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2:49

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2:51

and. You

2:54

might know just he travels Ferguson

2:56

of Broadway or maybe the hit

2:58

Tv sitcom Modern Family. But recently

3:00

Jersey has found. Second call.

3:04

Their stories from Passover, Seder with Joan

3:06

Rivers and why he always makes his

3:08

peach pie with one special ingredient. Listen,

3:10

every time I've made the supply people

3:12

lose their own for is that all

3:15

I can say for us in the

3:17

kitchen was just the Tyler Ferguson that's

3:19

coming up later on the show. The

3:23

first were playing with our food Susanna,

3:25

Guard, Meyer and your Gun Burleigh Cove

3:27

It's or two members of the Vienna

3:29

Vegetable or to stuff. Instead

3:33

of foods, violence, and drums, they'd

3:35

prefer parents, leaks and tomato. Sauce

3:40

is from The Orchestra's album on the

3:43

North. Susana

3:47

Juergen Welcome to Maastricht. Hello

3:49

hello hello Chris. Cillizza.

3:51

The beginning. Could you explain? The.

3:54

Basic concept of what is a

3:56

vegetable orchestra. Oh. well

3:58

and we We restrict ourselves

4:01

to playing music on instruments

4:03

built out of vegetables. And

4:06

we do that since 26 years. Our

4:10

concert day looks quite different to

4:12

other orchestras or bands. In

4:15

the morning we get our vegetables and

4:17

then it takes a few hours to

4:20

build all the instruments because our aim

4:22

is to build as much instruments of

4:24

fresh vegetables as we can. And

4:27

afterwards we have to do a soundcheck and

4:29

the soundcheck is also something that takes quite

4:31

a long time because we attend people on

4:33

stage. Then we have

4:35

our concert in the evening and

4:38

after the concert we serve soup

4:40

but we don't serve the soup

4:42

of the instruments. We cook the

4:44

soup during the whole process, during

4:46

the day with

4:48

fresh vegetables. The audience comes on

4:52

stage or just to the stage and

4:54

we serve the soup and

4:56

talk with them and that's always a

4:58

nice ending. So

5:01

I read that you've created over

5:03

150 different types of instruments. So

5:07

just explain the League violin to people

5:09

because I think people have a hard

5:12

time understanding that concept. Well,

5:14

it might have happened that you have a

5:16

sack full of leek and they will

5:19

rub against each other and

5:21

they will make some squeaking sounds. But

5:26

if you put a little bit of water on the leek

5:29

you can really play a very

5:31

nice squeaking sound. It

5:33

can get melody like a little bit.

5:45

If we need a pumpkin that

5:47

has to sound just right they

5:49

will go back to the storeroom 20 times

5:51

until they find the right one. Part

5:54

of the process is

5:56

selecting just the right vegetable.

6:00

the right lakes, just the right pumpkin to get

6:02

the sound you want? Yes, sure. I mean,

6:05

the pumpkin, for example, the

6:07

best it sounds when it already starts

6:09

to rot inside a little bit because

6:11

then it has a little bit of a hole and

6:14

it's like it has a perfect sound body

6:16

for the base sound. How

6:25

do you... I looked at your

6:27

website in your Q&A section and one of the

6:29

questions was how long does it take to prepare

6:31

a vegetable instrument? You noted

6:34

that it took zero minutes to prepare the

6:36

tomato. What do you do with the tomato?

6:39

The tomato was our

6:41

first instrument and there is one

6:43

composition that is called our tomato

6:47

and we put two

6:49

tomatoes together. How do you say that?

6:52

We clap our

6:54

hands but we have tomatoes

6:57

in our hands. Yeah,

6:59

and the sound changes very much in the

7:01

time from very dry to

7:04

very juicy. So

7:17

are these mostly

7:20

percussion-like sounds? In

7:22

other words, if you made

7:25

a flute out of a carrot, for example,

7:27

or a carrot xylophone or

7:29

a radish bass flute, could

7:32

you actually create individual

7:34

notes that could be part

7:36

of a composition? Well,

7:39

relatively. We can play very

7:42

short melodies and things like

7:44

that and we can

7:46

tune them. We can tune carrot

7:48

xylophones, for instance, pretty exactly.

7:50

That doesn't mean that they will sound

7:52

like that one hour later because one

7:54

of the problems with carrots is that

7:57

they dry out and while they

7:59

dry out. They change the

8:01

pitches, but when you build a

8:03

carrot flute, for instance, you

8:05

can play it more or less like a

8:07

flute or a recorder, and

8:10

also other instruments have the

8:12

possibility to play little melodies

8:14

and little tones. We

8:21

did this piece. It's half

8:23

of the people are playing flutes, and

8:26

the other people are playing instruments that

8:28

we call frogs. The

8:31

sound the frogs make. Oh, the

8:33

croaking of frogs. Croaking. Yeah.

8:36

So it really depends

8:38

on the vegetables that

8:40

we have, which one happens to

8:43

work best for the croaking sound. For

8:45

example, it can be partially wrapped

8:47

together, it can make a very special

8:49

sound, also quite deep, and

8:52

this whoop, whoop, whoop, like a

8:54

frog. Would

9:05

you say that what you

9:07

do is inspired by any particular period

9:09

of Austrian art or musical genre? Yes,

9:11

for sure. On

9:15

one hand, most of the people

9:17

in the orchestra, in one or

9:19

the other way, come from artistic

9:21

fields that dealt with avant-gardish

9:23

approaches and approaches

9:25

how experimental music is made

9:27

and the history of experimental

9:30

music. So I think most

9:32

of us would agree that one

9:34

approach is music concrete because

9:36

that is something that's very obvious in

9:38

our way, that we just use more

9:41

or less the idea of everyday

9:43

sounds in our day, everyday objects,

9:47

like vegetables, and just to try to build

9:49

music out of that. That's for

9:51

sure one approach. And I think

9:53

another approach, simply due to

9:56

the fact that we just started around,

9:59

In the end of the night, These and in

10:01

the end of the nineties, abstract

10:03

electronic music became very popular. Because

10:05

some laptops were affordable on the

10:08

lot of people started to produce

10:10

very strange digital and electronic sounds

10:13

and that is also something that

10:15

inspired us to try that but

10:17

not with digital mean but buy

10:20

organic meat. And also

10:22

since we're in Austria and living

10:24

and yeah, not all of us,

10:26

we have this very big orchestral

10:28

tradition here. and that's actually how

10:30

we. Started it was like a

10:32

comment on a classic orchestra to

10:35

come On State's Witness and then

10:37

it developed from their studio. Ever

10:39

sit there during a performance and

10:41

think to yourself. I've

10:43

always people came here and paid to listen.

