0:02

L A County is one of those counties have been hit extremely

0:04

hard because their patient population

0:06

is so large and their capacity so small

0:09

that they have actually told some

0:12

of their e M S personnel that if

0:14

a patient has known to be COVID and

0:17

they have a lot of coal morbidities and they

0:19

appear extremely sick, to

0:22

consider not transporting them to the hospital.

0:25

That's Dr Paul Bagba, an

0:27

emergency medicine physician who shares

0:29

firsthand how the system in the US was

0:32

never prepared to handle such an overwhelming

0:34

public health disaster. In our conversation

0:37

with Dr Bogeba, we discussed the silent

0:39

yet widespread effect the pandemic is having

0:41

on our frontline workers. The mental

0:44

health and well being of our doctors, nurses,

0:46

and medical practitioners seems to

0:48

go unnoticed, and yet despite

0:50

this undeniable emotional and physical strain,

0:53

they're the ones we turn to for help while demanding

0:55

perfection. It's really an impossible

0:58

proposition. On the other end

1:00

of that phone call to our emergency services

1:02

is meliitsa rangel, a loving daughter,

1:05

a protective mother, and a practicing

1:07

nurse. Melita shares the devastating

1:09

story of how her father paid the ultimate

1:11

price while protecting her from the disease,

1:14

and all because of an overwhelmed and broken

1:16

system. And yet for someone experiencing

1:18

such loss, Melita understands the heavy

1:21

weight and burden placed on our healthcare workers

1:23

and speaks with empathy when sharing her

1:25

story. So my

1:27

sisters called the MS so they can pick up

1:29

my father. And then maybe

1:32

two hours passed and E M S never came.

1:34

My sisters called E M S again and E M

1:36

S told him that there was

1:38

no space, that they couldn't pick it up,

1:40

so they canceled the ambulance

1:43

services from my father. At

1:45

that point, my sister came immediately

1:47

to pick up my dad. She put on full

1:49

ppe and rushed into the hospital.

1:52

That was the only option we had. I'm

1:58

Justin Beck, founder and CEO of

2:00

Contact World. I'm here with my co

2:02

host Katherine Nelson and DT Pava,

2:05

and over the coming months, we'll be talking to scientists,

2:08

researchers, celebrities, experts,

2:11

anyone who's been affected by COVID and

2:13

getting to the bottom of how we can improve public

2:15

health together. We may not have all

2:17

the answers, but you deserve to understand what

2:19

goes on in your neighborhood and the decisions

2:21

that will affect you and your family's health. Welcome

2:27

to Contact World. We're here to share

2:30

two stories with you today. This is a bit

2:32

of a heavy episode, but we need to bring

2:34

attention to these topics. The show

2:36

is about truth, So one day, when

2:38

we look back at the overall carnage of this

2:40

pandemic, the emotional and mental

2:43

toll this has had on society as a

2:45

whole is really underestimated.

2:47

I mean, I haven't seen friends or socialized

2:50

since March, but I sometimes

2:52

remind myself how relatively easy

2:54

I have it. But to think of being

2:56

a frontline worker and what's become

2:59

a normal day in a clinical environment

3:01

is another story altogether. I

3:03

mean, we're going to see post traumatic

3:05

stress disorder. These heroes haven't

3:08

even had the time to mentally unpack what's

3:10

happening to them. What do you two

3:12

think about the mental anguish and stress of

3:14

the pandemic and how it's affected our hospitals

3:17

and clinical environments. So,

3:19

you know, justin I feel that even

3:21

before we making to think about mental

3:23

health or even you know, move beyond

3:25

the current crisis, we all need to first

3:27

reckon with the skill or what has been

3:30

experienced right our front

3:32

line health care workers among the most vulnerable

3:34

populations at this point in time, and as research

3:36

shows that the risks

3:39

to the well being of these health care workers

3:41

are not even very understood, forget about

3:43

trying to solve for those issues. I

3:45

think the key thing with mental health right

3:48

now is do we have the ability

3:50

to self check? Do we have that moment where

3:52

we're able to check in with ourselves

3:54

and make sure everything is okay. And when

3:57

you're working, you know, as a physician in a hospital

3:59

or you're a nurse and you're there

4:01

around people that are dying and suffering

4:04

and hurting, perhaps you're so

4:06

busy helping everyone else you don't have

4:08

that ability to stop and make

4:10

sure that you're mentally at well. I

4:13

was thinking the other day about how we

4:16

put a cap on over the

4:18

road truckers and how much time that they can

4:20

spend on the road, or we put

4:22

a cap on how many

4:24

transcontinental or trans oceanic

4:26

flights a pilot might

4:28

take because of the impact

4:31

that their decision making might

4:33

have on lives of people.

4:35

Right you can't put a trucker on the road

4:38

for fourteen hours a day because he might

4:40

crash. But we don't put

4:43

health or mental wellness or well

4:45

being programs in place for our frontline

4:47

workers. And they're in the same decision

4:50

making capacity matters of life

4:52

and death, and they are working

4:54

seven days a week, in some instances too

4:57

many hours a day. They

5:00

inevitably are going to make bad decisions

5:02

or they're going to miss things because it's

5:04

impossible for a human to

5:07

endure the anguish that they're going

5:09

through the amount of time they're working,

5:11

and then you multiply that by

5:14

the pain of decision making that

5:16

they have to go through every day, sometimes literally

5:18

denying people critical care. It's

5:20

unbelievable. Yeah, true,

5:23

justin what you're saying is, you know, it's so sad to

5:25

see that how little we have been prepared in

5:28

terms of providing care to people who are

5:30

responsible for caring for us, and that came

5:32

through during this pandemic. Why don't

5:34

we have ancillary services or frequent

5:36

visits to psychologists for these health care

5:38

workers. That's something very basic they should be

5:40

having access to. Right. I

5:42

agree with both of you, but I struggle

5:45

to say that we should limit the

5:47

time that they spend because there are

5:49

shortages. It's a tough thing

5:51

to say, But do

5:54

we want to turn people away

5:56

from the hospital because there's no doctor on the shift.

5:58

It's almost like we're in cry, says, and we need

6:01

them so much, but then at the same

6:03

time we want them to be clear

6:05

and level headed enough to make the right decisions.

6:08

It's a horrible situation, it really is. There

6:12

is a need for better preparation, and when we talk

6:14

about better preparation, you know we are not prepared

6:16

for such emergencies, right. I

6:19

believe this gives us a perfect platform

6:21

to think about such issues. So if at all something

6:23

like this happens again, we do not face

6:26

the situation. We don't have to

6:28

make that compromise that we're making today. You

6:30

know, in hindsight is and

6:32

I think that we're not talking about pivoting the way that

6:34

we're handling it now. But what

6:37

we need to do is we know we need

6:39

to better resource health agencies and

6:41

we need to change the way we've

6:43

thought about clinical care based

6:46

on what we're putting these doctors through.

6:49

You know, a few years down the road, when they really

6:51

have a chance to think about what they've gone

6:53

through, we're probably going to see unprecedented

6:56

amounts of PTSD suicides

6:59

from frontline how workers. We're not going

7:01

to know what the real long term impact of

7:03

this is until we're looking

7:05

back at it, and you're right, what

7:07

we need to do is take a very honest look

7:09

at the way we've managed this, the way that

7:11

we've been prepared for it or unprepared

7:14

for it, and we have to be ready

7:16

to change things drastically in some

7:18

cases. I agree. Begins with the conversation

7:21

and deep te I know this

7:23

episode focuses a lot on your

7:26

interview with Dr Paul Bargeois.

