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you get going. Hello
1:17
and welcome to Business Matters here on the
1:19
BBC World Service. I'm Rahul Tandon, plenty coming
1:21
up on the program. We
1:24
will ask in fact, is there or
1:26
should there be a global wealth tax,
1:28
particularly on billionaires? And we have
1:30
a fascinating interview with an economic advisor
1:32
to Donald Trump lifting the lid on
1:34
some of the economic plans that we
1:36
might see if Trump returns to the
1:39
American presidency. We're going to
1:41
see a massive increase in American energy output
1:43
under Trump. We're going to use our oil
1:45
or gas or coal or nuclear power. And
1:47
we think we can bring the
1:49
price of gasoline at the pump down to
1:52
less than $2 a gallon. Interesting
1:54
to hear from him ahead of the
1:56
first presidential debate, which of course takes
1:59
place this week. week and you dread
2:01
company team building days while we look
2:03
at an idea which uses the ever
2:05
popular genre of country music to
2:07
inspire staff, someone we never need to inspire.
2:10
To stay awake on this programme is
2:12
Rebecca Chung-Wilkins who's joining us from Hong
2:14
Kong. She is Bloomberg's senior
2:16
Asia correspondent and busy
2:19
as always. Rebecca, I was just before
2:21
the programme reading your piece on Gwan
2:23
Dong which many people will know about,
2:26
will know as the factory of the world and
2:29
it was a bit of a depressing read I want
2:31
to say. Yes,
2:34
really interesting. My colleagues and I
2:36
writing about Gwan Dong and
2:38
some of the problems that people are
2:40
feeling there, really sort of feeling the
2:43
brunt of the economic slowdown. Now Gwan
2:45
Dong has once called the world's factory,
2:47
experiencing all sorts of slowdowns, for example
2:49
in its tech sector in
2:51
the city of Shenzhen where so many
2:53
people, millions of young people have moved
2:55
to find jobs but now sort of
2:57
worried endlessly about job
3:00
cuts or job losses coming down the
3:02
line and really
3:05
sort of reconsidering what their
3:07
future looks like as we enter a
3:09
slower period of growth. We don't normally
3:11
tell people to move away from the BBC's excellent
3:13
website but if you do want to read something that
3:15
gives you a bit of an insight into what's happening
3:18
in China do go and
3:20
read Rebecca's piece. We also have Takara
3:22
Small, Toronto based technology
3:24
journalist but Takara, I was
3:26
reading these notes about you and
3:29
not only now a technology journalist but
3:31
also a farmer. Yes,
3:36
I've decided to broaden
3:38
my hobbies and start farming.
3:40
It's an interesting journey.
3:44
What are you farming? So
3:46
fruits and vegetables right now and then moving
3:49
on from there. I decided I cannot spend
3:51
my entire life in front of a laptop.
3:53
I need to do something else. We
3:56
will on this programme bring you now
3:58
regular updates on the farming. through here,
4:00
up to Cara's Mall, and we
4:02
are wondering whether to call it Toronto-based
4:04
farmer and technology, or the other way
4:06
around. We're going to try and work it out and
4:09
come to you, plenty to come from those two during the
4:11
start of the programme, but we, during
4:14
the course of the programme, but we're going to start
4:16
with the World Service has been talking a lot
4:18
about this story over the past 24 hours and
4:20
will continue to do so. Those are the events
4:22
in Kenya where there have been more protests against
4:25
the unpopular finance bill, which
4:28
includes several tax rises. It's
4:31
a country that is facing a huge
4:33
economic crisis. It's heavily in debt and
4:35
inflation has been high. That's led to
4:37
growing anger and thousands of
4:39
people took to the streets across the
4:41
country on Tuesday, including
4:43
in the capital, Nairobi. At
4:52
least five people are reported to have been
4:54
shot dead and many more injured in a
4:56
televised address to the nation. The Kenyan president,
4:59
Mr Ruto, said the demonstrations have
5:01
been hijacked by dangerous criminals. Today's
5:04
events mark a
5:06
critical turning point on how we
5:08
respond to grave threats to our
5:12
national security. I assure
5:14
the nation that the government
5:16
has mobilised all resources at
5:19
the nation's disposal to ensure
5:21
that a situation of this
5:23
nature will not remain
5:26
in the country again. The
5:29
army has been deployed now in
5:31
some parts of the country following that
5:33
speech by the president. Amongst
5:36
the protesters today in Nairobi was
5:38
the British Kenyan activist, Honor Obama.
5:40
She's the half sister of former
5:42
US President Barack Obama. The
5:44
young people say they still want to make
5:46
their voices heard. They're coming out to have
5:49
you listen to them. They're walking on foot
5:51
carrying our flag and
5:54
banners, paper, and we're
5:56
sending the army, we're sending the
5:58
police, and why is it so important to we're sending the
6:00
army because we sent the police, the police
6:03
threw tear gas at them, the police shot
6:05
at them and still they walked. And
6:08
still they walked. And now we're sending the
6:10
army. So now where we just got our
6:12
eyes burned and our chest congested, what is
6:14
going to happen to us if we walk
6:17
again? Are you going to gun
6:19
us down? Are you going to gun those children down?
6:22
And the problem is that
6:24
there are so many of them.