10:46

To. Us play vegetables. He

10:49

is it Just a wonderful feeling once

10:51

in awhile to think they're you live

10:53

in a world where you can have

10:55

a vegetable orchestra? or is it? is

10:57

it just something you do. In

11:00

my case, I'm all this extremely

11:02

happy because I see that a

11:04

lot of different people come to

11:06

our concerts young old and also

11:08

a lot of people who have

11:11

very different musical tastes. Yet there's

11:13

a very nice moment that happens

11:15

at very many concerts. People

11:18

can't imagine how it is because they

11:20

read the vegetable extra something that you

11:22

would think it's a comedy. So the

11:24

come there with the wish to be

11:27

entertained. and to last they decide to

11:29

laugh when we play because it's gonna

11:31

be funny and then they. Realize. Oh,

11:33

it's not funny. They really needed

11:35

serious. And that's a very

11:37

nice moments when people start to listen

11:40

and wasn't start to take it serious

11:42

as music. Susana you're going!

11:44

This was fabulous. I need to attend

11:46

would hear concert Thank you so much

11:49

yet I thank you very much. Yeah

11:51

thank you for having us disgrace. amazon

11:56

a guard meyer and you're gonna go a

11:58

coverage of the piano vet Now

12:04

it's time to answer your baking questions with

12:06

our special guest host Cheryl Day. Cheryl

12:09

is the author of Cheryl Day's Treasury

12:11

of Southern Baking. So

12:14

Chris, I know we talked about making

12:16

pizza a while back, and

12:18

I'd love to hear how that's going. Are

12:20

you still making pizza? Yes, I am

12:23

still making pizza, and the kids sometimes eat

12:25

it. I

12:27

have one of those little propane

12:30

outdoor pizza ovens. Which

12:32

I love. Griff just got one of those.

12:34

They get up to like a thousand degrees

12:37

or something. It's a little tricky

12:39

though. I found you have to get hot enough so

12:41

it bubbles up like

12:43

it would in Naples or something. Right. But

12:46

not so hot that it ends up burning the

12:48

outside before the inside's cooked. My

12:51

favorite is raclette cheese, which is grated

12:54

with some prosciutto. It's

12:56

really good. The other one I like is seasoned

12:59

beef or lamb cooked in a skillet

13:02

briefly and then put that on top

13:04

and then finish it when it comes out of the oven

13:06

with arugula. Have you tried

13:08

making anything else in that oven? That's

13:10

something we're playing around with. I have.

13:13

I've done tomatoes and peppers and just a

13:15

whole mass of them. Put

13:17

them in a 9x13 in there

13:19

and cooked them and then took them out and chopped

13:22

them up and put them with some olive oil and salt

13:25

and used that as a dip or whatever.

13:27

That was great because everything got really charred.

13:30

We're playing around with pie

13:32

galettes in ours right now. So

13:35

I'll let you know how that turns out. That's

13:38

a good idea because you get the top. If you don't

13:40

cover the fruit with the size of the galette you get

13:42

a really nice caramelization break.

13:45

Right. Yeah. That's

13:47

a good idea. Well everything in cooking is

13:49

helpful. That's true. That's true. Thank you. I'll

13:52

give you the calls. Welcome to Milk Street is Calling. This

13:54

is Danielle. Hi Danielle. Thank you guys for taking my

13:57

call. to

14:00

solve this for at least five years.

14:02

Okay. So I made a lemon buttermilk

14:04

pound cake and I made

14:07

it when I was at my mother-in-law's house

14:09

in Cleveland, I live in Texas. She

14:11

has an old house, old oven, but

14:14

I have not been able to recreate the

14:17

beautiful cake that I created

14:19

there. What I really loved about the pound

14:21

cake is the really

14:24

dense grandmother's kind of pound

14:26

cake with a little bit of the caramelized

14:28

crust on the top, moist,

14:31

and I remember I used more eggs than

14:33

I usually use in a cake. So

14:35

somewhere between six and 10, but

14:38

I don't remember all of

14:40

the things that went into making that

14:42

beautiful cake. Do

14:44

you remember what kind of flour

14:47

you used? I

14:49

might've used cake baking flour. I

14:52

can't remember. That's the problem. I

14:55

do recall sifting the flour. I

14:57

do recall letting my ingredients

14:59

come to room temperature so the eggs and

15:01

butter were sitting out. And

15:04

I don't know if that made the

15:06

biggest difference. It does make

15:08

a difference. Temperature definitely matters.

15:11

Well, I don't know how to

15:13

recreate what you made exactly, but

15:15

I do have a great recipe

15:17

for pound cake. I

15:20

am a Southern baker myself and

15:23

I make old-fashioned cakes

15:26

that I think you would definitely like.

15:28

So the one that I would recommend,

15:31

it's the cold oven pound cake.

15:34

It's a very traditional, I would

15:36

say pound cake, but it's very forgiving.

15:39

It has your usual ingredients,

15:41

lots of butter, sugar, baking

15:44

powder, salt, vanilla. It's very

15:47

versatile. You can use different

15:49

types of milk. You

15:51

could do a lemon syrup on

15:54

top. You could make a glaze. And

15:56

the cool thing about it is, is

15:58

that you mix it. All

16:00

of your ingredients are room

16:02

temp and you mix it where everything's

16:04

light and fluffy. Then you pour it into

16:07

your bundt pan and then

16:09

what you do is you put it in the

16:11

oven and it's not

16:13

preheated. And then

16:15

you turn the oven on when

16:18

you put it in the oven. So

16:21

it's called cold oven pound cake. That

16:24

recipe is over a hundred years old.

16:26

My grandmother used to make it and

16:28

I swear by it. But the

16:30

great thing is, is what happens is it's a

16:33

slow rise. It

16:35

doesn't dry out because everything starts to

16:38

work all at the same time and

16:40

it rises and it gets a nice

16:42

crust on top. That would

16:44

be my recommendation. What do you think, Chris? Do

16:47

you have something you love? You

16:49

might try cake flour,

16:52

which absorbs liquid a little differently than all purpose,

16:54

but a cake flour in

16:56

a pound cake will lighten it a little bit. But I

16:59

think you like the dense. I like the dense. It

17:02

reminds me of my grandmother's pound cake. Right.