7:28

Tell us about that conversation and

7:31

kind of set it up as far as what

7:33

a listener can expect to learn

7:35

from him. Sure. So, Dr

7:38

Bagua is actually an emergency physician

7:40

who has worked in Florida

7:43

before and also now in Canada,

7:46

and what we really talked about was more

7:48

on the healthcare workers side, is to what they

7:50

face in terms of extreme COVID

7:53

footigue and how that comes with

7:55

their own risks and rising

7:58

levels of anxiety and fational

8:00

exhaustion that they go through. They have

8:02

to make heart decisions and decide

8:05

who needs the care and these services the

8:07

most. Thank

8:19

you Dr Bada for joining us today. It's

8:21

great to have you here and to have an opportunity

8:24

to hear from the front lines on how

8:27

as an emergency physician you were

8:29

experiencing and treating COVID nineteen

8:31

directly, as well as we will talk

8:33

a bit about, you know, your own experiences

8:36

with the inequities of the health

8:38

system in the US and globally and

8:41

what you see while working firsthand

8:43

with the patients. So let's

8:45

first talk about your choice to

8:48

work as a physician. Why medicine?

8:51

What inspired you? Thank you first

8:53

for having me on the show. I guess

8:55

your question is a question that they asked pretty

8:58

much all physicians when they enter MAD school,

9:00

was why medicine? You know, most physicians

9:02

have a story behind it, So I'll give you a bit of a

9:04

story. When I was growing up, I actually wanted to be

9:06

a police officer. I thought was the

9:08

most rewarding thing. I would see police officers

9:10

on the road, and as I was going

9:13

through school, I was on a call

9:15

with one of my friends who was a police

9:17

officer, and it would ended

9:19

up being a medical call, and I noticed

9:22

that they're kind of almost first

9:24

responders, just like emergency medicine

9:26

is, and that kind of opened

9:28

my eyes up into medicine, and I decided

9:30

to do an elective away

9:33

in India and they

9:35

put me in the emergency room the first day that I

9:37

was there, and I had a child

9:39

that had his hand caught in a sugarcane

9:42

wheel. I couldn't really do anything

9:44

to help him. His hand was very

9:46

badly damaged. But I remember I literally just

9:48

went over and I sat with him and I put my arm

9:50

around him, and I think at

9:52

that point I realized that medicine

9:55

might be the path for me because he

9:57

was, you know, obviously crying, but that in

10:00

there and soothing him really drove

10:02

me towards medicine. Wow, what a story.

10:05

One of the next questions I had was, you know why emergency

10:08

medicine. I mean, of course, you know kind of mentioned

10:10

that and touch that, but do you see

10:13

there is more to it than just

10:15

being a physician that you really wanted to

10:17

serve in the emergency medicine area. When

10:19

I was going through medical school, I appreciated

10:22

all the different fields, but nothing

10:24

really hit home for me until I

10:27

did emergency medicine. When patients

10:29

enter a hospital, that is the first place

10:31

to go. No one knows what's going on with

10:33

the patient. You were the first one to see them,

10:36

and so I enjoyed that aspect. I enjoyed that

10:38

aspect of being the first person

10:40

to see the patient, being the first person to

10:42

diagnose something, because it really

10:45

starts there. That initial contact

10:47

is what drove me to emergency medicine.

10:50

So, as you trained to become a doctor,

10:53

did you personally ever see you

10:55

know, over the years, any health iniquities

10:57

you were also India, you said, right, So, I mean I would

11:00

say not just in the US, but also globally

11:02

where the challenges that came up

11:05

through the system, you know, specifically in caring

11:07

for the underserved communities and specifically who

11:09

gets scared. Did you see that? So?

11:11

You know, I think each country has

11:13

their deficits, but I definitely see

11:16

a disparity in healthcare in

11:18

every single country that I've been in a hospital

11:21

where I've spent some time with. One

11:23

of the main things across the board that I've

11:25

noticed is the preventative

11:27

care for the underprivilege to

11:30

prevent long term diseases.

11:33

And by that, I mean, you know, if you break your hand, you're

11:36

going to be seen no matter where you go, Right,

11:38

that is an acute problem that will

11:40

be treated. But if you

11:42

have long standing hypertension or high

11:44

blood pressure, that may not be

11:47

seen in a lot of countries, and a lot

11:49

of people may not have access to

11:51

manage that or to get to a physician.

11:54

So I think the biggest disparity that I've

11:56

noticed across the board, no matter where

11:58

I went, is to event these preventable

12:01

diseases, especially in the

12:03

under privilege. The way to fix that

12:06

is to get access out there, to get

12:08

access to a family doctor or primary

12:10

doctor. Right, I mean, you talk about

12:12

preventive care. That's very interesting. I mean in various

12:15

episodes that we've had so far, Dinner

12:17

Towers and Peter Hotels, where we have often

12:19

talked about how health and economic

12:21

crisis stemming from COVID situation

12:24

at this point in time has only magnified

12:26

the systemic barriers to health

12:28

and how they're particularly worse for these much groups.

12:32

But it has been existing, and there are certain

12:34

areas which have been completely overlooked, you

12:36

know, for years, and I believe

12:38

these complexities demand

12:40

for accountability, transparency,

12:43

and also solutions that transcend

12:45

health and health care programs as

12:47

they've been designed, you know traditionally. Do you

12:49

have a take on that, Yeah, So, absolutely.

12:51

I think, you know, COVID nineteen has definitely brought

12:54

to light the disparities and healthcare

12:56

and especially the under privileged communities. Initially,

12:59

when there's these came out, I I

13:01

had a theory and I'm sure a lot of physicians did as

13:03

well, that there we're going to be risk

13:05

factors that when you look back

13:07

at the thousands and hundreds and millions of patients

13:10

have been affected, who has been affected

13:12

the most? And there have been some small

13:14

studies that have come out of the States and globally

13:16

that African Americans, people with obesity,

13:19

people with smoking, you know, are

13:21

the ones that are affected most. And

13:23

some of these things like smoking smoking cessation.

13:26

Preventing smoking is a very simple

13:28

task that you can, you know, start

13:31

with public health, and some countries have done it

13:33

much better than others. Obesity,

13:35

especially in the United States, is a big concern.

13:38

But these things have been really

13:40

brought to light with the disease and it's

13:42

important. It's important that we just don't throw

13:44

them to the wayside when this disease is controlled.

