0:03

This time a former Son's player who you

0:05

might remember as t Rex. More

0:07

video in just a moment, But this is Rex Chapman's

0:09

mug shun, and we are learning a lot more about

0:12

the charge of charging. I've read

0:14

where you said you struggled with drugs from

0:16

an early age. When did drugs

0:18

enter your life? So the pills are too expensive,

0:21

and so somebody turned me onto heroin, and I

0:23

would do heroin and then I would smoke

0:25

math to make sure I could level out. Once

0:28

I took an opiate, you know, because I was

0:30

taking them as prescribed, and then I started

0:32

snorting him. And once I started snorting

0:34

him, I was like, this is this? Is

0:36

it? Welcome

0:41

to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman.

0:44

Mike Tyson once said everyone

0:47

has a plan until they get punched in the

0:49

mouth, but sometimes you never see what's

0:51

about to hit you. For me, I

0:53

never thought the hardest part of my career as a

0:55

professional athlete would be fighting off an addiction

0:58

to painkillers opioids and

1:00

fighting to keep my relationships, my reputation,

1:03

even my dignity. As a disease

1:05

was attacking all aspects of my life.

1:08

That fight was and is the hardest

1:10

of my career as a professional basketball player,

1:13

and I never fought anybody but

1:15

today's guest. He knows exactly

1:17

what it's like to get punched in the mouth, and yet

1:20

his fight and my fight are the same, and

1:23

he knows all too well how much more pain

1:25

can come from a pill than any

1:27

punch ever thrown by a human, and that

1:29

includes Mike Tyson. This his

1:32

charges.

1:40

Welcome to the show, my friend, Isaac Valley

1:42

Flag Welcome. Thanks for having me, man,

1:44

I appreciate it. Man, I'm so excited.

1:47

We just kind of got to, you

1:50

know, a little bit of a Twitter relationship,

1:52

and man, I've followed your

1:54

story on and off throughout the years. My son

1:56

is a big m M A fan, And

1:59

uh, I'm really happy for you

2:01

and to see where you are today.

2:03

Thanks Ben. Yeah, it's uh, it's a cool

2:06

place to be, especially considering where

2:08

I was about four years ago, you know what I mean? And

2:10

yeah, you do know, Yeah, you do know what I mean? Right,

2:13

Yeah, And it's baby steps, man, And I

2:15

was brushing up on some things today

2:17

and so much of it resonated. Well,

2:20

let's start here. How the hell does somebody

2:22

decide I want to be a professional fighter

2:25

uh, you know, I kinda so I

2:27

had another body who we're

2:30

working at a bar, and uh, it

2:32

just kind of seemed like it was a

2:34

fun thing to do. I kind of grew up doing

2:38

getting into fight street fights and stuff and

2:40

uh and some of our longline.

2:43

Uh, they told me I could do it and

2:45

I wasn't gonna get in trouble and uh, I might

2:47

even get paid at some point. So that was you

2:49

know, that was like m M as the

2:51

early days before it was like really

2:54

as big as it was, the UFC was

2:56

a thing, but it wasn't like a thing like

2:58

a force like it is now, you know. So

3:00

it was that That's kind of how for

3:03

you. I was early twenties,

3:05

so I gotta got into it late. Um.

3:08

You know a lot of the a lot of the guys these days,

3:11

they start doing stuff because the sports gotten

3:13

so big, they start doing stuff at a at a real

3:15

young age, you know, and it just wasn't

3:17

the case when I was younger. I just kind of

3:19

dug the whole aspect of fighting, and then

3:22

then I fell in love with like the more spiritual

3:24

side of the fighting game too. You know. Yeah,

3:27

I was wondering about that, you know, I've heard heard

3:29

some fighters talk about how it it really

3:31

is more of an art form than about the violence

3:34

or actual fighting. What do you view

3:36

it as? So? Uh?

3:38

Number one, I do love the violence of it. I mean,

3:40

you know what I mean. But there's something

3:42

really uh for

3:45

lack of a better word, peaceful about being

3:47

in there, uh with another human

3:49

being. And it's just you know, as much as

3:51

there is crowd noise and stuff, it's just you and

3:53

them like essentially locked in together

3:56

and you're really paying attention to the breathing

3:58

and everything, and you're very much in the moment,

4:00

you know. And so there there's like a

4:02

real beauty to fighting. There really is,

4:04

you know, And I think that, I

4:07

mean it is. Look, it's violent, we're fighting each

4:09

other. But at the same time, there's a lot of people

4:11

who find a certain amount of

4:13

like of

4:15

of peace doing that, you know, And I think I'm I'm

4:17

one of them, and it isn't it. You know.

4:19

I obviously didn't compete like

4:22

this in a sport where

4:24

you actually, you know, fight. We all talked

4:26

about, well, we went to war last night and we've

4:28

battled them. No, we didn't. Ye

4:30

basketball the players never fight. Let's get

4:32

North, can we

4:35

you know, you gotta fight somebody for three

4:37

seconds till they break you up, right

4:39

right, Let's just get that out of the way right now.

4:45

No. So I'm wondering though, But you know, playing

4:48

that sport, you know there no matter

4:50

how hard you go at one another, there's a mutual

4:52

respect. And I gotta think that that's you

4:55

know some of it too, that piece of being

4:57

in the ring with someone else you know is a professional

5:00

and you guys are gonna I mean, I would think, don't

5:02

you sort of have a kinship even

5:04

though you're trying to kick that person's ass.

5:06

So I got lucky. I got to fight guys who are

5:08

like kind of my heroes, So I mean it was

5:11

it was kind of cool. Uh like Eaves

5:13

Edwards and taking or Gold me. We're

5:15

uh those are the guys who I really

5:18

liked coming up and I got to fight him, you know. Uh,

5:21

So it was there is that kind

5:23

of kinship, especially when you're doing you're fighting

5:25

somebody who you look up to, you know, right,

5:28

Well, tell me about the training that somebody

5:30

has to do to compete in m m A and

5:32

not like jumping rope and push ups,

5:34

like what it's like to learn all the fighting

5:37

styles, how to defend things all that.

