0:00

I think people are kind of fascinated

0:02

by tragedy. You're on an airplane, something

0:04

happens. The probability is you're not going

0:06

to survive. We were primarily tasked with

0:08

recovering crash victims. We

0:10

had about, I don't know, a dozen

0:12

or so body bags filled with dead

0:15

people. On a stern on

0:17

a ship. We're all up in the bow, having a

0:19

nice time and having a burger. And

0:21

it was sort of a strange,

0:23

juxtaposition of things. I

0:26

think it reminds us of just how frail

0:28

we are as a species, but

0:30

how we've kind of given ourselves to

0:33

the technology and we trust in it in

0:36

a way that maybe we shouldn't, or at

0:38

least hold it to a higher standard. Hey

0:48

guys, welcome to another episode of the Chad Prather show. This

0:51

is fascinating. I'm ready to get into this conversation. I've

0:53

been looking forward to it. This

0:56

is cool stuff. I think people are kind of

0:58

fascinated by tragedy. I don't know what that is.

1:00

It's part of the human condition where we just

1:02

see major disasters that happen

1:05

and the mysteries that surround all

1:07

of those events. And

1:10

we try to unravel them. Conspiracy theories

1:12

are birthed out of them. We

1:14

just want to know. And I think a part of it is just

1:16

being part of the connected human thread.

1:18

And we realize that a lot of things could

1:20

happen to any of us at any given time.

1:23

And we want to know. We just want to know. We're inquisitive

1:26

people. And I'm

1:28

happy today to welcome to the

1:30

show a gentleman

1:32

by the name of Kurt Newport. He's

1:34

got a new book. It's called Ready

1:36

to Dive, Five Decades of Adventure in

1:39

the Abyss. Welcome

1:41

to the show, Kurt. You've spent a lot of time underwater,

1:43

man. Well,

1:46

not so much time underwater, although I have

1:49

been underwater. I did two dives of

1:51

4,800 meters and a mere one. And

1:55

I was a diver for a while and

1:57

did some work with some Necton, Manse, and Ralston. But

2:00

you know what, when you get down to the

2:03

deep stuff, it's all mostly remote work. Remote work,

2:05

yeah. I'm fascinated by that. I can remember as a

2:07

kid, you know, the

2:09

mystery is obviously the big story was surrounding

2:12

would anybody ever find the Titanic, right? And

2:14

then there was always that story that,

2:17

you know, people, they finally discovered it

2:19

in the debris fields and the two

2:21

parts of the ship that were broken

2:23

apart. And you know,

2:25

they're still telling that story, right? There's so

2:27

many things that are mysterious about different

2:30

events that have happened with

2:32

tragedy, disasters, everything from airplanes

2:35

crashing and going into the

2:37

sea and sunken ships and

2:39

so on. And we're coming

2:41

up on the one-year anniversary

2:44

of the Titan submersible that, of

2:46

course, imploded. I want to talk to you about

2:48

that a little bit because in June that'll be

2:50

a year that that's happened. And

2:54

it's amazing how time flies. We were all kind of glued

2:56

to our devices on that, trying to figure out what was

2:58

going on and what was happening. We'll get to that in

3:00

a minute. How did you get

3:02

into that world? I mean, that's fascinating to me. There's

3:04

so many questions I want to ask you, and I

3:06

want to ask the right questions. But

3:08

how did you come about? Like,

3:10

how does someone get into that

3:12

type of work of salvage and

3:14

rescue and finding some of

3:16

these deep sea mysteries that were out there?

3:20

Well, really, I mean, bottom

3:22

line is I kind of got into it by accident. I

3:26

always had an interest in

3:28

underwater exploration or deep

3:30

submergence vehicles. When

3:33

I was like 12 or 13 years old,

3:35

I read all these books about guys like

3:37

John Holland. And

3:40

I was

3:43

just fascinated by the technology that was going to

3:45

be used to go underwater. And

3:50

so I used to design submarines when I

3:52

was like 13 years old. I built

3:55

my own breathing apparatus

3:57

for going underwater. Then.

4:01

I guess when I was about twenty five hours.

4:04

Outta work looking for a job and

4:06

saw an ad in the Washington Post

4:08

looking for diving systems technicians for a

4:10

company called Ocean Systems and they had

4:13

a shop out and Chantilly was junior.

4:15

Right across as we from Redskin Park.

4:18

And so were down there and talk to

4:20

the guy that ran the shop and I

4:22

got the job and. I spent about

4:24

a year and a half building ship vendors. These

4:27

big. Pieces and so

4:29

on that you glued together and they go

4:31

between the ships and of dogs so wasn't

4:33

quite what I was hoping for. Not, you

4:35

know, I kind of stuck with it. and

4:38

those were three dollars or fifty cents an

4:40

hour by the while. And

4:42

then I eventually graduated to

4:45

building and testing. I did

4:47

saturation diving systems. And.

4:49

That was also in Chantilly and then

4:51

know later on a move their

4:53

shot down to Houston. Out

4:56

west. West. Of

4:58

town on the Katie Parkway and

5:00

I helped build the first Us

5:02

just a commercial fifty hundred foot

5:05

diving system. And I

5:07

did. Ever. While. Really? Wasn't making

5:09

much money and I set a world you know

5:11

the only guys have make money or the divers

5:13

side. Less. Hosts assistance. With.

5:16

A Commercial Diving Center of California.

5:18

Learn how to be a commercial

5:20

diver with Arab next gas and

5:22

then basically right when I graduated.

5:25

Most Assists hire me back to

5:28

be part of their first remotely

5:30

operated vehicle team. And

5:32

so I saw your phone. They're mostly

5:34

do it oil field work in the

5:36

Gulf of Mexico and the North Sea.

5:38

And then I. Went on

5:41

to do a lot of submarine cable

5:43

work with. A deity Tell a

5:45

globe? Cable and Wireless

5:47

people like that and then

5:49

eventually went on to do

5:52

Depot Scissors Recovery. And

5:54

I've. Pretty. much worked on the

5:56

same navy contract for decades it was

5:58

as hell but different companies.

6:02

Initially it was Ocean Search and then

6:04

it was Eastport International and then they

6:07

lost the contract to Ocean Airing Incorporated

6:11

and then Phoenix

6:13

International got the contract and

6:15

I worked for them for like 20

6:17

years and just sort of deep

6:20

ocean search and recovery on an

6:22

international basis. We

6:24

primarily did the deep stuff.

