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all states and situations. This

1:18

episode contains language that might not be

1:21

suitable for everyone, as

1:23

well as descriptions of violence and sexual

1:25

assault. Please use discretion.

1:29

When we started, I kind of

1:32

thought they must have been involved.

1:34

They must have been involved. Why

1:36

else would they confess? Who's

1:39

gonna say, yes, I killed this woman, or yes,

1:41

I was there, if they weren't there?

1:44

Catherine Huddle worked as an editor and

1:46

reporter in Nebraska for almost 40 years.

1:50

She spent some time working for a small local paper

1:53

in a town called Beatrice. While

1:55

she was there, she edited stories about

1:58

things like local government and the county.

2:00

there. But. Then news

2:02

broke about a murder that had

2:04

happened in towns more than two

2:06

decades earlier. Catherine

2:08

Haven't heard much about it before. Somehow

2:11

it just was not really on.

2:13

My radar. A

2:15

sixty year old woman named Ellen Wilson had

2:18

been found dead in her apartment. And.

2:20

I you prefer he casually so all just

2:22

swing by the courthouse and in a look

2:24

at some records or. And

2:26

it realize there was literally

2:28

a room full. Of boxes full

2:30

of records, five thousand pages of documents,

2:35

The. Documents dated back to February

2:37

Six: Nineteen Eighty Five. On

2:40

Feb sifts Alan Wilson had.

2:42

Just returned home to be addresses

2:45

after visiting family across the state.

2:47

And she was ill. She had

2:49

pneumonia. Lawyer. Jeffrey

2:52

Patterson. Elements.

2:54

And Sendero came over to visit

2:56

her his wife Katie without bowling.

2:59

And after Katie finish Bowie married

3:01

when she came over to Helens

3:04

apartment been made chatted for a

3:06

bit. More. Processing

3:08

A pharmacist. Dropped awesome prescription

3:10

cough syrup for Helen. She took

3:12

a Ddos at seven forty five

3:14

pm. To supposed to

3:17

take her next dose at midnight. And

3:19

so Katie said she was gonna call the

3:21

mixer. Mother in law was awake, took her

3:23

medicine at the appropriate time. So

3:26

just before twelve came around, Katie

3:28

made a call and nobody answered

3:30

in. and Katie waited about ten

3:33

minutes and called at midnight and

3:35

again nobody answered and as you

3:37

called again about ten minutes later,

3:39

no one answered in than just

3:42

apparently disfigured it telling didn't hear

3:44

phone. The next

3:46

morning Helen Wilson sister went. To

3:48

her apartment to bring your breakfast. She

3:50

left in the apartment next door and

3:53

had a key. As she

3:55

walked into the bedroom and saw

3:57

that the bedroom was in complete

3:59

disarray, And went back and got

4:01

her husband Ivan Ivan came over and sound

4:03

helen on the for the living room. Elements

4:07

in had a blanket. Wrapped tightly around

4:09

her face and her clothing had blood

4:11

on it. For. Sister

4:13

and brother in law called the police who

4:15

arrived to tell and department around nine thirty

4:17

in the morning. They noted

4:20

that there were some overturned furniture

4:22

and they really took note of

4:24

the fact that there was. I

4:28

saints. Church History class. He

4:30

kept dirty coffee cups in the

4:32

sink and policy in a coffee

4:35

maker. And

4:37

Helen's family had told them

4:39

that she was extremely. Tidy and

4:41

she would not have gone to bed

4:43

with dirty dishes and the sink so

4:45

that struck. Everybody is pretty. I'd. The.

4:49

Police also noted that there was half of

4:51

the ripped five dollar bill. On the floor. They.

4:54

Looked in Helens bedrooms and some blood on

4:56

Helens bed and on. The wall. They

4:59

collected here in blood samples from the scene.

5:02

Ellen's body was taken to Lincoln. For an

5:05

autopsy. The. Autopsy sounds that

5:07

she'd been raped and that are cause

5:09

of death had been suffocation. The

5:12

authority that was during the investigation

5:14

and Nineteen Eighty Five was the

5:16

Beatrice Police Department. Other to censor

5:18

their three investigated agencies that has

5:20

some jurisdiction in that area, one

5:22

would be the Beatrice Police Department

5:24

to would be the gauge County

5:27

Sheriff which is diggin' located in

5:29

Beatrice in their duty is to

5:31

patrol the outlying areas of the

5:33

county, not so much in the

5:35

city of Beatrice itself. In the

5:37

third to be the Nebraska See

5:39

Patrol which of course has jurisdiction.