5:40

Uh. So the learning

5:42

part, I mean, that's the other part of it that's really cool

5:44

is you are learning a craft, you know, uh,

5:47

and it's intense, uh and

5:49

it's fun. At my age, because

5:52

I started so late, I kind of was

5:54

behind the curve, and I really

5:56

I pushed myself as hard as I could to try

5:58

to to try to catch out with these like young

6:00

guys like Cub Swanson is a really

6:02

good friend of mine and uh and he started

6:05

young and he would come out here to Albuquerque,

6:08

and I always felt like I had to work harder

6:10

than him because I didn't have the same amount of time

6:12

and that left in the sport or

6:14

natural ability as him or anything like

6:16

that. So I always pushed myself

6:18

as hard as I could to try to get better at it.

6:20

You know, were you were you an

6:22

athlete growing up? Did you play sports?

6:25

Did you? Um? Or you don't

6:27

have to play sports to be an athlete, but did you

6:29

have an athletic background growing up? Now?

6:32

You know? So I've never had a dad,

6:34

so I don't know, uh, you know, father

6:36

in the house until like later on. Um,

6:39

and I just kind of had a hippie mom who

6:41

wrote poetry, so I don't even know if I was.

6:43

That's awesome though, Yeah, that's awesome

6:45

though. But finding it's amazing to

6:48

go through, you know, twenty years of your

6:50

life and then all of a sudden, you

6:52

know, it had. I like the

6:54

new sports, like in the Olympics every year.

6:56

I enjoy that. I'm so thrilled to

6:58

see, you know, it's a violent sport and I know

7:00

you can you only have a short window of time to

7:02

do it. But I'm really excited for, you

7:04

know, there to be another profession

7:07

outside of just traditional boxing, which

7:09

is that's what it was when I was growing up. I

7:11

remember in my hometown they had something

7:13

called um tough Man competitions

7:16

and those were just bare knuckle

7:19

kind of things until you one

7:21

person got knocked out. And

7:23

you know, it's just amazing to see where the sport

7:26

and where mixed martial arts

7:28

has gone over the last thirty years.

7:30

I love watching the sport. Grol. I honestly

7:33

think that uh M M A.

7:35

As much as M M A and boxing compete with

7:37

each other as far as like for viewership

7:39

and stuff, I think they also push each other to get better,

7:41

you know, uh you're seeing people pick up

7:43

stuff from other skill sets and other

7:46

sports, and and you're also seeing boxing

7:49

now starting to get a revival of being a

7:51

little bit more exciting than it was after after

7:53

Mike Tyson and after the eighties boxers.

7:56

You know, uh, for a while, we

7:58

weren't treated to any of the Hagler Herns stuff.

8:00

It was just kind of boring, you know so,

8:03

And I think mixed martial arts kind of nipping

8:05

it its its heels really forced

8:07

it into a place where now it's gotten exciting

8:09

again. I agree with that.

8:11

Um, let's talk about the process

8:14

of becoming a pro. What is that?

8:16

Like? Who do you have to beat or

8:18

impress or better question, how do you even

8:21

get noticed? Because there's so many

8:23

m m A and UFC style

8:26

gems. How does one go from just doing

8:28

that to trying to make a living

8:30

in the NBA. There's a pretty clear path. If you go

8:32

to college, you go to the NBA. How

8:34

did you decipher all of that? When

8:37

I started off there with you never had an

8:39

amateur pro kind of deal. You

8:41

just you started fighting. And then I got

8:43

lucky enough to be in in one of the better gyms

8:45

in the world in Albuquerque, and

8:48

just did a certain amount of rounds with

8:50

with all the really talented

8:52

A level guys, and and then I beat

8:54

some guys and people took notice of me, you know, I

8:56

got I getting your ass kicked

8:59

at first vice him guys when you

9:01

just didn't know what you're doing yet. Yeah,

9:05

uh, you know that's kind of when

9:07

I was coming up, I think for because

9:10

we didn't know any better. You earned your lumps in the

9:12

gym. I mean, you know, you really, you

9:14

really did. And there was there was some real

9:16

talent in our gym. You know. We had Cowboys Roni

9:19

and Cub and and and a bunch of guys,

9:21

you know. And I would just get in front of him because

9:23

I wanted time in front of the coach and I knew that it would

9:25

make me better talking to them and training

9:28

with them. So that's just what I did. And

9:30

and again I was an older guy, so it's not

9:32

like I had like this. I didn't ever

9:34

have anybody looking out for me like

9:36

these younger talented guys. Did you

9:38

know. You gotta remember Cowboys

9:42

six six years younger than me, and

9:44

his career in the w C and USC

9:46

started way like long

9:49

before mine, did. I just thought it was a cool deal and

9:51

I wanted a spot. You know, you have to

9:53

be a really good student though, you know, I don't

9:55

know how you did it growing up and when you were

9:57

in school or everything, but it obviously appeared

10:00

that there's something with this sport

10:02

that you found intriguing

10:05

and you were able to pick it up, I

10:07

mean pretty damn quickly. And it takes

10:09

a lot of studying, you know, and being engaged

10:12

as much as it was studying just a bunch

10:15

of hard work. I mean I was always known as

10:17

like I would put an extra time. I would

10:19

put in, you know, more time because I

10:22

knew that I didn't have the advantage of having the

10:24

talent that some of these guys did, and I knew

10:26

where I was, so I just I put in. I

10:28

worked my ass off, you know, fantastic.

