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Karen (00:12): I've had the opportunity this year to engage with the New Teacher Center, both as an equity commissioner and in deep conversation with their student committee. In this episode, you'll hear from the New Teacher Center's chief program officer, Atyani Howard, and chair of the New Teacher Center Student Committee, Carlo Ramirez Truz, as we discuss how the organization's new framing for its work centers on students and empowers educators. As usual, you'll hear me push this discussion to get them to more deeply define who and what we mean by educators and learning environments. Karen (00:48): Welcome to Carlo and Atyani. I am so glad we're getting this conversation started. I spent a little bit of time prepping for this, thinking back about our conversations, and looking at the wonderful new website, and there's so many powerful statements there. When you go to the website, you see these big words that say, "Centered on students, advancing equity. Everything we do starts with the student. We partner with school districts to co-create thriving, inclusive cultures, where all students succeed in heart and mind," and then you described three strategies. "Humanizing teaching, empowering educators," that's the first one, "Disrupting the system," and then, "Time to expect more." Karen (01:29): I wish we had time to zoom in on all of those, but we're going to start at the top and talk about this idea of centering on students. I'm in a lot of education conversations, and I hear a lot about student-centered education, learner-centered education, personalization, culturally responsive. So Carlo, I just want to turn to you, as a student. When you hear a term student-centered education, and especially as you've been working with NTC, what does this mean to you? Carlo Ramirez Truz (01:58): Yeah, definitely. I think that in my time working here at NTC that I've learned that each student is different, and the needs that they are going to need, some are going to be really good at math, some are not going to be so good at math. Just like me, I need some extra help when it comes to reading, and that I need some help with those focuses, some extra help with that, and I've learned that at NTC, we need to focus more on the individual student needs for them to strive in their school and do well in their learning at school. Karen (02:39): Great. We're talking about student-centered education, and you're giving me an example of how you may need extra help in math, and that's sort of really thinking that way, but let's come out of the school. Where else do you spend your time, where you think learning happens and engagement happens that's valuable to you? Carlo Ramirez Truz (02:56): I think that that's a tough question to answer, definitely for me. I would say definitely where I'm definitely constantly learning is definitely on the soccer pitch with my teammates and my coach. I've learned a lot on, I think, sportsmanship, teamwork, and a lot on working with others and treating other people with respect and losing and winning together, and I think that my coach and I have a great bond from that, and I always love enjoying learning new things from him. Karen (03:37): That was a great answer, and it's a very specific answer to that question, even though you had to sort of pause and think, "Where else am I learning?", but once you sort of picked a place, you were able to tell us some really specific things that you're learning. Karen (03:49): Atyani, is that common that we're so focused on sort of students and academic learning that when we ask young people where learning happens, there's a pause? Atyani Howard (03:59): Absolutely. I think we have centered the classroom, and when it comes to how we think about exploring the ecosystem and pulling it into how we think about amplifying academic learning, I think we have a very, very long way to go to truly integrate that philosophical stance into how we structure school, and what we privilege and what we value. Karen (04:28): That statement that you just made feels like it connects directly to the other half of the big sentence on the website of advancing equity that we really have to focus in in this broader way of thinking about young people in order to really get to equity, but we could talk a lot about equity and what that means. It's another of those words that is in everybody's mission statement. What struck me as different about yours is not only that you talked about humanizing teaching, but you led with it. Can you say how that ended up being the top priority and what do you mean humanizing? Atyani Howard (05:02): Yeah, so I think just philosophically, the way I view teaching, it is a human exchange. So in order for that to be true, we have to center humanity as much as we center the technical elements of the craft of teaching, and if we reflect back on some of the unfortunate impacts of reform agenda over the last 20, 30 years, we've really gone quite far into privileging, centering, valuing the technical elements of craft, and our theory at NTC is really that we need to come back into balance. We need to have a new conversation about what the purpose of education is, and our belief is that the purpose is to really support people in shaping their own experience and creating agency and access for them to apply criticality and understanding to whatever it is that they want to contribute to the world. Atyani Howard (06:08): If that's the orientation to the purpose, then the process has to come into alignment with that, and we talk about disruption and inequity. It reminds me of what Grace Lee Boggs says. You can't create that kind of disruption exclusively by struggling against institutions. You also have to support the people who comprise those institutions with making philosophical shifts and becoming truly more human human beings. So at New Teacher Center, we are really thinking about, "How do we help educators really weave a web of connectedness between themselves, their content, their craft, and who their students are in ways that disrupt and create high quality experiences that lead to true and lasting equity versus equity around the edges?" It's a concern of mine in terms of really moving and making progress towards true equity, which would look something like schools actually being fulcrums in communities, and particularly in marginalized communities that remove obstacles and allow people to thrive, not just sort of comply to survive. Karen (07:31): Carlo, when you just talked about your soccer coach, I got a really immediate sense that you have a bond with your soccer coach and with your team. When you, as the head of the student advisory council, sort of look at this big goal of humanizing teaching, what does that mean to you, and does that apply