6:28

Anything beyond diver depth like 200 or

6:30

300 feet because we had

6:32

the equipment to do that. Hey guys

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Yeah and yeah I mean I was

7:53

recently on a cruise and

7:55

just in sheer layman's terms have you've ever been

7:57

on a cruise ship or

7:59

you know... On an airplane and you're

8:01

flying over the ocean you think something

8:04

big is going on here like this

8:06

is eat nothing into mean nothing makes

8:08

you feel more finite the than being

8:11

out over the middle of the see

8:13

ages realize how small you are. In

8:16

There really is this whole

8:18

world underneath you that you

8:20

can't see. Ah at it.

8:22

I mean the you talk

8:24

about talk to you know

8:26

born miles deep it is

8:28

In In. It's incredible. This

8:30

this place where human beings

8:33

can exist, they can't survive

8:35

and even. The

8:37

technology can't reach so when you

8:39

get into that is it's It's

8:41

fascinating. It is opening up a

8:43

whole new universe right? Wrote.

8:47

But I've. Actually, never been on a

8:49

cruise ship at us. Hell no advantage.

8:51

ever done it at this point of

8:54

don't do it is overrated buddy Ah,

8:56

apparent partnerships. But. He usually your

8:58

work both like car. Fleet

9:00

talks to eighty of class

9:02

yeah, Combat sours vessels era

9:05

class. Lot. Of commercial

9:07

vessels. You. Know it's like. You

9:10

know if you're like a greyhound bus driver? Know

9:12

you. Don't go to evict, You don't go

9:14

on of a case like a i had a

9:16

bus trip you know, as like. Yeah.

9:19

Been on plenty of ships, never been on a cruise

9:22

ship. Our server very nice. Farm.

9:24

But. Never done that. Overrated. And

9:26

and the funny thing about flying

9:29

as I remember. I.

9:31

Did a job. My first Big Salazar was

9:33

in Nineteen Eighty Five with on Air India

9:35

flight. one any to. As a

9:37

Boeing seven, forty seven that was

9:39

brought down by sick terrorists and

9:42

it's still the worse air disaster.

9:44

a seat. And.

9:46

I was on a job for five and a half

9:48

months. As always was be gone for ten days. In

9:52

oz. Single. Ah,

9:55

Didn't really. have any

9:58

responsibilities so i say there for

10:00

five and a half months. And I remember

10:02

when I flew home, I was sitting

10:04

on this Boeing 747 and I was sitting

10:06

right at the place where that aircraft

10:09

called the Kanishka had broken

10:11

in half. And like,

10:13

yeah, well, you know, if

10:16

it happens, it happens. I mean, there's nothing

10:18

you can really do about it. Yeah. I

10:22

remember you talking about air airline tragedies and you

10:24

worked specifically at least with some of the wreckage

10:26

and correct me where I'm wrong on this. Cause

10:28

like I said, I'm fascinated by this, but I

10:30

don't necessarily know the questions I ask in the

10:32

right way, but the TWA, TWA 800, which came

10:34

down over, um,

10:38

you know, Long Island, which

10:41

again, a lot of mystery, a lot of speculation on

10:43

that, was it shot down? Was there, you know, what

10:45

happened to the, you know,

10:47

the, there were some pretty descriptive

10:49

things that came out about that

10:51

crash and books have been

10:53

written about it fiction as well as nonfiction.

10:56

A lot of speculation that's out there. My

10:58

friend Nelson Demille, uh, wrote a book, I

11:01

believe the name of it was nightfall specifically

11:03

about that from a fiction perspective,

11:05

but it was interesting, very eyeopening, uh,

11:08

but you, you worked on that.

11:10

I mean, was that, was that like immediately after that

11:12

crash, was it some time had passed and then it

11:14

becomes a reclamation thing or, or how does, how do

11:16

you get involved with something like that? And then what

11:19

happened with it? It was, it

11:21

was pretty quick. I mean, we

11:23

were involved almost immediately. It was like the

11:25

plane went down. I mean, we

11:27

had assets up there in a matter of days

11:30

and the initial thing that

11:32

we're doing was to recover the remains

11:35

of the passengers. So

11:37

I worked on, well, actually I worked

11:39

on three different ships on that job. I worked

11:41

on the USS grass and

11:43

we were recovering

11:46

human remains and

11:48

that was using a, uh, we had

11:51

a small vehicle called the MR1 And

11:54

what I would do is fly the vehicle

11:56

down to until I found the deceased passenger

11:58

and then I would stay there. Drivers

12:00

will go down following umbilical down and

12:02

then they would grabbed it. The

12:04

person and bring a back on deck and

12:06

put it on body bags. And

12:09

then later on I worked on a ship

12:11

called the Us as ah. Gravel.

12:14

And. We were more

12:16

in the debris field of. Smaller

12:19

parts of aircraft just cut a clear

12:21

in the area. Than

12:24

I worth another ship whose name escapes

12:26

me. But

12:28

it was pretty grueling work. I mean cause

12:30

work and twelve hours a day. Seven.

12:33

Days a week. And the worst part

12:35

was the crooner ship hated us. Because.

12:38

Where they birth as they put

12:40

us in these temporary bunks in

12:42

their rec lounge where they did

12:44

recreation. And. So

12:46

then they can do that anymore. So they

12:48

were all pissed off at us and then

12:51

every morning about nine thirty there be some

12:53

guy dragon to fuel hose to. Fill.

12:55

A few a diesel fuel tank in our

12:57

room. And we got people in

12:59

are trying to sleep twenty four seven. And

13:02

so you never really got much

13:04

rust. and there was also a

13:06

computer training room in the back.

13:08

People cabinet do their training and

13:10

so it was kind of difficult.

13:14

And. What was funny as. We.

13:16

Have a cookout one day. Up

13:19

and about the ship this is

13:21

on the grab the grasp and

13:23

we got this cookout. go on.

13:25

Got burgers, hot dogs and stuff

13:27

like that. and on the certainly

13:29

ship we had about. A

13:32

dozen or so body bags filled with. Dead.

13:35

People. On certain a

13:37

shit burrow up and about. Have

13:39

a nice time. Haven't a burger and

13:41

a soda? Strains.

13:43

Juxtaposition of things like.

13:46

Sternly, Ship stuff. Yeah, bow.

