0:00

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge new

0:02

seasons of Business Wars ad free

0:04

right now. Join Wondery Plus in

0:07

the Wondery app or on Apple

0:09

Podcasts. I'm

0:17

David Brown and this is Business Wars. I'm

0:31

the best

0:33

at Business Wars. Taylor

0:41

Swift has been everywhere this year. Literally.

0:43

She accepted two awards at the Grammys,

0:45

performed on stage in Japan for the

0:47

Heiress Tour and cheered on her beau

0:50

Travis Kelsey at the Super Bowl. And

0:53

this was all in the same week, if you

0:55

can believe that. This pop superstars

0:57

had quite the career and she's showing no

0:59

signs of slowing down either. With

1:01

the announcement of a new album this

1:04

spring and two more re-recording projects on

1:06

the Slade. It appears

1:08

Taylor is unstoppable. Not

1:10

only has her eras tour stimulated

1:12

local economies. Taylor herself

1:14

has boosted profits for the NFL as

1:17

her game day attendance brought in a

1:19

huge uptick of young women viewers here

1:22

to talk about all that and more as

1:24

pop culture YouTuber and self described Swiftie bestie

1:27

Lauren Lipman her reaction to Taylor

1:29

Swift's Look What You Made Me

1:31

Do music video went viral

1:33

with fans in 2017 and

1:36

she's been covering Taylor ever since. Laura

1:38

joins us today to share more on Taylor's

1:40

impact in music, business and even

1:43

the NFL. Later we'll be

1:45

joined by a Taylor Swift fan who's become

1:47

something of a household name within the community.

1:50

Autumn Kennedy is the creator behind

1:52

TS Tour Tips on social media,

1:54

which shares eras tour recaps and

1:56

know before you go information regarding

1:58

shows and venues. Autumn

2:01

began a version of the account in 2014 with about 20,000

2:03

followers. Today,

2:05

more than 400,000 people

2:08

turn to Autumn's page to find out what's

2:10

happening with their favorite artist. Autumn

2:13

is bringing us insights on the

2:15

Swifty community and how Taylor's unique,

2:17

authentic relationship with her fans has

2:19

contributed to her rising popularity.

2:22

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30 days. Lauren

4:01

Lipman, welcome to Business Wars. Hi,

4:03

thank you so much for having me. You

4:05

have a really interesting story about how

4:08

you started covering Taylor Swift because it's

4:10

not your average fan turned commentator sort

4:12

of thing. From what I understand, it

4:14

sounds like the fans found you first.

4:16

Tell us more about that. Yes,

4:19

that's exactly what happened, honestly. I

4:21

have a background as an on-camera

4:23

host and I wanted to make

4:25

pop culture content on YouTube, specifically

4:28

pop culture from a positive light.

4:31

My first videos were just regular

4:33

pop culture topics and then my

4:36

15th video was a

4:38

Taylor Swift music video reaction

4:41

to Look What You Made Me Do when she popped

4:43

out of the grave and we were all shook. The

4:46

old Taylor is dead. Oh

4:49

my god, that was amazing. After

4:52

that, that video went semi-viral and then I

4:54

was kind of looking through that music video

4:56

and I don't know, people on Twitter and

4:58

Tumblr, there was just so many different things

5:01

and Easter eggs that people were putting together

5:03

but I noticed that there was no one

5:05

place where all of the

5:07

Easter eggs with one music video lived. There

5:09

was no one really talking about specific things

5:11

that I saw when I decoded the Look

5:13

What You Made Me Do music video and

5:16

then that went viral. First scene, I

5:18

don't know if a lot of you caught this

5:20

but Zombie Taylor is wearing the same dress that

5:22

Taylor Swift was wearing in her Out of the

5:24

Woods music video. That was the last music video

5:26

of the 1989 era. The

5:28

Swifties descended upon my YouTube channel and

5:30

were like, Lauren, you have to make

5:32

more Taylor Swift content. I love hearing

5:35

you talk about your take on

5:37

everything and then that led

5:39

me to create a series on my

5:41

YouTube channel that I ran

5:43

for 88 weeks straight called Taylor

5:45

Swift Tuesday. Taylor Swift

5:47

Tuesday, yeah. I bet that was well

5:49

attended. I

5:52

understand that this video was, was it this

5:54

video that got shown on the Reputation Tour?

5:56

Is that right? Yes.

5:58

So that was, that's a very crazy story. story that still

6:00

doesn't really feel real to me to this day. My

6:03

reaction to Look What You Made Me

6:05

Do on YouTube, Taylor

6:08

Nation. David, are you familiar

6:10

with Taylor Nation? I have heard of

6:12

Taylor Nation, but fill in the

6:14

blanks for us. Because when I

6:16

think of Taylor Nation, I think basically of the

6:18

Swifties. It is Taylor Swift's

6:20

official fan interaction account.

6:22

It keeps the fans updated. It

6:24

gives merch updates, tour updates. It's

6:26

just basically everything. The official channel.

6:29

Yes, it's everything from Taylor Swift's team

6:31

that's not officially from Taylor's mouth. Okay.

