0:00

The Sage Steel Show launches Wednesday.

0:02

Go to the Sage Steel Show

0:04

on YouTube and click subscribe. That

0:08

kind of attitude is just

0:10

so obnoxious. I know, if you get me

0:12

started, my pelvis will run in here in a minute and like,

0:14

she's gotta go. Club Randall.

0:17

Let me just put it to you like this. There is

0:19

a book in here, but some people

0:22

are gonna have to die first, so. Club

0:24

Randall. So

0:27

nice. I didn't expect to see you. For

0:29

you. It's not

0:31

a suit. I know, but you know. But

0:33

I did that for you. I'm very

0:35

impressed. I wore my rock tee for you.

0:37

Also, full disclosure, because it's kind of cold

0:39

in here. So I'm like, oh,

0:41

I can know. But no, are you kidding? You

0:43

know, the coolest booking we ever had, don't ever

0:45

say that to the other guests. Although you know

0:47

what? Every other guest I've ever had,

0:49

we've had some of the coolest people ever here. They

0:51

would still agree with that. No one would say,

0:53

no, that's not the coolest booking.

0:56

Really? I don't know. Well, I'm such a

0:58

fan. I'm excited to hear

1:00

that you are getting ready to

1:02

have Kid Rock at the Ryman.

1:05

You see that, I compare

1:08

my dog to Kid Rock because he

1:10

barks at nothing. So

1:12

my friend, my genius friend. That

1:14

is hilarious. Made that,

1:17

my dog has one eye. That is my dog with

1:19

the kid in that box. You're too much your dog.

1:21

Are these their beds over here? No,

1:24

that's because this is a hippie on

1:26

place. Do you remember this

1:28

job, politically incorrect? Oh yeah, of

1:30

course. Yeah, so like, I

1:33

was thinking, because I watched your

1:35

documentary. You didn't want to kill yourself

1:37

afterwards. Why? No, it brought

1:39

me to tears, the ending. I

1:41

thought when it was like 20 minutes to

1:44

the end, like then we'd meet

1:46

your kids. I'm not a kid person, so I was

1:48

like, oh. You're like, wa,

1:50

wa, not that kid. Not

1:53

that kid. But it was okay, you did

1:55

it well. And then moved on,

1:57

and the ending at, was it Benaro?

2:00

Bonanerou? Bonerou. Bonerou. I

2:02

mean, what a great ending for a documentary,

2:04

which is I did one. You know, you're

2:06

always looking for an ending. And

2:09

that, you know, you think

2:11

you get out there, nobody

2:13

there a half hour before the show. Literally.

2:16

And you're like, oh, I'm a legacy act now, you know, and

2:18

the kids are over me. And then it's

2:20

this in a half hour, the sea of people.

2:22

And you were looking at your

2:24

band like, can you guys believe? I

2:27

know, literally. It's like they let us out of the old folks

2:29

home and look, they've let all the kids come out to the

2:31

parking lot. Yeah. But, you

2:34

know, you I can't believe you ever thought you were

2:36

ever out of style. It's

2:38

weird. I mean, you know, you've been around for

2:40

a long time. I don't know if you feel this way. But now

2:42

listen, I and I've said this

2:44

a thousand times, my 13 year

2:46

old when he was nine, he's like, Mom,

2:48

you know, you're born in the 1870s. You

2:50

do get to the point where you feel like,

2:53

God, I'm aging out of this business. You know,

2:55

well, you said, I did wear my leather pants. Specifically

2:59

for Club Random. You look great.

3:02

You look you always did. You

3:04

know, you're a rock chick. So, you

3:08

know, I mean, you were you

3:10

were born to be one. Oh, my God. Thank

3:12

you. Really? Don't you think? I mean,

3:14

not just the great music,

3:16

but also you had the look and

3:19

you also had the what it takes to like,

3:21

you know, I'm sure I saw

3:24

in the documentary the the harassment,

3:26

which is not surprised. Like I've had girlfriends

3:28

in this business. One of them said to

3:30

me and she's she's quite she's quite successful.

3:33

She said, I've never met I've never met a

3:35

man in this industry who didn't try to have

3:37

sex with me. Well,

3:39

yeah, that. Yeah. Yeah.

3:43

Yeah. I mean, it's names

3:45

or do you know, but doesn't that just sum it

3:47

up? It is. It is. It's

3:51

a given. I mean, it's a

3:54

weird business. You know, I was

3:56

not I will say. And I

3:58

was older when I made it. Like,

4:01

really made it. I had already been a

4:03

school teacher. I had lots of jobs. Had

4:06

I been young like they are now,

4:08

there's no way. If what? If

4:11

I'd been young like these kids

4:13

are now that are coming up

4:15

and becoming huge, like

4:18

Olivia Rodrigo who's like 20 or 19 and Taylor who

4:20

made it. And Billie Eilish. Lord.

4:22

Billie, I just think there's no way. I would

4:24

not be able to deal with that. Well,

4:27

and you see that they sometimes fumble

4:29

the word through it. I mean, they actually

4:31

do better than you might expect, except that

4:33

those kids that generation, they're so

4:35

used to, I mean, everyone is sort of famous now.

4:37

They're so used to, you know,

4:39

I mean, if anybody was ever prescient, it

4:41

was Andy Warhol with everyone's going to be

4:43

famous for 15 minutes. Yeah. So

4:46

I don't think it's that big dive and

4:48

splash into the pool that it would be

4:51

for people in our generation because they kind

4:53

of like, we're always like social

4:55

media and it just got bigger.

4:58

Yeah. Yeah. And also you, you

5:00

as the artist, manipulate it like you, you create

5:04

your brand, you advertise

5:06

yourself, you sell yourself and then the music

5:08

is just a byproduct of that and you're

5:10

selling yourself so that you can tell

5:12

tickets and get advertised. And just that

5:15

was not, that was never part of the

5:19

way I came up. You know, there just

5:21

was none of that. In fact, until Bob

5:23

Dylan did the Victoria's Secret ad, nobody

5:25

did advertisements or took money for anything

5:27

except for playing music and telling records.

5:31

So it's a different thing. But

5:33

the main difference is that you can't

5:35

make money. You cannot make money. I

5:37

mean, how insane is that? It makes

5:40

me sad. A very serious

5:42

relationship with someone who I say was quite

5:44

successful. But the money, I

5:49

remember I had, I think it was kind of at the

5:51

behest of her at the time, I did

5:53

someone at the top interview

5:55

of my show to, you

5:58

know, just get this aloe black. The

6:01

artist. And talking

6:03

about just this issue of like,

6:06

who is it, Pharrell, I think? One year

6:09

had like the biggest song of the year and he

6:11

made like $12,000. I mean Spotify, they

6:15

pay what, a millionth of a cent for it? I mean,

6:18

it's just no connection to like, oh,

6:23

I go to the record shop and

6:25

I got to choose. I remember

6:27

once I was standing in Tower Records and I was looking

6:30

at like, I don't know, but some

6:32

stranger who don't usually talk to me,

6:34

just said, get

6:36

to Dylan. I was looking at like two

6:38

albums and one was like the big, this is like

6:40

1985. I miss that. I

6:42

miss, we went to the bookstore this morning

6:45

or this afternoon. My

6:47

manager, I walked from the

6:49

hotel to the bookstore on Sunset. Now

6:52

that bookstore, I used to live

6:54

right down the street from there and

6:56

I have so many memories from that

6:59

bookstore on Sunset. And right across. So

7:01

you have Book Soup? Yes, right across from what

7:04

used to be Tower Records where I played

7:06

in the parking lot. Really? When I was

7:08

first newly assigned. You played in the

7:10

parking? Oh, it was big too. Big deal for me

7:12

to play. I mean, there was probably 30

7:14

people there and I was like, oh my God. What

7:16

was the event though? It was my record release.

7:19

Oh, I see. So they did it at the records. It

7:21

was like a book signing. Yeah. And 30

7:24

people showed up? Yeah, there was probably 30 or 40 people

7:26

there. That's great that you have that. I mean, it's

7:28

great. I know. It's just like for these kids now,

7:30

it's like, I don't know. I mean, yes, I was

7:32

born in the 1870s. What can I say? I hate

7:36

it because for me,

7:39

when you sold records, you

7:41

knew you had your people. They're people

7:43

that were like into

7:46

what you're doing. How does it even work now?

7:48

You know, we just went on

7:51

TikTok, which I will say I

7:53

called TikTok in my 13-year-old was

7:56

like, oh God. Yeah. Mom,

7:58

you know. Really President

8:00

Biden? Literally,

8:03

literally. Yes. They're

8:06

like that's so cringy mom. But

8:09

we like they can do and know things

8:11

about that phone and that device and that

8:13

way of life that we don't even know

8:15

about. We're like a submarine

8:17

where we lost our sonar. We're

8:21

flying blind. And so

8:23

I mean this I've read this many times.

8:25

It's a common story that the parents something

8:27

happened usually it's something tragic like a suicide

8:30

and the parents are like, oh my

8:32

god, we had we had no idea and you

8:36

know, and then they said we tried to look

8:38

we or they'll go we look through the phone.

8:40

Yeah, they not they have ways to fool

8:43

you. You know, you are so you're so

8:45

basic on this fake snapchat Instagram.

8:50

The good thing is I have a young So

8:53

my the young woman that I hired

8:55

to go on the road with me

8:58

with my kids when

9:01

they were really little is now my assistant

9:03

and She

9:05

does all my social media. She's fantastic

9:08

and she's like my She's

9:10

like my investigator Because I

9:12

don't know how to work anything and I don't really want to

9:15

know or anything. I really don't want to

9:17

know I'm just like I I don't know. I

9:21

I like to read books. I like to listen to books,

9:23

you know Someday, I'm

9:25

gonna do a show called my five wives. I

9:28

Thought of this have you had no I've

9:30

had no wise and the reason why I

9:33

don't have any did any it's because I

9:35

have five different my assistant

9:40

I'm honestly like husband I

9:42

have a great assistant and then My

9:45

great friend who made this this next door

9:47

he goes on the road with me and

9:50

You know, he does all the macho stuff. He's

9:52

like I have five wives and a husband, you

9:55

know, like I can't fix shit He

9:57

fixes all the shit, you know, it's because something always

10:00

broken. That's a great record. You

10:02

know how you could tell I'm such a fan

10:04

of you? Not only of your music, but we

10:07

have the same taste. Some

10:09

of the songs you picked to cover are

10:12

not obvious ones. Beware of

10:14

darkness. I love that. And

10:16

everything is broken. I'm not

10:19

someone who listens to everything. I love to

10:21

even know that song. That's what I'm

10:24

saying. You picked songs. Oh, another

10:26

one. Sign My Name. One

10:28

Hit Wonder. I remember that. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

10:31

Yeah. The whole record. That record was great.

10:33

Yes. And

10:36

that was a single, I think. Yeah, it

10:38

was. It was huge. But that was a

10:40

cover that I'm sure most people did not

10:42

know was a cover. Yeah. Well, that's

10:45

a compliment. Those are all ones that are

10:47

in my iPod. I

10:49

know. I hear that you still use an iPod and I

10:51

love you for it. There I said it. So much

10:54

better. I mean, I can, first of all, I

10:56

can edit on it. Yes,

10:59

you can cut off the beginning and the end.

11:01

You can make this. Oh, really? Yes. See,

11:03

I don't even know how to work an iPod. You

11:05

are around for the... I was. I know you can edit

11:07

on it. On your computer because

11:10

you do everything on the computer and then

11:12

you sync it to the computer. Okay. You

11:14

downloaded it. Right. So

11:16

I love that. I mean, I'm anal. So

11:19

I like to... I can see exactly

11:21

the song. And I don't... streaming with

11:23

this... You might like... I might not.

11:25

I want my music.

11:27

Okay? I feel like I download

11:30

records, listen to them, keep

11:32

the ones I love, discard

11:34

the rest. There's nothing... There's no waste in there.

11:36

When I put it on shuffle, it's

11:38

my 4,000 favorite songs from going

11:40

back to 1968. Now,

11:42

how do you get turned on a new song? Anyway,

11:46

you know, like you can hear it. I

11:48

could see a... you know, I'm like... So

11:50

you would hear it and then you go on your

11:52

computer and download it from like Apple Music or do

11:54

you... No, no, no. Yes. I pay

11:56

for it. Okay. If

11:59

I like it. I put Pandora.