13:48

the ship life. Ah,

13:51

it was kind of weird. Ah, but you

13:53

know we got the job done. we're work

13:55

and is what main rackets pile he

13:57

was probably. our know

14:00

10 or 15 feet above the

14:02

mud line maybe 150 feet

14:04

in diameter just just this pile shards

14:09

of aluminum people passenger

14:12

seats you name it it's just

14:14

there and we're just picking

14:16

it apart trying to find uh passengers

14:19

and bring them up so

14:22

it's okay that's kind of depressing hey

14:25

guys you know the question about the next stock

14:27

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14:29

it's a matter of when there are just too

14:31

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14:33

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14:35

multiple fronts movement away from the US dollar on

14:37

the international stage a weakened job

14:40

market and a recent surge in stock

14:42

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14:44

other than investor overconfidence now what's

14:46

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14:48

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14:50

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14:53

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844-202-7834. Yeah,

16:15

I can only imagine. And I mean, you

16:17

know, the things that you find in just

16:20

the representation of human life, not only

16:22

the remains, but their belongings. I can

16:24

only imagine not only the morbidity of

16:27

that, but just

16:29

the gut-wrenching task of that. Like you said, you're

16:31

tired. And I'm assuming, like, when they bring these

16:33

ships in, I mean, I'm assuming these are just

16:35

ships that are in the area where you guys

16:37

can kind of station and do your work off

16:39

of that, that they don't normally do that. Would

16:41

that be correct? Or did they bring them in

16:43

for that purpose? No. We came

16:46

in from the base at

16:48

Little Creek, on the grass and

16:50

grapple. I mean, basically, when this plane

16:53

went down, everybody came there. I

16:55

mean, NOAA, the Navy, whoever, Coast

16:57

Guard, everybody converged on the

16:59

area. And we were

17:02

primarily tasked with recovering crash

17:04

victims. And when you

17:06

talk about the belongings of people, I

17:09

remember they recovered this

17:12

teenage girl once, and, you

17:16

know, we're kind

17:18

of like on deck looking through her belongings,

17:20

and I'm looking at her passport, credit

17:23

cards, and I'm like, well, I

17:26

don't think she thought she'd be here today.

17:30

It was really sad. But,

17:32

you know, it happens, and, yeah,

17:35

I don't really like flying anymore because of

17:38

that stuff. I mean, because – I don't

17:42

know. I don't have a lot of confidence left in

17:44

airline safety. I'll just put it that way. No.

17:47

I agree with you. As someone who has

17:49

to fly a lot, and

17:51

I'm getting on an airplane

17:53

tomorrow, so I'm constantly in

17:56

touch with that reality. And

17:58

These days, I have a lot of friends. The airline

18:00

industry as well who are either still

18:02

in it or retired and they just can't

18:04

shake their head at the conditions of

18:06

what's going on not only with the manufacturer

18:09

of but with the maintenance with the individual

18:11

airlines themselves. in the in the various quality

18:13

control is happening out a stick. Our scary

18:16

part of the bottom line as you

18:18

know, if. You have an airplane

18:20

suffered happens. The problem. Buddy

18:22

as you're not gonna survive right? Setting.

18:26

Assists the reality of it than. Yeah,

18:29

don't like airplanes. The L blinds. Well, you're

18:31

in a pressurized metal tube at thirty two

18:33

thousand feet. Breathe into a habit filter. Is.

18:36

The and on top of each other?

18:38

you know, and you're at somebody elses

18:40

mercy. Really in terms of are they

18:42

qualified? Are they capable and did the

18:44

right? Both get screwed in. Not

18:47

not only that, you don't know if this, you

18:49

know, maybe this guy had a bad day. get

18:51

a fight with his wife or something like that

18:53

the of nine Point pay attention to things. I

18:55

mean. Users. at

18:57

the mercy of like free guys in the for

18:59

an airplane and. I.

19:01

Don't like that? Yeah, it's a good point.

19:04

You're definitely out of control. Ah yes, it's

19:06

not. even I remember been a number of

19:08

years ago and that was it. That Egypt

19:10

air crash happened in. the guy basically just.

19:13

Committed. Suicide and many to stop the play

19:15

out. In a the

19:17

obviously they leveled off for a minute but

19:19

then he took it on down and eat

19:22

your at somebody elses mercy. Scary intimate. You

19:24

know everything about that. You look that people.

19:26

the people are fascinated with the tragedy stuff.

19:28

I mean it makes a but the of

19:30

a wild story a crazy story and I

19:32

I think it reminds us of just how

19:35

frail we are as a species, but how

19:37

we'd kind of given ourselves to. The.

19:39

Technology and we trust in it in a

19:42

way that maybe we shouldn't. or at least

19:44

I wanted to a higher standard. first

19:47

you been in the front row of so

19:49

much of this you know salvage wreckage

19:51

recovery process that i mean i can only

19:53

imagine the stories that are there and

19:55

by the way i'd add i want to

19:58

ask you did you ever for an opinion

20:00

on how TWA 800 came down. Yeah.

20:31

That's a tiny little thing and we

20:34

look for it and look for it, but we didn't find

20:36

it. But I kind of think

20:38

that's probably what happened.

20:40

Yeah. My memory may

20:42

be deceiving me, but I seem to remember that they

20:44

pretty much put that plane all back together, if I

20:47

remember right, when they got all the wreckage or they

20:49

at least laid it out quite

20:51

extensively. I think I remember the images of that.

20:53

That could be, again, my brain could be deceiving

20:55

me on that. No, that's exactly

20:58

right. And that's actually a technique for

21:00

crash investigation that was developed by the British

21:02

long time ago, I think back in the

21:04

1950s, where you take the aircraft

21:07

and you essentially take all the

21:09

parts and put it back together on some sort

21:11

of frame. And it gives you a better

21:14

understanding of how the thing came

21:16

apart. So

21:19

the British were

21:21

really good about doing that. It's

21:23

wild. And

21:26

again, I take it back to just

21:28

the vast galaxy underwater that's there when

21:30

we start talking about the depths and

21:32

the pressures that are there and just

21:35

the inability for humans to be able

21:37

to get to certain depths. I

21:41

think, again, to me, I think it

21:44

was amazingly groundbreaking in finding the Titanic.

21:46

And now it seems like they, there for a while

21:49

at least, they were making regular, if

21:51

nothing else, robotic trips

21:54

to the Titanic. I

21:56

mean, how much has that technology evolved

21:58

over the last decade? Hundred

22:01

years really to be able to

22:03

say okay, this is this is

22:05

unsociable and find able to now

22:07

is a reasonably seemingly routine thing.

22:09

Or is it rooting out? Well,

22:13

Everything is fine level of the have enough

22:15

money the best at a point of kind

22:17

of what it comes down to yeah ah

22:20

on the Titanic ah I actually pyro piloted

22:22

the first or oh v that ever go

22:24

on it on a ballot or been down

22:26

there with the. Was

22:29

whole submersible and he has slowed a

22:31

small vehicle off in the Woods Hole

22:34

submersible. but. They weren't controls

22:36

in the service and we actually were out

22:38

there with a Magellan seventy five and dove

22:40

on the rack and I was a first

22:42

time a true or of he had been

22:45

on Iran and was kind of a lot

22:47

of fun. Sir Lycra in a little playground?

