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better dot email. Yes.

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That's the domain name. Just plug it on into

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thing better dot email.

1:13

And now on with the show. Hey,

1:17

so I have good news and

1:19

I have bad news. And I will

1:21

do the bad news first because, I mean,

1:23

I don't know about you, but if someone

1:25

tells me bad news is coming, I don't have

1:27

patience for anything else. Give me the bad news.

1:29

Tell me what I'm in for. So, okay,

1:31

here it is. The bad news is

1:34

this podcast billed for tomorrow

1:36

is going on hiatus. I don't

1:38

know for how long it could be a very

1:40

long time. And I'll explain more about

1:42

that in a second, but I want to tell you the

1:44

good news too, which is this

1:47

is not goodbye. In fact, you

1:49

are about to get a lot more of

1:51

me. That's because I already

1:53

have a new podcast. It's called

1:55

help wanted and it comes out twice

1:58

a week and it is designed to help

2:00

you solve all your work problems and

2:02

maybe even some life problems too.

2:04

I'm really really excited about

2:06

it and the feedback has already been extraordinary.

2:09

I will play an episode of it for you in just

2:11

a few minutes, but I know you're like, wait

2:13

a second. Can we get back to the part about billed for

2:15

tomorrow going on hiatus? So

2:17

yeah, about that. Let me

2:19

start at the beginning. Long time listeners

2:22

will know that this show started

2:24

in twenty sixteen with a different

2:26

name. It was called pessimist's

2:28

archive, and it was an extension of a

2:30

popular Twitter feed, and it explored by

2:33

used to hate the innovations that today

2:35

we love, like cars and teddy bears

2:37

and so on. Doing that show

2:39

made me curious about the nature

2:42

of change in general. Like, why

2:44

do we fear it? And how can we overcome

2:47

that fear? And how does that apply to our lives

2:49

now? Not just historically. And

2:52

those questions drove me to rebrand

2:54

the show, Build For Tomorrow, and then to write

2:56

a book that's also called Build For Tomorrow, and

2:58

It is not an understatement to say that

3:00

making this show totally changed

3:03

my life. And I hear from many

3:05

many listeners who say that it changed way

3:07

that they think, which is the highest

3:09

possible compliment, as far as I'm concerned.

3:12

But here is the thing. From

3:14

the beginning, this show was

3:17

a labor of love in every

3:20

sense. It used to take me three

3:22

months to make an episode because each one

3:24

required multiple interviews and a ton

3:26

of research and writing like an eight

3:28

thousand word script, and then assembling

3:31

all that together. And it it was just mostly

3:33

me doing it myself. Eventually,

3:36

I got the process down to one episode

3:38

a month, which felt like a Herculean accomplishment

3:41

and that was made possible and thanks to

3:43

paying some very talented people to help me

3:45

with the research and editing and you've heard their

3:47

names in the credits for a while. But

3:49

still, what you didn't

3:51

see was me reaching a breaking

3:54

point, like, every month

3:56

to make this thing four years.

3:59

I would work on it in the morning, late at night.

4:01

Every episode was a scramble. Two

4:03

December's ago, I finished making an episode

4:05

of this podcast in the same month that I had

4:07

to file the first draft of my book and

4:09

also finish a huge issue of the magazine

4:11

that I edit. And then for real, I

4:13

got shingles. I got actual

4:15

shingles. Which is a thing you get when you're

4:18

old and very stressed out. You want my

4:20

advice? Don't get shingles. So

4:23

anyway, after months of being

4:25

in denial about this, I realized I

4:27

have reached the actual breaking

4:30

point. Like, something needs to change.

4:32

And as a guy who has spent years making

4:35

a podcast about change, I had

4:37

to take what I'd learned seriously. Also,

4:40

in the last few months, something else happened,

4:42

which is that my friend Nicole Lapin,

4:44

who is a selling money expert came

4:46

to me with an idea. What if

4:48

we created a podcast to help people

4:50

with their stickiest work problems? It

4:53

is such an of the moment idea because,

4:55

of course, work feels crazy right

4:57

now. Everything is changing. We're all trying

4:59

to figure out how to be successful but also

5:01

to be happy, which is basically the theme

5:03

of this little confessional I'm telling you,

5:06

there's just so much to know into

5:08

balance and to juggle and not

5:10

enough people to hear from

5:13

who can help. So Nicole and

5:15

I decided to do this. We made a new show.