10:31

How do you describe the feeling being in the ring

10:33

when your fights about to start? Are you focused

10:36

on your plan? Are you just trying

10:38

to get quiet in your mind? Or are you ampt

10:40

and ready to ready your role? I

10:43

get so the minute I get in there, I get

10:45

real quiet. I mean, like the up leading

10:47

up to a fight, I'm super nervous and

10:49

super I mean It's a scary deal. You're

10:51

you're literally about to go fight somebody and possibly

10:54

get knocked out on TV or whatever they're

10:56

you know whatever, you're looking at your home crowd

10:58

or whatever. But then once you get

11:00

in there, like I said, everything gets kind of quiet again,

11:03

you know, I mean really like it's just you

11:05

and that other guy at that point, and you hear your your

11:07

hone in on your coaches, and it's just really,

11:10

uh, I'm just you're there to do

11:12

your thing kind of and it's like, what what you worked

11:14

hard for? You know? Yeah? Um

11:17

so, okay, you're part of the UFC

11:20

and you're in the mix. Tell me what it's like to be a

11:22

part of, you know, one of these big cards

11:24

and the whole process. Who's helping you figure

11:26

out who to fight and you

11:29

know what to do when fights fall apart.

11:32

Uh So I had good managers and good

11:34

coaching luckily along the way. And you

11:36

know, uh, we'll get

11:39

when we get into the addiction stuff, we'll get in. My career

11:41

didn't last very long in the UFC. I found

11:43

pain pills law like almost

11:46

immediately, you know, and you can see uh,

11:49

kind of my from my first fight

11:51

to my second fight even that like

11:54

the downfall, like the starting of the of

11:56

the addiction, you know, because I

11:58

had done some you know, I fought for another

12:01

organization that the UFC owned, called Strike

12:03

Force, and I beat a really bigger

12:05

name at the time. And then, uh, and

12:07

then I had my first fight in the UFC against a guy

12:09

named Eves Edwards. And then right after that, I

12:11

hurt my back and that was kind of like the you

12:14

know, I kind of messed around the stuff, but that

12:16

was like it, you know, I mean, it

12:18

was just you know, that part of

12:20

it was became more exciting than

12:22

the than the fight itself. I get it.

12:25

I get it. You know, I've said I've

12:27

read where you said you struggled with drugs

12:30

from an early age. When did drugs

12:32

enter your life? When I

12:34

was like, I mean, drinking

12:37

twelve thirteen, Drinking was always

12:39

part of my family. So it was like we

12:41

were the we were the family of like taking

12:43

SIPs at the family reunions, you know what

12:45

I mean. The parents didn't mind or

12:48

adults didn't mind. Yeah, get it. Yeah,

12:50

it was just a I mean, I think it was just different

12:52

than you know, it was just what you did in family stuff,

12:54

you know, Uh, so there was always that,

12:57

but like on my own, like twelve or thirteen, really

12:59

young, Like like I look at my daughter who's fifteen.

13:01

Now I'm thinking, man, you are

13:03

not even close to ready to any

13:07

any drinks. And I'm like, oh the hell, I

13:10

know. I know. Isaac

13:14

is a great example of how things can go downhill

13:16

quickly, from drinking as

13:18

a youngster at family functions to using

13:21

at parties to letting it all affect

13:23

his livelihood as an m M A fighter.

13:26

I for one, know the dangers of opioids

13:28

for my playing career and thereafter. Although

13:31

basketball can be brutal to the body, there

13:34

is no comparison to what an m

13:36

M A fighter is put through in

13:38

the ring and in the ranks. Isaac was

13:40

ascending, but on the inside,

13:43

his greatest battle was about to begin.

13:51

So at what point did

13:53

it go from alcohol to something else?

13:56

So I have always struggled and

13:58

kind of went in and out of of some

14:00

sort of a program and like white knuckled

14:03

stuff and and things like that. Uh,

14:05

but you know, and I've always dabbled

14:07

in drugs, but like the really hard opiate

14:09

stuff wasn't until this last,

14:12

this last little stint that I had, you

14:14

know, like in in twenty twelve,

14:16

I started, were you someone who partied

14:19

Isaac or someone who

14:21

used uh, you know to kind of sort

14:23

of make things go away or to level

14:25

out? I started

14:28

by being a party or I mean, like I always

14:30

I always thought that that's how you that's

14:32

how you unwound. And I saw people who could

14:35

party, just party, you know what I mean.

14:38

You know, I'm sure just like you see people celebrate

14:40

after a game, right, and you're like, yeah, I can do that, and

14:42

I just you know, so that's how it started. But then

14:44

towards the end of it, it was just me getting high in

14:46

my garage by myself, you know, so and

14:49

and that was just there's nothing there except for

14:51

masking something some other trauma that

14:53

I'm trying to deal with, you know. Towards the end,

14:56

there is no more party left, you know. I mean, it's just

14:58

you know, remember getting yeah,

15:00

I remember getting in. You know, at first, everybody

15:03

says it's you know, at first, drugs are

15:05

fun, and then it's fun with problems, and then

15:07

it's just problems after a while. Like

15:10

let's talk about pain meds in gyms

15:12

and locker rooms. Uh no, I I'm not

15:14

trying to get you to get anybody in trouble. But

15:17

what what was that like in the UFC and

15:19

m M A world. So everybody again,

15:22

you know, like you're dealing with a bunch of alpha

15:24

males, uh

15:26

or alpha male mentality kind of stuff

15:28

that it's like guys if

15:30

they were using and I know a few guys

15:32

who who were because we talked

15:35

about it now and they've had they've addressed

15:37

some issues. But you hid that stuff

15:39

because you didn't want anybody knowing that you had a

15:41

weakness of some sort, you know. Uh.

15:44

So you know I

15:46

found my guy and uh and but

15:48

it's not like this is a guy your doctor

15:51

was outside the gym. Yeah,

15:53

outside the gym, And so I found a

15:55

guy that wasn't going to relay stuff back

15:57

to anybody. You know, I

16:00

think, you know, there was a couple of guys.

16:02

There's a few guys in the gym who knew I

16:04

was doing stuff by the time it was too late.

16:06

But I mean I tried to keep it hitting

16:08

the best that I could. You know, I didn't

16:11

you know, I didn't think I knew how dangerous

16:15

I because I

16:17

considered myself such a strong guy.