6:34

So I got an email and I will never

6:37

forget. I was working at a nine to five

6:39

job and I looked down at my cell phone

6:41

and there was a little notification that said, from

6:43

Taylor Nation, confidential message. Hi,

6:45

Lauren. Taylor Swift's watched your channel

6:47

dot, dot, dot, were the notification

6:49

and I just, the

6:52

noise that left my mouth that

6:55

day at work. I was like, you know, in

6:57

a working setting where I couldn't really scream

6:59

about it at my regular day to day job

7:01

of like, does anyone have any idea of what's

7:04

happening right now? So

7:06

I met with Taylor Nation. They let me

7:08

know that Taylor Swift watched my channel, my

7:10

series, really, really liked it. And

7:13

at first it started off with they

7:15

wanted to gain the rights to my Look

7:17

What You Made Me Do reaction video to

7:19

show on screen on the

7:21

hundred and twelve foot screen on the Reputation

7:24

World Stadium tour. That is

7:26

crazy. Yeah. It was

7:28

so crazy. It's still one of my favorite memories that

7:30

then led Taylor Swift and Taylor Nation

7:33

to invite me to the tour. I

7:35

got to go backstage, meet her, sit

7:38

in club Olivia next to Rebel Wilson

7:40

and Bob Saget RIP. But it was

7:43

just, it was such an amazing moment

7:45

that it still doesn't really feel real

7:48

that that happened. That is

7:50

insane. What was, well, I gotta ask,

7:52

what was Taylor Swift like backstage? Honestly,

7:55

she was just exactly like how

7:57

everyone says that she was. I

8:00

feel like it's this weird moment looking

8:02

back on that time when I'm meeting

8:04

Taylor Swift. You go through all these things in

8:06

your head of, oh, I'm going to say this. I'm going to ask her

8:08

that. Nope. You kind

8:10

of black out. She is just so lovely

8:12

and so refreshingly normal

8:14

and human. The first thing we

8:17

started talking about was how my

8:19

nail polish color matched her dress.

8:22

And then she was like, oh, I love your nails.

8:24

My nails are trash. And then showed me her nails.

8:26

And I was like, I can't believe

8:28

I'm having this conversation about Taylor Swift's

8:30

chipped nail polish right now. And she

8:32

was just so lovely and sweet. And

8:36

yeah. I want to ask you

8:38

about Taylor News because she's had a lot

8:40

going on in February. I want to,

8:43

should we start with the Grammys? I mean,

8:45

she scooped up two awards, that record breaking

8:47

album of the year win. But

8:49

then on top of that, while accepting

8:51

the award for best pop vocal album

8:53

for Midnight's, she revealed that

8:56

she's got a new album, The Tortured

8:58

Poets Department. It'd be dropping in April.

9:00

That's pretty big stuff. What was your

9:02

reaction to that? Did you see it

9:04

coming? I

9:06

was hoping that she was going

9:08

to announce a different album that

9:10

evening in the Swiftie fandom among

9:12

the Swiftie lore. We are all

9:14

waiting for Taylor Swift's reputation,

9:17

Taylor's version. It is

9:19

her rerecorded album of

9:21

reputation. And we were all convinced she

9:23

was going to drop that album that

9:26

evening. That's what we were waiting for. And

9:29

I personally did not predict

9:31

that she was going to announce a brand

9:33

new album, The Tortured Poets Department. There

9:36

are a couple Swifties online. However,

9:38

I do have to say that did predict

9:41

this because Taylor Swift has

9:43

been in this cycle of dropping

9:45

two rerecordings and then a new album.

9:47

Three recordings and then a new album.

9:50

For some reason, I just didn't believe it that

9:52

she was like, when would she have found

9:54

the time she's been on tour? She's halfway

9:56

through the eras tour. And no, I was

9:59

not expecting that. Well, how where does

10:01

she find the time? I mean when she's doing all of

10:03

this does she the kind of person that writes while she's

10:05

on the tour bus or on the Jet or whatever? I

10:07

mean is that is that part of her part

10:10

of her thing? Yes, absolutely There

10:13

are Taylor Swift fan accounts that see

10:15

paparazzi pictures of her walking into the

10:17

studio in between tour stops Oh

10:19

loves to record at Electric

10:21

Lady Studios in New York City got

10:23

a house there and It's

10:26

just always wild to me how

10:28

much she can work all the

10:30

time. I've loved Hearing

10:32

interviews of her hers when she's like

10:35

when you get the songwriter gene Sometimes you'll be mid

10:37

conversation with someone and then I'll like look look to

10:39

the side my eyes will glaze over No, they're like

10:41

hold on. Sorry. I just came up with a melody.

10:44

I got to record it Hold on. I gotta I

10:46

gotta write down these lyrics that just came into my

10:48

head I mean, she's been

10:50

honing her craft for so long

10:52

She is such a professional at

10:55

putting feelings that are so

10:57

indescribable Into words and

10:59

into a catchy melody that it's just

11:01

I don't know where she finds the

11:03

time, but she does Now

11:06

right after Grammys not only was Taylor

11:08

kicking off her errors to her in

11:10

Japan But then she squeezed in a

11:13

quick trip to Las Vegas to watch

11:15

her boyfriend Travis Kelsey play his biggest

11:17

game of the season Yeah,

11:23

this gets gets to the whole NFL thing Did

11:25

you ever think Taylor Swift's name would be tied

11:27

to the Super Bowl for something that wasn't a

11:29

halftime show? Not in my

11:32

wildest dreams It's

11:37

been wild and so exciting and

11:40

as a long long time

11:42

fan of dealers I gotta say it's been

11:44

really fun to see that everyone else people

11:47

who weren't Swifties people who aren't even

11:49

big music fans Just kind of

11:51

like peek back the curtain and be like wait, this is kind of

11:53

fun I want to watch and see what's going on because it's it's

11:56

truly turned into this like pop

11:58

culture phenomenon like this moment.

