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i'm be a

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i would have to you today about his show

0:35

that i'm absolutely obsessed with

0:41

have you ever watched that

0:43

you know parker is been

0:46

on my list for a long time but actually have

0:48

not gonna disappear

0:49

the cause you to see if that's his you've got

0:52

to

0:52

the you obviously have feelings i went i want to hear

0:54

all of it is late all on

0:55

some us and it's me

0:58

and saw c n n

1:00

suspected it contains multitude

1:02

okay so basically p valley

1:04

is this a dreamy southern gothic

1:06

black woman is so by the show that

1:09

okay had focuses on

1:11

the lives of strippers and the successes

1:14

town called said the lisa mississippi the

1:17

, work at a club cause the

1:19

park that's p y nk

1:22

battle without

1:25

sugar

1:27

and usually the way

1:29

the stripper leopard trade on tv is

1:31

this

1:31

one dimensional

1:33

world weary single mom

1:36

or the stripper with the how to go

1:37

exactly but like that's not p

1:39

valley and fact you can tell

1:42

from the first bars of the opening

1:44

theme song that this that this

1:46

this represents how

1:48

big my mom has

1:52

right

1:55

as a said so isn't

1:57

just steamy you've

1:59

got these main characters

2:01

there's see always glamour

2:04

uncle clifford who is the owner

2:06

of the day will have a forty five point one

2:08

as well leave your baby data

2:10

drama at home if there's more

2:12

brady who is he headstrong

2:14

veteran stripper who keeps trying

2:16

to retire but she ten

2:18

this was you guys you without the people in

2:20

a bag in exit

2:22

i mean i'm just face mask

2:24

mail say brings out boys to the yard

2:26

and will would all have been doing and then this keyshawn

2:29

who is this a dreamer struggling to become

2:31

a star and dealing with her abusive

2:33

husband

2:37

or how and screaming

2:39

about we're in a mass of you

2:41

got another from places for

2:43

the second season of the show which is wrapping

2:45

up the smiths falls them all

2:47

as they try to save the pink from be

2:49

thought

2:51

so i've been a lot of discourse around

2:54

to see valley but i have offices in the

2:56

so so the lottery between about

2:58

you know the way betrays black women as

3:00

sex work or seeing people argue about whether

3:02

the accents are accurate records that

3:04

mississippi i've seen people to know how beautifully

3:07

shot it is and ought to be why

3:09

know in real life who with iraq with the so

3:12

i'm are so the black woman

3:14

i guess you are kind of onerous love

3:17

less sophisticated it's everybody

3:19

loves myth of the we love less

3:21

mississippi okay fair enough okay

3:24

the valley first premiered in

3:27

the summer twenty twenty and as games

3:29

such a strong fallen since the

3:31

first episode of the second season had more

3:33

than four point five million viewers across

3:35

platforms poof here so

3:37

i wanted to talk to the mastermind

3:40

behind this hit show the story

3:42

have a badly genius

3:45

the toy how is the creator of the valley

3:47

which is impressive enough on his own the

3:49

season award winning playwright

3:51

she won the pulitzer prize for drama

3:53

for her twenty her twenty play the hot wings

3:56

okay

3:57

the valley started out as a play as well

4:00

and it was inspired by her childhood

4:02

growing up in memphis tennessee

4:03

the and i actually

4:06

grew up like a lot of folks i will say are

4:09

going to strip clubs started probably

4:11

too young or by

4:14

that would you go into a blurb

4:16

of you would see says this

4:18

amazing spectacle i think

4:21

the and for club the city police there

4:23

tends to be more of a so i'm

4:25

it's it's not just about stripping and taking

4:28

off your clothes that about your top it's really

4:30

about these

4:31

let it set

4:33

that you get to see and and throw money at the

4:35

women right and sell it was just

4:37

part of my upbringing

4:39

in terms of yeah you know southern culture

4:42

and seeing that and kind of being a participatory

4:44

observer of the culture

4:46

i'm so that's for

4:49

ah moved up to new york city

4:51

now this attending school

4:53

letting my young adult fabulous new york city

4:55

lives am i actually started taking

4:58

pole dancing classes a christian

5:00

are member

5:01

and in that moment i realized

5:03

how how they go out is that

5:05

there are most grew up actually my

5:07

first day it easy buckets

5:10

of applause that beating around

5:12

that around that around as it as it

5:14

i i'll be right back

5:16

the right back and i'll i'd have rather the bathrooms

5:18

so in that moment alito

5:20

it kind of crystallize for me how hard

5:23

what these women do is

5:25

an arm

5:27

i figured

5:29

out you know of probably

5:32

make a a a story

5:35

out of the as i was either get inspired by

5:37

on the premise super see road i'm

5:40

of the women that i had grown up

5:42

seeing on the ball and then trying to do

5:44

it myself so i

5:46

embarked on this the each year long journey