13:48

So I think it's a great point that you bring

13:50

up. COVID nineteen definitely has brought to light

13:52

a lot of the disparities in healthcare. So

13:55

talking about COOD, Dr Bashua,

13:57

you contracted COVID yourself too,

14:00

How was it managing your own care while

14:03

also being in the same home with your family

14:05

and your wife and your kids. And I believe your wife

14:07

is also an emergency physician. She is,

14:09

she's a family physician. But when I had

14:11

COVID nineteen, physicians

14:14

make the worst patience, by the way, and I think you you'll

14:16

you'll find that across the board, we never

14:18

think anything's wrong with us. I was

14:20

practicing an emergency room. I

14:23

was on a regular shift. It was a Saturday night. COVID

14:26

had just been kind of on the news

14:28

for the last two or three weeks. This was back in March

14:31

of last year. And I went home and I

14:33

was pretty tired because I just brod six ships

14:35

in a row. And Sunday morning, I woke up

14:37

completely fine. Monday,

14:39

again, I felt a little bit tired, and I just thought it was

14:41

from the weekend. And Monday

14:44

night, I woke up at midnight and immediately

14:47

I knew something was wrong. I hadn't felt kind

14:49

of this way in a long long time. I think

14:51

the last time I probably felt this way was when I had the flu,

14:53

which must have been five or six years

14:55

ago, and I had diffused

14:57

body aches. I had a pretty pretty

14:59

bad had ache, enough that I could barely

15:01

open my eyes, and so immediately

15:04

I went to the spare bedroom and I texted

15:06

my boss at one am

15:08

and I said, listen, I think something's wrong. I'm gonna come

15:10

in for a test in the morning. And

15:13

at that point, the disease was

15:15

so new in Canada that

15:17

the testing wasn't there, so

15:19

the testing was so backlogged. They

15:22

initially thought my test was going to come back in three or

15:24

four days. It actually took eight days

15:26

to come back, and when the

15:28

test did come back, it came back negative.

15:31

Luckily, I had was off for

15:33

six or seven days, so before going back

15:36

to work, I called my boss and said, list of my

15:38

test isn't back yet. My disease

15:40

course, luckily, was only two or three days,

15:43

and the body aches, the headaches

15:45

completely went away, and I had no respitory

15:47

symptoms, thankfully, and

15:49

so I got to repeat tests the prior quarterback to

15:51

work, and my original test came

15:53

back negative, but my repeat

15:55

test came back positive, which means that my

15:58

first test was a false test and

16:01

so luckily my disease course was very

16:03

short compared to a lot of the other people

16:05

on some of my colleagues as well, and

16:08

I was out for about three weeks until

16:10

I had a negative swab to get back to work.

16:13

You bring an important point that it took you eight

16:15

days to get tests back just quarantin

16:17

NG and this confusing around things and also

16:20

talks a little bit about the unpreparedness that you will

16:22

have been going through. We'll touch

16:24

that topic a little later, but what I also

16:26

caught on was that he came back after six

16:28

shifts like it's been tough. Right. As

16:31

an emergency physician, we all know

16:33

your work is very important at any point in

16:35

time, but specifically during COVID nineteen

16:37

kindamic, you were saving a lot of lives.

16:40

And during the panda maybe we've been also reading

16:42

that there's been like chaos in many

16:45

hospitals globally, and this

16:47

comes with rising levels of anxiety

16:50

and emotional exhaustion, and

16:52

I find it as a pity. You know, I was just doing

16:54

some research that to date, no research

16:57

has focused on the emergency physician

16:59

ex hidents during the pandemic.

17:02

I saw only a few publications coming

17:04

from China where they kind of did some studies on

17:06

you know how emergency physicians

17:08

you don't really take the distress.

17:10

So as you faced, you know, you are

17:13

faced with an unpresident search of critically

17:15

ill patients showing up at the hospital without

17:18

warning. What was your personal

17:20

experience dealing with it? You

17:23

know, working in the emergency room, you do see

17:25

the worst, the worst. You're the person that's supposed

17:27

to diagnose the life threatening conditions,

17:29

So that in itself is hard enough to begin with.

17:32

And now you throw a disease in that process

17:35

where you have to put on personal protective

17:37

equipment, which takes time. You have

17:40

to sift through the cases

17:42

that you think are either COVID or there's something

17:44

else. It adds another layer

17:46

of complexity to your job. And

17:50

if you do that for a month or two months, that

17:52

may be okay. But people get COVID

17:54

fatigue and physicians get COVID fatigue,

17:57

and you start missing them

18:00

in cases that you normally would catch.

18:03

So it is very hard on the emergency room

18:05

physician and any physician in the hospital, the surgeons,

18:07

the pediatricians, the O, B, G, y n s. They

18:10

also have to contemplate is this

18:12

patient COVID positive. It is taxing

18:15

not only on the physicians in the hospital,

18:17

but the nurses, the text, the

18:19

CT people, the radiology people, even

18:22

you know, the ancillary staff that's there. And

18:25

then you brought up another great point as to the

18:28

hospital capacity. Right, so now

18:30

you are adding another burden

18:32

on the hospital system. And I don't care which country

18:34

you go to, the amount of

18:36

hospital space is not proportionate to

18:39

the patient population. Right. We need

18:41

more hospitals everywhere we go. But

18:43

the places that are really really hard hit

18:46

are the ones that their population

18:48

size is large and their hospital

18:50

capacity is not equivalent to that. And

18:53

you look at the news any day, what are the countries have

18:55

been hit the hardest, You know, Brazil, the

18:57

United States? Right, these are the countries you

19:00

can see the dispairy there. So

19:02

it's not only taxing, I would say, on

19:05

your physician, but it's also taxing on

19:07

the hospital itself. I was reading more

19:09

about Italy living in Switzerland. You know, I have more

19:11

contexts in Europe, but also you know a bit in the US

19:13

that multiple patients will just show

19:15

up, and you know that would mean that you would have to

19:18

kind of give care at the same

19:20

point in time. To multiple people, and

19:22

and it's evident, you know, like you're saying that critically

19:24

ill patients have been far greater

19:26

in number than the life saving equipment

19:29

itself. Right, the vent leads the hospital

19:31

beds, montree equipment and all of these things, and

19:33

then compounding appropriate ppe s that

19:35

you're talking about, for instance, and

19:37

you do talk about the preparedness, right,

19:39

you know, the hospital space is less than what

19:42

it should be. What do you think

19:44

there could have been around better

19:46

preparedness and response? If we just

19:48

turn back time, what could have been done

19:50

which could have made this a little bit better

19:53

as a situation. You

19:55

know, preparedness, especially

19:57

when we've never dealt with anything like this before,

20:00

is relative. And in the

20:02

emergency room we have a special department called

20:04

the disaster preparedness and by that I

20:06

mean we treat for environmental

20:08

disasters or chemical disasters. There's

20:11

never been any type of training for a pandemic

20:13

disaster, or even for the

20:15

hospital for that matter. So

20:17

looking back at it, how could

20:19

we have prepared for this? It shows

20:22

that the hospitals one are

20:24

not ready for the capacity for patients.

20:26

And that's what we can see it, which is pretty evident. Number

20:29

Two, we weren't ready as

20:32

far as personal protective equipment. But

20:35

I think the biggest thing would be to

20:38

look at our everyday operations

20:41

as a hospital and as physicians.

20:43

How do we treat people who have normal

20:46

conditions, yet we have

20:48

to be aware about COVID. How do we treat the heart

20:50

attacks and the strokes? What do

20:52

we have to do differently? Right? So

20:54

I think moving forward, we

20:57

have to think outside the box to prepare

20:59

for these things. And mainly

21:01

I think the big thing is getting

21:04

the hospital capacities up to par to

21:07

deal with all the patients. And I think a

21:09

lot of countries already doing that, especially here in Canada.

