0:00

Liz Kennedy: Welcome, everyone to Careers and coffee. I have

0:03

with me today a very special guest We're joined by Des Moines

0:05

Bureau Chief Erin Murphy. Erin, welcome to the Careers and

0:08

Coffee podcast - your first time here. Erin Murphy: Yeah, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

0:14

Liz Kennedy: Awesome. So, um, we have a lot of great journalists

0:17

at The Gazette. And I think it's important that we have

0:19

conversations with them about what's going on with Iowa

0:21

Workforce. And Erin, you wrote a story recently, where you talked

0:25

with the state economist, and I was hoping you can maybe give us

0:28

a little bit of information about that story, it was all

0:30

about how Iowa's worker losses will be difficult for us to

0:36

recoup. So can you talk to us a little bit about that?

0:40

Erin Murphy: Yeah, absolutely. It was interesting, because I

0:43

think a lot of us have heard and especially if you follow the

0:48

news regularly, you've probably heard about the workforce issues

0:50

that are out there. And it's not that part of it is not unique to

0:56

Iowa, a lot of states are dealing with that still coming

1:00

out of the pandemic, that a lot of workers just didn't return to

1:04

the workforce. And so a lot of businesses are having difficulty

1:08

hiring and that worker shortage is is very prevalent. What was

1:13

unique and interesting, in this discussion that I had with Peter

1:18

Orazem who is a professor of labor economy, economics at the

1:23

Iowa State University, was how he talked about what may be

1:29

somewhat unique to Iowa, could be the difficulty that our state

1:33

will have recouping those workers making up for those

1:37

losses. And, and some of the reasons why that is so so while

1:42

the problem is, like I said out there for every state, Iowa may

1:47

have a harder time rebounding from from this than other

1:51

states. Liz Kennedy: Does that kind of tied to our slow or non existent

1:56

population growth? Is that kind of what he's referring to?

1:59

Erin Murphy: Yeah, that is a big part of it. That has been an

2:04

issue in Iowa for boy more than a decade. Now. The, like you

2:10

said, I think you put it well, slow to border line non existent

2:13

population growth here in Iowa, we've lagged far behind the rest

2:17

of the country in population growth. So that's a big part of

2:21

it. Another part of it, and it kind of links to another sort of

2:28

story that I wrote that's kind of tangentially related to this

2:31

a little while back, is the issue with Iowa, so called brain

2:36

drain, which is young people who are raised and educated here,

2:42

but then leave the state to join the workforce elsewhere and

2:46

don't come back. So I was a little older than the average

2:51

population. So we have more people retiring, and fewer young

2:55

people staying in the state and replacing those workers who

3:00

either retire or leave or leave the state for other reasons. And

3:03

we don't, as we just talked about, our population isn't

3:06

growing, we don't attract a lot of people to the state, either

3:10

compared to other states. So all that kind of adds up, and is

3:14

what this economics expert was talking about what may make it

3:18

difficult for our state to recoup these worker losses.

3:24

Liz Kennedy: So that's really interesting, because there are

3:27

still quite a few job seekers in the state of Iowa that are

3:30

looking for work that are kind of you know, that would say that

3:33

they are struggling to find work, even though we have like

3:36

these kind of lots of positions that are either open now or soon

3:41

to be open because of retiring workforce. I don't know if you

3:46

have any thoughts on that? Erin Murphy: Yeah, I mean, I don't have the the magical