5:17

It's called help wanted. And

5:19

like I said, I will play an episode for you

5:21

in a moment. What is help wanted?

5:23

Oftentimes Nicole and I talk through problems

5:26

ourselves and get very real about the challenges

5:28

we've faced in our own careers. But we also

5:30

bring on listeners who are facing real

5:33

problems and talk them through it. Like

5:35

someone who's making a great product

5:37

that nobody is buying and they can't figure

5:40

out why or they're looking to

5:42

make big career change and don't know the first

5:44

step to take or they just got laid off

5:46

like days before we talk to them.

5:48

Also, we talk a lot about communication, no

5:50

Nicole and I will read good

5:52

and bad emails that people send us

5:54

and break them down. And we

5:56

are here to help you too. If you have question

5:58

for us, all you have to do is reach out. I

6:00

also do weekly solo episodes

6:03

where I share the best advice I've gotten

6:05

and the tactics I use to do all sorts of

6:07

things like be more productive without

6:09

burning out or improve your public speaking

6:11

or write a book or generally just work smarter

6:13

and achieve more. Help one, comes

6:16

out twice a week, and I think you'll love

6:18

it, and hope you'll subscribe. Now,

6:20

you might think, Jason just

6:22

talked about being stretched too thin. And now

6:24

he's putting out literally eight times the

6:26

number of episodes that he did with build for tomorrow.

6:28

So what is this? To which I say,

6:31

good point. But this is

6:33

the power of having a simpler format

6:36

and an amazing team to handle all the production,

6:38

which is exactly what help want it. Is

6:41

a big thing I learned from this

6:43

podcast built for tomorrow is you

6:45

cannot just build something you love,

6:48

you must also build something you can

6:50

maintain. So to everyone

6:52

who's been listening to build for tomorrow either

6:54

more recently or for many years, thank

6:57

you. It has meant so much.

6:59

I promise this will not be the last time

7:01

you hear from me on this feed. But

7:04

also, I am so excited for everything

7:06

we're doing at help wanted, and I hope you'll

7:08

join me there. You can find help

7:10

wanted wherever you get podcasts or

7:13

by clicking the link in this episode's

7:15

show notes. And now, here's

7:17

help wanted. This

7:27

is help, Martin. The show that tackles

7:29

all the big work questions you cannot ask

7:31

anyone

7:32

else. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor chief

7:34

of Entrepreneur Magazine. And

7:35

I'm New York Times best selling author and money

7:37

expert Nicole Lapin. The helpline

7:40

is open. Hey, Jason.

7:42

What are we doing today? We are gonna

7:44

help someone make some money, like, for

7:46

real. Hell yeah. Hell yeah because we have

7:49

listener who was called in with

7:51

a real problem and she's got days to make

7:53

a

7:53

decision.

7:54

Where did she call? Well, right. So she actually

7:56

email. She emailed help wanted money

7:58

news network dot com, which you, dear

8:01

listener, could do right now, if you have a question.

8:03

And in this case, what we're

8:05

going to be discussing is, what do

8:07

you do when you have another job

8:09

offer? And it's a good one and

8:11

you wanna see if you can get more

8:14

out of your existing employer. Let's

8:16

welcome Rhett.

8:19

Chelsea, hello. Thank you so much for

8:21

having me here. So you have a question.

8:23

What is that question? So I'm an executive

8:26

assistant at a large global organization

8:28

with over ten years of experience.

8:31

Occasionally, based on my resume, have recruiters

8:34

reach out, who I typically shrug

8:36

off because I'm happy with where I'm at in

8:38

my current

8:39

organization. I have

8:40

amazing benefits and I'm paid fairly

8:43

However, a recruiter reached out

8:45

few weeks back and asked me

8:47

to come on board to their team for a

8:50

little over thirty percent more of

8:52

what I'm making now as well as

8:55

a senior title. So my

8:57

question is, How do I present

8:59

this information to my current employer

9:01

when I want to

9:02

stay, but ultimately don't want

9:04

to let that significant financial leap

9:06

past me by? The

9:08

first thing that I really love that

9:10

you said here is that you

9:13

know what you would like

9:15

out of this because you said you want to stay.

