0:00

If you're not hungry for

0:02

my presence, for my word, or

0:04

for me, it's because you have already

0:07

filled yourself with other

0:10

things.

0:17

Hello everyone and welcome to today's

0:19

episode of Conversations. I'm Jon Bevere

0:21

joined by my beautiful and anointed wife,

0:24

Lisa Bevere. We have been married 41 years

0:26

and I'm more in love with her today than the day we

0:28

married and I pray that goes from glory

0:30

to glory all the way until we're

0:32

in heaven together. And so today,

0:35

honey,

0:37

I'd marry you in a heartbeat if I could, I would.

0:40

You are so lovely to me. Anyway,

0:43

this is a part of a family of podcasts. We've

0:45

got At Home with the Beveres, we've got The Godmother

0:47

with Lisa Bevere, and then of course this one, Conversations

0:50

with Jon and Lisa. And if

0:52

you review, rate, and subscribe,

0:55

you are possibly going to get your review

0:58

read on air and today

1:00

we are going to actually read about He Is

1:03

Real. He Is Real wrote this, okay?

1:05

And I love that. He is real. You

1:07

light a fire for the truth, Lisa. The

1:10

first time I heard you speak at a woman's conference

1:12

in San Antonio, Texas was in 2018.

1:16

Thank you for continuing to show me how important

1:19

it is to know God, to know the

1:21

Bible, in order to have good

1:23

discernment. May God continue to

1:25

speak through you and your family.

1:28

That is a beautiful testimony. That's beautiful.

1:31

I know it is. So today, what are we doing,

1:33

babe? We're talking about spiritual hunger.

1:36

So important. And this is something that right

1:38

now I'm finding so many people

1:41

wrestling with this, Jon. They're feeling

1:43

like, I don't have a hunger

1:45

to read the Bible. I don't have a hunger to worship.

1:47

I don't have a hunger to go to church. You

1:50

and I have seen this wax and

1:52

wane in people's lives. I

1:54

remember there was a moment in my life,

1:56

Jon, where I cried out to God

1:59

and I said, Hey God.

1:59

I need you to give

2:02

me a hunger

2:03

for your word. I need you to give me a hunger

2:05

for your presence. And he said back to me,

2:08

if you're not hungry

2:10

for my presence, for my word,

2:13

or for me, it's because you have

2:15

already filled yourself with

2:18

other

2:18

things. Didn't he actually, because

2:21

this really impacted me. This is my journal. I

2:23

know. So you correct me if I'm wrong, but

2:26

I thought he said, Lisa, I'm not responsible

2:28

for your hunger. He did say that. Yeah. And he

2:30

said, if you're not hungry, it's because you've already

2:32

filled yourself with other things. And so

2:35

we want to actually set you up to

2:37

develop a hunger. And what he said to me after

2:40

that was he said, in a

2:42

land of abundance of things, abundance

2:45

of distractions, abundance of diversions,

2:48

the things that would entertain, satiate

2:51

in this time period, he

2:53

said, if you want to be hungry for

2:56

more of me, you're going to need to fast.

2:58

Okay. So if we can go to the

3:00

scripture for the podcast,

3:02

this is the one that's going to frame the whole podcast.

3:04

It's Proverbs 27, seven. Now

3:06

I'm going to quote it out of the King James. It

3:08

reads differently out of the New King James, the New Living,

3:11

all of them. But it basically says this,

3:13

the soul that is full

3:15

will loathe the honeycomb. But

3:18

to every hungry soul, even

3:21

bitter things are sweet. Now let's

3:23

break that down. The soul that is

3:25

full will loathe the honeycomb. Now

3:28

let's go to understanding eating physical

3:30

food. I know when

3:32

I was a young man.