3:52

answer other than I know that part of what you're describing

3:55

there is a need to kind of match the skill levels that are

4:02

required for the jobs that are open versus the skill levels

4:05

that are in, possessed by our people who are working looking

4:09

for jobs right now. And maybe that's I know, that,

4:13

traditionally is an issue. And that's why there are state

4:16

programs designed to address that try to help people get the,

4:19

you know, skills for certain kinds of jobs, whether it's

4:23

trades or whatever it may be. So that may be where some of that

4:29

disconnect, is that the yes, there are some people who are

4:33

looking for work too. And maybe they just don't have the right

4:38

skills that match the jobs that are open right now. You will

4:42

hear people say that some of the jobs that are open aren't the

4:47

best paying jobs and that's part of the problem although you're

4:50

starting to see that change now too. I mean, if you look all the

4:52

way to the you know, the basic level where like, you know, fed

4:56

fast food places are starting to pay well above the minimum wage

4:59

now you know, not uncommon at all to see, you know, the

5:02

McDonald's and Burger Kings of the world's hiring for $15 an

5:05

hour in Des Moines anyways, I can say so. So yeah, so that so

5:11

that disconnect is still there to your right. And and yeah, I

5:16

didn't talk with Peter about that specifically. But I do know

5:18

that that that skills issue is something that the state has

5:22

tried to tackle. Liz Kennedy: So you talked about some programs at the state

5:26

level. And since you're covering kind of state, are you seeing

5:30

more conversations about those are just more news about the

5:34

different programs? It sounds like there's a lot of money

5:38

headed to community colleges to help people upskill. But, yep,

5:42

the reality is that it's always a lag between the job seekers

5:46

knowledge of those programs and their ability to get into those

5:49

programs. Erin Murphy: Yeah, yeah, that's a great point, I do hear a lot

5:55

of conversation around those kinds of programs. And I'm

5:58

guessing I will again, in a couple of weeks here, the

6:02

legislative session for 2023 will begin, I would be shocked

6:06

if this is not a topic of conversation, at least to some

6:10

degree, about what they can do to not only continue to sport

6:14

those existing programs, but maybe develop new ones or or add

6:18

more resources to them. So more funding to them, so more people

6:22

can take advantage. It will be interesting to see how that

6:28

discussion plays out right now. But I do expect to hear it. I do

6:32

expect state lawmakers to try to address this and in any ways

6:38

that they can. Liz Kennedy: Yeah, I think there's even this I don't think

6:42

it was your story. But it was Iowa City labor, apprenticeship

6:46

that they had going with like a smaller group down there, where

6:49

they were able to get all kinds of workers into an

6:52

apprenticeship program. And it was just a very grassroots

6:55

level. And I think they use like pandemic funds or ARPA funding

6:59

or infrastructure funding for that.

7:01

Erin Murphy: One of one of those. And yeah, and that's a great point, too. That's, I mean, there's so much of that

7:06

funding available right now, I don't know that the number the

7:09

percentage off the top of my head right now. But I know this

7:11

state of Iowa still hasn't gone through all of its federal

7:15

relief funding, and it's been putting money into programs

7:21

already. And I'm sure we'll see more. So there's opportunities

7:24

right now, without a doubt to to to bolster those kinds of

7:28

programs. So that's why I say it'd be very interesting to see

7:31

what legislators prioritize and what they've tried to address

7:37

this session. Liz Kennedy: Yeah, that will be interesting. Um, do you feel

7:41

like there's just kind of, I don't know if you are covering

7:44

this, but like, are there certain industries that you're seeing that are going to struggle more from this brain

7:49

drain or, or even this the retire? You know, there are some

7:53

businesses in Cedar Rapids even that have a large group of aging

7:58

workforce that may all retire relatively within the same

8:01

timeframe? Erin Murphy: Yeah, that's a really good question. I haven't

8:07

heard about any specific industry that's more worried

8:11

about that, then than others. I think it's fairly widespread.

8:16

It'll be interesting to see manufacturing, maybe, if that

8:21

could be an industry that's a little more on edge over this

8:26

than the others. But my sense is, and I think it's an

8:31

interesting question, it'd be a good one to put to some more

8:34

folks, like I've been talking to, but the is that it's it's a

8:37

pretty widespread issue. And there's no one industry that's

8:41

more concerned than the others. I think it's just, it's, it's

8:44

impacting everybody. Liz Kennedy: Do you think it's getting in the way of us, you

8:49

know, capturing new businesses to move to Iowa because we don't

8:51

have enough workforce? Or? Erin Murphy: I, it's hard to you know, I can't point to specific

8:57

examples. But it's hard to imagine that it's not having

9:02

that kind of impact, and, and all of those things that we

9:07

discussed. So if if there's a worker shortage, it kind of

9:10

creates its own vicious cycle, right? If there's a worker

9:13

shortage, then maybe businesses are more hesitant to come in.

9:16

And then if businesses are hesitant to come in, then

9:19

there's less reason for those young people that we educate to

9:22

stay here, you know, because the opportunities are somewhere else

9:25

instead. So and that's why what Professor Orazem had to say

9:32

about this was all interested. Interesting, because it's it's

9:36

tough to see what's the you know, the method or the approach

9:43

that kind of breaks that cycle and kind of gets I we're headed

9:49

in the right direction. One of the things that and I can't

9:52

remember if he said this, specifically, or I know at

9:55

talking to other business groups, I hear this a lot and I

9:59

apologize, I'm scanning My story he did say this specifically.

