0:00

Prime members, yes you. You

0:02

can listen to Briden and

0:04

Early and ad free on

0:06

Amazon Music. Download the app

0:08

today. Well

0:11

it's nice to have you back.

0:13

I don't care what some people

0:15

say. I like you and

0:18

I like today's guest, Rachel Paris.

0:20

We had a lovely talk about

0:22

all sorts of things. Now in

0:24

no particular order, I

0:26

was able to express to her my failure

0:30

to understand the appeal of the goth.

0:34

She turns out she, and this surprised

0:36

me because you see she was very

0:38

academic at school. She was, I don't

0:41

want to use the phrase a goody two shoes,

0:43

but it was hovering in the air, and

0:46

yet she was drawn to

0:48

goths. And

0:51

then we go on to discuss her

0:53

cut. I won't spoil

0:55

it for you. We talk about

0:57

all sorts. She was here to

0:59

talk about the publication of the

1:02

paperback copy of her book Advice

1:04

from Strangers, which has gone down

1:06

very well indeed and is well

1:08

worth a read. But that's

1:10

me saying it. Why don't you listen to her?

1:13

This is Briden and Rachel

1:16

Paris. I'm

1:25

going to keep looking straight into the camera

1:27

as I currently am. Just do that. Okay,

1:31

we're rolling. All right. Oh,

1:34

is that your bottom? Oh,

1:38

that's quite a sharp

1:40

one. I thought it was a floorboard. I

1:43

love it. We're talking about flatulence

1:45

and we're here in

1:47

the Voxpod studio

1:49

rather than at home

1:51

because if you're going

1:53

to talk to Rachel Paris, you don't want to

1:56

do it over zoom. You

1:58

want to get some of that. Some

2:00

of that Paris magic. Everybody

2:04

loves Paris and for some of them

2:06

it's the city, but for a lot of them it's

2:09

Rachel Paris. I bet you'll find

2:11

some people who don't like Paris the city but

2:13

do love Rachel and

2:15

if you're one of those people

2:17

then this is the podcast for

2:19

you because look who's sitting there.

2:22

Oh she's come round to my camera, that's nice.

2:24

You could have worked with that one or that

2:26

one. I know but I thought I'd come round to... Oh yeah that's easier.

2:31

I feel overexposed. It's

2:33

lovely to have you, thank you. I'm

2:35

going to go straight to this

2:38

book which is a very interesting

2:40

book and at an interesting phase

2:42

of its delivery because you...

2:45

and I remember this, I wrote an

2:47

autobiography and I saw you telling Chris

2:49

Evans saying you thought you couldn't write

2:51

an autobiography because you hadn't lived long

2:53

enough because I'm older than you.

2:55

I had no such qualms. I

2:58

saw the advance and I said yes, I've

3:01

lived enough. Your

3:03

book now is advice

3:05

from strangers and it's now out in

3:08

paperback. That's right, yeah. When it came

3:10

out in hardback I

3:12

did a few interviews about it but I feel like

3:14

I didn't get to push it as much as I'd

3:16

wanted and to be perfectly

3:19

honest I haven't sold as many copies as I

3:21

want to so now it's out in paperback. It's

3:23

a good chance to remind people to

3:26

buy the book please and to talk about it.

3:28

I love that honesty. I love this

3:30

away. Well, in hardback it didn't sell as

3:33

many as I was hoping it would. What's

3:35

the best way of phrasing this? It

3:38

didn't sell away. The paperbacks are

3:40

far more agreeable books. Discuss.

3:43

They're easier to read in bed.

3:47

They're easier to carry around with you on the

3:49

tube. They fit in a bag better. That's

3:54

probably it. I think you can have

3:56

a greater emotional attachment to a

3:58

paperback. Interesting. because it

4:01

bends as the best humans

4:03

do. It gets thumbed as the best

4:05

humans do. Yeah. True.

4:08

That doesn't need to be smutty. That could

4:10

be, that could be, they could

4:12

be thumbed. And as

4:14

much as we try out different humans, we

4:16

thumb through them. Yeah. It

4:19

doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be, but it could be. It

4:21

could. If this was late night, Rob,

4:24

then certainly we'd be looking at the

4:26

thumbs in another way.

4:32

I think it's a good

4:37

idea. Describe the book, by which I don't mean

4:39

physically, I don't want some of your modern satire.

4:42

Well, it's, it's about this many pages, Robin. It's

4:44

about, you know, that's not what I want. Thank

4:46

you for taking an impression off me, then. I

4:48

want, I want it spot on. It was if

4:50

you're in the room again. Yes. Describe

4:53

the book for us. The book

4:56

is a mixture

4:58

of things. And I'm sorry to say that

5:00

that's vague, but it is. My publishers would

5:02

be much happier if it was one thing.

