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Hey it's are shoo man host of

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Commons and we have an incredible new

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show here at Canada Land for you

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to listen to. It's called Pretend Years

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and it's hosted by Robert J. Go

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an Angel, Alice. Each episode takes

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a look at stories of indigenous

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identity fraud. Now, these are jawdropping

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stories about the bold fraudsters who

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have achieved huge success in academia,

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politics, in the arts. But all

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of it was based on a

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lie. This. Show will frustrate you,

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shock you, make you laugh, make you

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cry, and most importantly challenge you to

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rethink everything that you thought you knew

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about identity politics. This show is like

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nothing else you've heard before. And

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we've got a sneak peek to share

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with you today, so please take a

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listen. Hello and welcome to pretend

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he owns. This is a show where we talk

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about people who impersonate us natives and explain why

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they're doing it and who it hurts. Has

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just don't go. Angel Elisha How just

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get us hello. I'm Angel Alice a

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writer and a citizen of the Muskogee

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Creek Nation located Oklahoma. Are

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we doing a. Yeah. You gotta get

1:03

all secret with it. Is

1:07

wild his he I ravaging at the squeak. My

1:09

name is Robert Jego and I'm a writer from

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the Qual and First nation and knock sack Indian

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tribe in the Pacific Northwest. So. The

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show is all about pretend to and pretend. The

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Indians it's a pretty new term and I know

1:20

that even a lot of native people don't know

1:22

what it's like. One of the social media think

1:24

that's kind of taken over and got into the

1:27

press. So many people pretend to be Indian. You.

1:30

Will not believe how many of these figures

1:32

are out there. We don't pretend the ins

1:34

and Hollywood. Pretend the ins and government. Even

1:36

pretending ends in prison in every episode

1:38

will tell you a wild story about

1:41

who they Hoechst and what they got

1:43

away with. Rubber off the top

1:45

your mind course. I'm the pretending and

1:47

that you can think of Dino Rachel.

1:50

Dollars or less? maybe? Rachel

1:52

Dollars all the Naacp chapter later

1:54

accused of lying about her raise

1:56

their I am Black, haven't had

1:58

a dna tests. She was

2:00

clearly a blonde lady, but she told everybody she

2:03

was black and she, you know, got a spray

2:05

tan and put her in cornrows and stuff. Oh,

2:07

I do remember this. Before

2:09

she did that, she was native. Really?

2:12

I mean, she was never native, but before she did that,

2:14

she tried out being a pretendian first. Oh

2:17

my God. Rachel used

2:19

to call herself Faith Eagle

2:21

Nebula. What about Elizabeth Warren? Yeah,

2:23

she's like the daughter of the Cherokee

2:26

princess or something like that. Pocahontas,

2:28

she of the great tribal

2:31

heritage. What tribe is it? Let me

2:33

think about that one. I am sorry

2:35

for harm I have caused. When

2:38

I was growing up, those were our

2:40

family's stories. Some other famous

2:43

ones recently. I mean, Buffy St. Marie. Oh,

2:45

it does, uh, where we fall.

2:49

Oh gosh, Buffy broke my heart a little bit. A

2:51

little bit, yeah. That hurt. I

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don't know how or when she started to create

2:56

her story, but she's just raised

2:58

in a Caucasian

3:01

family. I mean, that's

3:03

one that I never would have guessed. What

3:07

makes the mob crowd like go with

3:09

it? I don't understand. It's

3:11

kind of wild. I mean, how many

3:13

people are really listening to natives when we talk

3:15

about anything? Oh, that's true.

3:18

Pretendians as a story are really important right

3:20

now, where we're rebuilding our nations and making

3:22

serious strides as people. Because with

3:25

that rising, there's opportunity. And it seems

3:27

that like for every three opportunities, pretendians

3:29

take two of them. So

3:31

I'm definitely not a pretendian, but Robert, how

3:34

do I know you're not? You

3:36

can look at my credit score. Oh

3:39

shoot. I've

3:43

got the sacred laminated

3:46

card. I've got one

3:48

from Canada and one from the States,

3:50

because in Canada, I'm registered as a

3:52

Status Indian at the Kwantlen First Nation.