5:41

Over the entire state. In

5:44

a press conference, the Beatrice. Chief

5:46

of Police said someone had pride

5:48

Helen Wilson's door opens and unless

5:50

the long. Did sound

5:52

Helen Wilson's. Purse and her apartment and

5:55

more than a thousand dollars tax.

5:58

Nothing of value, simply missing. Hammer

6:00

home. The

6:02

the address please Also said that no

6:04

one of the apartment building had heard

6:06

or seen anything unusual. On the night

6:08

of Helen Wilson's murder. Ellen

6:11

was insanely. Scrutiny or Obituaries.

6:14

Which was a member of the local Methodist. Churches

6:16

Women Circles and The Gauge

6:19

Counties Historical Society. She

6:21

had seven grandchildren and five great

6:23

grandchildren. Her

6:26

funeral was held the weekend after her

6:28

death and her family offered a one

6:31

thousand dollar. Reward for information about

6:33

her murder. The

6:35

Beatrice Police put a tape recorder next

6:38

to Helen Wilson's gravesite, hoping it would

6:40

lead to some clues. And

6:43

they searched, reaching out to other agencies for

6:45

help. The Nebraska State

6:47

Patrol offered to london the computer.

6:50

Something hard to come by Nineteen Eighty. Summarize:

6:53

The police in nearby Lincoln put their

6:55

teeth homicide. Detective on the case. Who

6:58

was zone around the states as the

7:00

greatest thing since Sherlock Holmes? They.

7:02

Called the F B I brought in the nest

7:04

be I profiler to take a look at the

7:06

evidence. The F B

7:09

I Profiler working on Helen Wilson's case

7:11

created a possible description of the person

7:13

they believed could have raped and murdered

7:15

her. They believed

7:17

he was a man in his twenties who

7:20

is sort of those friends as quote Timid.

7:22

And raised by a mother aunt that

7:25

was quotes domineering. The

7:28

Beatrice Police Chief told reporters. He

7:31

may have something against older ladies.

7:35

The sp I profiler wrote. He

7:38

can see with almost total certainty

7:40

that this crime was committed by

7:42

one individual acting alone. While

7:46

the Be actress police and the F B I

7:48

were working together. There was

7:51

another unofficial investigation. Happening in

7:53

town. It was

7:55

led by local farmer named Bird Cst.

7:58

Bird is a likeable guy. He's

8:00

a really fidgety guy. Burt

8:03

at one time had been a police

8:05

officer with the Beatrice police, but he just

8:07

didn't get along with the chief of police.

8:10

And by 1982, he resigned. So

8:14

in 1985, when Mrs. Wilson's murder is

8:16

announced, Burt decides that he is going

8:18

to solve the murder. He

8:21

knew Helen's family, and

8:23

so he offered as a private citizen to

8:26

start looking into the case for the

8:28

family. Burt's ear

8:30

seat was not a licensed private investigator,

8:34

but he started asking around town about

8:36

the murder. He asked

8:38

a friend at the Beatrice police for

8:40

access to the crime scene reports and

8:42

photographs. They said no. He

8:45

knocked on doors and interviewed people

8:47

he thought might know something. Burt

8:50

had been around Beatrice for a long time. It's

8:52

a small town. He

8:55

knew, I don't

8:58

want to say riff-raff, he

9:00

knew an element of

9:02

people in town that may not have

9:04

been known as upstanding citizens. One

9:07

person who Burt seriously spoke with was

9:10

someone he referred to as a confidential

9:12

informant, who later was revealed

9:14

to be a 17-year-old high school student. Burt

9:18

said she told him about a conversation

9:20

she had with a young woman named

9:22

Joanne Taylor. She

9:24

told them they'd spoken in a park around 730 on the

9:27

morning that Helen Wilson's

9:29

body was found. And supposedly

9:31

Joanne said, you know why those cop cars

9:33

are all around that building over there? It's

9:36

because Lobo and I killed Mrs. Wilson. Lobo

9:39

was a 22-year-old whose real name

9:41

was Joseph White. He

9:44

wasn't from Beatrice originally. He

9:46

had moved there a year earlier from California.