12:00

How do you think she would

12:02

feel about this conversation that's been

12:04

going on in the background, certainly

12:07

among diehard football fans, complaining

12:10

about how frequently Taylor was shown on camera,

12:12

right? That sort of thing. I mean, at

12:14

the same time, I know that folks in

12:16

the back room at the NFL must be

12:18

thrilled by the fact that

12:21

they've got all these new eyeballs,

12:23

you know, young people, women who

12:25

are watching this, right? I

12:27

loved in her Time article, Person of the

12:29

Year, that she mentioned, you know, we're dating

12:31

and I just want to support him in

12:33

his time. Now that Taylor is a new

12:36

member of Chief's Kingdom, she just wants to

12:38

be there and show up for him on

12:40

the game days. To the people

12:43

that are upset that are showing her on

12:45

screen, did they not show Giselle Bunchen? Did

12:47

they not show any other celebrity that

12:49

is attending a game that day? I

12:52

just find that very hilarious.

12:55

Taylor's not the one choosing this. She's

12:57

just there to support. I guess from

12:59

the NFL perspective, I mean, you look

13:01

at the game viewership numbers for the

13:03

Super Bowl up 53% among teenage

13:06

girls, 24% among

13:08

the 18 to 24 demographic. They talk

13:10

about the Taylor Effect, the Swift

13:13

Bump. Oh yeah, this is the most

13:15

watched Super Bowl in history. Has it been

13:17

enough to convert you into a Chief's fan? Great

13:21

question. And my boyfriend would love

13:23

for me to say that, yes,

13:25

it's now made me understand and

13:28

enjoy football. I

13:30

don't know if I could say that fully, but I will say

13:32

it's been really nice seeing even

13:35

as someone who comments on Taylor Swift as

13:37

a pop culture YouTuber all the time, I'm

13:39

getting comments from older men in that are

13:41

just like, wow, I'm like, I didn't really

13:44

realize the impact. I just knew

13:46

her because my daughter liked her. But now

13:48

I'm going back. And I'm talking, I'm learning

13:50

all of these things. I got this very

13:53

funny YouTube comment of this, this older guy

13:55

saying, don't tell my football bros, but I

13:57

just subscribed to your channel. I'm

14:00

shocked at how much I like Taylor Swift.

14:02

I didn't think that I would and it's

14:04

been cool to see Even

14:06

during the Super Bowl. There was a commercial that

14:08

talked about How Taylor

14:10

Swift and Travis Kelsey dating this this

14:12

romcom that we're watching play out before

14:14

our eyes It's bringing like daughters and

14:17

dads together Yeah, you're getting excited about

14:19

watching football on Sundays with their dads

14:21

and I think that's really sweet I

14:23

think there's no negatives here You can't

14:25

you can't see this but i've got my

14:27

hand raised because that's exactly what happened And

14:30

our house in our household my daughter was watching

14:32

the entire game and it was a chance for

14:34

me to explain football to her Right,

14:36

but it was a wonderful, uh, you know

14:38

moment for us to share Now

14:41

the Chiefs have made something like 330 million

14:43

since Taylor started going to the games Is

14:46

this sustainable? Is this going to be the

14:48

kind of thing that's going to last beyond

14:51

these early weeks of this relationship? What do

14:53

you think? I will

14:55

say A

14:57

lot of my audience that follows me for Taylor

14:59

Swift i've got a very large Like

15:02

international fan base because Taylor Swift

15:04

is globally loved after the Super

15:06

Bowl. I got so many comments

15:08

being like I'm in

15:10

russia and I woke up early and had to

15:12

wait and watch the Super Bowl on some little

15:15

live stream Just because I wanted to see Taylor

15:17

Swift just to see her little clips of her

15:19

seconds of her throughout the game I

15:22

am also curious if it will withstand the hype,

15:24

but I do fully believe that wherever

15:27

Taylor Swift goes She has

15:29

this army behind her that's just interested

15:31

to know and what she is. So as long as

15:33

the nfl camera shows from the jumbo tron Pretty

15:36

sure she's going to be the biggest thing Hey,

15:38

let's take a short break. Our guest

15:40

is Lauren Lipman pop culture youtuber and

15:43

Taylor Swift pro more Taylor talk when

15:45

business wars return Thanks for watching! Cardinal

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welcome back to Business Wars or guess is

17:29

Lauren Lipman Pop Culture you tube or in

17:31

self described with the best d Keeping the

17:33

fans up to date on all the latest.

17:35

Taylor those you know, lots of people have

17:37

said that they started paying real intention to

17:40

Taylor Swift during the fight for her masters

17:42

against a producer Scooter Braun and Big Machine

17:44

Ceo of a Skype or shudder at what

17:46

wasn't like for you covering Taylor during that

17:48

time. Wow, that. Was an intense time

17:50

that was a crazy. Unprecedented.

17:55

Saying. that was going on in terms

17:57

of like music history this kind of things

17:59

up happened before. This happened with

18:01

Prince, this happened with Beatles. But

18:04

for Taylor Swift to so

18:07

publicly share and be open

18:09

with her fans about what was going on,

18:11

what she was dealing with, and for her

18:13

to literally do a public

18:15

plea to her Swifties, which she's

18:18

never done before. I don't know

18:20

if she'll ever do that again. But

18:22

she put out a plea to her fans

18:24

to let Big Machine and

18:26

Scott Borchetta and I believe Ithaca

18:28

Holdings let them know how you

18:30

feel about this. That Taylor wasn't

18:32

even offered the opportunity to buy

18:34

back her masters. It was

18:36

an intense time in the fandom. Did

18:39

you see any uptick in viewers to your

18:41

channel as this battle

18:43

became more mainstream? Absolutely.

