0:00

But I did tell him at that time . I said but

0:02

, pastor , the problem I have is it's

0:04

not a worship service . I said I've timed it

0:06

In the whole hour we do of

0:09

the worship service . We only spend

0:11

five minutes of that hour directly

0:14

worshiping or talking

0:16

to God , and so he was

0:18

really good . He said to me OK , then you

0:20

research and find out what we should be doing

0:22

. That was one

0:24

of the best things that ever happened to me , but

0:27

also it sent me right to

0:29

a place where

0:44

I wasn't going to

0:46

end up staying with

0:48

them . Father , how did you

0:51

tell us your story about coming

0:53

to Christianity ? So I

0:55

was fortunate , being born in 1957

0:58

into what was still pretty well

1:00

a Christian culture , being

1:03

raised in the southern part of Idaho

1:05

on a ranch , but however

1:07

, it was a part of Idaho that was

1:09

overwhelmingly Mormon . My

1:12

family we were

1:14

the only family that

1:16

was not LDS , and

1:18

I don't even remember actually going to

1:20

church with

1:23

my family . We would go on holidays

1:25

like Easter . For Christmas

1:27

, we'd go to the closest church we could

1:29

find anywhere . It was a Protestant church

1:31

that was in Lava Hot Springs . There wasn't

1:34

even a Roman Catholic church in

1:36

the area . It was that Mormon . Our

1:39

parents didn't find out that we were attending the

1:41

Mormon church with the other kids until it came to the Christmas

1:43

program and my sister-in-law , I

1:45

, had parts to do . I

1:48

do remember that because I hate getting up front of

1:50

people and speaking , so I was even paranoid

1:52

of that at that time and mom

1:54

and dad allowed us to do that because

1:56

we had committed to it . But I remember

1:58

getting the message that we weren't supposed to go

2:01

after church there anymore

2:03

. And then God , in his sense

2:05

of humor , decided to

2:07

move us from that ranch in southern

2:10

Idaho to south-central Idaho . My

2:13

father unfortunately had an

2:15

accident because he was stacking hay

2:17

, fell off the hay truck and

2:20

injured his back . So we moved

2:22

from off the ranch to

2:24

a small town called

2:26

Mackey . But what was really interesting

2:28

, right across the street from where

2:30

we had the motel , was the

2:34

Mackey Methodist

2:36

Community Church and in fact they ended

2:38

up joining the church . They had

2:41

Tony

2:43

and I baptized at

2:45

the church there . We were baptized in the Methodist

2:47

practice of sprinkling and I remember

2:50

that very , very clearly . And

2:52

I remember going to the church with my folks and

2:55

then , unfortunately , some scandal not

2:57

scandal politics took place , but

2:59

it caused enough of a scandal for my

3:01

folks that they stopped going . But

3:04

Tony and I felt like man , we should go . This

3:07

is what we seek to do . So I think

3:09

God had already put in me

3:11

a heart for the craving of something

3:14

spiritual , for

3:17

the faith , and I really thank God for

3:19

that introduction in the Methodist church

3:21

, for the basic

3:24

emphasis of Christianity it had

3:26

. But in my mind , learning

3:29

the faith through them , and I also went through

3:31

confirmation in the Methodist church . There as

3:34

I continued to grow , the church

3:36

began to shrivel because some

3:39

of the other pastors they started sending in were

3:41

not teaching the same faith . They

3:44

came out of more very liberal seminaries

3:47

and one pastor I remember

3:49

even said at the end of his sermon

3:51

are there any questions ? And then

3:53

he said are there any answers ? And

3:55

of course I'm saying in my young mind that's

3:57

what we're here for , to get from you . And

4:00

it was rather frustrated . I

4:02

was frustrated and more and more

4:04

people dropped out from going to

4:06

the church . All that was left was the little old ladies

4:09

and a few of his kids . I

4:11

do know that my theology

4:13

was still off . I

4:16

was de

4:18

facto a Nestorian , not

4:21

knowing it , but I was a Nestorian . I believe Christ

4:23

was fully God . That wasn't an issue . But I couldn't relate . But it was a historian . I believe Christ was fully God , that wasn't an issue