6:26
And at the moment I saw
6:28
posters that said we are no
6:30
longer afraid. We
6:33
are no longer afraid. And another
6:35
one said I have nothing to lose. We
6:39
wanted to hear from people within the business
6:41
community who have also been out on the
6:43
street. Wanchiyanu Mutai is the
6:46
global communications manager at Ashoka, a
6:48
social enterprise based in Nairobi. It
6:51
has gotten to a point where
6:53
everybody is feeling aggrieved. Now what
6:55
we are calling for is accountability
6:57
on the government's part. We need
6:59
all these corruption to stop. We
7:02
are really tired of the spending
7:04
problems that the government has. Like
7:06
recently the president has
7:08
been taking numerous trips abroad, but
7:10
the health services here are suffering.
7:13
Our teachers are calling for pay.
7:15
The schools are not funded, but
7:17
politicians have the money to fly
7:19
out, not just themselves, but also
7:21
their families. We have a problem. Also
7:24
out on the streets was Felix
7:27
Ochoaiga, the CEO of Hekope. An
7:29
angry nation, tired citizens, citizens
7:32
who are willing to risk it all to get
7:34
their country back. We actually don't have a
7:36
problem with paying taxes. What we are interested
7:38
in is that is this money
7:41
being used for the right reasons. But
7:43
what makes this worse is rampant taxes.
7:45
It says too much. Enough is enough.
7:49
Let's look at the wider economic
7:51
problems facing Kenya. Let's
7:53
start by asking how big is its debt?
7:55
That's a question I put to Professor John
7:57
Ambuku. Professor of Economics at Weber State University.
8:00
University in Utah and the United States is
8:02
an expert on the Kenyan economy. The
8:05
country has a very significant amount of
8:07
debt, depending on who you ask, about
8:09
$82 billion,
8:11
$45.5 billion of which is an
8:13
external debt. Out of that external
8:16
debt, about $4.4 billion
8:18
is with the IMF, and the IMF
8:20
is putting conditionalities on Kenya that are
8:23
making it very difficult for the government.
8:25
When you have that kind of debt
8:27
as a country, you have to face
8:29
debt service. You have to generate enough
8:32
revenues locally to be able to
8:34
service the debt and then
8:36
still perform as a government.
8:38
And for a developing country
8:40
like Kenya, where you face
8:42
a significant level of poverty,
8:44
you have to provide services
8:46
like education, food assistance
8:48
to the poor. Does the government
8:52
have any other option? Air under pressure
8:54
from global financial bodies like the International
8:56
Monetary Fund, who give them money to
8:59
keep going, but only if they do
9:01
certain things? The traditional solution for a
9:03
situation like this would be to improve
9:06
the functioning of the local economy
9:08
so that you can generate more
9:10
resources locally, especially with respect to
9:13
exports. And Kenya has been a
9:15
very good exporter. Can I ask
9:17
you about organizations like the International
9:19
Monetary Fund? Many of the protesters
9:21
are angry at organizations like that.
9:24
Are they part of the problem
9:26
in the conditions that they put on
9:29
economies like Kenya to
9:31
get money? It is not
9:33
appropriate for us to blame
9:35
the International Monetary Fund completely,
9:38
but we have to keep in
9:40
mind the government of Kenya also
9:43
has a part to play in what
9:45
is happening domestically.
9:47
The International Monetary Fund did
9:49
not force Kenya to accept
9:51
the terms of the border
9:54
week. And so the people at the
9:56
IMF do not have the power to
9:58
solve the problem. simply wipe out
10:00
the debt that Kenya owes to them.
10:03
If Kenya is willing to go back
10:05
to the International Monetary Fund and try
10:07
to renegotiate the terms of the debt,
10:10
they may be able to gain
10:13
some relief. Violence is not going to solve
10:15
the problem. It's only going to make things
10:17
worse. WESLEY THOMAS-JONES Rebecca, interesting to
10:19
hear from the professor there. And I think we
10:22
have to keep reminding people of
10:24
this point because a lot
10:26
of countries have debt. It's harder for
10:28
emerging economies. It's even harder at the
10:30
moment because we've seen over the last
10:32
couple of years those interest rates continuing
10:34
to rise. So servicing that debt is
10:36
becoming very expensive for them. WESLEY
10:39
THOMAS-JONES Yes, I think that is
10:41
absolutely key. And what is interesting
10:43
is that for the large part,
10:45
for the last 50 years, a
10:47
lot of the debt that the
10:49
IMF has lent out to developing,
10:51
so-called developing and low income nations,
10:53
has actually been under a system
10:55
of quite loose monetary conditions. And
10:57
so borrowing costs have tended to
10:59
be quite low. And as
11:02
those borrowing costs have come up, and
11:04
in order to take advantage of new
11:06
relationships, so China, for example, often here
11:09
is a popular lender as well,
11:12
countries have sought to diversify that
11:15
lending pool. But what that
11:17
has meant now is that as these
11:19
interest rates come up, and as countries
11:22
are dealing with quite complex socioeconomic conditions
11:24
on the ground, they're having to repay
11:26
these heavy debt burdens. It's also more
11:28
complicated to restructure them because to really
11:31
give these sort of restructurings and these
11:33
payment plans a fighting chance, you need
11:35
quite a comprehensive look that takes all
11:39
of the debt into account. So for
11:41
example, all these individual bilateral loans with
11:43
Chinese and other lenders, but as well
11:45
as sort of IMF loans, which, as
11:47
you mentioned, come with these very specific
11:49
conditions that need to be continued to
11:51
met. They're not just about sort of
11:53
servicing your interest on time. Yeah,
11:55
that is true. And that is why sometimes we see
11:57
the ends of subsidies then we saw that with fueling.