9:49

He had worked a construction job and

9:51

then got laid off. And so

9:53

there are all sorts of rumors that Lobo was

9:56

the guy who could be responsible for Mrs. Wilson's

9:58

death. Lobo. or

10:00

Joseph White, had already been

10:02

interviewed by the Beatrice Police about the murder.

10:07

Police didn't have DNA evidence they could use

10:09

at the time. DNA testing

10:11

wasn't introduced as evidence in criminal courts

10:14

in the U.S. until the next year.

10:17

But blood type testing had been around

10:19

for a while. And

10:21

a forensic scientist had identified two

10:24

types of blood in Helen Wilson's

10:26

apartment, type O and type

10:28

B. Helen

10:31

Wilson had type O blood, so

10:33

the police were looking for a suspect with type

10:36

B blood. And

10:38

not just anyone with type B blood, specifically

10:41

someone who was what's called

10:43

a non-secreter, which means

10:45

their other bodily fluids, like saliva,

10:48

don't contain their blood type marker. It's

10:51

rare. Only 20% of the

10:54

population falls into this category, and

10:56

only 10% of the population has

10:58

type B blood. And Joseph

11:00

was blood type O. The

11:03

Beatrice Police let Joseph White go. Soon

11:07

afterward, he left town. The

11:10

police interviewed more than 300 people

11:12

about Helen Wilson's murder, but

11:15

no arrests were made. And

11:19

then, four years later, in 1989, Bert C.R.C. got on a

11:21

plane. He

11:25

had a warrant to go and arrest Joseph White

11:27

for the murder of Helen Wilson. I'm

11:31

Phoebe Judge, this is Criminal. We'll

11:42

be right back. Thanks.

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all states and situations. Several

13:59

years, I've been working with the after Bert Circe had left

14:01

the Beatrice Police Department and started working on

14:03

the Helen Wilson case on his own, he

14:06

got hired by the Gage County Sheriff's Office

14:08

as a deputy. He

14:11

quickly requested the department's file on the

14:13

Helen Wilson case. I

14:15

think that Bert saw this case as

14:18

the case that was gonna make

14:20

him. Bert Circe

14:22

began his formal investigation into the murder

14:24

of Helen Wilson as a

14:26

Gage County Sheriff's deputy in early 1989. He

14:30

re-interviewed the former high school student

14:33

he'd referred to as his confidential

14:35

informant. She

14:37

told him again that she talked with Joanne

14:39

Taylor in a park at 7.30 on

14:42

the morning after Helen Wilson was murdered

14:45

and added that Joanne had

14:47

scratch marks on her neck. She

14:51

also told Bert Circe that she'd seen

14:53

Joseph White tear bills in half while

14:55

telling jokes at parties. And

14:58

she mentioned that on the night that the murder took

15:00

place, she'd seen Joseph White

15:02

and Joanne Taylor driving around

15:05

in a car belonging to a

15:07

man named Tom Winslow. She

15:09

had said that the evening before

15:12

Mrs. Wilson's murder, she saw Tom

15:14

Winslow pulled into the alley

15:16

just south of the old telephone building

15:18

where Mrs. Wilson's apartment was. And

15:21

out of Tom's car came

15:23

Tom, Tom's girlfriend at the time, and

15:26

Joanne and Joseph White. And Tom

15:28

Winslow had been arrested

15:30

for other things and had

15:32

a pretty bad reputation in Beatrice. So if

15:35

you were looking for a bad guy, Tom's

15:37

one of the people you might wanna talk to. Bert

15:41

Circe had spoken with Tom Winslow years

15:43

before as part of his

15:45

informal investigation. Tom had

15:47

told him he was at work at a truck stop on

15:50

the night of the murder. But

15:52

when Bert asked Tom's supervisor about it,

15:55

he found that the Tom had not been at work that night.