21:11

And you talked interestingly also about the stuff

21:14

and you know a lot of the physicians within

21:16

the hospital itself, and would

21:18

you like to talk a bit about emotions,

21:21

stress, anxiety, moral

21:23

injury and even the department

21:25

culture change during the pandemic? Right?

21:28

I mean, how do you keep all those healthcare

21:30

support functions and stuff motivated

21:32

to keep going. It's a tough job. It's a

21:34

very tough job, you know. It's I think

21:37

the emotions is the biggest factor

21:39

that we all have to I think control

21:42

and also deal with. I think it's something that

21:44

we have to talk about. I'll give you an example.

21:46

Recently, I had a patient

21:48

who was presumed to be COVID positive

21:51

was not breathing too well, and

21:53

I had to put a breathing tube down to help them

21:55

breathe. And when I came out of the

21:57

room, we have a system where the nurse is

22:00

watch us, and we watch the nurses as we

22:02

take off our protective equipment as to not

22:04

to contaminate everything. And

22:08

I was taking off my equipment and

22:10

my unit secretary came to me and said,

22:12

hey, the patient's husband

22:14

is on the phone, which, by the way, I think we should also talk

22:16

about that patients families are not allowed

22:18

in the hospital, which is a big

22:21

anxiety, especially for the patient,

22:23

but also for the families. Imagine

22:25

sending your family member in and you have no idea what's

22:27

going on. So, as

22:29

I was taking off my equipment, I forgot

22:31

to take off my mask, which technically

22:34

is contaminated, and I went to the seat and

22:36

I put it onto the desk and

22:39

my nurse, who's one of my outstanding

22:41

nurses, asked me to dispose it properly, and

22:43

I didn't, and I kind

22:45

of brushed her away in a sense that hey,

22:47

let me deal with this patient's family, which

22:50

is, you know, obviously concerned, but I should have dealt

22:52

with her concerns as well. So there's

22:54

this aspect of emotions are running

22:56

high with everyone, but it's such a

22:58

stressful time not only to the families,

23:01

but to the physicians, to the nurses.

23:04

So you have to be mindful of a

23:06

lot of the emotions that are going on in the hospital,

23:09

especially when people are

23:11

extremely sick. I think that's the hardest aspect

23:13

to deal with is you're not sure

23:15

you know who's feeling angry or who's feeling upset,

23:18

but you have to be there pretty much for everyone. In

23:20

the context of what you're saying in your story, I was

23:22

just reading that the burnout rate

23:25

of doctors practicing emergency medicine

23:27

and specific is estimated to be about

23:29

eighty six percent according to a recent

23:31

survey by Canadian Association of Emergency

23:34

Physicians, And also recently

23:37

one doctor's death in Quebec, Canada,

23:39

where you know, she committed suicide,

23:41

and that sent shock ways in the Canada's medical

23:44

community. The point I want to

23:46

just kind of bring in here is it's

23:48

not just we are poorly prepared in terms

23:50

of infrastructure. We're also

23:52

poorly prepared and little aware of the

23:54

potential devastation of

23:57

the health care communities worldwide. Right,

24:00

what's your take on that. When I was working

24:02

in Florida and I was part of the administrative

24:05

staff of the hospital that worked at I

24:07

brought up this exact topic. I said,

24:09

we need more support for

24:12

physicians dealing with kind

24:14

of the everyday emotions that they have. There was no support

24:16

system if a physician felt suppressed

24:19

or angry, There was no wordy for them to go to write.

24:22

The hospital had no ancillary staff

24:24

for them. We don't have that here as well,

24:27

right, So it's a huge problem. Imagine

24:29

going to an emergence room and

24:31

your physician has worked eight days or nine days

24:33

in a row, and they

24:36

are back after six hours of work. Do you really

24:38

want them taking care of you? Is there a chance

24:40

that they missed something? Absolutely? So,

24:42

there is very little support for

24:45

physicians as far as their emotions,

24:47

and it's a big problem because

24:49

it definitely affects performance and anything you

24:51

do. You look at sports players, you look at anything,

24:54

it's the same. Right, you need that support,

24:56

especially in high stress situations, and

24:59

so there is disparity, and I believe the numbers

25:01

that you've looked up, I think they're probably at that number.

25:04

Would you like to share some of the toughest moments

25:06

that you've faced as as

25:08

as an ear physician during COVID times

25:10

where you felt helpless,

25:13

powerless and you wanted to help patient

25:16

that you could not help. Do you have

25:18

any moments of grief in any story

25:20

to share? Yeah, I'll actually have. I

25:22

have two stories. One is COVID related,

25:24

one is not COVID related, one of which was

25:27

not my story, but I felt for the physician

25:29

because I trained with him and

25:31

he's a good friend of mine. And he went off

25:34

to l A County to be in attending and

25:36

he's been there for about six or seven years, and he called

25:39

me a month ago and

25:41

he seemed very down. In l

25:43

A County is one of those counties have been hit extremely

25:45

hard because their patient population

25:47

is so large and their capacity so small

25:50

that they have actually told some

25:53

of their e M. S personnel that if

25:55

a patient has known to be COVID and

25:58

they have a lot of comorbidities and

26:00

they appear extremely sick, to

26:03

consider not transporting them to the hospital

26:05

because their hospitals are so full, and

26:08

and they obviously have to talk to the physician

26:11

who was there at the hospital and give the vitals

26:13

in the scenario. But I remember

26:16

my colleague who called me after his night

26:18

shift. He said that he got

26:20

a call from the paramedics that it was his

26:22

neighbor that they

26:24

called in, and he

26:26

his neighbor actually was picked up

26:29

and on the way that the hospital passed

26:31

away. And so you know, it's

26:33

one of those things that as emergency physicians,

26:35

you see death all the time and you almost get

26:37

immune to it. You kind of brushed it off. But

26:40

I could feel the pain in his voice, and it

26:42

was one of those things that initially

26:44

you feel the pain, but then it just becomes numb. And

26:47

I had a similar case which was not a

26:49

COVID case. The actually just happened yesterday.

26:52

I had a patient who was

26:54

a thirty four year old who was a

26:56

mom of two who actually

26:59

saw my wife as a doctor,

27:01

and she was complaining of donald pain and my wife

27:03

ended up getting an ultrasound and the

27:06

ultrasound was concerning for a possible new

27:08

type of cancer, and she

27:10

was sent into the emergency room

27:12

because we needed to do a CT scan

27:15

and when we did the CT scan, we confirmed

27:18

the diagnosis. But because of

27:20

COVID, the time for her

27:22

to get referred to oncology is

27:24

going to take some time. And I remember

27:26

just sitting with her and I

27:28

I cried with her, you know, because

27:31

this is something that shouldn't you shouldn't

27:33

have to wait for. You shouldn't have to wait for seeing

27:36

an oncologist and getting treatment started just

27:38

because the virus is out there in a

27:40

thirty or four year old mom with two kids. It's

27:43

something I head home and it's just one of those things that

27:45

in a normal world without a pandemic, this

27:47

would have been dealt with much faster. Moving

27:58

on a bit into to come

28:00

as an ear doctor, are you also seeing any

28:02

spike in other non related

28:05

COVID cases? Is that putting a strain

28:07

on the hospitals as well? Absolutely?

28:09

You know that we have right now in Ontario

28:11

where I work, stay at home order at

28:13

least for thirty days. And you know, when you have a pandemic

28:16

like this, the diseases that should

28:18

be brought to light are not brought to light.