12:00
in Pakistan as they're making deals with
12:02
the IMF. When it comes to China,
12:05
are the conditions the same as
12:07
what countries would have to deal
12:09
with the IMF, or are they
12:11
slightly different? Well, there's
12:13
been a lot of research and concern about
12:15
this. The US and some other countries have
12:20
really criticized Chinese lending practices
12:23
saying they're opaque, saying that
12:25
they are perhaps sometimes unreasonably
12:27
high in their demands, and
12:29
also that the governance of
12:32
projects, for example, often based around
12:35
infrastructure projects, is quite low. But
12:37
actually, sort of Deborah Bauterman, among
12:39
other academics, have suggested that, you
12:42
know, that may be an exaggeration, and
12:44
that actually they do provide a pretty
12:46
crucial element of funding to countries that
12:49
otherwise would not actually be able to
12:51
access funding, to, for example, build
12:54
a dam or other forms of green
12:56
technologies, which, you know, in
12:58
the ideal scenario, are sustainable and
13:00
help a sustained economy for the
13:03
future. But it is a really
13:05
controversial topic still today. It
13:07
certainly is. There is a lot of debate about
13:09
it. And China clearly, one of the countries that
13:11
Kenya owns quite a lot of money to, the
13:14
moment interest rates are such an interesting issue,
13:17
aren't they, Takara? I remember on this program a few
13:19
weeks ago, talking about
13:21
interest rates coming down in Canada. That
13:23
looked like the end of inflation. Everything
13:25
looked rosy. Is that still the picture?
13:29
Unfortunately, it isn't. Interest
13:31
rates did come down very slightly. But then
13:34
we saw inflation come roaring back as well.
13:36
So, you know, I think the, you know,
13:38
years of very low inflation that we saw
13:41
in Canada, and to be honest, in the
13:43
US, may be a bygone area, at least
13:45
for the next decade or so.
13:47
And I want to add
13:49
that what was said before about in
13:51
Kenya being a very complex issue, as
13:54
a tech reporter, one of the interesting
13:56
things that I think a lot of
13:58
people fail to grasp is that music
24:00
crashing and something else. Listen, we're going
24:02
to be back with the news very,
24:04
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24:21
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24:23
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24:25
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24:27
who qualify. Take charge of your
24:29
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24:32
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24:34
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greenlight.com/ACAST. Welcome
25:17
back to Business Madness here
25:20
on the BBC World Service
25:22
Plenty to come up in
25:24
the second half of
25:27
the programme. We have Rebecca Chung-Wilkins
25:29
who is in Hong Kong, Bloomberg
25:31
Senior Asia correspondent, and Takara, a
25:33
small A Toronto based technology journalist,
25:35
and as we have learned today,
25:37
also a now, she is a
25:39
farmer as well. Now later this
25:41
week we'll have the first presidential debate in
25:44
the United States. President Biden
25:46
and former President Trump will outline their plans
25:48
to grow the world's largest economy. It's going
25:50
to be a key issue in
25:53
that election. We wanted to give
25:55
you a sense of what Donald
25:57
Trump's economic vision is. So, I've
25:59
been speaking to Stephen Moore. A
26:01
senior visiting fellow in economics at
26:03
the Heritage Foundation and an informal
26:05
advisor to Donald Trump. He's also
26:07
the author of Trumponomics inside America's
26:09
first plan to revive our economy.
26:12
What Donald Trump wants to do is
26:15
reignite the American economy in a way
26:17
that we haven't seen in the last
26:19
few years. Now, we've had very high
26:22
inflation. We've had very high
26:24
interest rates. We've had middle-income families
26:26
struggling. And so I think what
26:28
Trump wants to do more than
26:30
anything else is really lift the
26:33
boats of the people in the middle. They're the
26:35
people who have suffered the most under Biden's
26:37
policies. They're the ones who
26:39
have really gotten crushed under the inflation.
26:42
And so the first order of business
26:44
will be to try to
26:46
help middle-class Americans by bringing
26:49
down inflation, by reducing their
26:52
taxes, by providing
26:54
more high-paying jobs, and
26:57
bringing businesses back to the United States. Inflation
27:00
is coming down now, isn't it? The rate
27:02
of inflation is coming down. President
27:04
Biden had a series of factors to
27:07
deal with, which meant it wasn't just
27:09
the U.S., just about every major economy
27:11
suffered from inflation. True, but let's
27:13
be very clear about it. What caused the
27:15
massive inflation, I mean, there's no doubt in
27:17
my mind about this, I think most Americans
27:19
agree, is that Joe Biden came into the
27:22
office and spent $4 trillion
27:24
that we didn't have on a massive
27:26
spending spree that did great
27:29
damage to the American economy and
27:31
has done so much damage to
27:33
the nation's finances that it will
27:35
be decades and decades before we
27:37
can undo the damage that Biden
27:39
has done to our country's finances.