4:25

. But I couldn't relate to

4:27

him as a human . It didn't

4:29

make any sense to

4:32

me in the sense of him dying on the cross . He's God

4:34

. He can make the pain go away , no

4:36

big deal , all right . So it

4:39

was hard for me to relate to Jesus and

4:42

his humanity and it wasn't

4:44

until my sister went off to college

4:46

and coming back from college she brought

4:49

back this album , jesus Christ Superstar

4:51

, from the play that had just come out , which

4:53

of course is quite

4:55

revolutionary for the time and

4:58

actually , in its depiction of Christ

5:00

, very much heretical

5:03

. It's coming from two secular

5:05

Jews who are very talented . What

5:07

was so amazing is that God

5:10

used that . Now God also used before

5:14

. I listened to that . We

5:16

would watch Billy Graham every now and then on

5:18

TV when you'd have his crusades

5:22

and Dad and Mom

5:25

and I would sit and watch Billy

5:27

Graham and I remember being convicted by

5:29

the things that Billy Graham would be saying about

5:32

wanting to have that personal connection with Christ . I

5:34

felt that I did have a connection somewhat

5:37

in the Methodist Church , but it was something

5:39

that was more given to me . I hadn't made it my own

5:42

, but I was embarrassed to do anything in front

5:45

of my folks . So one time mom

5:47

and dad happened to be out of the room at one point

5:49

when they had the altar call and I remember praying

5:51

, getting on my knees and praying to receive

5:53

Christ at that point . But once again my understanding

5:56

was Christ is fully God . I didn't

5:58

get him as fully man . It wouldn't

6:00

be until God would use something

6:02

like Billy Graham , the Methodist Church

6:04

and , of course , jesus Christ Superstar , which

6:07

is so dealing

6:09

with Jesus as being fully human

6:11

but also realizing

6:13

that he died in his humanity

6:15

, that it wasn't that he made the pain

6:17

go away . He endured all that

6:19

and he did that as God

6:21

for me , and he didn't have to , but he chose

6:24

to do that because he loved me . And

6:26

by the time I was finished listening

6:28

to that album , I was doing a full prostration

6:31

on the floor , because that seemed to be the

6:33

normal position you should be when you're

6:35

just slain by the truth

6:38

of God and what he's trying to do in

6:40

our life , in tears , thanking

6:44

Christ for what he

6:46

had done for me , and that slapped

6:48

me right to the center and made me a little orthodox

6:51

, with a little O . Okay , I

6:53

fully understood Christ

6:55

as fully God and fully man , and

6:57

by this time I had kind of also

7:00

stopped going to church

7:02

as frequently , had dropped out a little bit , also

7:07

stopped going to church as frequently , had dropped out a little

7:09

bit . And that's about the time when the church made its move to drop

7:12

out from the Methodist church and become evangelical

7:14

. About the same time I did and

7:16

then came back with a vengeance and from that

7:18

point on there wasn't

7:21

a Sunday that I wasn't at church

7:23

. It just seemed the thing to

7:25

do . So that was kind of

7:27

my experience growing

7:29

up there in Idaho . And then I

7:32

chose to go to UCLA because

7:35

I wanted to become a medical doctor . I

7:37

thought I could come back and help my community . But

7:40

the first Sunday I wanted to go to church . That's normally what

7:42

you do . So I walked down and there was a Methodist church

7:44

, beautiful Methodist church , and

7:47

unfortunately I got a little frustrated because after

7:49

being there for a few Sundays in a row

7:51

, I only heard Jesus' name mentioned

7:54

about three times , and two of those

7:56

was in Jesus' name . We prayed and

7:58

I thought I've got to go someplace where there's

8:00

more Jesus . It's

8:02

gorgeous , beautiful , but

8:04

I just wasn't hearing enough about Christ . So I

8:06

walked down Wilshire Boulevard to the next

8:08

church that was there , which was St

8:11

James Episcopal Church , and

8:13

came in St James Episcopal Church and

8:15

what I experienced there was something

8:17

that kind of floored me . Also , it helped

8:19

that there was two sweet little old ladies , one

8:22

in the pew in front of me , one in the pew behind

8:24

me , that were friendly to me and

8:26

were trying to help me

8:29

because I was like a fish out of water , coming

8:34

from an evangelical church low Methodist evangelical church to kind of a high Episcopal