3:54

And in the States, I'm enrolled with

3:57

an Exact Indian tribe. That's me. What

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about you? How do you

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know that I'm Native? Well, I have

4:03

my sacred laminate card that enrolls me

4:06

as a citizen of the Muscogee Nation.

4:08

Just pull out the card, right? Registered?

4:10

Angel, at a minimum, and I mean

4:12

at a bare minimum, you would

4:14

hope that people would actually ask to see a

4:16

sacred laminate card before giving somebody a job or

4:19

another opportunity that's been set aside for a Native

4:21

person. These cards are important

4:23

when it comes to figuring out who is legit

4:25

and who is a pretendian. Not

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every truly Indigenous person has one, but

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these days, only truly Indigenous people can

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get one. So imagine the damage it

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would do if someone started printing up

4:36

fake Indian status cards. Today's

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episode is about a man who did something a lot

4:40

worse than merely pretending to be Indigenous. This

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guy isn't simply a fake Indian. According

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to many Mohawk leaders and others, he's

4:47

a fake Indian Chief. And

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in that role, he's created tens of

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thousands of pretendians by sending them fake Indian

4:53

status cards that look almost like the real

4:56

thing. Angel, we're not

4:58

going to just talk about this guy, I'm

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going to talk to him. But

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first, you need to know who he is. So

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allow me to tell you all about his Excellency,

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Grand Chief Guillaume Carl. Guillaume Carl.

5:09

His Majesty Guillaume Carl, whatever he

5:12

calls himself. Who refers to himself

5:14

as his Excellency. Guillaume Carl was

5:16

claiming to be Algonquin

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at one time, another time he was claiming to be a

5:20

Huron. Prove to us what

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your language, what your culture. I can

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tell him what mine is. The people that

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don't believe I'm Native, they can kiss my

5:29

Indian ass. From Canada Land,

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this is Pretendians. Guillaume

6:08

Carl was born around 1960. I

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found very little information out there about his

6:12

childhood or his upbringing. There doesn't seem to

6:14

be any native community that said anything about

6:17

knowing him or his family. We

6:19

did trace his family tree, though, back to

6:21

his great-grandparents. From what we can

6:23

find, his family are all French Canadians. His

6:26

great-grandparents were dairy farmers in a small town north

6:28

of Ottawa. One of his grandfathers seemed

6:30

to have been fairly wealthy and found at a hospital.

6:33

His other grandfather was a cop. We

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found a wedding photo in an old newspaper

6:37

that shows his parents Gaston and Pierrette. They're

6:40

a very handsome couple, very Caucasian. It

6:42

looks like Shirley Temple and Norm Macdonald.

6:44

Oh my gosh, it does look like

6:46

Shirley Temple and Norm Macdonald got together.

6:48

Once he reaches adulthood, Guillaume Carl joins

6:50

the military, where he serves as a

6:52

military police officer. He tries his luck

6:54

as a country music singer, he studies

6:56

computer science, and he models for a department

6:59

store. Here, Angel, take a look at him. Very

7:02

much wearing the leather

7:04

vest and the beaded necklace.

7:07

He's got the ponytail braid.

7:10

He also runs a number of technology companies. It

7:12

wasn't until he's in his 40s that he shows

7:14

up in any public record I can find, presenting

7:16

himself as a native person. And

7:19

when he goes for it, he really goes

7:21

for it. He runs for leadership of the Native

7:23

Alliance of Quebec, a group that represents native

7:25

people who do not live on reserves. I'm

7:28

pretty familiar with off-reservation natives. There were a

7:30

lot of programs in the US that

7:32

intentionally took natives off

7:35

the reserves. That's not pulling any alarm bells

7:37

for me. Keep in mind, this is a legitimate

7:39

group he's working for at this point. How

7:41

does he come from nowhere and win

7:44

the support of natives to become

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a leader in a native organization?