3:33

Are we going back to your twinkie days or

3:35

whatever? No, we're not going back to those days. We're

3:37

going back to how much I enjoyed

3:40

Thanksgiving because every Thanksgiving

3:42

we had a meal that I absolutely loved. It's the

3:44

turkey, it's the dressing, it's all of that. And these are

3:46

back in the days when I used to eat, you know, stuffing.

3:49

Which you need to bring back. We're

3:51

going to make sourdough. Actually, we're

3:54

not going to ignore that. Actually, as a young

3:56

man, I would skip.

3:59

very like breakfast, skip lunch,

4:02

anticipating that meal.

4:04

And I remember when my mom brought it

4:06

all out, I would gorge myself.

4:09

You and all the other Americans. Yes.

4:11

Now I remember one time we went over to

4:14

somebody else's family for

4:16

Thanksgiving in the evening. So

4:18

mom cooked her usual Thanksgiving meal

4:21

about two o'clock in the afternoon, one

4:23

o'clock in the afternoon. I gorged myself. When

4:26

we went to this other family that they

4:28

lived like 20 minutes away from us and it

4:30

happened to be my dad's boss.

4:33

That woman put out turkey dressing,

4:36

the cranberry sauce, all the stuff

4:38

that I just gorged myself on two hours earlier.

4:41

And I had no

4:43

appetite for it. In fact, it

4:45

repulsed me. You loathed it. I loathed

4:47

it. That's what the Bible says. So the very thing that I

4:50

skipped

4:51

breakfast for in order to be

4:53

so hungry for, I now,

4:56

the same food, I'm loathing. And

4:59

when you fill, just as you said, you

5:01

fill your soul with

5:04

all kinds of things, the ESPN,

5:07

the social media,

5:09

mainstream media, all the information

5:12

that's just blasting at us every single

5:14

day. You can fill up your soul quite

5:18

quickly.

5:18

Entertainment has become a substitute.

5:21

When people are uncomfortable, they

5:23

entertain themselves rather than

5:26

press in to say, why am I uncomfortable?

5:29

So you and I have been in ministry now over 40

5:31

years. How is it that we

5:33

have been able to maintain the hunger? I

5:36

know with me, I've had

5:38

to watch what I fill my soul with. I

5:41

will notice that sometimes if I'm watching

5:43

too much golf and I realize...

5:45

That puts you to sleep. Well, he actually does.

5:48

Anyway, I'm really, and I'm seeing

5:50

my hunger wane for

5:53

reading the scripture in the morning. I

5:54

need to go, wait a minute, back off. We're not

5:56

going to watch it. It's actually

5:59

a self-rein Regulated to back off

6:01

forcing you to watch golf. Is that what you're saying? Well, no.

6:03

Yeah, what I'm saying is I start watching How

6:09

full my soul is and what it's filled with

6:11

so it's really important

6:13

What we're filling ourself with and we have

6:15

to monitor it You know Lisa I

6:18

just as I had if I would have been wise

6:20

that day I would have eaten less at

6:22

my mom's meal So I would have enjoyed the meal

6:24

with the family that they invited us to spend

6:26

thing or that invited us to spend Thanksgiving With

6:29

them the same thing applies

6:31

with monitoring ourselves on

6:34

how much intake we're taking of

6:36

the Word of God prayer fellowshiping with one

6:38

another and maybe how much intake we're

6:40

taking of Harmless things such

6:43

as watching Wimbledon or or watching

6:45

the US Open Golf Tournament or

6:47

watching a program that we're really getting into Or

6:50

movies or how much time we're socializing.

6:53

I've actually over 40 years Kept

6:56

a self-monitor on myself. I'm

6:58

checking my soul constantly now one of the

7:00

things that's a real good indicator for me is if

7:04

I open up that Bible in the morning and

7:06

I'm

7:07

I'm finding myself having to do it

7:09

instead of excited to do it. My

7:11

hunger is weight If

7:14

I write so you're there. Yep, how

7:16

do you like there's people

7:18

right now? They're going through the motions. Yep

7:21

And they say alright John that's where I'm at

7:23

right now. I'm disciplined. I'm going through the motions

7:26

How did you make that switch to where there's actually

7:28

a hunger?