15:59

By the time, Here's the track down

16:01

Tom Winslow for more questioning. Tom was

16:03

in jail for beating up a motel

16:06

clerk. Tom agree to talk

16:08

with investigators. He thought it might help him

16:10

get out of jail. On

16:13

March Fourteenth, Nineteen Eighty Nine

16:16

Birth Sears the interviewed Tom

16:18

Winslow. It was videotaped. Tomlin

16:21

so began by telling him that he

16:23

driven around town with Julian Taylor and

16:25

just a flight, but that they dropped

16:27

him off at a friend's place. But

16:31

Bert Sears he said, oh, witnessed

16:33

had seen town at Helen Wilson's

16:35

apartment building. Then

16:37

Tom Winslow said he had gone to

16:39

the apartment building but didn't going. To

16:43

tell me. I

16:47

am. Oh Philo, That

16:49

lazy lot more. yeah, years old. Am I

16:51

right or wrong? About

16:54

having. Them

16:56

around the the lives of Maria. Possibly

16:59

Harper. Said idols

17:02

I think about them It was shunted

17:04

off. The.

17:09

Videotape is the interrogations to. Instill

17:12

tickets so definitively. That

17:16

decision against any first spotted

17:19

knows videotape sigma pass that

17:21

he was low now, Tomlin

17:24

so had a different story

17:26

movie. There. Are

17:30

other. Way.

17:34

When an. Apart.

17:38

Okay, how did you get almost as. If

17:40

I. Recall

17:43

it. Could

17:45

have you ever got scared? Or.

17:48

Do you remember? there's as of the let me

17:50

tell you. I don't remember.

17:53

Okay, he told police

17:55

that he did go into helen molson

17:57

department the julian taylor just a slight

18:00

and another woman. He said

18:02

Joseph White argued with Helen Wilson and pushed

18:04

her into the bedroom. He

18:07

said Joanne followed, and he

18:09

heard Helen Wilson scream. Tom

18:11

said he then left the apartment. After

18:14

he told all of this to the police, he was

18:16

released from jail. Bert

18:25

Circe and other investigators went to

18:27

arrest Joseph White. Joseph

18:30

had moved back to his hometown of

18:32

Coleman, Alabama. They

18:34

arrested him for first-degree murder. And

18:37

they interrogated him that night. At one

18:39

point in time, Circe

18:41

told Joseph, well, we're gonna get your blood

18:44

and we're gonna get your hair and saliva, and it's gonna

18:46

prove you were there. And Joseph's response

18:49

to him was, you can have it because it's

18:51

gonna prove I wasn't there. Bert

18:54

Circe also implied that they had

18:56

found Joseph's fingerprints on the $5 bill found

18:59

in the apartment, which wasn't

19:01

true. It is perfectly

19:03

legal for the police

19:05

to lie to a suspect when they're interrogating

19:09

them. Joseph White

19:11

asked for a lawyer, but

19:13

deputies continued questioning him without

19:15

one present. At

19:17

one point, Bert Circe said to him, you

19:20

didn't push the little old lady over? To

19:23

which Joseph White replied, how

19:25

could I, I wasn't there? While

19:29

Bert Circe and other deputies were

19:31

interrogating Joseph White in Alabama, Joanne

19:34

Taylor, the woman who'd been named as

19:36

his accomplice, was also being questioned.

19:40

She was living near Asheville, North Carolina at

19:42

the time and had been arrested

19:44

by local police. They

19:46

tell her that she committed a

19:48

murder in Gage County and that

19:50

there's this guy named Lobo who

19:53

is saying that she was there and they can

19:55

prove that she was there. Joanne

19:58

has no capacity to know whether that's really. not.

20:03

In 1981, four years before

20:05

Helen Wilson's murder, Joanne

20:07

Taylor had moved to Beatrice. She

20:10

was 18 and pregnant at the time. She

20:13

got in fights and also got in trouble with

20:15

the police. She

20:17

started seeing a psychologist named Dr.

20:19

Wayne Price. Dr.

20:22

Price ran a local mental health

20:24

center and also worked

20:26

as a part-time sheriff's deputy. He

20:29

would occasionally hypnotize potential witnesses for

20:31

the police. Dr.

20:35

Price diagnosed Joanne Taylor with

20:37

borderline personality disorder. She

20:40

would be delusional at times and her

20:42

delusions and delusions are fixed false beliefs.

