0:11

Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance

0:13

podcast. I'm Dirk Durham and I'm

0:15

in the beautiful state of Oregon

0:18

with my good friend Ron

0:21

Hewitt. Now. Ron

0:23

is a man who I admire

0:26

and look up to. He's like

0:28

almost like a grandfather type figure to me, or

0:30

a fatherly figure. You know, my dad,

0:33

my grandfathers have all long

0:35

passed away, and I feel

0:37

like that's something that's important in a person's

0:40

life, is to have someone like that to

0:43

talk to and to talk about life

0:45

and hunting and and just

0:48

you know, we've been bouncing ideas off

0:50

each other all weekend here, you

0:53

know, talking about just life, life

0:55

decisions and and things we did in life.

0:57

And it's awesome to have that kind of a

0:59

person to talk to. And

1:02

I think I think society today

1:04

kind of misses out on some of

1:06

that. You know, there's such a big push

1:09

with some political folks to

1:11

take down the patriarchy and all this stuff.

1:14

But I think that's that's it's an important

1:16

thing we all need in our life because

1:19

we can learn a lot from the people

1:21

who've done things a lot longer than we have

1:23

and have kind of learned went through life, done

1:26

some things, made mistakes, made the right

1:28

choices, and here we are

1:30

talking about turkey hunting and elk

1:32

hunting. What am I doing in Oregon?

1:34

Well, I'm over here at Ron's every

1:36

year for the last four years he's hosted me. He's

1:38

like, you know, you got to come over and go turkey hunting.

1:41

It seems like we're kind of hit and miss. You know what,

1:43

one year I'll get one and one year I won't.

1:45

One year I get two, and one year I don't,

1:47

you know, and kind of back and forth. But it wasn't

1:50

for a lack of opportunity. Sometimes

1:53

I'm just not the straightest of shooters with

1:56

a shotgun, Like how do you miss a turkey with a

1:58

shotgun? But anyway,

2:00

welcome to the show. Ron. I've

2:03

talked a lot about you on I've

2:05

talked to you about you on my podcast. I've talked

2:07

to you about you on Jim Huntsman's podcast because

2:09

Jim knows you, and I

2:12

finally I've got you on the podcast

2:14

to talk to you. So welcome.

2:16

Thanks Derek. I really appreciate it,

2:18

and I love talking with young

2:20

people like you that are excited about I call

2:22

you young because I'm twenty two years older.

2:24

But I appreciate that and

2:27

the fact that you want to mentor people and help them,

2:29

and that you're love

2:32

for hunting in life and your love

2:34

for happiness and family. It really means

2:36

a lot to me. Your friendship means a

2:38

lot. Yeah.

2:40

Yeah, it's crazy where people

2:43

people's lives intersect

2:46

and we've been talking about your life,

2:48

We've been talking about my life, you know, and non

2:50

hunting life, and you know where

2:52

we've lived, what we've done for work, all these

2:54

different things places we've been,

2:57

and it's funny we have these little

2:59

places in our lives that have intersected.

3:01

And we didn't know each other. We still

3:03

had never known each other or ever knew

3:06

of each other, ever existed until

3:10

I think it was a few several years ago.

3:12

On both side, there's a there's a forum

3:15

online forum called bo site, and

3:17

I would always get on there and read people's comments

3:20

on topics and questions, and I'd try to

3:22

put in my two cents, and one day

3:24

Ron messages me direct messages

3:27

me on there and said, so, I think you talked

3:29

to something about you know, this area

3:31

in North Idaho that I hunted and

3:34

wondered if I hunted there is near the town I grew

3:36

up and wondered,

3:38

you know, wanted to kind of compare a little bit of notes, and we kind

3:41

of start talking there a little bit. And then fast forward

3:43

a few years and you start

3:45

seeing me on YouTube hunting,

3:48

and you came by the booth in Portland

3:50

at the Portland Show and introduced

3:52

yourself, and we sat

3:54

there and that booth and I we

3:57

talked a long time, and we were like a couple of little

3:59

schoolgirls, you know, and we look nothing

4:01

like schoolgirls, but we sat

4:03

there and talked and got excited and

4:05

talked about those old places we'd like we'd

4:08

love to go and their experiences those places

4:10

elk hunting, and we became

4:12

fast friends. Yep. And then you started

4:14

inviting me over, so ye must.

4:17

Need to come over and try turkey hunting the way I

4:19

hunt turkeys in Oregon, not just

4:21

sitting waiting for them to come

4:23

to you, right, but finding them right.

4:26

Yeah. And and let's

4:29

face it, you know there's people. There's the camp

4:31

that loves turkey hunting, and then there's the

4:33

camps that say turkey hunting stupid. And

4:36

I feel like people that say turkey

4:39

hunting stupid or whatever, and then they hear the comparison

4:41

of elk hunting versus

4:43

turkey hunting, and people say, you know, there's a

4:45

lot of similarities. You know, they they're kind

4:47

of like hunting elk in the spring, and

4:50

then that that will inflame some people they're

4:52

like, it has it, there's nothing that

4:55

they're nothing the similar But depending

4:58

on how you hunt the turkeys and haunt

5:00

elk, there are some similarities

5:03

for sure.

5:03

A lot of similarities. Is the way we hunt, the way

5:05

you and I hunt both of them. Yeah, very

5:08

similar yes, yes, And

5:11

why I like turkey hunting. What I like

5:14

about turkey hunting, Let's say, let's say this. What I

5:16

like about turkey hunting is it's

5:19

one of the best times of the.

5:20

Year to be in the woods and

5:22

the fall. I love elk hunting and deer hunting.

5:25

The food the fall, like in September

5:28

is amazing. You know, you're getting those last

5:30

few days of summer, but you're

5:32

starting to get those crisp mornings of fall. You

5:34

still hear birds, you still hear bees,

5:37

and then then the woods transition

5:39

into October November, and it

5:41

gets colder. Now the bugs are going dormant,

5:43

the birds have left, and it's quiet.

5:46

It's like the most quiet time

5:48

you can he have in the woods is in

5:50

like November, when there's a little bit of snow

5:52

to like absorb any sound. There's

5:55

not a bunch of birds flying around, there's

5:57

no bugs, and the

5:59

only sound you hear is your breath.

6:02

And you also may hear a

6:05

wolf, you may hear a deer grunt,

6:08

you may hear some of these little little wildlife

6:10

sounds. You might hear a

6:13

squirrel in a tree. But the

6:15

woods get very quiet

6:17

in November, and

6:21

then that kind of sets the stage for me. Things

6:23

get quiet. Life kind of gets quiet for me. After

6:26

hunting season, I kind of go dormant

6:28

too. I kind

6:30

of hibernate once I'm hunting season's over. I've

6:32

been go, go go, and I've always been like

6:34

this, you know, lots of driving to get to

6:37

and from my hunting spots, spend tons of time

6:39

in the woods, and then a

6:41

lot of time away from family. And it's now time

6:43

I'm going to hibernate. Now I'm gonna

6:46

dedicate all this time to my family and staying

6:48

home and in all winter long. Now I'm

6:50

cooped up all winter, and by the

6:52

time spring comes, I am ready

6:55

to get the hell out of the house. I'm

6:57

just sick of looking at four walls. I've got cabin

6:59

feed, I've done all my stuff, whatever,

7:02

my winter stuff, and it's like, I

7:04

got to get to the woods now. Now contrast,

7:06

you go to the woods in the springtime, the

7:09

woods are starting to wake up, and year to years

7:11

a little different on timing. You know, sometimes in April,

7:13

you know, it's a little slower to wake up because it's been a

7:15

little colder. You still have a little snow on the ground. This

7:18

year, there's not any

7:20

snow on the ground up where we were at to speak

7:22

of. And it seems like we're a little further

7:24

along in the in the seasonal aspect,

7:26

it seemed, you know, the date aspect is the same, but

7:28

the seasonal aspect is a little a

7:31

little different. You know, we got bugs buzzing around,

7:33

we got birds tweeting, and you

7:35

know, and you got a little bit

7:37

of warm sunshine. But today,

7:40

today, but the last two days,

7:43

was this frigid, ice cold

7:47

wind that was blowing off the mountains and it's

7:49

like, man, it's so pretty out, but dang, I'm

7:51

freaking cold.

7:52

You either thought it was the middle of November.

7:54

Yeah, right right? Is that cold?

7:58

But that's what I like about turkey, honey. It

8:00

just gets get It gets me out there. I

8:02

get to enjoy the woods, waking

8:04

up in the spring, reconnect

8:06

with nature, Yeah, reconnect. And

8:09

also I love spending time with

8:11

good friends in the woods and turkey

8:13

season it allows

8:16

me to do that. I spend time with my friends

8:18

and people I love and enjoy

8:21

their companionship. And guess what, we're

8:24

chasing this crazy thing called the turkey.

8:26

And they do some stuff that pissed

8:28

me off, and they also do

8:31

some stuff that make me giggle and be

8:33

happy. So they can be

8:35

frustrating, but yet they could be pretty dang

8:37

fun to hunt too. So what

8:39

is what do you feel? Is that kind of how you see

8:42

turkey hunting or what do you like about turkey hunting?

8:44

Yeah? I think I started

8:46

turkey hunting back in about nineteen ninety

8:48

one or ninety two, and it was

8:51

the fact that I'd

8:53

been hunting elk, beagling for elk, and

8:55

I knew turkey's gobbled and you can make them gobble.

8:57

Yeah, this was I'm going, Okay, I want I

9:00

want to hear this, I want to experience this, and when

9:02

I was a kid. I lived in Redmond and up

9:05

deer hunting a turkey full out of a tree one

9:07

day and just scared the daylights out of me. And

9:09

I thought, man, I want to find one of those things and

9:12

get it and eat it, because I liked the fordage

9:14

and take home things to eat. And when

9:18

we lived and we're moved to now,

9:20

it's like there's turkeys all around, and

9:23

I started hunting them, and the gobble

9:25

on the roost just excites you. But then when

9:27

they start coming in, it's really

9:29

exciting. And that was what really

9:31

drew me to it, is that the similar

9:33

is between calling elkin calling a turkey

9:35

in the excitement of it and

9:38

like you say, the springtime, I love getting

9:40

out here in the weather and enjoying the

9:43

sunshine and not so much

9:45

the wind. I don't like that because it makes it really hard

9:47

hunting. You can't hear anything, and it's kind of windy

9:49

here. Oh it's kind of windy here. But

9:54

yeah, that's the draw for

9:56

me, is to I just love being outside in the

9:58

woods and I can get out there

10:00

more.

10:01

Yeah, I will say,

10:04

while I'm turkey hunting, then

10:07

I'll be going along. And we got

10:10

these turkeys coming in or we're calling

10:12

to these turkeys. And the funny part,

10:14

the elk hunter brain in me immediately

10:16

says, the wind is wrong. They're

10:20

gonna smell me. I like, the turkeys are coming

10:22

from this way, They're gonna smell me, like like immediately,

10:24

that's the first thing that enters my head, like the wind's

10:26

wrong. We got to move, and I'm like, oh yeah, we're hunting

10:28

turkeys. It's it's that funny little

10:31

hunter instinct. Like I've been

10:33

hunting elk for thirty five years. I've been hunting.