18:46

This was when I was doing my

18:48

Taylor Swift Tuesday series. I did multiple

18:50

live streams the day that this was

18:52

announced. I did see a huge

18:55

uptick in viewership. I was making more

18:57

content on it because I was mad.

18:59

I was mad and I was

19:02

trying to get more insight. I

19:04

love interacting with my followers because then

19:06

they'd be like, hi, lawyer here. Here's

19:08

my perspective on what's going on. Here's

19:10

how contracts work in this sense.

19:13

It was just very interesting. As

19:16

a pop culture YouTuber, what was wild

19:18

for me during that time, I had

19:20

never had an issue making Taylor Swift

19:23

content online because the Taylor Swift versus

19:25

Scooter Braun issue was everywhere and everyone

19:27

had opinions. I actually lost

19:29

some brand deal sponsorships during

19:32

this time because they were like, hey, we

19:35

know you already did the work. We

19:37

know this, but we can't put our

19:40

ad in front of this content

19:43

right now. It's just too sensitive. PR

19:45

legal team doesn't want that. It

19:48

was wild. That is wild. Fast

19:50

forward to now. Everyone wants to be

19:52

tied to Taylor Swift. I mean, the

19:54

Aeros tour is breaking records. I think

19:56

it's the highest grossing concert tour of

19:58

all time. Just incredible. Now,

20:01

I have to ask, have you been more than once

20:03

perhaps? I absolutely have

20:05

been. I've been twice. I

20:07

went in Los Angeles night one and

20:09

night six, which was the night that

20:12

she announced It

20:14

was crazy. It was amazing. And

20:17

in terms of her breaking the record

20:19

for highest grossing tour of all time,

20:22

the record that she just previously broke was

20:24

a record that she set with the reputation of

20:26

the most dating tour. I love that

20:28

fact. Now, let me follow on to

20:30

that. Were you waiting on Ticketmaster, on

20:32

the Ticketmaster app, trying to get your

20:34

tickets? We're about to go into that

20:37

fiasco. Late 2022, we

20:39

talk about it in our series. Millions

20:41

of folks unable to purchase tickets. Did you

20:43

get caught up in that yourself? Oh

20:46

my God, I'm getting PTSD even

20:48

thinking about it. Yes,

20:51

that was awful. It was

20:53

so horrible. I made this whole

20:56

YouTube video that I started the video

20:58

being like, hi guys, this is going

21:00

to be such a great day. I'm going to get Taylor

21:02

Swift tickets today. Fast forward to

21:04

what actually happened. I'm actually happy that

21:06

I documented every step of the way

21:08

because that was just the

21:11

craziest thing that has ever

21:13

happened. Of course, the show was able to

21:15

go on with Taylor adding even more era's

21:17

tour dates to accommodate all that demand. What

21:20

do you know about the economic impact that

21:22

the tours had on local economies? I understand

21:24

she's been bringing in millions of dollars pretty

21:27

much wherever she goes. Yes, it's

21:29

been actually very magical to watch

21:31

her go from city to city.

21:33

I mean, it all started in

21:35

Glendale, Arizona. Then I think

21:37

each city just tried to top each other. One

21:40

of them made her the mayor for the day. One of

21:42

them renamed their

21:44

town to be Swiftyville. It's been very amazing

21:46

to watch all of that because one of

21:48

Taylor Swift's favorite thing that she loves to

21:50

do is on all of her tour

21:52

stops is she makes quiet food

21:54

bank donations. She makes donations

21:56

to Swifties in Need.

22:00

Swifties who've had hard times to her concert

22:02

if her team is able to track them

22:04

down in time. And it's

22:06

been very amazing to kind of watch this

22:08

happen. Well, for those who couldn't make it

22:11

in person to the heiress tour, of course,

22:13

there was this self-produced film version that was

22:15

released directly through AMC theaters. I

22:17

hear you were at the release party. Is

22:20

that right? I

22:22

was. Taylor Swift actually invited

22:24

me to the heiress tour

22:27

movie premiere at the Grove in

22:29

LA. She hand selected

22:31

a large group of

22:33

Swifties. In order to go, her

22:36

team had to vet you in order to go and

22:38

be there. It was amazing. It was

22:40

truly such an amazing experience. No

22:42

one else has ever shut down the

22:44

entire Grove before. For people that

22:46

don't know, the Grove is like this big

22:48

outdoor mall. It's very fancy. Huge

22:51

shopping area. And huge. And what was

22:53

so cool was you park your

22:55

car. And the Grove is full

22:57

of all these different stores and restaurants. Everything was

22:59

closed. You get out of

23:01

your car in the parking garage and they

23:03

were playing vault tracks of Taylor Swift in

23:05

the parking garage. Wow. They put

23:08

this red carpet over every single piece

23:10

of gravel. So the second that you

23:12

walked out of your car, you were like, oh, I'm

23:14

at a Taylor Swift premiere. She took

23:16

over the theater and she's going to be

23:18

here right now. It was an amazing

23:20

night. I got to

23:22

chat with Scott Swift and Andrea

23:24

Swift, her mom and dad and her

23:27

brother Austin. Wow. Watching the movie in

23:29

the movie theater with Scott and

23:31

Andrea Swift and also Flavor Flav. That's

23:34

amazing. I had

23:37

no idea. That's amazing.