20:44

They're beliefs that are completely real to

20:47

you too. The person knows having the

20:49

delusion even though they're not true at

20:52

all. One of Joanne's delusions is

20:54

that she had a twin sister of

20:56

course she didn't but she had this

20:58

sister that Joanne said was Jolene and

21:00

they would have conversations and

21:04

it would be easy to get Joanne to believe

21:06

something that's not true. When

21:09

the police arrested Joanne Taylor in

21:12

Asheville, she said they

21:14

told her she was present at the murder of

21:16

Helen Wilson and then

21:18

they began to ask her about what

21:20

happened. Joanne said that the murder occurred

21:22

at 5 30 in the afternoon. Joanne

21:25

said that the woman lived in a tan house

21:27

on the edge of town and that Joseph and

21:29

the other boy and she had gone there to

21:31

do yard work and she

21:33

talked about how Joseph

21:36

stabbed Helen Wilson repeatedly. The

21:39

local police in Asheville wrote all of

21:41

this down and then the

21:43

next day Bert Circe and

21:46

the other officers from Nebraska

21:48

arrived to question Joanne Taylor.

21:52

When they sit down to interrogate her

21:54

she starts telling them the exact

21:56

same story. It didn't

21:58

line up. The

22:00

murder took place in the middle of the night, not 5.30 in

22:03

the evening. Helen

22:06

Wilson didn't live in a tan house. There

22:09

wasn't any yard work to do in the middle of

22:11

February. When

22:13

the Nebraska police pushed back, Joanne

22:16

said she was having trouble remembering what

22:18

had happened. You

22:20

knew I needed talking about a real serious offense here,

22:22

right? Okay. We also

22:24

realized... You

22:27

don't think you have a tape to

22:29

open, is there? No. I

22:32

don't think so. How

22:35

could you have that tape open

22:37

and open if I was him? At

22:40

one point, they took a break. And

22:42

when the tape starts again, Joanne's

22:44

story had changed. Now

22:48

she said it was an apartment building, not a

22:50

house. At nighttime, not 5.30

22:52

in the afternoon. She

22:55

said Joseph White did a trick where he

22:57

ripped up dollar bills. She

23:00

later said she had held a pillow

23:02

over Helen Wilson's face, suffocating

23:04

her. Bert

23:07

Searcy asked her about her blood type.

23:10

Joanne, do you know what your blood type is? It's kind of

23:12

positive. Oh, hot. Joanne

23:17

Taylor said that there was one other man with

23:19

them that night, and that he and

23:21

Joseph White had attacked Helen Wilson. But

23:24

she said she couldn't remember the other man's name. She eventually

23:27

said it was someone who worked at the truck stop. And

23:30

Bert Searcy seemed to try to remind her of

23:33

the name Tom Winslow. At

23:35

one point, he said to her... You go to

23:38

Windmill, listen. The

23:45

next day, back in Nebraska, she was shown

23:47

six photos, and she

23:49

picked out Tom Winslow. Bert

23:52

Searcy went to arrest Tom Winslow for first

23:54

degree murder. That

23:57

night, after he was booked into the Gage County Jail, Tom

24:00

wants a little of this meat when we're here. Now,

24:04

apparently you have

24:06

several things to say that are

24:09

a little different than what you said

24:11

before. That's right. No,

24:13

no, no, no. Okay. So why don't I just let

24:15

you tell me what you want to tell me here?

24:18

Tom Winslow had changed the story again.

24:21

The part that I said I knew that doesn't

24:24

matter and everything. That is

24:26

not true. He

24:28

had it. Well, I don't believe

24:31

that right now. You're lying. Okay.

24:33

I've got people arrested. They're sitting here telling

24:35

me exactly what happened. And

24:37

that's why they arrested. They confessed. I wasn't in

24:39

the boat. Bullshit, Tom. You were there. I

24:42

got people telling me exactly what you did

24:44

to that woman. He tells Bert that he

24:46

was lying before, that he wasn't there. He doesn't know

24:48

anything about it. He has no idea. I'm not going

24:50

to listen to this shit. Okay. If

24:53

you're just going to listen to it. Well, I'll go

24:55

back because I know I'm not lying. Well, something's wrong

24:57

with it there. How come everybody said you were? I

25:00

don't know. And that's why I can't figure it out

25:02

either. But I'm not lying. And I'm

25:04

not going to do time and maybe death

25:06

or something. I didn't have to do. No,

25:09

I wouldn't lie. And Bert again tells him, well, Tom, you

25:11

know, we're going to get your blood and your blood is

25:13

going to prove you were there. And

25:15

Tom said, that's fine. I've already given my blood.