16:20

Um, I didn't think

16:22

that I was going to have the same issues with with opiates

16:24

that everybody else did, you know what I mean? And I'm sure

16:27

sure you were the same way, right. I mean, you're you're a professional

16:29

athlete. You've you've gotten yourself whatever

16:32

is right. You've gotten

16:34

yourself this far. So I'm gonna be able to handle

16:36

this and I'll just stop after whatever.

16:39

You know, Yeah, you feel invincible, like you're

16:41

one of one. You know, you just can do

16:43

anything right. Yeah,

16:45

and you know it's yeah,

16:48

you really do. And it's crazy how much.

16:51

And I think you're seeing a lot of guy,

16:53

especially fighters now, you're seeing a lot of guys

16:56

who are who are starting to get affected

16:58

by that um

17:00

mental health wise and then addiction

17:03

to wise and everything. I mean, it's a it's a big

17:05

deal. You're taking a bunch of kids who didn't know anything,

17:08

letting us get hit or we we put

17:10

ourselves in there, but we all get hit in the head a bunch,

17:12

and then you put us in front of a camera and things are

17:15

bound to to get a little bit

17:17

weird, you know, no, no question about

17:19

it. You know I've said this before on the

17:21

show. Um, but I remember

17:23

when I took OxyContin. You

17:26

know, my brain immediately had a reaction

17:28

that was like, oh shit, I

17:31

really like this. This is my this

17:33

is my jam. Uh. You know, I

17:35

want to feel this way all the time. That's

17:38

immediately what I felt, which we know not

17:40

everyone feels like that. You

17:42

had something similar happened though, right,

17:45

Oh yeah, that was like once I

17:47

took an opiate, uh, you

17:49

know, because I was taking them as prescribed

17:51

and then I started snorting him. And once

17:54

I started snorting him, I was like, this is this

17:56

is it? Like, Wow,

17:58

I never snorted him. I I I chewed them.

18:00

I chewed them to try to get in. I've heard

18:03

of the you know, I got into rehab and heard of

18:05

the snorting. But man, that's

18:07

gotta be Oh my goodness.

18:10

Look man, like we wouldn't we wouldn't be having this

18:12

conversation if it wasn't one of the greatest feelings

18:14

in the world, you know what. I'm with you, and

18:16

it's uh, it's one of those things that just eventually

18:19

kicked the ship out of me. But I mean like I

18:22

loved it, man, I really until I

18:24

did, and I loved it, you know same, you know, I

18:26

for me, I the the initial

18:28

I was always kind of a little, uh, socially

18:31

awkward around people I didn't know, and

18:34

you know, being in sports, people would come up

18:36

all the time and you know, kind of say hi and

18:38

introduced themselves, and I'd always felt

18:41

really just awkward about

18:43

it. The second that I took

18:45

the OxyContin, it was like

18:47

my guard went down. I

18:50

felt more at ease in my own

18:52

mind. I felt more. I felt

18:54

funnier and smarter, and you

18:57

know, everything, um,

19:00

and before you know it, it's

19:03

you know, it's not that way, and you're chasing

19:05

one pill and the next pill. You

19:07

know, you get to the point it's you're

19:09

not deciding when to take it anymore. It's

19:11

telling you when you need it. It's telling you

19:13

when it's time, like either physically

19:15

or you or you know, I mean like the same

19:17

thing that most of us who are addicted really

19:20

kind of have. Is it like we got something different

19:22

in our brain that's telling us when it's time. And it's

19:24

not just the physical stuff, you know, it's like really

19:27

like something clicks in my head

19:29

that it's like, man, it's time to

19:31

to get high. Still, you know, so at one

19:33

point, you know, I'm

19:36

sure it was they were prescribed to you for legitimate,

19:39

you know pain, like you said, back pain. Um,

19:43

how long and because there's

19:46

something that goes on with our minds? How

19:48

long did you take opioids

19:52

thinking and truly believing

19:54

I am only taking this for my

19:56

physical pain until

19:58

you realize you were you know, you're

20:00

actually just taking it because you're addicted

20:03

and you like the way it makes you feel. I

20:05

think there was a certain amount of that throughout

20:08

the whole time, Like I had to. I had

20:10

to, you know, like my addict brain.

20:12

Even so even when I started, so I went

20:14

from pills to heroin, and uh,

20:17

even when I started using the heroin, I'm like, well,

20:19

I really hurt, you know. I mean, like there's

20:21

a real you know, and

20:23

and that's bullsh I mean it really is bullshit.

20:26

Like I deal with my pain

20:28

now and I'm fine, you know. And uh, and

20:30

I know guys who have my friend Cub,

20:32

I'll keep using him. He had his whole face broken

20:35

and he doesn't take opiates, right,

20:37

And but so there was this lie

20:39

in the back of my head the whole time that was like,

20:41

man, you you really need this, you know.

20:43

I Mean, there's that denial thing that you need

20:45

in order to keep everything kind of running. You know,

20:48

well, you know on charges we talk about you

20:51

know, the ugly part, and we'll get back into the good

20:53

part. But let's get into it. You're so

20:55

you're out of the UFC and you're struggling

20:57

with drugs. Um, how

20:59

do you up in a car with guns

21:01

and drugs and being charged with robbery? Unlucky?

21:06

Yeah, attempted. I guess I'm just unlucky.

21:08

You know. It's so, it

21:10

really was. I mean it was like I've

21:13

always so I've always done stuff

21:15

like I shot with some of the police officers over

21:17

here. Uh, and I've been part

21:19

of like a good community. So all

21:22

this stuff that I was doing, I mean I I

21:25

even when I was getting high, I was still shooting with

21:27

like some people that I knew who were federal

21:29

agents and stuff. So I always pictured myself

21:32

as a pretty good guy. Yeah, you know,

21:34

law abiding citizen who just like to tinker

21:36

with guns. And you know, I

21:39

knew I was doing a lot of

21:41

stuff that to feed

21:43

my addiction as far as stealing goes.