9:18

So what their offering is appealing

9:20

and you would like that, but you wanna

9:23

marry that or at least part of it with your

9:25

current

9:25

situation. Right. Right. I wanna

9:27

say, you know, I we do get, you know,

9:29

the annual increases, but it's like,

9:31

you know, that four percent year over year

9:34

is is a little tricky

9:36

to keep being excited about when

9:38

I have opportunity and sometimes other

9:40

things come up too where it's just It's

9:42

a hard

9:43

one. It is. I think the biggest

9:45

question for you

9:47

is,

9:48

what is more important? The

9:51

current job or the money. I don't

9:53

really care about the senior

9:55

title as much. I do have ten years

9:57

of experience, but I have a young family, you

9:59

know, So to be able to have

10:01

that increase, pay for day

10:03

care, or pay for my

10:05

vehicles, or, you know, help with the mortgage

10:08

would be amazing. I just

10:11

don't know how different the

10:13

two rules would really be. Honestly,

10:15

the one thing that sticks up to me the most is

10:17

is the culture of my organization is so

10:20

focused on diversity, equity,

10:22

and inclusion. That's my

10:24

passion for work. I don't know,

10:26

but then it's like, this is thirty percent

10:28

tiny crazy bitch. So it's the

10:31

money.

10:32

It's the money. It's the money. It's always

10:34

the money. And this is like, literally

10:37

the perfect day and time to

10:39

be

10:39

having this conversation because I have to make

10:41

a decision by Monday morning. So

10:43

Oh my god. And we're talking on a Thursday. So

10:46

this is looming. Yes. Let's get down

10:48

to business. So who do you report to?

10:51

I support four high level

10:53

vice presidents in the

10:54

organization, but I report one

10:56

of them.

10:57

Okay. And that person, the

10:59

vice president, Mister, miss's

11:01

vice president? Miss? Miss

11:02

her vice president. Okay. Let's call him Bob.

11:05

Okay. He would be the one that

11:07

would approve a pay increase or

11:09

not. Right? I

11:10

think so. Okay. So who wants to

11:12

be Bob? I'll be Bob.

11:14

Alright. We're gonna role play. I guess it would

11:16

be important to know, like, what is on

11:19

Bob's mind right now. Like,

11:21

what is the climate? What's the microclimate within

11:24

the company? Is Bob under

11:26

pressure from his Bob

11:30

for, you know, bad numbers? Is

11:32

he being praised right now? Like, where

11:34

is Bob standing in the

11:36

organization? As far as you can tell.

11:38

Bob is at record highs. Cool.

11:40

Sweet. Yes. Good job, Bob. And how

11:43

much are you making

11:43

right now? Eighty five thousand. And

11:45

the the new job would be

11:48

a hundred

11:48

and twenty thousand.

11:49

Oh, that's a jump. Yeah. And

11:51

where well, maybe we

11:54

can just role play and see where you would go with

11:56

it. What do you think? Bob, are you in character?

11:59

Give me a moment. Give me a moment. I'm

12:02

finding my inner Bob. Okay. I

12:04

found him. Is Bob, wait

12:06

wait wait wait. See. I don't wait. I just don't know one

12:08

more thing. Oh, I just need to one more thing very

12:10

quickly. What's Bob like? Nice

12:12

guy, very straightforward. Late back,

12:14

what is what's Bob? Bob's very

12:17

nice guy. He's got

12:19

definitely an engineer's

12:21

brain. So he's constantly telling

12:23

jokes, but they're definitely bad jokes.

12:26

And dry.

12:27

Yeah. Yeah. He's a good guy

12:29

though. I like him a lot. Okay. That's that's

12:31

great to know. Okay. And see,

12:33

Okay. So good morning, Bob. We're in our weekly

12:36

one on one. We've likely gone through our week

12:38

plan, and I wanted to say, could

12:40

we shift gears for a second?

12:44

So and

12:45

this

12:45

is why I'm here, right, because I'm just

12:48

tossing where to go. So

12:51

Hey, Chelsea. How it's great to see you.

12:53

What's going on? Hi. So

12:55

so I wanted to shift gears on

12:57

you a little bit I was

13:00

recently approached by someone within

13:02

my circle who who

13:05

presented me with an opportunity. And

13:07

typically, I truck these off, but

13:10

this is one that I couldn't

13:12

ignore. There's a role

13:14

within a large company that you're probably

13:17

aware of. And maybe I shouldn't even say shouldn't

13:19

even reference the company. But there

13:21

is an opening for a senior level

13:23

executive assistant position, and they

13:25

are offering close to,

13:28

you know, thirty five percent of

13:30

an

13:30

increase.