25:17

And it cleared me. My blood type is A.

25:20

And if you like any hair, you can take any hair you want because

25:22

I would like that. Well,

25:24

I'm just saying that we're probably

25:27

going to have to do this. That's fine. Go ahead. Because

25:29

I'm not scared. Because I'm not lying. Joseph

25:33

White, Joanne Taylor and Tom

25:36

Winslow stayed in custody for the murder. But

25:39

none of them matched the type B blood

25:41

that was found at Helen Wilson's apartment. They

25:44

have three people arrested, none of whom can

25:46

be the source of the crime scene blood.

25:50

The Beatrice police tell the Gage

25:52

County Sheriff and County Attorney, you

25:54

have the wrong people. And

25:56

the County Attorney and the Sheriff's

25:59

reaction was... This is our

26:01

case. Stay out of it. Don't muddy the

26:03

waters of our investigation."

26:07

So they just started talking

26:09

to or questioning or harassing

26:13

anyone who had a connection in any

26:15

way to Tom or Joanne or Joseph

26:17

back in 1985. Over

26:23

the next few weeks, they kept arresting more

26:25

people. They

26:27

arrested a woman named Deborah Sheldon. And

26:30

Debbie suffers from the same disorder

26:32

as Joanne. She is very easy to persuade. Deborah

26:39

had also been diagnosed with intellectual disabilities

26:41

as a child. When

26:43

questioned, she agreed that she was

26:45

at Helen Wilson's apartment on the night of

26:48

the murder, along with Tom Winslow, Joanne

26:50

Taylor, in just a flight. She

26:52

said they pushed their way into the apartment and

26:55

tried to rob Helen Wilson. She

26:57

said she was trying to help Helen Wilson when Joseph

26:59

White pushed her out of the way. Deborah

27:02

said she cut her head, but

27:04

she didn't have type B blood. The

27:07

deputies asked if anyone else had been at the apartment

27:09

that night. She said she was

27:11

having trouble remembering. Psychologist

27:14

Wayne Price, who also worked as a

27:17

part-time deputy, visited her at the jail.

27:19

He'd met her years earlier for an evaluation

27:22

and knew that she'd been diagnosed

27:25

with intellectual disabilities. And

27:28

Wayne Price had told her, well, you've

27:30

repressed your memory if you just go back

27:32

to your jail cell and relax. Memory

27:35

of this may come back to you in bits

27:37

and pieces in your dreams. Deborah

27:43

Sheldon was interviewed by the police again. This

27:46

time, she said another man, James Dean,

27:48

was with them at the scene of

27:50

the murder. She told

27:53

police that before she was, quote,

27:55

blocking it. They

27:57

arrested James Dean. two

28:00

days, James maintains, I wasn't there, I had

28:02

nothing to do with it, you got the

28:04

wrong guy, I have no idea what you're

28:06

talking about. But then, James

28:09

took a polygraph test. When

28:11

they tell James about it, the story is

28:13

that he miserably failed his polygraph and that

28:15

he knows something about this, he needs to

28:18

come clean. So his

28:20

attorney agrees to have James

28:22

sit down for a session

28:24

with, again, Dr. Wayne

28:26

Price. In this

28:28

session, and his attorney is present for this, and

28:30

so is the county attorney, and

28:33

in this session, Wayne Price counsels him,

28:35

James, that the fact that he had

28:37

failed his polygraph indicates that he has

28:39

a subconscious knowledge of

28:41

being at this murder. And if he just

28:44

goes back to his cell and

28:46

lays down and relaxes, the

28:48

memory of this murder may come back to

28:50

him in bits and pieces. James

28:53

Dean continued to meet with Dr. Wayne Price.

28:56

He was shown pictures and videos of the

28:58

crime scene and was taken to

29:00

Helen Wilson's apartment. He

29:03

also later said that he was told by

29:05

deputies that he would get the

29:07

death penalty if he didn't cooperate with the

29:09

investigation. It wasn't

29:11

long before James starts dreaming that

29:13

he was present. James

29:17

Dean then gave police a statement. He

29:20

said he had been at the murder. He

29:23

said, quote, I feel

29:25

that I remembered it in my sleep. I

29:27

obviously had some kind of a subconscious

29:30

block. When

29:32

they tested his blood, it was O negative.