12:01

Okay. Is it Pandora? Yes,

12:05

Pandora, which is

12:07

stupid. I love you Pandora, but you

12:10

are dumb. You can't do what I can

12:12

do with Playlists you can only like play

12:14

songs from like the same era They

12:18

don't really have right I can put a

12:20

playlist together from like many different decades, but

12:22

they all have the same vibe Pandora

12:25

you can't do that, but you're

12:27

dear to me anyway anyway They so I'll

12:29

like put a station, you know, you pick

12:31

a song you like, okay Let's hear the

12:34

whole station songs that are like that. Okay,

12:36

that's how I often do and then you just hit thumbs

12:38

up And then you have a list

12:40

of new stuff and you like usually if I like

12:42

the song I'll say okay I'm gonna

12:44

buy cuz I buy Like

12:46

you are committed. Yes, you are committed.

12:48

Well, first of all, I think artists

12:51

should get what they have

12:53

coming I'm telling you I know this intimately

12:56

I do too. Okay, so I'm

12:58

gonna do my part. So I buy the album

13:00

you can still do that As Emilie Harris says

13:02

that's your way of voting Exactly

13:05

and then you know sink the

13:07

ice sink the ice by usually

13:09

by Three albums like

13:11

at a time so so then

13:14

let's do those three and I'll sink the

13:16

I thought and then I'll listen You know

13:18

listen look, I know you have a new

13:21

one. They sent it to me two days

13:23

ago first of all, I just don't have time

13:25

second of all I Want to

13:27

buy this the way but I bought every

13:29

one of your albums and I bought them.

13:31

They're all good Well,

13:35

there's good stuff on all okay, thank you so

13:37

I take out the ones I like but your

13:40

your Cheryl Crow playlist is just

13:42

fantastic. I mean, it's just it's just one

13:44

after another great one. Thank you So

13:47

all your hits are like thank you I also

13:49

was I don't even know what was in a

13:51

single at my age, you know, like was Apple

13:53

Abilene Was that a single that was not a

13:56

single? Okay, that's a great one. I

13:58

even know what it is out and I love Thank

14:00

you. My

14:02

favorite record, not my

14:04

favorite record, but the favorite record I've made in

14:06

a long time. The funnest record I've made was

14:08

a record called Be Myself. Oh, I

14:10

haven't. Of course. I can't believe you have

14:13

that record. I mean, literally, I

14:15

think... Okay, was that Roller Skate? Is that not

14:17

that one? Yes. Yes. Oh,

14:19

and Lifestyle? Yes. Oh. Oh

14:22

my God. I can't believe you. Oh, Always On

14:24

My Side? Is that that same record? That one

14:26

was on... That is a... I can't remember what record

14:29

that was on. That one, I hate

14:31

to say this, like, nothing

14:33

makes me cry. Well, not in

14:35

life. I'm not a crier, but movies can easily...

14:37

I don't know why. You don't cry? Not

14:40

really over things in life. That's hard, but... What

14:42

do you cry over? Like, really, almost any movie

14:44

that knows how to, like, hit that thing,

14:46

I'm a really easy cry. Okay,

14:48

The Holdovers. I cried at the end of that.

14:50

The Holdovers. What's the one with that? Yes, it

14:53

was the one with... What's his name? About the

14:55

school, the prep school

14:57

boy who gets left for Christmas. What's the guy's

14:59

name that plays in it? Anyway,

15:01

check it out. I cried at the end of it. It was

15:04

so weird. Yeah, it's very easy to do that

15:06

to me. But

15:08

musically, much less so. And I

15:11

didn't even know why that song... Oh,

15:13

I guess I do. It's just beautiful.

15:15

And it just... It really moves

15:17

me to tears in very few songs. You

15:20

know what song... Which song was it? Always

15:22

On My Side. Always On My Side. Oh, thank

15:24

you. And... The Sting version?

15:27

Both. I have them both, one after another.

15:31

You're good. Yeah, no,

15:33

it's a great duet. You

15:36

know what song made me... You wanna hear something

15:38

crazy about that? What?

15:41

We shot the

15:43

video for that four

15:46

days after I was diagnosed

15:49

with breast cancer. And

15:54

I was supposed to present at the

15:57

Grammys with Lance. And

16:01

we had split a few

16:03

days before that. Oh God. And Sting

16:05

went with me to the Grammys. Rough

16:08

week, huh? It was surreal. But

16:10

Sting was literally

16:13

like knight in shining armor. He's like, I'll

16:15

present with you. And he's like, literally,

16:17

I look at the artwork from that song. And

16:21

he's got his arms around me. I look

16:23

like a freaking deer in headlights. But you

16:25

are the- And that song,

16:27

you know. You are the teacher's

16:30

pet for every

16:34

great male rock

16:36

star over 30

16:38

years spanning the whole thing. I

16:40

mean, Prince loved you.

16:43

And Mick Jagger. And

16:46

Dylan. And all

16:49

these different everybody. Michael

16:52

Jackson. That's great. I

16:54

don't really know if he even knew who I was. I

16:56

read an interview with the Grammys after I toured with him

16:58

for 18 months. And I was just

17:00

like, hey. And he's like, hello. And

17:03

I was like, I don't think he knows who he is.

17:05

You weren't his type. Grown. But

17:09

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Oh,

17:11

I think we know. Look, I'm

17:13

very, try to be

17:16

very nonjudgmental. But I mean,

17:18

when Oprah threw her

17:20

lot in with the accusers, I

17:22

was like, well, first of all, I believe the accusers.

17:25

I mean, you can just tell. It's not that hard

17:27

sometimes to tell when people are lying. I

17:29

just don't think there was enough in it for

17:31

these guys to, you know, there's

17:34

always some money or some fame or something.

17:36

But it's really hard to go

17:38

forward even like that, even in the

17:40

beginning. It's an

17:42

icky thing. But on

17:45

stage, he certainly looked like he was a

17:47

track. Oh, I would say he was insane.

17:50

You know, he's one of those people. Well,

17:54

I would say in all the years of

17:56

my being on the road and working with

17:58

different artists. I've

18:01

been really lucky. But

18:03

I was new then, didn't have a record deal.

18:07

It's the first time I ever started

18:09

thinking about why some people can manipulate

18:11

60,000 people

18:18

physically, like

18:22

Carlos Santana says, you change

18:24

the molecules. There's

18:27

total divinity in that. If you believe in

18:29

God or you don't, it's an

18:31

energy thing. I call it divinity

18:33

because it is divine

18:35

and it is not explicable. But

18:38

then there was this whole other thing, this damage

18:41

and how a person can hold all of

18:43

that. I can see why he,

18:45

I always say he won't live

18:47

very long because you can't be

18:50

able to have that incredible

18:53

energy, energetic power and be that

18:56

damaged and have that inform

18:59

who you are in

19:01

your living everyday normal life.

19:05

It just was insane to watch because he go

19:07

out and do these moves and

19:10

sing these songs and you just

19:12

like transform. You're

19:15

watching something that had never been done before.

19:18

Just incredible. I will never forget

19:21

feeling how I felt watching him

19:23

from backstage. I

19:26

did not see that, but

19:28

I did see the movie

19:30

they put out posthumously where he's doing

19:32

rehearsals for the tour that never happened.

19:36

I did not see it. I don't

19:38

want to. Well, I'll try

19:40

to make this brief. You're

19:42

not triggered. This

19:44

is near the end. He's about to go.

19:46

Remember, it was at the O2 in London. He was going

19:48

to do the manager,

19:52

the promoter who signed

19:54

him for what was it? A hundred shows thinking

19:56

Michael Jackson was going to make it through. And

19:59

he made it through. one victory. He

20:01

was like Aaron Rodgers. Not since

20:03

the guy who turned down the

20:05

Beatles. Yeah. Was there a worse decision

20:07

than? Okay. Anyway, so

20:10

he's rehearsing and you

20:12

know, it's intermittently with Dr. Conrad Murray

20:14

currently now my personal doctor. Is he

20:16

really? I'm

20:19

like, wow. Yes. I have a

20:21

Dr. Conrad Murray, Dr. Eugene Landy,

20:23

who treated Brian Wilson and

20:26

Dr. Benny Bumbach. So that's my team.

20:28

No wonder you look so good. Thank you. I owe

20:31

it all to clean liquor. Oh

20:34

my God.

20:37

About the show, you watched the documentary.

20:39

Oh yeah. So, you know, a

20:42

lot of it is and, but

20:44

there was still moments

20:46

where in rehearsal, he

20:49

would be the old Michael Jackson and

20:51

would just go off and

20:54

the other dancers in the crew would,

20:56

were just like slack dread and

20:58

then would burst into applause at the end. Yeah.

21:01

So it was just like a flame that

21:03

burned very bright consistently for

21:05

a while. And then it was just only

21:08

a flicker. And then once in a while it would

21:10

shoot up for a moment. Yeah. That was never going

21:12

to get through. A healthy person at

21:14

that. I mean, he was already like 40 or I don't

21:17

know how old he was at the time.

21:22

Maybe close to 50, 50. I mean,

21:25

yeah. And no, no. You

21:28

know, a noseless skeleton. That makes me

21:30

tricky. A warm a hundred shows. It's

21:33

tricky. It's hard to

21:36

like, but I

21:38

must say, I mean, you

21:40

said he's insane. Yes. That is the form of

21:42

insanity. I think it's

21:44

insane in a good way, but also

21:46

a conflicted way, a very conflicted way. You

21:49

know, I don't think really a

21:51

great way. I think show

21:53

business at that level. I mean, the thing you

21:55

were just talking about where the

21:57

magic, the Carlos Santana thing that energy,

22:00

the divinity, whatever you want to call it. That

22:03

thing is so powerful that

22:05

the person who is reflecting

22:07

that ray off them back to

22:10

the audience, that

22:12

ray is transforming

22:16

their mind. I mean, with you now

22:18

with Kanye West, you just see with

22:20

lots of people who it's

22:22

just like you're a normal person and then they

22:26

can't handle this level of adulation and

22:28

you can have anything you want. That's

22:30

what warps their brain. And you're allowed

22:32

to pig out

22:34

on whatever you want.

22:37

I mean, it's like young

22:40

athletes who become huge and get these massive

22:43

salaries and then wind

22:45

up having to

22:47

claim bankruptcy. I

22:50

mean, it's all too much. I

22:52

think money is man. It's not the money so

22:54

much. It's power, right?

22:56

And the ego

23:01

and the adoration. That's what

23:03

it is. The fame. It's no

23:05

one ever saying anything but yes.

23:08

And can I get you more? Can

23:11

I get you a better drug? Yes. Can

23:13

I get you more pussy? And

23:15

also you're dispensable.

23:18

Whoever is serving you is also

23:20

highly dispensable. So that person and

23:23

having been around artists that have

23:26

people that are the yes people, they're

23:28

terrified of getting replaced. So

23:30

it's a vicious cycle. Yeah.

23:33

I mean, I can't imagine doing it as

23:35

a woman. It's that rock

23:37

and roll. It's just in general

23:39

that lifestyle. It's not

23:42

really, it doesn't jive with

23:44

maybe modern

23:46

women when we're all trans and we're

23:48

all non binary and we make no

23:51

assumptions at birth. But like old school women

23:53

of which you are one and I love

23:55

you for it. Let's say women classic. Yes,

23:58

I'm a classic woman. Yeah, I may

24:01

um, what's what's the term something

24:03

about a child bearing? Yeah,

24:06

a child bearing, you know, I have something

24:08

here an Emancerating

24:11

person or whatever menstruating person. Yeah what

24:13

we now have to you know, because we

24:15

don't want to offend pregnant men or something

24:17

Yeah, yeah, that's the kind of shit that

24:20

drives me. Yeah crazy It

24:22

doesn't really work if you've gone through menopause and

24:24

then you it's just it's too complicated bill. It's

24:26

just too complicated Well, you know,

24:28

there's nothing wrong with teaching

24:32

That there is a default setting to

24:36

certain things and Also,

24:39

we completely accept and respect when something

24:41

is not the default setting. It's like

24:43

most people are right-handed That's

24:45

the default setting they used to

24:47

actually discriminate against left-handed people. They thought it was like

24:50

a sign of the devil or some shit Really?