23:39

So, you know, within 24 hours,

23:42

this movie breaks ticket sales records,

23:44

ultimately grossing something like more

23:46

than $260 million worldwide. I

23:50

think it was like the highest grossing documentary

23:52

and concert film in box office history. Why

23:54

do you think it was so successful? Oh

23:58

my God. I think in order

24:00

to answer that question, I have to go back

24:03

to what it felt like being at the

24:05

Aeris tour. There's a reason why people are

24:07

like following her like she's grateful

24:09

dead and attending multiple tour stops

24:11

because the feeling that

24:13

you get when you are in that

24:15

stadium, people of all

24:18

ages, men, women, fathers, mothers,

24:20

dancing, crying, singing their heart

24:22

out. And it felt like a

24:25

religious spiritual experience. And

24:27

so in terms of the success of the Aeris tour film,

24:29

I think we

24:31

just all wanted to go back to that moment. It's

24:35

incredible. But I think it's really

24:37

telling that 2023 was the year

24:39

of the Barbie movie, the Beyonce

24:42

Renaissance tour and the Taylor Swift

24:44

Aeris tour. It's becoming

24:46

very evident that girlhood is

24:49

a story that people want to hear about.

24:51

They want to celebrate it. They want to

24:53

spend money on it. And

24:55

I think it's now become this, I

24:58

keep saying cultural moment, but it's true.

25:00

People who couldn't attend the Aeris tour

25:02

were attending the movie theaters and they

25:05

were doing like circle dances

25:07

down in the movie theater. They were getting

25:09

up and dancing like they were at a

25:11

concert. And this is like a three hour

25:13

movie and people are still on their feet

25:15

the whole way through. It's

25:17

a phenomenon unlike anything I've ever seen,

25:20

heard about or experienced. So connect the

25:22

dots there if you can. I mean,

25:24

you've got Taylor Swift, the artist, and

25:26

you've got Taylor Swift, the business woman

25:29

and a certain moment that's happening in

25:31

the zeitgeist. What is

25:33

Taylor Swift's superpower here? Why

25:36

is this happening? I think after

25:38

everything Taylor Swift has been through, I

25:40

think her superpower is being

25:43

honest about wanting

25:45

to maintain control over

25:47

her music and that

25:50

it's okay to be strategic.

25:53

Her song, The Man, talks about, you know, if

25:55

I was the man, would, if I was a

25:57

man, would anyone be questioning any of my business?

26:00

No, would anyone be making fun of

26:02

me if I was a man button?

26:04

But there are making fun of me

26:06

for these exact same thing I think

26:09

she's just for superpower is being honest.

26:11

Up front and just fully. Knowing

26:14

and owning for power at this point she

26:16

is the biggest thing in the world. And

26:18

the fact that she was able to cut

26:21

out the middleman and just go straight to

26:23

the Amc movie theaters. no one else has

26:25

ever done that. Before. Only Killer

26:27

Swift could do that. but after and

26:29

way after in pop culture terms, you've

26:31

already climbed Mount Everest. To me, how

26:34

much bigger can I get? What we

26:36

what what's coming next I he did

26:38

the air is to are just hit

26:40

Disney Plus Huge deal We also here

26:42

she has another film project in the

26:45

works. perhaps what happens next. It's.

26:47

Such a good point! My friends and

26:49

I We were chatting with Andrea Swift's.

26:52

A sentence I never really thought I'd say

26:54

a him for his tour movie film and

26:56

he said to her you know like just

26:58

making conversation and he was like how does

27:00

it feels like be watching your. Daughter at

27:02

the peak of her career and Andrea look for

27:04

them and goes. Well. I hope it's at

27:06

the peak. And. Soon she was joking, but

27:08

it was just a funny moment when we're like, oh, Sorry.

27:12

In and it's it's. a very good

27:14

point. I honestly. I.

27:16

Think that. Hurt

27:19

her talents. And. The way

27:21

that see her brain works and

27:23

the be artists that lizard in

27:26

her. I think she's got a

27:28

couple more legs that she would

27:30

like to pursue her directorial debut.

27:33

Of all too well, the

27:35

ten minute film version is

27:37

stunning. It's amazing. Now she is

27:39

directing a feature film. As

27:41

you mentioned, and I personally.

27:44

I. Would love to see like a musical

27:46

by Taylor Swift. Andrew Lloyd Webber worked

27:48

with a song on Feel or Slept

27:50

For Cats. I would love to see

27:52

Taylor Swift write a book, right? A

27:54

fictional book because. Taylor. Swift is

27:56

just so. Masterful at

27:59

at. Writing songs at story,

28:01

telling us about characters and really

28:03

making us feel like were there.

28:06

So. I I personally feel like music

28:08

is just not. The only thing

28:10

that we're going to know her for in the next

28:12

thirty years. More Lipman is

28:15

a pop culture. You tube recovering all things

28:17

Taylor Swift and you can find her at

28:19

Lauren. Loved months across all channels Lauren It's

28:21

been a real delight to get to say

28:24

hello and talk about Taylor Swift with the

28:26

thank you so much for joining us on

28:28

business! Was. Thank you

28:30

so much for having me! This was

28:32

amazing conversation. When we come back

28:34

were taking an inside look at

28:36

Swifty Culture with digital creator and

28:39

Taylor Swift influencer Autumn Kennedy say

28:41

when is. This.