17:04

Chris and I have talked about this

17:07

a lot on the show. It

17:09

is important room temperature ingredients,

17:12

the eggs especially, and also

17:14

how you incorporate the eggs,

17:17

making sure that the

17:19

ingredients are mixing. Grandma did not rush

17:21

when she was making this cake. Not

17:23

like how we do today. Each

17:26

egg 20 seconds. The one egg

17:28

at a time. One egg at a time and

17:30

that makes a huge difference. The other thing

17:32

would be to make sure that with your

17:34

bundt pan, make sure that

17:36

you're buttering it, coating it

17:38

lightly in flour. And then also

17:41

when it's time to turn it out of the pan,

17:43

don't wait for it to be completely

17:45

cooled because otherwise you'll

17:47

be making a trifle out of

17:49

that cake. I've done that. Oh, I

17:51

didn't know that. Which is not a bad thing. Pound

17:54

cake trifle. That's right. So the

17:56

other question that I had was what two other

17:58

questions. mixer and then

18:01

also I never know which

18:03

attachment to use with my KitchenAid for cakes.

18:05

Is it the one that looks like a

18:07

beater or is it the one that looks like

18:09

a paddle? Paddle. Paddle. Usually

18:12

for egg whites you want to beat a lot

18:14

of air into something but if

18:16

you want to do a cake batter that's

18:18

usually the paddle. And speed medium

18:20

to high when you're creaming your butter.

18:23

The most important step is when you're

18:25

creaming the butter and sugar together because

18:27

you want to make sure that you're

18:30

aerating all of the ingredients. You're you

18:32

know making sure that everything is dissolved properly

18:35

and you don't have clumps of butter

18:37

and then you're going to want to take

18:39

your spatula. I tell you I give you

18:41

every step in that recipe

18:43

and I'm sure we'll be happy to give

18:45

you that recipe. And

18:48

then just follow it and then you can

18:50

make it your own after you master it.

18:52

Well thank you guys so much for

18:54

answering my question. You've given me

18:56

a wealth of wonderful tips today. Oh great.

18:58

Thanks for calling. Good luck with it. Have

19:01

a good one. You too. Take care. This

19:04

is Milk Street Radio. If you have a baking mystery

19:06

please give us a ring. The number is 855-426-9843. One

19:11

more time 855-426-9843 or simply email us at questions

19:14

at milkstreetradio.com. Welcome

19:22

to Milk Street is calling. Hi this

19:24

is Lauren calling from San Francisco. Hi

19:27

Lauren. How can we help you today? Well

19:30

I've been making a Mindy Siegel recipe for

19:32

shortbread for years. It's a Fleur de Sel

19:34

shortbread that you do a sandwich cookie with

19:36

a hull of a buttercream. They're amazing but

19:38

it's a huge chore to roll out shortbread

19:41

and cut it, let it chill and that

19:43

process just feels exhausting and it's so messy

19:45

and it's my favorite cookie but for that

19:47

reason I am almost never

19:49

making it. So I've always wondered are all

19:52

shortbread recipes created equal and that I can

19:54

just do a log and slice and bake

19:56

or do you really have to roll out

19:58

certain That's

20:01

a great question. Are they

20:03

are created equal? Probably not.

20:06

What? I would say. That

20:08

it's It's a shortbread cookie recipe.

20:10

You should be able to roll

20:12

and slice. That. Would. No

20:15

problem with them and then that way.

20:17

The only thing is we doing different

20:19

shapes or something like that are not

20:21

really. Yeah, I usually just do

20:23

a square. to keep it simple. I don't

20:25

have a ton of cookie cutters. So.

20:27

You can do a square, he can actually roll

20:29

it and then just kind of see the i

20:31

pad it. Flat. On the

20:34

surface. Go. Around eats.

20:36

Way. It doesn't have to be round,

20:38

isn't just kind of flatten the bottom. And.

20:41

Then he can slice it square

20:43

or eat and also slice it.

20:45

Rounds. And. I don't

20:47

think you'll have any problem with

20:49

that recipe. I just you will

20:51

log. You know when they're easy to manage

20:53

in the cut out individual rounds supreme would

20:55

be kind of a pain to roll out.

20:58

Women can say sort of because know you

21:00

have to reward take the scraps the gonna

21:02

get too high to get a put the

21:04

refrigerator but the log would be the. By.

21:07

Far the easiest solution. I

21:09

also scoop shortbread cookies. Oh

21:11

interesting. Do. With an ice creams?

21:13

Absolutely. And then I have like a

21:16

little stay up. You. Know that I

21:18

stamped the tops. Whether you could take like

21:20

the back of a that's a good idea

21:22

will think he is us. Or Uk take

21:24

the back of a measuring cup or something. But

21:26

I did have was we have a cute little

21:28

cookie stamps that all. Depends. Sugar

21:30

and then stamps. A top and

21:32

it makes excessive totally. I have a

21:35

stamp a wooden one for making mobile

21:37

cookies. oh yeah in turkey and it's

21:39

really fun and he looks great an

21:41

easy and it's either me that would

21:44

be easier then. yeah. Slicing personally

21:46

perfect. Well I'll give both of

21:48

those the try other the sly

21:50

in this group approach. Ah A.

21:52

D. Make a lot of cookies more and.

21:55

I. Do and I'm sometimes sipping thanks to

21:57

friends. This recipe though. every time I've made

22:00

it, I have friends. I made these for

22:02

maybe seven years ago and they keep talking

22:04

about them, but they're such a headache so

22:06

I'm excited to try it. With.

22:08

A short time while I hope that works

22:10

let us know and you so much and

22:12

would send a child rights or income all

22:14

in more you. Welcome. To

22:16

most reduce going. I. This is

22:19

Julie has a real. I'm. So

22:21

excited to hear your voice! Hi

22:24

Julie! we're excited! For your

22:26

question. I have a question

22:28

about key lime pie and lemon

22:30

lime pie. I am

22:33

actually in the process of

22:35

writing a cook book. Signing

22:37

congratulations thank you so much!