24:53

But we got over that thing is a left-handed people I

24:55

know and Okay Okay,

24:59

I'm here with hilarious Matt friend

25:01

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Turn's condition, message and data rates

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may apply. You

26:09

might know Ben Mankiewicz as a host on

26:12

Turner Classic Movies. Now you can hear Ben

26:14

in intimate conversation with some of the most

26:16

influential filmmakers and movie buffs of our time

26:19

on the new podcast, Talking Pictures from

26:21

TCM and Max. Personal

26:23

and honest conversations with the greats. Nancy

26:26

Meyers, Mel Brooks, Emerald Fennell and me.

26:29

I did it too. I watched Reds and talked about it

26:31

with Ben and had a blast. Listen

26:33

to Talking Pictures on Max or wherever you

26:36

get your podcast. Well,

26:38

first of all, I know you don't have to do this. I

26:41

can't tell you how appreciative I am. How flattering

26:43

anything. I wanted to come do it. I

26:45

know, I know that's why you're here. That's why

26:47

I'm so glad. And I love your show. I

26:49

love the,

26:53

how thought provoking and how

26:55

truth telling and how conversational

26:59

is. It is interesting talking

27:02

about Bobby. I've known

27:04

Kid Rock for a lot of

27:06

years and he and I are-

27:08

Picture. We're a great- What

27:10

a record. Speaking of picture.

27:12

I think we're a great

27:15

illustration of two people who are very

27:17

on very different sides

27:20

politically. Of course. And

27:22

we've had some deep

27:25

and hard conversations after the shooting

27:27

in Nashville. Right. I

27:30

called him and said, I need to understand what

27:33

is happening. I reached out to

27:35

a lot of different country artists and got

27:38

nowhere. And he said, I wanna

27:40

come over and talk to you about it. And we

27:42

sat and we talked about it and talked about his

27:44

grandkids actually go to school where my kids go and,

27:47

or his granddaughter.

27:50

And people can sit and

27:52

talk about hard stuff and

27:54

compromise and- My quest to

27:57

follow that song. I

27:59

wish to- No matter how

28:01

hopeless, no matter how long.

28:04

Yes, that's what I'm always trying to

28:06

do. Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, and

28:08

I love that. When this came up, I was

28:10

like, yes, yes. You know the

28:13

people I fucking hate the most? Now, if you ask

28:15

me, who do I think is the biggest threat to

28:17

this country, it's not even close. It is the right

28:19

wing. They don't believe in

28:21

democracy anymore or the environment. I know, it's

28:23

scary. Yeah, okay. Donald Trump still exists. He's

28:25

still out there. We need a bigger boat,

28:28

blah, blah, blah. But who

28:30

viscerally makes me want to punch them

28:32

in the fucking face? Okay, who? The

28:35

kind of people who, like

28:38

if you were someone who, after

28:41

doing picture with Kid Rock, wouldn't talk to

28:43

him because he voted for Trump, I'd

28:45

hate you. Yeah. That's the

28:47

kind of person I fucking hate. Okay, so

28:50

I grew up with a conservative

28:52

and a liberal. And

28:54

when I turned 18, my dad

28:56

and my mom, secretly, were

28:58

like, who are you gonna vote for? Because they would

29:00

always cancel each other out, their votes. And

29:03

it was always a thing. I mean, in our household,

29:05

there were heated conversations

29:08

about what was going on politically. We had the nightly

29:10

news and that was it. Nightly

29:12

news and then 11 o'clock news, which nobody ever

29:14

watched. So it wasn't

29:17

like now. But people talked about

29:19

shit, you know? And disagreed about

29:21

it. And that's my only thing.

29:23

I'm like, we gotta get, what's

29:27

happening now is terrifying. I keep saying

29:29

it, you can hate Trump. You can't hate

29:31

everyone who likes him. It's half the country.

29:33

You can't. At least vote for him. And

29:36

as much as I would never do that

29:38

and nobody's been harder on him, I

29:42

get it. I get it

29:44

where different people are coming from. They didn't

29:46

grow up like you. They don't think like

29:48

you. And you can't make them and you

29:51

shouldn't try. Let's, you know,

29:53

let's complete the circle and

29:55

have our differences be our strength. That kind

29:57

of stuff. that

30:00

they're always talking about. But it's true, I

30:03

don't wanna live in a country without

30:05

the red states. I like going to

30:07

the red states. There's

30:10

something about that being there that I

30:12

don't get here. Like

30:16

a bad fucking attitude. You

30:18

know? Just, not

30:21

as judgy. Sorry, I'm

30:23

going in for my second. They tell

30:25

me there was free beer on this podcast, so I'm like,

30:28

oh yeah, I'll uh. I gotta say, beer

30:30

comes up in your songs a lot. I am

30:32

a beer drinker. Oh, I can tell. Now, let

30:34

me just tell you, my wilder years were a

30:36

little later, right? What? My

30:38

wilder years were a little later, and

30:40

now it's pulled back to just the

30:43

occasional, you know, beer. But

30:46

have you ever counted how many songs of yours have

30:48

beer in the lyrics? Ah,

30:51

what can I tell you? I just really hope you

30:53

have that endorsement. Yeah. What

30:56

did you think when he shot the Bud Light?

30:59

Did you call him in? I'm going

31:01

to be honest with you. And I don't know

31:04

if you'll see this or not. That's

31:06

why I called him and said, I need to

31:08

understand where the hell you're coming from when we

31:10

just had. And I

31:12

said, what? Is it

31:14

Budweiser? Is it the Trans

31:17

Dylan? Because neither one

31:19

of those have anything to do with how much

31:21

money you make or your freedom. He knows that.

31:24

Yes, he did. And so I said,

31:26

I need to understand. And he's like, I'm

31:28

going to come over. And I love him

31:31

for that. Absolutely. I

31:33

mean, that's not the only reason I love

31:35

him. But we are like family. Like he told me

31:37

when my boys came along, anything

31:39

ever happens, I'm there for the kids. So,

31:42

and he came over. And you know what?

31:44

Before he left, we hugged

31:47

and told each other we loved each other. Yes.

31:49

We hammered it out. Yes. You know?

31:52

I mean, I had Ann Coulter on the show a couple

31:54

of weeks ago. OK. And I hadn't done it

31:56

on for a while. But I mean, I've been friends with her since 1994 or

31:59

something. Yeah, and no

32:02

one's gonna make me not be friends with her

32:04

She's a fun chick to hang out with and

32:06

we don't talk politics if we're not on the

32:08

show Because I know where she is and

32:10

she knows where I am Don't

32:14

tell me who my friends can be yeah

32:16

really obnoxious. Yeah, that's the kind

32:18

of shit I hate I will

32:21

say one thing talk to them. Maybe you'll

32:23

find something you don't know That is

32:25

exactly right and for me. I'm a

32:27

I'm a research Junkie

32:30

like I need to understand like whatever

32:33

is happening in the world I

32:35

need to go back and find out what the history

32:37

of it is because more than likely what we know

32:39

about it is not really the reality but

32:42

one of the things I'm learning is that People

32:46

have big platforms that you do outlandish

32:48

things in order to whip up your

32:50

base I mean, it's what politicians do

32:52

it's what people and that

32:54

is so ego driven. Okay, that's fine We

32:56

all know that all of us have big

32:58

egos So and Kid

33:00

Rock is not exempt from that. It's

33:03

fun to whip it up and see what happens

33:05

You know me and so and

33:07

that's kind of what he said. He's like that. It wasn't

33:09

me, you know, isn't it wasn't this I wasn't that you

33:11

know Showman it's all

33:13

that's what it is But my thing is I want

33:16

to make sure that all the people out there that jump on

33:18

the hate bandwagon That and

33:20

it becomes dangerous like we hate Dylan

33:22

whoever and we hate Budweiser and all

33:24

that y'all are being played Y'all

33:28

are being whipped into This

33:30

us against them. This is we're in this

33:32

group of people that hate this and that

33:35

And that's the part I have the problem with I don't

33:37

like what I see on the news is a lot of college

33:39

kids Saying things

33:41

to people who support Israel like you're not

33:44

see scum I mean who have who

33:46

have everything so ass backwards that

33:52

That's when I need a joint but I will never

33:54

light one up but

33:56

can I hold one Yes,

33:58

you can't if I wasn't singing or I think They like

34:00

that bad boy up right now. No, I know

34:02

I've never not but like for you First of

34:04

all, I would do I would do this on

34:06

standing on me I would do this standing on

34:08

my head, but it is a

34:10

little like running a marathon for the first I'm

34:13

saying I know it's got to be hard. It's difficult

34:16

First you're wearing a suit jacket and now you're

34:18

not smoking and I feel better. Thank you much.

34:20

I appreciate that You know, I appreciate

34:22

that. I I feel better now. I'm almost

34:25

like George Burns with the cigar remember George

34:27

Burnley always had a fucking cigar. Yeah, I

34:29

guess take my wife after the stage of

34:31

show business. I'm at I need the prop

34:33

cigar Oh God Your

34:39

boy Willie Nelson signed that oh

34:42

love that man. Yes another

34:44

one everybody Like adopted

34:47

you everybody wanted to get

34:49

a little of your I've been very Listen,

34:53

I'm blessed Beyond I

34:55

don't even know what to say. I'm just blessed.

34:57

I know that sounds Darnley love

34:59

Don. He was in the news yesterday.

35:02

What was done? Okay,

35:04

I read New York Times in the morning and

35:07

then I I just

35:09

want to know that the world hasn't blown up Although it

35:11

is blowing up. I can't even

35:13

go near it now. It's so oh Toxic,

35:17

but what's going on? He's suing. Well,

35:19

he's showing They

35:22

somebody lyrics lyrics Yeah, that already

35:24

know notebook came out that he

35:27

it has all their notes when they were doing

35:29

their stuff him and Glenn and And

35:32

they lost he lost right didn't I see

35:34

that? I think I looked at the

35:36

news last night after he landed Probably

35:38

I mean, it's I think he didn't get it back. Yeah.

35:41

Yes But it

35:43

said the Eagles that said that's their last tour. I

35:45

guess that they're on that's really Well

35:49

You're right because they even had to call one They

35:52

even had to call their their rose recent

35:54

incarnation the hell freezes over tour But he

35:57

had said in 1980 will get

35:59

by the other one now You had a good hell of a

36:01

presence already. Well, you're typical of their cheeky humor. I

36:03

love those guys. And that's one of the

36:05

greatest bands and sounds of all time. And

36:07

by the way,

36:10

60 Minutes, I saw your documentary

36:12

opens that you're with whoever,

36:14

Steve Croft or somebody.

36:18

And I did it once, Joyful Experience, isn't it,

36:20

60 Minutes? But-

36:23

I didn't even know what Joyful Experience was back then. Oh,

36:25

I know. I was thrilled to be on

36:28

it. I was like, hey. Nice to

36:30

meet you, Mr. Croft. Exactly. I mean, 60

36:32

Minutes. But they had the Eagles once. And

36:36

they were putting out- remember, they put out an album, very

36:38

good album in 2007. They hadn't

36:40

put out one in 28 years. And

36:42

they put out one called Long Road to Eden. Yes,

36:45

I do remember that. And it's really good.

36:47

It's a double album. Yes, I do remember that.

36:49

So they were promoting that. And

36:52

Steve Croft or whoever says to Glenn

36:54

Fry like, what, you know, 60 Minutes.

36:57

I want to attribute to the success

37:00

of the- and he just named

37:04

the song titles. And

37:06

I thought it was the most eloquent answer. And you could do

37:08

the same thing. You just have

37:10

to like give your song titles if

37:12

somebody ever says, what is your- psychologically,

37:14

how did you manipulate- Well, funny you

37:17

should add, because really all I want to do is have

37:19

some fun. But you know what? If it makes you

37:21

happy, I can't be that bad. But sometimes a change

37:23

would do you good. Yeah.

37:26

I mean, that's really at the end of

37:28

the day to me. And that's again why I

37:30

love the iPod because I can just have that

37:32

so I can know exactly how great an artist

37:34

is. I just went after another. And

37:38

you can do that. You know, there is- look

37:40

in this, your business, if you have one hit,

37:42

you can work forever. Somewhere. I

37:44

have seen funny story though. I didn't- But

37:47

if to do a whole show of hits, that's

37:49

your that kind of act. And that's

37:51

why they'll always come out. So

37:53

I wound up on a gig with Lana

37:56

Ritchie and Billy Joel in

37:58

Atlanta. Then which is

38:00

why I say really really fun I was

38:02

I was the first one on and and

38:04

in the backstage area I come back in

38:06

Atlanta like shield having here and he pulled

38:08

me into Billy's dresser Music the three of

38:11

us we have hit we set a goal

38:13

and world's your we get a kick the

38:15

same as a hit on I want because

38:17

the nothing but hits and he turns around

38:19

It was like Borscht Belt Cheryl You know

38:21

when you play new songs as like know

38:23

never inevitably of like they don't want to

38:25

hear new songs they just wanna hear the

38:27

his up and now every some I play

38:29

and like. Been.