21:45

Um that I still was

21:48

justifying for whatever reason

21:50

because it was known.

21:53

I know it's hard to talk about, and but I

21:55

feel your pain, right now because people

21:57

ask me all the time, they were like, but you

22:00

you stole some stuff, and and

22:03

and it's it's painful, right,

22:05

it's painful to reconcile that you

22:08

we were doing this right.

22:11

Well, it's it's that whole thing of like, I

22:14

mean, we are at the end of the day,

22:16

we're what somebody would consider a junkie.

22:19

But it's like, sitting here talking to you, it's hard

22:21

to imagine either one of us being you

22:24

know, you have this idea in your head of what a junkie

22:26

looks like, you know what I mean, And it's not

22:28

it's not somebody who performed at a high

22:31

level in basketball or fighting. A junkie

22:33

is somebody who you see panhandling,

22:35

you know, in the street.

22:37

And I was actually there, you know, not

22:40

literally, but pretty close to it there

22:42

for a while. And so was I. The thing that saved my

22:44

asses that I have a I have a wife

22:46

God who's like a godsend,

22:49

who really like, if it

22:51

wasn't for her, I'd be homeless, you know, and and

22:53

who I lied too good enough to let me stay

22:55

in the house. I mean, that's that's

22:58

my big thing, is I did a lot of stuff to my

23:00

addiction. That's not great and I'm not

23:02

proud of it. But the things that I'm really not

23:04

proud of is the way that I treated

23:06

my family and friends. You know, I

23:09

burned a lot of bridges with people who I love

23:11

greatly, uh, trying

23:14

to either being super toxic

23:16

or like trying to feed the addiction

23:19

and needing to lie about it to everybody.

23:21

You know. So like this, I

23:23

can talk about the I got good war stories

23:25

about stealing and that kind of I'll laugh

23:27

about that, and it's not a funny thing, but I can

23:30

laugh about that. The thing that really hurts it is like the stuff

23:32

that I did to my family and friends and in the

23:34

name of in the name of like continuing

23:36

to run. You know, I said,

23:39

so one of the guns had a silencer. What

23:41

was going on there? So

23:45

I was building silencers and

23:47

and again so that this was the like

23:50

the mania of the drugs. I'm like, that's just

23:52

normal to me. Right, I'm sitting my you

23:54

know, your your brain really starts to tell

23:56

you this ship is that everything that you're

23:58

doing is normal. It was the thing about

24:00

oxyconton for me, and I think that that was

24:02

the other thing about it was that I

24:06

realized it was like every good

24:08

thought I had kind of hung

24:10

around and all that every

24:12

bad thought was real fleeting. And

24:15

it almost made me think I've said it before.

24:18

It was almost like it was the it'll be all

24:20

right drug, because that's what it reminds.

24:22

It just tells you it'll be all right, Okay,

24:24

Yeah, those bills came, it'll

24:26

be all right and right, yeah,

24:29

and I'll deal with that later, you know. And and and that

24:31

only goes so far before you before

24:33

you end up in some serious ship, you know.

24:37

So your thing was, didn't

24:40

you get caught stealing like iPods or

24:42

something at an Apple store? Which

24:45

which to me again, So my thing

24:47

I got caught stealing. Uh, I

24:49

was stealing copper and stuff from from

24:51

a few places, you know, right, from

24:53

building sites and stuff. Yeah, from from

24:56

stuff like that. And and so I'm sitting

24:58

here looking at something like, man, that's like I

25:01

watched people running out of Apple and people

25:03

steal copper all the time. I'm like, those guys

25:05

are junkies. I'm like, oh wait, fucking

25:11

that's right. Yeah, you know, going

25:16

from a blossoming m M A career to

25:18

being arrested for stealing copper from construction

25:20

sites is a severe fall from grace.

25:23

To make matters worse. For Isaac, opioids

25:26

weren't the only drug of choice that

25:28

had entered his world. Sometimes

25:31

when charges hit, they come at the right

25:33

time to save a life.

25:41

What was your lowest point, Isaac?

25:43

And whatever happened with those charges? So

25:46

the charge is luckily, Uh, I got

25:48

a pre prosecution deferral. Uh,

25:51

and I went to treatment and I had a great lawyer

25:53

obviously, and uh and those charges, I

25:55

did a good amount of community

25:58

service and stuff, and they got to smith because I was looking

26:01

at some serious time, you know. Um.