8:36

church at that time was

8:39

quite rattling to me . My

8:42

pastor in Idaho said that

8:44

liturgy and sacrament

8:46

were a corruption and perversion

8:49

in the early church and

8:51

of course I had believed that until I started

8:53

taking my classes at UCLA . And at

8:55

UCLA at that time they

8:57

were having us to try to find the truth

9:00

ourselves by looking at the primary sources

9:02

. And for one of the history of

9:05

Christianity classes that I had

9:07

signed up for and then dropped

9:09

very quickly because I didn't like where it was going

9:11

with the professor , but I kept the book , and

9:14

the book was the History of Christianity by Kenneth

9:16

Scott Letourier , wonderful

9:18

, concise history of the

9:21

church , east and West up

9:23

to modern times , written by a guy

9:25

who identifies at the introduction

9:27

as a Baptist and I

9:29

thought well , I can understand , he's a fellow evangelical

9:32

. But he gives credit where credit is due . And

9:34

in his early part of his book

9:36

on the early church he says the early

9:38

church was liturgical and sacramental

9:41

. And that threw me for a spin

9:43

. Now , how is an evangelical is saying

9:45

that ? And I had my own pastor who was an evangelical who

9:47

said that it wasn't . And

9:53

so , in true UCLA fashion and the history department is to look at the primary

9:55

sources . I can read the scriptures myself and

9:58

we can all read the scriptures and have a debate

10:00

and argument as to what they mean . But

10:02

what did it mean to the generation of

10:04

Christians ? That it was written to second generation

10:06

Christians ? And so that's when I started reading some

10:09

of the church fathers , as I , I was taught

10:11

you look up the primary sources . I started

10:13

reading what St

10:15

Ignatius of Antioch had to say about the Eucharist

10:18

and that just floored me . I realized

10:20

, yeah , kenneth

10:23

Scott Latourier was correct , the early church was

10:25

liturgical , it was sacramental , and

10:28

I actually ended up joining the Episcopal Church there

10:30

. I was very happy with the community there . But

10:33

there were some other things going on in the Episcopal

10:35

Church some of the ethical and moral

10:37

things that were very disturbing

10:40

to me and after having

10:42

kind of an unfortunate experience

10:45

in confrontation with somebody there

10:47

, I opted to

10:49

leave the Episcopal

10:52

Church there and go back to find an

10:54

evangelical church that was close by . And that's

10:56

when I went to the University Bible Church . But

10:59

unfortunately it lacked the liturgy

11:02

when they would have a

11:16

midweek liturgy . And

11:18

I did that for a period of time . And

11:21

it's interesting later on what I would do OCF come

11:23

back to Los Angeles for

11:25

my ministry , I would end up doing Orthodox

11:29

Christian Fellowship in that very chapel . Then

11:32

, when I finished up , I went back to my

11:34

hometown in Mackey , idaho

11:36

, and I realized , oh , that's

11:38

not where I want to be . I

11:44

really believed God was seeking to lead me that way , without coming

11:46

down from heaven and saying this

11:48

is what I want you to do . But he was guiding me through

11:51

that circumstance . But I was trying to be faithful , to figure

11:53

out what is the will of

11:55

God but also what's the desire of my heart . And

11:57

the desire of my heart was not to be running

11:59

an electric co-op

12:01

utility there , for the , as

12:04

important as that was , it was the most important job

12:06

in that town . I

12:08

could have been making the best living of anybody in that town

12:10

. I could have been making the best living of anybody in that town , but that's just not

12:12

what I was called for . And so I

12:15

knew that if I was to say no to this job , I needed

12:17

to get active in searching out teaching

12:19

jobs . So when I started searching out

12:21

teaching jobs , I said no to the job . Then

12:24

I got help from other people with placement

12:26

centers . I was getting listings

12:29

of teaching jobs from five

12:32

different universities , including my own

12:34

, and that was at a time when there

12:36

was a glut of teachers and there was nothing

12:38

available and I would get something

12:40

in . Send out a letter . They immediately gave

12:42

me a response saying sorry , we've already filled

12:44

the position . So finally , in

12:48

about the second year of working there in

12:50

Mackey in the store , I

12:53

decided I need to go down and

12:55

interview . I love the Russian Orthodox

12:57

proverb that says pray to God

13:00

but row to shore , that

13:02

we do our rowing

13:04

as much as we can to get out of that lake

13:06

when the storm clouds are coming up , but

13:08

we have to pray continually to God that he

13:10

would help us to make it to

13:12

the shore . And so I

13:14

went in and spent a whole day at

13:16

the placement center and I was trying to be really

13:19

gracious with the gal who was working there asking

13:21

for all the listings that they had , looking

13:23

at everything . I even looked at foreign

13:25

placements . I looked at Pakistan . I looked at Pakistan

13:28

. I looked at India . Same

13:30

problem

13:32

, though catch-22

13:35

. In order to get a job there , you had to have

13:37

three years teaching experience . I had

13:39

no teaching experience . I

13:45

can't get a job unless I have teaching experience , but I don't have it . So how can I get a job and how