38:31

Told there was a new songs and movies

38:33

but in avenue record so it's like i

38:35

guess and replay new some that. Well.

38:37

But it will been it would know. That

38:40

you sneak one in here. Are either make

38:42

a man I know how they do

38:44

with yeah I'm. And then they go to

38:46

the bathroom. While. You're playing it or hopefully

38:48

by a t shirt. Yeah.

38:51

But it's been five years that record

38:53

will be there will be sewn some

38:55

that record that will be furthered him

38:57

and they'll probably like those you know

38:59

to me when I'm naming room. Answer.

39:02

The aged out as having you know,

39:05

So. Well.

39:07

And a movie even. What makes his

39:10

yeah, I guess I get what you

39:12

say. Yeah, it's hard to are. A.

39:14

Member Mccartney put out a really

39:16

great album and Nineteen Eighty Nine

39:18

Flowers In The Dirt. I left that

39:21

records. And. I thought it was

39:23

like it was. He did it with Elvis Costello

39:25

vs. assumed I was like one of them. Were.

39:27

With could have stood as a beetle record.

39:30

Yeah, he was that good. And

39:32

bad be as crown. And of course he

39:34

was forty seven at the time. so it's

39:36

just. You. Know that generation

39:38

is just gonna say. No.

39:40

I'm sorry you had your moment. I don't

39:43

care how good it is. You.

39:45

Know and now dispassionately. Try

39:47

being sixty two. And. A

39:49

woman sina right sell or

39:52

though. I. Made his son well

39:54

I would not. I.

39:58

I. Wouldn't stop making. records I don't

40:00

know about albums. I didn't make this an album because

40:02

I had so many songs. But it's

40:05

weird to put music out and know that

40:08

a song is going to turn up maybe on a

40:10

playlist with like Ice

40:14

Spice. I mean, it's just it's so antithetical,

40:16

you know what I'm saying? Like

40:18

you're on New Music Friday and you're like

40:20

be plopped between, if you're

40:23

lucky, if you're lucky, you know,

40:26

actually, yes, I was at a ball game with

40:28

her. Really? Yes. About 20

40:31

sections away. Oh, yeah.

40:33

But wasn't she at the Super Bowl with Taylor

40:36

Swift? Yeah. Boy, if Taylor Swift

40:38

thinks that she invented the breakup

40:40

song. Oh, I said this

40:42

to somebody recently. First of all, she's got to listen

40:45

to You're So Vain, Carly Simon. That kind of like...

40:47

There's not a better one than that. Well, there

40:49

is not a better one, but Alone in

40:51

the Dark by Cheryl Crow. Oh, my God.

40:54

Was that a single? I

40:56

love it. Hell no. No, really?

40:58

Oh, that's a real shiv in

41:00

the gut. You're wearing like an earpiece.

41:04

Why? You think I'm so old I can't hear? Alone

41:06

in the dark. No, no. You're

41:08

so... I can't believe you know all these like

41:10

deep claps. Well, anybody who works here, I'll tell you,

41:12

I'm a very big music fan. So

41:16

I just I know what I know. That's awesome. Now, do I

41:18

know? Can I name every song on

41:20

every album? No, but I have stuff from

41:22

every album. Yeah. I have the ones that

41:24

I really adore. Steve

41:26

McQueen. Which one is

41:29

that? Is that that was a single? That was a

41:31

single. Yeah, that was on the fourth record.

41:33

That's in the tradition

41:36

of the cool

41:38

chick who's too cool to get

41:40

tied down genre. Oh, yeah. That

41:42

was so sexy. Oh, my God.

41:44

I got on my dirt bike. I mean,

41:46

God. Oh,

41:52

really? See, I don't remember the video. Yeah.

41:54

In fact, I was hanging out with

41:56

Dale Earnhardt in that video. And... Never

42:00

getting married. Right. Because Steve McQueen, Well,

42:02

I Need Is A Fast Machine, right?

42:05

Yeah. But do you

42:07

remember the Stone Ponies, Linda Ronstead?

42:09

Yeah, of course. Doing Different

42:11

Drum? Yes, of course. Yeah. Do

42:14

you remember that song? Yeah. That's

42:16

that same. We

42:19

travel to a different drum, can't you see

42:21

the way I run? Yeah. Every

42:23

time you make eyes at me, don't get me

42:25

wrong. It's not that I knock

42:27

it, it's just that I'm not

42:29

in the market. What a great rhyme. Knock

42:31

it in the market. For somebody who wants to love

42:33

just only me. Yeah. I ain't

42:36

saying you ain't pretty. All

42:39

I'm saying is I'm not ready for

42:41

any person's place or thing that tries to put the

42:43

reins in on me. Bitch.

42:47

Damn. So that kind of song,

42:49

I think, we should do a whole like

42:51

album, just those. Three

42:54

birds, get off my... You

42:57

don't know me like that. Get up off of

42:59

me songs. You know, I've

43:01

had this long

43:04

standing introduction to strong enough

43:06

to be my man about how I never

43:08

got married. I never

43:10

got married. Got engaged three times. What

43:12

you did? Still have all my money. Never

43:14

got divorced. You engaged to Lance Armstrong? I was. You know,

43:16

he sat right there a few months ago. I

43:19

actually caught the very beginning of that. And I

43:21

saw Bobby Kidd. I've seen actually quite a few

43:23

of them. Wow. What an intense guy. Is

43:26

he? Lance Armstrong? Who would

43:28

know better than you? I don't know

43:30

him now in this incarnation, because he's...

43:32

Wasn't he then? He was

43:34

then, but he was racing then. And you

43:37

know, but like... He was intense. Just to

43:39

pick that as a profession, riding a bike.

43:43

Well, of course you got an intense...

43:45

I will say my 16 year

43:47

old is on a bass fishing team, which I didn't know

43:49

was actually a sport. So when I met

43:52

Lance, I was like, bike riding, that's a sport. It's

43:54

not. So yeah, I didn't realize... Bass

43:56

fishing is not a sport. Either is running around the

43:58

block. But they may be

44:00

in the living room. I'm going to have to dispute

44:03

that with you just as

44:06

long as I know my kid might be watching this. It

44:09

is a sport. The day I'm

44:11

bath boat costs 70 grand. Okay. It's not

44:13

like buying a baseball bat. Baseball

44:18

bat is 350, honey. Oh

44:20

my God. But

44:22

you still drink beer. You still drink

44:25

beer. I do. What drugs did

44:27

you do back in the day? That's what I'm

44:29

saying. Like the light. My wilder

44:31

days were drinking,

44:36

smoking weed,

44:38

smoking cigarettes because I was super

44:41

cool when I was drunk. Me too.

44:45

Cigarettes. That's the one I regret. Yeah.

44:48

I don't have the addict gene. So I

44:50

could just like not smoke for, you

44:53

know, then I would have three glasses of red

44:55

wine and be like bumming cigarettes, you

44:57

know. Well, very

44:59

few people don't have the addict

45:02

gene for nicotine. I do not have

45:04

it. I didn't ever

45:06

start the habit of like smoking when

45:08

I was not drinking. So I don't

45:10

know if I would have been, but

45:12

I don't know. Just

45:15

did a guided mushroom tour

45:17

recently or guided mushroom journey, which

45:21

I don't call that. I call it a tour.

45:23

It was a tour through my very effed

45:25

up brain, if you know what I'm saying. What

45:28

do you mean? What was it? What are we talking about? If

45:31

you're a guided psilocybin. Oh,

45:34

cool. Guided though. Yeah.

45:36

Dude, Johns Hopkins. How bougie. To

45:38

have a guided fucking drug. I

45:41

know. It's a crisis. Because if you can do mushrooms, I'm

45:43

like, okay. But what do you mean guided? So

45:46

you do it. But you've

45:48

done mushrooms before now. Yes, but not

45:50

like medicinal, like

45:54

full powered. You

45:56

mean it was. A two and a half hour or three

45:58

hour. where

46:01

they give you some and then you take more

46:03

and you do it with a

46:05

like a playlist. We're not

46:07

talking about Hiawaska here, we're talking about

46:09

mushrooms. No. Because mushrooms I've done many

46:11

times and I you

46:13

know it's yeah it's a trip. Yeah.

46:15

I mean so what does

46:17

the guide do? The guide is

46:20

on your left. They

46:22

say if you look to the cerebellum.

46:25

Try not to look over to the I

46:28

think more than anything what they what

46:31

they do is make sure that you're

46:33

not if you're not a person who

46:35

like does recreational drugs. It's

46:38

more from a scientific standpoint for people

46:40

who struggle with manic depression or depression

46:42

or whatever it is. Right

46:46

and I think it's very helpful. It

46:49

was I mean it was helpful. LSD

46:51

started out as that. Timothy

46:53

Leary got a hold of it. You know

46:55

that that chair over there is his chair.

46:58

Seriously? Did you did you

47:00

watch or did you ever listen to the

47:04

Michael Pollan stuff? Yeah. Food guy.

47:07

So interesting. Yes. Right. No no no

47:09

yeah but he did all the

47:11

films. Yeah. Yes. And

47:13

then what fantastic fun fantastic

47:16

fungi or fungi that

47:18

documentary? Well don't get

47:20

me started on fungus. No seriously. Really?

47:22

Yeah. I mean I'm a big believer

47:24

that it's something

47:27

that we don't pay the kind

47:29

of attention to. I agree. We should. I think

47:32

Western medicine sees everything as bacterial.

47:34

Yeah. And they misdiagnose stuff and

47:37

fungus is I

47:39

think responsible for stuff that even the

47:41

CDC a few years ago finally said

47:43

if you don't know what something is

47:45

look to fungus. Yeah. And that was

47:48

like many years late. So

47:50

like I said don't get me started. I know I

47:52

agree. This is a whole different podcast. I mean for

47:54

those who want to look more. I'm so with you.

47:56

I'm so with you. Yeah,

48:00

man. Yeah, man. I want

48:02

to be in the fungus club. Fungus. When

48:04

HBO did that show, they

48:07

did some shows, a huge hit. What was it?

48:09

It was called The Last of Us. How to

48:11

Change Your Mind? I think. Oh,

48:13

yeah, it is. And it was about the

48:15

villain in it. Oh, shut up. It

48:18

said finally. Somebody's getting

48:20

on the fungus thing. Oh, the villain.

48:22

Not the same. Yeah, well, the villain

48:25

in the sense that whatever was taking

48:27

over people and turning them into zombies,

48:29

everything has to be up to either

48:31

a zombie or a Dracula. Yeah. This

48:34

is TV. Yeah. But the thing

48:36

that was behind it was fungus. I was like, yes, that's

48:39

much more likely than, you know, yeah.

48:41

I need so many cancers or diagnosis cancer when

48:44

they're fungal. Well, my

48:46

dog. Case in point. Well,

48:49

do you know when they want to what

48:51

they do when they want to give mice

48:53

cancer in the

48:55

lab? They saw taste in mushrooms and

48:58

basically. Really? They give

49:00

them mycotoxins. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's

49:03

a talk. Yeah. Fungus toxin.

49:06

Penicillin. Yeah. Antibiotics

49:09

are sometimes are

49:12

often. Weren't they derived from fungus? Moldy

49:14

bread. Yeah, moldy bread. Okay. So

49:17

the connection. I meant saying I know

49:19

the connection, but I've certainly read about the subject and

49:21

people have the theories and it looks like there. I

49:24

think there is quite a connection between

49:27

cancer and fungal

49:29

infection and you know, but the

49:31

crazy thing about it is, is that when they

49:33

do studies about like forestry, how

49:35

fungus or mushrooms

49:37

create their own. Yes.

49:40

The way they can actually go in

49:42

and save some trees by creating their

49:44

own antibiotics. I mean,

49:47

I think there's so many

49:49

amazing possibilities, not

49:52

just for humans, but also for the

49:54

planet. I mean, at this moment when we're asleep at the

49:56

wheel and nobody seems to give a shit about

49:58

the planet because we're two words. worried about

50:00

making sure, I mean, it

50:03

drives me crazy how

50:05

we're turning a blind guy to this or a blind guy.

