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June's Journey. Download the

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Android. Made

1:20

by an anonymous host, Case File

1:23

delves deep into the crimes, investigations,

1:25

and trials of solved and cult

1:27

cases from around the world. With

1:30

more than 250 episodes, the

1:33

podcast has covered infamous unsolved

1:35

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1:37

cases that deserve more attention.

1:40

Discover why everyone from Rolling Stone to

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1:47

you get your podcasts. I'm

1:52

Kate Winkler-Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent

1:55

the last 25 years writing

1:57

about true crime. cold-case

2:00

investigator who's worked some of America's

2:02

most complicated cases and solved them.

2:04

Each week I present Paul with

2:07

one of history's most compelling true

2:09

crimes. And I weigh in using

2:11

modern forensic techniques to bring new

2:13

insights to old mysteries. Together

2:16

using our individual expertise we're

2:18

examining historical true crime cases

2:20

through a 21st century

2:22

lens. Some are solved and some are

2:25

cold. Berry cold. This

2:27

is Buried Bones. Hey

2:38

Paul. Hey Kate, how are you?

2:52

I'm doing well except for this damn story.

2:54

I mean, I know that we do

2:56

true crime stories. We talk about them every week,

2:59

but this is a hard one.

3:01

A lot of dead women. Brutal.

3:03

Brutal brutal. The servant girl

3:06

annihilator story. I've been thinking about

3:08

it all week. I don't know about you. Well,

3:10

I've been thinking about it, you know, but this

3:12

is my world. You know, welcome to my world.

3:14

It's a dark world, Paul. Yes, it

3:17

can be. Well, let's recap for those

3:19

of you who have forgotten over the

3:21

past week. We have now four

3:23

murders in Austin, Texas in the late

3:25

1800s starting in December

3:28

of 1884. A black

3:31

cook named Molly Smith was

3:33

sexually assaulted it looks like and murdered

3:35

with an axe and stabbed with a

3:37

sharp object. We have Eliza Shelley about

3:39

five months after that, who was a

3:42

black cook in her 30s. She

3:45

was struck with an axe stabbed with a

3:47

sharp object, which I think they're now going

3:49

to determine is going to be something like

3:51

an ice pick. Then Irene

3:54

Cross just a few weeks later, who

3:56

was a black domestic worker attacked with

3:58

a knife, then married. Mary Ramey,

4:00

the 11-year-old girl who

4:02

was the daughter of a black cook who was

4:05

knocked over the head and then Mary Ramey was

4:07

taken out and just brutalized and

4:09

stabbed through the ear with a sharp

4:11

object. So that's where we are.

4:14

Four dead, one young girl, three

4:16

women who are dead, and then

4:18

a mother who is grieving and

4:20

recovering very slowly. And

4:22

a black community in Austin, Texas that

4:25

is shook to a point where they

4:27

are all trying to kind of protect

4:29

each other and sleep in areas

4:31

where they feel a little bit safer than

4:34

in their tiny little cabins at the back

4:36

of the property of the people who have

4:38

employed them. Yeah, you know, and I think

4:40

I just want to point out that, you know, we're talking

4:42

the mid-1880s. Mm-hmm. The

4:45

idea of the serial predator being

4:47

a new phenomena, it's not.

4:49

It's been going on forever. Yep. They

4:52

called them multiple murderers back then. And

4:54

Edward Rulof, you know, who was the subject of

4:56

a book and my first season of Tenfold More

4:59

Wicked, I remember somebody in the media

5:01

telling me that they were going to print Serial Killer,

5:03

and I said, no, he was a multiple murderer. That's

5:05

what they called them back then. But

5:08

it was still disbelief. But it was clear, even to

5:10

the police in 1884, 1885, that these were all committed

5:12

by the same

5:16

person. So the last one where

5:18

we left off was Mary Ramey,

5:20

which was August 30th of 1885. A

5:24

month or so goes by. Now

5:27

we're September 28th, 1885, and

5:30

now we're back to a man

5:32

being present, a boyfriend. They

5:35

are near the University of Texas on Guadalupe

5:37

Street. It is a woman named

5:39

Gracie Vance and her boyfriend,

5:42

who is a man named Orange Washington,

5:44

and they are asleep in

5:46

the back cabin of a

5:48

property owned by Gracie's boss, who was

5:50

the publisher of the Texas court reporter

5:53

legal newspaper at the time. Gracie and

5:55

Orange were not alone. They were in bed

5:57

and they had two people sleeping on the

5:59

floor. floor. This were

6:01

two women named Lucinda Boddy and

6:03

Patsy Gibson. They were also domestic

6:05

workers but for a different family.

6:08

So Lucinda and Patsy were staying with

6:10

the couple because they were terrified. So

6:13

they were grouping up to try to

6:15

protect one another. So

6:17

the boss, William Dunham, says

6:20

he heard odd noises through

6:22

the night which

6:24

he thought were orange

6:26

assaulting his girlfriend Gracie.

6:29

The boss said it sounded like

6:31

Gracie was being either whipped or

6:34

slapped and the boss,

6:36

William, says this happened between the

6:38

two of them between Gracie and

6:41

Orange so he didn't do anything.

6:43

But he heard noises of violence

6:46

around one in the morning, yet again middle of

6:48

the night. The boss, William,

6:50

hears somebody scream it's a woman. He

6:52

finally gets up, he gets a gun,

6:54

he rushes outside, and he saw one

6:57

of the overnight guests, one of the

6:59

women, Lucinda, struggling with a

7:01

man in the yard. She

7:04

was bleeding from the head,

7:06

she appeared confused, she screams

7:08

Mr. Dunham were all dead.

7:10

The attacker got away because

7:13

William could not get a shot off and

7:16

the attacker left behind a horse

7:18

which was hitched to a nearby

7:21

tree. Inside the cabin

7:23

the other guest, Patsy, was lying

7:25

on her side. She was barely

7:27

alive, she was bleeding from a

7:29

severe head wound. The

7:31

boyfriend, Orange, was dead. He

7:34

was lying face down on the floor

7:36

in the space between

7:38

his bed and an open window.

7:40

His head had been nearly sliced

7:43

in half with an axe which

7:45

was found in the bedroom also left behind.