28:20

So for example, people who have adal pain are scared

28:22

to come to the hospital because of COVID nineteen,

28:25

and when they do come in, they have the most

28:27

severe problems that should have been

28:29

dealt with a month ago or two months ago. I

28:32

recently had a case of a person who had right lower

28:34

quadrant pain and they clearly had

28:36

appendicitis, and they sat at home for four days and

28:38

now they're a penicetis ruptured and

28:40

now they're in the hospital for a couple of days because

28:43

that rupture causes them to become septic.

28:46

So these common diseases,

28:48

appendicitis, heart attacks,

28:51

strokes, gall bladder problems,

28:53

these should be dealt with because their emergent

28:56

and people choose not to come, which

28:58

is rightfully so, because are scared of COVID

29:00

nineteen and the government has told them stay at home. So

29:03

it's a very big problem because common

29:06

diseases are being missed and

29:08

common diseases are going to the extremes,

29:11

so it's more of a burden when they come

29:13

in this late. I want to hand we talk about

29:16

these diseases and where people are not even coming

29:18

to the hospitals because they want to feel safe, as

29:20

well as we talk about healthcare workers and

29:22

physicians who are you know, kind of doing

29:25

so much more to just get through the

29:27

day, you know, and at the same

29:29

time, I want to have your perception about

29:32

general population, you know, how they

29:34

are reacting to the measures in place

29:36

globally, you know, to contain this virus.

29:38

You know who could be actually influential

29:40

in getting these numbers down,

29:43

like wearing masks, you know, keeping distances, etcetera.

29:46

You obviously do understand disease more than

29:48

any other man on the street does. But

29:51

how do you respond to, you know, people not really

29:53

taking care on these measures. Yeah,

29:56

you know, it's hard because I came from

29:58

a place called Florida, which a

30:00

lot of people in that state

30:02

have not taken this disease seriously. You

30:05

have extremes in that state of the very very

30:07

old people who are very susceptible disease,

30:10

and a lot of young people, especially in Southeast

30:12

Florida, who don't think that the

30:14

disease is actually true or there

30:16

it's not going to affect them. And then

30:18

you have people that are kind of in between that do

30:21

wear masks that sometimes comply with

30:23

the regulations. One

30:25

of the reasons why I came to Canada

30:28

was because the Canadian belief

30:30

do what's right for others, put others in front

30:32

of yourself, and I really appreciated

30:35

that about my family and friends that were up

30:37

here, and I wanted to be more like that.

30:40

It's hard because it's hard to get

30:42

everyone on board on the same page.

30:45

And even as simple as mask wearing, that

30:47

is probably one of the most simplest things that anyone

30:49

can do, or even social distancing,

30:51

right distance someone by six ft.

30:54

It truly doesn't sound hard, but no one does

30:57

it because I think it's in

30:59

human nature to try to do the opposite.

31:01

If I were to pick and I know there's a

31:04

lot of weapons now against COVID nineteen. We

31:06

have social distancing, we have mask wearing, we

31:08

even have vaccines. Out of

31:10

all those things, I think the biggest

31:12

thing you could do is social distance. If I

31:14

didn't have the vaccine, I would social distance,

31:17

and if I couldn't social distance, I would wear a mask,

31:19

and finally I would get the vaccine. I

31:22

think that is probably the last restore because

31:24

it's going to take time for the vaccine to roll out. There's

31:27

a lot of people out there that don't believe one

31:30

in this virus and number two in the

31:32

prevention of this virus. But you

31:34

can see the numbers on the news, and you

31:36

know, I don't joke with people, but I say,

31:38

if you really don't believe this, come to

31:40

an emergency room and let me show you a

31:43

lot you're talking about is really the personal accountability

31:45

and social responsibility. But I

31:48

imagine you guys a healthcare workers

31:50

on frontline, especially on top

31:52

of that with COVID, you have an extra challenge

31:54

being at a higher risk of contracting the disease.

31:57

I mean, I've seen some pictures wearing face

32:00

eels and moon suits and all that gear

32:02

to protect yourself. And we are

32:04

such a visual society. If we

32:06

if we haven't seen those struggles

32:08

of health care workers, we believe you know, it's

32:11

not happening, right. So I take

32:13

your point to that and do take pictures

32:15

from there and maybe post it. I think it's going

32:17

to really work, because we need a behavior change

32:19

in people. In my opinion, let's

32:22

stave deeper a bit into healthcare

32:24

systems in the US versus

32:27

Canada. I mean, you've worked in both the places,

32:29

and one of my questions was that why

32:31

did you make a choice to move to Canada, which you

32:33

kind of answered, but also

32:35

what has been your experience so far working

32:38

within the two different health care systems. So

32:40

I trained in a stakehold

32:43

Connecticut and then I moved to Florida for about

32:45

six years. There's a lot of major differences

32:47

between the two countries on healthcare in

32:50

general. One of the biggest differences

32:52

is access to healthcare. If you make

32:55

healthcare part

32:57

of your taxes, which Canada

33:00

as. It's a big difference in

33:02

the preventable diseases, like we talked about

33:04

hypertension, diabetes, high cholesterol

33:08

in years to come. That

33:10

prevents people from being hospitalized. And

33:13

that's what has made I think Canada so

33:16

great that everyone starting from

33:18

birth has access to healthcare. In

33:20

the United States, not everyone has access

33:22

to healthcare, so you see the most

33:26

disastrous outcomes because people

33:28

don't have management to eye blood pressure.

33:30

You see the strokes, you see the bad heart attacks,

33:33

and don't get me wrong, you see them here as well. But it's

33:35

gratifying to see people know their

33:38

medical history, know what medications

33:40

there on, no the last time they saw a

33:42

doctor. So I think preventive

33:44

healthcare is one thing. Now. One

33:46

thing that America is great at is if

33:49

you want to have a procedure done, say you

33:51

have hurt your d and you tore your a c L and

33:54

you want surgery tomorrow, you will get surgery

33:56

tomorrow. You have to find orthopedic surgeon

33:59

and your insurance resent and they'll do the surgery.

34:02

Because a c L surgery is not a mergent here

34:04

in Canada, you may have to wait a couple of months.

34:07

And I personally have not heard my a c L, so I'm

34:09

not that picture. But if

34:11

I were to, I would say I'm

34:14

okay with waiting. I'm okay with waiting

34:16

four or five months because someone out there

34:18

needs more emergent treatment. That's

34:21

kind of that sacrifice for the greater

34:23

good. But I have an analogy for

34:25

US healthcare in a sense that it's like Amazon. Right

34:27

you clicked the order on Amazon, it's there in forty eight

34:29

hours. If you want something

34:31

done in the United States, you will get it done in the United

34:34

States, but you may have to wait in a lot of socialized

34:36

healthcare settings, and it's

34:39

a trade off. Some people don't want to wait for that and

34:41

some people are willing to wait for that.

34:43

That's a great point to touch on access to healthcare,

34:45

and here living in Switzerland, I mean, it's one of the

34:47

best examples of that as well. I mean it's

34:49

really very much silar to what you're saying in Canada as

34:51

well, perhaps the most talked

34:54

about topic right now, and would love to

34:56

get your views on it. I'm sure you've been asked a hundred

34:58

times what do you think about vaccines

35:01

and do you think of them as a promise?