22:49

You're a flyer on the ship and I'm.

22:52

A member of was flying and

22:54

Magellan seventy five around the around

22:57

the ship on about section and.

23:00

The. Project. Was reproduced

23:02

by Msnbc. And it

23:04

was a producer on who he

23:07

wanted like a really killer shot

23:09

or for the trailers. Zoe They

23:11

told me the arms. Or

23:13

can we wanted to go up to the

23:15

bow section and get right on the edge

23:18

of a bow and fly up really fast

23:20

and pop up above the deck and never

23:22

give them the shot? They won't even. And

23:24

so I I did that a few times

23:26

and hours. either too slow, are too far

23:28

away or something like that. They. Didn't.

23:31

Like it. So eventually I say okay

23:33

screw this and I put this vehicle

23:35

like right on the beds at a

23:37

bow and I saw it coming up

23:40

really fast and every reseller like freaking

23:42

out. And I was so

23:44

close to the bow. There's a towing

23:46

shackle on a Sunday Titanic and actually

23:48

brush set towing shackle with the lens

23:51

of this camera that we had. Been.

23:54

Barred. from woods hole i just popped

23:56

up about the bow there's always little

23:58

particle the settlements for Well, they got

24:01

their shot, you know. But Titanic

24:03

was a pretty cool wreck.

24:08

It was always one of my dreams

24:11

or goals to die on it, and I got to do that, and

24:14

that was a lot of fun. Hey, guys, the world may be going

24:16

down in flames, but it's not going to get me down. It's

24:19

not going to depress me. Nope, absolutely not. It

24:22

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24:24

the crazy stuff happening in our world. But it's not going to

24:26

ruin my day. You know why? Because

24:28

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24:30

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24:33

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24:35

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24:37

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25:38

I mean, obviously, that's a mysterious – that's a story.

25:41

And again, I go back to the tragic events of

25:43

history. There's

25:45

so many conspiracies around that. Was

25:49

it really the Titanic? Or was

25:52

it brought down on purpose? If you could deep

25:54

dive in all of this stuff, it's interesting to

25:56

me how whenever there's

25:58

mysteries surrounding – certain tragic

26:01

events of human history that wherever there

26:03

seems to be a vacuum that our

26:05

minds and our imaginations and our questions

26:07

and they just kind of rush to

26:09

fill that void and there's so many

26:11

things. And so we're just commenting constantly

26:13

on this quest, this search. And

26:16

so it fascinates me. I was – different

26:21

excerpts in your book, and we certainly don't want to give

26:23

away the book. Everybody needs to get a hold of this

26:25

book and read it because if this fascinates you like it

26:27

does me, I mean your anecdotes and

26:29

just your stories in this are incredible, and you've

26:31

got tons in each chapter. But

26:34

I was – I was – read

26:37

through this deal, and I

26:39

saw your takes on what

26:41

you did in terms of the USS Indianapolis. And I was

26:43

like, hey, that's – from the movie

26:45

Jaws. If people don't remember, Quinn is sitting

26:48

on the boat, and he starts pontificating about

26:50

the night the USS Indianapolis goes down, and

26:52

he's titled on that. I doubt he was

26:54

on it, and all the men

26:56

were getting eaten by sharks and things like

26:58

this. There's Steven Spielberg telling this through Jaws.

27:02

It's a compelling thing because the

27:04

Indianapolis was, of course, carrying certain

27:06

aspects of the bomb, right? And

27:09

it was a little boy. It was

27:11

carrying the plutonium core to the little

27:14

boy bomb, the plutonium – I'm

27:16

sorry, the uranium bomb. So

27:20

you – so I mean this is obviously

27:22

years after this happens, right? You got involved

27:25

with that. What happened with that? What

27:27

were you doing on that project? Well,

27:32

we had a search funded by the

27:34

Discovery Channel in 2000. We went out

27:37

and searched the area, had

27:39

a lot of technical problems. The

27:41

terrain was far worse than we thought

27:43

it would be, because at that time

27:45

– this was in 2000 – didn't

27:48

really have a lot of bathymetric data

27:50

on where the Indianapolis thing. So

27:53

we didn't find it. We searched about,

27:55

I don't know, 350, 400 square miles. And

27:59

Then – Seventeen.

28:03

I was asked to be a consultant

28:05

to Paul Allen to do an expedition

28:07

look for the Indianapolis because of fact,

28:09

I've been there before. I'd done a

28:11

lot of research as a new lot

28:13

about it. So I was hired by

28:15

him and we went out two thousand

28:18

and seventeen on the research vessel petrol

28:20

and we had a remus. Six thousand

28:22

a week and you know thing as

28:24

a me. There

28:26

was very little navigational data on

28:29

where the indianapolis actually saying there

28:31

was a position. But. As

28:33

it later turned, I was off by over

28:35

thirty nautical miles. So

28:38

it wasn't him. With that are surgery we

28:40

were looking for in two thousand. And

28:43

but what happened was when

28:45

the Indianapolis was. Seeming

28:47

was on the petty router to lady

28:49

golf or they pass in L a

28:51

C and somebody managed to figure out

28:54

the identity of that Lsd and that

28:56

give us gave us a position take

28:58

some where it was a particular point

29:01

in time for there are we able

29:03

to extrapolate out a figure out where

29:05

the ship likely was when it sank.

29:08

Might. Where. The ship was

29:11

actually found was about. Around ten,

29:13

ten miles from where I thought it was.

29:15

What's a Mac? I guess in the overall

29:17

scheme of things isn't too bad. Pretty precise.

29:19

I mean, you're searching on space the size

29:22

of Oklahoma. You. Know we

29:24

always big. I mean I'm a three

29:26

hundred square miles. it's a big spot.

29:28

Oh the I mean. The. Petrol

29:30

sorts of a much larger area

29:32

than that. And the thing is

29:34

for for that ship to be

29:36

found, it took somebody like Paul

29:38

Allen with deep pockets that. And.

29:40

He basically this that decided that okay we're

29:42

gonna have we're going to go out and

29:44

find new ship. I don't care how much

29:47

it costs were going to keep search until

29:49

we find it. In

29:51

fact, there was a phone call

29:53

between between him and ahead of

29:55

the Naval Her Heritage Command and.

29:58

Robert Kraft the. of Marine Operations

30:00

told him, said, well, we're going to go look

30:02

for the Indianapolis. And

30:05

the guy that headed the Harriesons command, I can't remember his

30:07

name, he said, well, how long are you going to look

30:09

for it? He goes, well, until we

30:12

either find it or I'm directed

30:14

to do something else. So he

30:16

just said, he didn't care how

30:19

much cost, you know, and the

30:21

guy was worth, I don't know, what, $16

30:23

billion or something. Yeah, we're going

30:25

to go find this ship. And that's really what

30:27

it took is for somebody like Paul Allen

30:30

to say, I don't care what it costs.