27:41
So the inflation didn't happen by
27:43
accident. It happened as a direct
27:45
result of the massive spending spree
27:47
that America couldn't afford. Well,
27:49
if you look at that spending
27:52
spree, many countries had to do
27:54
that because these were extraordinary circumstances,
27:56
Covid, people not going to work
27:58
for long periods of time. people took measures
28:00
that we haven't seen before. Donald Trump would
28:02
have had to do the same, wouldn't
28:04
he? Well, actually, the problem with that
28:07
narrative is that when Trump left office
28:09
a year into COVID, the
28:11
inflation rate was 1.5%. So
28:13
in 18 months, somehow Joe Biden took our
28:16
inflation rate from 1.5% to 9.1%, the highest
28:18
it had been in 30 years. We
28:23
want to restore fiscal integrity and
28:25
we want to restore a situation
28:28
where prices are stable. And
28:31
Donald Trump has a plan to do that. He
28:33
wants to do it through the supply side of
28:36
the economy, increase the production of
28:38
goods and services. One
28:40
really is easy area where
28:42
we can reduce prices that
28:44
I think will happen almost immediately is
28:46
we're going to see a massive increase
28:49
in American energy output under Trump. We're
28:51
gonna use our oil or gas or
28:53
coal or nuclear power. And we think
28:55
we can bring the price of
28:57
gasoline at the pump down to less than
28:59
$2 a gallon. Can
29:01
I ask you on those price increases?
29:04
China, the US buys so much
29:06
from China. Wouldn't it
29:08
be better for everybody if you didn't
29:10
have such high tariffs on Chinese products
29:13
coming in that would make a lot
29:15
of goods cheaper for Americans? Well, I
29:17
think you make a good point. Tariffs
29:19
are consumption taxes and this would make
29:21
prices higher on imported goods
29:23
from China, no question about it. On
29:25
the other hand, China is an
29:27
enemy and an adversary of the United States.
29:30
They are dangerous country. Can I just stop
29:32
you there? Is that how you see them
29:34
directly as an enemy? Are
29:36
you talking politically, economically? I
29:38
think both with respect to
29:40
economically, they don't play by the
29:43
rules. They are involved in predatory
29:45
trade practices. And even
29:47
more so, we regard them as a
29:49
great national security threat to the United
29:51
States and the world. And so I
29:54
think there's a special, look, I'm a free
29:56
trade person, but when it comes to China,
29:58
I think you've got a special case. there. And
30:00
by the way, the view that I'm
30:02
expressing is really the view of the
30:05
vast majority of Americans. There's one issue
30:07
in a very divided country, the United
30:09
States, that almost all Americans agree on,
30:11
and that is that China is a
30:13
big problem for the United States of
30:15
America and for the world. And so
30:17
I think in that regard, there's a
30:20
lot of support from both parties
30:22
for getting very tough on China with
30:24
terrorists. But let's be very specific on
30:26
China here, President Biden, and you're right,
30:29
President Biden has a similar strategy when
30:31
it comes to China. He recently put
30:33
tariffs on Chinese EVs.
30:35
If the Trump administration comes
30:37
back to power, what
30:39
level of tariffs will we see on Chinese
30:41
products? We've had these figures bandied around of
30:43
around an increase of 100% on
30:46
all Chinese products coming in. Is that the
30:48
conversation you're having at the moment? No,
30:50
I think that what Trump has been saying
30:52
is 50% or 60% terrorists. But
30:56
here's the thing about Trump. I want
30:58
to make sure your audience understands this. Trump
31:01
has used tariffs very
31:03
effectively in the four years that he
31:05
was president as a weapon, as a
31:07
weapon to get other countries to do
31:11
what is in America's interests. And we've seen that
31:13
many times. We've seen that with the Europeans and
31:15
getting them to pay their NATO dues and so
31:17
on. And so what Trump would say is,
31:19
I am going to use
31:21
tariffs as a means to force
31:23
other countries, specifically China in a
31:26
sense, to stop their predatory trade
31:28
practices, to play by the rules,
31:31
and to stop their aggressive military tactics.
31:33
Is there a danger under a Trump
31:35
administration that we move to a global
31:37
trade war? Because the level of tariffs
31:40
you're putting in place is higher than
31:42
what President Biden may put in place?