7:49

Well, he campaigns on the

7:51

strength of his education. He says he has a

7:53

PhD. He boasts of his

7:56

many university degrees and his business background.

7:58

And he wins. But

8:00

the degrees these degrees or from a school

8:02

called Ask For The University is one of

8:04

those online universities. He says that he did

8:07

a Ba and Am A and appeared steed

8:09

Computer Science. Over. A period of

8:11

three years. When. A reporter from

8:13

La Presse question Carl about them. He

8:15

said that he didn't need to attend

8:17

classes, but that he did publish a

8:19

thesis and unfortunately is no longer possible

8:21

to access it. Ah, Three.

8:24

Years later, he is engulfed in controversy.

8:26

He's under audit by his own organization

8:28

for mismanaging their money, is accused of

8:30

awarding contracts to his own company, And

8:33

not telling the whole truth about the university

8:35

degrees. According to press reports he gets driven

8:37

out of the Alliance in two thousand and

8:40

five. The guy who are places coral calcium

8:42

a wannabe who can prove his made of

8:44

now this is the first time record the

8:46

summers excuse young Carl of being an imposter

8:49

and a mopping the last. So

8:53

offers kicked out of a native land's

8:55

expect carla support a start their own

8:57

group and call it the Confederation of

8:59

Aboriginal People. This one is not recognized

9:01

by the government of Canada or any

9:03

First nation. This new group has no

9:05

a license. com supporters give him the

9:07

title his excellency grants sheath and a

9:10

stall him for life. Carl

9:12

says that is going to be sees us all

9:14

the non status Indians out there, all the indigenous

9:16

people who don't live on reserves and who don't

9:18

have any A status cards from the government of

9:21

Canada. His idea of

9:23

what it takes To me indigenous is

9:25

at all you need is the native

9:27

team. He says any amount of Dna

9:29

makes you a native space with precision

9:31

of honor percent or precision that we

9:33

ever lost or noted of. It's non

9:36

the made modern for as the Indian

9:38

Jean and Am Pt Indian team okay

9:40

already okay. He estimates that they're over

9:42

five hundred thousand indigenous people in Canada

9:44

for join his group of start paying

9:46

him fees he says plumbing, theatrical stats

9:49

he writes and horseback through downtown Ottawa

9:51

with five. In a protesters to the mass

9:53

of the Governor General. If you don't know

9:55

who that essential, that's the official representative of

9:57

the Queen. it's and when you get enough

10:00

with the Governor General Thompson or

10:02

the Queen directly or the Queen

10:04

directly what is your request? we

10:07

need our land back the

10:09

95% of Canada we're

10:11

not going to leave until we get it done

10:13

it doesn't happen but he does get an extraordinary

10:15

amount of media attention does he get

10:17

like good press? at first

10:19

yes but it's not all

10:21

positive and in light

10:23

of some negative stories he decides to

10:25

sue the media for an absurd $930

10:28

million for

10:31

allegedly defaming him and he

10:33

argues that he's being persecuted in the same

10:35

way that Martin Luther King Jr, Nelson Mandela

10:37

and the Jewish victims of the Holocaust were

10:40

persecuted the judge throws out the

10:42

case it doesn't stop with that

10:44

though he starts his own brand new First

10:46

Nation he calls it the Micanac tribe and

10:48

says anyone with even 1% native DNA can

10:50

be a member now

10:54

this group is totally unrecognized and members don't

10:56

get any of the rights or benefits the

10:58

status Indians are entitled to such as hunting

11:00

and fishing rights or different tax benefits to

11:03

get that stuff you need to be from

11:06

a real recognized First Nation and have an

11:08

actual legitimate government issued status card and

11:10

most of his members can't get those so

11:12

he starts issuing his own status cards fake

11:15

status cards according to CBC News here's

11:17

what an actual government issued status card

11:19

looks like those with status can be

11:21

entitled to a range of benefits including

11:24

tax exemptions now this is

11:26

the card being passed off to

11:28

unsuspecting shopkeepers that's a fake card these

11:30

are all fake cards they're pretty well done the

11:32

CBC does this incredible undercover investigation here's how

11:34

that goes their reporter, a very white lady,

11:37

goes to Chief Carl's group posing as someone

11:39

who wants to join it she's charged $250

11:41

for a DNA test that's

11:45

administered by Carl's own vice chief to

11:47

get into the tribe you have to pay

11:49

and you have to do a DNA test

11:52

you don't have to like prove matrilineal

11:54

descent from that tribe or anything

11:56

like that that is the shape

11:59

of it yes and About that DNA test.