30:32

We're going to go find it. And

30:35

I'm glad he did that. Yeah, same. And, you know,

30:37

I mean, that's for those of you who don't know,

30:39

you should study up on that. I mean, that was

30:41

a major World War II tragedy. I mean, so many

30:43

lives were lost that the boat, you know,

30:45

turned over on its side, a lot of the life

30:48

jackets and everything else just floated off. And,

30:50

you know, it was

30:52

the worst loss of life in the history of

30:55

US Navy. Yeah. And the problem

30:57

with the life jackets, these were Cape Hawk life

30:59

jackets. They

31:01

only maintain buoyancy for like 48

31:03

hours. And after that, they don't

31:05

float so well. So after

31:08

a couple of days, it didn't matter if you had a

31:10

life jacket or not. Well, it was gonna be very difficult

31:12

to stay above water. And we

31:16

got a what a compliment of 1150 men or 1200 men, 327

31:18

survivors. Yeah. And they were found by accident, by a

31:20

guy flying a Lockheed

31:28

Ventura, do an anti

31:30

submarine patrol. He wasn't even

31:32

looking for them. And they were found by accident.

31:34

He said, Hey, I got a bunch of these

31:36

guys in the water, there's an oil slick. And

31:39

if he had not found them on that

31:42

day, it was like four or five

31:44

days later, there wouldn't have been any survivors.

31:48

That's amazing. And I mean, just the

31:50

sheer terror that those men had to

31:52

have gone through, not only, I mean,

31:54

just seeing the loss

31:56

of life that they saw, but just what they were up against,

31:59

like you said, I mean, I mean you're treading water,

32:01

there's sharks, and you're in the middle of the Pacific

32:03

Ocean, which I don't know if anybody's checked lately, but

32:05

that's a pretty big spot. That's

32:08

a reasonably large area to be

32:10

lost, and so it

32:15

kind of makes you wonder how

32:17

many mysteries are still out there. There's a lot of them,

32:19

and who just haven't come along with those deep pockets to

32:21

say we want to take a look at this? But it's

32:23

another one of the stories that fascinates me, of course, is

32:25

Liberty Bell 7 from Gemini 3,

32:27

Gus Grissom. Of course, anybody that's ever seen that

32:30

movie, the right stuff, I refer everything to some

32:32

Hollywood telling of it. The

32:34

capsule, the hatch blue, and

32:37

it sinks, and of course they lose the ability to

32:40

do their research on that Liberty Bell

32:42

7 capsule. And of course

32:44

Gus Grissom died later on in the Apollo 1

32:46

with the igniting

32:48

of the fire inside the capsule on

32:50

the launch pad. But you

32:52

got involved with the reclamation of that too. That wasn't found

32:55

for what, 38, 40 years after

32:57

that capsule sank, right? It was 38

32:59

years. Wow. In

33:01

fact, we brought it back to Port Canaveral

33:03

38 years to the day after it was

33:05

lost. And I can't

33:09

even explain to you why I pursued that

33:11

for so long that I

33:14

think I worked on that project for 14 years. Wow.

33:18

I just thought it would be a really

33:20

fun thing to do. And

33:22

once I had completed my

33:24

research, then it was a problem

33:26

of finding someone to pay for it. Yeah.

33:28

And eventually we did. And

33:31

we got lucky. I mean, we

33:39

only had 24 square mile search area, which isn't very big

33:41

when you get 90 nautical

33:44

miles from the nearest land. Given

33:46

the technology they had in 1961

33:48

to track the spacecraft. But

33:52

it was within our search area. It was

33:54

about one-half mile in from

33:57

the west on the western side of our search

33:59

area. And we

34:02

found it on the next to last fill-in

34:04

lines. The fill-in lines, like you do a

34:06

general search pattern, and then

34:08

you always look under what's called the

34:11

nadir of the sonar, which is looking

34:13

directly underneath the sonar track. And

34:15

we found it on the next to last fill-in

34:17

line. And we had 85

34:20

sonar contacts after we completed our

34:22

search. We kind of looked

34:24

at them and evaluated them, got them down to about

34:27

15 that we thought were worth

34:30

investigating. And

34:34

Lodi Relsa was the first target we dove

34:36

on. And I just, quite frankly,

34:38

I just couldn't believe it. I mean, we went

34:41

down, we had problems, the weather was getting

34:43

bad, scanning

34:45

sonar, craft out. Eventually,

34:47

we got it working, and

34:49

we started seeing this debris going up the hill.

34:53

We followed it up. Bang. There

34:55

was a spacecraft. You could see the

34:57

United States, everything. And it looked exactly

34:59

like I predicted it

35:01

would look, because I'd done a lot of research

35:04

and the way it was constructed, and

35:06

it pretty much looked the way I

35:08

thought it would look. What emotion

35:10

comes over you when you – I

35:12

mean, you're in the abyss. I mean,

35:15

you're in darkness. And

35:17

then all of a sudden, boom, hey, there's something we

35:19

recognize. I mean, what do you – what

35:22

kind of aha moment comes over you when

35:24

that happens? I was

35:26

just shocked. I mean, you

35:28

know, 15 minutes

35:30

before, like, everything's going to hell, nothing's

35:33

working. I'm sitting there, got my

35:35

hands, you know, my face buried in my hands,

35:37

because everything's going bad, and I figured, well, we

35:39

just spent all this money, and

35:41

we're not going to find anything. And

35:43

then it's like, just bang, there it

35:46

is. I mean, it was absolutely unbelievable.

35:48

I just couldn't believe

35:50

that we had actually pulled it off.

35:53

And – How

35:56

deep was it? How deep was it? It

35:58

was a little over 16,000. Well

36:00

and you're looking for something the size of what

36:02

a small bathroom? Yeah,

36:05

I think there's like six feet in

36:07

diameter. Nine feet tall. Only

36:09

a small yeah, you know people have

36:11

trouble finding whole shipwrecks. I was trying

36:13

to find something that was way smaller

36:15

than one boiler from the Titanic. The

36:17

are literally account for. Doing.

36:21

So yeah, was hard and in the process

36:23

of getting that back up to the surface

36:25

hub delicate of a process is that I'm

36:27

in. I'm assuming you don't use stick a

36:29

winch on it and hauling it up. Growing.