7:29

So

7:30

there's a couple things number one

7:33

there needs to be connection with him

7:35

if it's just intellect It's just

7:38

reading the Bible. Well, if you read a book 40

7:40

times, you know, you're gonna know

7:42

what's gonna happen

7:44

When you're interacting with the Holy Spirit

7:46

when you read

7:47

it becomes much more exciting And

7:50

the other thing I noticed is The

7:53

less I read the Bible the less

7:55

I want to read the Bible. So it's just

7:57

the opposite of food you think okay

7:59

I'm going to stop eating food. It's going to

8:02

make me really, really hungry. I mean, anybody

8:04

goes on a day fast the

8:06

next day, they can't wait to eat, right? Because

8:09

your body is screaming, I'm hungry. Well, your spirit's

8:11

totally opposite. You know, the

8:13

word of God is food to our spirit.

8:15

The less you feed your spirit, the quieter

8:17

it becomes. It's not going to scream for more. It's

8:23

not going to scream for more. All right.

8:25

So I find that you'll hunger

8:28

for what you feed on.

8:29

Let me give you an example. When I was

8:32

a young man, I was a real junk food junkie.

8:35

Here we go. I knew this was coming. The hostess,

8:37

the highs. You developed

8:39

the hunger for the unhealthy. The big

8:41

max. I developed a hunger for the

8:44

unhealthy. For the unhealthy. So

8:47

I remember I walked into my fraternity. The

8:49

Holy Spirit said, your body's my temple. Take care of it. I'd

8:51

only been a Christian for a year and a half. I didn't know a thing

8:53

about health food. So I had to start educating.

8:56

Well, I started eating fish and I

8:58

started eating

8:59

green salads like wild

9:02

mixed field greens or spinach. And at

9:04

first I had to make myself eat it. Right.

9:07

I really was craving the Big Mac. But

9:10

what I didn't realize is after two years, at

9:12

least,

9:13

I lost my appetite for the Big Mac. And

9:15

I wanted the

9:16

fish and the mixed field green salad.

9:18

You didn't have mixed field green salad when

9:20

you're in college. We didn't discover that for 20 years.

9:23

Well, I started eating healthy salads.

9:26

Right. I know you are.

9:28

And that everybody else loves it too. So I'm good with it.

9:31

So anyway, I've

9:34

had so many times people eating a donut because

9:36

I haven't had a donut in 40 years. You

9:39

know, you

9:40

know, you know, I'm going to call you on that. Okay. Come

9:42

on. Paleo donuts are baked and they're made out of almond.

9:44

Did you say donut? Okay.

9:47

All right. I haven't had a normal donut

9:49

that's deep fried in almost 40 years. So

9:52

people

9:53

are eating donuts in front of me and they go, oh, you really

9:56

want this? I actually look at them and I honestly

9:58

say, I really.

9:59

don't want it. I don't have

10:02

an appetite for it. Well, let's

10:02

go back to the spiritual. And I

10:05

love your discipline and I celebrate

10:08

your lack of donuts. But let's

10:10

go back to how. How do

10:12

we've talked about developing a healthy,

10:15

so here's the person, they're

10:17

reading the Bible,

10:18

but they're not hungry

10:21

for it. They're going through the motions. You

10:23

said you have to involve the Holy Spirit.

10:26

Can you elaborate on that? Because

10:28

I feel like that is the key

10:30

thing right there

10:31

that most people don't know how to connect

10:33

with. You can either read the Bible or

10:36

allow the Bible to read you. So just

10:39

example, last week I was reading

10:42

the book of 1 Peter

10:44

and I saw some things

10:46

and I said, Lord,

10:47

please let my soul not

10:50

be, because he was talking about abstaining

10:53

from the things that wage war with your soul

10:56

and desire the sincere milk of

10:58

the word that you may grow. And I remember out loud, I'm

11:01

upstairs in my study and I said, Lord,

11:04

please give me a hunger

11:07

for your word and may my soul stay

11:09

clear from that which

11:11

is dishonoring to you. And so

11:14

I'm actually talking as I'm reading

11:16

and

11:16

you're interacting with the word, right?