50:08

But anyway, the fact that mushrooms could

50:11

be a huge answer to what's happening

50:13

to at least preserve it.

50:15

Or a huge problem. I mean, they can kill

50:17

us. I mean, you don't want to breathe in

50:19

mold. No, not mold. Well,

50:22

but I mean, fungus is

50:24

really strong. Almost every

50:26

plant in nature is antifungal because it needs

50:28

to be. These plants don't have legs. They

50:31

can't run away. And then they

50:33

can repel it. But take a

50:35

lemon, like the most antifungal

50:38

things. It's pure citrus. You

50:40

leave it on the counter long enough. What

50:43

does it look like? It has mold

50:45

all over it. Yeah, and you'll eat

50:47

through a marble countertop. Fungus is unrelenting.

50:50

I'm a hawk on fungus. Fungus

50:53

is unrelenting. The name of our new podcast.

50:57

Extremism and the fight against fungus

50:59

is no vice. And

51:02

moderation is no virtue. I'm a one issue

51:04

candidate. I'm a hawk on fungus. And I'm

51:06

going to attack anyone who's to my left

51:08

on this issue. But it is true. I

51:10

mean, fungus, you should, you know, people should

51:13

think about fungus more like, sinal infections. I

51:15

don't want to get started on it. But I

51:17

will say for people who have struggled with depression,

51:20

people who have, you know, mental

51:22

challenges that the studies they've done

51:24

at Johns Hopkins for

51:26

years, it was shut down. They

51:28

saw great outcomes for

51:30

people with PTSD. You know, I think

51:33

at least people are starting to get

51:35

back to the base where they can look at

51:38

some of these natural holistic as

51:42

being at least worth,

51:45

you know, legalizing. Oh,

51:49

yeah. I mean, I don't think the amount of

51:51

mushrooms that you took

51:53

for psychological reasons would be the kind that would

51:56

be bad for you. And by the way, if

51:58

you don't have a fungal infection. It's

52:00

not, you can eat mushrooms

52:02

and your body has in it

52:05

fungus that is natural that you need

52:07

some good bacteria, some bad bacteria and

52:09

some fungus. It's when you get the

52:11

proportions out of whack. Antibiotics

52:14

kill the good bacteria which fight

52:16

with the fungus for food. That's

52:18

how we kill bacteria. But unfortunately

52:20

when they kill the bad bacteria, they

52:22

kill the good bacteria and then the

52:24

fungus proliferate. Somebody

52:27

who's had antibiotics probably has some level of

52:29

a fungal infection. Absolutely.

52:32

And fungus live on one thing, sugar.

52:35

So you always feed them when you're eating

52:37

the kind of things that are in the

52:39

American diet, syrups and sugar

52:42

and carbohydrates. That

52:44

kind of stuff feeds when you're hungry like that.

52:47

It's the fungus calling out

52:49

for food. I told you

52:51

not to get me started. I

52:54

know, I did it. Oh, you

52:56

knew so much about mushrooms. Fungus.

52:59

No one told me. Fungus.

53:02

I'm telling you we could own it as a subject.

53:05

This is a three hour podcast.

53:08

Only about fungus. Only about fungus.

53:10

And every week, but only

53:12

about fungus. It's like those stores that say like only

53:15

lamps. You know what I'm saying? Excuse

53:18

me. Do you have shades? I'm

53:20

sure that happens once a day.

53:22

Holy lamps. What do

53:24

I have to fucking put in

53:26

the title? It says only lamps.

53:28

What do I have to do?

53:30

Not lazy boys. But

53:34

no, I mean, you

53:36

could do a morning talk show

53:39

if that's something you, you

53:41

could be on The View. What do you think about that,

53:43

Carol? No. No and

53:45

no. Demands. And equivocally and what

53:48

is the pay? The ratings

53:50

would be through the roof. I swear to God.

53:52

First of all, you're from Missouri? Where

53:54

is my thing? I don't really like people. I'm

53:58

from Missouri. Yes. So

54:00

like you have that accent, you

54:03

know, yeah, you still yeah, you still

54:05

sound country Well, I live in

54:07

Nashville now. Okay, but it's also in your and I don't

54:09

know what you're talking about. I'm kidding

54:13

That's good because everything is

54:15

tilted toward the coastal

54:18

Elites in their people and they like

54:20

entire coasts have moved to Nashville. That's

54:23

true, too. Yes it is and Yeah,

54:28

we'll see how that plays out in

54:30

politics You know most of LA lives

54:32

in Nashville now. Well Nashville in

54:34

Austin seemed to be the kind of places

54:36

Yeah, and I get it To

54:40

a degree Miami, but Miami is too

54:42

crazy Yeah, but like places where

54:44

people want to go where no, I

54:47

don't want to live in the sticks with a bunch

54:49

of Hicks But I also don't want to live You

54:52

know at the park in Beverly Hills where you can't

54:54

throw a frisbee Yeah, yeah

54:57

because of that kind of

54:59

asshole Is there a place

55:01

in America where I can like get away

55:03

from those extremes? That's

55:06

where I can work from home Yeah where I

55:08

can like and I can buy a really nice

55:10

house for about a 10th

55:12

of the price and the money and have

55:14

a giant yard, right Yeah,

55:17

no, we're gonna so I'm sure you know, Nashville

55:19

is not a hick town It's where all

55:22

the musicians are like a little I would

55:24

say it's There's

55:26

place. It's a I can't say it's

55:28

like Austin where it's like a blue oasis I

55:31

mean, I think it's and there's a little

55:33

the bluest in all of Tennessee doesn't need

55:35

to be no Well, I'm just having a place.

55:37

Yeah, we can get a nice dinner. You

55:40

can get a nice dinner You

55:43

can see Kings of Leon or you can go Exactly,

55:45

you know, yeah, I mean

55:48

Jack white right it doesn't

55:50

have any Metropolitan Museum of Art,

55:52

but I never went there anyway Who

55:54

goes to those places? I

55:58

mean everybody in New York is always like the museum How

56:00

often do you go to a museum? You go

56:02

there once a year. I

56:04

mean, I was never a culture vulture. I mean,

56:06

I like culture. Culture vulture,

56:09

I like that. See, that's the thing

56:11

that you find. Culture vulture. Unique

56:14

New York. Unique

56:16

New York. Sorry, I

56:19

have kids. That's what we do. Are

56:22

you always doing that? You're

56:24

like a Blue Jay who's always finding

56:26

little scraps. I'm like, I'm going to be

56:28

a nest. Because, you know, this could go

56:30

in a song. This could be a title. Oh,

56:35

you mean like am I collecting constantly? We should

56:37

be. Like fodder. Oh

56:40

my God. I

56:42

used to when I

56:44

would be making a record or

56:46

getting ready to make a record. Like we'd have a

56:48

record out, we'd have success. We'd tour,

56:51

I'd come home. I'd start writing and

56:53

it would be like, okay, what

56:56

am I writing about? You

56:58

know, lots of frantic, checking what notes

57:00

have I written. Now, my

57:04

kids leave for school. I got

57:06

to my screen on porch. Notepad, guitar,

57:08

cup of tea. And I write my freakin'

57:13

brains out. Really? There's

57:16

so much to write about right now. You mean literally

57:18

a cup of tea? Literally,

57:20

no, coffee in the morning. Yeah.

57:22

I mean, I'm talking about 6.30 in the morning. I

57:26

really value the time because it's only

57:28

once a day. Me too. I

57:30

have three cups of coffee in the morning. Yeah, right.

57:34

But once a day, first thing, and then by the time you

57:36

sleep... Don't talk to me until I've had my

57:38

coffee. My kids know it. They're like, don't

57:40

talk to her. And they abide

57:42

by that? Really? Yes. In

57:44

fact, my 13-year-old is the exact same way. We're

57:46

just like... So,

57:50

would you and the kids send a house outside of

57:52

Nashville? Yeah, we're kind

57:54

of... We're not in

57:57

downtown Nashville. We're in Nashville. And

57:59

then you have a studio. I'm guessing in your house,

58:01

of course. Over the barn. Over

58:03

the barn. Yeah. It's

58:06

ideal. It's, oh, come on. Who lives like

58:08

me? Me. Yeah. And

58:10

do you, can you like, you have like a fireman's pole

58:12

you can go right down into the barn when you want

58:14

to? Like one of these? When you want

58:16

to... Uh, no. That's a stripper ball. Yeah,

58:18

no, I know. I recognize it for Kid

58:21

Rock's outfit, okay? It was here when I bought the

58:23

house. Yeah. Yeah.

58:26

Yeah. It's necessary for wiring. Oh,

58:29

yes. Um... No, I

58:31

don't have a fireman's pole. Actually, I don't even go

58:33

down there unless I'm like going to record and I

58:35

didn't, I didn't do any recording on this record. I

58:38

sent it to my friend and said, these

58:40

are my mini screenplays and

58:43

I want you to Martin Scorsese the shit out

58:45

of them. And it was the

58:47

most glorious experience

58:49

I've ever had. I don't

58:51

understand. Okay, so I usually produce myself and

58:53

I usually am like from the beginning to

58:56

the end and playing

58:58

and writing and

59:01

this bunch of songs because you

59:03

know the last record I put out I said I'm not

59:05

making records anymore. No more albums.

59:08

You mean my song? Was that it? Nope, it

59:10

was Threads. Threads? With everybody,

59:12

yes. With lots of people. Again, you picked

59:14

these songs that are like... Um,

59:17

man, I'll tell you what, the song though was

59:19

Johnny Cash and having him in my ear. I

59:22

just had this weird like... Because he was dead?

59:24

And 30 at night, dead. But

59:26

just all the conversations I'd had

59:28

with him before

59:30

he recorded it, I don't

59:33

know, I just, I came out of there and was like, I'm not

59:35

going to make albums anymore. This is, it's

59:38

done. Maybe just not duets with dead people.

59:41

Maybe that's the issue. I actually prefer

59:43

duets with it, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

59:46

They can't complain, it's true. That is not true.

59:48

Well, that's a great, because Tony Bennett just called.

59:50

No. Okay, alright, okay, get

59:53

me one minute. Um, no.

59:55

So, this record, I, there's

59:59

just... Like

1:00:01

the AI things that started it. Reading

1:00:03

about the Beatles and I don't fault them.

1:00:06

But I was conflicted about that. I do fault

1:00:08

them. And then the George Carlin thing

1:00:10

sent me. Yes. I mean

1:00:12

it sent me. No, we're... I

1:00:14

paced. Literally my kids would leave

1:00:16

for school and I'm like what the... What

1:00:19

are we doing here? Have you seen

1:00:21

the Billy Joel, the new Billy Joel song video?

1:00:24

No. Okay. Am I gonna

1:00:26

like, wanna like, go hang myself and then... Why?

1:00:29

Because of that. No, what are we doing now

1:00:31

with AI? You know Billy

1:00:33

Joel came out with his first song in 30 years. Yeah. He

1:00:36

debuted at the Grammys and... And

1:00:38

that wasn't really him, that was AI? No.

1:00:40

No. But for

1:00:42

the video, they have him singing

1:00:44

it as himself now.

1:00:47

But also as him singing this

1:00:49

new song that he only wrote

1:00:51

now when he's 28 and

1:00:53

35 and 42. Okay.

1:00:58

And here's the thing about that. It's terrible. He's

1:01:00

alive. He's... Okay. And

1:01:05

Harrison Ford did that

1:01:07

whole latest... Yeah. Where

1:01:10

they've manipulated his fans to make them

1:01:12

younger, right? And the Irishman, De Niro,

1:01:15

and the age. Yes. And

1:01:17

of course me on social media with lots

1:01:19

of filters, same thing. No, I'm kidding. It's

1:01:24

one thing if you're alive and you're

1:01:26

controlling the image that you're putting out and you

1:01:28

can actually address, yeah, well, you say aye. But

1:01:31

if you're using somebody else and manipulating...

1:01:35

I mean, it's beyond deep fakes where

1:01:37

it's like... I don't

1:01:40

know. I mean, I actually called my attorney

1:01:42

and was like, this is a weird thing.