22:39

It's something! My family has

22:41

been what he on together

22:43

for a couple of years

22:45

and. We're. Just really having a great

22:48

time with it. I. Was at.

22:50

This wonderful restaurant and. Qr code:

22:52

blue heaven. And.

22:54

The shuster their. Makes.

22:57

A mile high, Lemon.

22:59

Meringue Pie. The reason

23:02

why of mile high as because her

23:04

morag. Isn't very high

23:06

and very fluffy? And

23:08

this chef was very gracious and

23:10

said. That she makes it with

23:13

her hands. That's. How she

23:15

gets from the rain so high. Though.

23:18

I have experimented a couple times

23:21

using my hands and I have

23:23

not gotten my morale to be.

23:26

Mile. High. And. I thought

23:28

maybe you guys that have an idea I have. An

23:30

idea but so is not a full

23:32

disclosure when asked us. The first of

23:34

all, when you make i'm running for

23:36

pie, are you starting with sugar syrup?

23:39

I. Use a white cream of

23:41

tartar and sugar. okay well

23:43

if you want to get some rang

23:45

that's a great texture and stick around

23:48

you need to use sugar syrup so

23:50

you'd have the egg whites and will

23:52

cream of tartar probably little salt and

23:55

then you would start whipping them and

23:57

then meanwhile you do a sugar serbs

23:59

you melt the sugar.

24:01

A lot of recipes say over 240 degrees. I use

24:03

238 or 239 and then you

24:07

drizzle that syrup over the

24:09

egg whites that are mostly beaten already.

24:12

You sometimes have to beat them for four or five

24:14

minutes until they cool down and that'll

24:17

give you a great sort of Italian meringue.

24:19

The other trick is, I've used sometimes, is

24:21

I do make a cornstarch gel with

24:24

water and cornstarch and also mix that into

24:26

the egg whites. A lot of

24:28

people do that for cake frostings. They have a cornstarch

24:30

base and that'll also give you better

24:32

texture and make it hold better but it's all

24:34

about a hot sugar syrup

24:37

drizzled into beaten egg whites.

24:39

That's how you get that texture and that's

24:41

how it will not fall apart after a couple

24:44

hours. Cheryl, is that sort of

24:46

in the ballpark? And here she comes. Don't

24:50

listen to anything Chris just said. So

24:54

I don't have that much time on my hands

24:56

to do all

24:58

of that. There's a couple of kinds of

25:00

meringue I like to make though. My first

25:02

question is, is her meringue, is it like

25:05

an Italian meringue type where you would torch

25:07

it at the end or is it the

25:09

billowy kind that's softer that you

25:12

would bake in the oven? I

25:14

don't know. I have only ever made

25:16

the kind that you bake in the

25:18

oven. Maybe that's one of the things

25:20

I'm doing wrong. That's my preference

25:22

too but I'm guessing

25:25

that that's not what she does.

25:28

She's probably doing more of a marshmallowy

25:30

kind of like the type that Chris

25:32

is talking about but how

25:34

I achieve that is I do my

25:37

sugar, my cream of tartar,

25:39

and my egg whites and I put

25:41

those in a metal mixing

25:44

bowl over a

25:46

double boiler and then I'll

25:48

whisk that. I do that until

25:51

the sugar is dissolved. Then

25:54

I'll start to whisk that in the mixer

25:56

until it cools down and it is coming

25:58

out of the bowl. Just. Really

26:01

Really? Tall. And

26:03

then you just can pile but on t

26:05

you're filling. And then torch

26:07

it. Maybe. What she means

26:09

by your hands as sees piling is.

26:13

It a secret kind of the using her

26:15

fingers maybe the get like a really. Fun!

26:18

Texture. And. Then that

26:20

message. He would torture it. She may

26:22

have meant that she was sued by hand

26:24

and a double boiler like men a lotta

26:27

things up the he at and stuff like

26:29

that or of it wasn't very useful now

26:31

response. But now that the. Matter of

26:33

the I'm pretty sure that diseases to

26:35

get a really tall because the way

26:37

that you make it that sea bass

26:39

it in the of then. That's

26:42

a softer texture merengue. You're

26:44

not going to get it mile high. Oh

26:47

thank you All Live Schwab! I'm gonna make

26:49

a couple a key lime pie that we

26:52

can tell Now I'll let you guys

26:54

know how they be. I'll report back. I

26:56

hope that was helpful. It was extremely helpful.

26:58

Thank. You on the ledge. Well thanks

27:01

for com. Pleasant. Thing silly

27:03

they feel. You

27:07

listening to Milk Free radio? As

27:10

Intel of Ferguson shares his most memorable

27:12

meal like Passover Seder with Joan Rivers

27:14

that's coming up. And first let me

27:17

tell you a little bit about this

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up for Camp Crunch Labs

28:16

Today That's Crunch slabs.com/millstream. This.

28:25

Is mostly radio. I'm your host Christopher

28:27

Kimball. You might know my next guest

28:29

Jesse Tyler Ferguson. or for playing Mitchell

28:31

Pritchett on the long running sitcom Modern

28:33

Family. Here's. The scene from

28:35

Season One or Mitchell and is

28:38

Husband Cameron played by Eric Stonestreet.

28:40

Go To Costco. This I found

28:42

the diapers for Over Here Cameron

28:44

to Fly Found Coffins or Baby

28:46

Formula Amazon Coffins You can literally

28:48

by everything you need from birth

28:51

to death on my. Just

28:54

a Gel or Ferguson also loves

28:56

food and cooking. A few years

28:58

ago he Kuroda Cookbook Food between

29:00

friends with recipe developer Julie Tennis

29:03

and in two thousand and twenty

29:05

three he launched a podcast where

29:07

he visits restaurants with some of

29:10

the biggest names in entertainment, politics,

29:12

sports and food. He shared meals

29:14

with Bryan Cranston, Marcus Samuelsson, Margo

29:16

Martindale, and Padma Lakshmi. The podcast

29:19

is called Dinners on Me. Just.

29:22

Say walk to most streets. Thank you

29:24

thank you Chris Saw you had I

29:26

have to say an amazing career Had

29:28

television show you want to Tony and.

29:30

Twenty. Twenty two for you were

29:32

and take me out, but you

29:34

obviously also love to cook. For.

29:37

You, it's It's really more than a hobby, right?