12:02

Okay, first, all of this is caught on hidden

12:04

camera, and the vice

12:06

chief tells the reporter not to worry. Everybody

12:08

gets into the group. Everybody's

12:10

test comes back positive for native

12:12

DNA. Do you ever have people take

12:15

the DNA test and they just come back

12:17

non-native? I never saw it so far. Once

12:19

that happens, you pay $80 more for your card.

12:22

And according to Karl, over 50,000 people

12:24

have done this. It's absolutely insane.

12:26

A disgruntled former member of Karl's

12:28

group sees that something's wrong with

12:30

the test. And so

12:32

he decides to swab his chihuahua.

12:34

He sends in his chihuahua's DNA

12:36

to the same company that Guillaume

12:38

Karl used for the membership of

12:40

the Confederation, and guess what? Is

12:42

his dog a res dog? His dog is 20%

12:45

res dog. It

12:47

comes back 20% indigenous. 8%

12:50

Abenaki and 12% Mohawk. More

12:54

media investigations are done into Karl and

12:56

his organization. This time into an investment

12:58

scheme, the police investigate and

13:01

fraud charges are laid against his excellency,

13:03

Grand Chief Guillaume Karl. And

13:05

then it gets even worse for him. In

13:07

2019, Guillaume Karl is charged with three sex

13:09

crimes. Oh. For

13:11

an incident that took place decades earlier with

13:13

a 12-year-old boy. And he's

13:16

convicted. And that's it.

13:18

That's where the record ends. There are

13:20

no news stories about what became of the fraud

13:22

charges against him, and no racket of him going

13:24

to jail or being sentenced for sex crimes. Nobody

13:27

seems to have spoken to him in a few years, which,

13:30

Angel, is why I

13:32

was so surprised when he actually responded to

13:34

my email and said he'd give me an

13:36

interview. Oh my God. Like, I

13:38

am just so curious. Like, what are

13:40

you going to ask him about? Where

13:42

do you start? Well, what would you

13:44

ask him about? The first thing I really

13:47

need to know is how is the guy walking around?

13:49

It's financial fraud,

13:51

identity fraud, and sexual

13:54

misconduct with a minor. That's

13:56

insane. I think that's where I want to end up. But

13:59

first, I want to fill... the gaps about his

14:01

background. Angel, this is an

14:03

incredibly tough person to interview. There

14:05

are so many court cases. I've been buried

14:07

reading about this guy forever, and I can't

14:09

get to the bottom of anything with him.

14:11

But I don't know where he's from. I

14:14

don't know what his childhood was.

14:16

I don't know when he decided to

14:18

become an Indian. It's been years since

14:20

he sat down for a proper interview,

14:22

and that happened before all of this

14:24

stuff with the sexual charges and the

14:26

fraud. I want to use this

14:29

time to have him stand here after

14:32

everything seems to have fallen apart and explain

14:35

to me how he got himself in this

14:37

position. He's obviously someone who

14:39

can manipulate press, but maybe

14:41

he'll want to explain his

14:44

story now that it's all kind of unraveled. Maybe he's

14:46

ready to go on record and spill it all. That

14:51

was a sneak peek of

14:53

pretendians. Robert and Angel have

14:55

an unbelievable season in store

14:57

with wild stories about prisons,

14:59

about Hollywood, about pretendian hunters,

15:01

about the sitting governor of

15:03

Oklahoma, and so much more.

15:06

To hear the rest of this

15:08

and all upcoming episodes, just search

15:10

for pretendians in your podcast app.