1:01:44

It's like negotiating real estate in space, which

1:01:46

I know our countries are doing, where

1:01:48

they're deciding who's owning what parts of space,

1:01:50

which I find to be like... For

1:01:54

me, I'm just like, I don't want anything to do. I don't want

1:01:56

my image coming out. I don't want my voice coming out. I don't

1:01:58

want any of my old days. demos

1:02:00

coming out. I want it in writing

1:02:02

for posterity and I

1:02:04

want to walk in something where AI can't get in

1:02:06

there and change my words. You know? What

1:02:08

I think is scariest is

1:02:10

that when you look at the history of like

1:02:13

when the technology comes along and

1:02:15

does something horrible, the

1:02:17

reaction seems to be, what are

1:02:20

you gonna do is technology we can't

1:02:23

do anything about it. Yes. Think about

1:02:25

remember Napster? Napster! Okay. Perfect. So first

1:02:27

the technology comes along. Yeah, we're

1:02:30

gonna steal it now. Except for me and Don

1:02:32

Henley who are on Capitol Hill every 10, like we're

1:02:34

there every Tuesday, like trying to

1:02:36

fight for stuff. And they

1:02:39

sit at subcommittees, they're all saying, well it's already here.

1:02:41

Right. Well you can't do anything about it now.

1:02:43

So they gave up on that, then Spotify

1:02:45

streaming comes in and they gave

1:02:47

up on like the

1:02:50

basic model of business.

1:02:52

Yeah. So

1:02:54

why would I think now that this

1:02:56

technology they're not going to give up

1:02:58

again on somehow guard

1:03:00

railing this shit because... Well

1:03:03

they can't do it now. And for one thing, we're

1:03:05

frogs in the pot. Because...

1:03:07

Yeah. You know that phrase frogs in the pot? Yeah, of

1:03:09

course. Yes. So I

1:03:11

was talking to my kids about it.

1:03:14

I worked with this amazing young songwriter

1:03:16

recently who's written on tons of shit

1:03:19

and she played me a demo. It was

1:03:22

a demo that she had written with a couple of people and

1:03:24

she sang it and she's like I needed a guy to sing

1:03:26

it. So I paid five

1:03:28

dollars and got John Mayer's voice and

1:03:31

she played me the demo and it's John

1:03:33

Mayer's thing. Five dollars? What's the five

1:03:35

dollars? She paid a service. It's

1:03:37

like chat GPT. But instead

1:03:40

you insert somebody's voice and it

1:03:42

replicates his voice like not

1:03:45

only his voice but his

1:03:48

inflections, his style. There is,

1:03:50

I started crying. I was

1:03:53

just like I

1:03:55

know John. There's no way I would not know this

1:03:57

was him. And... But,

1:04:01

and I said, and she was talking about the chat

1:04:03

GBT thing and how she could put stuff in. And

1:04:05

it's not always good, but it gets your brain started

1:04:07

and there's always a couple of good lines. And I

1:04:10

just was like, you're 21. I

1:04:13

know this is what

1:04:15

you're growing up in. I know this is normal

1:04:17

for you. But what is

1:04:19

not normal about it, which you will never

1:04:21

know, is that the thing that

1:04:25

creates art is like, it's

1:04:28

the human experience. It's not a computer's

1:04:30

experience. And that's why I think we

1:04:32

will survive to a degree because

1:04:35

the audience, at some level, they

1:04:37

don't know how to read anymore.

1:04:40

They don't, it's a joke to think they

1:04:42

would get through a whole book, they actually

1:04:44

make jokes about that, a book. Or

1:04:46

a whole song. We don't get paid unless they listen to it for

1:04:48

more than 30 seconds. Yeah, but people do

1:04:50

still listen to whole songs. Bill Maher does.

1:04:53

Most, no, even the kids listen

1:04:56

to songs. I

1:04:58

don't think their attention span is so short that they can't get

1:05:00

to respond if they like it. Yeah,

1:05:02

yeah. Okay. So listen to Zach Bryan song all

1:05:04

the way through. Who? Yeah,

1:05:07

I don't know who that is. Zach Bryan?

1:05:09

Zach Bryan? What do you live in the, yeah.

1:05:11

No, I don't. I just don't.

1:05:14

I mean, I can't explain it to you. He

1:05:16

was in the military, young kid, started

1:05:18

posting songs on TikTok and became massive.

1:05:21

And we went out and opened up for him and it

1:05:23

was like The Beatles. I've never seen anything like it. I've

1:05:26

never, not since The Beatles have I ever seen

1:05:28

anything like it, seriously. Well,

1:05:31

we didn't see The Beatles. We

1:05:33

were too young, even us. Yeah, but

1:05:35

I mean like the footage. 30,000, 40,000 kids with no hits,

1:05:42

singing every word, hanging on his every,

1:05:44

I have to start it, from TikTok.

1:05:47

Well, we'll see in 10 years if he's like The

1:05:49

Beatles. Yeah. Because. From

1:05:51

Young Mouth to God to use. Well, I mean, everybody,

1:05:54

look, music is like you were just saying, it's

1:05:56

so primal. I know. So like,

1:05:58

he's at the first. first one to come out

1:06:00

and look like the Beatles for 10 minutes. They

1:06:05

are who they are because they

1:06:07

grew. They were always

1:06:09

one step ahead of the audience. Maybe

1:06:12

he can. Maybe he's a genius. What do you

1:06:14

think of the music? I'm sorry, you described the

1:06:17

crowd reaction, but what about the music itself?

1:06:19

Yeah, well, I mean, it's a big thing.

1:06:21

It's a big thing. Well, there's a dodge.

1:06:23

Yeah, right. Okay, so you don't

1:06:25

think he's some musical genius? No, no, no,

1:06:27

no. It's not that. I mean, actually,

1:06:30

I mean, truth be told, there's

1:06:33

a whole lane

1:06:35

of music now that sort of falls into

1:06:37

the Americana, but actually it's sort of like

1:06:40

old school country, like Tyler Childress, Zach

1:06:42

Bryan, and they're writing

1:06:44

songs about hard-living

1:06:47

people with real struggles.

1:06:50

Yeah, the guy... And it's three

1:06:52

chords, four chords, and it's good.

1:06:55

It's good. It really is good. It can

1:06:57

be. Yeah. For whatever

1:06:59

reason, it's resonating with 16-year-olds and

1:07:02

20-year-olds and 30-year-olds. And

1:07:05

I'm down with it. I'm here for it. They're

1:07:08

writing stories. It's

1:07:10

not six-second

1:07:12

attention span. We

1:07:15

got to keep the listener in it. It's

1:07:17

like old school verse,

1:07:20

chorus, it only changes a tiny bit. It's

1:07:24

like Americana. Yeah. I

1:07:27

mean, look. No, but I'm

1:07:29

just saying, I don't put any labels on things. A

1:07:31

good song is a good song. I mean, I remember

1:07:34

you did some album. I have it. I

1:07:36

have them all. And it's

1:07:38

like they said it was your country album. Oh, yeah. And

1:07:40

it was like, yeah, I see what they were saying because

1:07:43

they always want to glom on and get some sort

1:07:45

of story so they could make a story. But it was

1:07:47

just a good album. It was just a Sheryl Crow album.

1:07:50

Yeah, there were some songs. They

1:07:52

were geared more towards that. Well, there was

1:07:54

the... Oh, I love it. The one about

1:07:56

the mascara running. Which is

1:07:58

like... I am

1:08:01

waterproof mascara.

1:08:04

But what's the next line? Because

1:08:07

it won't run like his daddy did. Like

1:08:10

his daddy. Which is like

1:08:12

so close to parody. Yeah. Like that's

1:08:14

so close. Yeah, I read that one. Brad

1:08:18

Paisley. He was sitting here.

1:08:20

He was? Yes, loved him. Quite

1:08:23

a great guy. He's one of my

1:08:25

favorite people. He is funny. Yes,

1:08:27

funny. Also, he's not what you think. He

1:08:30

doesn't live in that like... No, but he's

1:08:32

also a guy who's from

1:08:34

that part of the country. Believe

1:08:37

me, there are things that the

1:08:39

woke could find to hate about him. I

1:08:42

love that word woke. I don't. OK,

1:08:45

here's my thing. That is a funny thing that came

1:08:47

out of my conversation with Kid

1:08:50

Rock. I have to call him Bobby. About

1:08:54

being woke. Because he said

1:08:56

you're so woke. And I was like, first

1:08:59

of all, you quit calling me names. And

1:09:01

secondly, maybe I'm woke. I

1:09:05

mean, that was an old term that was

1:09:07

derived from slavery. Well,

1:09:10

after that, I think. But it meant being

1:09:12

alert to injustice. Alert to injustice. I'm

1:09:15

all down with that. I know. It just

1:09:17

morphed into something that was an eye roll.

1:09:20

I didn't do that. They did that. Yes, I

1:09:22

know. And I told him, I was like, I'm so down

1:09:24

with being woke. If it means wanting

1:09:27

this country to run for all of us. Here's

1:09:29

a story that was in the news this week. Somebody

1:09:34

wrote in The Atlantic. He used to work at the

1:09:36

New York Times, talked about New York Times. I

1:09:38

love The Atlantic. I don't know how you feel about it.

1:09:40

But that's one of my go-to's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Write

1:09:42

some comments. It's hard to find fair pieces

1:09:45

written anymore. OK, go ahead.

1:09:47

Exactly. You only get one side of every story. Yeah.

1:09:50

Anyway, go ahead. So he's at the

1:09:52

orientation. Like for the new people

1:09:54

at the New York Times, I think it was. And

1:09:57

for some reason, they're asking going around the

1:09:59

room what do you want for lunch?

1:10:01

And he says, Chick-fil-A. And

1:10:04

they go, like head

1:10:06

of the thing said, no, we don't do that here, they hate

1:10:09

gay people. And

1:10:13

then all the people in the room start

1:10:15

snapping their fingers like they're beatniks in 1950.

1:10:19

Like, you know, yeah, man. It's

1:10:21

like one-eyed story. It's funny. Or

1:10:23

like, um. It's like stupid side story.

1:10:25

Yeah. Like, fuck you, we can't

1:10:27

eat Chick-fil-A. You know what, I will

1:10:29

eat Chick-fil-A and Bud Light. I'll put them together

1:10:31

in a beer can chicken if I fuckin' want.

1:10:33

You can't get me started on this. Because. That

1:10:37

kind of attitude. Yeah. It's

1:10:40

just so obnoxious. I know. And honestly, if

1:10:42

you get me started, my publicist will run in here in a

1:10:44

minute and like, she's gotta go. I

1:10:46

mean, it's dr, it drives me. Why,

1:10:49

I said it. It drives, it drives me. Yeah,

1:10:51

I know, it drives us all crazy. And by

1:10:53

the way, the people, the good people in this

1:10:55

country are with us. It was in the paper

1:10:58

today. Like, the number one concern most

1:11:00

people have is extremism. They fuckin' hate

1:11:02

it. They fuckin' hate. Well, and this is

1:11:05

what worries me, between

1:11:07

you and I. Is that

1:11:09

a pot leaf on that guitar? At

1:11:11

the, on the headstock? It's made of hemp. It

1:11:14

is? Yeah, this was a gift. Okay, you can totally tell

1:11:16

I'm 80-D, right? Because

1:11:18

it's like squirrels, pot leaves. What do you,

1:11:20

I mean, the, Willie, the. No, I was

1:11:22

just saying, I'm really astute. It's like. Oh,

1:11:24

that's amazing. It's an amazing thing. Can

1:11:27

you really play it now? That sounds

1:11:29

really bad. Well, it's not tuned. It's

1:11:31

made out of hemp. Can you smoke it? It

1:11:34

looks like it. The guitar? It would be,

1:11:36

it would be an odd way to re-gift

1:11:38

it. But, you know, yeah, I guess I.

1:11:41

No, you can't smoke hemp. Hemp doesn't get too high. No, you

1:11:43

can't smoke it. You can wear it, though. Yeah.

1:11:46

Now, what I was gonna say is my kids come home with the most unbelievable

1:11:48

questions, right? So I grew up in a

1:11:50

really small town, three stop lights, corn fields.

1:11:53

But we were close to the Bible Air

1:11:55

Force Base. The what? Blighville, Arkansas

1:11:57

Air Force Base. Which was the biggest Air

1:11:59

Force Base. space in America. This is at the

1:12:01

end of, this is like 72, I was 10 years old. I'm

1:12:05

older than you. How old are you? No, I'm 68. Okay.