11:19

And before I even sit down and read the

11:21

Bible, and I've done this for 40 years, I always say,

11:23

Holy Spirit, please reveal Jesus to me in a way like

11:25

I've never known before.

11:26

That's always, that's what you taught

11:28

me when you, when you first led me to

11:30

the Lord before we ever married, you said to

11:32

me

11:33

before you read, pray, ask

11:36

the Holy Spirit to open

11:38

your eyes and make the word alive in your

11:40

life. And you told me that,

11:43

that I could pray before I read.

11:46

And I always took it as

11:48

this

11:49

partnership where I was reading the word,

11:51

but the word, as you said, was reading me. And it was

11:53

an, it was a conversation that

11:55

I was meditating

11:57

on the word, that the word was

11:59

speaking to me. it was alive. Well,

12:01

and let me tell you, it was a healthy

12:03

fear. A

12:05

healthy fear. I'm going to say fear. It

12:07

was a healthy fear that caused me to say that. Because

12:09

let me tell you why. I had just

12:12

taken theology 175 at Purdue

12:14

University, which was the Old Testament survey.

12:18

The guy came in and everything was

12:20

academic. And he said there's 656 contradictions in the

12:22

Bible. You can't prove

12:24

Jesus was historically raised in the Bible. And

12:26

the Red Sea was a marsh when Moses crossed it. I

12:30

beheld a man who could

12:32

quote large sections of

12:34

Isaiah.

12:35

Now, a lot of people can't quote. He

12:38

would sit there and quote large sections of Isaiah.

12:40

Yet, he would say those things and everything

12:42

was academia.

12:43

And I remember thinking,

12:45

okay,

12:47

how do the Pharisees who can quote the first five

12:49

books of the Bible come to the point where they're actually

12:51

fighting against the Son of God? And that

12:53

healthy fear said, okay, I

12:56

need the Holy Spirit because I read where

12:58

Paul said the letter kills. Well, the letter is

13:00

the actual written scripture, but

13:02

the Spirit gives life. So I said,

13:04

okay, Holy Spirit, you're the one that causes

13:07

this letter to become life.

13:09

So I started praying and I still do

13:11

it 40 years later. And that's why I taught you that

13:13

because the healthy fear of seeing

13:16

where my

13:17

Old Testament survey teacher had

13:19

become quoting that many

13:21

scriptures, then realizing the Pharisees did the

13:23

same thing, propelled me to say, God,

13:26

I need your help when I read this scripture.

13:28

And you and I, now you know, I've

13:31

dropped out a couple of times, but you and

13:33

I have been reading the same

13:35

passages at the same time.

13:37

And we both have

13:40

seen things

13:41

that we've missed even being

13:43

Christians for more than 40 years. Yeah. And

13:45

teaching the Bible for 40 years. Yeah. Like there

13:48

was a moment. And I just, I feel

13:50

like what happens is if you lose

13:52

your wonder, if you lose your wonder when you're

13:55

reading the word, you, you, and

13:57

I've heard you say this, you read what you believe.

13:59

You default to what you think you're going

14:02

to hear. But if you pause

14:04

and if you ponder and if you pray

14:07

and if you say, Holy Spirit, show

14:09

me, show me what you're showing. Because you and I

14:11

both were like, wait a minute. And

14:13

this is just a silly thing. But

14:16

for all of my Christian life

14:18

until a month ago, I thought

14:20

that children of Israel were quiet

14:23

when they walked around the wall six

14:26

times and only made

14:28

noise on the last day. But

14:30

they actually blew the trumpet on

14:32

the six days and then added

14:35

their shout to a long

14:37

blast on the seventh day. How

14:40

I missed that? You know, I'm actually pretty

14:42

sure that I heard somebody preach.