31:45
Is there a danger of that? Yes. But
31:47
I think what Trump would say, and
31:49
I agree with him on this, is
31:52
that if we can't trade with China,
31:55
we sneeze. If they can't trade with
31:57
us, they catch pneumonia. In other words,
31:59
the Chinese Chinese economy cannot prosper
32:01
without access to American markets. And
32:03
so they have much, much more
32:06
to lose than we do. And
32:08
that's exactly the leverage point that
32:10
Trump is making. Stephen
32:12
Moore then, after we did that interview, 16 Nobel
32:15
Prize winning economists wrote an open
32:17
letter warning that the second Trump
32:19
administration would reignite
32:21
inflation. Rebecca, we've
32:24
had some pretty strong comments
32:26
from the Chinese premier, have waves warned
32:28
of negative consequences for the world of
32:30
nations part ways economically. Do
32:32
you think the Chinese would be
32:35
even more worried with a Trump
32:37
administration than a Biden administration? Well,
32:40
we did have a recent report from
32:42
one of my colleagues saying that the
32:45
US intelligence point of view, views
32:48
that the Chinese are basically kind of
32:50
worried about both, neither are particularly good
32:52
options. I spoke to
32:54
one advisor to Beijing who said that,
32:56
yes, both of them aren't necessarily good
32:59
for China, but I think the element
33:01
with Biden is that he's somewhat more
33:03
predictable. And it's that
33:05
unpredictability for Trump that is a
33:07
bit of a concern. It
33:10
is worth saying that to
33:12
your interviewees point, actually, Trump
33:15
introduced a whole series of
33:17
tariffs and various curbs on
33:20
Chinese trade. And
33:22
in his administration, Biden has maintained all
33:24
of those and expanded the scope of
33:26
all of those. So in
33:28
some ways, it has been sort
33:31
of continuity with the previous administration
33:33
and building on it. Of
33:36
course, he has stopped far short of
33:38
what Trump is now potentially predicting, as you
33:40
mentioned, this sort of potential 60% tariff
33:44
on all US imports. But
33:46
as you say, to the broader plan,
33:49
we had that letter from those 16
33:51
Nobel prize winning economists saying
33:54
that various parts of the plan, so different elements that they've
33:56
focused on, should suggest that the US is not going to
33:59
be a good option. that they could also sort
34:01
of increase inflation too.
34:04
Yep, let us see what happens. The
34:07
whole EV thing is interesting, isn't
34:09
it, Takara? And the Canadian finance
34:11
minister, Christia Freeland, has now announced
34:13
the start of a 30-day public
34:16
consultation period, which could
34:18
lead to tariffs on Chinese EVs in
34:20
Canada. Yes, and I
34:22
mean, anyone who's been covering the story
34:24
in the US, this comes as no
34:26
shock. Canada has invested a
34:28
lot of money to set up factories,
34:31
to support EV electric vehicles
34:33
across the country with
34:36
rebates, et cetera. So the
34:39
tariffs is in no way a shock,
34:41
especially considering strong partnership with the US.
34:45
I do want to add, though, that it is so interesting,
34:47
because I was talking about the story on the radio this
34:49
morning. And one of the things that jumped out when we
34:51
talk about inflation, not just in the
34:53
US, it's around the world. So I
34:55
think this is a lot about the global
34:57
economy. But is that in the US, a
35:00
JP Morgan analyst called it a selective recession
35:02
we're going through right now because of cost-solving
35:04
and inflation, which means those who are lower
35:06
income are experiencing a very different economy than
35:09
those that are higher
35:11
income and have stock and have
35:13
the liquidity to withstand these
35:16
high prices. And I
35:18
say that because I feel like sometimes we talk
35:20
about inflation, it's just numbers. But for
35:22
many people, it can be the difference between
35:24
eating three meals a day
35:26
and maybe eating one. And a lot
35:28
of the time, when politicians talk about
35:30
inflation with numbers and forget that there
35:33
are very two different economies that play
35:35
in a country. Yeah, that is a big. It
35:38
is one of the big economic trends that we're seeing,
35:40
aren't we, across the world. Carol, your thoughts on this
35:42
one. Volkswagen investing $5 billion to form a joint venture
35:44
with the electric vehicle maker, Rivam, which
35:47
has really struggled that electric vehicle
35:49
maker. But I suppose VW does
35:51
get access to some of its tech. It
35:54
does. It gets access to that valuable
35:56
tech that they didn't have to necessarily
35:58
spend millions of dollars testing. staying,
36:00
going through a lot of the
36:02
rigorous assessments that in the US
36:05
and Canada, regulators require. I also
36:07
think they also see that it's
36:09
a sign that Canadian, not just
36:11
Canadian, federal governments around the world
36:13
are investing in electronic vehicles. That's
36:15
the future, especially with Trump, I
36:18
know he's supportive of drill, baby
36:20
drill, oil, gas, but
36:22
you're seeing more consumers
36:24
choose electronic vehicles. Yeah,
36:26
I want to ask Rebecca about
36:28
this story here because over the past few weeks
36:30
we've heard lots of news headlines like this. Tension
36:36
between China and the Philippines reaching a
36:38
boiling point in the disputed South China.
36:41
The front page of the Financial Times on
36:43
Wednesday has a story about rising tensions between
36:45
China and the Philippines as we heard there.
36:48
The Philippine ambassador to the United States has
36:50
warned of a region-wide conflict over the South
36:52
China reef dispute and this is a dispute
36:54
that is gathering pace, isn't it, Rebecca?