5:49

from their point of doing research

5:52

arm i sat across from

5:54

over forty women's over

5:56

the time i went to over forty strip clubs

5:58

respect

5:59

yeah i'd i'd be dead journalism

6:02

saying like really really get

6:04

a disused he dies yo

6:07

i've ever been on this and now that

6:09

they're considered they're as it of with

6:12

upon this day that sit of you know it

6:14

because it had done the done the but

6:16

as soon as just go ahead and will outweigh

6:19

on but a time athena us that's

6:21

the thing it takes a lot of bravery i think

6:23

to do then bad as when his brain the

6:26

play came out of that all about and

6:30

i learned very quickly and twenty fifteen

6:32

which is when the play pussy valley was produced

6:35

that it should have been a tv

6:37

show because there was yes

6:39

all much going on and like

6:41

so many interesting characters

6:43

in the dynamics's bay it

6:46

for a deeper exploration deck go

6:48

on for multiple seasons

6:50

and so i decided

6:53

to go out to l a and pitches and

6:55

i remember like everybody

6:58

was like cutting their purchases

7:00

if is edo at my pets

7:04

like we're know this is titillating

7:07

this is interesting

7:07

this is like no way in hell they

7:09

were gonna do a show about strip

7:11

club zero black women down south

7:14

minister been and is that there's

7:17

it was like was cultural landmine there

7:19

is history of the hyper

7:21

specialization a black women and sell i just

7:23

think that people are like barry has then

7:25

to take that i'm i'm but

7:28

when sat down stars

7:31

and i explained to them that this was

7:33

not you know this glamorize

7:36

a sin of strip club called three was

7:38

actually a humanization project that

7:40

i was embarking on they really

7:42

really understood where

7:44

i'm coming from and they gave me that

7:46

sat there with the only place

7:49

that said yes but

7:51

as my mom

7:52

wait say it all you need

7:54

is one yes there are and you just

7:56

gone through them

7:57

well

7:59

there were gel yes as though

8:02

this is my yes i

8:06

guess that's and lesbian and bumper

8:08

sticker what are you gonna do with the a yet move

8:10

yet move move

8:12

me the so just like every

8:14

episode feels like a quiet

8:16

revolution who are love that i

8:18

love that they come out a lot

8:20

of as to the shows

8:22

black female agency and it's

8:24

queries and see where you know strippers

8:27

are in control of their bodies which is

8:29

such own historical

8:33

contrast the house to present mayor families

8:35

are typically portrayed in the media

8:38

means the biggest episode the season

8:41

that would also talked about a lot as li the story

8:44

of

8:45

the strippers mercedes helping fourteen

8:47

year old daughter grapple with the decision of whether

8:49

that to get an abortion in the scene

8:51

where betty here receive these and her daughter

8:54

erica are talking about the fact that mercedes

8:56

actually got pregnant with character as a teenager

8:59

and it question at the time whether or not

9:01

to get an abortion herself

9:03

you do put an official like

9:06

i say never consider

9:08

the however the hook

9:11

the tree thank you need no choice

9:15

made me are you

9:18

you know what

9:22

i'm thankful maybe

9:25

to

9:27

some guy uses them

9:30

with your plus

9:32

however one was the you have

9:34

choices tech

9:39

it's a very emotional very complex seen

9:42

i'm wondering why that issue the issue of abortion

9:45

is something you wanted

9:47

hagel and michelle

9:49

i think it's because it is so

9:51

islam

9:51

the good guess the black female experience

9:54

and i just think it's so important to

9:57

be honest about every

10:00

the were going stir you know it's not

10:02

a lot of us who live at the intersection

10:04

of race class and gender and

10:06

for have that intersection or identity

10:09

it's it's a a

10:11

we just don't see the complexity

10:14

of that often on in

10:16

media and so he he

10:19

always said we're trying to put vitamins

10:22

put vitamins koolaid like we wanna talk about

10:24

real stuff that

10:26

everyone is going through through this varies

10:28

they pick land so that it can feel

10:31

and be universal i

10:33

mean i love wins we drop

10:35

an episode and you see the comments

10:37

on twitter or on facebook

10:39

or instagram and people are

10:41

can arise and gop and saying oh my god

10:45

that me mercedes

10:47

is me characters mean

10:49

big seekers mean we're

10:51

dealing with issues that he now

10:53

lot of people only want to talk about in their own families

10:56

like is not on the abortion we're talking about

10:59

mental health we're talking about suicide

11:02

and you know from the outside igloo oh

11:04

my god that's god that's to take off the

11:06

upper a t v so but

11:09

as when you like i say you're

11:11

writing about characters that have like a

11:13

moped like this you know they have

11:16

multiple identities that they're dealing with

11:19

in easy access it

11:21

does make sense that what

11:23

they're going through word