1:12:08

I'm 62. So, but I'm a

1:12:10

super young, like 36 year old 62. Yes

1:12:13

you are. Who that? I

1:12:16

remember, I don't know if

1:12:18

I came home from school and some kid

1:12:20

who said, yeah, the first place they'll bomb

1:12:22

in America will be blival and will all

1:12:24

be, you know,

1:12:26

incinerated. Well, that's

1:12:28

the only time in my childhood. I remember

1:12:31

ever being afraid. My parents saying ridiculous,

1:12:34

right? Um, which

1:12:37

probably wasn't, but, um, but my kids now

1:12:39

come home with crazy questions. Well, they go to

1:12:41

a Christian school and they

1:12:44

come home with some bizarre questions

1:12:46

that they do. Yes. They come

1:12:48

home with questions that,

1:12:52

you know, their friends are

1:12:55

coming into school with, from hearing

1:12:58

their parents, you know, and this,

1:13:00

this religious support that Trump has

1:13:05

is very perplexing that people in

1:13:07

the Christian world believe that he's

1:13:13

chosen. Literally chosen

1:13:15

by God. Yes. And

1:13:17

who better? Meanwhile, cause we

1:13:20

have many gay people

1:13:23

in our lives and in our family that we love. Um,

1:13:27

and they come home and they just, you know, they're

1:13:29

funny things that are supposed

1:13:33

to be funny jokes, like, um,

1:13:35

about gender. Cause you know, it's this is,

1:13:37

these are the things that trans fighting against

1:13:40

is it's,

1:13:42

it's it's confounding

1:13:45

and it's also as a parent, it's

1:13:47

very, um, all

1:13:51

I can say is when my kid was in

1:13:53

eighth grade, we toured Arlington cemetery, his

1:13:55

eighth grade class. And I walked through that.

1:13:57

I was just thinking, man, these people

1:13:59

that. fought for what the

1:14:01

country's supposed to stand for, for

1:14:04

all people are rolling

1:14:07

right now. I mean, I'm

1:14:11

scratching my head going, we can all live here.

1:14:15

I mean, first of all, I don't

1:14:17

think Trump is specifically fighting gender stuff. I

1:14:19

think he has no compass

1:14:23

at all. So if

1:14:26

people he needs say

1:14:29

something anti-gender that's inappropriate,

1:14:31

like he probably won't slap them down

1:14:33

for it. But I don't think, you

1:14:35

know, he's a libertarian, a

1:14:38

libertine from New York. That's not

1:14:40

his thing. I mean, you know,

1:14:42

he just got out

1:14:44

of a rape trial, for God's

1:14:46

sake, he grabs pussies, you know, the

1:14:48

Melania thing, whatever the fuck that is.

1:14:51

And so I

1:14:53

just don't think that's where people are.

1:14:55

I'm not most worried about him there.

1:14:57

He just came out with his abortion

1:15:00

proposal, which is 16 weeks, which

1:15:02

is about what they have in

1:15:04

Europe. Sometimes I have not seen

1:15:06

that. Yeah, sometimes it's even less than that.

1:15:08

Oh, the Republicans are in, they know they're

1:15:11

in real trouble because they

1:15:13

finally caught the car. The dog

1:15:15

caught the car. They got rid

1:15:17

of abortion rights and Americans fucking

1:15:19

hate it. Men hate it.

1:15:21

Women hate it. Everybody fucking hates kids, I

1:15:24

understand. And they don't want

1:15:26

kids. They don't want to have. And

1:15:28

they really, this is the Democrats best

1:15:30

issue by far. They're worried

1:15:32

Biden's age. That's their worst. Yeah,

1:15:34

their best is, is

1:15:37

this. Yeah, people want someone to fight

1:15:39

for now. They're going after the embryos.

1:15:41

Did you see that in Alabama? I

1:15:44

mean, embryos, like just like the goo

1:15:46

in the Petri dish is an eight

1:15:48

year old. We should

1:15:50

give, if embryos are alive, we should give them

1:15:52

the right to vote. Right to vote. Well, we

1:15:54

don't give eight year olds the right to vote, but we give

1:15:56

them a lot of rights. Yes, yes, yes we do. Were

1:16:00

you a runaway bride all these three times that

1:16:02

you didn't get married, that you

1:16:04

were engaged? My first engagement, I was 21.

1:16:08

I was engaged to a born-again Christian who partied

1:16:10

like it was the end of the

1:16:12

world and then repented the next day. And

1:16:15

he broke it off, which was really good. And

1:16:19

then my second one, I was engaged to a

1:16:21

lovely person I'm still good friends with, but we

1:16:23

actually, by the time we were getting ready to

1:16:25

be married, we were so

1:16:27

platonic that it seemed like, and

1:16:29

then if I was good. That's why I

1:16:31

never did it. Yeah. I mean, most

1:16:33

people I know that are married are not that happy, so I'm like, but

1:16:36

I'm also I

1:16:39

mean, I want to just be with people I like. And

1:16:41

you know, I want to laugh. Sex

1:16:44

would be great, but you

1:16:46

know, only if it's something that

1:16:48

makes me laugh. Right. I mean,

1:16:50

it's trickier for women. You know, you got to have your,

1:16:52

you know, men. Yeah, I want to get pregnant. Well, especially

1:16:55

in a state where I can't get an abortion. But

1:16:57

also emotionally, psychologically, men can, you

1:17:00

know, I think have sex without,

1:17:02

you know, you know, something

1:17:04

being all that serious easier. Yeah. And especially

1:17:06

as you get older. I can have sex

1:17:08

and not care about the person. Yeah, I

1:17:10

guess you can. I'm kidding. I

1:17:12

forgot what I was talking to. I'm kidding. I'm talking to

1:17:14

rock and roll. I'm a rock star, okay? What

1:17:18

do you think is like the most rock and roll

1:17:20

thing you ever did? Like

1:17:23

because... I wouldn't tell you. Really?

1:17:28

Yeah, no, probably not. I mean, I've made

1:17:31

out with a few people. Well, that's

1:17:33

not even that. I'm talking about... Here's

1:17:35

the thing, let me just put it to you like this book.

1:17:39

There is a book in here, but

1:17:42

some people are going to have to die first. And

1:17:46

it might be me. I

1:17:49

might write the book and then... Let

1:17:51

me put it together. Like Rock Hudson, you know, just

1:17:54

put it out. Together with my publisher. Yeah.

1:17:56

He'll take care of the death. I think my publisher is all over

1:17:58

it. You

1:18:00

know, take this down.

1:18:03

Sure. I think you're past

1:18:05

the point where anyone will ever get mad at

1:18:07

you, unless you're... I have to do it quick

1:18:09

though before I start forgetting all of it. It does

1:18:12

start to get... Your mind moves

1:18:14

the furniture. I've

1:18:16

known this because... Well, yeah, because

1:18:18

like I've known this in

1:18:22

a way that's undeniable by reading

1:18:24

over like notebooks or some diary

1:18:27

of something I had. In

1:18:30

my mind, I had like one example, I

1:18:32

had a memory of like this incident which

1:18:34

I would have sworn, I would have sold

1:18:36

the house on it, that it took place

1:18:38

in Washington, DC and it took place in

1:18:40

London. That was the

1:18:42

incident when I read over and somewhere along the

1:18:44

way over the years, my mind moved that from

1:18:46

London... Did you say no? Well,

1:18:48

at the time, I mean, this happened 30

1:18:50

years ago and it was at the time

1:18:53

I was like take... I

1:18:55

did keep like a journal like once. Like every one,

1:18:57

few months I would write down like what happened in

1:18:59

the last three months. I don't know why I was

1:19:01

doing that. I wish I would have done that. Yeah,

1:19:03

no, I was a pretty good caveman. I've

1:19:05

saved a lot of... Heart quiffic. I

1:19:08

mean, look, like see that Dinaros and the

1:19:10

Supremes? Yeah. That's from an album.

1:19:12

Like when they put posters in an album. Like

1:19:16

I saved that. Oh yeah, okay. I was never asked

1:19:18

that. Like that Elvis, see that Elvis one? Yeah. That

1:19:20

was a poster in an album. Oh my gosh. And

1:19:23

they're like, that means

1:19:25

so much more. They're in my Mad

1:19:27

Magazine. Yes, oh Mad Magazine. You know.

1:19:31

Yeah. That was so off

1:19:33

limits when I was a kid. That

1:19:36

and what was the precursor Vanity Fair? What

1:19:42

was the... Lampoon? No. I

1:19:46

feel like Graydon Carter was part of... Oh,

1:19:49

Spy. Spy magazine. Spy, yeah.

1:19:52

Yeah. Yeah, Spy was not like...

1:19:55

Mad was like broad. Mad was broad.

1:19:57

Lampoon was the best. That Lampoon was

1:19:59

truly... brilliant satirical magazine.

1:20:02

And then Spy was Arch. It wasn't

1:20:04

that laugh out loud. No, it was

1:20:07

much more sardonic and much more sort of

1:20:09

literate, not literate, but more intellectual. It

1:20:12

was for mostly Upper East Side New

1:20:14

Yorkers. You know, it was pretty rarefied

1:20:17

there. But they did some great stuff.

1:20:21

And then, yeah, Vanity Fair. People

1:20:23

ask me, like, what's the regret or whatever?

1:20:26

There's one thing I wish I would have

1:20:28

done was to

1:20:30

write one sentence at least every

1:20:32

day. Because journaling to me meant

1:20:36

writing, like,

1:20:39

with a project or a song. It just felt like

1:20:41

work to me. So I never journaled. I mean, on

1:20:43

the odd occasion I would journal. But I would journal

1:20:45

in the context of, oh, I got a record coming

1:20:47

out, you know, or record coming up. I need to

1:20:49

start thinking about what I'm going to write about. But

1:20:51

I went, because I can't remember. And my tour manager and

1:20:53

my manager will bring up stuff and I'll go, I don't

1:20:57

even remember that, you know, just

1:21:00

crazy weird little things along the way. I

1:21:02

see, man. No,

1:21:05

I am always fascinated by

1:21:07

what the mind remembers,

1:21:09

because it seems to be just

1:21:12

absolutely no rhyme or reason. Don't,

1:21:15

don't. What, like you have whole

1:21:17

swaths of time will have disappeared.

1:21:19

But one little thing that

1:21:22

happened one night and it wasn't even significant.

1:21:24

Well, you'll remember. Yeah. My

1:21:27

mom has dementia right now. And that is

1:21:30

the weirdest

1:21:32

thing I've ever seen. I mean,

1:21:35

I've known people, but not somebody as close to

1:21:37

me as my mom is. Because I don't

1:21:39

know you. Yeah. This is, I

1:21:41

mean, it's just weird between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

1:21:44

But what happens is she

1:21:46

is stuck in a moment where

1:21:49

she talks a ton, but it

1:21:51

is, it relates to a specific time

1:21:54

that none of us really understand. She talks about the people

1:21:56

in the group and the group is going to be, we.

1:22:00

I think it has something to do maybe with her

1:22:02

relationship to who she was in our church.

1:22:05

But it's weird, but it always comes

1:22:07

out in that context. And her language,

1:22:09

her vocabulary is really limited to that

1:22:11

specific story. Now, I'm sure it's not that

1:22:14

way with all people who have dementia.

1:22:17

But the brain, it's terrifying. Well, you

1:22:20

know, Glenn Campbell. Yes. Before.

1:22:23

Did you know Glenn? Oh, no. No,

1:22:26

I mean, no, I did not. I mean, uh... No,

1:22:28

I did not. I mean, uh... He's still laughing.

1:22:30

I'm like, oh my God. Were you guys like to... No,

1:22:32

no. I mean, our paths

1:22:35

were very far from crossing. He was on

1:22:37

TV when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah.

1:22:40

He had a TV show. Yeah, back in

1:22:42

the day when they gave singers, like, variety

1:22:44

hours and you had to do sketches. I

1:22:46

know. I was born in the wrong period.

1:22:48

Like, oh, Wichita Lionman. And here comes Yvonne

1:22:50

the Carlisle. Yes. Yeah,

1:22:53

stuff like that. Welcome, Nipsey Riffle. Well,

1:22:55

he was already, you know,

1:22:57

Rhinestone Cowboy. Yeah.

1:22:59

Some... I loved those. That

1:23:01

was when I was first listening to the radio.