29:39

Oh gosh, I mean, I er,

29:42

I. admire i'm people in

29:44

the corner world is so so

29:46

much i've had the esteemed honor

29:48

of hosting the james beard awards

29:50

or twice and i have never

29:53

been more nervous about doing a

29:55

good job for a group of

29:57

people i i just have such

30:00

respect for all these chefs I

30:02

admire and cookbook authors and you

30:06

know I I think I would if

30:08

I had had time when I was younger I would

30:10

have I would have taken myself to culinary school and

30:12

you know it's still my fallback plan if things started

30:14

to dry up over here so

30:18

tell me about Fully Committed this is a one-man

30:20

show yeah you performed on Broadway back in 2016

30:22

I mean it's really a challenge you

30:29

got 40 characters how do

30:31

you get the different characters the

30:33

voices the body mannerisms and

30:35

then obviously you have to switch back and forth quickly

30:38

yeah how do you prepare for it you know how

30:40

do you do it well it was incredibly

30:42

intimidating when I was asked to look at this

30:44

play it's a play that had already been

30:46

done before it was done off-Broadway and

30:48

they were gonna do a Broadway revival

30:51

of it I think about 20 years

30:53

after the original and they asked me

30:55

to play this role and I just

30:57

for a little subtext the character is

30:59

a head reservationist at a very very

31:01

fancy high-end restaurant and he shows

31:04

his work this one day and his co-worker

31:06

has called in sick and

31:08

so he's manning the phone lines by

31:10

himself and the joy

31:12

of the play is watching him not

31:15

only play the reservationist but then also play

31:17

the people on the other side of the

31:19

phone call trying to get a reservation so

31:22

he plays the chef that he's calling into

31:24

he plays the maître d he plays the

31:26

hostess he plays his father at one point

31:28

who's calling him in on a cell phone

31:30

so it's just having this really chaotic day

31:32

at work and he's manning this phone line

31:34

and it's all done on a telephone so

31:36

it's really fun to just sort of watch

31:38

an actor juggle all

31:40

of these different tasks fortunately

31:43

when I was asked to do this I

31:45

had about nine or ten months before

31:47

I was actually gonna have to be on stage doing

31:49

it so I started learning the play immediately because it's

31:52

just it's all it's all me

31:54

there's no one else on stage to and

31:56

it's not even like a long monologue it's me

31:59

and dialogue with myself as

32:01

different characters. So it's, you know, it

32:04

was quite a challenge. And I

32:06

actually did not understand how this

32:08

play was doable. And

32:11

fortunately, the archives

32:13

at Lincoln Center Library record

32:15

a lot of these performances. And so I watched

32:17

Marc Setlock, who was the original actor who did

32:19

it off Broadway. And I was like, oh, that's

32:21

how it's done. So I sort

32:23

of had a bit of a blueprint and

32:26

a great director that I worked with. And then the biggest

32:28

thing that really helped me was I worked with

32:30

a dialect coach from Juilliard,

32:33

Kate Wilson. And she helped

32:35

me figure out the different voices and

32:37

accents of these different people. The maitre

32:39

d' was French and, you know, the

32:42

chef was sort of like a California

32:45

dude. And, you know, it was

32:47

sort of like leaning into these stereotypes and it

32:49

ended up being really fun. It was a huge

32:51

change. Okay,

32:54

turning to food. You

32:56

have a love affair with hatch green chilies. So

32:59

you want to explain to me, I mean, I

33:01

like them too, but you really like them. How

33:03

come you love them so much? Well,

33:06

I was raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I

33:08

was born in Montana, but then moved to

33:10

New Mexico pretty early in my youth and,

33:13

you know, they're indigenous to the

33:15

area. And it's more

33:17

than just the taste of a hatch green

33:19

chili. It's also the season when

33:22

they're harvested and roasted and

33:25

the way that it makes the air smell, you know,

33:27

there'd be certain areas of town where, you know, they'd

33:29

be roasting the chilies outside and you could just, you

33:31

could smell it in the air. And

33:34

then I ended up working at a pretty

33:36

famous New Mexican restaurant called

33:38

Sadie's. And, you

33:40

know, they put green chili on

33:42

almost everything. So I just, I

33:45

was immersed in it. And, you

33:47

know, I think it could

33:49

have gone two ways. I could have been so sick of it

33:51

because I was, you know,

33:53

living it day and night, but I really

33:56

loved the flavor and

33:58

the heat of it. I love. the season

34:00

when it was harvested. I just have

34:02

a great affinity toward it. You

34:05

talk about your dream dinner guests, Adele,

34:09

Michelle Obama, but Joan Rivers. I

34:13

loved Joan Rivers. So tell me why you

34:15

love Joan Rivers. Well,

34:18

I always admired her comedy. I always admired

34:21

the risks she took in her comedy. I

34:24

love that kind of comedy that goes right up

34:26

to the line of inappropriate and sometimes even crosses

34:28

over it a little bit. So the toe kind

34:30

of goes right over it. I don't

34:32

know. I just feel like there's something really safe.

34:35

Comedy is not interesting to me. I like

34:37

being kind of nervous and like, Oh my

34:39

God, I shouldn't be laughing at that. That's

34:41

the stuff that just really makes me laugh.

34:45

I had met Melissa Rivers, her daughter at

34:47

an event and obviously told Melissa.

34:49

I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, I'm such

34:51

a fan of your

34:53

moms. And Melissa went home

34:55

and told her mom that she had met

34:57

me and it was right around Passover.

35:00

And so I got a

35:02

text message from Melissa saying, my mom wants to

35:04

know if you want to join us for Passover

35:06

dinner. And Justin and

35:09

I were like, um, absolutely.

35:11

We're not Jewish, but we will

35:13

absolutely be there. And

35:15

that was our first time meeting Joan.

35:18

And it was just a

35:20

dream night. I mean, like it was everything about it was

35:22

just so perfect and wonderful. And

35:24

we felt so special being there. And

35:27

we developed a bit of a friendship

35:29

with her. And I'm so grateful that

35:31

our lives intersected for a little while.

35:33

So there's a chili

35:36

recipe in your cookbook and there's a

35:38

photo of you sitting outside eating the

35:40

chili from a thermos. You

35:43

said, uh, when you were a kid,

35:45

you and your dad would go out looking for a Christmas tree.