7:48

Lucinda and Patsy had been beaten

7:50

with what they think was the

7:52

back blunt part of the axe.

7:55

Gracie is dead too. She had

7:57

been dragged yards

8:00

from her cabin over a

8:02

four-foot tall fence into

8:05

a horse pasture. She had

8:07

been sexually assaulted and investigators

8:09

say he had violently beaten

8:11

her with a brick until

8:14

her head was described as jelly.

8:17

Completely unrecognizable at this point. So

8:20

this is awful. Everybody's been

8:22

attacked in this cabin. Yeah,

8:24

you know, to me it's obvious the offender went in

8:26

and you have the four adults that

8:28

are asleep and

8:31

in quick succession incapacitates or attempts

8:33

to incapacitate three of them. Now

8:35

you don't indicate that there's any

8:38

signs of a struggle between Orange

8:40

and this offender. So I'm assuming

8:43

Orange being the male is the first

8:45

one that is likely struck with the

8:47

axe, dispatched right away,

8:50

and then Lucinda and Patsy

8:52

are then also struck right

8:54

away. Gracie is the

8:56

chosen one. Whether or

8:58

not he's evaluating on scene

9:01

who his intended victim is going to

9:03

be that he sexually assaults or

9:06

he knew going into this location

9:09

who he wanted to have as a

9:11

victim. Right now we don't know but

9:13

he goes in and dispatches

9:16

the three adults that

9:18

he has no intention of having any

9:21

further interactions with and

9:23

then removes Gracie because she is the

9:25

chosen one. And just so you

9:27

know she's 20 years old, Gracie. And

9:29

Orange is 25. I know

9:32

we talk about old man strength but this is

9:34

a young man so I think

9:36

you're right. There's a point that he's

9:38

found face down in between the bed

9:41

and an open window. I'm not sure

9:43

the claim is that the man entered

9:45

through the window but the window would

9:48

have been open probably because you know

9:50

it's September 30th and it's really hot

9:52

still in Austin. In

9:54

all likelihood, Orange may never

9:57

have even been aware of what happened.

10:00

He's asleep. He's hit

10:02

in the head with the axe. Whether or

10:04

not he even had any type of mobility

10:06

after that assault, who knows? It's

10:08

possible Orange is just on the bed, hit on

10:10

the head. Offender

10:12

dispatches Lucinda and Patsy

10:14

and then drags Gracie out. Maybe

10:17

Orange gets up, stumbles, and collapses,

10:19

or the offender pulls Orange off the bed,

10:21

hits him in the head because now you

10:24

have a solid surface of the floor versus

10:26

the cushioning of

10:28

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10:30

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bones. Now

12:02

talk to me about the distance that

12:04

Gracie's body was discovered, dragged about 75

12:06

yards from

12:08

her cabin over a four-foot tall

12:10

fence and into an adjoining horse

12:13

pasture. Is that a long way? I mean,

12:15

he's really trying to get out of the

12:17

scene. Yeah, no, he

12:19

most certainly is trying to

12:21

put distance from the cabin

12:23

and where he can spend

12:26

time with Gracie. And

12:28

again, is this because he's not

12:30

sure that the three adults that

12:32

he has struck are truly incapacitated?

12:35

Is he aware of, let's say, the

12:37

owners of the property and that they

12:40

may be able to hear something if

12:42

he's spending time with Gracie and he

12:44

needs to get further distance away from

12:46

the property? Who

12:48

knows? But it's significant. I

12:51

don't know how big Gracie is.

12:53

Now, when they say the term

12:55

dragged, oftentimes, victims will

12:57

be forced to walk. So

13:00

that's where it's like, well, is he

13:03

truly dragging Gracie and carrying her up

13:05

over this four-foot fence? Or is he

13:07

forcing her at knife point or something

13:09

else to get to this other location?

13:12

If he is dragging and then taking her

13:15

up over the fence, this tells me he's

13:17

likely a very robust male. He's

13:19

got some strength. He's got some

13:21

stamina in order to move this

13:23

adult woman that distance and up

13:25

over an obstacle. Now let me

13:27

ask you about the timeline. So William

13:30

Dunham, the boss, comes out because

13:32

he hears Lucinda screaming. She

13:34

is struggling with a strange man

13:36

in the yard. She's

13:38

bleeding from the head and she appears

13:40

confused. And this is when she says,

13:43

Mr. Dunham, we are all dead. Now,

13:45

Patsy's barely alive. She survives. Lucinda survives.

13:48

Orange is dead. And you've got

13:50

Gracie who's dead in the field. Isn't

13:53

this, for this to be the way

13:55

Lucinda's describing it, doesn't it mean that

13:57

he has to hurt these people in

13:59

my opinion? Mobilize them grab Gracie

14:02

sexually assault her and kill her in

14:04

the field and go back for Lucinda

14:06

in order for him to then get

14:08

away because he can't be chased away

14:10

by this man with a gun and

14:12

then Return and grab Gracie then doesn't

14:14

Gracie have to go first and then

14:16

he comes back No,

14:19

I think the the logical sequence is

14:21

as he goes in while these four

14:23

are asleep. He dispatches

14:25

the three adults Separates

14:28

Gracie and then on

14:30

his way back and and there's

14:32

there's the unknown here It's

14:35

possible that he's he's heading back to

14:37

where his horse is hitched in order

14:39

to escape Okay And maybe Lucinda has

14:41

come to and is now come out

14:43

and is face to face with him

14:46

and that's when the owner comes out and

14:48

sees them struggling or I

14:50

mean the other the other possibility which I

14:52

think is less likely as he goes back

14:54

into the cabin and is now trying to

14:57

pull Lucinda, you know to worry

14:59

he has Gracie and she's putting up a struggle.