13:31

On board. To bring me on board.

13:34

I mean, I'm just having a hard time and I know

13:36

you've had these conversations with other people on

13:38

our teams in the past, and I so that's

13:40

why I'm here coming to you asking

13:43

for advice, but

13:45

I'm, you know, I I love it here. I

13:47

love the people. I love the culture.

13:50

But I'm not sure where

13:53

to go from here knowing that

13:55

my annual increase

13:58

is going to be around five

14:00

percent. It's just

14:02

a a large leap. And like I've

14:04

said to you in the past, the the

14:07

title isn't necessarily important to me, but

14:09

I do realize that also open stores. And

14:11

I'm I'm just wondering how you suggest

14:13

or how how

14:15

we can move forward and if there

14:17

could be any potential changes to my

14:20

Annual

14:20

increase. What are

14:22

your thoughts, Bob? Well,

14:25

boy, Chelsea, you're very valued

14:27

here. I

14:29

really appreciate all the great work that

14:31

you do. Tim, we've we've been doing great

14:33

here in this team. I I would love to keep

14:35

this team together. And

14:37

we've given you a lot of raises over the years.

14:40

You know, you've been here and we've we've increased that

14:42

salary. And, you know,

14:44

as you know, economy

14:46

is tightening up So

14:49

the budget here are getting a little tighter.

14:51

We're trying think about battering down the

14:53

hatches little bit. Like any good

14:55

engineer does, And

14:58

so I I, you know, I

15:00

wonder if you are

15:02

gonna be as valued in that that other company.

15:04

We've got a really really good thing going here.

15:06

I I I'd love to see how to make it work,

15:09

but that's a that's a really big

15:11

leap. Right. Because

15:13

And then when I even go into saying

15:16

how I could potentially bring value to your

15:18

other organization, I feel like that's not

15:21

necessary. I already know, you

15:23

know, deep within myself, don't feel like

15:26

I need to explain, you know, this is why

15:28

I would be leaving. I

15:30

mean, it's it's the check. Maybe

15:33

it would be helpful to sort

15:35

of transition into explaining what

15:37

it is you would want. So

15:40

I would like to stay here, but I need this

15:42

increase. Something

15:44

so you can direct the

15:46

conversation toward your ultimate

15:48

goal. I think that's great advice

15:50

because you have not done that yet. You have

15:52

just asked Bob what Bob thinks.

15:55

And Bob has told you what he thought. Yeah. That's

15:57

That's so true. And another question

16:00

I had for you guys, so I like, there's a

16:02

number I'd be willing to stay for that is

16:04

not necessarily thirty plus

16:06

percent. It might be fifteen

16:08

percent. It might be twenty percent.

16:10

It would be fifteen. If they gave me

16:12

fifteen, I would say. But

16:14

how do I make sure that I'm asking?

16:17

Should I ask for more than what I want?

16:19

Or should I

16:22

ask for exactly. I'm not

16:24

trying to play games by any means. I just

16:26

don't know how to best advocate for

16:29

for that check essentially.

16:31

Okay. So I would go back let's go back into

16:33

the scene. I'm directing this

16:36

Oscar winning future film.

16:39

And so I would say, why don't you

16:42

try it? Let's practice and

16:44

tell Bob what you want.

16:46

Chelsea action. Okay.

16:49

Thanks so much. Really appreciate your

16:51

insight. What I'm wondering is

16:54

if you would consider giving

16:56

me a fifteen percent raise as

16:58

opposed to the five percent raise

17:01

for this year

17:03

in exchange for my continued

17:05

outstanding work. Well,

17:07

Chelsea, I I appreciate that. I appreciate

17:09

you being so straightforward with what

17:11

you're looking for, this

17:14

isn't a decision that I get to make

17:16

by myself. I have to talk to

17:18

Bob, my superior. Mhmm. And

17:21

so I think what I need to know

17:24

going into that conversation is

17:26

Is that a is that a hard number that

17:29

you're giving us where if

17:31

we can't match

17:32

it, then you're gonna leave? Or is

17:34

there flexibility there?

17:35

Fifteen percent and it's the hard number.

17:37

Yeah. And Justin, tell me, are there

17:39

other things that we could do

17:42

here that would improve your

17:46

experience, your standing? Are you looking

17:48

for other things that might help you stay

17:50

that aren't just monetary? Because,

17:53

again, like I said, budgets are getting

17:55

tighter and we really value

17:57

you. Wanna keep you around, but wanna

17:59

understand if it's just money

18:02

here or could we talk about

18:04

things like maybe some changing

18:06

benefits or additional time off

18:08

or anything like that?

