06

it's a great question. And I had the same

42:08

question. And I'll tell you one thing. My

42:11

side, I'm with the cops,

42:13

right? Pearl boards

42:16

need a little bit of a bloody

42:18

firecracker up their bums right

42:20

now. They're being way too lenient

42:22

on people. It isn't like

42:25

this guy did one thing once. Look

42:27

at all the crap he did. Yeah, there's

42:29

a record there. I guess to be so

42:31

angry. These pearl boards, I swear to God,

42:33

honestly, pearl boards should be held accountable for

42:36

manslaughter if they let people out

42:38

that re-offend, period. And

42:40

then you'll see them change their tune.

42:42

Well, it's like we mentioned before that

42:45

Ethan Crumbly, the kid who shot

42:48

up Oxford High School in the

42:50

United States there, his parents have

42:53

been found guilty of negligent

42:56

homicide because of what their son did. Yeah,

42:58

and I think Pearl boards should as well.

43:01

Yeah. It's interesting. It's

43:03

interesting. There's a

43:05

chain of events that had things

43:07

not happened, this

43:10

other thing may not have happened. Like

43:12

he was out on bail for sexual

43:15

assault when he killed

43:17

Marguerite Telesford. Something's got

43:19

to change. Yeah. Well, here's

43:21

the description of McKay. McKay, 61,

43:23

is currently on day parole and

43:25

serving a life sentence for convictions

43:27

of sexual assault, forcible confinement, and

43:29

second-degree murder. McKay is 5'10",

43:32

has a slim build, short gray

43:34

hair, and hazel-colored eyes. While

43:36

living in the community, McKay must abide

43:39

by the following conditions. He

43:41

cannot consume, purchase, or possess alcohol.

43:43

He cannot consume, purchase, or

43:45

possess drugs other than prescribed

43:47

medication. He must report

43:49

all contacts with females to his

43:52

parole supervisor. He cannot

43:54

purchase, acquire, possess, or access pornography

43:56

or sexually explicit material in any

43:58

form of sexual assault. or type

44:00

of media. He will have

44:02

a 10 p.m. curfew. He cannot

44:04

own or operate a vehicle except

44:07

in emergency situations where his parole

44:09

supervisor approves and he

44:11

cannot be in the presence of sex workers. Anyone

44:14

who witnesses Scott Ian McKay violating

44:16

these conditions is asked to call

44:18

911 and then they posted a

44:20

picture of Scott Ian McKay. Our

44:23

show notes include a link to the release. According

44:27

to Global News, victims rights

44:29

advocate Dave Tixarra called the

44:32

decision to release McKay baffling.

44:34

Quote, he has not

44:36

demonstrated remorse or cooperation in the long

44:38

term to bring closure to this family

44:41

and it seems that in many cases

44:43

parole boards and review boards lean towards

44:45

letting someone out after a certain amount

44:48

of time because they've earned it and

44:50

it proves their systems are working. Tixarra

44:52

said it seems to

44:55

be another instance that a parole

44:57

board is disregarding the safety of

44:59

Canadians. End quote. And

45:01

that's it for Dark Poutine episode

45:03

316, Morning Run Cut Short, the murder of

45:05

Marguerite Tellesford.

45:22

That's right. It's time for voicemails.

45:26

You can leave us a message at 1-877-327-5786 or

45:31

1-877-DARK-PTN. We'd love to hear

45:33

from you. Let's see who

45:35

called us this week. Alright,

45:40

here is our first voicemail. Let's

45:42

have a listen. Funny,

45:45

I got to listen to that. Okay,

45:47

sorry. Hi, Mike and Matthew. I'm

45:50

so excited to finally be making this call. It's

45:52

been a few years coming and there's

45:54

a reason for that. I'm going to get to it in a

45:56

sec, but I know you guys

45:58

don't know me, but my name is Megan and I'm I'm from

46:00

Calgary, Alberta. I've been

46:02

a long time listener and Dark Poutine was

46:04

actually the first podcast I ever listened to

46:06

back in 2020. So thank

46:09

you for keeping me company during the

46:11

quarantine years and keeping my motivation up

46:13

through online university courses. Anyways,

46:16

the reason I said this call is a

46:18

long time coming is because I told myself

46:20

that I wouldn't call in until I

46:22

graduated university, which I did just about

46:25

a week ago. And

46:27

I completed a degree in criminal justice

46:30

with a minor in psychology at Mount

46:32

Royal University. And I wanted

46:34

to wait until now to truly thank you both

46:36

for all the hard work and the compassion you

46:39

put into each episode. It's

46:41

partly because of you guys, I'm actually

46:43

pursuing a career with vulnerable youth through

46:46

reactive and preventative measures. And

46:48

I just really appreciate how you keep

46:50

the focus on the victims and acknowledge

46:52

that these stories are real and

46:54

have real impacts on everyone to some extent.