15:01

I Think the first scenario

15:04

is more likely as he's he is now

15:06

trying to escape and Lucinda just happened to

15:08

stumble out there and comes Face to face

15:10

with them and that's when

15:12

the owner comes out and witnesses that interaction

15:15

Now what sounds like happened is that you

15:17

know? He is using the

15:19

sharp end of the axe on some people

15:21

and Disabling other people with the

15:23

blunt end of the axe the

15:26

fact that he hasn't done some of the

15:28

other Horrible things like the kind of impaling

15:30

thing with what they might be as it

15:32

say as an iron rod Does

15:34

that mean he doesn't have time is that

15:37

what's happening or this just seems like a

15:39

blitz attack? Until he gets Gracie out into

15:41

the field No, it is

15:43

a blitz attack and it's it's

15:45

hard to say whether he is purposely using

15:47

the sharp edge of the axe in select

15:50

instances Or is he

15:52

as he's just swinging the axe, you know,

15:54

he's losing track of You

15:56

know the orientation of the head, you know,

15:59

and so You'll see this

16:01

sometimes when somebody is bludgeoning, let's

16:03

say with a very distinctive object,

16:05

such as a hammer. Sometimes

16:08

the hammerhead, you'll see these

16:10

circular, depressed skull fractures as the face of

16:12

the hammer is hitting the skull. But every

16:15

now and then you might see the claw

16:17

end or the side of the hammer being

16:19

used. And it's as the offender is striking

16:21

over and over again, the hammer

16:24

has turned and the offender's hand or

16:26

the victim has been, they turn relative

16:28

to the offender. And so different edges

16:30

of the weapon end up striking

16:32

the victim. It's hard to say

16:34

in this instance, is he purposely

16:37

choosing what end of the

16:39

axe is being used on different victims?

16:41

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18:32

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18:35

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18:37

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18:39

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for free on iOS and

19:13

Android. Nobody

19:16

can identify who this person

19:18

is. The 12-year-old boy from

19:21

one of our previous victims gave

19:23

the best, if we believe him,

19:25

gave the best description. Chunky, black

19:27

man, bare feet, pants kind of

19:29

pulled up, and that's

19:32

it. Even, you know, Mr. Dunham

19:34

can't give a good description because

19:36

he's holding a gun and trying

19:38

to get a shot off. So

19:40

the owner of the horse that has

19:42

been abandoned by our serial killer

19:44

is arrested very quickly. This guy

19:46

named Netherly Overton. He owned the

19:48

horse, but he's alibi'd number one,

19:50

and number two, he said, this horse was stolen from

19:52

my stables. I didn't have anything to do with this. And

19:54

the police believe him. There just

19:56

is not enough evidence on anybody

19:59

at this time. point. And

20:01

while the police are

20:04

investigating, it is not

20:06

a vigorous investigation necessarily,

20:08

according to people I've spoken to, until

20:11

we start to get to

20:13

Christmas time, 1885. So this is a year, right? December 30th was

20:16

the first murder

20:20

of this kind in 1884. Now

20:22

we're coming back to Christmas Eve, which is December 24th

20:24

of 1885. The City Council had offered a reward and

20:27

they were trying

20:31

to get people more on the

20:33

case, but really this what happens

20:36

on this night, Christmas Eve, is what

20:38

changes the city and

20:40

their point of view, because there are two

20:43

more women who die in the same night

20:45

and they are both white. And this

20:48

is where things change. So the first

20:50

one, a woman named Susan

20:52

Hancock, she was in her early

20:55

40s and she was attacked first.

20:58

This is on what was 203 East Watcher

21:01

Street and this

21:03

is where now local folks where

21:06

First Street morphs into East Cesar

21:08

Chavez today. So right

21:10

downtown. She was the wife of a man

21:12

named Moses Hancock. He's described

21:14

as a carpenter. He's sometimes a mechanic.

21:17

They have two kids who

21:19

were away at a Christmas party when this happened. They

21:22

had fallen asleep, Susan and Moses,

21:24

in separate bedrooms, which is not at

21:26

all unusual, opposite sides of

21:28

the house. So the house was

21:30

unlocked. He enters. He goes into

21:33

Susan's bedroom. She's alone and

21:35

he hits her with an axe

21:37

while she's in bed. He drags

21:40

her into the backyard. Nobody hears

21:42

anything until Moses wakes up. He

21:44

hears a noise and

21:46

this is about midnight. Less than an

21:48

hour after the daughters had returned home

21:50

and gone to bed, he is woken

21:53

up. According to a TV station

21:55

here called Cave View that had covered the story, there's

21:57

a sinking feeling that he has that somebody's robbed

21:59

the house. He looks at

22:01

Susan's bed, it's soaked with blood, he

22:03

runs around frantically around the house looking

22:06

for her, he finally goes outside in

22:08

the backyard and she is alive but

22:10

barely. So the kids had

22:12

come home while the killer is in

22:15

the backyard with Susan. Moses

22:17

sees this shadowy outline of a man

22:19

on the lawn, he yells

22:21

for the neighbors, the man runs off. He

22:24

could not see anything, just that he

22:27

was wearing dark clothing. And

22:29

then I can tell you about Susan's wounds, I mean

22:31

there's a lot there, a 40 something

22:33

year old white woman who

22:35

has a male in the house and

22:37

drags her to the backyard with an

22:39

axe and signs of sexual assault. Well

22:42

it's similar to the other cases with a

22:44

male in the house where the intended victim

22:46

is being separated and this is now trying

22:48

to lower the risk to the offender so

22:51

he can spend more time committing

22:53

the sexual assault and the other acts of

22:55

violence on the woman. One of

22:57

the things that's that's interesting to me is

23:00

you have the kids who aren't

23:02

in the house but come home.

23:05

Is part of the reason he is dragging

23:07

Susan away from the house, is he aware

23:09

that potentially kids are going to be

23:11

coming home? Does he have intelligence as to

23:14

what's going on inside with the family that

23:16

night? You know, I don't know at this

23:18

point but that from an investigative standpoint would

23:20

be something I just kind of tuck away

23:23

going huh does he know

23:25

what's happening that night and that's the reason

23:27

he is dragging Susan away. Why doesn't

23:29

he just go in to Moses's bedroom

23:31

while he's asleep, hit him in the head

23:33

with the axe, you know,

23:35

and then spend time with Susan in

23:38

the safety and the privacy of

23:40

the house. That would be the

23:42

easiest thing for him possibly to be able

23:44

to do. He elevates his risk by having

23:46

to potentially confront the male but

23:49

it seems like that is

23:51

a scenario that the offender could

23:53

choose but he doesn't. So

23:55

that's informative as to what the offender

23:57

is thinking as he's trying to play.