29:37

Five people had been arrested and

29:39

none of them had type B blood. We'll

29:44

be right back. Support

29:59

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32:01

late May, 1989, Deborah

32:03

Sheldon had another dream in jail. She

32:06

said she had a nightmare about

32:09

someone else being there. And

32:11

she told Bert Circe that it was someone

32:13

wearing like a white sweatshirt

32:16

and with dishwater blonde hair.

32:20

Bert Circe showed Deborah Sheldon a

32:22

photo of Helen Wilson's upstairs neighbor,

32:25

a woman named Kathy Gonzalez. And

32:27

what Debbie said is that, yeah, that's the person.

32:33

Back in 1985, the police

32:35

had found a bag in the dumpster

32:38

outside Helen Wilson's apartment. In

32:40

the bag were some papers and a bra with

32:42

some blood on it. The

32:45

Beatrice police traced it to Kathy

32:47

Gonzalez, but after questioning

32:49

her, they dismissed her as a suspect.

32:54

Bert Circe also showed the photo

32:56

of Kathy Gonzalez to James Dean,

32:59

who said for the first time that she'd

33:01

also been there that night. The

33:05

deputies went to arrest Kathy Gonzalez

33:07

where she now lived. She's

33:09

working in a fish joint in

33:12

Denver, and all of a sudden

33:14

there's the cops at the door saying you're

33:17

under arrest for the murder of Helen Wilson

33:19

in Beatrice. Kathy

33:21

Gonzalez's blood was tested, and they

33:23

learned that she had Type B blood. But

33:26

she said she wasn't there that night. They

33:29

told her she was there, and she'd forgotten.

33:33

Why would I block this out? She told

33:35

Dr. Wayne Price when he visited her in

33:37

jail. He

33:39

told her that her memories would likely

33:41

resurface. Between

33:44

March 15th and May 25th,

33:46

1989, a total of

33:48

six people had been arrested for the

33:50

murder of Helen Wilson. You

33:52

know, like the movie Castle Planket, Roundup, the

33:55

Usual Suspects, I think that's what Bert did.

34:00

It all told police different stories about what

34:02

had happened on the night of the murder,

34:05

stories that had shifted many times. But

34:08

the story that was eventually told in court

34:11

was that on the night of the murder, Deborah

34:13

Sheldon, Joanne Taylor, and James Dean

34:16

met up with Tom Winslow and Joseph White.

34:19

They ended up at Helen Wilson's apartment building,

34:22

where they met Kathy Gonzalez, who lived there

34:24

too. What was believed

34:26

happened is that Tom

34:28

Winslow and Joseph White and

34:31

Joanne Taylor and Debbie Sheldon

34:34

and James Dean and Kathy Gonzalez

34:36

all entered Helen Wilson's apartment and

34:38

beat her on the

34:40

floor of her bedroom and then drug

34:43

her out to the living room. And Joseph

34:46

and Tom raped her.

34:48

And then, according to

34:50

Debbie Sheldon, the apartment was ransacked looking

34:52

for money. And they didn't

34:54

find any money or they found maybe $20, something

34:56

like that. And then they left.

35:00

One of the six, Joseph White, insisted

35:03

he was innocent. The

35:06

other five accepted plea deals for

35:08

going trials. They threatened

35:10

him with strapping him into the electric

35:12

chair and killing them if

35:14

they didn't tell the truth. And

35:17

so you better tell the truth or you're going

35:19

to rot in prison or you're going to sit

35:21

in the electric chair. The

35:26

problem was the stories they

35:28

told weren't true at all. It

35:32

would be almost 20 years until it was discovered

35:35

that none of them had been involved

35:37

in Helen Wilson's murder. That

35:41

part of the story on the next

35:43

episode. criminal

35:51

is created by Lauren Spore and me.

35:54

Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie

35:56

Bishop is our supervising producer. There's

36:00

Susanna Roberson, Jackie Satiko, Lily

36:02

Clark, Lena Sillison, and Megan

36:04

Knave. Our show is

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mixed and engineered by Veronica Semenetti. Julian

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36:56

I'm Phoebe Judge, this is Criminal. Thanks

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