18:10

That's an interesting question. Chin.

18:12

However, I really I don't think so.

18:15

It's the compensation for

18:16

me. That's that's my motivation at

18:18

this point. Alright. I totally

18:20

appreciate that. I respect that. And

18:23

I'm gonna talk to Bob, and I'm gonna get back to

18:24

you.

18:25

I am cut. Same. Stick

18:28

around. Help one, it will be right

18:30

back.

18:35

Welcome back to health Vonage. Let's get

18:37

to it. Okay,

18:39

Chelsea, why why did you ask

18:41

for fifteen percent? And

18:43

not the full amount that you were getting offered.

18:47

I think because if I was hired

18:49

today at my

18:51

current company, I'm close enough

18:54

to talent and

18:56

HR and compensation where I believe

18:59

that's where the hiring range would

19:01

be. If you think that's where it's gonna end,

19:03

which it may very well end

19:05

that way, my suggestion would

19:08

be to open

19:10

your ass at the offer and

19:12

say that you could be open to

19:15

further

19:15

discussions, but that's the amount

19:17

that you would be leaving for. I like that

19:20

because you wanna create

19:22

a dialogue here. You know

19:24

that you have some wiggle room. And I

19:26

think it's important to know what

19:29

your Leverages in

19:31

any kind of negotiation and also

19:33

what your flexibility is, some of which

19:35

you'll flash, and some of which you won't. And

19:38

by starting out lower,

19:41

you have already bargained yourself down,

19:44

which means that you give them

19:46

no flexibility to bargain with

19:48

you because you said, I'm gonna

19:50

get this amount money over there. I'm gonna

19:53

give you a discount on it. Which means

19:55

that I'm discounting me, but we gotta hold

19:57

at that discount. Right? Because you saw, as soon

19:59

as you gave me that, Bob's instinct is immediately

20:02

to understand what kind of flexibility you have.

20:04

He wants to know what we're dealing with here. Are we dealing

20:06

with someone who's ready to walk out the door

20:08

or someone who's ready to talk? Because

20:10

what Bob knows is

20:12

that there's some more money for you.

20:15

The team is doing very well. You're valued.

20:18

There's some more money. But he doesn't

20:20

wanna give you all of it. And

20:22

he knows that replacing

20:24

you is a pain in the ass, but also switching jobs

20:27

is a pain in the ass. And so

20:29

he thinks that if he can give you

20:31

something, you might stick around and

20:34

there's value to you when just

20:36

sticking around. But you really

20:39

boxed yourself into a corner by

20:41

discounting yourself and then creating a hard

20:43

stop.

20:44

Well, my mind is just blown blown

20:46

at the fact that I didn't even think that way.

20:48

Like, why did I did

20:50

I just assume that I needed to start

20:53

low to stay as if them

20:56

keeping me is

20:58

some type of burden for them? Yes.

21:01

I would have to Yeah. I mean, keeping

21:03

you is certainly not a burden. Losing you

21:05

is a burden. One

21:07

of the great challenges that employers

21:10

have right now is talent

21:12

retention and attracting

21:15

great new talent. So when you're

21:17

ready to walk out the door, the first thing they're

21:19

thinking about is crap. This is

21:21

exactly what we talked about.

21:24

That we have to retain our talent.

21:26

And they they they might have even, you know what, the craziest

21:28

thing for me was the very first time that I

21:30

got an offer to go to another job. I

21:32

was a junior editor at a magazine.

21:35

And I ended up taking it because didn't

21:37

like their counter offer. And then one

21:39

of the senior people came up to me and said,

21:41

you know what, we came up

21:43

with a flight risk list

21:46

at the beginning of the year. The employees that

21:48

we were pretty sure were gonna leave this year

21:50

because we weren't paying them enough. And you were on that

21:52

list. So look at that. Bob

21:54

very well may know you are underpaid considering

21:57

how long you've been there. And that's something like

21:59

this is going to happen. But

22:02

they have an idea of

22:04

what they're willing to pay to keep you

22:06

and it's probably something, but it's not gonna

22:08

be piles of, you know,

22:10

scrooge mcduck cache. So you

22:12

need give them some flexibility so

22:15

that the risk of losing you

22:17

is worth them figuring out how much

22:20

money they can scrounge up for

22:21

you. So remind me, it's eighty five

22:23

to 1351

22:25

twenty five. One twenty five. Okay.