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of mind. Welcome

30:29

back to Business Force. Since the

30:31

very beginning of her career, Taylor Swift

30:33

has been a mastermind when it comes

30:36

to interacting with her fans. She was

30:38

replying back to MySpace comments when she

30:40

was just getting started. Then there were

30:42

the secret messages hidden in her lyric

30:44

books, music videos, and social media posts.

30:46

And she even made it a point

30:48

to invite the most enthusiastic fans backstage

30:50

at her concerts. Digital creator

30:52

Autumn Kennedy knows all about that

30:55

last one. She runs the social

30:57

media account, TS Tour Tips, where

31:00

she shares Taylor concert updates and hacks with

31:02

more than 400,000 followers. Autumn

31:05

has covered all things Taylor since 2014. And

31:08

during that time, she's seen a major shift in

31:10

what it means to be a Swifty. As

31:13

Autumn chronicles the ongoing eras tour, the

31:15

highest grossing tour of all time, we

31:18

might add. We're checking in

31:20

with her on the state of Taylor Nation and

31:22

the Taylor Swift superfans at the heart of it

31:24

all. Autumn Kennedy, welcome to

31:26

Business Wars. Thank you so much for having

31:29

me. I understand you've been

31:31

a lifelong Taylor Swift fan. Tell us about

31:33

when you first discovered her music and when

31:35

you first fell in love with her as

31:37

an artist. Taylor and I

31:39

have a long history. I first

31:42

became a fan of hers when I

31:44

was about seven years old. I

31:46

had heard our

31:48

song and I was immediately hooked.

31:52

So I'm pretty grateful that I was able

31:54

to discover her early on because I almost

31:56

feel like in a sense of gotten to

31:58

grow up with her. as she's kind

32:01

of gone further through her

32:03

career. You sound like you

32:05

have a personal relationship with her there, the

32:07

way you describe it. Yeah, I

32:09

don't know. I mean, I feel like people talk

32:12

all the time about like parasocial and I definitely

32:14

don't think it's like

32:16

that in a sense, but I

32:18

definitely feel with her more

32:21

so than other artists, there's a level

32:23

of connection and interaction that you don't

32:25

typically see. She'll go out

32:27

of her way to meet fans. She's never

32:29

ever charged for a meet and greet. She

32:31

just gets her team to pick out people

32:33

or she'll pick out people herself. So

32:36

I don't know. I just feel like

32:38

you don't really see that super often. Now,

32:40

Autumn, you've been connecting fans to Taylor Swift for

32:42

10 years now, starting during Taylor

32:44

Swift's 1989 era. But

32:47

what inspired you to start posting about her

32:49

on social media like this in the first

32:51

place? My old account, it

32:54

was kind of had a different focus

32:56

at the time. She has a pre-show

32:58

and an after-show meet and greet and

33:00

the after-show was always my focus. Essentially,

33:03

during the concert, her team

33:05

will pick out the most

33:07

enthusiastic fans and then they'll

33:09

ask if they want to meet

33:11

Taylor after the show, which I mean, I don't think

33:13

anyone has ever said no to that. But

33:16

my page was purely

33:18

focused on how I could

33:20

help people to increase their chances

33:22

of being picked for that and

33:24

then also seat upgrades, which they

33:27

were doing at the time. But

33:29

TS Tour Tips, I created about

33:31

a year ago and I

33:33

just really wanted to focus on just

33:35

being the ultimate resource for

33:37

everything tour-related, you know,

33:39

helping people to get tickets,

33:42

tour updates, song by

33:44

song updates at the show where people can

33:46

watch it, know before you go post. I

33:49

feel like every day I come up with

33:52

something new. I just want to make a

33:54

real concrete difference in people's tour experiences and

33:56

if they can't go, I just want to

33:58

help connect them with the tour. But

34:00

it's just it's grown so much faster

34:03

than I ever could have expected. I

34:06

think my last account the most it got to

34:08

was like 20,000 followers and now the tour is

34:13

not even done yet and I'm at 450,000. Like

34:16

where are all these people coming from?

34:20

How many era tour shows have you attended? I

34:22

mean, I guess it would probably feel like you've

34:24

gone to the mall after all that you've been

34:26

doing online. Yeah, I've pretty

34:28

much attended all of them virtually but in

34:31

terms of ones that I went to in

34:33

person, I went to Kansas City Night One

34:35

which was really special because

34:37

that was the day that Speak Now

34:40

Taylor's version came out. So it was

34:42

almost like a little album release party.

34:45

I do have tickets for

34:47

Toronto Night Six and then

34:49

Vancouver Night Three as well. I

34:52

have to ask, has Taylor

34:54

seen your gathered material? I

34:56

mean, does she know about

34:59

what you're doing online? I

35:01

don't know. I think she knew about

35:03

me beforehand because I had met her.

35:06

She had requested to meet me on her last

35:08

tour but it's been

35:11

so much time that I don't know if

35:13

she still remembers or if she knows what

35:15

I'm up to now but I

35:17

would be very happy if she did. I'm

35:20

sorry, she requested to meet you?

35:23

Say more. Yes. So

35:26

as for the Reputation Stadium tour,

35:28

I had made this outfit kind

35:31

of inspired by one she had

35:33

worn last tour. She had

35:35

this really cool body suit and I wanted

35:37

to do one that was kind of inspired

35:40

by Reputation. So it was all black and

35:42

it had all these like red

35:44

snakes wrapped around the body and

35:46

lots of like glitter and rhinestones.