36:58
Yes, absolutely. We have seen more
37:00
of these types of confrontations, essentially,
37:03
Chinese preventing various supply
37:05
missions from the Philippines,
37:07
a part of the
37:11
area called the Sierra Madre. The
37:14
broader picture here, when we think about also
37:16
the why now, why is it now that
37:18
we are seeing this? It's
37:20
really because the Philippines has taken
37:22
a different tack. The Ferdinand Marcos
37:24
has taken a different tack to
37:26
his predecessor, Duterte, moving much closer
37:28
to the US and in some
37:31
ways put China on the back foot. In
37:33
some ways it was a surprise. Duterte had
37:35
grown very close to China. There was some
37:37
expectation that we might have seen a bit
37:39
of continuity with the next
37:42
regime and instead China
37:44
has had to adapt to a
37:46
much more assertive Philippines in the
37:48
South China seas and more broadly
37:51
from a foreign policy point of
37:53
view as well. China
37:55
in its turn has also the ante in its
37:57
turn. tactics
38:00
both on the waters there, but
38:02
also from a rhetorical point of
38:04
view. They said, for example, that
38:07
they have a secret recording of
38:09
an agreement that was decided between
38:11
a Philippines general and
38:13
the Chinese. So both sides
38:15
reaching to other parts of
38:17
their toolkit to have this
38:19
more confrontational relationship over
38:22
what could be another
38:24
flashpoint for Indo-Pacific
38:26
relations, because of course so many of
38:28
these countries are also allies to
38:31
the US. Yeah, a lot of countries
38:33
seeming to have to choose between the
38:35
two great powers of the world, China
38:37
and the US. Let us talk about
38:39
heat waves once again and India, because
38:42
the blistering heat there has affected the
38:44
livelihoods of India's informal workforce, who make
38:46
up a huge percentage of the country's
38:48
economy. Now an organization in India's western
38:51
state of Gujarat is offering women laborers
38:53
a heatwave insurance that pays for days
38:55
when temperatures hit higher thresholds. The BBC's
38:58
Auchana Shukla has this report. With
39:04
her bare hands, Hansa Nadia is
39:06
sifting through piles of trash strewn
39:09
along the roadside. Sweat
39:15
dripping down. It's sweltering
39:18
in Ahmedabad, but Hansa, a
39:20
waste picker, is out working. At
39:23
home, she empties her gun gun. Plastics,
39:26
paper, metal cans. That's
39:28
her collection after six hours run under
39:30
the blazing sun. Last
39:35
month, a heat stroke stole six days of
39:37
work, leaving her weak, she tells me. Her
39:39
monthly income halved to just
39:41
$30. But there's respite. Hansa
39:43
has an insurance for hot
39:45
days. I
39:50
got $14 as insurance money. It helped
39:52
me buy food for my family and
39:54
medicines for myself. I could
39:56
avoid working on days when it was too hot. In
40:00
the local market, roadside vendors are
40:02
hoping to make a sell. It's
40:07
heating 44 degrees Celsius on the scale.
40:10
Blistering heat is putting millions of poor
40:13
Indians at risk. Most
40:15
are part of the country's
40:17
unorganized workforce, doing ad-hoc jobs.
40:19
Their choice, work in unsafe
40:21
conditions or go hungry. Women
40:27
are among the worst affected, especially those on
40:29
meager incomes like 60 to 70 dollars
40:33
a month. And for them, this
40:35
heat insurance has actually come as a
40:37
breather. When
40:40
mercury breaches a threshold, in Ahmedabad it
40:42
is 44 degrees Celsius.
40:44
Those insured get an automatic payment of 4
40:47
dollars a day. The
40:51
payouts are small, but critical even for
40:53
those who work indoors. Sheets
40:56
Sabeera is pasting colourful papers to
40:58
meet kites. She's sweating
41:00
profusely, but cannot use the fan,
41:02
with loads of kite paper sheets
41:04
lying around. I
41:09
get 3 cents per kite, but because of the
41:12
heat I can't sit for long. Have
41:14
made just half the number of kites. The
41:16
insurance money has helped. Sabeera
41:20
continues work, attaching the string to
41:23
the kites. 46,000
41:26
women like her have got paid for the hot
41:28
days insurance. But with
41:30
heat waves becoming more frequent and
41:32
intense, meager payouts may not be
41:34
enough. Anisha
41:39
Muhammad Yunus works with the
41:41
Self-Employed Women's Association, the Ahmedabad
41:44
based trade union that runs
41:46
this novel heat insurance program.
41:49
She says to scale it up, a
41:51
policy push is needed. Can
41:55
heat wave insurance be included in
41:57
the Social Security Act? welfare
42:00
funds for construction workers and salt pan
42:02
workers be redirected to climate support, we
42:04
need to ask these questions and both
42:07
government and private sectors need to partner.
42:09
We could be the first country to
42:11
offer climate cover for informal workers. Outside
42:18
the metal fabrication shop, women are
42:20
beating aluminium sheets to shape them
42:22
into vessels. One
42:25
of them tells
42:27
him, heat or rain, they have to
42:29
work to buy food. For
42:33
these women and many others, it's a
42:35
matter of survival. As
42:37
extreme weather disrupts livelihoods, India's
42:39
informal workforce, crucial for India's
42:41
economy, needs a safety net
42:43
more than ever before. We
42:48
talked so much about the weather,
42:50
so let's get an update from
42:52
Rebecca and Takara and what
42:54
the weather heatwaves have been like in their
42:56
areas. Weather
43:00
has become more extreme here. We don't
43:02
have springs or autumns anymore. We have
43:04
these abrupt transitions into summer. We're about
43:06
30 degrees so far. Rain
43:09
has become less frequent but really heavy. Last
43:11
year we had quite
43:13
frightening floods where the water came up
43:16
about somewhere to my waist in certain
43:18
parts of the city. So quite a
43:20
lot of weariness around that too this
43:22
year. Takara? Yeah,
43:25
I mean it's the same in Canada. We're kind
43:27
of on the tail end of a heat wave
43:29
where we saw temperatures rise to 35, 40
43:32
with the humidity. It's been a
43:34
little bit unbearable to be honest and
43:36
very abrupt. I'll say though that has
43:38
reignited this debate in Canada about whether
43:40
air conditioning is a luxury or a
43:42
necessity because in Canada it's not required.