10:35

I've been hunting turkeys

10:38

longer than that. If you can believe

10:40

that, I've been hunting

10:42

turkeys longer than that, really, and I've been

10:44

more successful successful hunting

10:47

turkeys than elk. I mean, excuse me,

10:49

elk than turkeys. I've killed more elk

10:51

than I have turkey. I've killed lot of turkeys, but I've killed

10:53

way more elk. But anyway,

10:58

there's the little things that trick in

11:00

my brain while elk hunting trigger as

11:02

well during turkey hunting. The

11:05

turkey's coming in down when we got to move, Oh

11:07

you don't, it's a turkey. Oh yeah, oh yeah,

11:09

I have to remind myself that. And

11:11

then as they're coming in, they're getting

11:14

closer and getting gobbling, and I

11:16

start feeling that my heart

11:19

start beating a little bit heavier and faster, and

11:21

I start feeling my breathing change,

11:24

and I'm like, I'm starting to feel

11:26

that same same feeling when

11:28

I'm hunting elk. Now, when I'm hunting elk, I feel

11:31

like it's a little more drastic. It's a it's a

11:33

bigger heart beat, it's a bigger labor breathing.

11:36

Right, I'm going making

11:40

that funny breathing while I'm this bull's coming

11:42

in. But I'm starting to feel

11:44

some of those same things arise of same

11:46

emotions with it was the turkey

11:49

comes in. So you

11:51

know, people pay good money for all sorts of like

11:54

ways to to get an adrenaline rush.

11:56

You know, they jump out of airplanes, they bungee

11:58

jump, they do crazy reckless

12:01

driving, they do all kinds of weird things to get

12:03

an adrenaline rush. And those

12:06

turkey hunting and elk huntings kind of

12:08

scratch those itches. Now. Of

12:10

course, elk hunting is a complete way, bigger

12:12

adrenalage and rush. I got a eight hundred

12:14

pound animal with swords on his head,

12:17

coming coming to kill me, whereas

12:19

a turkey he might he might peck you and flog

12:21

you,

12:25

he might spur me. That's

12:27

not gonna happen, but you know, or the Elk's

12:29

not gonna kill me once they find out I'm gonna I'm another

12:31

animal, but they think like the turkey actually

12:34

is coming in to breed rather than to fight, but

12:36

the elk, he's coming to fight a lot of times. But

12:39

anyway, it still triggers those same emotions.

12:41

And I yeah

12:43

that I like that. I like those feelings.

12:46

You know, you just everyday

12:48

life, normal life, you just don't get

12:50

them. You know, there's there's

12:52

not anything that really duplicates

12:54

that unless you're doing daredevil

12:57

stupid stuff. And I'm too old

12:59

at our age, we just

13:01

don't do that, you know.

13:04

Yeah.

13:05

But part of it too is

13:07

like in the morning when you when you find them

13:09

on the roost and you're moving in the

13:11

dark. Okay, where am I going to? Just like elk, am I

13:13

gonna set up? I need a path I can

13:15

get a shot in here. And then you

13:17

get all set up and give

13:19

them a few little calls and they're gobbling away

13:22

at you and then they go quiet

13:24

for five to ten minutes

13:26

before they fly down and they're

13:28

looking for their spot. You know, they're going to fly down,

13:30

make sure there's no predators down there, and they

13:33

go quiet, and you go, Okay, what's going to

13:35

happen today? Easy? Got hands? Are they gonna

13:37

take them away? They're gonna come to me? And

13:39

then you wait for the drama to unfold

13:41

once they hit the ground. Yeah, you never

13:44

know.

13:44

There's a lot of anticipation there. There

13:46

is, Like I find myself same with Elk.

13:48

I'll be like, oh man, please let this

13:51

happen, Please let this happen. I have this little thin

13:53

in the back of my little voice in the back of my head, please please

13:55

let this happen, because I'm super

13:57

hopeful they'll come in able

14:00

to shoot them, but knowing

14:02

that it doesn't work that way all the time. And it's

14:04

just like most of the time most especially yeah,

14:07

most of the time, even Elk, it doesn't

14:10

work that way. But

14:13

but there's always a chance, and you think, is this the

14:15

one? You know, I'm like, I don't want to screw this up. So

14:19

yeah, all those same emotions, do

14:22

you think So do you

14:24

think hunting turkeys is like cutting elk.

14:26

Oh I think it is. I mean, obviously

14:29

there's a size of difference you can see coming

14:31

in once the

14:33

brush and grass start growing up. A turkey, all

14:35

you can see is the head sometimes and it's

14:38

harder to get a lock

14:40

on turkeys that way that it is an elk. But

14:43

the turkeys, like you say, they can't smell, you don't

14:45

worry about the wind. And yeah,

14:48

I've I think there's a lot

14:50

of similarities there and I just love it

14:52

for the thrill of calling

14:55

them in, you know, to try to beat them at their

14:57

game.

14:58

Now, when turkeys hang up, elk hang

15:00

up, they I

15:02

think this might be crazy opinion.

15:05

I think it's easier to move in

15:07

on a bull elk that's hung up than it

15:09

is a turkey that's hung up. Because

15:11

elk are so big. They make a lot of noise.

15:14

You can they're standing, their their

15:17

their face, their head gear, their bodies

15:19

are at a level that sometimes

15:22

above the brush line, and you can kind

15:24

of spot them a little easier than you can

15:26

a turkey. Like a turkey, they blend in so good

15:28

unless they're and if they're not moving and where

15:30

they're at, they're like their bodies are a lot of times are

15:32

hidden by brush if it's a

15:34

little bit you know, brushy country, But

15:36

they got that damn periscope head. They'll

15:38

pick up over the over

15:41

the bushes, and a lot

15:43

of times you just can't see it until it's too late and you

15:45

hear and

15:47

then go the way they go.

15:50

So I think, I think it's easier to like

15:53

move in on a hung up bull elk than it is a turkey.

15:55

I agree, because the turkey's head is always

15:58

moving. They're they're bob their

16:00

head all around when their heads up and they're down feeding

16:02

and they pick it up and jerk it around again, looking

16:04

and yeah, like yesterday we saw

16:07

him in the sun. He's out there fanning for his

16:09

hands. He wouldn't come into us

16:11

because he had his little ladies already, and

16:14

we started moving in on him. Well, we

16:16

get up close where we put the stock up

16:18

to this one train. I thought we could get to get him

16:20

there. He had moved, so

16:22

now we have to move up again. So we sneak on

16:24

up and I'm kind of looking over the edge

16:27

where it goes into the shadows and the shade and

16:29

I'm going looking through this little fir tree.

16:31

I go oh, I think I see him down there. I

16:33

thought, oh, there's his head. It's red, you

16:35

know. I get my gun up on my shooting stick and go,

16:39

dang it. I can't tell for sure if it's a tom or

16:41

what. I'm sure it's the tom, but I can't

16:44

tell for sure. And then he starts

16:46

fanning. Okay, so he's fanning, and

16:48

then he goes out of strut and I go, well, I can't

16:50

see his head now, you know what

16:53

did we do that for five minutes at least?

16:54

Yeah, it was very intense.

16:56

Yeah it was. And then I'm trying to side step

16:58

real slow so I can get a really

17:00

good look at him. And by the time I get over

17:02

there where I can see, he's not there. So

17:05

it's like, gol, dang it. We

17:07

head down the hill really slow, and I'm looking

17:09

in front of me to the right because that's

17:11

kind of where he was, had that, I think, And all

17:13

of a sudden I catch him off on the left, the hand of the tom,

17:16

and they start moving. And that was the

17:18

end of the story on that one.

17:20

Yeah. Yeah, but well that was

17:22

so close, and that turkey you

17:24

could have shot.

17:25

I could have shot him through the tree if I

17:28

knew what it.

17:28

Was right right, and that as

17:31

responsible sportsman hunters, we

17:33

identify our target. Yeah, you know what

17:35

if that would have been a guy down

17:38

there moving his hat brim and you thought, oh,

17:40

yeah, I see something moving and there have been

17:42

turkeys there. The turkeys had bypassed him,

17:44

but there was a guy sitting there and you're like, oh, yeah,

17:46

I think I see something, I see something red. Maybe bang,

17:49

you shoot that guy right in the nose or

17:52

you know, it can happen. People get shot every

17:54

year to hunting, So there's that aspect.

17:56

It's not safe around other hunters. You could

17:58

shoot another hunter then all also just

18:03

catching the right movement, you think you see

18:05

red, you shoot this turkey you

18:07

get down there, it could be a hen. You know, we and

18:09

it's it's easy to make that mistake and

18:11

in a split second and you're

18:14

sometimes your eyes will play a trick on you and

18:16

like you and I don't know if it's because we wanted

18:19

to like happen so bad. It's like, oh, yeah, that's the that's

18:21

the tom. And then you shoot and then oh my

18:23

gosh, that's not the tom.

18:25

So that would be an unfortunate situation too. So we

18:27

have to be super mindful

18:30

of of what we're shooting at. And

18:32

and that goes for for elk too, ye,

18:35

elk deer, you name it. I mean that's you know,

18:37

you know, have to make sure it's the right

18:39

the right animal and not a

18:41

person, and you know, get a good,

18:44

good ethical shot.

18:46

So and like yesterday, I you know,

18:48

if I did shoot it and the hen was in

18:50

and then I get two of them and so

18:52

I could not tell for sure where the hen was and I

18:54

needed to know that. So yeah,

18:57

it was just a it was

18:59

frustrating to say the least.

19:00

Yeah, with a scatter gun or a shotgun, I mean,

19:02

yeah, there's blowback. I mean you can take

19:05

out two or three turkeys. It was at

19:07

one like those jakes that come in, I could

19:09

there was one. We had six jakes come in the morning.

19:11

I shot my my turkey, and if I had to

19:13

line them up just right, I probably could have mowed the whole works

19:15

down. Yeah,

19:19

they figure was Yeah, that was

19:21

awesome.

19:22

Oh yeah, and the two big toms strut

19:24

in the background behind them.

19:27

Yeah.