35:49

I had posted about it on

35:52

Tumblr and kind of talked about

35:54

the show I was going to and also

35:56

just what I was doing online helping people to

35:58

get picked for the Rep Room. I

36:01

guess she might have seen it because I ended up getting

36:03

a DM from her

36:05

management company. It

36:07

was very surreal. I was not expecting

36:09

it. Well, spill the

36:12

beans. What was it like to actually

36:14

get to meet her? What did y'all talk about? It

36:17

was really interesting. I

36:20

didn't really process what was happening until I

36:22

was outside of the rep room and I

36:24

could hear her talking from

36:26

behind the curtain and I kind of had this like, this is

36:29

real moment.

36:31

But yeah, she was so nice. I

36:33

was telling her kind of about my story

36:35

a little bit and a

36:38

particular song of hers, which is

36:40

called State of Grace that had really resonated

36:42

with me and helped me through a lot

36:44

of things in my life. So I had

36:47

asked her if she could write

36:49

out my favorite lyric from that song so that

36:51

I could get it tattooed. She

36:53

did, so I did end up getting it tattooed,

36:55

which is really cool. And

36:58

then the next night when I had met her,

37:00

I had asked her if she could play a

37:02

song called Come Back, Be Here because

37:04

I really liked that song and it was

37:06

one that she had never performed live before.

37:08

And so when I went back the next

37:10

night, she played that as one

37:12

of the surprise songs. Oh my gosh.

37:15

So it kind of goes

37:17

back to what I was saying earlier. I

37:20

feel like there's a level of attentiveness and

37:22

consideration, all these different things

37:24

that she has done for me that she didn't have

37:27

to do, but she went out of her way to

37:29

do it because that's who she is as a person.

37:31

And that's kind of one of the

37:33

reasons why I admire her so much

37:35

because I know my story isn't a

37:37

unique one. She's helped so

37:40

many other fans in so many similar ways.

37:42

How do you think she does it? I mean, that

37:44

to me is a mystery when you're one

37:47

of the, if not the biggest star in

37:49

the world and you still manage to remember

37:51

that kind of detail. I mean, to even

37:53

have the mental space for that. That

37:56

to me is mind blowing.

38:00

Even she knew my name and everything

38:02

and I don't know

38:04

how she does it. I know that

38:06

she is really active online. She's

38:09

keeping track of people's profiles. She'll keep up

38:11

with them. She might screenshot it and send

38:13

it to her team. So

38:15

she's kind of like watching in the

38:17

background. I mean, it's clear that

38:19

Taylor Swift is paying attention to what her

38:21

fans are doing online. Could you say something

38:24

about like what that experience is like being

38:26

a fan and knowing that

38:29

this is part of what Taylor Swift

38:31

does? How authentic does it feel? I

38:35

don't know. It feels pretty authentic to

38:37

me. Even

38:39

during her speeches, she'll mention things that

38:41

I don't think would have been said

38:43

to her. She would have

38:45

had to have seen it online. She knows our

38:47

inside jokes. We used to have a big joke

38:50

for a long time that she hated her album

38:52

ever more because she just really never talked about

38:54

it. So I think one of the first sites

38:56

of the tour when she was in

38:59

that part of the set, she was like, I

39:01

don't hate this album despite what you guys say.

39:05

So she's very aware

39:07

of the community that

39:09

she's built. Yeah, for sure.

39:12

It sounds like she's actually doing this. How

39:14

does it make you feel though, knowing your

39:17

favorite artist might be seeing your content or

39:19

maybe invite you backstage one

39:21

day? I feel like most people have that hope.

39:24

She's very active online, so she'll

39:26

comment on people's TikToks. She'll like

39:28

people's posts. So

39:31

I think a lot of people have hopes for

39:33

things like that. But

39:35

it feels really special that despite how

39:37

big she is, she still has time

39:40

and there's still a chance that she

39:42

could come across what you're posting about.

39:45

So I don't know. It's exciting

39:47

in a way. It feels so scary. I'm like

39:49

over here, she had seen you. What

39:51

does she think? Yeah, sure. How

39:54

has Taylor fandom changed over the years? I mean, you've

39:56

been doing this for so long. What was the fan

39:58

landscape like around the time? I'm you Started

40:01

your Instagram a thought oh. More.

40:04

Tightly. Knit, which was interesting

40:06

because I started during the Nineteen

40:08

Eighty Nine era and to that

40:11

point that was like the peak

40:13

of Taylor's career. Like she was

40:15

more popular than she had ever

40:17

been. But I see late now

40:19

she's on so much larger of

40:21

a scale that it just makes

40:23

everything back then. Seem pretty

40:25

small. Cage. Even

40:27

just looking at her management

40:29

accounts. When. She had announced

40:32

read Taylor's version I think they

40:34

were I a million followers. And

40:37

now I mean, I'm less than three

40:39

years later. They're. At. Over.

40:41

Eight million as flick where's the

40:43

first these people coming from So

40:46

I know I as you legalize

40:48

people. Who. Are better. At

40:50

first I never really understood that because

40:52

I silicates. It's really good when someone

40:54

is able to share your passion for

40:57

something and as they are discovering her.

40:59

Henri. You know, rediscovering her after some

41:01

time. I think that's a really beautiful thing

41:04

and it's like, you know, the more the.

41:06

Merrier? Yeah yeah, what do you

41:08

think happened here to cause that

41:10

kind of growth of the fandom?