13:47

can I get the experience ? So I go back

13:49

to Mackey rather

13:51

disappointed , feeling like I had

13:54

done this work and that there was no fruit

13:56

to it . Once again , we don't know what

13:58

happens when we do those efforts . It may

14:00

not be the exact time

14:04

at

14:07

work from Page

14:10

, arizona , and it was from

14:12

the assistant principal there

14:14

at the middle

14:16

school who was saying we

14:20

pulled your file at the placement

14:22

center at UCLA and we'd like to interview you for

14:24

a teaching job . So I didn't know anything about

14:27

Page , I'd never been there . When

14:29

people get out there and see how isolated it

14:31

, people who had accepted job quit

14:33

because their family freaked and they

14:35

left them in a lurch , having to scramble to find

14:37

a teacher . But what ended up happening

14:40

is they didn't know how isolated I

14:42

was all up in Mackey already . I

14:44

don't know how this is gonna happen . Oh me , a little faith , I

14:47

mean . God really opened a path and

14:49

when I went down there and I interviewed with them , by

14:53

the end of the day they offered me the

14:55

job and it's the last place I thought

14:57

I would be able to go . I'm totally

14:59

away from family . There were a lot

15:01

of good churches that were there , but

15:05

it was very isolated . A story that I didn't

15:07

mention before is that at UCLA

15:10

I studied a lot academically about

15:12

the Orthodox Church . So

15:15

I had an evangelical faith . I had an appreciation of liturgy and

15:17

sacrament from the Episcopal Church , but

15:20

I knew academically about the Orthodox Church . I

15:23

also took the art history of

15:25

early Christian art and the

15:27

Byzantine art history classes . All

15:30

my focus of the upper division classes

15:32

were in the East , the Orthodox

15:34

East , and so all my

15:36

research papers except for one dealing

15:39

with the Bogle Mill heresy , all of

15:41

them were dealing with the Orthodox Church in some

15:43

way or shape . So academically it was all

15:45

there . It was amazing when I went to go back and look

15:47

over those papers I couldn't believe . I

15:49

mean , god was just so preparing me step

15:52

after step after step after step , and

15:54

so I had this incredible understanding

15:57

of the Orthodox . Academically

15:59

, I could appreciate the Orthodox

16:01

for their adherence

16:03

to the faith and the practice through great

16:06

persecution . I could

16:08

read about the martyrdom and I

16:10

had no idea that these people had suffered

16:12

terribly , even

16:14

during the Crusades . The first Crusades were

16:17

devastating . The first people to be victims

16:19

of the first Crusades from the West were

16:21

the Orthodox and the Balkans Appreciation

16:23

of them academically and

16:25

admiration for them and even my own

16:28

devotion At home

16:30

. I even started

16:32

getting my own icons , having my own icons

16:34

made and setting up a chapel

16:37

, actually a closet . I cleaned everything out and made

16:39

it into a prayer closet . I would

16:41

use some of the censer and a prayer

16:43

book from the Episcopal church I had . But

16:46

I remember feeling

16:48

that that seemed so much closer

16:50

to the authentic way that the early

16:53

Christians from what I knew from my church history from

16:55

UCLA . So all those studies were very helpful for

16:57

me . And he would make the sign of the cross

16:59

the way the Orthodox did , because

17:01

I felt there was probably the older way of doing

17:04

it , the more original because all these other things seem

17:06

to be as well too . But I didn't quite understand

17:08

the Orthodox . I kind of thought

17:10

their theology seemed

17:13

to be and yes , it was different . There

17:15

was a huge different emphasis between

17:18

the West and the East . And I

17:21

just thought , well , maybe it's because the Orthodox , you know they've

17:23

been sniffing incense too long , you

17:25

know it's clouded their brains and their thinking

17:27

, and because I didn't quite understand

17:29

what is this . Did you go in to join

17:32

God before his heavenly throne and the worship comes

17:34

into this place ? It sounds kind

17:36

of like I don't know Dune

17:39

, where you're kind of folding space

17:41

in the liturgy . And

17:44

I actually , at UCLA , a

17:46

good friend of mine , craig Stevens , took

17:48

me to the

17:51

First Orthodox Liturgy , which was a Pascha service

17:53

at Agia Sophia , the biggest Orthodox liturgy , which was a Pascha service at Agia Sophia