11:26

resonate with resonate many

11:28

different types of people so

11:30

we so we on i'm alive

11:33

and feel as though as a black rider

11:36

as a black female writers it's kind of my

11:38

responsibility right i had this

11:40

platform millions

11:42

of people are watching this show

11:45

though i think best one of the main reasons

11:47

as to why we do we

11:49

tell the stories that we do we tell they can

11:51

a deep and dark stories that we do

11:54

on which you know some people

11:56

have been a little i was saying

11:58

there are above

11:59

they the made me feel very uncomfortable but

12:03

you know it's somehow the hard to look in the mirror

12:05

sometimes really hard to look at

12:07

your reflection especially when you don't like what you

12:09

see i'm by best

12:12

the power i think in india

12:14

particular medium a t

12:16

v where we are going

12:18

to if

12:21

be honest be true we use

12:23

as i say fiction in order to tell the

12:25

truth

12:26

you say

12:28

the great thing about put in the vitamin

12:30

c and the koolaid like how are you

12:32

write about these very

12:35

complex and

12:37

maybe contentious topics without

12:39

having the stamp of issue show

12:41

or without being preachy i think it has

12:43

a lot to deal with us at the it's all very

12:46

character base a kid com off

12:48

very easily i think in the wrong hands

12:50

as like you said very pretty

12:53

heavy indeed like

12:55

, political but

12:57

for as be cause we created

12:59

these characters this feels so

13:01

real ends with create a characters

13:04

that people buy really want to hang out with like

13:06

air by the name mama wanna aka clifford

13:08

in a life of us everybody

13:10

was a roulette as they frame rates

13:14

are hosted by parker

13:16

when these issues and these stories

13:19

through these characters that

13:21

you notice feel like your home girl

13:24

your home boy your know uses

13:26

the i think in a week the way you're

13:29

able to take un ah

13:31

the vitamins a little bit more

13:32

yeah and i mean to

13:35

the characters and storylines that i found particularly

13:37

interests in is a relationship

13:39

between uncle clifford and law murder

13:42

isn't and i wonder if you could tell us about

13:44

those characters

13:45

though apple clifford is the

13:47

owner

13:48

the paint i'm

13:50

, ads are wrestling

13:53

with try the edo keep the pink

13:55

eat out pink her hands and her keeps the

13:57

thing you know physically healthy

13:59

c

14:00

non binary but she goes by

14:02

as as as see and has used to see in her

14:04

pronouns arm and

14:06

even in season one you

14:08

know she began to cultivate this

14:12

in the closet relationship

14:14

with this up and

14:16

coming trapper rapper named low murder

14:18

and initially it felt

14:21

like it justice i know less he

14:23

sexual connection but over

14:25

time it has grown to

14:27

be something deeper i

14:30

think the murder and dad he is

14:32

he now so masculine

14:34

so sexy height have august wagon

14:36

has not been cookies

14:38

honest with himself about himself think his

14:40

identity but identity think that he's

14:43

well aware that air

14:45

you know as a rapper as a rapper who does

14:47

he though gave the raf if he came

14:49

out at he knows that he wouldn't be

14:51

i would say is emblazoned and

14:54

sell last season ah

14:57

the murder you know in an attempt to

14:59

kind of flexor all in front

15:01

of this music executive

15:04

as he basically dismisses uncle

15:06

clifford which you know arm hurts

15:08

her to her cool and kind of brings

15:10

into sharp relief this thing of can

15:13

you know the to he you know human beings

15:15

wind who has a more feminine

15:18

gender performance and as other one

15:20

who has more mask lend agenda performance

15:22

can these two kinds of

15:24

live loudly in the light

15:26

in a relationship and so there has

15:28

been one of the major struggles

15:31

arm over the course of these past two seasons

15:34

for these two particular characters what

15:36

have found so interesting and i joke about

15:38

this out all the time i'm like still i

15:40

to create eat out at

15:42

supercell so that i could

15:44

hopefully right one of the best story

15:47

the treatment sue black queer people of

15:49

all time

15:51

that is so interesting that people

15:53

are style invested in

15:55

this relationship the the

15:57

will they are won't pay me

15:59

the a poem is everyone

16:02

even people who are located

16:04

the or hiking homophobic that

16:06

they still lotus notes whether

16:09

he the kinda roni he actually

16:11

as a lover at

16:12

offer a fighter

16:17

the she needed me man need

16:20

it is

16:24

the greek

16:26

we're talking about some other lovers

16:28

insiders a folks on social

16:30

media who cannot stop arguing over

16:33

t valley we have a not

16:35

now how much

16:37

as there would be an uproar to the point

16:40

where there was a cancel p valley has

16:42

that they with zero

16:53

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on the podcast rough translation my