19:40

Some of the mistakes I don't talk about mistakes

19:42

made the last couple of days and

19:45

what we did right, we didn't

19:47

make a lot of mistakes, but I will say one mistake

19:49

that I made as people

19:51

don't and I didn't, and I know I

19:53

knew better, but I didn't bring a range finder

19:56

with me. You know, we're shooting with a shotgun, and I didn't bring

19:58

my range finder. And I'm like, oh, yeah,

20:00

I can judge yards pretty get out to fifty yards or

20:02

whatever. I'll shoot a turkey at fifty yards

20:04

with my with my shotgun. And

20:07

we had this these birds they come

20:09

off the roost and they came up, took a line a little higher

20:12

than us, and and we had to get up and

20:14

sneak up, sneak up, sneak up to try to intersect

20:17

them. As they come strutting by. They weren't coming

20:19

to us. They were gonna kind of go over and they

20:21

were kind of feeding along, but they would strut everything, going

20:23

to strut every now and then and

20:25

then but as as they start,

20:27

as we see what's happening, we got to climb up this

20:29

little hill just a little bit real slow and maybe

20:32

try to intersect intercept them.

20:35

And I get up there, get up

20:37

there and get a position. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm

20:40

pretty sure that turkey's close, and he's he's fifty

20:42

yards, you know, and I put my

20:45

my red dot on him and

20:47

and I shoot, and I

20:49

watched my pellets from my shotgun fall

20:51

about twenty yards short, and

20:54

I and he just kind of like kind of jumps

20:56

up and flops his feathers a little bit, like what the

20:58

heck was that, and then just kind of walks off. Him and the

21:00

other turkey just kind of walk off. They might even gobbled.

21:02

I think when they shot.

21:03

They did they had another one down below.

21:05

A step too, and then they just kind of walked

21:07

off, and I'm like, dang it. So after they got out

21:10

of sight, I walk up there and I stepped it off and

21:12

it's seventy five yards and I'm like, how did I

21:14

How did I misjudge seventy five yards for

21:16

fifty yards?

21:17

Well, in all fairness on that one,

21:20

it wasn't It wasn't a bright

21:22

morning because there were some clouds in the sky and

21:24

it was only like twenty minutes after

21:27

fly down you on into shooting light. Yeah,

21:29

and when you did shoot, I saw the flame come out

21:31

of your gun. So it was not a bright

21:33

you know, it wasn't really good light for judging,

21:35

and It was really hard to tell on that one.

21:37

And I'm used to judging elk yard

21:40

bigger than judge. Yeah, and I'm like, you know, you're

21:42

gonna try to look at this little bird compared

21:44

to an elk, and you're like, I think that's

21:47

close enough.

21:47

No, when you shot, you thought

21:49

it was a robbin out there.

21:51

Yeah, yeah,

21:54

shoot, but you know that is one mistake

21:57

I made for sure. So fast

21:59

fast forward. That was opening morning,

22:01

yep. And we had all this hope

22:04

and all this We felt pretty good about

22:06

it, and then just our opportunity slipped us by, and

22:08

then those turkeys they kept gobbling. But man, those

22:10

things will cover country like they

22:12

took off. They took off. They didn't ever run,

22:15

but they were at Turkey just walking

22:17

a normal pace.

22:18

Once.

22:18

If they're not feeding, they just kind of start walking.

22:20

They will outdistance you, kind of

22:22

like an help easily.

22:24

Yep. Yeah, we kind

22:26

of followen over to they dropped into the next

22:28

canyon and we could hear them

22:30

over there at times, and they kind of disappeared. Here's

22:33

something across the canyon, and then they shut up

22:36

and it's like then the wind started

22:38

picking up, which makes it

22:40

just about impossible to hear across the canyons.

22:43

So what we decided

22:46

to bail out of there and head to another area. I knew

22:48

that was more sheltered, and

22:52

I have cameras set up there and I can

22:54

I kind of watch what time they come through

22:56

these areas, you know, just to have an idea of

22:58

when to be around to call him.

23:00

And went up to another area and

23:02

set there, and what we called for

23:06

our hour and twenty minutes. Yeah,

23:08

you know, Dirk's setting under the tree,

23:10

all cameled with a shot and up ready and

23:12

wait, and Ron's leaning against

23:14

a different tree, kind of gazing around. Pretty

23:16

soon he gets cold, so he slips out in

23:18

the sunshine and takes his pack out

23:20

there and lays it down. He falls asleep, and

23:23

I look over. Here's Dirk still diligent over

23:25

there.

23:25

So yep, yep, I says,

23:28

I had the shotgun. Like I as much

23:30

as I want to crawl out in the sun and warm up, I was freezing

23:32

it out. There was cold wind, I was

23:34

not dressed right. I had my lightweight

23:37

warm weather turkey gear on and it

23:39

was it was frigid.

23:41

Yeah, and we, like I say, we called

23:43

for an hour and twenty minutes and I said,

23:45

you know, normally they if they're going to come in

23:47

or hear us, they'll be here by now. So yeah,

23:50

let's go. We'll go up another little draw and hit

23:53

hit another hollow that's sheltered

23:55

again. And what we

23:57

get down there and walking

24:00

along and turkles and

24:03

were looking. It was really hard to see they were betting.

24:05

All of a sudden, six of them stand up.

24:07

Holy smokes, only saw one of them. Yeah,

24:10

and they look at us and they

24:12

decided, okay, let's go up the hill, slow

24:14

feeding and they're all doing

24:17

their duty. After they stand up, and we'll start

24:19

walking off. And I says, well, Dirk, when

24:22

I find deer, I always find turkeys.

24:24

I said, Their turkeys and the deer like to hang out together

24:26

here. Okay, we

24:29

take about what five steps and Dirk goes turkeys

24:32

and they were right in front of us. They would come

24:34

into our calls.

24:35

Right behind the deer. They were walking. They walked like within

24:37

five yards.

24:38

Of the deer. Yeah, like they were just.

24:40

Hanging out like chumps. And what's funny is

24:42

like I was telling him about

24:44

hunting in Kansas around deer and turkeys,

24:46

a lot of white tails and a lot of turkeys, and

24:49

the turkeys will get over and get on the corner

24:51

or whatever. And the deer they don't

24:53

like it when the turkeys are there because I think they can

24:55

make a lot of the noise. And I don't know, maybe they maybe

24:58

the turkeys are mean to the deer. I don't know, but they it seemed

25:00

to like each other too much. Yeah,

25:04

and I kind of I'll make some noise and

25:06

make clear to my throat or make some noise or wave my

25:08

hand outside the blind or the tree and

25:10

try to get those turkeys to see me and like spook

25:13

off, so the deer will bill to come in, you

25:15

know, on with no reservations,

25:17

you know. And Ron was telling me, he's

25:19

like, oh, that's weird because my deer and turkeys they

25:21

love each other. I got pictures on my trail cams

25:23

with these deer and turkeys hanging out together all the time.

25:25

I'm like, well, that's weird. So

25:28

we see deer take five steps. Oh

25:30

well there's the turkeys. They're best friends. The turkey's

25:32

coming. And

25:36

Ron had just made some some yelps

25:38

with his with his box call,

25:41

and and these these jakes

25:43

were like on a bee line to us and

25:45

We're kind of standing right out in the middle of like

25:48

on the sunshine, like we're we're

25:50

frozen. We're not moving a bit, like we're

25:52

not moving a muscle, and these turkeys are like coming

25:55

right to us, got to like ten yards, and then they

25:58

didn't. They weren't paying attention that you could see, like

26:00

looking around.

26:00

Hey, where's that hen?

26:01

Where's that hen?

26:02

Out?

26:02

I heard?

26:03

And they're looking around and they're all

26:05

it's funny to watch jakes. They're all kind of grouped together

26:07

and kind of you call them like a gang of thugs

26:10

or a gang of teenagers, like you

26:12

know, you know, they kind of act kind

26:14

of geeky, you know, kind of nerdy, and and

26:16

pretty soon they don't see the hen. They go back

26:18

well, and then off in the distance about sixty

26:21

yards, there's

26:23

a couple of toms strutting, you know, they're

26:25

fanning around back there. I'm like, oh, yeah,

26:27

those things need to come. So the Jakes

26:30

kind of go back over there, and then they kind of run around.

26:32

Jakes will do this funny thing where they run around in circles.

26:34

If you haven't been around it too much, but if you have, you

26:36

know what I'm talking about. They run around circles chasing each other.

26:38

It's it's kind of funny. It's like animated, you know. They're

26:41

running around a circles, chasing each other into like a

26:43

in a six foot circle.

26:46

Then they stop them go the other way, and they stop.

26:47

The go the other way, and then pretty soon one of the

26:49

big toms had come over and chase them off, like, hey, get

26:52

out of here with your nonsense, you know, kind of like an adult wood

26:54

smack. The kids like, quit screwing around

26:57

here, and Ron

26:59

start squawking again with these with the box,

27:02

and here they come again. There they come right back over

27:04

to us that the Jakes and

27:07

the Toms keep on strutting. They're not really

27:09

making any ground.

27:10

I think they're just I think they're back there strutting

27:12

and staying okay, lady, here, I am.

27:13

See come to me.

27:15

They were probably spitting and drumming both

27:17

and we just couldn't hear it.

27:18

It was pretty windy, yeah, And

27:21

then I would yelp with my with my diaphragm,

27:24

and I think it was a little too low pitched or

27:27

something. I think when I heard

27:29

them yelping too, and it's more like a gobbler yelp,

27:31

and they would they would cut loose and gobble that.

27:33

The the jakes would gobble their heads

27:36

off every now and then when I

27:38

I'd yelp with my reed, my diaphragm, and

27:41

but they didn't. It didn't really make them come. But when you hit

27:43

that box that real high pitch, then

27:45

they're like, oh, we better go back over there and check

27:48

things out. And

27:50

then finally they kind of they come over, looked around

27:52

and see the hand went back, and then those toms

27:55

started like kind of pushing them off and then started

27:57

working their way to us a little bit. And

27:59

there was kind of a fall there and some brush

28:01

and stuff that we couldn't quite see

28:03

him or have a shot. And then finally the

28:06

one they the one tom got out

28:08

and there was a gap. I was thinking,

28:10

Man, if he puts his head in that that opening,

28:12

you know is a pretty good, you know, two or three foot opening,

28:15

and holds it still for a second, I might

28:17

just shoot him. And and he did. Okay, I put

28:19

my bead, I put a little high because I think I think that

28:21

thing's about I think he's about fifty yards

28:24

and I heard Ron say shoot

28:27

Bayam, I shoot him, and down he goes flop,

28:29

flop flop. Then what happened?

28:31

Oh yeah, So then Dirk runs

28:34

up there to get him, and I'm sitting there

28:36

just watching the whole scene unfold. The deer up

28:38

to my left and all these

28:40

jakes are standing there going what the heck is

28:42

going on? And the other big Tom was looking

28:44

back at his buddy, going what's happening here?

28:46

What are you doing down there? And

28:49

Dirk gets up there and his bird's flopping

28:51

it off on the hill. It starts flopping down the hill

28:53

and he steps on the wing to hold it still

28:56

pulls out half the wing feathers and it's

28:59

flopping on down on the hill, and find the sides.

29:01

Well, I guess he's not coming with us anymore

29:03

or less. Mosy up there.