14:45

They were totally quiet. And of course they

14:47

were. Might

14:47

have been me. But the trumpets weren't. I

14:49

know I'm not accusing you of that. But here's

14:51

the thing. Keep an

14:54

awe. Keep

14:56

that wonder involved. I mean, you and

14:58

I have had we're empty nesters now

15:01

and we've been having a lot of fun with dinner

15:03

where we actually enjoy

15:06

making dinner together and we enjoy

15:08

it. And we're talking about spices

15:10

and we're cutting things. And, you know, we're

15:13

experimenting where it's not just we

15:15

have to eat, but we're enjoying

15:18

eating. And if the word of God is

15:20

just something you have to do, of

15:22

course, you're not going to have a hunger for. But if

15:24

you are excited about it and if

15:27

you have someone to discuss it with and if you

15:29

have somebody who is walking

15:32

alongside you and you're looking at

15:34

the same thing from different perspectives

15:36

and different eyes, it's it increases

15:38

your hunger. Plus, again,

15:41

the word of God was

15:43

lost to this this gentleman that was

15:45

your instructor who he had lost

15:47

his wonder. Yeah, he he knew

15:50

about it, but he didn't know the God of

15:52

the word. He only knew God's word

15:54

in wrote.

15:55

So a suggestion.

16:00

of the frameworks, the mental

16:02

frameworks that I have when I approach the Bible in

16:04

the morning,

16:05

is I think to myself,

16:07

I'm going to read this like I never read it before in my

16:09

entire life. And I'm going to pretend like I'm

16:12

sitting down with the author, who

16:14

is the Holy Spirit, he is the author

16:16

of this book, and he's going to talk

16:18

me through it as I read it. So in other

16:21

words, I'm not just going to read the words to get done

16:23

with the chapter, I'm actually going to be listening

16:25

to my heart because that's where he speaks to us, not

16:27

our heads, our hearts. Listening my

16:29

heart as I'm reading it and allowing

16:31

him to

16:32

give commentary. I mean, wouldn't that

16:34

be wonderful if I could sit down with a famous

16:36

offer like a C.S. Lewis, I've

16:39

never read The Chronicles of Narnia.

16:41

And I start and no, no, no, no, I'm

16:44

doing an example. Okay. And I've never read the, I've

16:46

never read the Lion, Witch and Wardrobe. And I

16:48

begin to read it

16:50

and C.S. Lewis goes, and this is

16:52

why I wrote this. And this is why I was

16:55

thinking and what I was, I'm now

16:57

getting people to see the backstage

16:59

pass, right? Of what

17:02

was behind C.S. Lewis writing that, and I'm

17:04

getting more in-depth understanding.

17:06

When we do that with the Holy Spirit, I mean,

17:08

he's there with us. If we ask him, see,

17:11

God says you don't have because you don't ask.

17:14

I tell people this all the time before I preach, I could be

17:16

the

17:17

best communicator. I'm not saying that I am. I can be

17:19

the best communicator on the planet. But if the Holy

17:21

Spirit doesn't touch these words, you're

17:23

just getting information,

17:25

not transformation. And transformation

17:27

is what we need. So if I'm just reading the words

17:29

in this book, I'm going to get information,

17:32

not transformation. And the wonder

17:34

is gone. So the wonder of

17:36

knowing that the author at

17:39

six in the morning is sitting

17:41

right there with me, because he is.

17:44

He said, I'll never leave you nor forsake you. But

17:47

if you don't ask him, he's just going to sit

17:49

there in silence while you read a book.

17:51

But the word is alive. And so I

17:53

love that. Yes. Because it's alive, it

17:56

speaks to you. I mean, I love

17:58

how you said earlier that.