1:23:04

Galveston. Yeah. Wichita

1:23:06

Lionman. Gentle on My Mind. Oh, Gentle on My

1:23:08

Mind. Wichita Lionman, that was just one of

1:23:10

the greatest of all time. Gentle on My

1:23:12

Mind, lyrically. Yeah. What a

1:23:14

song. Yeah. I mean, that one is

1:23:16

a killer. Right. Poetry. That

1:23:19

was Jim Webb. Jim Webb, yeah. He

1:23:21

also did... A lot of great stuff. Yeah.

1:23:24

What? It was

1:23:26

the same thing. Amazing. Oh, I thought

1:23:28

you were going to say another guy who tried to... Just,

1:23:31

you know, try to pick me up. No. Why?

1:23:34

You can't blame me on that. No, no, no, no, no. Just

1:23:37

amazing. Like, I literally was like a

1:23:39

student, like, oh my God, I love you so much. Wow.

1:23:42

But anyway, Glenn Campbell would

1:23:45

be like, he doesn't know where he is and who

1:23:48

we're talking to and then you get out on stage

1:23:50

and the song... Film

1:23:52

it. Like, oh, Ryan Stone. Film it.

1:23:54

Film it. Film it. Film

1:23:57

it. Film it. Yeah. When

1:24:00

you hear the song, it triggers something in the

1:24:02

brain that he was able to...

1:24:04

I mean, that's really amazing that somebody in

1:24:06

that case could do a concert. Yes. And

1:24:09

what's weird about it too is to have

1:24:12

it be so rote and then to walk off

1:24:14

and not know. My

1:24:17

mom is an amazing singer and

1:24:19

we grew up singing always. And

1:24:22

last time I was home, I got out the great book,

1:24:24

which is a Reader's Digest great book and

1:24:26

played everything from Alfie to... And

1:24:32

my mom doesn't really stand so much.

1:24:35

She's sitting next to the piano, sitting next

1:24:37

to me on the piano bench and

1:24:39

she's singing just like she always did. And

1:24:42

then she grabs the piano and she stands

1:24:45

up and starts really singing. And

1:24:47

I'm just like, oh, there she is. That's my mom.

1:24:50

She is. Okay. But why Alfie? No.

1:24:53

And then from that, like Burt Bacharach, Larkin

1:24:56

Hammerstein, all the stuff that... Oh,

1:25:00

Burt Bacharach. Oh, I mean,

1:25:02

please. When people... Walk

1:25:05

on by. I mean, she was singing... It's

1:25:07

like everything I played, she knew all the

1:25:09

words. She even sang, Moon River. You know?

1:25:13

Oh, that's... Just like her old self. It's

1:25:15

weird. Music just like... Who wrote

1:25:17

Moon River? Mancini. Mancini. Henry

1:25:20

Mancini. Andy Williams, I think

1:25:22

had the... He did. He

1:25:25

did. He did. But when people

1:25:27

say, you know, three chord rock and

1:25:29

roll, I always think, yeah, I

1:25:31

guess there's some songs that are good

1:25:33

with three chords. But give

1:25:35

me Burt Bacharach, who always has...

1:25:38

Any Day of the Week. Any Day Now,

1:25:40

you mean? Any Day of the Week. Oh, but

1:25:42

the song Any Day Now? Oh, Any Day Now.

1:25:44

No. Yes, he was just saying

1:25:46

it. Yeah. That's my part.

1:25:48

Yes. Any Day Now? Yes.

1:25:51

Covered by Elvis. Any Day Now.

1:25:53

Yes. Okay, as

1:25:55

soon as I walk out of here, I'm going to

1:25:58

go like... Spotify,

1:26:01

Play Me Any Day Now. That's

1:26:03

Bert Bacharach, when it was early. I know. Great

1:26:06

song. Unbelievable. But, always

1:26:08

very unpredictable. And

1:26:13

again, I'm not a musician or anything like that,

1:26:15

but I've seen the charts and it's not three

1:26:17

chords. You want to hear something funny? Or any

1:26:19

chords you ever heard of. I did

1:26:21

a gig where I got to sing,

1:26:25

I got to sing, One

1:26:27

less bell to answer. One less

1:26:29

egg to fry. We should take it on the road.

1:26:31

One less man to look up after. I should be happy, but

1:26:34

all I do is cry. That's

1:26:46

the fifth dimension. Yeah, yes it was. Yes it was.

1:26:49

They were so great. So I got to

1:26:51

sing that and he was playing the

1:26:53

piano, Bert was, and he

1:26:56

stopped and he's like, you

1:27:00

don't want to backphrase, just sing the melody as

1:27:02

it is. And I was just like, yes.

1:27:06

I mean, he was very, not

1:27:08

rude. Right. Just this is the way

1:27:11

the art of the melody is written that way and this is

1:27:13

how it works. And

1:27:15

I got to sing with him after that, but I was

1:27:17

like, he's Bert

1:27:20

Bacharach. Yeah, and he disturbs that. And

1:27:24

I literally was like, I will

1:27:26

not backphrase. I don't even know what that is.

1:27:30

You can't go one,

1:27:32

bell to answer.

1:27:36

Well, I think he made a good call.

1:27:41

I think he made a good call. I got to

1:27:43

say. I don't know. Otherwise, I'd like

1:27:46

to see a whole video of that version

1:27:48

if I could. That

1:27:51

is really crazy. What

1:27:56

are some of the songs that I know

1:27:59

musicians all. like and of course

1:28:01

you are a great cover

1:28:04

of songs. What are some

1:28:06

of the other ones you cover? Oh, Solitaire?

1:28:08

Why do I have that? Yeah, the Carpenters.

1:28:10

Oh, it must have been on the... It

1:28:13

was on the Carpenters. Who wrote

1:28:15

that song? I don't know. I

1:28:18

want to say Paul Williams. You remember that guy? He wrote

1:28:20

a lot of them. Yeah. He wrote a couple of... I think

1:28:22

he did write it. Maybe. He

1:28:24

wrote a couple of those. He was very...

1:28:26

And I'll see another cover we

1:28:28

did was that Eric

1:28:30

Carmen song. Oh,

1:28:33

I think I know what you mean. Eric

1:28:36

Carmen. Yeah, I know. It's

1:28:39

not... Yeah, okay.

1:28:42

It's in there. It's in there. This

1:28:44

is what scares me. You know what

1:28:47

I'm saying? No, no. I mean, honestly,

1:28:49

it's what scares me. Discful. Discful.

1:28:51

There's no shame in not remembering Eric

1:28:53

Carmen. Excuse me, Mr. Carmen. It

1:28:56

was a great record. We loved it. That's why

1:28:58

we remember it so funly.

1:29:00

I felt like... But we don't...

1:29:02

But we can't... Yeah, I can

1:29:04

blame marijuana. What's your excuse? No,

1:29:06

I need to light it up so maybe I'll remember something.

1:29:08

No, but what were you gonna say

1:29:10

about it? Oh, you covered that. Covered it and

1:29:12

it was such a good song. What else did

1:29:14

you cover? Are you covered? I

1:29:17

want you back. Why

1:29:19

do I have that? Was that on a soundtrack or something?

1:29:22

No, that was on 100 Miles of Memphis. Oh,

1:29:25

100... Right. Oh, really? Right, okay.

1:29:27

Twice. 100 Miles of Memphis. I

1:29:33

can remember being a kid and... Did you do that as

1:29:36

a tribute? I just... No, I just...

1:29:38

I did it when we were getting ready to cut

1:29:40

something. And the band was like, oh my gosh, you've

1:29:42

got to put that on the record. I was like... Oh.

1:29:45

And then I did it. This guy, Kid

1:29:47

Rock, I'm back to Kid Rock. Yeah.

1:29:50

His version of Sugar Pie

1:29:52

Honeybuns? Do you know? Oh,

1:29:55

really? No. You don't? On what? I don't

1:29:58

know. His 21st century like

1:30:00

when he first came out I was not

1:30:02

into it. I mean I was never into

1:30:04

the brash personality full on, although I love

1:30:06

him, he was here also. Looks like everybody

1:30:08

who knows. Yeah, I know. My

1:30:11

entire like, Rolodex is here. And he's

1:30:13

a real, like we both, okay he

1:30:15

is who he is. But just

1:30:17

separate that from the music. If we can do

1:30:19

it with Wagner we can do it with Kid Rock.

1:30:22

Yeah. Okay. Wagner, Kid

1:30:24

Rock. Yeah, it's just very similar. And

1:30:26

I'm sure Kid Rock would take that as

1:30:29

a compliment. But

1:30:31

just the music, like there's no, I

1:30:34

love his records. There's no music that

1:30:36

like takes me back to being 16.

1:30:39

That is his genius. Like he has

1:30:41

so many songs where, you know, your

1:30:43

girlfriend's on your shoulders and

1:30:46

you know, you're listening to ACDC or

1:30:48

whatever the references are. And the first

1:30:50

kiss, you know, like he has so

1:30:52

many songs that if you want to

1:30:54

get back into that feeling good, like

1:30:57

that kind of good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:30:59

He is my boy. He

1:31:01

does do that. When I

1:31:03

worked with him on that song Picture, I came home

1:31:05

at Christmas time and I was telling my parents, been

1:31:08

working with this guy named Bobby Richie, Kid

1:31:10

Rock. He's such a nice person, got a

1:31:13

great family a lot like ours. Very close

1:31:15

to his family. And

1:31:18

I said, he's really, you know, huge. He had this song

1:31:20

called Cowboy. Yeah. Like,

1:31:22

oh, we'll play some of his stuff. We'd love to

1:31:24

hear some of it. No, you wouldn't. So

1:31:29

they had a, they bought the

1:31:31

CD and the very last

1:31:33

song, we get almost to the last song and I was like,

1:31:36

that's good. That's all you need to hear. Because the last

1:31:38

song is called Black Pussy, I believe, is what it was

1:31:40

called. Right, I'm sure it was. And

1:31:42

so I did a couple

1:31:44

of gigs with them, one of which was in St.

1:31:47

Louis and my whole family came. And

1:31:50

they watched me play and then they came

1:31:52

backstage and I was like, OK, well, y'all

1:31:54

can go now. No, we want to stay

1:31:56

for some kid rock. And I'm thinking, OK,

1:31:58

dancing, girl. You

1:32:00

know the whole that they enjoy

1:32:04

about four songs I've heard that

1:32:06

his concerts are like Trump rallies. I

1:32:08

mean with these legs and everything, you

1:32:10

know, look again not for me Yeah,

1:32:13

don't get it can't ever

1:32:15

convince you kid rock to

1:32:17

come to my side I know that would

1:32:19

be futile and stupid. So let's just not

1:32:21

talk about what we don't Yeah, you just

1:32:23

do it. You do it all your real

1:32:25

and get a lot exactly That's what I'm

1:32:27

always making that comparison in your family. You

1:32:30

would never ask someone to just not get

1:32:32

their Confederate flag Not be who

1:32:34

they are. Yeah, no, it's true. And the

1:32:37

three most important words in any relationship

1:32:39

are not I love you They're let

1:32:41

it go. Oh Yeah,

1:32:44

I agree with that well, maybe I

1:32:47

oversold that but Let

1:32:49

it go is very important let it

1:32:51

go or maybe forward shut the

1:32:53

fuck up. No, I'm kidding Well,

1:32:56

if you if you're at the place where you have to tell

1:32:58

someone to shut the fuck up, you know That's

1:33:00

one good thing. I feel about getting older

1:33:04

That I learned along the way. It's like

1:33:06

you don't waste time You

1:33:08

know where you can tell where it's

1:33:11

you know, we're going And what could

1:33:14

possibly work and what couldn't and there's no

1:33:16

no use throwing good love after

1:33:18

bad There's another title

1:33:26

Culture vulture you can have them all I would

1:33:29

be a punter It would

1:33:31

be an honor and I guess I should let you go

1:33:33

but God I love hanging out with you, man. I mean

1:33:35

arrow throw rocks We

1:33:39

need to hang out when the cameras aren't on. Okay,

1:33:41

cuz we have many things to talk about and yet

1:33:43

It would be no different with it Actually,

1:33:45

no, it would not be not what I'm trying to

1:33:48

do with the job You know, but I'll do it

1:33:50

with me anything. Maybe a little weed I'm

1:33:53

not singing So

1:34:00

anyway, that was fun. Thanks for having me.

1:34:02

What? You're a

1:34:04

mensch.