5:06

But one thing is, is it takes a

5:08

collection of pieces of real

5:10

advice that I really received from strangers.

5:13

But it's also my opinions

5:16

and thoughts and experiences written

5:18

down in a funny or really cross

5:24

or surreal way. Some

5:27

chapters are a poem. Some chapters

5:29

are a bit of I am

5:31

bit pentameter about fear. Some

5:33

of them are a description of a period in

5:35

my life and some of them are my political

5:37

opinions. So it really is like hard

5:40

to describe. But I think that means

5:42

it's really nice to read. And

5:45

I was very honest with Rachel before we started.

5:47

I said, look, I haven't

5:49

read the book. I respect

5:51

it. And I hoped you would

5:54

respect it because there's nothing worse

5:56

than somebody trying to bluff

5:58

their way. to

6:01

read everybody's, but you must get

6:03

sent books. Friends are

6:05

publishing and maybe they want to quote for the cover or

6:07

they just send it to you. And

6:09

I'm rather offended when I get sent

6:12

a book because it's a bit like

6:14

a sentence, isn't it? It's a bit, well

6:17

this is gonna take me forever to

6:19

read this. And I've

6:21

had a few sent to me and

6:23

they've asked, or could they publish this lovely of

6:25

a quote? And I've

6:28

just forgotten all about the book.

6:30

I started reading a bit and I might even enjoy

6:32

it. But then life moves

6:34

on. That doesn't mean you can think of

6:36

a nicely formed quote for it necessarily, does

6:38

it? Well I said this, there was one book

6:40

and I offered up, let's

6:43

say the person was called John, he

6:45

wasn't, but this is the book John's

6:47

publishers have been waiting for. That was

6:49

really nice. Yeah,

6:51

but I was telling, I was talking

6:53

to someone about, was it Ben Elton? I was saying

6:55

this because he was telling me he gets asked a

6:57

lot to give quotes for books.

7:00

And I said, I was quite pleased with

7:02

that. And he said, yeah, he said, that

7:04

is a joke though, you know, and it

7:06

is ha ha ha. But

7:08

really what people want is, oh this,

7:11

I couldn't put it down. Incredible.

7:13

I quite wanted jokes. Did you? Because

7:16

I got a lot of like warm, witty and

7:18

wise, wise and hilarious. Wise, witty and warm. Warm

7:20

and wise and wise and hilarious and warm. But

7:23

actually a joke would have been quite nice. Nish

7:25

Kumar did me quite a nice joke, but they

7:27

used the serious bit before. Is that

7:29

right? Yeah. My favourite book quote that I ever

7:31

read, and actually can't remember who said it, but

7:33

it was for, do you

7:37

remember that book? It came out about 15

7:39

years ago and it was someone writing spoof

7:41

angry letters to companies. Oh, it was

7:43

what's his name? The character was Robin

7:45

Cooper. Yes, Robin Cooper. And it's Robert Popper.

7:48

Yes, exactly. And I can't remember who, but

7:50

they got a quote from someone that said,

7:52

you'll laugh so hard, you'll hurt yourself and

7:54

others. That was my favourite book quote.

7:56

I like that. So how did it start then?

7:58

What gave you the idea? to do it. Basically,

8:04

the publishers came

8:06

to me and said, they came out of nowhere.

8:08

So you're going

8:10

around your normal Rachel Paris

8:12

life. Had the MASH report,

8:14

had you come to our

8:16

attention with that? Yes, I'd come

8:18

to the public attention, I suppose, with the

8:20

MASH report. It was still the MASH

8:22

report then, just about, and been on a

8:25

few programmes enough

8:29

to have a bit of public attention.

8:32

So enough for publishers

8:34

to come and say, if

8:38

we were to offer you a book... I'm not

8:40

saying we're going to, but if we were...

8:42

If we were, have you got any

8:44

ideas for what you might write? We're

8:46

not definitely offering you, but we're just saying that if

8:48

we did. If we did. And what did you say?

8:52

They had an idea about

8:54

musical choices, because I'm

8:56

into music, but

9:00

I didn't love that as much. And I said

9:02

to them, I had a think, I went away

9:04

and thought about it, and I realised that I

9:06

had this shoebox full of little pieces of paper

9:09

with people's advice on. So I'd kept, going

9:13

back a year earlier, I'd been on

9:15

tour for a year. And as

9:18

part of the tour, I'd given out pieces of paper to

9:20

the audience and asked them to write down bits of advice.