22:28

I tend to think with negotiations, if

22:30

you don't throw out the high number, you'll never

22:32

get there. Oftentimes, career

22:35

financial experts will say that

22:37

that's not the best negotiating tactic.

22:40

I like that because this is a

22:42

pretty large jump. So I would

22:44

say it's starting at one twenty five.

22:46

I you know, I'd love to stay here, you

22:49

know, of course, but I I need to

22:51

follow the money. And so if

22:53

you guys, you know, can

22:55

match or beat, like, I don't know why we're

22:57

going down. Why aren't we going up? I

23:00

think that the direction needs to swim the other

23:03

boop.

23:03

Yeah. Especially if I say, you

23:05

know, hits the money, then shoot

23:07

with it. Wherever it

23:09

is. Great. But I should follow

23:11

that way. That's that's really good at Yeah. Or you can

23:13

just talk about an overall compensation package.

23:15

So you know, Jason Bob

23:18

asked you, what else would

23:20

you want? You would say, you know, I want

23:22

this overall compensation package

23:24

to at least match or beat

23:26

what my competing offer on

23:28

the table is right now. And

23:30

so there's some wiggle room there

23:33

where it's like, okay. Well, we can maybe

23:35

they come back with, hey, we can scoot

23:38

base comp up to, you know, one

23:40

fifteen and then give you, you know,

23:42

x amount more PTO or something

23:45

else that stock options,

23:49

other benefits that create an overall

23:51

comp pack of where you want to be

23:53

at one twenty five? Or, you know,

23:55

is there a path that you

23:58

see to some other

24:00

senior position that maybe you

24:02

guys can chat about that's not

24:04

formal, but a

24:06

path towards something else or or or

24:09

or this is the role that you want forever

24:11

and ever yet. No. I

24:13

mean, not forever and ever. I have a

24:15

certain trajectory to me. It's, you know,

24:17

it's all about the people. I mentioned diversity

24:20

equity and inclusion is massive from

24:22

the company. And like I talked to my boss

24:24

about this during my performance review, you

24:26

know, I basically laid out

24:29

if there was a perfect job for me, this

24:31

would be it. It doesn't yet exist. So

24:33

in the future, I'd like to be more involved

24:35

in projects and initiatives within

24:39

that scope.

24:40

Is now a time to

24:42

throw that into the discussion?

24:44

I don't think so. think it's a little

24:46

early. I've been with the organization just

24:49

two years

24:49

now. And I feel like I'm still

24:51

a newbie. And that by the way is

24:53

gonna also play into the way that

24:55

employers thinking about talent retention

24:58

right now because the

25:00

big conversation is we can't

25:02

all just compete on money alone. Number one, there

25:04

just isn't the budget. But also because you

25:06

know, lot of companies pay well.

25:08

And so what can you actually do to attract

25:10

and retain the greatest talent? And the answer is

25:12

often, not just money, but lifestyle. Which

25:15

is why you're seeing a lot of companies

25:18

experiment. More than they were originally

25:20

comfortable with with work from home stuff

25:22

and perks like unlimited vacation,

25:25

which of course nobody can actually take like

25:27

that, but it sounds really nice. What

25:29

happens Chelsea, if

25:32

you start to think of this conversation

25:34

with Bob as there's nothing

25:37

to lose here. There's nothing to lose

25:39

because on the other side of this

25:41

is a great offer with

25:43

significantly more money and

25:45

a better title. So there's actually

25:48

nothing to lose here. So the

25:50

the idea that we would discount

25:52

you is crazy. But also,

25:54

frankly, the idea that they wouldn't

25:57

right now move you into

25:59

the role that you actually want to be in

26:01

is also crazy to think about because

26:04

You just told me that they wouldn't do it or that you haven't

26:06

been there long enough. And you know what? Maybe that's true.

26:08

But also, who the hell cares? Because

26:10

if they say no, you just have a great place

26:13

to go afterwards. So if

26:15

you start to think of this as simply

26:17

a cannot lose opportunity

26:20

where you either get enough or

26:23

every part of what you want out

26:25

of Bob

26:26

or peace out Bob. It's been great telling

26:28

engineering jokes with you. I'm off to this other

26:30

place.

26:31

That's good too. So true. Chelsea,

26:34

can you lose? Yes or no.