17:57

mom to catch him crazy as crazy

17:59

brings the war home to

18:02

, small town in new york is hanging on

18:04

every update what was gonna happen to

18:06

the cat and local news there

18:08

would never look the same that's same rough translation

18:11

from and field

18:14

parker gene code six

18:17

the people he he may have seen this but

18:19

earlier this year there was a p sally social

18:22

media uproar her me feel

18:24

a some type away basically

18:26

, was an episode of the show that feature to

18:28

scenes of people had very different

18:31

reactions to when was

18:33

when scene between two black women and

18:35

the other was between two black men and

18:37

when i saw the discussions happening on twitter after

18:39

the episode came out the seem to be such

18:41

a difference and react

18:43

in between those

18:45

who see

18:46

now lot of the people i saw

18:48

hawking for totally

18:50

fine with the scene between the two women

18:53

that seemed utterly freaked out by the

18:55

scene between the men

18:57

so i asked the tory would she made at that

18:59

moment and how she decided

19:01

whether or not to respond

19:04

that moment in particular i

19:06

must say i was really surprised

19:08

i mean by design we wanted to

19:11

have those two sex scenes

19:13

in the same episode

19:14

right we added

19:17

where people will be a little bit like oh

19:19

up a week of did not know

19:22

how much are

19:24

there will be in a poor to the point where

19:26

there was a cancel p valley has that

19:29

that was created really air

19:31

oh yes and so

19:34

i actually got

19:36

sick with coded that week so

19:39

why is this guy god try

19:42

to help me or hurt me both had

19:44

either but successfully

19:46

did not respond to that particular

19:49

hubbub arm , mine

19:51

amazing kelly p patrick

19:53

in polk queer eye consecrated

19:56

noah's ark he knows he

19:58

stepped into the phrase

20:01

for me i and he has

20:03

had a history of you know they're

20:05

being so much i'm

20:08

homophobia and that's

20:10

been thrown at his work answers

20:12

to see you know when a we thought

20:14

with a very kind of beautiful sexy

20:17

be and you

20:19

now seen as or

20:21

how to the as some kind of a masculine

20:23

projects you know for black man

20:26

and he was is very very frustrated by

20:28

that and and so you

20:31

know i'm he basically like

20:33

it out the gag go under

20:34

or

20:35

that may not be for you life

20:37

if it ends and it's true like i said before

20:40

the game as queerness

20:42

is so important to

20:45

all of my work because

20:47

i want to show all

20:50

black people in my work i'm not

20:52

just focus on one type

20:54

of the her arm and

20:56

so you know i'm or

20:58

this the police were going the

21:01

robot week ah a

21:03

and you know like i said that that the

21:05

council p valley has that was was

21:07

papa for a minute south of they

21:09

were just up in arms as i think

21:12

it has a lot to do with this we

21:15

are so comfortable with

21:17

a with especially when it comes to the

21:19

black male body you know

21:21

for that queerness to

21:24

look and feel fast

21:26

and seminar but

21:28

when it comes to a more masculine

21:30

and their as they even more masculine

21:33

a visual articulation of

21:36

the black male identity it feels

21:38

like a threat is it

21:41

but these etti feelings of oh

21:44

i their mean on the down low

21:46

try and said you know do black women's

21:49

when all actuality is just

21:52

that they are some men

21:54

course , gender loving man

21:57

who i'm probably uncommon

21:59

the law will

22:02

being honest with other people

22:04

as to who they love or who they like

22:06

because of the now be react

22:08

that we got because of the homophobia

22:11

and so they're not as express

22:13

of like i get isn't this madness my do you

22:15

know i'm a that

22:17

is why i think we

22:20

all

22:20

in a weird way

22:21

prove there at the point of the entire

22:24

story this is the reason why

22:26

big t kill a murder aren't like you know walking

22:28

down a street holding hands even though they may

22:30

want to is because they know

22:32