43:45
There are so many people, so many
43:47
non-profits who have stepped up to try
43:49
and help those that are homeless. Yeah,
43:51
that is a debate that we're seeing in some parts of
43:53
the world, isn't it? Now, as employees, we all love those
43:55
days, don't we, when the bosses take us away and we
43:58
do a bit of a team. building
44:00
exercise, do we really? We call them
44:02
away days here in the UK, two
44:04
words often filled with dread for those
44:06
on the receiving end. But a boss
44:08
in Oregon in the United States was
44:10
determined to break the mold. An avid
44:12
fan of country music, Kyle Morris organised
44:14
an away day in Nashville for the
44:16
18 employees working at his business system
44:18
company, Kick Show. What did he do?
44:20
Well, Kyle's been telling us and also
44:22
telling us that he was worried beforehand
44:24
that people might not like the idea
44:26
that he describes. I would call
44:28
those mandatory fun, right? Mandatory fun is never
44:30
really very fun. But, you know, knowing
44:33
that we're getting our team together, it's an opportunity. That's
44:35
the way I think of it. It's an opportunity. How
44:37
do we make the most of it? Well, we're in
44:39
Nashville, the country music epicenter.
44:41
So let's lean into music a little bit.
44:43
And I've had recommendations to this company, Kid
44:46
Billy, who helped facilitate the process for us
44:48
and heard only great things. They're
44:50
professional songwriters who help famous musicians make songs. They
44:52
can't be bad at it. And so it
44:55
was kind of a no brainer. Many of our employees had
44:57
lots of reservations, but I was really pleasantly surprised at the
44:59
end of it. Dozens of them
45:01
came up to me and said that it exceeded their
45:04
expectations. So I was really looking for something unique, something
45:06
that they would never do normally and get
45:08
them out of their comfort zone a bit. Okay, so let's
45:11
take a little step back and, and
45:13
explain to people what actually happened here. So you
45:15
had some songwriters, you had country music, I suppose
45:17
you don't need to put two and two together.
45:20
Did you get people to try and write
45:22
a song? Because that sounds to me like
45:24
a pretty scary experience. It can be scary.
45:26
Absolutely. And so we at our company, we
45:28
have four core values. And we
45:31
broke into four separate groups, we mixed people
45:33
up. And we had them with the facilitation
45:35
of the songwriter, write a song about each
45:37
of our core values. So one core values,
45:39
own it, one is work together, one is
45:41
keep it simple, one is BU. And so
45:43
our teams each wrote a song about one of
45:45
those core values. And because our
45:47
team has really adopted those core values and lives by
45:49
them every day, it was very natural
45:51
for them to really share words that would turn
45:54
into verses and chords and lyrics that would make
45:56
a song. So it first is a little awkward.
45:58
You got to get people to kind of open
46:00
up a bit, but once it got going, those
46:03
facilitators were actually very fantastic at this. They're professionals
46:05
and they help pull it out of us. They
46:07
don't write the songs for us, they helped us
46:09
write the songs for ourselves. Let's
46:11
hear one of the songs. Let's hear this one
46:14
in which is called Own It. I
46:16
was feeling kind of awkward, cause I thought
46:18
I wanted it. But I took it to
46:20
the sandbox, wrote a license with it. So
46:23
I bought it. Now everyone in my heart likes to
46:25
drive it like they stole it. But it ain't really
46:27
cheap. It didn't sound too bad
46:30
to me in that particular one. Can
46:32
I ask you, you know, when I imagine,
46:35
and I'm just taking my office as an
46:37
example here, if our boss asked us to
46:39
write a song about our office,
46:41
some of it could be quite positive,
46:43
but some of it could be quite
46:45
negative stuff in some of the songs.