29:06

Had I have my wits about me. What I should have done is

29:08

I should have just handed you the shotgun. But

29:10

the big bird, the big Tom, he wasn't really

29:13

exposed real good at that point. No, so

29:15

like we could have played out. But as I didn't know fifty

29:18

yards it's a poke, I was like, you know, did

29:20

I just stun him? I gotta get over there and get there,

29:22

get my my make sure he's just down.

29:25

Yeah, I gotta put my foot on his neck and make sure he's down,

29:27

because I don't want him to like get his wits about itim run

29:29

off and then lose the darn thing.

29:31

Shoot yeah, have him die somewhere you can't

29:33

find him.

29:34

Yeah, So then we giggle and

29:36

we have a good time and

29:38

and uh yeah, and those turkeys are

29:40

so pretty, like you know, at

29:42

face value, at a distance, you're like, oh, yeah, it's

29:44

a big black bird. But up close,

29:47

like the feathers fluoresce all these different

29:49

colors, hues of green and blues

29:51

and reds and.

29:52

Oranges and oranges, and yeah, they's beautiful.

29:54

They're so beautiful. So in the sun was out, so

29:56

we sat there admired these beautiful feathers for a

29:58

while and took pictures and did all that

30:00

and giggled a little bit and talked

30:02

about what happened, and and uh,

30:05

you know. Then then the hard pack came

30:07

out. We loaded all the you know, the big turkey.

30:10

Turkeys are heavy, not like an

30:12

elk. Though I'd rather pack a turkey out than definitely,

30:15

But anyway, we packed the turkey out and

30:17

then we had had a cold beer and some

30:19

some lunch, and and uh,

30:22

that was a that was a pretty good day.

30:26

And then the next day it's Ron's

30:28

turning. He's got a shotgun and

30:30

we go out and just like elk cutting,

30:33

you know, the day before we we had them gobbling,

30:35

Yeah, we had them bugling. The next day

30:38

we go up. We cannot buy a

30:40

gobble on the roost. We're there well before

30:42

light and we're check all the spots that Ron's

30:44

got this play style. Well, if they're here, if

30:47

they're not there, they're over here, if they're out there, over here,

30:49

and then all these different places have a lot of turkeys.

30:52

We checked all the spots. They would not gobble

30:54

on the roost. Just like elk

30:56

cutting. You have one fantastic

30:58

day. The next day it's like, what is going on? I

31:00

can't get a bold a bugle?

31:02

Yeah, went down and called across

31:04

the canon to see if those birds are gobbled at us

31:06

at least nothing. Yeah, nothing, And

31:09

we're going, what the Heck's okay, let's head up

31:11

further up the road and get

31:13

up there about a mile right

31:15

before we had stopped and called from in the morning,

31:18

what's that in the road, that's a turkey.

31:21

We get up there and it was like, I don't

31:23

even know five or six Hens and Jake at least

31:26

they went right back up where they were the

31:28

day before and would not talk

31:31

at all.

31:32

No gobbles. Yeah, yeah, there had to have been a

31:34

mature Tom and or so we saw

31:36

some I mean the day before. But still

31:38

even that Jake, you'd think he he'd you

31:40

know, bark a little bit, but he didn't say squat

31:43

say.

31:43

And that was before we before

31:45

they crossed the road, even they were still on our

31:48

side. And yeah, so

31:50

then what we go up the road another we go

31:52

check it out and see the man encounters are up there, going

31:55

up the road another couple of miles and head into

31:57

spot and driving down

31:59

the road, there's there. Says

32:01

oh, there's a hand and so we oh,

32:04

yeah, yeah, there should be a Tom around here somewhere.

32:06

So we get out and call

32:08

ho and he somewhere off

32:10

in the distance Tom gobbles. Okay, let's go. So

32:13

we down park in the bottom and get up on the

32:15

ridge top and head down the ridge. And that was the one

32:17

that we talked about earlier that I tried

32:19

sneaking in on. We wouldn't wouldn't leave.

32:22

And then after they

32:24

flew off there said, oh, I heard

32:26

one gobble across the next canyon, so

32:30

we decided to go there and check it out. And

32:33

we went down there when that thing was and by the

32:35

time we got up there, the wind was that

32:37

howl and bitter cold, and our

32:40

faces last night, like we were sunburned

32:42

from the wind. We were

32:44

both red faced, and our fingers were

32:46

frozen. And that was with the gloves on everything.

32:48

Yeah.

32:49

Yeah, so we said, okay, that's enough for today.

32:52

Yep. Yeah. It's funny.

32:55

The feelings at turkey hunting give you the

32:58

motions, right, So one day you

33:00

think I am the worst

33:02

turkey hunter in the world, like you like

33:05

turkeys will humble you. And I

33:07

know other people are like, oh, turkeys are so stupid. You can

33:09

shoot them so easy. And I've had days

33:11

like that too. You're like, turkeys are the I'm like the

33:13

best turkey hunter in the world. This is easy.

33:16

Like I don't know why this is not hard, Like

33:18

I could go out any day of the week and shoot a turkey, and

33:20

then the next day you go out and you can't, you

33:24

can't even come close to like I

33:26

don't think I'll ever shoot a turkey. You

33:28

get those same feelings you don't exist, yep,

33:31

and elk will do that to you too, Like you'll

33:33

be like, man, I am the master of the universe

33:36

and calling in elk and the next day it's

33:38

like, I must like the worst suckiest elk

33:40

hunter on planet Earth. I cannot I can't

33:43

get one to answer me. Yeah,

33:45

I'll hike around. I can't even jump one, you know, I can't

33:48

even find them, you know, But that's I

33:50

guess that's the that's why they call it hunting, you

33:52

know. It's yeah.

33:55

Yeah, So back

33:58

to we'll talk a little bit about elk cutting,

34:00

because I know people like I don't

34:02

know people like I'll hear about elk cutting, maybe

34:04

more than Turkey's maybe not. It depends on who

34:06

you are, where you live. People

34:09

in the Midwest and and in

34:11

the East, they really love turkey hanging, but they

34:13

probably really love elk cutting too. So I think we will

34:15

talk about some elk cutting too, about the good

34:18

old days, you know, the love of the

34:20

land that brought you and I together

34:23

and that part of the that

34:25

part of Idaho back in the day. If

34:27

you guys listen to an earlier podcast that I

34:30

did with George

34:33

beat Us, Yeah, I'm

34:37

sorry, I'm getting old. Sometimes I just go

34:39

blank on people's names. That's

34:41

it. Is

34:44

that a precursor for for dementia?

34:46

I don't know. I hope not, because sometimes

34:49

I'm just like, gee, was what's my own name?

34:51

But anyway, I'm sorry. So earlier

34:54

on an earlier podcast, UH talk

34:56

with George beat Us and he hunted the famed

34:59

Clearwater region, North Idaho back

35:01

in its heyday. You know, at that time in the

35:04

elk world, I don't have the largest

35:06

elk herd in the nation. Fast

35:09

forward forty years,

35:11

however long it has been. It's probably been forty

35:14

fifth well yeah, over forty almost fit fifty

35:16

years, and it's

35:19

probably one, arguably one of the worst places

35:21

to help hunt elk in the nation. And

35:24

you and I sit around and talk about the good old days

35:27

and the fun experiences we had in that

35:29

country and then what it

35:31

looks like now. But what

35:33

was it like back when you went up there, back

35:36

when you were a younger man, and the

35:39

hills weren't quite as big and steep.

35:42

That's for darms.

35:42

Sure, Why did the mountains grow taller as

35:45

we get older?

35:46

Erosion?

35:47

It's got to be erosion.

35:49

No, we started, we started hunting in nineteen

35:52

eighty nine, my good hunting

35:54

buddy and my brother and I and

35:56

it was like hunter to Oregon

35:58

a lot. I mean that's where I hunt. It only was Oregon,

36:01

Eastern Oregon. So I'm hunting a lodge poles

36:04

and the thickets over there, and there's

36:06

really no brush, not much brush anyway, and

36:09

we could call bulls in over there, but they

36:11

just there was enough. People kind

36:14

of put

36:16

me off. So I said, let's go try Idaho. So

36:18

I did some research and picked

36:20

this spot in Idaho, went there and

36:23

I circled spots on my maps. I had a topple

36:25

of maps in the day where I think, okay,

36:27

there might be elk here and here and here. So we

36:30

get there the first night, set up camp and head

36:32

down the road a couple of miles and just I

36:34

don't think it was one of the spots side the circle. Let's

36:37

squat here and look. So we just park head

36:39

out there, and we

36:42

probably made it a quarter to a half a

36:44

mile and said, this is ridiculous.

36:46

We're beating ourselves through brush the whole way.

36:49

Let's go back the road and go somewhere else. So

36:51

we did and went up on this other

36:54

point and before dark throughout

36:56

some beagles and got an answer, Oh,

36:58

okay, well come back here in the morning, and this is cool.

37:01

Went down there in the morning and you know, chased

37:03

him around to the vail and we

37:06

kind of to think for nine days and

37:09

we were in the elk every day, had a beegling every

37:11

day and got

37:13

some real good close encounters. And I

37:15

don't remember how far into it, probably about

37:18

day six

37:20

we caught up with some and I shot one and he

37:22

died right in a crik bottom. And

37:26

that was our first day in there ever, and okay,

37:28

let's took care

37:31

of him, packed some stuff out that time, and went

37:33

back down with three of us to pack him out. In

37:35

Oregon. In eastern Oregon,

37:38

the brush you know, the bottoms of the

37:40

creeks aren't brushy at all. So we

37:43

loaded him up and said, let's just head up a creek. You know, big

37:47

mistake. We're fighting through tag alder, We're

37:49

slipping on the rocks in the creek and it

37:52

was a mess. But we finally packed him

37:54

out and got

37:56

done with our hunt that year and came home and on

37:59

the way home said, ma'am, it

38:01

was fun, but we're never going to Idaho a gain. I

38:03

can't stand that brush, yeah, you know, and the

38:06

tag alder thickets. You know, you'd hear the bowl there

38:08

and you just go plowing right through the middle of it,

38:10

and or the I don't

38:12

remember what the other one is down in there, the vine

38:14

maples and stuff. And little

38:17

did you realize that we're trails through there, you

38:20

know, the Olkus trail. They just don't go plowing

38:22

through like we did. We're dumb boys.

38:24

Took us a while to learn. And so

38:26

we're set on our way home. Now, we're not going back

38:29

there. That was just too much work and too brushy,

38:31

you know, so forget it. Two

38:34

or three months later, well, what are we going to do next

38:36

year? Are we going to hunt? I said, you

38:38

know, we had a lot of bulls bugling in Idaho

38:40

and had a lot of clothes. Let's go back there.

38:43

So we went back for two weeks, and that

38:45

year we learned that there's trails that go through

38:48

all this brush, and we learned a

38:50

lot more area that year. And you

38:53

know, we hunted that from eighty nine

38:55

through two thousand and three and

38:59

just had a ball over there. He got

39:01

to know the area well, and we had multiple

39:04

balls in all the time and got

39:06

a lot of bulls taken home with us and it

39:09

was fun. It was just a blast. And during

39:11

some of those studies, I'm sure that

39:13

I'm on this hill side and you're on that hill

39:16

side, and I'm beagling to you, and you're beagling to me,

39:18

and we're going, there's hunters there, what the heck?