35:48

And during the first 10 minutes, you

35:50

would find the perfect one and then

35:52

spend hours dropping around. But chili was

35:54

always part of that adventure. Yeah,

35:57

my mom would always make this chili for

35:59

us. and we would take it Christmas

36:02

tree hunting, like, you know, you could buy a

36:04

permit for like $5 and go

36:06

into the woods and cut down a tree and

36:08

bring it home. And my dad

36:10

really liked to make a day out of it. And like,

36:12

it was a family thing. And, you know, it was me

36:14

and my siblings usually, and it was his day with us.

36:17

And the thing is we would, we'd find

36:19

a really perfect cute tree in the first

36:22

10 minutes. And, you know, he doesn't

36:24

want to chop down a tree and turn around and go

36:26

home. No, he wants to spend the day with us. So

36:28

he would, you know, like we'd put a marker on it,

36:30

like usually a stick in the ground, and then, you

36:32

know, continue to walk around. And of

36:34

course, by the time

36:37

we were ready to leave, we can't find

36:39

the original tree and we're scrambling and we're

36:41

looking for anything to cut down to take

36:43

home. And yeah, usually it

36:45

was like some misshapen bush that

36:47

ended up being our tree. Yeah,

36:50

I did a couple of years going out in the

36:52

woods with a chainsaw and they

36:54

didn't look very good. So

36:57

pancakes and waffles, and we talked about those,

37:00

you use blue cornmeal in your pancakes,

37:02

buckwheat waffles. Do

37:04

you find, and I noticed with the blue cornmeal pancakes,

37:07

I think there wasn't any regular flour, it was all

37:09

blue cornmeal. Do they get a

37:11

little dense or do you like mixing it up with

37:13

regular flour or what's the, what

37:15

do you like? I mean, I've done it both ways. They're

37:18

more of like a flapjack when they're

37:20

done with just the blue cornmeal. I

37:24

just really love the way that the edges get

37:26

super crispy. Yeah, they are, they can

37:28

be, I wouldn't call it, dense seems like such a

37:31

negative adjective

37:33

of flapjacky. Yeah,

37:36

we find, most of the way we've been using

37:39

rye a lot because it's got

37:41

a bitterness to it, which I think

37:43

works well with something sweet. Buckwheats,

37:46

I like buckwheat too. So

37:49

rosemary peach pie, people

37:51

putting herbs like rosemary with fruit like

37:53

peaches. I get it,

37:55

but on the other hand, I kind of sometimes when

37:57

people do that, I'm going like, maybe.

38:00

you shouldn't have put the rosemary in the piece.

38:02

It's definitely an aggressive herb. How do you

38:04

think about doing that? Well,

38:07

rosemary and peaches actually do kind of go together,

38:09

I have to say. Yeah, they're

38:11

great. Listen, every time I've made

38:13

this pie, people lose their

38:16

mind for it. So that's all I can say, Chris.

38:19

I don't go overboard on the rosemary. But

38:23

yeah, I like it. I think it's great. You

38:25

have the weight of data on your side. So

38:28

let's just chat about cauliflower. I

38:30

know on our social media, every

38:33

single time we post a cauliflower

38:35

recipe, preferably a roasted whole head

38:37

of some kind with dripping tahini.

38:39

Horris-a or something. People

38:41

go nuts and we get sometimes a million

38:44

views. Have you had it with

38:46

cauliflower yet or are you getting close? I'm

38:48

about out. I've

38:50

had it with cauliflower. And I know I

38:52

have a cauliflower recipe in my cookbook and

38:54

it's good. It's one of those

38:57

things that you really have to figure out how

38:59

to dress it up. And

39:02

I think we've found something that worked really

39:04

well that we hadn't really experienced before. But

39:07

I have to be honest, if I'm at a

39:09

restaurant and there's a cauliflower or a broccolini, I'm

39:11

always going to do the broccolini. I've

39:13

actually enjoyed some cauliflower mash. Sometimes

39:17

my husband decides to eat paleo, so I create

39:20

some pretty delicious cauliflower

39:22

mashes. But it's all about what you

39:24

add to it. What about restaurants? You

39:26

talk in the book about some of your favorite restaurants.

39:29

I have obviously strong

39:31

opinions about this. But when you

39:33

walk into a restaurant, what is it in the

39:36

first couple of minutes that strikes you

39:38

as being either great or not so great?

39:42

I mean, I'm big on ambiance and lighting. If

39:46

you can start there, then I'm at

39:48

least relaxed and ready for a nice

39:50

meal. I hate brightly lit

39:53

spaces and super loud spaces.

39:55

I like to be able to have conversations.

39:57

Obviously, I literally have a podcast where I'm

39:59

taking... People are having opposition's over dinner

40:01

so I like feel to to fellowship with

40:03

people. A quiz to stop you there. I

40:06

cannot agree more. I mean I went out

40:08

with an old friend of mine was week

40:10

I'm ice We sat down and was very

40:12

early. Servers you people there and I said

40:15

you know I really love restaurants. We can

40:17

actually hear the person speaking in half an

40:19

hour later I couldn't hear half of what

40:21

he said he gives of yeah noisy what?

40:23

Why do restaurants or what you think restaurants

40:26

do that Because it's I don't think it's

40:28

a mistake. I think they think. That annoys

40:30

the restaurant, makes you feel popular. something I

40:32

know homeowners to live as part of it

40:34

and sometimes is appropriate. I don't know like

40:37

I like going to pass these in New

40:39

York City. First Sunday brunch and having like

40:41

it's obviously in the and he now the

40:43

table rock and a close together and he

40:45

can overhear other people's conversations. That's doesn't the

40:48

kind of nice about that I'm but I've

40:50

been to the restaurant I feel like I'm

40:52

literally and a club and I I can't

40:54

hear anything. And. Then the waiter comes

40:56

over to have on the how am I

40:58

supposed to your you like I mean what

41:01

what's going on I'm assaulted. Is a

41:03

quote I read an article. If.

41:05

You're at a restaurant sitting anywhere near

41:07

Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Chances. Are

41:09

high that he'll be eased dropping on your offered

41:12

her? Yeah so is that through the really like

41:14

he is dropping while other people ordered dinner. I

41:17

do and that's part of what I lie. Also

41:19

love about the My Podcast as you get to

41:21

hear the way to come over until the specials

41:24

and and you know we get we discuss what

41:26

we might want to eat but are dislikes are

41:28

what it we like what we might share. All

41:30

of that stuff is a stuff I love. the

41:33

other people talk about when I'm at restaurants and

41:35

I love to. Also I do that thing where

41:37

I scanned the restaurant I see smells good night

41:39

and figure out what that is on the menu

41:42

and see if that's something I might like. You

41:44

know it's ah obviously we even our eyes first.