26:04

And you know, I wish that I could say that was

26:06

even my lowest point, but you know, I kept

26:08

I got I went to jail and got out, and I went

26:10

to treatment once and uh, then

26:13

I kept getting high. Uh. And

26:15

I think the lowest heroin

26:17

at this point, because you really, the

26:20

pills are too expensive at a certain

26:22

point, right, Yeah, So so the

26:24

pills are too expensive, and so somebody turned

26:26

me onto heroin and I would do heroin and

26:28

then I would smoke meth to make sure I could level

26:31

out. So Matt, see that's a whole

26:33

other thing. I'm

26:35

I'm sorry to begin with, because

26:37

you know, sitting in rehab um

26:41

a lot of people that go down that road, and

26:43

heroin as well. But once people go

26:45

down the meth road, you know, it's very

26:47

hard to recover. And man, I'm

26:49

really proud of what you're doing. Well,

26:52

so both of us. I mean, like you

26:55

know this, our chances as

26:57

as recovering opiate addicts are not good,

27:00

you know. Uh, and you throw a meth on top

27:02

of that, and it's even worse. But it really

27:04

is the kind of thing that like, uh

27:07

uh, as long as I'm diligent about

27:09

some stuff. You know, I'm in a recovery

27:12

program, and as long as I'm diligent about the

27:14

stuff that I do, uh, then

27:16

I stay good, right, And so it

27:20

really you

27:22

know, I know our chances aren't good, and I

27:24

knows a meth and heroin addict they're not

27:26

good, So I get I stay extra vigilant

27:29

about that, you know, like I do. I'm

27:31

observing. I have yeah, and I

27:33

have people that I work with, and I talk to people on

27:36

a daily basis and and all the stuff

27:38

that we're told to do, you know. So

27:41

you know, I'm

27:43

curious. I know what opioids feel

27:45

like. I don't know what heroin feels like. I can

27:48

only imagine because I know what oxy feels

27:50

like. Um, what does meth

27:52

do to your brain? You said

27:54

you were doing the heroin and

27:56

then you do the the meth later. Is

27:59

it just a different rent? Is meth more

28:01

of a stimulant? I guess it is. It's

28:03

a stimulant. But I mean, really, so I

28:06

had this whole life that I had to keep lying

28:08

about so that I could keep a family and so

28:10

that I could keep appearances up, so

28:12

I couldn't go too far down and

28:14

I couldn't go too far up. So I was just using

28:16

those to kind of to not feel

28:19

any level out, not feel anything,

28:21

you know. Uh. And I don't

28:23

realize until I look back at

28:25

stuff, until I look back at the way I

28:28

have interacted with people, I don't realize

28:30

how crazy my brain was

28:32

with the drugs, you know what I mean? Like I

28:34

I I look at the thoughts that I have,

28:36

and I'm like, dude, this is like, I'm

28:40

like, how the fund did I even? How did

28:42

you anybody even buy that? I wasn't like just

28:44

losing my fucking mind. You know, I'm with you because

28:46

I drove around in in

28:49

Phoenix for years without a driver's

28:51

license, you know, and I

28:53

was pulled over all the time. I would get um,

28:56

you know, I would get arrested

28:59

here and there and for not having

29:01

a license and just idiotic,

29:05

idiotic thinking, you know. Yeah,

29:08

stuff that seemed normal, right, Yeah,

29:10

what what was your low point?

29:13

You've been clean now for a couple of years,

29:15

right, yeah, for it'll

29:17

be four in February, so let's

29:20

go. Yeah,

29:24

thank you. It's uh, but what caused

29:26

that? What was that point for you that

29:28

you just went Okay, I can't do it anymore.

29:31

I don't even know. It was just it was

29:34

I mean, it was kind of looking at the shame in my

29:36

wife's eyes, you know. Uh,

29:39

and I man, I wish I had a really

29:41

cool story about it, but I was just beat down,

29:43

man. And it was like I

29:45

was just beat to the point where I didn't I didn't

29:47

have any answers. I knew I couldn't keep getting

29:50

high, and I was like, man, I don't know if I can stop

29:52

getting high, but I knew I couldn't, like

29:55

you know, and so I just I

29:57

was completely just defeated

30:00

and there was really nothing I

30:02

remember, just broken in it,

30:04

you know, he really, I mean, and you know

30:06

this, there's this demoralization. The arrests

30:08

are bad, everything like that house is bad.

30:11

But like, for whatever reason,

30:13

we have that moment of clarity that we're just like, man,

30:16

I can't, I can't do this anymore.

30:18

And and it was that man

30:20

like I remember

30:24

my my wife.

30:27

I had to explain to her what

30:30

keeping me well for the weekend until I got

30:32

into treatment was. And my wife is

30:34

a straight laced, straight

30:36

straight lace. She works for the d

30:39

O D has a clearance kind of

30:41

you know, we we almost mess that

30:43

up, but that's who she is. And

30:45

uh, having to

30:48

explain to her what keeping me well till

30:50

I could get into treatment look like. And

30:52

then having to drop me off on the edge of what we

30:54

call the war zone here so I could go pick up dope,

30:56

you know, and borrowing money

30:58

from her at the end so I could go get high until

31:01

until I could get into treatment, you know. And

31:03

that's that's what it

31:05

was. It wasn't any it wasn't any

31:07

one thing, because I can sit in a jail cell.

31:09

I know how to do that, you know, I know how to hustle.

31:12

It was really just the feeling of just absolutely

31:16

and utter disgusted with myself with what I

31:18

had become. Kind of you know, same, very

31:20

much the same. I remember also, um,

31:23

you know, getting into treatment and

31:25

of course the detox just being awful.

31:28

But I remember the first day I got in there.

31:31

This was seven years ago, and

31:34

I got in there and you

31:36

know, I had not kept my drug problems

31:38

a mystery to my friends.

31:41

Everyone knew, you know, that I had

31:43

my issues. It hadn't been public

31:45

though, and at this point it had

31:47

been public. You know, I was arrested and now

31:49

I'm going into treatment within a couple of

31:51

weeks. And I remember getting into

31:54

and this is before detox, but I remember getting

31:56

into my room there and you know,

31:58

there's no TV, there's no nothing. It's like

32:00

a little dorm room. And I just remember

32:03

this moment of sitting on

32:06

the bed. Nobody else was in the room,

32:09

and I just went and

32:12

I exhaled, and I was like, Okay,

32:15

after years of

32:17

this, I feel like I'm in the

32:20

right spot. I don't everybody

32:22

knows that. You know, I've got issues

32:24

and now I gotta try

32:26

to dig out of it. But there was that moment for

32:28

me. Was there one for you? Kind of like that, Yeah,

32:31

I mean there was honestly, so that moment

32:34

happened. That moment happened when

32:36

I went to jail, when I got arrested, because

32:38

I was like, cool, I can stop running, you know.

32:41

Uh, and like I can quit line

32:43

to my wife and everybody else about

32:46

what's going on. I knew things,

32:48

not like I was happy about it, but the same thing.

32:50

It was just the kind of the

32:52

the okay, we're we're

32:55

kind of a relief relief

32:57

of like I can stop now out

33:01

and I didn't, but you know, I get

33:03

it. I get it. So how how does life start turning

33:05

around for you though? Once you got into

33:07

treatment um to where you are

33:09

now? How did how did it start turning

33:12

around? I made a promise to myself that

33:14

I was gonna do whatever anybody asked me that had

33:16

to do with recovery, you know. And

33:18

I and again, like I, I approached

33:20

it like I did my fighting. I was going to be very vigilant

33:23

about and being regimented if you

33:25

asked me to do something, I did it, you know, and uh.