to your soccer coach? Carlo Ramirez Truz (07:49): Yeah, I think that a lot of the things that my soccer coach is doing, I think need to get reflected in the classroom. I think it's really key to know who your students are and all their individual needs and how they work, what's going on with their life, to see what's actually truly happening in the classroom, and to really, I guess, create the best environment and learning environment for not only just the individual people in your class, but I think all of your students in your class. Karen (08:25): So why is that easier for your soccer coach to do than your math teacher? Carlo Ramirez Truz (08:31): I think most of us are there to play soccer, really, and to get better together and to win. I think that when everyone shows up to math at 8:15 in the morning, not a lot of people are going to be that motivated to do math, and to be really focused, especially when they don't like that subject or they didn't get enough sleep last night because of certain things that were happening with them in their life, and I think that it's really key for the teacher to really know all these things outside of school and inside their classroom about their student to really get that kid who's unmotivated, tired, [inaudible 00:09:19] of class, to really enjoy math and to feel like it's not a drag. Karen (09:26): I love the fact that you started with, "We're all there to play soccer because we want to be there to play soccer. We want to get better. We want to win as a team. We want to get to know each other." Is that what we mean by humanizing teaching... Somehow knowing that it's really important to have math skills and literacy skills, and we want those skills, but is there some way to build those skills while really getting what you said, which is a much more human experience where there's time and space to get to know each other and to build those skills in the context of an interest. Does that get closer to what we mean by humanizing teaching? Carlo Ramirez Truz (09:59): Yeah, definitely. I think that from all the history of teaching to this day, it's taken a long time to evolve a great teaching style, and I think that for especially creating this sort of atmosphere that I have at soccer practice and to relate it to, I think, math and English and all the subjects that you learn at school, I think it's very hard to, and I think, though, with extra care for your students and actually wanting to help them generally to succeed in your classroom, and for all of them to succeed in your classroom, I think is really key to elevate what you want from your students. Karen (10:55): So Atyani this phrase, "Humanizing teaching, empowering educators," you put those two things together as one. What do we have to empower educators to do in order to give them permission to humanize teaching? What are we empowering them to do? Atyani Howard (11:11): I think we're empowering them to view teaching as an extension of themselves, and if you view it that way, and there's so many pundits we talk about, we really teach more of who we are than the subjects that we teach or the pedagogy that we know, and yet we've spent a lot of time as a field diminishing that element, and we've also never really designed schools from that premise. So for me to feel empowered to create the kind of... I love the word Carlos used, "atmosphere," where children feel seen and valued and understood and supported and can bring their selfhood into the academic space to achieve some of the energy that Carlos is describing that happens on the soccer field in the math classroom, teachers have to have those kinds of experiences as well. Karen (12:13): So I want to keep moving through these words and digging in. So we said empowering educators, and we talked about the word "empowering," and now I just want to turn to this word "educators". I read lots of things in which we say educators, but we really then sort of fall back to mean teachers. When you say educators, who are you referring to as New Teacher Center? Atyani Howard (12:32): So for sure, it's the folks touching the spine of the instructional program, and I think one of the awakenings that we're having is how to broaden that in a way that capitalizes on what we are good at, but also allows shifts in educators mindset about how they can value and leverage other adults in the building who are supporting student learning and experience. Our theory of change, as it relates to disrupting systemic inequity, really has broadened how we think about educators to include any educator from the chief academic officer to the classroom teacher that touches the spine of the system and influences how students experience school on a day to day basis within that school or district or whatever unit of change we might be working with. Karen (13:34): Interesting. So what does educator mean to you, Carlo? Carlo Ramirez Truz (13:37): I think someone, a role model that will help you and educate you just not only on, I guess, subjects that we learn at school, but I think subjects overall in life too, and that are key figures in, I think, your life that guide you. That's my main overview. Karen (14:03): At school, has anyone ever asked you who the other educators are in your life? Carlo Ramirez Truz (14:08): Never. Never. Since I came to NTC, I've heard that a lot, and I've literally never heard it before coming here. Karen (14:18): Well, I loved your definition of what an educator is, and I think that's one of the conversations we want to have. Karen (14:24): Atyani, in one of the times that we talked, you were reflecting on being a principal, and I was talking about the fact that whatever the statistics are, young people spend a good amount of their time, and there's a good number of staff who are not in classrooms and are not teachers. So when you think about whether it's on the soccer field, it's in the cafeteria, it's in the counselor's office, the library, you're on the buses, you spend a lot of time in settings that are not those formal academic classes, and you have a lot of people in the building who are not those formal academic teachers. So we talk about learning happens everywhere, and we talk about the ecosystem, but how do we bring those people in and leverage them in this conversation, and how do we speak to Carlos's definition of educator, which is somebody who's got something relevant to teach me and is going to take the time to get to know me? Are we missing something by not paying attention to the rest of those people and the rest of that time in the building? Atyani Howard (15:25): We absolutely are, Karen, and that conversation. I remember thinking, wow, philosophically, I believe that every part of the child's day is important, and that's why experiential learning is important, and things like advisory are