39:22

Guy over there?

39:23

Over there going, what the heck's that guy over there

39:25

for? Yeah?

39:26

Yeah, I think we probably crossed paths

39:28

in the mountains, but not close enough to know to

39:31

meet each other.

39:31

Right, And we'd go by where you were camped

39:34

and we oh, we'd wave with the camp on the way

39:36

by you.

39:38

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

39:40

Things things were different back then, Definitely

39:43

they were a lot more elk Ron

39:57

does it did a thing that's really cool.

39:59

It's not you. I mean, there's other people that do

40:01

it. And I know, as far

40:03

as regrets in my hunting life, I wish

40:06

I would have done this because I love interesting

40:09

data in facts. But Rawn

40:12

has kept a journal log of encounters

40:15

and call ins and how many elk

40:17

they heard seen moon

40:20

phases from nineteen

40:22

eighty nine till last.

40:24

Till last year. Last through this year. I just

40:26

don't have the last I don't

40:29

have the last five years on my data

40:31

sheet. You have an updated to data sheet right the

40:34

year or the total data sheet

40:36

you're printed up one. Yeah, but yeah,

40:39

So what kind of a trend have you seen from

40:42

nineteen eighty nine to modern

40:44

times? So from nineteen eighty

40:46

nine through nineteen ninety

40:48

four we were seeing

40:51

on the average of twenty bulls a year and

40:54

had twenty five close encounters

40:56

a year, And to me, a close encounter

40:58

is when the was within sixty

41:00

yards, I can see them and there's a good

41:03

shot possibility. So for

41:05

those, however, many years we had that kind

41:07

of stats, and then ninety

41:11

five it went down. In ninety six

41:14

we had the hard winters there in

41:16

ninety five ninety six, So yeah, in

41:19

ninety six and ninety seven

41:21

it dropped down to eight per year on

41:23

bulls seen and twelve p R on close encounters,

41:26

and then it started trending back up through

41:28

about two thousand and three, went

41:31

back up to fourteen bulls a year and

41:34

six encounters or fifteen encounters

41:36

a year, and then the wolves

41:38

showed up and they were they were starting

41:40

to get there. In two thousand and three even. Yeah,

41:43

and one night we're in bed sleep and you hear them

41:45

coming down the road howling, And you know, get

41:48

up the next day and there's all these huge wolf tracks

41:50

out in the road. Yeah, oh my gosh. Well

41:53

after that happened for the

41:56

next what do I have? Two thousand and three

41:58

was the last year we hunted that particular

42:00

area. We saw six bowls and had

42:03

six close encounters. Said,

42:05

okay, that's it, We're moving somewhere

42:07

else in the unit.

42:08

Yeah, you've moved from You've went from twenty to twenty five

42:10

a year down to six six.

42:11

Yeah, that's it's discouraging

42:14

when you stark difference. Yeah, and

42:16

the the vegetation

42:19

hadn't changed that much. The feed, you know, the habitat

42:21

hadn't changed. I mean it changed a

42:23

little bit, but not enough to do

42:26

that to the numbers. And yeah, the only common

42:28

no nominator was wolves.

42:29

Yeah, you know.

42:30

And so we moved over east further

42:33

in the unit. We were seeing fourteen

42:36

bowls a year and fifteen close encounters

42:38

for the next four years, and

42:40

then it went down to six bowls and six close

42:43

encounters again. We said, and there were wolf tracks

42:45

all over the roads and they're howling at night again.

42:47

Yeah, okay, you

42:50

know, let's get out of here. So we went to

42:52

another area and we were

42:54

seeing up there. You know, it was our first few

42:56

years up there. We were seeing nine bowls

42:58

a year, nine close and counters, and

43:04

so we said, okay, forget

43:06

that one, let's go somewhere else. And we

43:09

got another one that we were seeing ten

43:12

and eight a year close encounters.

43:14

Which the

43:17

difference there is that it was thicker.

43:19

It was actually thicker than where we had been hunting.

43:22

Yeah, and to see a ball and get a close

43:24

encounter was a lot harder. We've

43:26

got a lot of bugles going up there. We got a number

43:29

of bugles going up there.

43:30

We heard a lot of different bulls. But then the close

43:32

encounters and then visual eyes on bulls

43:35

went way down because it's just such thick.

43:36

It's only twenty yards, you know, we were shooting twenty

43:39

yards up there as all maximum. So yeah,

43:42

it definitely changed

43:44

well, And and we kind

43:47

of migrated down to this souther area and I ran into

43:49

somebody down there named Dirk.

43:50

Yeah, and yeah, it's funny

43:53

because I think the year that I seen you up

43:55

there in the woods. Finally we crossed paths. It

43:57

we'd been hunting some of the same areas for

43:59

the last thirty years and never run across

44:01

each other in the woods that we knew of. We we might

44:03

even passed each other by a way. We've

44:06

never talked, you know, but at

44:08

the Sportsman Shore in Portland and

44:10

what was it to uh, let's see twenty

44:13

eighteen.

44:13

Maybe probably something like that.

44:15

Then you introduced yourself. What

44:17

kind of talked about? We sit there and talk like school girls

44:19

and stuff, and we we knew

44:21

the places we used to hunt, but now

44:23

we kind of we didn't really talk a lot about where

44:26

we hunt currently, Like we

44:28

kind of left little tidbits like I kind

44:30

of hind around where you hunt. But we didn't really say names

44:32

or anything.

44:33

You don't never say names to somebody else, No, you

44:36

don't.

44:36

That's we laugh about. Hey,

44:38

Hey, you guys see anything hunting? No? No,

44:41

no, I haven't seen a thing. Okay, this man, I haven't heard

44:43

it out of course. You know. It's the elk hunters, you know, talking

44:45

to each one camp to another. You know, you never

44:48

share or divulge your information because

44:50

you know you don't want the other guys sneaking in there. On your

44:52

spot that they see your puck up and they're

44:54

going to be looking for a for a for

44:57

that bowl you've been bugling. So anyhow,

45:00

fast forward, So that was twenty eighteen, the

45:02

winter of twenty eighteen, we talked yeah, and then

45:05

and Mett finally face to face.

45:07

And then that fall

45:09

during mouth tab Madness that if

45:12

you guys haven't watched my YouTube channel, it's called The

45:14

Bugler and I do a series of videos called

45:16

mouth tab Madness. I'd injured my shoulder that

45:18

fall elk hunting, and I had

45:20

to relearn how to shoot a bow with

45:22

using a mouth tab. Had to bite on this

45:24

little the tab attached to the string with my

45:26

teeth and then push the bow forward

45:29

with my left arm, line up my

45:31

eyeball to my peep side, and then

45:33

shoot. And that's how I went hunting that fall.

45:36

The rest of that fall was with this mouth

45:38

tab bow. Anyway, we're

45:41

up there, Me and cameraman Dusty had just hiked

45:43

up, had a wet day

45:45

of bugle fest. We'd been chasing these

45:47

bugles around and we got just got back to

45:49

the pickup and I heard a vehicle coming. I'm like quick,

45:52

Dusty, hide because I don't

45:54

like talk to people in the woods. And I'm not trying to be disrespectful,

45:57

but I just I don't want to answer asking me questions.

46:00

I don't want to I don't want to have to lie to him.

46:02

They're like, oh, I haven't heard a thing, you know. I'd

46:04

just rather not talk to I don't want to pump

46:06

people from information, and I don't want them to

46:08

pump me for information. So I'm like, come here, Dsky,

46:10

hide behind the pickup. So we kind of hid behind the pickup and this

46:13

guy pulls up and I hear and he just stops. I'm

46:15

like, oh, dang it. And then

46:18

his I can hear his window go. He's

46:21

like, come on, come on out, guys. I see

46:23

you hiding back there. I hear this voice.

46:25

I'm like, oh, dang it, we're hit. We're had. And I

46:27

walk around and then to my dismay,

46:29

it's Ron and and he I could

46:32

see the same, the same surprise in his ice.

46:34

He's like, oh, Dirk, this is where you hunt,

46:39

Like dang it. So we had

46:41

a good, good, good visit there.

46:43

We probably talked way too long middle of the road there

46:45

and instead of going hunting, but it was good

46:47

to reconnect, and you told us where you were camped, and

46:49

we end up coming out to your camp later on. But

46:52

uh, anyhow that that

46:55

that's when we finally ran into each other

46:57

the woods in the woods and and I.

47:00

Well, we'd actually seen each other just a little bit

47:02

before that because we were

47:04

looking. We were road beagling one night and

47:08

we're standing beside the road beagling down This drawn

47:11

ron had nature calls, so he's standing there

47:13

and here comes a rig around the corner

47:15

a little and they're coming by and they're just

47:17

laughing. And I'm laughing because I know what

47:20

I'm doing. They're laughing because they know what

47:22

I'm doing. Well, we talked

47:24

to Dirk later and he said, yeah, I

47:26

was laughing because we were buggling to each other ago.

47:28

I was laughing for a different reason.

47:30

Dirk got

47:32

caught with your pants down. Yeah.

47:33

And then then when we ran into him,

47:36

if they were done hunting, we'd we'd

47:38

heard the bulls beagling up there that morning, but we

47:40

had in mind we wanted to go somewhere else in hunt,

47:42

so we did and the artist made

47:44

there was nothing there, So we said, let's go back and go

47:47

to that area where the bulls were this morning. So we went to the

47:49

backside of it and there's a rig park

47:51

there. It's like, oh my gosh, let's go to

47:53

the other side and climb the steep face. And that's

47:55

when we found Durkle there had been up there chasing

47:58

my bulls that morning.

48:02

Well that's awesome, and it's funny.

48:04

Like my experience is like I

48:07

wish I'd wrote them all down that way, I'd have that hard

48:09

data. I just have to go on memory. But

48:11

I remember, you know, the same kind of trends, you know,

48:13

you know, you would hear lots of bugles,

48:16

lots of every year, different bulls, and you'd have

48:18

you know, you would get eyes on bulls, and then

48:20

he can't close encounters and a

48:22

lot of people will throw around, oh yeah, I called in forty

48:25

seven bowls last year, but did

48:27

you really call in forty seven bulls. In my mind,

48:29

calling in a bull is having a bull either

48:32

come in to within archery range or

48:35

very close to it, so he's traveled a long ways

48:38

from where he was at originally and he came to your

48:40

calls and you almost get him.