17:55

, the biggest Orthodox church there in

17:58

Los Angeles , the Greek Orthodox cathedral . It

18:00

was all in Greek . The

18:02

buckets in front of me and the pews were Greek

18:05

and phonetic Greek , so I had no idea what they were doing . It

18:07

looked beautiful , it looked majestic . I

18:13

learned the Christos Aneste in order to be able to say the response , because it was done

18:15

so many times and we were

18:17

there at the very beginning before the church filled

18:19

up and we were there at the very end . It

18:21

was an amazing experience . It was such a great experience that I

18:23

took a group of my fellow UCI

18:27

students Christian students there the next

18:29

year . I said you got to experience this

18:31

. It's amazing , right , but I had no understanding

18:34

of what it was because it was locked up because of the language

18:36

. I had this growing sense and

18:38

appreciation of the Orthodox Church and

18:40

had incorporated some of those things in my own

18:42

private prayer practice . And

18:45

then , as I was there at

18:47

Page , arizona , I got involved with the Conservative

18:50

Baptist Church there of Page

18:52

, a wonderful church community and

18:54

the pastor there . He was probably

18:57

one of the best pastors I've ever had , one

18:59

of the easiest ones to be able to talk , to talk

19:01

to him about anything . I learned

19:03

a lot from him . I was happy to serve

19:05

teaching church school . I was in

19:07

the choir . They had me singing solos

19:09

like I was back in

19:11

Mackey at the Mackey Community

19:13

Church . It was stuff I didn't want to sing

19:15

. It was so schmaltzy I didn't

19:18

like it . But I did it out of obedience

19:20

because they had asked me

19:22

to do so and

19:24

of course I don't like to hit them in front of people . That's

19:26

another reason . And then , finally , they had asked me

19:28

to help lead the evening worship

19:31

service . And that's

19:33

one

19:35

of the straws that broke

19:38

my camel's evangelical back , because

19:41

that was when the pastor

19:43

said we want you to lead

19:45

this evening worship service and

19:48

take over it , which was great , because they're

19:51

trying to entrust me with something that's very important . It's not the main

19:53

service anymore . I wouldn't be preaching , I

19:55

would just be leading the

19:58

worship . But I did tell them at that time . I said

20:00

but , pastor , the problem

20:02

I have is it's not a worship service . I said

20:04

I've timed it . In the whole hour we

20:06

do of the worship service

20:08

, we only spend five minutes

20:11

of that hour directly worshiping

20:14

or talking to God . We

20:16

talk about God , so it's an evangelical

20:19

service , it's a witnessing service , a testimonial

20:22

service , but it's not

20:24

really talking to God . We

20:26

talk about what God has done for us . And

20:28

so he was really good . He

20:31

said to me well , okay , then you research

20:33

and find out what we should be doing . That

20:36

was one of the best things that ever happened to me

20:38

. But

20:44

also it sent me right to a place where I wasn't going to end up

20:46

staying with them , because I started getting books at the time from

20:49

Moody Press , from Multnomah Press Worship

20:51

, old and New Worship , the Missing Jewel . I'm

20:53

reading these things . As I'm reading these

20:56

things , what worship should be ? A man called

20:58

Weber who , I believe , left

21:00

the Evangelical Church when the Episcopal

21:03

Church . I hope to God he gets his way into the Orthodox

21:05

Church before he reposes . I've got

21:07

the books back there in my office

21:09

and everything I'm reading everything's

21:11

connecting together . It's all connecting together . I'm going . Everything's connecting