36:33

We do kind of player. ah what are

36:35

what I had done in the early nineteen

36:37

nineties that I that. Develop

36:39

these special recovery tool set certain look

36:42

like inverted vices and there was this

36:44

one area in the capsule where the

36:46

escape care attached and if the escape

36:49

tower was used I would for like

36:51

twenty jews were acceleration so I figure

36:53

well as going be a really good

36:56

strong point in the space for ice

36:58

so I designed these tools. And

37:01

we. Put. Them on the

37:03

top the capsule have we done

37:05

in this sorcery and on connected

37:07

on a three point sling. And.

37:11

Euro. Lifland wasn't very big was about

37:13

to our. Of

37:15

five six nice of a diet or

37:17

five sixty seven. it's in diameter because

37:20

the capsule didn't way that much. I

37:22

mean, it was. In.

37:24

The launch phase was probably thirty five

37:26

hundred four thousand pounds, splashdown phase was

37:28

about twenty three hundred pounds, and I

37:30

estimated that it weighed about fifteen hundred

37:32

pounds from water. But.

37:34

Once we had a Tassos lines and we had

37:36

a line going from the capsule to the surface.

37:40

which is slowly pulled it up

37:42

and down. Took a

37:44

long time, like five or six hours. I

37:47

think we started lifting around dinnertime man, But

37:49

two thirty in the morning. It

37:52

was utter water surface. Well.

37:54

And it is our. That's. Amazing

37:56

and a I can't imagine the anticipation.

37:59

I. Mean, I know, what is. The catch a fish. And

38:01

you want to see it. And now

38:03

you have a little that thing up here like wow,

38:05

it's like this is real, This exists. Yeah I was

38:08

little nervous about it because of you know, a cousin.

38:11

In are you you're pulling something up

38:13

from underwater, the ships going up and

38:15

down as hearing up and down and

38:17

we the line goes slack. it goes

38:19

sites tight as is like cats of

38:21

assists and every once a while I

38:23

go check the line is like or

38:25

of does anything there or not but

38:27

there was. ah but then as soon

38:29

as we got to sing on doc

38:31

you know this thing has so had

38:33

life pyrotechnics on an explosive devices. Fact

38:36

The fact that has think all the

38:38

so far bomb that was armed but

38:40

on detonator. Had eleven ounces the his

38:42

be excellent. Ah which is

38:45

similar to Tnt. So the.

38:47

Ones. As we got a back on dec them we

38:49

had to have a team. You

38:51

the experts come in and disarm the

38:53

spacecraft and find this device was they

38:55

did fairly quickly and we check that

38:57

over the side. And then

39:00

it was safe. Wow. That's.

39:02

How me nests? Fascinating at. It

39:06

is. I think the speculation of the

39:08

day was it Grissom had had accidentally

39:10

pop the hatch right but it landed

39:12

on the has confirmed Remember that story

39:15

correctly. In cause I open

39:17

up that that sound. Know.

39:20

I mean you know I read all

39:22

the posts like the briefings for that

39:24

Grissom had and at one point and

39:26

one of a deeply freezes have well

39:28

I don't see I gotta hit that

39:30

button but possibly I did but I

39:32

really think ah was or writer named

39:35

yours Leopold. He wrote a biography

39:37

on Grissom. And a

39:39

guy named Andy Sanders and

39:41

Uk who is really good

39:43

at reprocessing film footage. And.

39:47

They came up with this theory that. Shit.

39:50

On helicopters are are hovering are

39:52

they generate a lot of static

39:55

electricity. And. What?

39:57

They see arise was that. City.

40:00

Where you covered as capsule. As the

40:02

helicopter had a recovery poll call a

40:04

pelican hook. And they would

40:06

use that to attach the recovery

40:08

line to the top the capsule when

40:11

you get this helicopter after. Generating.

40:14

A lot of static energy or static

40:16

electricity and we think that would happen

40:18

is when when they touch that cat

40:20

so that recovery hook. That.

40:23

There was a spark that ignited

40:25

the. Resources on the

40:27

hatch. Now the way this has

40:29

worked was. There. Was a

40:31

plunger. And when you push at

40:33

plunger and he would. Like. A foreign

40:35

can. Like a pistol. It would. Hit.

40:37

You progression gaps while. Percussion.

40:40

Caps typically are made from

40:42

fulminated mercury. Doing. Some

40:45

you hit em and they go off

40:47

and they are very sensitive sachs electricity.

40:49

So what we think happened was at.

40:52

A. Time. Capsule Static discharge goes

40:55

down, sets off the person caps

40:57

and has bugs. And.i

41:00

think his footage that

41:02

he we process gotta

41:04

support that theory. That's

41:07

amazing. A I want to talk about this

41:09

Titan Submersible. This that to me is is

41:11

where. Where. Deep

41:13

Sea and Money were normally you've

41:16

got a salvage situation in it.

41:18

Takes money to the i think

41:20

this is what caused that tragedy

41:22

right? I hear somebody with with

41:24

more resources than they had commonsense.

41:27

Ah n n everybody was kind of glued to

41:29

the Tv are glued to the news trying to

41:31

figure out you know this is what was it?

41:33

A crew of five or six. the get on

41:35

the submersible and go down. The

41:37

Recall: Five. I think it was five and

41:39

I think it is that time. We We

41:42

all pretty much had it in our mind

41:44

that they're what they. They were not alive.

41:46

What? What? What? What? Tell.

41:48

Me the story of that route refresh our

41:51

memories on that deal they just they got

41:53

on a submersible that was crazy safety violations

41:55

and just not worthy at it from one

41:57

I understand. And. or in history

42:00

Yeah, I can't remember the guy's name who ran

42:03

the company. Yeah, it escapes

42:05

me as well. I know it, but it escapes me. Well,

42:10

he wanted to create a money-making business

42:12

that would take tourists out of the

42:14

Titanic or other locations. And

42:17

the problem was that it wasn't really

42:20

a good design that was in line

42:22

with traditional methods

42:24

that you use to design deep

42:27

submersible vehicles. And it mostly

42:29

had to do with the materials. It

42:32

had titanium hemispheres on each end,

42:35

and in between the titanium hemispheres

42:37

was a filament-wound carbon fiber. Well,

42:41

there's not really a lot of data about that

42:45

type of material being used. I

42:47

mean, carbon fiber is really strong,

42:49

especially under tension, but under compression,

42:53

especially over repeated tensionings.

42:57

It's not clear how well it lasts.