that the world is not

22:35

interested in that particular articulation

22:37

of black gay male identity

22:40

i'm , you know

22:42

it's that particular episode

22:44

that seems to civically

22:46

really really good out

22:48

blue people's mind nine than

22:50

disgusted some people always say com

22:53

like a rorschach test because your

22:55

reaction to the same kind of them

22:57

more value than anything yet and

23:01

you know it'll continue over

23:04

the course of the season and has continued over

23:06

the course of the seasons but

23:08

what i have sounds interesting as the

23:10

same people who are like are like be valid

23:12

allow i got lads eg i'll add this

23:15

they be watch

23:15

read it they watched every episode

23:19

no less than six

23:21

what a great tv show their

23:23

that i it makes you uncomfortable and you like oh

23:25

my god a medical what's the so would

23:27

get no official officials and

23:29

and all the fence and are you at the season

23:31

finale thinking that you have on the gonna

23:33

watch you know you wanna watch another episode

23:35

but you've been into watching the t in the whole

23:37

team

23:38

your exploration of of

23:40

black queerness in the south specifically is

23:43

a topic that you also

23:45

dies into dies into play the hot wings

23:47

and know it's also feature the accident

23:49

ego and know who

23:51

plays uncle clifford of he that yeah

23:53

yes ah

23:55

why why is that a theme that

23:57

feels important to keep coming back to do you feel

23:59

yeah i

24:02

think that's a great question i've been thinking about this

24:04

a lot too because like could raise your

24:06

not a gay black man like a wider you keep us

24:11

busy the

24:12

door

24:13

there are not necessarily

24:15

your experience and real talk

24:17

honestly that's what i'm our damn good

24:20

writer does

24:21

how big it is ,

24:24

that week right outside of our

24:26

experience i think

24:28

it is

24:29

you

24:31

i think it is what

24:33

makes you the dope artists

24:36

the fact that i can put

24:39

myself in

24:41

the shoes of another person in

24:43

through my imagination you

24:45

know walk their walk i'm

24:47

i also you know

24:50

i do continue to do a lot of research

24:52

i know that i'd i don't know everything

24:54

about oh what

24:56

he feels like what it is lived to be

24:59

on black and clear in the south and so

25:01

i ask questions i

25:04

do a hell of a lot of research whether it's

25:06

you know doing interviews

25:08

with people which is deathly i did with

25:10

the hotly hotlinking i

25:13

sat down my brother and his partner

25:16

out the and as a who the place

25:18

based on i'm and i

25:20

i really wanted to hear

25:23

how it was it was two black

25:26

men who

25:28

in broke through

25:31

and decided that they were

25:32

going to be together i'd like to

25:34

just so that people now by the hotlinking

25:37

as about the kids to like

25:39

a man in memphis tennessee and

25:41

one of them has recently just kind of come out the closet

25:44

is in the midst the board has signed

25:46

by has led the that live like

25:48

a header a like a has decided that

25:50

he's going to be treated himself and

25:53

over the weekend other as

25:55

, perfect prepare for a hot when contest

25:58

they kind of really you

26:01

know i can ,

26:03

down in terms of their relationship

26:05

and and how they're gonna move forward on

26:08

sit together as a couple and

26:10

so the fact that my brother his partner

26:12

have lived that lies on

26:15

and i once a colleague

26:17

dedicate this show so

26:20

they're love and said their resilience

26:22

and so ah yes

26:24

it is required live imagination

26:26

required live part but i always always

26:30

they can the truth especially when

26:32

it's not exactly my own

26:34

life experience the how do you feel

26:36

when people get called out for writing about

26:39

communities added in their

26:41

own oil or for doing badly

26:43

you know for me

26:45

run into some i would say

26:49

three key

26:50

interpretations of

26:52

of of their communities you

26:54

know from people who are outside of that community

26:57

ah left when left white person is writing about