35:04

So? I think vaccines in general have

35:07

done a great good in global

35:09

healthcare. If you look at diseases

35:12

like measles and momps, we've

35:14

done such a great job with those, and I

35:16

think that vaccine children

35:18

has gone a long way. You look at the Gates

35:20

Foundation and what they have done. As

35:23

far as the COVID nineteen vaccine,

35:25

because it's so new, we

35:28

really don't know how

35:30

far it's going to go. We have trials,

35:33

but I think in the long term it's probably gonna

35:35

be close to what they have advertised, and I

35:38

think it's going to be another

35:40

tool to battle COVID nineteen.

35:43

Do I think it's going to be the end all, be all

35:45

treatment. I don't think so. I

35:47

think we have come to a new realization

35:50

that viruses are prevented

35:52

by distancing

35:55

and by wearing masks. But I

35:57

think getting the vaccine is absolutely

35:59

going to help in reducing the transmission

36:01

of COVID nineteen will absolutely

36:03

stop the transmission. I do not think it's

36:06

going to stop the transmission. I think

36:08

eventually a lot of us will get immune

36:10

to it, either via the vaccine itself

36:13

or via herd immunity. But I think

36:15

we've come to a realization that we need

36:17

to do other things besides vaccines

36:19

to prevent disease, washing our hands,

36:22

wearing masks. This may be a

36:24

new norm that we're we're going into. Um

36:26

it's I guess the only time will tell. But

36:28

back to your question support

36:31

vaccines. Yes, there have been side

36:33

effects to some vaccines. As you know,

36:36

some vaccines can cause these

36:38

terrible diseases like GM beret and

36:40

Bell's palsy. But in

36:42

the realm of all the people that have been vaccinated

36:45

in the world, this is a small,

36:47

small percentage, and I think

36:49

for the greater good, vaccines have done a great

36:51

service to all of humanity. Right, And

36:53

I do agree that you know, vaccines is not

36:55

the only solution. We have to continue wedding

36:58

masks and dick tists and preventive

37:00

measures need to be done as well. But

37:02

in specific to where you are in terms of

37:04

Canada, you know, how has been the reaction response

37:07

there and throughout how does that look

37:09

like? Yeah, so you know,

37:11

every government is different. Here, we have just recently

37:14

started it back in late December,

37:16

so now it is mid January. So like

37:18

a lot of the other countries, we are vaccinating

37:20

first the most susceptible

37:23

populations, which is the elderly

37:25

people, you know, compromise, the residents

37:27

at long term care, the workers

37:29

in long term care, and then the high

37:32

risk healthcare workers, which would be the I

37:34

c U doctors, the emergency

37:36

medicine doctors, the nursing staff, the

37:38

ancillery staff in those areas, the pharmacists.

37:41

You know, if you look at all the research throughout the world,

37:43

these are the populations that have been affected

37:46

the most. But I think Canada overall

37:48

is doing a great job with what they have.

37:51

Obviously everyone needs more vaccines, but prioritizing

37:54

the vaccines and distribution of the vaccines,

37:56

I think Canada is doing a great job

37:58

so far in that context.

38:00

Maybe one of the last questions I have for you is

38:03

a little bit long term, and what we're

38:06

starting to see is also a

38:08

mental health crisis. People

38:10

are tired of this. Of course,

38:12

it's taken a toll on people, So

38:15

what's your take on that, and if there's any

38:17

advice that you could give to people that would

38:20

be created as well. I have not

38:22

seen this much mental

38:24

health illness in my career.

38:27

My career so far has been a boy eight years after

38:29

residency, and in this past year

38:31

I've probably seen more mental health complaints

38:34

and patients than I have in the first seven

38:36

years of my career. This is again

38:39

a stressful time in all

38:41

of our lives, whether it's

38:43

not even a health care worker, whether it's a frontline

38:45

worker, or whether you know, if you're just

38:47

staying at home, it's very stressful. So I

38:49

think this has shed a lot

38:51

of light on mental health and mental health issues.

38:54

It has probably worse than people who

38:56

already have mental health issues, and

38:58

I think there should be a big I know candidate

39:01

here. We have recently passed and lecture

39:03

that brings more availability

39:06

and mental health to the public, and I think other

39:08

countries should be doing the same to follow,

39:10

because this is going to be a big problem

39:12

as we recover from COVID nineteen. This

39:15

is a time where you should be helping your neighbors.

39:18

You should be lending a hand

39:20

and calling a neighbor, calling a friend,

39:22

and being there for others. It's going to be stressful

39:25

for years to come. It's one of those times

39:27

that we'll never see again. We'll talk to our kids

39:29

about this, and this

39:31

is a time where we should be there for each

39:33

other. Dr Bawa, thanks for

39:35

sharing your experiences as someone who

39:38

has lived this COVID nineteen experience

39:40

in terms of physical, emotional

39:42

and psychological challenges. You

39:44

know of working through this pandemic, and

39:46

you, along with all healthcare workers

39:48

on the front lines, they have experienced significant

39:52

losses, trauma, grief, and

39:54

a burden that is really hard

39:56

to put in words. So all we can say

39:58

is you've been doing a tremendous job

40:01

and absolutely deserved all I respect.

40:04

So thank you. I appreciate you having me. Thank

40:06

you so much. Transitioning

40:10

from Dr bog Bob an e er physician

40:12

and hero faced with impossible

40:14

decisions day to day whose mental

40:16

health and well being are compromised because

40:18

the health care system is on the brink of collapse

40:21

at any given time, and like so

40:23

many others, she doesn't have the luxury

40:25

of taking a break. We hear

40:27

from Melizza Rangel and the tragedies

40:29

she's experienced firsthand, including

40:32

the loss of her father. I want

40:34

to warn you there is no sugarcoating

40:36

nous. Melissa was a patient,

40:38

a family member who lost her father, and

40:41

a nurse who truly empathized with her

40:43

caregivers all at once. I

40:49

want to start with you sharing

40:52

some fond memories of your family and

40:54

your dad. You know, growing

40:56

up, my dad was our

40:58

everything to us, not just I don't literally

41:01

say our everything, because he was our father,

41:03

but he was our mechanic, our plumber, are

41:06

you know, our worlder, our honeymoon.

41:09

He was a person that was always there for

41:11

us. Um My dad was always,

41:14

you know, the person that motivated as the most,

41:16

and even though he was

41:19

disabled, he

41:21

he really was very involved in

41:23

everything that we did. And

41:26

he was a positive influencer in our lives.

41:28

And that's something that that I hold

41:31

dearly with my heart because it's a something

41:34

that I don't ever want to forget. Yes,

41:37

of course, of course. Now I want

41:39

to talk about your experience

41:41

with COVID, your personal experience.

41:44

Can you share with us how

41:48

it all started your COVID symptoms.

41:52

My COVID symptoms started in June.

41:55

I had learned that I had got exposed,

41:58

right, so I immediately isolated my self.