41:12

Yeah, I defy you think that a

41:14

huge part of it was the heiress were

41:17

it solves. Bomb. I feel

41:19

like that gained a lot of attention

41:21

and you know her songs were going

41:23

viral. Want to talk a lot of

41:25

people who are rediscovering her when she

41:28

was releasing her. Every recordings is

41:30

I. Soon as Canada's a combination

41:32

of a lot of things by definitely

41:34

see like it was the a sect

41:36

of the air as tour for sure

41:39

is, it was everywhere like when it

41:41

first started. you couldn't escape it, you

41:43

know, throwing. We're really focused on trying

41:45

to avoid spoilers the they're just seems

41:48

kind of. Impossible. Like.

41:50

You. Did he have to have to leave the

41:53

internet to not hear anything? Turns. out there

41:55

who are yeah i'm i'm curious

41:57

since you were talking about errors

42:00

after all, is there an era of

42:02

Taylor Swift that you look

42:04

fondly back on and kind of wish that things

42:07

were smaller, a little bit more innocent? How

42:09

do you feel about how

42:12

big Taylor Swift has become

42:14

now? I mean, in 2024? It's

42:18

kind of a mixed bag for me

42:20

because on the one hand, I'm really

42:22

proud of her and everything that she's

42:24

accomplished. I think it's really amazing that

42:26

she's getting the recognition like this. But

42:31

at the same time, I feel like since her

42:34

level of fame has increased, I feel like

42:37

there's a lack of

42:39

personal boundaries that I'm starting

42:41

to notice. People are tracking

42:43

her jets or they're taking

42:46

pictures of her without her consent

42:48

or people will be out

42:50

live streaming waiting for her to get

42:52

out the recording studio.

42:55

It seems a lot harder to

42:57

get things like getting tickets for

42:59

the era's tour is pretty near

43:01

impossible. Even getting merch now is

43:03

starting to get more difficult. Like

43:05

people try to pre-order her new

43:07

album, the tortured poets department, it'll

43:10

sell out a lot of scalpers who are

43:12

just buying up as much as they can

43:14

just so they can sell

43:16

it for exorbitant prices.

43:18

So I feel very

43:21

conflicted because part

43:23

of me just wonders how you're

43:25

so adjusted to this level of fame, but

43:27

how you adjust to it becoming even bigger

43:29

than you ever thought it would. What

43:32

motivates you to keep doing this work? I

43:34

love when she's on tour. It is

43:36

so much fun. I like keeping up

43:38

with it. A lot of people are

43:40

like, oh, don't you get bored

43:43

of watching the same show

43:45

over and over? And I don't because

43:47

I feel like it's just as exciting

43:49

every time that it happens, but everything

43:52

that I've done has always just come

43:54

from a place of wanting to help

43:56

people. And for me, that's enough reward

43:58

in itself. I'm not

44:01

obligated to do what I do,

44:03

but I like to because it

44:05

makes me happy and I know

44:07

that it makes other people happy.

44:09

Well, what about the future of TS Tour

44:12

tips? Would you ever consider turning this into

44:14

a full-time thing? If

44:16

I could, I definitely would. I've been

44:18

joking for a long time that Taylor

44:20

Nation should hire me because I feel

44:23

like I

44:27

could definitely bring something to the table in

44:29

that sense. But yeah, if I

44:31

can do this full-time, I would definitely be

44:34

super content with that. Who

44:37

knows? She may be listening. You know,

44:39

you just never know. That's the thing.

44:42

Hey, Taylor. You

44:44

call me? Autumn

44:47

Kennedy runs the social media account TS Tour

44:49

Tips for more than 440,000 followers so

44:54

far. You can find her

44:56

on Twitter and Instagram. Autumn, thanks so much

44:58

for joining us. Yeah, thank you

45:00

so much for having me. I had a lot of fun talking

45:02

to you. Coming up on

45:04

Business Wars, we dive deeper into

45:07

the big box store with a

45:09

big cult following. Costco goes under

45:11

the microscope with Business Insider reporter

45:13

Dominic Reuter and David and

45:15

Susan Schwartz, authors of The Joy of

45:17

Costco, a treasure hunt from A to

45:19

Z. You won't want to miss it. From

45:26

Wondery, this is episode five of Taylor

45:28

Swift versus the World for Business Wars.

45:31

I'm your host, David Brown. Kelly Kyle

45:33

produced this episode. Peter Arcuny is our

45:36

senior interview producer. Karen Lowe

45:38

is our senior producer and editor, edited

45:40

and produced by Emily Frost, sound designed

45:42

by Kyle Randall. Additional audio

45:44

assistance by Sergio Enriquez. Dave

45:47

Schilling is our senior producer. Our senior

45:49

managing producer is Ryan Lour. Matt

45:52

Gantt is our managing producer. Our

45:54

executive producers are Jenny Lour Beckman

45:56

and Marshall Louis for Wondery.

46:06

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our

46:08

podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts, I'm Alina

46:11

Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our

46:13

show is part true crime, part spooky,

46:15

and part comedy. The stories we cover

46:17

are well researched. He claimed and confessed

46:19

to officially killing up to 28 people.

46:23

With a touch of humor. I'd just like

46:25

to- Sure, go ahead and say that if

46:27

there's no band called Malevolent Deity. That

46:30

is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and

46:32

just garnished a bit with a little bit

46:34

of cursing. This motherfucker lied. Like

46:37

a liar. Like a liar. And if you're

46:39

a weirdo like us and love to cozy

46:41

up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

46:44

or you love to hop in the way

46:46

back machine and dissect the details of some

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of history's most notorious crime, you should tune

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in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on

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