9:22

What a great idea. And I'd woven them into

9:24

the show at the time, but I'd kept all my

9:26

favourite ones, because I thought, well these are special, aren't they?

9:29

So when it came to an idea for

9:31

a book, I was like, well, this feels

9:33

like there's something in this, isn't there? In

9:35

the shoebox is the key to a book.

9:38

So that's what I did. So each chapter is a real

9:40

piece of advice. And then I used that just as a

9:42

leaping off point to talk about that subject. But you

9:45

sometimes rail against the

9:47

advice, because we talked

9:50

earlier before we started.

9:53

And then we talked a little bit while we were talking. I

9:55

said, I hadn't read the book. And you said, when

9:58

you're doing promos. stuff. You

10:00

know, sometimes people pretend they've read

10:03

the book, and you don't have to say

10:05

who this was. But you did have a

10:07

funny experience with one interviewer. Yeah. Well, explain

10:09

that. That was a fun story. Well, there

10:11

are bits of advice that I, as you

10:14

say, rail against ranging from what's

10:16

for you won't pass you, which is...

10:19

What's for you won't pass you. So

10:21

in other words, if it's

10:23

meant to be for you, it will happen

10:25

to you. Yeah. Like basically,

10:27

like don't worry about it. If

10:29

something really awful happens, it was

10:31

meant to. And

10:35

I found this like, not hugely

10:37

helpful. It's a thing that people say when

10:40

tragedy strikes as

10:42

a comfort, and it's not a comfort at

10:44

all. So I talked about a

10:47

very sad happening in my

10:49

life in that chapter. And

10:53

the interviewer was like, I absolutely

10:55

love your chapter. What's for you

10:57

won't pass you. It's just so

10:59

great, Rachel, isn't it? So

11:01

great is an expression. Because they've just seen that

11:03

title of the... I assumed you were taking

11:05

it at Facebook. Yeah. Yeah. And

11:08

I've got a chapter called Be Kind, which was

11:10

the advice that was written down. And obviously,

11:12

as I say in the book, I do

11:15

agree with being kind. Of course, I'm not

11:17

a monster. And kindness in general is a

11:19

default. But what

11:21

I railed against was the emptiness

11:25

of like hashtag Be Kind Online, the

11:27

online movement of Be Kind. Because I

11:30

think that it has nothing behind it.

11:32

And it's not specific enough to be

11:34

of any use. Because kindness means

11:37

one thing to one person, one thing to another. So

11:40

saying Be Kind doesn't actually drive you into

11:42

any particular course of action. So,

11:47

you know, just taking a big political idea

11:49

of that, like in terms of, say, immigration,

11:52

I genuinely think that

11:54

people who are very fearful of

11:56

immigrants think that they're sort of

11:59

being kind. to their country. They think

12:01

they're being kind to their fellow countrymen and

12:03

kinder to the people they're

12:05

loyal to. And we feel that we're being

12:07

kinder to immigrants. And I do think that

12:10

everyone thinks they're being kind, and it's a

12:12

bit useless unless you're specific. Well,

12:14

I mean, we're not known

12:16

for our political analysis on this podcast.

12:19

But it's an interesting point. You

12:21

say that people perhaps were fearful of

12:24

immigrants, feel

12:26

they're being kind to their country. Because

12:29

I'm always, I

12:31

always raise a right eyebrow. If you're

12:33

ever in America or Australia, you get

12:35

the chance to watch on one channel,

12:37

CNN, and the right in the next

12:39

one was Fox News. So you can

12:41

just go back between the two. And

12:43

sometimes they'll be talking about the same

12:45

subject. And obviously,

12:48

they're as far apart. And

12:50

I think it's important not to

12:54

demonize or I think it's very

12:56

important to try and understand how

12:59

somebody can have such

13:01

an extremely different view

13:03

and feel that that they

13:07

are, I don't know what I'm trying to

13:09

say here. This is what you know, I said, we're

13:11

not known for our political analysis. And now we can

13:13

see why. Why? Yeah, because if I try it, I

13:16

tie myself up in knots. I

13:18

think I know what you're saying. What

13:20

was I trying to say, Rachel? I think you were trying

13:23

to say that it's not

13:25

helpful to just go, you're

13:28

definitely wrong. And be

13:30

just angry without trying to understand the

13:33

other side of things. They're doing the

13:35

right thing. Exactly. Yeah. We have to

13:37

assume that the vast majority of someone

13:39

with a diametrically

13:42

opposed view to one's own is

13:45

not twiddling their must-askering. Yeah.

13:48

Soon. I think they

13:50

think that they are

13:53

doing the right thing.