46:58

So anyways, I appreciate you both so

47:00

much. Sorry if this is a

47:02

bit of a longer voicemail, but I've been waiting

47:04

four years to say it and I am not

47:06

ashamed. Go take a shit in your

47:08

hat. Thanks,

47:10

bye. Oh,

47:13

awesome. That is

47:15

so good. Congratulations.

47:18

Congratulations. Congratulations. Yes,

47:20

you have matriculated. I

47:23

love that she like stuck to her guns and

47:25

didn't call us until after she finished. Yeah, it's

47:27

like you set a goal for yourself and

47:30

we're the reward after that

47:32

apparently. That's

47:34

fantastic. Well, you know. I wonder

47:37

if we can get honorary degrees.

47:40

Duh. I

47:43

don't know what I would ever get an

47:45

honorary degree in. In criminology. I

47:47

don't know, no. No, no. I

47:49

don't, you know, I don't

47:51

deign to even begin. You

47:55

have an honorary degree in awesomeness, Mike.

47:57

Duh. Well, yeah. I'll

48:00

go with that. That'll be fine. Well, thank

48:02

you for calling. That's great. I love that.

48:04

That was a great voicemail. It wasn't too

48:07

long at all either. She lives in Calgary

48:09

and she goes, she went to university and

48:11

did two great things, a great major and

48:13

a great minor. But maybe

48:16

she did a job, Matthew, to help her

48:18

to get through school. What might

48:20

that have been, do you think? DJ

48:22

at Badlands during the

48:25

Calgary Stampede. They

48:27

have like an EDM tent as

48:29

well. So there's a lot of this. Yeah.

48:37

So she was a DJ at Badlands

48:39

in the summers. Yeah. There you

48:41

go. Well, yeah. Thank you so much.

48:43

And we hope you have a long

48:45

and fruitful career ahead of you in

48:48

whatever you choose to pursue. All right.

48:52

We have another voicemail. Let's have a peek.

48:55

Hi, Mike. Hi, Matt. My

48:57

name is Sarah. I'm calling

48:59

from Winnipeg, the murder capital

49:02

of Canada. I'm

49:05

a long time listener, first

49:07

time caller, and I just got

49:10

finished listening to the last

49:12

episode that you had on Barbara Stoppel.

49:15

And I wanted to let you

49:18

guys know, I don't know if you

49:20

guys have found the articles yet, but

49:22

the Crown Prosecutor

49:25

is now being investigated. George

49:29

Dangerfield, five of

49:31

his cases were

49:35

turned over and they were wrongfully

49:37

convicted. So that includes Thomas

49:40

Offino, the

49:45

James Driscoll, my

49:49

cousin, Kyle Unger. And currently

49:53

they are now they just did

49:55

one for two Indigenous men

49:58

in Winnipeg, who he. was

50:01

the prosecutor and they were wrongfully

50:03

convicted. They were just released. Anyways,

50:07

there was five. I can't remember the fifth.

50:09

I think it was Ostrowski. But

50:12

there's now five of his cases

50:14

that have been turned over and

50:16

the people have been released and

50:19

he's now being investigated. So again, that

50:21

guy's name was George

50:24

Dangerfield. Yeah,

50:27

George Dangerfield. Anyways, yeah,

50:32

just wanted to let you guys know. Hopefully,

50:34

maybe you guys can look into that. Yeah,

50:38

and thanks for doing what you do and

50:41

go take a shit in your hat. Bye.

50:44

Bye. Yeah, I'd heard

50:46

about that and I

50:49

debated whether or not to add

50:51

it because it would have caused a lot

50:53

of discussion, I think. And I

50:55

didn't want to go down

50:57

that road. I'm more interested in

50:59

let's see what happens to this

51:02

guy and then we will deal

51:04

with him because I'm really curious about

51:07

how that's going to happen. I'm aware of

51:09

Kyle Unger's case too. Interesting

51:11

that he's your cousin. That's

51:13

a really fascinating case. So this

51:17

guy, I don't know. I don't

51:20

really want to diss a

51:22

lawyer today. But

51:27

I guess we'll see if he's

51:29

George Dangerfield or Rodney Dangerfield and

51:31

how we did it. Right, exactly.