19:59

saying, watch what you're

20:02

eating, let your hunger, your appetite

20:04

for the things of the kingdom never be

20:06

compromised by the things of this world.

20:09

And you know when it's happening, you

20:11

recognize it initially. And if

20:13

you just say, okay, I'm going to put that aside,

20:16

time not to look at those things anymore

20:18

for a while, or that program anymore for a while,

20:21

time to just really get back in and replace

20:24

it with the word of God, and then watch

20:26

how alive it becomes and how hungry you become.

20:28

That's great. So with

20:30

that, let's pray. I

20:32

love it. I'd love

20:35

to do that. Heavenly Father,

20:37

in the name of Jesus, Lord, we've

20:39

got people listening right now that

20:41

have said, God, I have

20:43

lost my appetite. I find

20:45

it so hard to even open

20:47

up the Bible.

20:49

I'm asking, Father, that you would

20:51

be merciful. You are a merciful

20:53

God. You are. And

20:55

so I'm asking that, Lord, as they

20:58

open, cause an ignite

21:00

to happen in their hearts, in their souls,

21:03

that gives them that spark of that

21:05

fresh hunger again for

21:08

your word. I do know that we

21:10

are responsible for our hunger, but,

21:12

Father, we're asking that you would help. Give

21:14

a kickstart for every single person that's

21:17

listening under the sound of our voice. In

21:19

Jesus' name we pray. And

21:21

as they begin to read, let

21:23

that wonder, that awe, the awe of

21:25

your presence, your ways, your

21:28

perfect ways, once again begin

21:30

to fill their hearts and their souls and

21:33

may their souls even receive

21:35

the bitter things, that those

21:37

bitter things will become sweet to them because they know

21:39

the bitter things, what would seem bitter, Lord,

21:42

would actually be something that would cause growth

21:45

and maturity in their life. It's in Jesus'

21:47

name we pray. Amen.

21:49

You know, I want to add to that. Addison had

21:51

said yesterday during prayer

21:53

that when God corrects us, it's

21:56

His way of claiming us. He's calling

21:58

us children. So those bitter things. that are corrections

22:01

in the Word are actually God's affirmation

22:03

that you are His child. That's

22:06

so good. Well, this has been Conversations

22:08

with John and Lisa. We just want to remind you to please

22:10

rate, review, and subscribe.

22:13

It's really important that you do that because more

22:15

people then end up getting the message. And then

22:17

the other thing we want to mention is we have a

22:19

whole discipleship app. It's called

22:21

Messenger X. You can download

22:23

it for absolutely free. It is

22:26

loaded. We've put almost all

22:28

of our intellectual property on this because

22:31

we want to see you disciple. We want to see you

22:33

grow more in the image and likeness of Jesus

22:35

Christ. And that was His command to

22:37

go into all the world and make disciples. Use

22:40

it to go through courses, to go through

22:42

books with your friends. You can do it. You

22:44

can track each other's progress. Just

22:46

go to the app store, type in Messenger

22:49

X, or if you've got an Android, go

22:51

to Google Play, Messenger X. If

22:53

you have a computer, you can go messengerx.com.

22:56

We've made this

22:57

possible for you no matter what

22:59

it is you use to get your

23:01

information on. We want to make sure you're being

23:03

discipled. We love you so very much. And until next

23:06

time, this again has been Conversations with

23:08

John and Lisa. We

23:10

hope you enjoyed this episode of Conversations

23:13

with John and Lisa Bevere. If you

23:15

haven't already, make sure you subscribe

23:17

and rate this podcast wherever you love

23:19

to listen. Also, if you haven't already, go

23:22

right ahead and download Messenger X to hear more

23:24

content from John and Lisa Bevere and

23:26

other great

23:27

messengers. Again, thank you so much for

23:29

joining us and we'll see you next time on Conversations

23:32

with John and Lisa.