48:43

Or let's say a bull comes from

48:45

half a mile away, and stands

48:47

on a hillside one hundred or two hundred yards away and looks

48:49

back and paces back and forth and bugles at you. But

48:51

then you don't. He don't come any further because he's like

48:54

he wants to see elk or he wants

48:56

you to make a move, but then he kind of goes back. That's

48:58

a call in too. But I

49:00

know people that will will hunt

49:02

some of the same areas I hunt, and they'll be like, oh, yeah,

49:05

we called in forty nine

49:07

bowls last year. I'm like, but did you. I

49:09

mean, I don't think you're counting. I don't think you're calling

49:11

counting call ins like me. I think

49:13

maybe maybe the amount

49:16

of bugles.

49:16

You heard they got forty.

49:19

Yeah, but you know what g is. I guess if

49:21

that's what makes you float your boat and keeps

49:23

you going going every day, I mean, you

49:25

know, bless your heart. I mean, I guess you can count

49:27

them however you want, right, yeah,

49:30

Well, same as turkeys, right, oh

49:32

he called in these, except

49:35

they when they got off the roost, they went the other way and

49:38

the half we're hs. But

49:41

that you know that we're where we met you,

49:44

We ran into you. If you if the

49:46

first year I hunted that spot there was in two thousand

49:48

and seven, and that year my buddy

49:50

Brent and I we'd heard thirty

49:53

five different bulls bugle in a week, and

49:55

I was like, wow, this is great because my old spot

49:57

I used to go had been really good. And then

50:00

on way downhill, just like what you said, you know, you

50:02

know, I think the last year I hunted there, I think

50:04

I had two close

50:07

encounters and I heard like three balls

50:09

the whole time. Yeah, and it just hurt

50:11

them and I got on on almost

50:14

all of them. I got on all of them, but you

50:16

know, I guess out of the three balls I got

50:18

on, two of them had close encounter. But anyhow,

50:21

fast forward, you know to two

50:23

thousand and seven, you know, thirty five balls we heard

50:25

in a week and had lots of close and client counters. I didn't

50:28

really count those if I'd have to kind of go back to the old

50:30

memory banks and write them down and kind

50:32

of figure it out, but lots of close encounters, very

50:34

you know, tension on the string drawn back a few times

50:36

and almost got them to when

50:39

we met you in twenty nineteen,

50:43

we had I don't know, we probably heard like maybe

50:46

ten bules that year and had three or

50:48

four close encounters in nineteen. In

50:50

twenty nineteen, Yeah, and

50:52

he's gonna he's gonna look at his bible. Here, his LK

50:55

Cunting Bible.

50:56

Twenty nineteen, we heard a total of thirty

50:58

three bules and saw five

51:00

bulls. Well, I have four clothes

51:02

encounters.

51:04

You, you Sandbagger. You

51:07

when I talked to you in the woods, you said, oh,

51:09

yeah, we've heard a couple of bulls here and there. But

51:12

well, you weren't being truthful.

51:15

Well you probably weren't either.

51:17

I was.

51:17

I wasn't at all. Yeah, you guys

51:19

said, oh, did you get into them up there? I'm like, oh,

51:22

we heard a couple of bugles up there out

51:24

of the brush, and we weren't

51:27

real truthful either.

51:28

Yeah, a little geno. I sit down there and listen

51:30

to them all morning before we left. Yeah.

51:33

Yeah, but.

51:36

It was a good year.

51:37

But but just the start contrast,

51:39

you know. And then fast forward to

51:41

like twenty twenty two, that that

51:44

was the last time I hunted up in that country. That

51:46

was the ghost Bul video

51:48

you guys watched if you haven't watched it on YouTube,

51:51

the ghost Bul.

51:52

Yeah, that was Nor was

51:55

a good one.

51:55

Ghost Bowls of the North or something like that.

51:57

Yeah, Ghost Bulls of the North.

51:58

That was the video on YouTube, the Phelips Game Calls

52:01

YouTube channel. And I

52:03

think I heard five bulls

52:06

that year and had

52:08

three close encounters as

52:11

in I was, you know, I was

52:13

in within shooting range of bulls. So

52:18

even it had even gone downhill from twenty nineteen

52:21

to twenty twenty two, in my mind, a

52:23

lot less sign and you know a lot of hunter

52:25

activity, but you know, I'm kind of going to some places you don't

52:27

see a lot of people. But still it's

52:30

just it's just that the elk numbers

52:32

are not there right there used to be a

52:34

lot more than there. And in

52:37

my mind just from I

52:40

feel like, I feel like I'm about as educated

52:42

as any biologist, probably more so than any biologists

52:44

are out there and now there. Most biologists

52:47

they read things, they look

52:49

at spreadsheets, they look at that kind of data. Ron

52:53

and I are out there surveying

52:55

the landscape, the countryside, firsthand

52:58

experience covering the

53:00

country. We're digging in, I

53:02

would dare say way more than anybody

53:05

that's like doing any kind of biology assessment

53:08

of an area. You know, we're boots on the ground.

53:10

We're walking in places people don't normally walk unless

53:12

you have like an elk calling

53:14

to you. Like, you're not going to walk down to these

53:17

crap holes if there's not a bull

53:19

bugle and like they're just you're not gonna

53:21

walk down there to to write something on a sheet of paper

53:24

just to see what's down there. You're just not going to do it. So

53:26

anyway, I feel like we have a pretty good gauge

53:28

on what has happened to Idaho's

53:30

elk nor North idahos elk. Certain

53:33

parts of Idaho elk are flourishing.

53:37

Other parts of Idaho they're diminishing.

53:40

But where they're flourishing, do they have many wolves?

53:42

Not as many, no, or any,

53:45

you know, not as many or any, but

53:47

wolves are starting to find some of those places. Now.

53:50

I have friends and you know, in this southern

53:52

part of the state. You know, if you cut the skinny part of Idaho

53:55

off and make a box out of the southern

53:57

part of the state, you know, make a rectangular

53:59

box the areas

54:02

in that those places, you know, I feel like they have

54:04

better elk herds. I probably shouldn't say that, but

54:07

I know on the fringes of

54:09

the northern part of the Box. I

54:12

know people are starting to say, you know, man,

54:14

we're starting to see more wolves and starting to see

54:16

more wolves. And they'd seen wolves

54:18

before and they kind of came and went, But

54:20

now they're back and they they're they're finding

54:22

dead heads, lots of deadhead elk. They're

54:25

starting to make an impact in a lot of areas,

54:27

especially with the kind of winters we've been having. Last

54:30

year, this winter wasn't

54:32

too bad, but the winter of twenty twenty two

54:34

twenty twenty three was devastating

54:37

to South Idaho. And I

54:39

don't know if that's you know, what got those wolves.

54:41

You know, they just followed the herds down

54:44

into the lower country as the time went by. But anyhow,

54:49

some might say, like if we go back to northern

54:52

Idaho, some will say, you know,

54:54

it's all about habitat, you know, the habitat loss,

54:57

because in too in nineteen

54:59

ten, there was a giant wildfire that

55:02

went from north central Idaho

55:04

clear way up into the Panhandle and

55:06

burned millions of acres of the national forest,

55:09

which after thirty years

55:12

forty years, when it grew

55:14

back, it was amazing. Elk cabitat you

55:16

know, the burnt had opened up

55:19

the canopy, you know, grasses and

55:21

small shrubs growing everywhere, and it

55:24

was a perfect storm because you know, back in them days,

55:28

not a lot of people in Idaho. And then around

55:30

World War two, they'd

55:32

even pre World War two, they'd even shut down

55:34

hunting seasons in a lot of those units because

55:37

they'd had some bad winners and they wanted the elk

55:39

to come back and flourish, and they did, and they opened up seasons

55:41

again. Anyhow,

55:44

the elk hunting was fantastic, and George

55:46

beat Us got to hunt onto

55:49

the tail end of some of that there in the seventies

55:52

and early eighties of that fantastic

55:54

yel hunting and if

55:56

you listen to that podcast, his stories were incredible.

55:59

But to understand and in the forties

56:01

and fifties it was twice as good

56:04

it was, if you can even

56:06

wrap your head around how good that was, it was twice

56:08

as good. It had the nation's best elk elk

56:11

heard in this relatively

56:13

small area compared to like the whole

56:15

state of Colorado now that has the largest

56:17

delkurd in America. So but

56:20

anyway, now

56:22

you know, now we're in twenty

56:25

twenty four. Those forests

56:27

have grown up, they've aged, they've

56:30

matured, they've choked

56:32

out, you know, grasses they've choked

56:34

out. You know, the underbrush has matured and

56:36

gotten really tall, so you don't have all the

56:39

tender things to eat at more of a more

56:41

just little above ground level. So

56:44

the feet has changed. So people

56:46

will say the experts will say,

56:49

well, it's more of a habitat issue

56:52

than a wolf issue, and

56:54

I think both sides are

56:57

right to a certain degree. So,

57:00

well, if you have elk

57:03

that should have really great feed, If they have

57:05

really great feed everywhere and they're pressured

57:07

by wolves, they just keep moving until

57:09

you know, okay, it's okay, we'll just go live

57:11

over here. There's good food here. And they just keep following

57:13

the food and the wolves follow them. They're probably gonna

57:16

stay more nourished and

57:18

probably have less mortality.

57:21

But as it is now, you know, we have a lot

57:23

of mature forests and stuff. There's

57:25

less quality habitat. The wolves pursue,

57:27

they distress elk. They're not as

57:30

in good as shape because they don't have a good as feed,

57:32

and then they're easy. They're easier prey because there

57:34

may be find some good food, if a good food source,

57:36

and don't want to leave it, and then the wolves go in and

57:38

wipe them out. And this is all just my theory.

57:42

What do you think? Yeah, I mean I agree

57:44

with someone that that has grown up into old forest,

57:47

old growth. But then you start

57:49

out where you go back to where you and

57:51

I first turn it over there, Yeah, and

57:53

that is all burnt, that's all. There's been

57:55

fires go through all that country, and so it's

57:59

reforesting. It's got the open grasses,

58:01

it's got the habitat for them. And

58:03

you were back there last year rifle

58:05

hunting and you found zero in there. Yeah,

58:08

so you know, there used to be tons

58:11

of elk in there, and now there is

58:13

good food. If it was habitat, there's great

58:15

food for him in there. But they're still in the elk.

58:18

Right, Yeah, for the about

58:20

a decade ago that country started burning again.

58:22

Between burning and then there's a lot of beetlekill

58:24

timber that's falling, you know, and opening

58:27

up the canopy as well, but you're

58:29

still not seeing elk. And then you know what

58:31

George talked about. You know, a

58:34

good friend of his who was a biologist for the

58:36

fishing the forest service in that area. A

58:39

forestry guy. He said,

58:42

you know, they need to prescribe burns in the winter

58:44

habitat, you know, to get those you

58:46

know, you know, those those burns we're

58:48

talking about, a lot of them are up on top top. They're

58:50

not in the they're not in the winter range. But

58:54

conversely, you know, at the time, I

58:57

wanted to hear George's opinion, and I didn't want

58:59

to, you know, take counterpoint on it. But I

59:01

got to thinking and thinking about, like, well, okay,

59:03

that that does make sense. That's a fair, fair

59:06

assumption. But then I look at the frank Church

59:08

Wilderness. All

59:11

all you got to do is go to Google Earth and look

59:13

at the frank Church Wilderness. It's all

59:15

burnt from the river to the

59:17

highest peaks, most of it.