24:00

this crime and as he's committing the crime. Do

24:02

you think that the change in age from

24:05

20s and 30s into 40s or

24:07

the color of her skin is

24:09

significant in any way? You

24:11

know at this point you know based

24:13

on my experience I don't

24:16

think I can put any weight on

24:18

the change in the victimology from

24:20

black to white victim there could

24:22

be something there or is

24:25

he just out prowling and

24:27

he happens to look in a window

24:29

and sees an adult woman who's asleep

24:31

by herself inside this house and decides

24:33

I'm going to do this and it

24:35

doesn't matter what her race is it

24:37

doesn't matter that she's oh she's in

24:39

her 40s versus her 20s we just

24:41

don't know at this point

24:44

either scenario is a possibility. Well

24:46

let me tell you about the state

24:48

of the room and then I'll tell

24:50

you about her wounds. Susan's trunks had

24:53

been rifled through the clothing was thrown

24:55

all over the room the window was

24:58

opened and there was blood on the

25:00

window sill. I have no idea what that

25:03

means if that's her putting her hand up

25:05

or he gets in or he's getting I

25:07

don't know what that means but

25:09

there's blood the room is

25:11

in disarray someone finds the

25:14

bloodied axe which interestingly was

25:16

the Hancock's axe it

25:19

was typically out by their woodpile so he

25:21

just grabbed it and used it. Is that

25:23

different? I'm not sure that

25:26

there is any opinion as to whether or not

25:28

he's bringing let's say a personal axe or

25:31

as he as he's out prowling he

25:33

runs across various weapons

25:35

maybe in neighbor's yards not necessarily

25:37

the victim's yards or victim's

25:39

property so this is

25:42

not surprising that he's using something that

25:44

is readily present and in many ways

25:46

you know this is what

25:48

criminals do is they

25:51

if they're out and about they're

25:53

not necessarily going to have the burglary tools

25:55

on them or the the weapons on them

25:58

they know they can go into any

26:00

house and find something in

26:02

order to accomplish the crime. So

26:05

if they're caught by law enforcement while they're

26:07

out, let's say, walking in a neighborhood, they

26:10

don't want to be caught with a knife or

26:13

in this case, an axe, because that would be

26:15

kind of suspicious. Right

26:17

now, without further details, it's hard

26:19

to draw any conclusions in terms

26:21

of what the offender is intending

26:23

to do, why he chose Susan, and

26:26

then what are the dynamics of

26:28

the crime. But there is

26:30

an interesting aspect in that he is finding

26:33

the window in which

26:35

Susan is alone, the kids are out

26:37

of the house, Moses is asleep in

26:39

a separate bedroom, and he's

26:41

purposefully dragging Susan away in order to

26:43

be able to sexually assault her. Now,

26:46

you said that there was more

26:48

wounds to Susan. She

26:50

had two deep head wounds which were consistent

26:53

with being struck with an axe. She

26:55

had been hit on her cheekbone as

26:58

well as between her left

27:00

ear and her left eye,

27:03

and he had used a

27:05

round rod-like instrument and

27:07

shoved it in her right ear. And

27:10

she eventually died, but she was alive through

27:12

all of that. And you indicated that there

27:14

was a significant amount of blood on the

27:16

bed in this case? The bed was soaked

27:19

with blood and there was blood on the

27:21

window sill, which could have been her, if

27:23

she's alive, covered in blood grabbing

27:25

for anything as he's dragging her outside,

27:27

who knows, or splatter. Sure, but

27:29

they're not describing that there's a bloody

27:31

trail that leads out the back door

27:33

or the front door? Not that

27:36

I can see, no. Okay, so with

27:38

these types of wounds, these head wounds, they

27:41

bleed extensively, and the amount

27:43

of blood inside the bedroom

27:45

is consistent with she received

27:48

these wounds, at least some of these wounds,

27:50

while she's in the bed. The fact that

27:52

we're not getting any descriptions of blood anywhere

27:54

else in the house tends to suggest that

27:57

she likely was taken out through the window.

28:00

Well, we have the

28:02

city physician arriving, William Jefferson

28:04

Burt. Again, if you've heard my

28:06

season eight of Tenfold More Wicked,

28:08

you will recognize that name. William

28:10

Jefferson Burt, he was a very

28:12

well-known physician. He reported to all

28:14

of these crime scenes. He

28:17

makes an odd decision. This sounds like

28:19

we're deviating, but it's kind of important. He

28:21

brings along his teenage son, who is a

28:23

young man named Eugene. He is 16. And

28:26

Eugene is

28:28

the one who found the axe in

28:30

the bedroom. So he brings it

28:32

down. He hands it to his dad. It's

28:35

covered in blood. And life

28:37

would move on, you know,

28:39

for the Burt family, except I

28:41

need to bring this up because it is

28:43

something I talk about in Tenfold. That season

28:45

is about Eugene Burt 12

28:48

years later, because at age 28, he

28:52

murders his wife and his two young

28:54

girls with an axe. And he wraps

28:56

them up with wire and cloth and

28:59

shoves them down his cistern. And one

29:01

last thing before you react. When he

29:03

was a child, he had impaled a

29:06

live bunny rabbit

29:08

with a railroad

29:10

tie. Paul, you're

29:12

like, I need a drink for all that.

29:14

Can a 16-year-old do

29:17

this? I think I will tell you, I think

29:19

this absolutely influenced him. I don't know.

29:21

He was briefly thought about because he

29:23

found the axe. But 16. Well,

29:26

you know, I think Eugene, you

29:29

know, this torture killing of the

29:31

bunny rabbit, as I've mentioned in

29:33

prior episodes, to me, that's the

29:35

number one predictor of the various

29:38

serial killer triad aspects that

29:41

somebody is going to escalate to

29:43

inflicting violence on humans. So

29:46

I would say, yes, this

29:48

in all likelihood, his exposure

29:50

to this crime would

29:52

be something that probably

29:54

fed Eugene's fantasy

29:57

as he grew up. indicate

30:00

Eugene likely, even at

30:02

this young age, already was

30:05

predisposed to thinking about violence.