43:00

And so people

43:03

would come up and spend a couple hundred thousand dollars,

43:05

$250,000 to go down on this thing. And

43:09

they got away with it for a while, but

43:11

then eventually it kind

43:13

of caught up to them. And

43:15

the thing is, I knew somebody on that submarine. I knew

43:18

P.H. Narsolite. And

43:22

myself, if I was given the opportunity, I don't think I

43:24

would have gotten in it. I mean, I've

43:26

been in a submarine. I've been down that deep. I've

43:29

been deeper. But I

43:31

was in a Russian submarine. The hull

43:33

was made out of nickel-steel alloy. It

43:35

had been proven. No worries. I

43:37

was diving with the head of the program. I didn't

43:39

have any problem with that, and it was fine. But

43:43

this thing – I mean,

43:45

he bragged about the fact that he bought

43:47

this carbon fiber. He

43:50

got a great deal on this carbon fiber because it

43:52

was out of date. It

43:54

was past its service life. Well,

43:57

and he was telling his customers that.

44:00

And I'm like, well, Gee, I

44:02

don't have I heard that I'm I'm not sure I

44:04

want time and and I. I

44:06

mean. And the

44:08

other thing was. Their

44:11

method of launching the sing the they

44:13

had like this pontoon boat is not

44:15

that that hasn't been done before but

44:17

that's really not a proper way to

44:20

launch a d submersible vehicle. The other

44:22

thing was they had no rescue capability.

44:24

On your support your. Self

44:26

anything happened. They got stuck in a bar and.

44:29

Nobody's gonna come and get I'm I mean

44:32

just organ my going on a six thousand

44:34

meters. The. Just aren't. Vehicles.

44:37

Like a just laying around over the

44:39

place. I mean you takes time for

44:41

than the get there and even if

44:43

they had been just trapped on bottom

44:45

and still alive it is doubtful that

44:47

anybody could have rescued them in time.

44:50

So. It. Was just a

44:52

bad design. And are yeah easily you know

44:55

you learn from it, you know current you talking about.

44:57

know what you know? would not want to get on

44:59

there. I don't know anything about it now wouldn't have

45:01

wanted to get on there. I mean I don't know

45:03

what the Ps I is on that type of you

45:05

know that type of pressure in that type of deaths

45:07

or anywhere close to that but is gonna be. A

45:11

us like or see twelve thousand feet.

45:14

For five thousand? Ps. I yeah, I

45:16

mean, that's that's just the Aegis get.

45:19

Immediately squished. I. Mean it.

45:21

that implosion again. I'm I'm in. It was

45:23

be instantaneous, right? I. It's all

45:25

over and less than a millisecond.

45:27

I mean, it's quick. It's so

45:29

quick your brain doesn't have time

45:32

to register was happening. Or

45:34

and you know the other thing was there on

45:36

are saying. Even.

45:38

If they been able to surface, you know if

45:41

there was a problem, they came up at a

45:43

surface they couldn't get out of it. I mean.

45:45

To. Get in lot of the saying you

45:47

had to open up the whole front hemisphere.

45:50

We can't do that of the things in

45:52

the water. so it was This in many

45:54

respects are really kind of. Bad.

45:57

design yeah i just the decision to

45:59

get on Like you said, they got away with it

46:01

for a little while, but then here we are. We're

46:04

coming up on a year of

46:06

that. The amazing

46:08

things that people come up with with

46:11

their brains, whether they're trying to make

46:13

money or adventure seeking or something like

46:15

that, I don't know. I don't

46:17

have that gene inside

46:19

of me, Kirk. Well, I mean, there's a

46:21

way to do that sort of thing and

46:23

do it safely, but with

46:27

a properly designed, deep submerged

46:29

vehicle. But whether you can make any

46:32

money at it, I don't know. I mean, it's

46:34

really expensive to operate these things. I mean, when

46:36

we go out on these jobs for the Navy,

46:38

you get a big, large dynamically positioned ship,

46:40

you get all this equipment on it, $60,000

46:43

to $100,000 a day. So you're going to have to pay

46:45

a lot. You're

46:47

going to have

46:49

to have passengers pay a lot to be able to do

46:52

that and make any money, which

46:54

is obviously, I would think is the

46:56

ultimate goal to make money, but

46:59

you can't do that. Well, and

47:02

you retired, what, in 22? Did I read

47:04

that? Yeah. In 22.

47:06

So one of the

47:08

interesting things that I noticed,

47:11

when you look up a number of

47:14

these different things that happened, these tragedies,

47:17

there's not a lot of name recognition for the

47:20

people who do what you do and what you

47:22

have done, right? There's not a lot of people

47:24

that are listed with who found this or whatever.

47:26

They just, you just read about it and

47:28

say, well, they found this. Well, who's they, right? So it's

47:30

sort of an unsung job from what I've seen. Now, maybe

47:32

I was reading the wrong stuff. I could be wrong, but

47:34

it just seems like it was kind of an unsung

47:37

thing that, you know, for someone

47:39

of not

47:42

only the expertise, but the risk involved

47:44

in finding these things and doing these

47:47

things. I mean, you were reading

47:49

the right stuff. It's just that, you know, when

47:51

you were working on your Navy contract and

47:54

when you go out to do a job like

47:56

this, there's a Navy representative. And

47:59

if anyone A talker the media's gonna

48:01

be him as not going to be a guy

48:03

like me or somebody else and as a kind

48:05

of the way it is in. Yeah

48:08

and and and I know you know what

48:10

does one last they will touch on and

48:12

I know Times Precious will let you go.

48:14

I am. You know I was. I was

48:17

watching a date myself. I'm fifty one years

48:19

old. I was watching when the Challenger exploded.

48:21

We were out of school. I. Think

48:23

I was in fifth grade. We

48:26

we were out of school for a snow day.

48:28

And. Happened I was a school when I

48:30

was a school and J F K got

48:33

shot. That's really saving you're going to date

48:35

you to yeah see how here So I

48:37

but I was out on a snow day

48:39

I was actually home alone. Ah and I

48:41

watched the Challenger explosion so forever etched in

48:44

my memory where I was one As it

48:46

is indeed mention J F K everybody has

48:48

those dates of of where they weren't. Certain

48:50

things happen but you are part of that.

48:53

Salvage. Processes? Well I'm he

48:55

was that it. That's off

48:57

of what Cape Canaveral, Florida.

49:00

Port Canaveral. Port Canaveral. So that area

49:02

that dealt with that very deep water

49:05

at that place. Ah no

49:07

a Well, the. The

49:10

area where the orbiter sof was

49:12

was will only about eighty see

49:14

him scuba diver Death Fear on.

49:17

The. Fucking are correct.

49:20

The the Left: ambushed Er Lana about six

49:22

hundred feet of water. Right hand Bizarro thirteen

49:24

hundred feet. Ah, So no

49:26

was it wasn't very deeply overall scheme

49:28

of things and. I

49:31

member I was actually visiting my brother

49:34

in California. And I was asleep

49:36

in the morning they came and woke me up The

49:38

said get up. The space shuttle just blew up while.