59:19

It's it's a huge vast

59:23

wasteland of burn, wasteland

59:26

as far as like timber. But now there's

59:28

grasses, small trees, you

59:30

know, like jackfurs and brush,

59:33

lush brush growing. Where

59:36

are the elk? They haven't made a return

59:38

there. There's nobody's saying good lord.

59:40

You know, the outfitters aren't getting rich

59:43

in the frank Church Wilderness because there's

59:45

so many elk, and they have so many clients coming in. There's

59:47

a lot of outfitters that have gone out of business.

59:49

Yeah, and.

59:51

I haven't talked to too many people lately that said,

59:54

oh, the Frank Church is on fire with elk right now.

59:56

He actually asks people and they're like, yeah, there's

59:58

elk, but a few between.

1:00:00

They kind of tell the same kind of stories we tell

1:00:02

about the places we've been hunting. You

1:00:04

know, if you know the pockets where they live, you'll

1:00:06

get into them. But if you don't, you're gonna you could

1:00:09

spend a whole week there or a ten day hunt

1:00:11

and not see a dang elk or here.

1:00:12

I know, if if you walk forever through the brush piles

1:00:14

and just beat yourself togeath.

1:00:18

But anyway, yeah, I I don't

1:00:22

know what the easy answer is because they have, you

1:00:25

know, with trapping and stuff, and then I

1:00:27

know the idole fishing game of flown

1:00:29

missions with their their helicopters, and you

1:00:31

know, to reduce numbers of wolves,

1:00:33

you know, they shoot a bunch and to help

1:00:35

certain areas where the elk are suffering

1:00:38

or maybe cattle, and then

1:00:40

the trappers are getting a fair share of

1:00:42

them. And I think I think they're just kind of keeping

1:00:44

them at bay. They've reduced some of the numbers, but

1:00:46

they've kind of keep them at bay. And I

1:00:50

don't know. Something has to happen drastically

1:00:52

to get those elk to come back in those places.

1:00:55

So that takes you to the next thing is

1:00:57

where the elk drop their cows. Yes,

1:01:00

guess what's down there? Bears bears.

1:01:03

So has the bear population increased

1:01:05

enough to where they're hurting the herds

1:01:07

by killing enough cows? I don't know.

1:01:10

I think they put it in on them, definitely. I

1:01:12

think there's a lot of bears. I don't think it's like

1:01:14

the bound bears we had in the eighties. But we don't

1:01:16

have the amount of elk because we had in the eighties.

1:01:18

But there's more cougars now too than there

1:01:20

were ye So you know, everything's

1:01:23

trying to like a turkey. We were talking,

1:01:25

Yeah, a turkey doesn't have a friend one in

1:01:27

the woods except for a deer. Everything

1:01:29

else wants to eat it.

1:01:31

It's on everyone's menu, I

1:01:33

mean.

1:01:34

Says oh young bobcat, Oh yeah, cougar,

1:01:37

yeah, but an

1:01:40

elk because you know, there's a lot of things

1:01:42

trying to eat the elk too. Between the bear,

1:01:44

the cougar and the wolves, you

1:01:46

know, they're yeah, now,

1:01:49

prime fair.

1:01:50

Now. Am I calling for the eradication of wolves

1:01:53

or bears or cougars. No, no, But it

1:01:55

has to be a good balance, right, It's

1:01:58

got to be a balance. And and being

1:02:01

I'm an animal lover, I love all

1:02:03

animals and I want to see them all do

1:02:05

well, but not at the expense of the other

1:02:08

one. You know, I don't want all the elk to be gone, and

1:02:10

I don't want all the wolves to be gone, and all the cougars

1:02:13

in the mountain lions are the bears, and I

1:02:15

don't want to see something disappear completely

1:02:18

off the landscape at all, but we have to manage

1:02:20

them.

1:02:20

It is cool to hear a wolf howl. That is just

1:02:23

a neat. I mean, it's an air you sound, but it's

1:02:25

cool to hear.

1:02:26

And I love dogs. I am. People

1:02:28

may not know this about me, but I love dogs.

1:02:31

I have a black Lab, I've had black

1:02:33

labs. I've had dogs my whole entire adult

1:02:35

life. And I love dogs. And I

1:02:37

feel like wolves are interesting.

1:02:39

Dogs are intelligent, Dogs are way smarter than

1:02:42

people will usually give them

1:02:45

credit for. And especially they're very in

1:02:47

touch with their emotions. I think dogs are

1:02:49

more self aware than a

1:02:52

lot of people will acknowledge

1:02:55

or understand. So you think

1:02:57

wolves are very self aware, very

1:03:00

intelligent. They've they've they learned very

1:03:02

quickly about danger, about

1:03:05

food, they learn very quickly about everything.

1:03:07

And so I can

1:03:09

appreciate that. That's an inter it's very They're

1:03:12

an interesting animal. They have an interesting

1:03:14

family dynamic. They have just

1:03:16

a different kind of way of life,

1:03:18

you know, which is interesting, which

1:03:20

should should be appreciated. But also

1:03:23

I can appreciate when they're overpopulated,

1:03:26

then other animal species

1:03:28

suffer, and I don't appreciate

1:03:30

that, right. I don't want

1:03:33

that to happen.

1:03:33

I want there to be a balance, to go from fifteen

1:03:35

thousand elk curd down to fifteen hundred

1:03:38

elk curd.

1:03:39

Something's wrong, something's wrong, and it hoped

1:03:41

it happened within a two three year period.

1:03:43

Is this boom?

1:03:45

Is what happened? And the

1:03:47

habitat didn't just fail

1:03:50

as there's less elk on the landscape.

1:03:52

Think of this, you know, you say a habitat as

1:03:54

there's less elk on the landscape, there's

1:03:56

more food on the landscape because there's it's

1:03:59

not like all the the grass and brush died

1:04:01

in North Ido. If anything, there's it's

1:04:03

brushier than it's ever been everywhere he looks.

1:04:06

Food, Yeah,

1:04:08

it is. It's it's a it's a jungle.

1:04:10

That's the best way to describe it.

1:04:12

Like an elk doesn't have to walk far for food,

1:04:14

Like they can like walk three feet. Oh there's something else

1:04:16

to eat. Yeah, theysh

1:04:19

they walk fifty yards. Oh there's water. They

1:04:22

have, they have, they have everything they need except

1:04:24

I think they the the wolves have done quite

1:04:27

a number on them, and I think they do

1:04:29

definitely need to restore a lot of the the

1:04:32

winter habitat by doing prescribed

1:04:34

burns. But as my friend George

1:04:36

said, you know, there's that's a politically

1:04:39

charged thing. You know, we start

1:04:41

burning, you know, there's a lot of folks who suffer from asthma

1:04:43

and stuff, and it makes it hard for them to

1:04:45

breathe. Well, they get they get pushed back,

1:04:47

the four Service gets pushed back on on air

1:04:50

quality. Yeah, and you

1:04:52

know it's hard to make everyone happy,

1:04:55

you know, unfortunately.

1:04:58

Yeah, But but you have to look at

1:05:00

the money that hunters put

1:05:02

into the economy. Yep, And I

1:05:05

think as hunters, you know, buying license

1:05:07

and tags and all this stuff. You've promoted

1:05:09

the game and built up the

1:05:12

herds to where they were, you know, so

1:05:14

that was and then to be managed

1:05:16

responsibly at that level, you

1:05:19

know, keep the herds up. And

1:05:21

then something else comes into the equation, doesn't

1:05:23

that wasn't there before and changes all everything.

1:05:25

So you have to stop and re examine how you're

1:05:28

doing things. And I don't

1:05:30

know, I I don't

1:05:33

have the answers. I wish it did.

1:05:34

Well, here's I mean, here's a here's a here's

1:05:38

a topic. We could spin off of this and go down another

1:05:40

rabbit hole. Logging. You

1:05:42

know, they've they've ceased logging for

1:05:45

the most part. On buying large

1:05:47

on national forest. Yes, okay,

1:05:50

we can't burn that. We can't burn these these

1:05:52

winter grounds. Can we log them?

1:05:54

No?

1:05:55

And I'm not saying put in new

1:05:57

roads into these places, but people

1:05:59

can help licopter log right, That's that's

1:06:01

a very effective tool. You're not you're not you're

1:06:03

not scarring the landscape with roads. You

1:06:07

you make the roads that are existing

1:06:09

roads. Better cut the timber,

1:06:12

fly it to the fly it to the nearest

1:06:15

road. Landing and truck it out. You

1:06:17

know that now now again, we're stimulating

1:06:20

the economy, We're creating dollars, we're getting

1:06:22

people putting back to where work. We're getting tax money

1:06:25

that will help maintain the forest.

1:06:28

Yet the same people who

1:06:30

don't want you to log, they don't want you to burn, well,

1:06:33

some of them, but it seems like,

1:06:35

you know, we don't want you to to log

1:06:37

the forest. But and but

1:06:40

what happens in the end is well, wildfire

1:06:42

and it isn't burning anyway.

1:06:44

Yeah, and it's worse because nothing is restored

1:06:47

yet. Yeah.

1:06:47

And it's the middle of summer, it's July and August,

1:06:49

and now air quality all over the northern

1:06:52

northwestern part of the United States, the

1:06:54

sky's are brown for the whole month of August.

1:06:57

You're spending money to fight the fighters instead of

1:06:59

making money by log in it, Yes, which

1:07:01

just doesn't compute for me. Yeah.

1:07:04

In areas where there's

1:07:07

a lot of different ownerships of land, you know, you have

1:07:09

state, you have private timber companies, you have

1:07:12

National forest in those areas, you

1:07:14

definitely see a difference in ELK numbers just

1:07:16

because they've opened up the forest in those places.

1:07:19

So I do believe habitat

1:07:21

does have something to do with it, Yes, because

1:07:23

even with the presence of predators, the

1:07:26

elk do better.

1:07:27

And the fires don't do as well because they hit

1:07:29

these blocks that have been logged and they can distinguish

1:07:32

them, you.

1:07:32

Know, extinguish. We don't have those

1:07:35

multimillion acre burns

1:07:37

like we had in nineteen ten.

1:07:41

So anyway, I

1:07:43

wish we could just you know, I think we've just solved the

1:07:45

world's problems here, Ron.

1:07:48

I'm too old for that.

1:07:51

Man. It's been really fun. As always,

1:07:53

I appreciate you hosting me and bringing me over here. I

1:07:56

cherish the time we get to spend together and

1:07:58

go over and it's fun. We talk about life

1:08:01

and giggle

1:08:03

and laugh and and you cook good food

1:08:05

for me. You love to cook and I love

1:08:08

to eat. I mean, anybody that's seen you know that's

1:08:11

a great that's a great duo.