41:46

So. I'm. You

41:48

know I think that the presentation of food

41:50

is really important and night it's to being

41:52

presented other people around you. I wouldn't you

41:54

like. Just

41:57

you thank you. It's spend us soil been fond.

41:59

It's been a play. you're having on the show.

42:01

Thank you so much. Thanks Chris, appreciate it. That

42:05

was Jesse Tyler Ferguson, actor and host

42:07

of the podcast Dinners on Me. Actors

42:11

want to be cooks and cooks always want

42:14

to be actors. There seems to be a

42:16

natural affinity between the two professions. But

42:18

what about actors who started in a

42:21

totally different place? Brad Pitt

42:23

was the mascot for the restaurant chain El

42:25

Pollo Loco and dressed up, believe it or

42:27

not, as a giant chicken. And

42:29

Whoopi Goldberg was once a makeup artist for

42:32

a funeral. One might

42:34

conclude that actors are good at playing many different

42:36

parts, wearing a kitchen apron or even

42:38

a giant chicken suit. You're

42:46

listening to Milk Street Radio, coming up the

42:48

language of grilling from our friends at A

42:50

Way With Words. That's right up. You

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Christopher Kimball and this is Milk Street Radio. I'm

45:58

joined now by J.M. Hirsch. to talk about

46:01

this week's recipe, Citrus Marinated Pork

46:03

Tacos. Jay, I'm how are you? I'm

46:06

great. So we're talking Mexico

46:08

City. We're talking pork tacos. I've

46:10

had them on the street. Pretty

46:13

straightforward, you know, onions, cilantro

46:15

topping, couple hot sauces. But

46:18

you had something I think a little more interesting than I did. Yeah,

46:21

but first I have to tell you, I've been

46:23

unorthodox when it comes to my tacos. I

46:25

actually don't care about the meat in the

46:28

taco. I know that's heresy. I'm

46:30

a toppings guy. And so I care

46:33

about the avocado, the tortilla, the pickled

46:35

red onions, the pickled jalapenos, everything else

46:37

that you pile onto your taco. The

46:40

meat to me is secondary. However,

46:42

when I was in Mexico City, I

46:45

worked with a home cooked, 80 Gonzales,

46:47

who is from the Yucatan, and she

46:49

told me she was going to teach

46:51

me a pork taco that would make

46:53

me forget toppings even exist. And

46:56

I have to confess, she

46:58

succeeded. It was really, really

47:00

phenomenal. Now, the magic here

47:02

is the sauce, as it always is.

47:05

So she takes thinly sliced

47:07

chips of pork loin and

47:10

sloshes them about in a mix of

47:13

sour orange juice, garlic,

47:15

cilantro, cumin, and allspice.

47:17

I mean, that is a heady bunch

47:20

of seasonings. And that sour orange

47:22

juice, of course, is key because

47:24

it's very flavorful, very bright. It

47:27

also tenderizes. She slaps

47:29

out on the grill, pulls it off in

47:31

no time, throws it onto

47:33

a fresh tortilla. And oh

47:36

my gosh, I didn't even want the

47:38

avocado. It was so good. It was

47:40

just really, really breathtakingly good. So sour

47:42

orange juice not being something at your

47:44

average supermarket. Is this just orange juice

47:46

and vinegar? Is that how you get

47:48

there? We use a combination of lime

47:50

juice, orange juice, and a little white

47:52

vinegar. It approximates it. It comes pretty

47:54

close. Never going to be the same,

47:56

but it's awfully good. It's very thin

47:59

strips of meat. You don't have to let

48:01

it sit too long before you cook it. Yeah, about

48:03

30 minutes is plenty. But you

48:05

know, it's not just the marination that

48:07

matters. It's also, as you know from

48:09

your time in Mexico, the cooking because

48:12

charring is a flavor unto itself in

48:14

Mexican cooking and something we don't tend

48:16

to think about or appreciate nearly as

48:18

much as Mexican cooks do. And

48:20

so getting a really good charr on

48:23

these pieces of pork matters a lot

48:25

because boy, it adds that depth of

48:27

flavor that's wonderful. And again, it all

48:29

happens so quickly because it's very thinly sliced. And

48:32

so it's not a lot of work, but boy

48:34

does it have a lot of flavor. You know,

48:36

and I was there, there are two things that

48:38

surprised me. One was a lot of people bought

48:40

a stack of tortillas from a local guy that

48:42

would actually deliver them and they were

48:44

delicious. The other was I figured like

48:46

taco parties is a very American kind

48:48

of thing. And I asked her

48:51

about, she said, oh yeah, every Friday night we have people over,

48:53

we have a bunch of toppings, we have a taco party. So

48:55

I guess some things are the

48:57

same in Mexico as they are here. So

49:00

how did she actually cook the meat? Is this in

49:02

a skillet? Is this barbecue? So she

49:04

used a Kamal on the grill, lovely.

49:07

To make up for that here and make it a little

49:09

easier on ourselves. We broil it because that's the easiest way

49:11

for us to ensure that we're gonna get that sort of

49:13

char that we want and that the flavor really appreciates. Jim,

49:17

thank you. Citrus marinated pork tacos

49:20

you had in Mexico city, but the recipes

49:22

from the Yucatan. And it's so

49:24

good, even you did not ask

49:26

for toppings, thanks. Thank you. You

49:30

can get the recipe for citrus

49:32

marinated pork tacos from Yucatan at

49:34

milksreetradio.com. This

49:39

is Milk Street Radio. Now let's check in with

49:41

our friends Grant Barrett and Martha Barnett of Away

49:43

with Words. Grant, Martha,

49:45

what's going on? Hi, Chris. Hey,

49:48

Chris. Well, you know,

49:50

Chris, you're always grilling us about

49:52

this and that. And we figured

49:54

today we'd talk about grilling food

49:56

specifically, grilling from a linguistic

49:58

point of view. Okay. So

50:00

let's start with the word grill itself.