21:13

together , it's all connecting together . I'm going

21:16

. Oh , I see what they're saying

21:18

what worship should be biblically

21:20

, what it should be in the Old Testament , what it should

21:22

be in the New Testament , what it should be in the history

21:24

, what it should be theologically and

21:29

everything that it's saying what worship should be in these evangelical

21:31

Protestant renewal worship books

21:33

is pointing me to

21:35

the Orthodox Church because of what I had

21:37

studied at UCLA and at the

21:39

same time , coinciding

21:44

with my quandary

21:46

about this . I

21:48

in the Arizona Republic picked

21:51

up the religion section and

21:55

it told me about this evangelical Orthodox

21:57

group throughout

21:59

the country in the United States , based in

22:02

Goleta and instead of Arbor

22:04

now st Athanasius was the mother church

22:06

back at the time that they were coming

22:08

in canonically to the

22:11

Orthodox Church and then

22:13

the bishop Peter Gilquist , of

22:16

blessed memory . He was

22:18

visiting there in Phoenix at

22:20

St George's Antiochian Orthodox

22:23

Church and did an interview with the Arizona Republic

22:25

about their coming in and this was quite

22:27

phenomenal . The people go from evangelicalism

22:30

to Orthodoxy . It's like a 180-degree

22:33

change . And it's

22:35

like I've got to get to know these people , because

22:37

I remember even at one point praying

22:39

to God . I felt so torn between

22:41

what I

22:44

was trying to do in the worship services

22:46

at the Conservative Baptist Church

22:48

, what I felt we should be doing by

22:50

what I knew and had studied

22:52

from before , and what we were actually

22:55

doing , and I remember crying out to God , god , I

22:57

wish there were an evangelical Orthodox church

22:59

, and of course I didn't know that they really existed

23:01

and they're actually coming into the Orthodox church , and

23:03

so I contacted them . They got back

23:06

immediately with a letter setting up a visit for

23:08

me over my Christmas break to go

23:10

, and I actually stayed in

23:12

some of their homes . Some of

23:14

them are clergy now

23:17

and it was at the

23:20

first liturgy that was ever

23:22

done in English that they did . They

23:24

weren't canonically in the Orthodox Church at that time

23:26

. They were using the music that was the

23:29

Protestant hymns , but

23:31

with all the Orthodox words . So like joyful

23:33

, joyful , we adore . Thee was the hymn

23:35

to the Theotokos they were using with the words to

23:37

the Magnificat , and

23:40

so it was music I could sing along

23:42

with , but they were all doing it in English and

23:44

they were all participating and

23:46

I was to me . All

23:48

the lights went on , and what it reminded

23:50

me of is my history when

23:53

the envoys of Saint Vladimir

23:56

went to Constantinople . But

23:58

it was the liturgy and the people's participation

24:00

that just all everything

24:02

came together . It was just like an experience

24:05

of the Holy Spirit . I went up to then

24:08

Bishop Peter Gilquist and one

24:11

of the few times words come out of my mouth which I

24:13

had no control over , I said what can I do to

24:15

promote this church ? And

24:18

he was so good and humble . He said , well , we're just trying to

24:20

get our foundations on straight ourselves

24:23

. And so , sure enough , when

24:25

I got back , I

24:27

be lying down to St George Antiochian

24:30

Orthodox Church in Phoenix , and

24:32

so I'd go back up to Page

24:35

and it was a five-hour trip

24:37

one way , and there would be some

24:39

time , some months . I would be there every

24:42

weekend . I just like

24:45

this is the fullness of faith . I can't

24:47

go back to where I was before , even

24:50

though the church I was involved with in

24:52

Page , arizona , was the

24:54

most with it church

24:57

, the things they were doing , great ministries

25:00

, wonderful people . But

25:02

it's just like I had tasted of

25:04

the heavenly banquet of God . All

25:07

the lights came on and even though

25:09

I wasn't really illumined , I felt there

25:11

was a spiritual illumination and sense of knowing

25:14

the truth here . I couldn't go back to

25:16

what was there before . It was like bread and

25:18

water , and when I have the heavenly banquet

25:20

, or bread and water , I feel like I've

25:22

got so much to learn . So

25:24

I talked to Father Anthony and he brought me

25:26

in to the Orthodox Church

25:28

there at Phoenix and that's

25:30

kind of then where God put

25:33

on my heart that you know , if you really want to

25:35

do more , if I really want to live up to those

25:37

words that I said to you

25:39

know , peter Gilchrist , what can I do

25:41

to promote this church ? God was

25:43

putting on my heart to actually go off to seminary

25:46

.