49:40

So I get up was a

49:42

T V course a show this

49:45

footage endlessly and. And there's

49:47

no question in my mind at that time that you

49:49

know. There's. No survivors

49:51

and on. Let's.

49:53

See, I had. Gotten. Back from the

49:55

Air India job and eighty Five in

49:58

November. And. January

50:00

hours. they call me until we need

50:02

help. I was down in Florida. Rocket.

50:06

On the recovery in a booster records

50:08

wanna switch to salvage ship called the

50:10

said our course. Had a couple

50:12

of etti turn craziness turn. it was perfect.

50:15

And. So. Are gonna for about

50:17

two and a half months. And

50:19

I would think that that a solid rocket

50:22

boosters it's filled with fuel. That to that

50:24

a pretty volatile situation right? That's.

50:26

That's a relatively dangerous reclamation

50:28

process. Yeah, well. they they

50:30

did the struck the boosters

50:32

after they broke off, and

50:34

the main external fuel tank.

50:37

But. Ah, the problem was they

50:39

didn't know how deal with us. I mean. They.

50:42

Didn't have a seizure in place for how

50:44

to recover. Booster. Record that

50:46

still hyperpower on it and there

50:48

were several inches of appellant and

50:50

all of a booster. Records: So

50:52

we basically ended up with ship

50:54

just stacked with tons of this

50:56

booster rockets and it has always

50:58

rocket fuel on it and. Was

51:01

therefore. Stole this was that of just

51:03

one. Piece. Or records caught fire. Just burn

51:05

a hole right through the ship. And

51:07

sink the ship. See.

51:10

How he would do that and

51:13

then we would offloaded periodically at

51:15

the Trident submarine base on it

51:17

was okay job. I mean. We

51:20

had lot of problems with a vehicle. But

51:23

ill. So I like that.

51:26

Like it's a it is. We had some

51:29

major storms down here in Houston in my

51:31

area. I two weeks ago and my dining

51:33

room flooded. That's about all the water I

51:35

want to deal with. Kurt. I had about

51:37

four inches. We had to change the floors

51:39

out. As about that, that's my depths. Okay,

51:41

that's about as far as I want to

51:43

be when it comes to the to wonder

51:46

in recovery process. The I think were ethically

51:48

got your stores law. A few hours later

51:50

he has like we're like really helpful a

51:52

thunderstorm the night before last? Yeah, you're getting

51:54

our stuff. Is like going back to the future. You're

51:56

getting what we had three days ago. europeans

52:00

history, Kurt, you really are, man. And I

52:02

want everybody to get the book. Um,

52:05

and I, it's, it's published by

52:07

Purdue. Uh, you,

52:09

you tons of tons of stories in there

52:11

and, and so many things that are vital

52:14

to the telling of these stories that are,

52:16

that are history and you're

52:18

a vital part of it, man, um, ready to

52:20

die five decades of adventure in the abyss. Kurt,

52:22

I gotta tell you, you don't look that old,

52:24

man. Oh, yeah.

52:26

Well, I feel that old. I

52:30

got a bad, I got a bad back

52:32

and it's from working on ships. In fact,

52:34

I don't really like the subtitle

52:36

of the book. The better subtitle would be 50

52:40

years of backbreaking work on noisy

52:42

ships. Cause, uh, man,

52:44

that back always hurts. Putting

52:46

up with shit on a ship. That's

52:50

true more than you know. I can only

52:53

imagine. I got

52:55

one final question. Have you ever

52:57

dealt with seasickness? Have you ever had that? Uh,

53:01

no, it didn't really, uh, I never really

53:03

gotten seasick, but I've, there've been a few

53:05

times where I didn't feel particularly well, uh,

53:07

when we were doing the 2000 expedition

53:10

for the Indianapolis, uh,

53:12

I dunno, I ate something for dinner and didn't

53:15

agree with me two o'clock in

53:17

the morning. I went up on the rail and

53:19

I just hurled and then I just spewed. Uh,

53:23

and a few times, you know, when the

53:25

weather gets really bad, nobody feels

53:27

well. I don't care what they say. And

53:29

if it's really bad, everybody's sick.

53:32

Uh, whether you vomit or not, that depends upon

53:34

the individual, but that's the only time I really

53:36

kind of like spewed a seat. I'll

53:39

tell you, Hey, listen, man, I, You

53:41

know, I Am so glad that we were able

53:44

to connect this, it has been a fascinating conversation

53:46

and I want people to get the book ready

53:48

to dive. I Really appreciate you taking the time

53:50

to spend with us, man.. This, oh, you're, you're

53:53

a good guy. I Love you, man. Hey, I

53:55

appreciate that. Kurt. And, and, and likewise, I, this

53:57

has been fun. I, I really have a bit.

54:00

I've been looking for the to conversation because

54:02

this this stuff just fascinates me so I

54:04

am encouraged people to get a of the

54:06

book and in i read it devour it

54:08

and in gay friends about it's of thanks

54:11

man thanks you I mean are you able

54:13

to enjoy the retirement or you dear miss

54:15

it at all of her as our these

54:17

days handling does the for i'm of the

54:19

heel in the back. And

54:22

I get Maya Spiral Trust

54:25

for that.not. In I

54:27

gotta keep busy in ah it's like I

54:29

don't like sitting around Saw when I retired

54:31

I bought this nineteen fifty nine Austin Healey

54:33

Sports Car nice and of and partner wrong

54:35

with that for not two years. And.

54:38

If I get it working pretty well. It's.

54:40

Not strand a me. So. That's

54:42

what I'm doing. Take care of that car. I

54:45

got some are. Black. Powder

54:47

Rifles I shoot Yen. And.

54:49

Course haven't spent a lot of time writing.

54:52

Oh. No, I probably get another book in a

54:54

but it's a lot of work and you're

54:56

here for the policy. Hurt people A lot

54:58

of people don't realize it's a lotta work.

55:00

it's a lot of were tremendous amount of

55:02

work. Ah Kirk Thank you May get the

55:04

book ready to dive is put up or

55:06

do check it out you'll enjoy it. For

55:08

those of you listening watching Ah Go to

55:10

podcast are offered leave us a rating. Interview

55:12

five stars is what we deserve. We do

55:14

appreciate our audience. It's a it's a big

55:16

audience and we're thankful for each and every

55:19

one of you and I think you Kirk

55:21

for Cabin on the show in. Just remind you

55:23

gonna stay family and friends about the show. were always haven't

55:25

flown over here in and it's good time. You never know

55:27

what you're going to get so until next time know that

55:29

we love you and God bless you will talk to them.