33:28

And there was times when I hated it, but I

33:30

remember what I told myself that I was

33:32

gonna you know, and that really

33:35

that has served me even to this

33:37

day of like, I know, as long

33:39

as I keep doing the next right thing, uh,

33:42

that whatever, this higher power

33:44

thing is going to keep taking care of me, you know what I mean.

33:47

And that really is like every

33:49

time I get stressed out or frustrated,

33:52

I remember what I had told myself and

33:54

what I've told other people I work with, and that

33:56

just keep doing the next right thing and that we're gonna stay

33:59

vigilant about this off And every time that I focused

34:01

on my recovery, life has

34:03

just gotten better. You know, it hasn't. It hasn't

34:05

been exactly who I wanted,

34:08

right, Uh. You know, Like I

34:10

tried fighting for a while afterwards, and I was like,

34:12

this is gonna be my big comeback into

34:15

fighting, and that didn't work out, so I was like

34:17

ship. But being able

34:19

to do that, yeah, being able to take that,

34:21

you know, because hey man, we

34:23

can say what we want. When your career is over

34:26

and you've spent years doing

34:29

that, you're gonna mourn that.

34:31

You're gonna mourn that being over and

34:33

being able to do that and not dip

34:36

back into drugs.

34:38

That's big time, man, So well

34:40

done it is. But I'm

34:42

of the mind to set of we guys

34:44

like you and me, based on the amount of

34:46

like wreckage and pain that we have in our life,

34:49

we have no good excuse to get high anymore, you know.

34:51

Uh so so yeah

34:54

you mourn it, but like there's a lot of people who

34:56

mourn real death without getting

34:58

high. Uh. And that's

35:01

the whole design for living thing that we've

35:03

kind of committed to. Um,

35:05

that's really kind of what I've committed to. And and

35:08

it's like realizing that we don't have

35:10

we don't have that excuse. It's not

35:12

there's no good reason for us to do any

35:15

of that anymore, you know what I mean? Absolutely.

35:18

You know you've talked about how hard it is to struggle

35:20

with addiction, but how much

35:22

harder uh we make it

35:25

as a society for people with this disease.

35:28

Um, you know, what can we do

35:30

better? Education?

35:33

Always education? You know that. Uh.

35:35

I have a good friend who runs a

35:38

treatment center and runs a sober living

35:40

place. He's a clinical he's a head clinician

35:42

there. And uh, you know, the

35:45

more that we educate people about the

35:47

stigma around it, you know, I mean, it's still

35:49

like mental health and addiction are

35:52

still like really frowned

35:54

upon. People still think of this as as a weakness

35:56

that you and I have, And I'm like, man, I'm

35:58

a pretty strong fucking you know. I'll

36:01

take a beating and I'll keep going. But when it comes

36:03

to this one thing, whether it's

36:05

for me several things by anxiety, my depression,

36:07

my addiction, you know, I got no answers

36:10

for it. And that to me, is

36:12

not a weakness. That's just like, that's something

36:14

that there's an illness in my in my head,

36:16

you know, I mean. And and I think it's good

36:19

that people are starting to know more and

36:21

more about the disease of addiction. Yeah,

36:24

but man, you can just put that beautifully,

36:26

I mean, and it's emotional growth to know that,

36:28

hey, look this is why we were doing it

36:30

all these years, and that that's a

36:32

good feeling. Right. For years, I didn't

36:34

I didn't know why I was doing things and what

36:36

was wrong with me. And you know, finally

36:39

I went well, a lot of people

36:41

struggle with mental illness, and you

36:43

know, I'm one of those people. So once

36:45

I could put my arms around it, you

36:48

know, it felt much better. It

36:50

does, especially you know, I've always

36:52

had these anxiety and depression issues,

36:54

but I've never I've never really, it's

36:57

just been a thing. But now like I can recognize

36:59

it and deal with it appropriately, and I'm

37:02

like, oh, ship, that's how you do that, you

37:04

know, Like I don't have to get high over

37:06

that to like mask whatever whatever

37:08

it is. It's whatever bothering you. I know,

37:10

I know, it's so crazy. It's an

37:12

absolute mind fuck, it really is.

37:15

And um, you know, when

37:17

when you look at all your opponents in the ring,

37:20

how does the fight against addiction

37:22

stand up? So again,

37:26

it's almost like I'm never gonna

37:28

if I'm fighting somebody, I'm never gonna stop fighting

37:31

until I'm until I am separated

37:33

from consciousness or or asleep

37:35

from getting choked. The biggest

37:38

thing with this was like, you know,

37:40

it's a corny, hokey thing that you hear in like

37:42

some of the programs, but like I really surrendered

37:44

and then I quit fighting and that was that

37:47

was that made it easy. So is

37:50

it a fight? Uh,

37:52

it's not a fight. Like I don't I

37:55

don't wake up anymore going funk. I want to

37:57

get high, but I'm not going to do it today. You know, I

37:59

wake up every morning and I really do kind of count

38:01

my blessings and see why I'm grateful for and

38:03

the work that I have to do for

38:06

to stay sober is like minuscule

38:09

compared to what I had

38:11

to do to get high and to maintain that lifestyle.

38:13

So I don't think it's a fight. I really I

38:16

don't. I don't view it as a fight. You know, that's

38:18

great, that's great. What does a day

38:20

in your life look like these days? In Albert?

38:23

Kirt? I'm super boring, man.

38:25

I get up and do roofing and then uh come

38:27

home and see the family, hit a meeting.

38:29

You know, good. You

38:31

know the meetings that that's interesting too. You

38:34

know, I did a ton of meetings, and

38:36

um, you know, getting

38:40

clean and sober is different for everybody.