26:59

ah that is about

27:01

community in any way am

27:03

i think what

27:05

n b you're saving grace and what has

27:07

been my saving grace is that i have surrounded

27:09

myself with people who are

27:12

from that communities in terms of the writers'

27:14

room and the fact that

27:16

when i come to the table i

27:19

com with questions more so than answers

27:21

provide know that's not my lived experience

27:24

yeah

27:26

the you like who is in the writers'

27:28

room like what kind of perspective as the you rely

27:30

on to help tell the stories that

27:32

very of of these very different characters

27:36

in a way that feels meaningful

27:38

or to satisfy him like

27:40

there's the the dreaded words like authentic

27:43

but like who work at yeah a lot it

27:45

yeah i think that's such a great question

27:47

we are alice say

27:50

it's it's more than has made of

27:52

women are more than

27:54

half clear people who identify

27:56

as being queer are we always

27:58

have a dancer or two at

28:01

the table now for the past two

28:03

seasons absolutely ah

28:05

with happy

28:06

the who have participate in

28:08

different lanes of

28:09

work not chester thing i also

28:11

just want people who have different approaches

28:14

to stories in our i must say

28:16

i'm very character centric and so

28:18

i tried to bring

28:20

into the fall people who is more about plot

28:22

or people who think more about theme

28:25

more people who

28:25

would think and symbols you know

28:28

if sets of really

28:30

you know of diverse

28:33

beautiful , ground dead

28:36

at on s brutally honest room

28:38

and i'm very very blessed that i'll

28:41

have been able to find it as it

28:43

call them my heroes yeah

28:50

you think p valley is a fairytale

28:53

i guess some magical realism throughout the

28:55

season whether it's she'll talk in the

28:57

uncommon

28:59

when episode i think someone says like a fairytale

29:01

the horror story with a happy ending

29:04

now is not a fairytale at

29:06

all and it

29:09

he it

29:11

so grounded

29:13

in reality

29:16

, say no fairytale this

29:18

the real world world in the real

29:20

world all us got the power to rewrite our

29:22

own destinies handsome

29:24

prince is can become fire breathing dragon

29:27

trusty sidekick can be coming to the day

29:37

hurry tell but

29:40

as in lies ah i'm

29:43

just like it a tv show but as you get to do it over

29:45

and over again eat out there some days i feel

29:47

better than than other

29:48

for our character me on

29:51

yeah you know is i don't think

29:53

that p valley will ever

29:56

participate in i'm

29:58

a kind of hi

30:01

need

30:02

happy ending for

30:05

any advice characters

30:07

on m is interesting because i know that

30:09

a lot of our audience members they they

30:12

they meet their arm but

30:14

i just think back to speak

30:16

honestly about

30:19

what is happening today

30:21

as the with where this show is

30:24

set we just have to be cut

30:26

away more honest and real but i

30:28

do think that some people can

30:30

get their fairy tales i think the characters

30:32

that gifts that on have

30:35

to grind for for

30:37

that fairytale i do think that the

30:39

i'm despite all the darkness there

30:41

is light in check lisa but

30:44

is my everyday

30:51

once again that was the toy

30:53

have she the creator of the show p

30:55

valley which is just wrapping up his second

30:57

season

30:58

the own size by parker i'm

31:00

convinced them movies up much humor to

31:02

watch too much i wasn't so this week

31:05

when you're suggesting after this conversation

31:07

because you know to send a need for one one season

31:09

three with me i , to go

31:12

to to

31:14

this oh so we

31:17

want to hear from you email

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31:37

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31:41

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31:46

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31:48

i'm jeans every

31:49

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31:57

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31:59

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