1:08:13

We gave first razor clams the other

1:08:15

night, the.

1:08:16

First razor clams. I've never had those before.

1:08:18

Jason Phelps thanks a lot for no invite.

1:08:21

He lives very close to the coast. And yeah I did,

1:08:25

Yeah, yeah, I had to had to come to my

1:08:27

good friend Ron's house to get razor clams. I

1:08:29

hope you're listening, Jason. You

1:08:32

know, if if you guys have questions

1:08:34

or comments, you can always email them into CETD

1:08:37

at Phelps Game Calls dot com.

1:08:41

Yeah in the distance, Yeah CTD

1:08:43

at Phelps Game Calls. Got to com and send send

1:08:46

an email to Jason Phelips and say, hey, why didn't

1:08:48

you have Dirk over for razor clams? I thought

1:08:50

you guys were friends. I'm starting to

1:08:52

question our friendship.

1:08:55

Make sure you use clams and not mud

1:08:57

clams.

1:08:58

Yeah yeah, well yeah, he'll probably eat the ray the clams

1:09:00

and I'm not there. He's like, oh, we got to some of these others. We

1:09:03

call them m clams for mud. But

1:09:06

anyway, anything to wrap this up,

1:09:08

any last thoughts. Do you have any regrets or looking

1:09:10

back at your your long hunting life,

1:09:13

Like, man, I wish I'd done something

1:09:15

that you just didn't do, and looking

1:09:17

back, you wish you could have done something different.

1:09:20

So, so when I was learning the

1:09:22

hunting starting out in Oregon and I

1:09:24

got I don't even know where, I heard about

1:09:26

bugling. I was excited. I thought I

1:09:28

want to call it. I want to hear bugle. So

1:09:31

I don't even know, I don't

1:09:33

know if it was herders or what. Back in the day, I heard

1:09:35

some turkey diaphragm calls you can make

1:09:37

yourself, and I made my own diaphragms

1:09:40

and I used them for bugling. Or I

1:09:43

was younger and my voice worked better

1:09:45

and I could do a throat bugle with

1:09:47

my own voice.

1:09:48

Did you suck in? Or did you scream?

1:09:51

So?

1:09:51

Can I try to do that? I sell like a credit

1:09:54

might sell like a stuck pig or something. It's so terrible.

1:09:57

Yeah. I called nice point in one

1:09:59

day and here came a hunter down up

1:10:01

win from him, and gone.

1:10:03

Got them both. He's got you fool them both.

1:10:05

Oh yeah. It was like, oh my gosh, you

1:10:07

must have been pretty good. But I made

1:10:09

my own diaphrams and tried those, and then they

1:10:12

had, you know, so I don't remember what called. Larry Jones

1:10:14

came out with them. I got the squealer thing and got

1:10:17

my first bull to really answer and come in

1:10:20

later on, and he was ripping up a tree and I

1:10:22

thought, I'm sitting here waiting for him

1:10:24

to come walking out in front of me, and he left, you

1:10:26

know, so it's like, oh, well, that's not how it goes.

1:10:29

And then I taught myself. I

1:10:31

had to. I learned it myself just by doing

1:10:33

it. And like we were talking back in the day, there

1:10:35

were enough elk and Idaho, if we blew

1:10:38

this one, let's go to the next one mile away.

1:10:40

Yeah, you don't do it again. And that was

1:10:42

how we learned. It was just trial and error. And

1:10:45

it ends up that you and I pop

1:10:47

a lot alike.

1:10:48

Now.

1:10:48

Yeah, I mean it's like we're sitting here talking

1:10:51

like yeah, yeah, yeah. Aggressive aggressive aggressive

1:10:53

means this, not this. And if

1:10:56

the bull gets aggressive sounding, we get aggressive

1:10:59

sounding. But if he's not, we're aggressive

1:11:01

pushing them, getting closer and making

1:11:04

them mad. So yeah, yeah, I

1:11:06

mean I the

1:11:08

only regrets I have yeah, okay,

1:11:14

not a whole lot, just a few.

1:11:17

You know.

1:11:17

I wish I had more patience at

1:11:19

times. That is one

1:11:21

of the key things for somebody learning patients.

1:11:24

Just because he hasn't showed up

1:11:27

within two minutes doesn't mean he's

1:11:29

not gonna be within ten minutes. Just like turkey hunting,

1:11:31

Yep, if a turkey doesn't show

1:11:33

up and he's quiet, he might be coming in quiet.

1:11:35

It's the same thing with an elk.

1:11:37

Ye.

1:11:37

So I've learned a lot

1:11:40

of patience. Especially now that I'm older, I

1:11:42

don't like to move as much and it

1:11:44

hurts to go, and so I learned to stop a

1:11:46

lot. Yeah.

1:11:47

Well, I think Kenny Rogers said it best. You

1:11:50

got to know when to hold him and know when to fold them exactly.

1:11:55

Oh yeah, no, that's about it. I

1:11:58

just thoroughly enjoyed my time in the woods

1:12:01

and learning about like you know, I was telling

1:12:03

you stories the other day what I've seen with hell kin

1:12:05

of the cow falling in the bog ahead over

1:12:07

heels, Yeah, calf getting beat

1:12:09

on by a cow, and you know, it's just

1:12:12

there's so many things just see watching

1:12:14

nelk get spooked, you know, spike grouse

1:12:17

flop at its feet and the spike just did some results

1:12:19

trying to get out of there. So you

1:12:22

see so many cool things when you were

1:12:24

out in the woods getting to watch that stuff, and that's

1:12:26

what I enjoy.

1:12:27

Yeah, yeah, it's so Yeah.

1:12:30

All the times I've been by myself hunting

1:12:32

and I didn't have anybody with me, and I've seen some amazing

1:12:35

things, like nobody's gonna ever believe

1:12:37

this story, and it's long before you videotaped

1:12:40

anything, and it's by myself and it's

1:12:42

like, man, that was so cool. And it's

1:12:44

one regret. I've hunted it by myself a lot

1:12:46

in my life and I enjoy it, I

1:12:49

love it, I prefer it, but

1:12:51

when something remarkable

1:12:54

happens, I regret that I didn't have someone

1:12:56

there with me to share that moment with, Like.

1:12:58

Can you believe that just happened?

1:13:00

Yeah, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen.

1:13:02

No, so my Yeah. Another regret

1:13:04

is that we didn't run into each other

1:13:06

back in the nineteen nineties and then

1:13:09

start hunting together with our

1:13:11

group. You know, it would have been it would have been.

1:13:14

I would have seen your license plate thought I'd been like them

1:13:17

damn or Guardian hunters. But out of standers

1:13:19

get out of it.

1:13:19

I know.

1:13:20

No, I'm just kidding, but I

1:13:23

wish we'd have found each other back then

1:13:25

and could have chased them same the same

1:13:27

mountains that we love so much together. It would

1:13:29

have been such so much fun.

1:13:31

Would have been. And now you're not hunting

1:13:33

where I'm hunting anymore.

1:13:34

Yeap.

1:13:35

So we'll have to give you a report

1:13:37

card this year.

1:13:37

Wrappers over, yeah, yeap, And we'll

1:13:40

just have to you know, we have turkey hunting

1:13:42

Ron, that's right, We'll always have turkey.

1:13:45

Yep, that's for Darner.

1:13:47

Sure, well,

1:13:49

thanks again. How can people find you?

1:13:51

You wanted to have let people know where they can find you on

1:13:53

social if they want to follow you.

1:13:55

I don't have any idea, Okay you do,

1:13:57

I don't, Yeah, I don't. I

1:14:00

don't know. If it's just Ron Hewett on Facebook

1:14:03

and something wrong hew it on

1:14:05

Instagram, I don't know. I don't post much on their

1:14:07

normally his family stuff, family stuff. And I

1:14:10

probably posted a picture of you the other day

1:14:12

because I had eleven year

1:14:14

memory or something on April fifteenth with

1:14:17

me with a bird and it said ad So I put

1:14:19

your picture on there, it shows up. I don't.

1:14:21

I don't even know how to find.

1:14:22

That, so right

1:14:24

on, Well again, I thank you for having

1:14:26

me over, Thanks for thanks for getting on the podcast.

1:14:29

You know, I know that was the first I said

1:14:31

I was never going.

1:14:32

To do this. I know you told me I'll

1:14:34

never get on a podcast, and I'm like, Ron,

1:14:36

you gotta do it.

1:14:37

Like I'm sweating and trembling and

1:14:39

shaking.

1:14:40

Yeah, that's you know. One of

1:14:42

my regret life regrets is not no

1:14:45

knowing or my before when my dad

1:14:47

passed away. Before he passed in two thousand

1:14:49

and nine, and back then, I hadn't even heard of a podcast.

1:14:51

I don't even know what a podcast was, and there

1:14:55

was, it wasn't mainstream media by no means,

1:14:57

and I regret that I

1:15:00

hadn't recorded. My mom always wanted my dad

1:15:03

because my dad, Yeah, he's a very colorful

1:15:05

person, crazy stories

1:15:07

like he lived a hell of a life from you

1:15:09

know, storm on the beaches of Ewajima to living

1:15:12

and working in Liberia,

1:15:14

Africa back in the sixties, and you

1:15:17

know, all the hunted the Idaho's backcountry

1:15:19

when it was the very best right out of World War Two

1:15:21

in the forties and fifties, and and

1:15:24

just he'd experienced such

1:15:26

a wide range of experiences

1:15:28

in life. My mom always

1:15:31

tried to get him to like record something like a little tape

1:15:33

recorder, and he I think he kin'd felt worried

1:15:35

about it, and he's likesh, I'm not doing that, you know.

1:15:37

But if we'd have been able to sneak or or

1:15:39

something or sit down, and I

1:15:42

wish I could have had an opportunity to podcast

1:15:44

and record all these wild stories

1:15:46

he had and life experiences.

1:15:48

I do regret that.

1:15:50

Yeah, it was, it was awesome. And but

1:15:52

and that's why I really wanted you to get on

1:15:54

here, because I wanted to I want to pick

1:15:56

your brain and record you and here and

1:15:59

hear your your You're spent on life

1:16:01

and and and elk cunning.

1:16:03

So I appreciate life is enjoy

1:16:05

all it's here. We never know about tomorrow. It's all

1:16:07

in God's hands. So absolutely,

1:16:10

that's that's the Just enjoy every day,

1:16:13

make the most of it, make make

1:16:15

the friends and enjoy your friendships.

1:16:18

So I love that. Yeah, all

1:16:20

right. And family, family and family.

1:16:22

Yeah, absolutely definitely family, family first.

1:16:24

Yeah, well, thanks Ron, and we'll

1:16:27

catch everybody on the next one.

1:16:32

H h

1:16:41

h h

1:16:45

h m

1:16:50

hmmm