38:42

Uh. The one thing that I learned most about those

38:44

meetings though, was

38:47

it's camaraderie and it's

38:49

being able to be with other people

38:52

who you know, nobody's putting

38:54

on any airs. Everyone's a little

38:56

bit fucked up in here, and you

38:59

know you can kind to share in that and

39:01

and other people's stories, and you know,

39:03

um, I think what you ever, you know, you

39:05

said some of its corny whatever, but

39:08

it's seems important. It

39:10

is important, and you know a lot of that they're

39:13

they're starting to look at stuff is like you know, isolation

39:15

is being a really big deal for

39:17

for addicts, you know. And I'm a

39:19

big fan of like, whatever way you find

39:22

your recovery is great

39:24

for me, as long as it's as long as it's working.

39:26

I found it a particular way, and

39:28

I stick with that, you know. Uh. And my

39:30

big thing is not isolating myself for people,

39:33

you know. I mean this, the disease kind

39:35

of wants us dead and wants us

39:37

alone for that to happen. And

39:39

they're starting to go more and more. They're

39:41

starting to see how just like you said, that

39:44

camaraderie stuff is really plays

39:46

into, uh, plays

39:48

into the real recovery, you know. So

39:51

now I'm gonna give you my uh my

39:54

credentials, my stats for my

39:56

playing days. I was about six four one.

40:00

I have one ninety six

40:02

six or seven wingspan. Uh.

40:05

I come walking into the gym, How are you

40:07

training me? And do I have any sort of

40:09

shot? Uh? You're gonna

40:12

we're gonna use your lengths obviously, okay.

40:15

Yeah, And we're gonna keep you away from people and

40:17

and make sure you and I are different fighters. I'm

40:19

a short, little fire plug and I like to get hit,

40:21

but I don't want you. I do not want you

40:24

getting hit. So we're gonna learn how to use your jab

40:26

and your and your kicks and stuff and keep

40:28

you a distance till you can hurt somebody. But

40:30

man, I did a few, We did

40:33

a few boxing sort of workouts,

40:35

uh or I've done something in my life.

40:37

And we did some with certain teams. I

40:40

mean one thing we did about

40:42

basketball drill. We just ran around

40:44

the court with our arms up like this for

40:47

three minutes, thinking, you

40:49

know, that's not too bad. You get to about a

40:51

minute and you and you guys gotta be

40:53

up like this all the time. People don't understand

40:56

the endurance and the strength

40:59

and the uh, the mental

41:01

fortitude. It's a lot.

41:03

Man. It's like like getting to any

41:06

I consider the UFC a high level. I never

41:08

got to the heights of the UFC that I

41:10

think I should have. But like, once you're

41:12

there, like you you've developed a

41:14

work ethic and a and a mental fortitude

41:17

that that it's crazy, man. And like

41:19

and for any any sport, like

41:21

at a pro level, even if you're riding

41:23

a bench, you're gad, dude, you

41:26

know what question about it? Yeah, you put

41:28

your time in a lot of practice, a lot of muscle

41:30

memory, and you can't fake that stuff, you know,

41:33

So that's always what's abusing to me. Sorry,

41:35

I'm gonna mention your your social media stuff

41:37

here a little bit because I love it than

41:40

man. Yeah, well I I do it.

41:42

It's cool to see you use your platform the

41:44

way you do. Um. You

41:46

know, I'm a fairly left leaning guy as

41:49

you are, and it's it's good to see

41:51

guys like you and what's his face

41:53

David Bautista and guys like that really

41:55

kind of uh putting it out

41:58

there. And I mean, you guys do

42:00

have you? Guys are like

42:02

he has a whole fan base. It probably believes

42:05

that that Trump still won, right, but

42:07

he's not afraid to at this point. He does

42:09

it, but he's not afraid to lose that popularity

42:11

because he knows what it, what it means for real,

42:13

you knows to

42:16

be to be real and honest. Yeah.

42:18

I appreciate that too, And

42:20

it's cool to see guys like you who have

42:22

like who really have that using

42:25

it for what it what it should be used for. Man,

42:27

you know, I wish I had the balls that you

42:29

have. Most of the time. Yeah, well,

42:31

let's leave on this the fight for

42:33

sobriety and the journey you've

42:36

had and been on. What do you want

42:38

to tell others out there who are struggling, Like

42:41

my man, don't be afraid

42:43

to open up about it. If you're struggling,

42:46

talk to somebody, and like, I don't give

42:48

that lip service. There's other guys on

42:50

on Twitter who I talk to, who I know personally,

42:53

I answer messages when somebody

42:55

says they're fucking hurting. I mean, like I

42:57

really I don't give that lip service

42:59

because it is like there needs to be somebody

43:01

to listen, and there needs to be

43:04

somebody to listen when somebody really needs to

43:06

reach out. So reach out and

43:08

fucking find some and be if you can be

43:10

of service and be the person to listen, do

43:12

that, you know, I mean, you never know

43:14

what you're gonna affect, so and

43:17

you never know what another person is going

43:19

through, and sometimes it just takes an

43:21

ear, you know, to help help them

43:23

get through their day. Right, there's

43:25

a lot, like I said, there's a lot of strong people who

43:27

have run their fucking cars in the walls because they've

43:30

never just opened up, you know, And

43:32

that's that's the that's the truth, Isaac

43:35

Man. I can't thank you enough for

43:37

coming on the show. Um. I think

43:39

the world of you and much continued

43:41

success. My door is always

43:43

open to your brother. Thank you, man, say,

43:46

I appreciate it. This was this is a good time and it's

43:48

nice to actually finally talk to you and not just see a

43:50

block or charge you know here, all

43:54

right, man, thank you so much. All right,

43:56

thanks man, talk to you soon. Seven

44:00

Runniens with the charges ship

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Lee, Sender, tenors and ballers and charges

44:04

the Celebrity gang forms and charges.

44:06

We came along way from living lawless charges

44:09

selling a Runniens with the charges

44:11

shot Lee, Sender, tenors and ball ass and charges

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44:16

We came along way from living lawless charge

44:20

charge