26:36

No. I cannot lose in this scenario. I'm

26:39

very adaptable, so I'm like,

26:40

oh, Don't run into an organization. No

26:42

big deal. I've done it several times before,

26:45

so I'm ready.

26:46

So now, doesn't that doesn't that change the way that

26:48

you approach this? It does. I felt

26:50

like maybe I brought too

26:52

much emotion into it and

26:55

someone even taught their people's emotions

26:57

you know, how is Bob gonna feel? Is he

26:59

going to think on some kind of trader or,

27:02

you know, after he's given me

27:04

x amount of opportunity and

27:06

how are the other leaders gonna feel and

27:08

things like that? But how

27:10

do you feel is the most

27:12

important? Yeah. And I feel freaking

27:14

pumped. To be happy. It's

27:17

not

27:17

always useful and

27:19

and and the offer. I think

27:21

that's great. I mean, I do think that it's worth thinking

27:23

about how Bob feels because then you can

27:26

connect with Bob and try to maximize

27:28

your chances of getting what you want out of Bob.

27:31

But we're not here to protect Bob's

27:33

feelings. And Bob also understands

27:36

that you are both people,

27:38

but you are also in a business

27:40

relationship and people gotta

27:42

talk business. So I think

27:44

it's fine to be

27:47

mindful of that. And even to get

27:49

a little personal, I mean, whenever I'm negotiating

27:51

something, I will often

27:54

explain why the

27:57

amount of money matters to me. I I

27:59

just give you a a quick example, which is

28:01

that I do a lot of speaking. People will pay

28:03

me a speaking fee. And I

28:07

will often be in a situation where they'll try to talk

28:09

me down from my feet. And I

28:11

always say to them, look,

28:13

III totally appreciate, you know, whatever

28:16

budget you're working with, but just so

28:18

you understand when I speak,

28:20

that means that I'm traveling away from my family.

28:22

And the agreement that I have with my wife

28:24

who has to take care of our kids by herself

28:27

when I'm traveling, is that

28:29

it only makes sense for me to

28:31

leave the family if I'm

28:33

earning enough money for it to be meaningful to

28:35

the family. And that's why this number

28:37

matters to me. Now, here I am being personal,

28:40

but I'm also standing firm and

28:42

I'm also giving them a reason why I have

28:45

to stand firm. And that way, it can be

28:47

both business and human, but

28:49

without sacrificing what I ultimately

28:52

am looking

28:52

for.

28:52

Yeah. That's such a good point. I have

28:54

plenty of things like your reference. Alright.

28:57

Let can we do it really quick one more time?

28:59

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Sure. Okay.

29:02

Okay. Deep breathe.

29:05

And

29:06

Okay. Here we go. Hey, Chelsea. How's it going?

29:09

Oh, gosh. You guys

29:11

are people getting on my part and

29:14

action. Hey,

29:15

Chelsea. How's it going?

29:16

Great, mom. How are you doing?

29:18

Oh, I'm doing good. It's another good day at

29:20

the company. Good deal. Good deal.

29:23

Well, we've got all of our

29:26

weekly tasks out of the way? Do you mind

29:28

if I shift gears and you for a little bit?

29:30

Oh,

29:31

sure. Sure. What's up? So I have

29:33

recently been approached by

29:35

a recruiter who has explained

29:39

and offered an opportunity within

29:41

another organization You

29:43

know, how much I love working here. I love

29:46

the people. I love the culture. I

29:48

love my role in general. However,

29:50

this organization is

29:53

offering a hundred and twenty

29:55

thousand dollar base along with

29:57

options and

29:59

a senior executive assistant title.

30:02

Oh. As I you know, like I said,

30:04

I love it here, but I'm I

30:06

would be remiss to dismiss

30:09

this financial opportunity ahead

30:11

of me. So I'm wondering if

30:13

we can have

30:15

a conversation regarding,

30:17

you know, this organization potentially

30:20

matching or beating the

30:22

current

30:23

offer. Otherwise,

30:25

I think I think I will need to take

30:27

it. Well, Chelsea,

30:30

first of all, I appreciate you

30:32

asking that. Because we

30:34

really value you here and we'd love to find a

30:36

way to make it work. And congratulations.

30:38

That's a that's a great offer and and well deserved.

30:41

Do you have any flexibility here?

30:43

Because, of course, budgets are tight.