important, and all these structures that we create. It never occurred to me to look for those adults and include them in the conversation about might be happening and how we might craft a plan that was holistic, and grounded in a holistic understanding of who the child was and what some of the issues are that we need to support them with in order to address the concerns, and that's such a small, but massive shift. It's an existing structure that's in the vast majority of schools in this country, and it's not doing anything fancy. It's just saying, "Hmm, I have to know who knows this child outside of the academic setting, and include them in this structure, and really value and center and privilege their wisdom and their ideas to support the child holistically." Atyani Howard (16:37): I was hearkening back to how many students I had who loved the PE teacher or loved the art teacher, and I think part of what was underneath that love for them was less of the rigor, negatively in this sense, that produces that fear, and then if we link that to learning science, we know that when we're in a state of fear, we are not able to create the optimal environment for learning and really meet our full potential, and so just putting all of that together, that's really, for us at New Teacher Center, part of what we're trying to push against, is teaching as human exchange among all of the human beings that come together to shape human experience in this way, and how do we begin to privilege and value that as much as we do all of the technical components that are also a part of school? Karen (17:40): I think it's an ambitious goal. One of our colleagues, Ron Berger from EL Education, said this very powerful thing. He said, "The student culture can never be ahead of the adult culture." So we can talk about climate and culture and all these things, but he basically said, if we haven't really gotten humanity into the group of adults who are supporting young people, they're going to feel that. They're not going to feel that they're walking into a community. I want them to walk into a community in which everybody is not just welcoming in the artificial, "We'll all go down the hall and do high fives," but everybody really is there and present and has had the kind of training and support and interaction with each other to feel that they are that adult community that's supporting. Karen (18:29): If we could charge them, if we could have a broader goal of talking about humanizing experiences, it might make the job of the teacher easier. It might mean that students are coming in there or leaving that room with someone else to talk to. So I'm just going to ask you all, as we're sort of wrapping up, to just reflect on this conversation about broadening. The goal is incredible to really think about how we humanize teaching or humanize experiences, intentional experiences that we're providing for young people, and how we really empower adults who have this broader education role that Carlos said, but as we're doing that, in order to disrupt the system, I'll just sort of lead you all with, where do we start and what exactly is the system that we're disrupting? Atyani Howard (19:20): I think it's twofold. One, it's shifting... Not even shifting, it's a complete reimagining of what school can be and do, and again, I think as a field, we've tinkered around the edges of that, and part of what the last couple of years have created an opening for is a complete reimagining, and that's what we're trying to do at New Teacher Center, is articulate, what could a school where educators and students are humanized and challenged and balanced... What does that look like? How do you begin to do that? Atyani Howard (20:02): Karen, what you've said to me is we can keep the box of school, the container, because it has to be there, and it's the structure we have to work with, but what's happening within that box, and the purpose of that box needs to be radically reimagined, and then articulated, and then we need to help educators not only have access to the learnings, but the experiences. Karen (20:29): Carlo, I'm going to give you the last sentence or two. So you've got this student advisory council, you've got this big, ambitious set of goals that you're looking at. What's your hope for what your advisory council can really bring into this process? Carlo Ramirez Truz (20:46): I think it's also definitely key with this restructure to have student voice in this discussion and student experiences, and I think that's what we're trying to build at NTC with this committee to have more student voice and this reimagining of the school systems, and I think that our goals for this committee really are to get student voice everywhere at NTC and have better feedback from students. It will create, I think, a new reflection on the work that NTC is doing, with students in front of it, and I hope that this sort of reflection happens from the students in all parts of education, and that we have better feedback for education as a whole and the system. Karen (21:49): Wonderful. Well, Carlo, I encourage you to encourage your other advisory council members to bring all of their stories about where learning is happening into the conversation, just like you brought your soccer coach in, and Atyani, I'm going to keep pushing on this conversation of how we really sort of think about out how we get this broader group of people fully engaged, because if we have the phrase, "Learning happens everywhere," and we talk about all adults and the importance of experiences, it's really time for us to count them. So I appreciate the conversation. Karen (22:25): So what are the takeaways from this discussion that can help us from being satisfied that we've helped a few young people beat the odds to implementing strategies that will actually change the odds? The power in today's episode came in that first question to Carlo. Where outside of the classroom is he learning? Karen (22:42): As you walk away from today's podcast, I encourage you to take time to ask the young people you work with in your personal life where they are learning, then dig in. Who are the adults in that setting? How do those adults center the young person? What are the supports provided to the adult to humanize and empower them? If those settings aren't ones with which you're already partnering, what would it look like for you to begin to develop that partnership? As you hear from the young people, please tell me about it so that we can lift up your stories as we continue to remix these ideas. Speaker 4 (23:18): Please visit our website and YouTube channel to hear more of this conversation, and to learn more about the work of the New Teacher Center's Equity Commission. Join us for episode four, featuring Alin Bennett and Olivia Christensen, with Education Reimagined.