46:48
I imagine, I'm not saying we've done it as
46:50
yet. Did that happen with you? Well,
46:53
you know, an open-ended song prompt could be pretty
46:55
tricky. You could end up with some songs that
46:57
you may not like. Our core values
46:59
are very important to our business. And for many businesses,
47:02
core values are just the thing they throw up on
47:04
the wall and no one even cares about it. They
47:06
don't think about it. They don't act like it. For
47:08
us, core values are everything. We
47:10
reference them all the time. Our team uses them
47:12
to help make decisions. You know, how can
47:14
I own this decision? How can I be
47:16
myself? You know, we use them constantly. So
47:18
when we create that framework of your core
47:20
value is keep it simple, write a song
47:22
about it. One of the
47:24
things that keep it simple means to you is different
47:26
than another employee and together those things mesh. And
47:29
it works out. It is a little scary. I was
47:31
on the keep it simple group, but I just knew
47:33
that I trusted in the team and the team trusts
47:36
in each other. And I think a lot of it
47:38
comes down to you have to have that fundamental trust
47:40
for to have success in this. Otherwise, it's
47:42
going to fall flat. You know, for me, part
47:44
of the inspiration for this was I started playing
47:46
music for the first time five years ago. I
47:48
never picked up an instrument. I
47:51
play guitar, I play some piano, I sing and
47:53
I wanted to kind of expose some folks at
47:55
the company to how fun it can be to
47:57
create music. And I've never really written any songs
47:59
myself. So it was fun for me to see
48:01
professionals helping us do this. I learned a
48:04
ton. And so I think it's something
48:06
we're going to be able to lean on in the
48:08
future. You know, every company retreat, we're going to play
48:10
these songs. It's going to be something that we rally
48:12
around. And so hopefully it gives people, you know, the
48:14
itch to dig into music some more. You sort of
48:17
made a company anthem, haven't you? Absolutely. Have you seen
48:19
an improvement? I know it's early, it's only a few
48:21
weeks ago, but do you think it has made a
48:24
difference? The thing that made the biggest difference
48:26
is getting people together, working on something. You
48:28
know, a song was the byproduct, the thing
48:31
that you have kind of forever, but it
48:33
was the experience people have. Does this, does
48:35
this have an help an employee who's great
48:37
stick around for another month or year or
48:39
decade? Like that's the hope is that we're
48:42
building cohesion among our team so that as
48:44
leaders and executives, we can step back and
48:46
let people operate without managers and leaders up
48:48
in their business all the time. It just
48:50
creates cohesion that wouldn't happen naturally. Oregon
49:00
based Kirk Sore. Takara,
49:02
mandatory fun always when you appear
49:04
here on Business Manager. If you enjoy
49:07
it or not. Team
49:09
building. I mean, if you've been to any team
49:11
building experiences that have stuck into your mind as
49:13
thinking this is a dreadful idea. I'm not saying
49:15
that that one is actually sending out to work.
49:19
Nothing as fun as songwriting, maybe
49:22
a stale donut in the break
49:24
room and a pep talk. Nothing
49:26
as extravagant as that. Rebecca.
49:31
I feel somewhat blessed to have escaped a lot of this,
49:33
but Hong Kong is a big
49:35
corporate town, as you imagine, and
49:37
things like karaoke and escape room
49:39
are actually pretty popular with sort
49:41
of corporates here. Do you think
49:43
they work, Rebecca? Do you think it
49:46
does work or just forcing people to
49:48
go off together when
49:50
sometimes it isn't possible to
49:52
build a team because some people just don't
49:54
get on? I
49:56
think part of it is the industry that you're in and I
49:58
sort of suspect that if you're in. something like
50:00
finance where it's relatively competitive and you
50:03
go into an environment where you're doing
50:05
something relatively competitive that actually people do
50:07
get pretty into it. I
50:09
think the other part about Hong Kong
50:11
though is sort of team building, here's
50:14
also about hosting cultures. So a lot
50:16
of it is less about these sort
50:18
of mandatory fund sessions and activities per
50:20
se, but more about socialization, really sort
50:22
of eating and drinking together. And that
50:24
becomes a really key way that people
50:27
sort of build those relationships and
50:29
strengthen those connections outside the office. Takara,
50:32
I've just been thinking now with your
50:34
second career as a farmer, could
50:36
you do some team building by getting people
50:38
to help you on the farm doing something
50:40
or the other bit of digging, getting teams
50:42
up there? I think it could be another
50:45
business idea for you. I think
50:47
you've just created a new business idea for me.
50:49
I don't need to farm for food. I can
50:51
create this as a team building exercise and reap
50:53
the veggie fruit rewards. Are you
50:55
heading to the farm after this program now? Will
50:57
you be up there? Oh,
50:59
tomorrow I will be. Bright and early. How
51:02
early? Oh, we have to be
51:04
there by 5am. I do want
51:06
to emphasize, I'm still a tech journalist through
51:08
and through because we're thinking, how is this
51:10
girl doing? I'm still doing it. This is
51:12
a side hustle that I don't know why
51:14
I'm doing for fun. No space for farms
51:16
in Hong Kong, Rebecca, I presume. But 5 o'clock, start
51:18
for you for a bit of agriculture,
51:20
could you see happening? Never
51:24
on a weekday, possibly on a
51:26
Sunday, if I ever absorb Takara's
51:29
enthusiasm. I'm zest for early mornings,
51:31
maybe. Always brilliant on business matters.
51:33
Rebecca is maybe not going to be so great
51:35
on Takara's farm. That is it for this edition.
51:37
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And the best part about Quince? They
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exclusively partner with factories committed to safe,
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with Quince. Go to quince.com/upgrade for
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What do you do with your old tech? Throw
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it in the trash? Drop it in the junk drawer?
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Why not turn it into cash? With
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an offer in as little as two minutes. Ship
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your cash within five days. So
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next time you need to upgrade your
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tech or clean out those drawers, make
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some money with Trade-In from backmarket.com. And
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while you're there, save up to 70%
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versus new on your next verified refurbished
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device.
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