30:45

We're going into a possible recession. And

30:49

what you're asking for here is is quite

30:51

a large bump from what you

30:53

have now. So are you

30:56

able to go a little

30:56

lower? Can we maybe meet you halfway? There

30:59

may be some wiggle room. However,

31:02

at this point, I don't think I'm willing to negotiate

31:05

halfway down. I guess I would

31:07

appreciate if you could have

31:10

a conversation with whomever you need to

31:12

and and see where we can

31:14

be. I do need to make a

31:16

concrete decision within the next

31:19

forty eight hours.

31:21

Justin, you know, as you're talking to, I'm just

31:23

thinking back to other conversations that we've had

31:26

and about your ambitions working

31:29

here. And we have this other division

31:31

that know you're really excited about

31:33

and and might want the opportunity to

31:36

work in. Would you be interested in something

31:38

like that where you shift over and do little

31:40

more of the work that you're very passionate

31:43

about and and that we've talked

31:44

about, and we would find a

31:46

a salary that works over there?

31:49

I might consider that. I'm not

31:51

sure how quickly you could put something

31:53

together. I know we laid out position

31:56

last week during my performance review that

31:58

is not yet created. But

32:01

like I said, if you could get back to me with

32:04

a plan, with financials

32:06

tied to it at work, then

32:09

I I would probably be open

32:11

to

32:11

that. Mhmm. And

32:13

by work would you be

32:15

willing to take something that, you know, the people

32:17

on that team aren't quite making what you're

32:20

proposing here at at

32:22

a hundred and twenty. So we

32:25

would find something that that is commensurate

32:27

with the work and we would

32:29

set you on a path for in

32:31

future growth here, but

32:33

I don't know that we're exactly gonna be able to

32:35

match what you're asking for right now. Would that would that still be

32:37

okay? Because it certainly would be more in line

32:39

with what you're looking to do here at the company. Unfortunately

32:42

not. The the new

32:45

potential company has that

32:47

space as well, and it's actually

32:49

and it's infancy toddler stage.

32:51

So I would be a part of evolving

32:54

that in

32:56

in that transformation. So that's kinda

32:58

what's what's leading me over

33:00

there as

33:01

well. The dollars would need to be there.

33:03

Okay. Alright. Well, Chelsea, I appreciate

33:05

you bringing it to me. I totally understand

33:07

the position that you're in. You're very valued

33:10

here. And I'm gonna talk

33:12

to Bob, and we'll get back to you shortly.

33:14

Okay. That sounds great. Thanks so much.

33:16

I thought it was great.

33:18

I felt comfortable too. Like, you guys

33:21

you guys have given me the confidence

33:23

needed to walk in and just say,

33:25

here's what it is. And

33:27

hopefully, you can beat it. But if not, then I'm gonna

33:30

go start this transformation

33:32

over

33:32

here. Yeah. Between the first and the second,

33:34

the first time your pitch to

33:36

Bob was basically a very

33:40

slow awkwardness around

33:42

the subject. Which kind

33:44

of dead end concluded with what do

33:46

you think, Bob? Yeah. Which was

33:48

not the way to do it, but this one was

33:51

direct, you knew what you were looking for,

33:53

you were clear and coherent about

33:55

what you have on offer, and the

33:57

value that you can provide to the company,

33:59

you made it clear that you don't want to leave, but

34:01

that you will if you need

34:03

to. And you didn't give Bob

34:06

a whole lot of wiggle room, but

34:09

you were friendly and made it clear that

34:11

a very good offer could keep

34:13

you.

34:14

Yeah. Totally amateur hour previously.

34:16

Right. Yeah. This is great.

34:18

See,

34:18

this is why you guys are healthy and this is

34:21

awesome. I'm so proud. I'm

34:24

so

34:24

proud. Alright. Will

34:26

you call us and tell us how it went? Oh,

34:28

yes. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you guys so

34:30

much. Truly have given me a ton of

34:33

confidence and just motivation

34:36

to know what what I'm worth and what

34:38

I'm capable of and what I can't

34:41

do at this organization I might be able to

34:43

do somewhere else. So I really,

34:45

really appreciate

34:46

it.

34:46

Hell yeah. Go get it.

34:47

First, go get it healthy.

34:50

Help Wanted is a production of money

34:52

news network. Help Wanted is hosted by

34:55

me, Jason Piper. And me, Nicole

34:57

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35:16

Oh, I did sign up for that. Alright. Well,

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