30:08

You know, and so this may have shaped how

30:10

he committed his crime when he got into his

30:12

20s. But we

30:15

don't think a 16-year-old could pull off

30:17

all of this, I assume, right? Well,

30:19

I wouldn't necessarily eliminate the

30:21

offender based on the age. A

30:24

16-year-old teenage boy is

30:26

very physically capable. This

30:28

would be an unusual series

30:30

of crimes for a 16-year-old to have committed

30:32

and is, at least

30:35

right now, inconsistent with the witness.

30:37

You know, the 12-year-old boy who saw

30:40

the chunky black man with bare feet.

30:43

Specific. That bare feet

30:45

characteristic really puts a lot

30:47

of veracity on the 12-year-old's

30:50

details. And

30:52

I believe that the 12-year-old is

30:54

seeing the offender and is able

30:56

to accurately portray the physical characteristics of

30:58

the offender in the series. Eugene

31:01

doesn't match those characteristics, I'm assuming.

31:04

No, he doesn't. And you know,

31:06

I have photos of his brothers,

31:08

and then I have good drawings

31:10

of Eugene. And he is

31:12

not a large man as an adult. I can't

31:14

imagine as a 16-year-old. He's not

31:16

some strapping 16-year-old. Certainly

31:19

nobody asked about alibis back then. But

31:22

I think you're right. You know, when he lobotomized

31:24

this bunny rabbit when he was very young, it

31:26

was a very, very complex, his brother's bunny rabbit.

31:29

When somebody said, why did you do

31:31

that? He said, because I'm interested in

31:33

my dad's job. And his dad was

31:35

essentially a medical examiner for the city.

31:38

So it's very dark. I mean, I had

31:40

thought that. Like I doubt Eugene Burt is

31:43

responsible for this. I do think

31:45

that this series of crimes and hearing about it

31:47

from his father really influenced him

31:49

later on. Right. And

31:51

this is where, at this

31:53

point in time, if Eugene is

31:55

in a pool of suspects, from

31:57

my perspective he's a weak suspect.

32:00

But he's not eliminated. He's just somebody

32:03

that is a name

32:05

in my file, and if there's more

32:07

information that causes Eugene to kind of

32:09

bubble up, then I would

32:12

start drilling down on Eugene a little

32:14

bit more. But my efforts investigatively would

32:16

probably be looking at other individuals and

32:19

other individuals that match this, what appears

32:22

to be a good physical description of

32:24

the offender. Well, the

32:26

police don't have time to think

32:28

about suspects because another

32:31

murder happened within an

32:33

hour. I mean, unreal on

32:35

Christmas Eve. KV24, which

32:37

shout out to KV24, I used to work there when

32:40

I was a kid, did this story, of course, at

32:42

a television station. They did the story. They

32:44

said that while a statesman,

32:46

Austin American Statesman newspaper reporter

32:48

was gathering information on the

32:51

Hancock case, standing on the

32:53

lawn, a shriek rang out

32:55

and another murder had

32:57

occurred, this time at the

33:00

home of an architect named James

33:02

Phillips Sr. This is

33:04

now on 8th Street, so this is

33:06

not very far away from where they

33:08

were before kind of 1st Street area.

33:10

This is a 17-year-old named Yula Phillips.

33:14

She was well known in Austin

33:16

society. White woman, of course, described

33:18

as a great beauty and married

33:20

into a well-to-do family. She

33:23

was discovered when police ran there

33:25

from the Hancock residence. They run

33:27

there and they find her on

33:29

her back with her nightgown

33:31

pulled up around her neck, which is

33:33

how they describe as a sexual assault.

33:36

It's believed that her gown was used

33:38

by the killer to drag her outside

33:41

like a rope. She

33:43

had been struck above her nose with

33:45

an axe, which split her forehead down

33:47

the middle and she had been

33:52

hit on the side of the head with the axe. And

33:55

this is the weird part, it seemed like

33:57

her attacker staged her body. There

33:59

were three small pieces of wood

34:01

laid across her chest and her

34:03

stomach and her arms were outstretched.

34:06

Skip Hollingsworth said it looked

34:08

like she was posed like

34:11

a figure in some twisted

34:13

crucifixion scene. Jeez. Now

34:15

this is this is very informative and I

34:20

definitely want to address the

34:22

term staging versus posing. Okay.

34:24

And staging is when

34:26

the offender does certain things to

34:28

try to make the crime look

34:30

like something that it's not in

34:33

order to misdirect the investigation. Posing

34:37

is purposefully putting the victim's

34:39

body in a certain position

34:42

or objects on the body.

34:44

We've seen this many times. I've

34:46

seen this. And this

34:48

now with with Yula, I mean

34:50

this is posing. This

34:52

is the offender. Now this is

34:55

the offender taunting. Now I can

34:57

draw an opinion. You have two

34:59

white women on Christmas Eve both

35:02

in nice houses, nice

35:04

neighborhoods, killed within an hour of each

35:06

other or roughly, you know,

35:09

at least within the same same night.

35:11

And you have one victim being

35:13

posed in a manner with the

35:16

objects placed on her body as

35:18

sort of as a taunt. The

35:20

offender is now seeking attention.

35:22

He is now I'm the boogeyman

35:24

out here. You can't catch me.