42:01

I was feeling very tired, I

42:03

wasn't really feeling very hungry. I

42:06

noticed I was heavily sweating. Within

42:08

maybe like three days, I developed

42:11

a lot of facial pain. So

42:14

I did develop a fever. It was about

42:16

a hundred and one. Soon after,

42:18

maybe like within two days, I noticed

42:21

that just walking to the restroom,

42:24

I was very short of breath. So

42:26

at that point, you know, I decided

42:28

to get a note to a pulse

42:30

oxyometer so that I could actually

42:33

take my oxygen levels and see where

42:35

I was at. On the twentieth,

42:38

I went to the hospital and one of

42:40

the things they did was a they gave me antibiotics.

42:42

They gave me steroidse which we're gonna help me with my

42:44

lungs. I believe they even gave

42:47

me a rosa shot. And then they

42:49

sent me home and they're like, Okay, you're still good,

42:52

Just you know, try to relax. So

42:54

were they saying you have COVID or

42:57

were they just treating the symptoms not knowing

42:59

that it was COVID. At that

43:01

time, I still hadn't gotten my

43:04

results. So when you

43:06

went to the hospital, one of the main things

43:08

they did is that if you had any sort of symptoms

43:10

that were related to COVID, you

43:12

were automatically put with

43:14

people that had COVID. So

43:17

I was like, let's say, if I would have been negative

43:19

at that point, I would have been exposed

43:21

because of the fact that they had to separate

43:24

anybody had the symptoms and put

43:26

all those individuals together. So I

43:29

was in the room with a whole bunch of other people

43:31

that had symptoms. Yeah, that's

43:33

kind of scary to think of, because

43:35

you don't know who's really sick and who's

43:37

not, And as you've said, you

43:39

could be exposing yourself to the

43:42

virus just by being there when you're trying

43:44

to get better. So after

43:46

I went to a hospital, I went twice

43:49

right, because I kept developing the shortness

43:51

of breath. Do you feel because you're young, They

43:53

didn't take it as seriously maybe

43:56

I don't have like um

43:59

pre existing conditions, so

44:01

I'm guessing it was more of a your

44:03

oxygen is still okay, you

44:06

should be fine, which I understand

44:08

because at that point there was no rooms, and

44:10

everybody that was not hospital was because

44:12

they were in critical condition. You

44:15

know, you have to meet a criteria

44:17

to get admitted. So on

44:19

the third time that I ended up going to the hospital

44:22

was because I blacked up. I tried

44:24

to go to the restroom. I felt

44:26

my body shot it down and

44:28

I screamed for help. That's the last thing I

44:31

remember. And then the next thing, well, my father

44:33

was there China to help me, of

44:35

course, and rush me to the hospital.

44:38

I couldn't walk. I felt like I was suffocating.

44:41

I was just coughing and coughing, And

44:44

you know, the biggest thing on my head was

44:47

I just exposed my father. I

44:49

was very scared, but at the same time, my dask like,

44:52

why wouldn't I do it? You're my daughter? Wow?

44:55

So um, he's

44:57

my hero. That's the love of father

44:59

has as kids. Yes, so

45:03

do you know whether any MC service

45:05

was called for you or not? Or do you not

45:07

remember because you were passing out? No,

45:09

my dad didn't call because he knew

45:12

that everything was very packed and we

45:14

had already been here in the news. There

45:16

was ambulitis with actual patients waiting

45:19

in the ambulances. He just

45:21

rushed me straight into the hospital. I

45:23

mean, my oxygen was in the low eighties.

45:27

If I walked and went into the seventies,

45:29

Like I was pretty signotic. I

45:32

felt like if I took any steps or if

45:34

I walked, and I was going to die. It's

45:37

not something that I wish on anybody.

45:39

It was a very horrible feeling.

45:42

Yeah, I can't even imagine. So

45:44

your dad makes the ultimate sacrifice

45:47

and takes you to the hospital. Tell

45:50

us about your experience this time around

45:52

at the hospital. When

45:56

we got to the hospital, they were

45:58

a little bit more organized. I

46:00

remember the first time I went, there was just a crowd

46:02

of people outside, you know, waiting to

46:05

even go into the e er or you

46:07

know, waiting to go in through the COVID side.

46:11

Um. When we got there, the lady in the

46:13

front I remember that she uh

46:15

asked my dad what was wrong, because he's

46:17

the one that got off, and he's like,

46:19

my daughter can't breathe. He's like, we need a wheelchair,

46:23

and they they

46:25

said, well, you grab it, right, So my dad

46:27

grabbed the wheelchair. He's

46:29

the one that wheeled me into the hospital.

46:32

Once I was there, they

46:34

checked my oxygen levels and

46:36

at that point they're like, okay, you can't

46:39

really walk and I was like, no, I I can't

46:42

breathe. And that's where they admitted

46:44

me. When I got there, it didn't

46:46

take that long I want to say, maybe like

46:49

thirty minutes max. Before they put

46:51

me in a room. And was that room

46:53

by yourself or with other people? When

46:56

I was in the r I was by myself

46:59

for two days, and after two

47:01

days I shared a room

47:03

with an older lady

47:06

who had COVID and she

47:08

was passing. Wow,

47:12

that must have been tough. How do you

47:14

feel about the care that you receive or

47:17

lack of care if you feel that way

47:19

at the hospital. When I

47:21

was at the hospital, I

47:24

I had this one episode where

47:27

I really needed to go to the restroom.

47:30

But at the same time, we keep hearing code

47:32

blue, like maybe every thirty minutes,

47:34

right, And what does code blue mean? Again?

47:37

Code blue means that somebody is unresponsive,

47:40

they're crashing, they're dying. I

47:43

mean, you're pretty much trying to save somebody

47:45

from dying. Being a nurse,

47:47

I know that somebody is going into cardiac arrest

47:50

anytime I hear called blue, so

47:52

I knew what that was. That

47:55

day, I can see

47:57

the nurses running back and forth and

48:00

I really needed to go to the restroom. The

48:02

thing is that when you have COVID you're

48:05

stuck to your bed, your bed bound. Any

48:07

step that I took, even if it was

48:10

to go to the restroom, I felt like I was

48:12

going to pass out and die. I felt

48:14

really horrible. I was

48:16

scared to like pass out in the restroom

48:18

and just suffocate. I

48:21

was terrified. I am not gonna lie.

48:23

It was something that was very scary.

48:26

It was a horrible experience. I

48:28

remember calling the cob

48:31

bell so that the nurses could come, and

48:33

they never came. I waited

48:35

an hour. I called again

48:38

and they're like, it's because we're having a lot of emergencies,

48:40

which honestly I understood because

48:43

I kept hearing all the coding.

48:46

I tried to hold it at least I

48:48

want to say, three hours without going

48:50

to the restroom until I just couldn't

48:52

anymore. So I grabbed

48:55

whatever I could and I had

48:57

to use that to go to the restroom on my own, in my bed

49:00

um and trying not to dirty anything because

49:02

at that point, like I just couldn't hold it anymore.

49:05

Eventually the nurse got there and she

49:07

said, I am so sorry. At

49:10

that point I couldn't be mad because

49:13

I saw her face. She

49:15

wanted to cry. Like the workload that she

49:17

had was too much for her,

49:19

and I remember her telling me it's

49:22

because I have like thirty patients. So

49:25

me putting myself in her position, I'm like, if

49:27

I have all patients that are bad abound, there's

49:29

no way I could provide the

49:32

proper care for any of them.