10:03

And I have, but I also have heard this from other business

10:06

groups is immigration. And that's one way that I will can

10:13

welcome new people and, and people who could potentially

10:19

jump in and join and help bolster the state's workforce,

10:22

you hear that a lot about the need for, you know, a good

10:27

strong immigration program at the federal level, and then

10:29

whatever reforms that need to come to make it so people who

10:34

want to come here, legally can't come here and, and find a home

10:39

and, and become members of the community, including members of

10:43

the workforce. And that's one thing I hear about a lot from

10:46

Iowa, economic experts and business leaders.

10:50

Liz Kennedy: So that's interesting. Do you kind of wonder if some of these things will kind of solved themselves

10:55

over time, just because we know that there's a decline in

11:00

students that Iowa high school is pursuing college degrees, so

11:03

they're gonna filter more into these community colleges, which

11:07

potentially could fill them into these, you know, jobs that no

11:10

one grows up thinking, I'm going to be this when I grew up,

11:13

because the job either didn't exist, or it's just really hard

11:15

to describe, you know, we were talking with a hospital and

11:19

like, how do you describe the role that is the central

11:23

sterilization role? You know, like, what is that worker

11:26

called? And, and, you know, what goes into that job? Is that a

11:30

rewarding career? You know, it's sometimes it's hard for these

11:33

businesses to just kind of explain the different jobs that

11:36

they have done, because they've evolved over the years and

11:39

changed and they require, you know, definitely skills and

11:43

expertise, but not necessarily a four year degree, you know,

11:47

Erin Murphy: yeah, and I think that's exactly the point. And

11:49

you are seeing a definite shift in that conversation about the I

11:56

feel like for a while there, and certainly, while I was growing

11:59

up it, the only goal was to go to a four year college, right, a

12:04

four year degree. And I think you are definitely seeing that

12:07

conversation shift in recent years. And it feels like it just

12:10

keeps growing and growing. And this whole situation may make

12:14

that conversation grow even more, because, because to the

12:17

point you're making there, there are a lot of jobs out there, and

12:21

not just, you know, jobs in the most basic sense, you know, good

12:24

careers, good paying jobs, that can be good careers that you can

12:30

be trained for, with a two year degree at a community college or

12:34

other kinds of programs. So you're definitely starting to

12:37

see that conversation shift. And just circle back to your to your

12:41

question. Yeah, I think this could potentially right size

12:45

itself. Eventually, you know, as as that conversation continues,

12:50

and more people kind of look to these kinds of careers, and that

12:53

kind of training, you know, right from the start, rather

12:57

than, you know, trying a different path and realizing

13:01

later in life that maybe a different route was better. I

13:08

think you'll see more young people starting on that path,

13:12

right from the get go. And maybe that helps us kind of, you know,

13:17

like I said, kind of right size this more naturally, huh.

13:22

Liz Kennedy: Well, this has been a great conversation. Erin, I think if we have any advice for job seekers, I think the picture

13:27

for Iowa is a little bit darker, you know, just not having this

13:29

population grow. But for the job seekers in Iowa, the picture is

13:33

a little bit brighter, because whether or not we go through a

13:36

recession next year, where there's a sluggish growth, there

13:39

will still be lots of employers competing for local talent to

13:42

fill positions. So the the opportunity plus the

13:46

opportunities we talked about with reskilling are growing in

13:50

iOS. So there is a lot of opportunity, if you're not in a

13:53

role that you like to reskill if you're having trouble finding a

13:58

role, you know, upskilling and, you know, taking advantage of

14:01

some of these programs. So we'll put all that in the show notes

14:03

along with Aaron's story. And thanks so much for joining us

14:07

for our first journalists careers and copy. I'm pretty

14:10

excited about this. Erin Murphy: Yeah, thanks so much. And it's a great topic.

14:13

It's a great discussion. It's a huge issue. And this story that

14:20

we you talked about, and then I referenced the one earlier, it

14:23

was some of the stories I've gotten the most reader feedback

14:26

on which is kind of surprised to me for all the things that I

14:28

cover. So it's obviously an issue that a lot of people are

14:32

tuned into too. So I think any conversation we can have about

14:35

it's a good thing. Liz Kennedy: That's awesome. All right. Well, thanks. You have a

14:37

great day. Erin Murphy: Thank you, Liz, you too.