35:27

And this sort of absolves Eugene Burt, doesn't

35:29

it? Because he's with his dad at the

35:32

first crime scene when this is happening with

35:34

the second crime scene. Unless it's

35:36

the shriek of her. Now they aren't clear about the

35:38

shriek. Unless it's the shriek of somebody

35:40

discovering her. But I got

35:43

the impression it's more like the attack. Let

35:45

me tell you what happens inside the house. So

35:48

her husband was home. 24 year

35:50

old James Jimmy Phillips. He

35:53

was in bed with her with their

35:55

baby Thomas. Thomas is not

35:57

hurt. He is covered with blood. to

36:00

me was struck just above his

36:02

ear with an axe while

36:04

sleeping in bed. He survives. And

36:07

they find the bloodied axe, I mean which

36:09

he picked up another one because he left

36:11

the other one at the Hancock scene. There's

36:13

a bloody axe found at the foot of

36:16

the bed as was

36:18

another footprint. This is in blood

36:20

and they said it is on

36:22

the floorboard of the house and

36:24

it is clear that this person

36:27

is missing a little toe. Blood

36:29

is better, right, than dirt or snow

36:31

in identifying whether somebody is missing a

36:34

little toe. No, because

36:36

you think about it. Let's

36:38

say the reason there's blood on the bottom

36:40

of the offender's foot is he stepped in

36:42

a source of blood. Now

36:44

does this source of blood uniformly coat the

36:47

bottom of his foot or

36:49

does it just happen to miss his

36:51

little toe? You know? That's so

36:54

you could see where that could account for the

36:56

missing little toe. But you

36:58

have the prior footprint that they

37:00

had concluded while it's missing the

37:03

toe. So two different bare

37:05

footprints in different mediums

37:08

and in each instance no

37:10

little toe. That gives me greater confidence

37:13

that this offender's toe is either missing

37:15

or is configured in a way to

37:17

which it would not touch the substrate

37:19

when it's planted. Maybe it's got a

37:22

deformity and it causes it to kind

37:24

of arch upwards. You know, I don't

37:26

know. I'm sure there's medical conditions or

37:29

the offender had broken the toe and

37:31

it healed funny and so it's not

37:33

part of his natural footprint

37:35

though it might be present. You know

37:37

it's interesting about little toes and I never thought I'd

37:39

be talking about this again with a killer, but

37:42

Edward Ruloff, who was my multiple

37:44

murderer in season one of tenfold,

37:47

he got frostbite. He was on the

37:49

run in Pennsylvania. He got frostbite. He

37:51

lost his little toe. He had a

37:53

pair of leather shoes specifically made structured

37:56

for his little missing toe. He did

37:58

a robbery. He left the an

38:00

idiot. He left the shoes behind and

38:03

of course they said this is a

38:05

weird shoe and that's ultimately what at

38:07

least got him indicted was that this

38:09

was something at the scene this was

38:12

clearly something specially made so it'll be

38:14

interesting how this turns out this bit

38:16

like a print in the blood on

38:19

the floorboard and then they removed the

38:21

floorboard to preserve it for hopefully figuring

38:23

out who did this. Yeah

38:25

you know and of course I'd want to know

38:27

was there a ridge detail present. Yeah. In this

38:29

day and age we could actually do a comparison.

38:32

Sorry buddy. Now I want

38:34

to bring up something about casing I guess

38:36

is I don't know if there's probably a better word

38:38

for it but he went

38:40

a mile so he attacked Susan

38:42

Hancock and then he went a

38:44

mile to get to Eula Phillips.

38:48

At midnight and 1 a.m. he

38:51

has to know who these people are don't

38:53

you think or has been casing this or

38:56

something because how would he have been able to

38:58

do this in such a tight timeframe

39:01

assault and kill two women

39:03

in it sounds like about an

39:05

hour and a half time period that are not

39:07

right next door to each other they're a mile

39:09

apart. Yeah I would lean

39:12

towards you know he has been

39:14

out prowling in this these neighborhoods

39:16

and possibly pre-selected victims and

39:19

he may have had other victims

39:21

pre-selected but for whatever reason he

39:23

ended up going to Eula's location

39:25

versus maybe a different one but

39:28

there is a misconception that these

39:30

crimes take a long time to

39:32

commit and oftentimes

39:34

I mean these crimes that this offender

39:36

is committing for the most part they're

39:39

going to be measured in minutes you

39:42

know this hour and a half I

39:45

mean he could have killed Susan probably

39:47

spent let's see she's she's drug into

39:49

the backyard so you know a little

39:51

bit of time there you know

39:53

but once he dispatches her does he have

39:55

an hour hour 15 to

39:57

cover the mild distance and

40:00

then be able to commit the attack

40:02

on Eula. I'd say that's a possibility,

40:04

you know, and he's just out prowling

40:06

and then finding another victim. I wouldn't

40:09

draw any conclusions. You know, again, I'm

40:12

a little bit more just because the

40:14

possibility of different scenarios I think are

40:16

equal. You know, I

40:18

lean towards he has prowled

40:21

in the neighborhood prior and

40:23

has likely selected a variety

40:25

of victims and it just happened this

40:27

night he chose Susan Eula. So

40:29

let me bring this up. I think

40:31

the police at this point are not

40:33

now a hundred percent convinced that the

40:36

attacks on the two white women are

40:38

connected to the attacks on

40:40

the black women and Orange and

40:42

any anybody else who was around.

40:44

I think because of change of

40:46

race. Yes. And the blitz. So

40:49

what do they do? They arrest the

40:51

husbands of these two white women and

40:53

they both go on trial and

40:56

I could tell you all kinds of stuff

40:58

about how the trial went but they're both

41:00

acquitted. One spends a year in jail but

41:03

they're both acquitted. Neither of these guys

41:05

are the greatest guys in the world

41:07

but there's just not enough evidence. What

41:10

becomes significant is this

41:12

floorboard from the Phillips house. They

41:15

compare it to both men and

41:17

the footprint doesn't match either guy

41:19

and everybody's got ten fingers, ten

41:21

toes, everything's normal. So

41:24

they are now at a dead end. I mean

41:26

we could talk a long time about the trials

41:28

of the men are both interesting but

41:30

this is something that is

41:33

you know significant. They

41:35

are now out of leads at this point with

41:37

these two women dead and these men all you

41:40

know now acquitted. Well how often

41:42

do we see this though where

41:44

the spouse is often targeted in

41:46

the investigation and then possibly arrested

41:49

and or convicted and then subsequently

41:51

turns out that was wrong and

41:53

it was a stranger that had

41:55

come in and committed the crime.

41:58

So during Moses Hancock's trial While

42:00

his defense attorney who was a

42:02

very famous Us Congressman named John

42:04

Hancock no relation brought up i'm

42:07

a name based on the little

42:09

toe. And the name

42:11

was Nice and Elgon. He was

42:13

a young black man who was

42:15

missing a tiny toe and he

42:18

was known a very good person.