51:34

Yeah. Thanks for coming in. Yeah,

51:36

we really appreciate it. And

51:39

last one. Hi guys.

51:42

I've called before but I haven't even heard

51:44

it played. And

51:48

now I'm wondering if maybe it didn't go

51:50

through or if I was one of

51:52

the people that maybe was me. I hope

51:55

not. No. Yeah,

52:00

my name is Lisa. I live in

52:02

Burnaby. And I've been listening to

52:04

the show for a few years now, and I quite enjoy

52:06

it. And I

52:08

just want to say hi

52:11

to you guys and to Steve. Um...

52:14

Ah. Okay, yeah. Apologies

52:18

for the echoes. And that worked. That

52:21

one on my job. Okay. That's

52:23

really it. Oh, and

52:26

I've recommended you to a bunch of my friends,

52:28

and I've also recommended you to my friends

52:30

to your other podcast, Supernatural

52:33

Circumstances, which is also really

52:35

awesome. Ogo Pogo. I

52:38

still have to do Okanagan, so

52:41

that one was special to my heart. So thank

52:43

you very much. And

52:45

you guys have a great day. Okay, thanks. Bye. Thank

52:50

you. I don't remember hearing your voice before, so...

52:52

No. I don't know if we

52:54

actually got your voicemail. Yeah, we definitely did

52:56

not intentionally miss your voicemail. No. No, definitely

52:58

not. Thank you so much. I love it

53:00

when people say it to Stevie as well.

53:03

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um,

53:05

well, Steve is fantastic. So she

53:07

said that there's echoes at her

53:10

job. What do you think

53:12

maybe that she does there, Matthew, if

53:14

there's echoes? Does she work in a

53:16

cave? No. No. It's

53:19

a hangar, airport

53:22

hangar. Oh, is it like

53:24

a hangar where there's like secret sort

53:27

of things happening, like Area 51, the

53:29

place we approached? No, it's

53:31

a bit simpler than that. It's where

53:33

the secret, the thesis airplanes go.

53:36

Oh, okay. So our own secret

53:38

service type people. So the ones

53:40

that are listening to us right

53:42

now. Yes. Ah.

53:44

Yes, so she

53:47

works in that airport hangar, making

53:49

sure that everyone keeps secretive. Well,

53:52

there you go. Sorry to blow your cover.

53:55

Well, nobody knows where it is. She

53:58

said Burnaby, but nobody knows. knows exactly.

54:02

I can see Burnaby from my window. That's

54:05

it for this week's voicemails. Again,

54:07

you can leave us one at 1-877-327-5786 or 1-877-DARKPTN. We'd

54:16

love to hear from you, even if it is just to

54:19

say hi and to tell us to go shit in our

54:21

hats. If you're stumped for what

54:23

to chat with us about, a quick story

54:25

is welcome. We don't have any patrons or

54:27

Donut Money donors this week, but we love

54:29

you anyway, so keep

54:32

coming back and hanging out and

54:34

listening and doing what you do.

54:38

Thanks to all our patrons and Donut

54:40

Money donors past and present for your

54:42

generosity. It helps to keep the show

54:44

going. You can become a patron of

54:47

Dark Poutine at patreon.com/darkpoutine. For

54:49

a one-time donation, you can send us

54:51

Donut Money via PayPal using our email

54:53

address, darkpoutinepodcastatgmail.com.

54:57

If you don't already subscribe to the show,

54:59

it would mean a lot if you did.

55:01

You can easily find Dark Poutine on Apple

55:03

Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your

55:05

favorite shows. If you haven't

55:07

gotten yours yet, my book Murder Madness

55:10

and Mayhem is available to order via

55:12

a link on the Dark Poutine website.

55:14

And speaking of darkpoutine.com, please check it

55:16

out for show notes and other cool

55:18

stuff. We'd appreciate it if you took the

55:20

time to give Dark Poutine a like or a follow

55:23

on Facebook and Instagram. Most importantly,

55:25

thank you for listening. And tell

55:27

your friends about us. Word of mouth is a powerful

55:29

thing. And

55:33

that's it for this episode of Dark Poutine.

55:36

So until next time, don't forget to be

55:38

a good egg and not a bad apple.

55:41

Goodbye y'all. Goodbye. Bye.