50:04

Grill comes from a big family

50:06

of words, all of which involve

50:08

the image of a grate. Now

50:10

that's G-R-A-T-E, grate, that's designed to

50:13

let heat and air pass through.

50:16

And grill itself goes all the

50:18

way back to the Latin word

50:20

cratis, which means wicker work. Now

50:23

you may be wondering, why wicker? I am.

50:26

Before we cooked food on metal

50:28

over fire, we cooked on structures

50:30

made of woven reeds. And

50:33

the diminutive of this Latin

50:35

word cratis is craticulum, which

50:37

means little wicker work. And

50:39

over hundreds and hundreds of

50:42

years, craticulum became French creel

50:44

and then moved on into

50:46

English as grill. So

50:48

it took hundreds of years for people to figure

50:50

out that if you cooked over wicker, it burned

50:53

up. I mean,

50:55

this just didn't work out too well. I

50:57

guess you could smoke over wicker, but you

50:59

were. But also, it doesn't have to be

51:01

right over the hottest part of the fire.

51:03

That's true. And you're thinking

51:05

about long-term use. You can quickly weave

51:07

something out of reeds, and it has

51:09

one or two uses, and that's just

51:11

fine. The disposable grill. Yeah,

51:14

disposable grill. That same grill, by

51:16

the way, gave

51:18

us grid-ing, our I-D-I-R-O-N.

51:22

It's a platform for cooking made of iron

51:24

and other metal. It's got parallel bars and

51:26

a frame, and it's got these little stubby

51:28

legs. And you set it up over the

51:30

open flame and put your food on top of it. And

51:33

it is indeed the same one as

51:36

in football. I know

51:38

that everyone's always wondered that. If you go

51:40

up into the stands and look down and

51:42

you look at those chalk lines on

51:44

a football field, it looks like the

51:46

grid iron. It's got those same parallel

51:48

lines. So that term has been used

51:50

in that way since the

51:52

19th century. Yeah, or the people looking down have

51:54

had four beers and are dreaming about Barbie. Or

51:56

five. I think that makes sense. And

52:01

Chris, that's not all. There are

52:03

two other relevant words we should

52:05

talk about from that same linguistic

52:07

family, because also related to grille

52:09

is griddle. And of course, that's

52:11

the piece of metal that you

52:13

use for heating food, and lots

52:15

of griddles have parallel lines running

52:17

along their length. And

52:19

then there's also the shortened version

52:21

grid, which is an arrangement of

52:23

parallel intersecting lines. So we have

52:26

the electrical grid that you're either

52:28

on or you're off. We have

52:30

the traffic jam called grid lock.

52:32

So grid lock, griddle, grid iron,

52:34

and grille, they're all connected by

52:37

the same ancient route. Grid

52:39

lock, by the way, was coined specifically about

52:41

traffic in New York City. Did you know

52:43

that? Really? Yeah. And now it's spread everywhere.

52:45

Unfortunately. Yeah. And so I don't want to

52:48

get all up in your grill with this

52:50

stuff, Chris, because we could go on and

52:52

on with this. That grill, by the way,

52:54

refers to your face looking like the grille

52:56

of a car, especially if you have braces

52:59

or decorative jewelry on your teeth. Up in

53:01

someone's grill. Okay. And speaking of

53:03

frameworks, there's another framework for grilling.

53:05

There is also the word

53:08

barbecue, which comes originally from a

53:11

language of the Caribbean, where people

53:13

used a kind of wooden frame

53:15

to cook that way. And

53:17

a barbecoa, right? Yes. Yes. Yes.

53:20

Exactly. The Spaniards adopted that as

53:22

barbecoa. We adopted it as barbecue.

53:24

And they also use, in Jamaica, when

53:26

they do the jerk chicken, they

53:29

use pimento wood. I think that's what

53:31

it is. And they put the wood,

53:33

which is maybe a foot

53:35

or eight inches in diameter, over

53:38

hot coals, and they cook on top of

53:40

the wood. So the chicken

53:42

is cooked right on the wood. Oh, yeah.

53:44

Yeah. That's really common. And that leads me

53:46

to this other thing. So a lot of

53:48

people, we use charcoal briquettes when we cook,

53:50

but that charcoal briquette is kind of this

53:52

little emological story. So a

53:55

lot of our cooking involves that char

53:57

flavor, the char in

53:59

charcoal. probably doesn't actually come from

54:01

anything having to do with carbon or

54:04

char but actually probably comes from an old English

54:06

word meaning to turn especially in

54:08

the sense of transform and of

54:11

course the coal just means coal because it's

54:13

always meant coal back as far as history

54:15

goes and briquette is a French word for

54:17

a little brick so it's like charcoal briquette

54:19

is this little story that means little brick

54:22

of coal that turns into something else which

54:26

I think is very cute and it's a

54:28

little story but there are a lot of

54:30

things that turn when we make food on the

54:32

grill right Martha or when we cook meat right

54:35

like for example Yiro the G

54:37

Y R O there are lots

54:39

of different pronunciations but apparently

54:42

that one's the closest to

54:44

correct Yiroto and that

54:46

comes from a Greek word meaning turning

54:48

it's a linguist relative of Gyrate hmm

54:51

another one which you probably know is

54:54

donor kebab donor is

54:56

Turkish for turning also and

54:58

kebab means roasted meat in

55:00

shish kebab the shish is

55:03

a word for skewer in

55:05

both Turkish and Armenian I

55:08

did not know that yeah and

55:10

so that shish has a relative

55:12

not etymologically but at least conicatively

55:15

in suvlaki the word

55:17

suvlaki which is a

55:19

Greek dish has a family

55:22

heritage that goes back to a Latin

55:24

word meaning all a WL

55:27

that pointed leatherworking tool used to make

55:29

holes that

55:31

same word is related to

55:34

suture s-u-t-u-r-e so we started

55:36

with grilling went back to

55:38

the Romans did football had

55:40

five beers and ended up

55:42

with a shish kebab I think you guys covered

55:44

a lot of real estate here great

55:46

Martha a whirlwind segment on

55:48

Milk Street thanks so much

55:50

happy grilling that

55:54

was grand barrett and Martha Burnett hosts of

55:56

away with words that's

55:58

it for this week's show but don't forget you find

56:00

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56:03

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56:28

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56:31

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56:33

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56:35

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56:49

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56:51

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56:53

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56:56

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56:58

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57:02

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