42:20

and that created enough reasonable doubt

42:22

for the jury to say we

42:24

don't think most as Hancock was

42:26

responsible for this. There's someone else

42:28

out there so we can talk

42:30

about Nathan Elgon because Paul He

42:32

is our prime suspect. He is

42:35

who most people think was the

42:37

servant. Girl annihilate are no powders.

42:39

The defence attorney know that nice

42:41

and old in as missing his

42:43

toe. He has been in and

42:46

out of jail. He's been arrested for

42:48

various being a jerk things and they

42:50

know that he has a missing toe.

42:53

It's just been something that's been documented,

42:55

but he has not been connected directly

42:57

to the servant girl just yet until

42:59

police start. Digging into it. He

43:02

is a young black man who

43:04

at the time of the Servant

43:06

Girl murders was working as a

43:08

cook in a restaurant called Simon's

43:10

This was on the corner of

43:12

Congress Avenue which is so Congress

43:15

Avenue and Pecan Street which is

43:17

Sick. Street Pbs did a wonderful

43:19

his story Detectives on this. Case

43:21

and they called it. I just want

43:23

to have this quote here at the

43:25

address was in the top one percent

43:28

hot zones of probability and the map

43:30

of our geographic profile or had created

43:32

about this so that's where he was

43:34

at. This restaurant that is right in

43:36

the middle of. All of these murderers

43:39

that he's a cook when he's a

43:41

cook. And he was

43:43

never arrested. He was

43:45

off the radar for all of eighteen

43:47

Eighty five for police. in

43:50

till something happens so this is where

43:52

i want to know if there's even

43:54

enough evidence for this for me to

43:56

say you and ends up happening so

43:58

it's february of eighteen eighty six There

44:00

have been no murders since

44:02

Christmas Day, technically, 1 a.m.,

44:04

Christmas Day of So

44:07

we've gone all of January

44:09

with no murders. Nathan Elgin

44:11

is in a saloon. He

44:14

is attacking a woman, like yelling at

44:17

her, beating her. He's trying to drag

44:19

her from the saloon and into a

44:21

nearby house. He's being violent. And

44:24

he gets into an altercation with the police and they

44:26

kill him. I know. That's

44:28

a problem because people suspect him, but

44:31

there is absolutely no proof, except

44:33

he worked in the area where all these

44:35

people were killed. He fits

44:37

the description and he's missing a little

44:39

toe. Had he been interviewed

44:41

during the investigation at all? Did he give

44:43

any statements? Nope. So listen,

44:45

they made a plaster cast of his foot

44:48

after he was killed. And

44:51

then I don't know if this works

44:53

or not. They compared it, this cast,

44:55

to the bloody footprint and it appeared

44:57

to be a perfect match. Really?

45:01

Is that a thing? Can that

45:03

happen? You know, this idea of being

45:05

a perfect match, it's at what level

45:07

did they effect this match? Was it

45:09

just class characteristics in terms of the

45:13

size, the shape, the

45:15

missing toe? Was there

45:17

other features present in the

45:19

bloody evidence print that also

45:21

were present on his foot?

45:25

I would call it guesstimating is what my best guess would

45:27

be for 1886. I

45:30

would say, you know, they

45:32

couldn't eliminate him versus it being a

45:34

match. You know, that's typically, you know,

45:36

when we start talking comparative sciences and

45:39

we've talked about comparative sciences in the

45:41

past and some of the pros and

45:43

cons of this type of evidence,

45:47

oftentimes, particularly I

45:49

imagine in the early days,

45:51

there would be opinions expressed that are

45:54

way too strong of an association. So

45:57

for somebody to go in front of a

45:59

jury and say, say this bloody

46:01

print perfectly matches Nathan's

46:04

foot. In

46:07

my opinion, would be a wrong statement.

46:09

We cannot find anything in the bloody

46:12

print that eliminates Nathan's foot as having

46:14

made it is a more appropriate way

46:16

to put it out there. Now, how

46:18

strong of an association is it? Don't

46:21

know. The missing toe is significant. Is

46:24

there ridge detail present, even if

46:26

a minimal amount, but could that

46:29

be inter-compared? It's just like the

46:31

crease lines, like in the palms of

46:33

your hands. Are those present within this

46:35

bloody print? That

46:37

would be a class characteristic

46:39

that has some distinguishing aspect

46:42

to further the association. I

46:44

would say right now the

46:46

perfect match statement is something

46:48

that I would discard, but

46:51

at least it's not like he has a

46:53

size 15 foot and the bloody print is

46:55

a size 8. It sounds like at least,

46:57

okay, he could have made this bloody print.

47:00

Yeah. I mean, they acknowledge that the

47:02

two husbands, their footprints didn't even remotely

47:04

match the one on the floorboard.

47:07

I don't know what the characteristics are

47:09

that they looked at, really. I do

47:12

know that one of the number one

47:14

things that made investigators say, we think

47:16

this case is closed with Nathan Elgin's

47:19

death, is that there were no more

47:21

murders after he died. That

47:24

was it. They were done nothing even remotely

47:26

like this. People were killed with Axsap all

47:28

the time, but this was not it. They

47:30

died when he died. The first

47:32

two victims, Molly and

47:35

Eliza, they both were

47:37

cooks. Maybe

47:39

this was a common occupation, but

47:41

at the same time, that would

47:43

be something I'd be looking at.

47:45

Why were these women selected? The

47:48

offender have prior knowledge. Can I

47:50

show that? Nathan knew any

47:52

of these victims previously. Even

47:54

though you said, hey, Austin had

47:57

gone through this exponential growth, it's

47:59

still town of what 25,

48:01

30,000? This is a small town. Yeah.

48:05

Well, I will say one interesting point is this

48:07

woman that he was beating on and trying

48:09

to drag from the saloon to a house,

48:12

it sounds like she had no idea who he was.