49:34

I just told her not to worry about it. I feel

49:36

bad because I had pretty much

49:39

made a mess. There

49:41

was no way that I wanted to put any more stress

49:43

on somebody that's trying their best to help

49:46

somebody when I know

49:48

they don't have the resources to do it. Wow,

49:50

you have such a great heart, because you know a lot of people

49:52

would not be thinking about somebody

49:55

else and feeling empathy at that moment, and

49:57

they would just be frustrated. I am

49:59

a nur, so I know that they

50:01

were suffering just as much as we were.

50:04

So I was there for about I want

50:06

to say, a week and a half, and

50:09

because we're all on oxygen and

50:11

none of us could shower, we weren't allowed to

50:13

shower. So when I made a mess,

50:15

I asked her, you know, I know it that you have

50:18

a lot going on, and I know that you cannot help

50:20

me. I'm like, but can you at least bring me a

50:22

new basin with water and soap.

50:25

I told her I would like to like clean myself,

50:28

like you know, at least do a bed bath on

50:30

my own, and that is what I

50:32

did. Um, I did a bed bath on

50:34

my own, and she did bring me the like the little

50:36

tampoo and everything so that I could try to do it

50:38

on my own. So eventually

50:41

you started to get better, right, yes,

50:44

any time that I tried to

50:46

breathe, like you breathe in and you're taking

50:49

that guple there, but when you have COVID,

50:51

it's like you try to breathe and it's just stuck

50:53

and it doesn't go into your lungs. And

50:56

that's how I felt. Twenty four hours

50:59

after I had last uh, I actually

51:01

was able to take my first breath by

51:03

myself, and I

51:05

was shocked. I'm like, Okay, this is actually working.

51:09

So tell us about the

51:11

progression of you getting better and

51:14

what was happening on the opposite end of

51:16

the spectrum with your father. So

51:19

when I was getting better, my dad

51:21

started to get worse. He

51:23

started developing a cough and

51:25

then my son would call us and he's like, oh, his oxygen's

51:28

eighties um where he started dropping

51:30

even more and then his blood sugar started

51:32

rising and at that point it's like,

51:34

okay, we need to take him to the hospital.

51:37

So my sisters called the MS so they

51:39

can pick up my father. And then maybe

51:42

two hours passed and E M S never came.

51:44

My sisters called e M S again and e MS

51:47

told him that there was no

51:49

space, that they couldn't pick it up, so they

51:51

canceled the ambulance services

51:54

for my father. At that point,

51:56

my sister came immediately to

51:58

pick up my dad. She full

52:00

ppe and rushed him to the hospital.

52:03

That was the only option we had. Wow.

52:06

So when he got to the hospital, do you

52:08

know how long before his symptoms

52:10

got worse. He

52:13

was in the e er for

52:15

three days, and his

52:18

symptoms started getting worse the

52:20

day that he was supposed to

52:23

be released. My dad was

52:25

never able to get pastma right away like I

52:27

was, because there wasn't anymore. I

52:29

tried to donate myself, but because

52:31

I had just had COVID, They're like, you don't

52:33

even have anti bodies yet, it takes a

52:35

while for your body to develop them.

52:38

I wanted to see

52:40

my dad old, and I knew that

52:43

he had diabetes, and I knew he had had retention,

52:45

so I knew at one point this was gonna

52:47

probably kill him. But I didn't

52:49

think that COVID, which was a virus

52:53

that appeared out of nowhere right,

52:55

was actually gonna take what we cared

52:57

for the most, which was my father. It

53:00

really broke my heart over all,

53:03

the fact that we couldn't be there to hold his hand,

53:05

and we couldn't be there at all with him.

53:08

It still seems very surreal,

53:10

like it seems like it's all alive,

53:12

like it's fake, but it isn't.

53:15

A lot of people are like COVID, Joe, COVID

53:17

is, It's not real. I had COVID

53:19

and I had no symptoms. Okay,

53:21

well, some people really don't have symptoms

53:23

and they are lucky and they are fortunate.

53:26

But for those who have gone through COVID

53:28

and have experienced loss, it

53:31

is something that you don't wish on anybody.

53:33

It is something very hurtful and

53:36

it's very real, and it's something that

53:38

I hope that a lot of people

53:42

really really really make sure that they're

53:44

doing everything in order to not get sick. And

53:46

just if you know when you leave home, you

53:49

know Hug, Hug those people

53:51

you know, Hug your parents, Hug your families

53:53

because you don't know if

53:56

you're gonna see them next or if you're never

53:58

going to see them again. At this point,

54:00

this is what has come down to, and as

54:02

sad as it is, it's what's going on

54:04

right now. I'm

54:06

so sorry about your loss. I am sorry

54:08

about your experience. I'm sorry that you missed

54:11

opportunity to receive the care

54:14

that you deserve in the first world country.

54:16

And you know, I understand you have empathy

54:19

for the nurses, but you know, at

54:21

the same time, it's heart wrenching to

54:23

hear that you weren't able to be

54:26

taking care of the way you should have been taken care

54:28

of. My favorite thing

54:30

when you were talking about your dad is how your face

54:32

lit up. You're sharing your memories of

54:35

him. How would you like for us

54:37

to remember your father? My

54:40

dad? He um,

54:44

he was the best. He

54:47

was the best. I

54:49

just want everybody to remember him

54:51

as a person that always

54:54

um gave us a hot twenty body, strangers

54:58

or a strangers, anybody on this read.

55:01

He would actually stop and you know,

55:03

try to help those in need, even

55:06

though we didn't help much. My

55:09

dad did a lot of things for a lot of people,

55:12

and I did. What I wanted

55:14

to remember the most was how he

55:17

always had a smile. Can

55:24

you imagine having a family

55:26

member denied ambulance service?

55:29

What about being in the shoes of an e er physician

55:31

who has to decide where to allocate

55:34

limited resources and

55:36

your decision means the death of somebody

55:39

else's family member. How

55:41

about having a heart so strong that

55:43

you can actually separate your personal

55:45

loss and suffering from the pain

55:48

that your caregiver's experience. As

55:50

we heard from Melizza, folks,

55:52

things will get better, but we have to be

55:54

serious about these lessons. Our

55:57

health care system was not built to weather

55:59

this storm arm even if we're supposed

56:01

to be the shining city on the hill. To

56:04

continue shining, we need to continue

56:06

the progress towards health equity and

56:09

meet this moment wide eyed. We

56:11

need to improve resources to our local

56:13

health agencies, as we continue to say,

56:15

and we have to have a better plan for our frontline

56:18

heroes to cope with the decisions

56:20

and the trauma that they've endured and

56:22

will inevitably continue to endure

56:25

during this pandemic. At the

56:27

risk of sounding like a broken record, I

56:29

want to remind you of something. As

56:31

hard as it is to wear a mask to separate

56:34

from your friends and loved ones, and as much

56:36

as your life has been disrupted

56:38

from this pandemic, every decision

56:40

you make is life or death. I'm

56:43

not trying to sensationalize this. The

56:45

decisions that you make today, if they don't

56:47

affect your own family or you, they

56:49

affect someone like Melitza or Dr Boshbab,

56:53

So please consider their stories and

56:55

the impact of your decisions. Thank

56:57

you so much for joining us again. We'll

57:00

keep bringing truth no matter how hard

57:02

it is, and we'll see you soon. Listen

57:13

to Contact World of podcast on the I Heart

57:15

Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

57:23

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