48:14

It was random. So that is

48:16

another little check in the MO

48:18

of this guy. Well, yeah,

48:20

he's showing a willingness

48:23

to commit violence on women. He's

48:25

fitting the physical description of the

48:28

12-year-old boy, which I'm putting a

48:30

fair amount of weight on in

48:32

terms of the accuracy of that

48:34

physical description. Physical evidence,

48:37

the bloody evidence print footprint

48:40

seems to at least be

48:42

within range of Nathan's one

48:44

foot. I don't know if it's a right foot or left

48:46

foot. One of the things I think you mentioned is that

48:48

Nathan had been in and out

48:51

of jail. Seems like

48:53

it, yes. There were some, from what I've

48:55

read, there were some altercations. He was a

48:58

violent guy. Yeah. But I

49:00

don't have any more information than that.

49:02

You know, part of what I would

49:04

be looking at would be, okay, I'm

49:07

gonna timeline everything that I can substantiate

49:09

about Nathan's whereabouts, whether it be in

49:11

custody or interactions with law enforcement or,

49:14

you know, various things in which, yeah,

49:16

we know Nathan is here, here, here

49:18

on these dates and times and

49:21

then match that timeline up

49:23

with when we have these attacks. If

49:26

Nathan is in jail for one

49:28

of these attacks, then well he

49:30

couldn't have committed that crime and

49:32

since it seems like these, all

49:35

these attacks are related, then that

49:37

potentially could eliminate him as the

49:39

servant girl annihilator. But I'm

49:41

assuming we don't have that kind of data

49:43

on Nathan in order to be able to

49:45

do that. And, you know, I would

49:48

say in 1886 when

49:50

this really is coming to a head and he's

49:52

dead, the police probably did

49:54

do some due diligence. Certainly he

49:56

didn't have an alibi, but I

49:59

think Because this has been the

50:02

accepted suspect for a

50:04

hundred and something years, there was

50:07

probably not a definitive, no, this

50:09

guy was in jail or this

50:11

guy was at sea

50:13

or something. There must have

50:15

been enough wiggle room wherever he

50:17

was that he could have done this. But

50:20

this case was dropped. There

50:22

were no more murders. There

50:25

was an interesting rumor besides

50:28

the fact that Nathan Elgin

50:30

had died. If you are

50:32

not satisfied with that, perhaps

50:34

you can open your mind to the idea that

50:37

whoever committed these killings

50:39

wanted to get the hell out

50:41

of America and made it to

50:44

England and became Jack the

50:46

Ripper two years later. Because

50:48

that is a theory that has gone around.

50:50

No. That's quite a smirk.

50:53

No. I don't buy that. I

50:56

don't see any overlap with

50:59

these two series in terms

51:01

of victimology, what

51:03

the offenders' behaviors are with each of

51:05

the victims. They are

51:07

very distinct. These are two different

51:09

offenders, Jack the Ripper and then

51:11

the servant girl Annihilator. At

51:14

this point in time, this Nathan

51:16

Elgin, I agree. He seems

51:18

like a very strong suspect.

51:21

With what they had on him, does

51:24

it rise to the level of

51:26

probable cause? I

51:28

think I would need to see exactly

51:30

this bloody footprint

51:34

and Nathan's foot to

51:37

see how strong of a match could be

51:39

affected. Is that strong

51:42

enough from a physical evidence standpoint to

51:44

say, yes, Nathan is the one that

51:46

left that bloody footprint? Then I think you've got

51:48

the PC. Otherwise, I think he

51:51

is a very strong suspect. This

51:54

alarmed Austin for a very

51:56

long time. There were private citizen

51:58

groups that formed. watch groups to

52:00

patrol the neighborhoods and you know they

52:02

were people who closed down saloons and

52:05

people were very scared but eventually when

52:07

they figured out that the killings were

52:09

gone and people were connecting it to

52:11

Nathan Elgin then that all

52:14

sort of went away. I mean there was always

52:16

an increase in security as the city got bigger

52:18

and bigger but ultimately this

52:20

is the grandest unsolved case in

52:22

Austin with the exception of the

52:25

yogurt shop murders and

52:27

I'm not going to get into those you

52:29

can Google them because that's so awful.

52:31

In the realm of history the

52:34

yogurt shop murders for me as an

52:36

unsolved case are number one but very

52:38

close is the servant girl annihilator murders

52:41

and I will say Paul you know for

52:43

that season of tenfold what I did was

52:46

I like to go to cemeteries graveyards

52:48

to try to find the headstones of

52:50

these people and it was not difficult to

52:52

find Yula and it was not difficult to

52:54

find Susan but the other

52:56

victims who were black were all

52:59

in unmarked graves from what I

53:01

could tell in a graveyard that

53:04

was meant specifically for black people in the

53:06

late 1800s in the historic area

53:08

and so it was just a

53:10

very stark reminder I have these

53:12

two beautiful photos of Yula

53:15

and Susan the white victims and

53:17

it's not the same case with the other

53:20

victims sure you know

53:22

and it's sad to think think that

53:24

and you know everybody deserves to be

53:26

remembered you know and I

53:29

know you're talking about this series as being

53:31

an unsolved series I would just

53:33

say it sounds like to

53:35

me it's just not a closed series

53:38

but in all likelihood

53:40

it seems like they have the right

53:42

guy this Nathan Olgin I agree

53:45

well what a story and

53:47

I will take a few days off and

53:50

process this and everything that you've said

53:53

and I will bring you another

53:55

compelling story not located in Austin

53:57

Texas sadly next week all

53:59

right forward to it.

54:01

Thanks, Bob. This

54:07

has been an Exactly Right production.

54:09

For our sources and show

54:11

notes, go to exactly right

54:13

media.com/buried bones sources. Our senior

54:15

producer is Alexis Amorosi. Research

54:18

by Maren McClashan, Allie Elkin

54:20

and Kate Winkler-Dawson. Our mixing

54:22

engineer is Ben Taladei. Our

54:25

theme song is by Tom

54:27

Breifogle. Our artwork is by

54:29

Vanessa Lilac. Executive-produced by Karen

54:31

Kilgarif, Georgia Hardstark and Daniel

54:33

Brever. You can follow buried bones

54:35

on Instagram and Facebook at buried

54:37

bones pod. Kate's most recent book, All That

54:39

is Wicked, a gilded age story of murder

54:42

and the race to decode the criminal mind,

54:44

is available now. And Paul's

54:46

best-selling memoir, Unmasked, My Life

54:48

Solving America's Gold Cases, is

54:50

also available now. you