13:56

And of course, you just need dialogue, though.

14:01

So you had all

14:03

these bits of advice that had come

14:05

to you from different audience

14:07

members. Do you have a favourite one? In

14:11

terms of the actual bits of advice themselves,

14:13

rather than my chapter on it, I really

14:15

like one that says something

14:17

like, always consume macaron

14:20

within 24 hours, lest they turn to dust.

14:24

I thought that was nice. Beautifully

14:26

phrased. I thought it was nice. I think it was phrased

14:28

nicer than I said it. So I, in that chapter,

14:31

just went off on a description of who

14:33

I thought wrote that. I've

14:38

got a chapter about fear. The

14:40

advice that was written down was the only thing to fear

14:42

is fear itself, the famous phrase.

14:46

I talked about

14:49

the nature of fear and I end

14:51

up doing, I've written a sort of

14:53

Shakespearean first-law call in the style of Henry

14:56

V. So I like that

14:58

one because it's very different to the other chapters.

15:02

But my number one favourite

15:05

is the third

15:08

bit, if you like, of what's for you, won't

15:10

pass you. And I wrote it

15:13

shortly after my son was born. And

15:16

it's just a description of Billy.

15:19

It's a description of all the things that I

15:21

felt when he was a newborn and having him

15:24

and just what he means to me. So it's

15:27

just a really loving, in the moment,

15:29

chapter about early motherhood. You

15:32

mentioned music and you're

15:34

very good at that. You

15:37

went to, I wrote this

15:39

down, second class, upper

15:41

second class music bachelor of

15:43

arts at Oxford. I mean,

15:45

that's... Someone

15:48

like me with five O levels. That's

15:50

very impressive. Oh, thanks. Well,

15:52

yeah. Yeah. You

15:54

know how once your Wikipedia page starts,

15:56

you can't choose what goes on. it

16:00

to me for all I know that it is true. It

16:02

is true, right. You sort of, it's

16:05

just funny how they phrase it. But you've

16:07

got according to this, you've

16:09

got an upper second class to

16:11

one. I don't really understand degrees,

16:14

but that sounds good to me.

16:16

Music BA from St Hilda's College,

16:18

not a great name, Oxford, Queens

16:21

would be better. And

16:23

a master's degree from Central,

16:26

the Central School of Speech and

16:28

Language for acting. Yeah. Although you're

16:31

doing pretty high achieving straight

16:34

off the bat. Yeah, yeah,

16:36

I suppose I was, I was

16:38

a high achiever. We academically at

16:40

school. I was. Yeah, I

16:42

know. And it's unusual for comedians to be,

16:44

I think. Yeah, yeah. A bit

16:48

of a dropout kind of like

16:50

Marcus. Well, the

16:52

biggest thing about we're talking about Marcus

16:54

Bridgetock, who is Rachel's husband, that

16:57

I can never think of Marcus without thinking about when

16:59

he came on Would I Lie To You? And

17:01

one of the stories he said, I was

17:04

a podium dancer. And I think everybody thought

17:06

this is not true. And it was true.

17:08

And Marcus has a backstory

17:10

quite different to what you

17:12

might expect when you look

17:14

at him. It's true. I mean, you look at him,

17:16

you think male model. But I mean, it's

17:19

true though, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Like he was,

17:21

he was a very naughty school boy.

17:23

He got, he just, the school he

17:26

was sent to didn't work for him

17:28

at all. And he rebelled and he

17:30

didn't get on well with them. And

17:32

so he, he kept getting

17:34

expelled. He ended up in a sort

17:36

of ball stall type school really, then

17:39

became a very young alcoholic.

17:42

And like a lot happened to

17:44

him very young. You say young alcoholic

17:46

with a little chuckle. Yeah. And you

17:48

almost make it sound appealing. He was

17:50

one of those young alcoholics. Young alcoholics.

17:52

Charming. Did he drink at all now?

17:54

Or he's one of those alcoholics that's

17:56

proper alcoholic. They've stopped. They've stopped.

17:58

Yeah, yeah. Good for him. like an

18:00

adult alcoholic. Like a proper one, a grown up,

18:02

yes. A matured alcoholic. So we

18:05

couldn't be more different. Like Marcus was

18:07

not a fan of school. I

18:09

was, I was a fan of school. You

18:11

liked school. I enjoyed the work. Yeah, well,

18:14

I just, I went even in like primary

18:16

school. So like, I don't come from a

18:18

background of like a family that

18:21

would have put me to private school or

18:23

anything like that. But I did well

18:25

enough at primary school that the headmaster talked

18:27

to my parents and talked about a scholarship

18:29

that was possible to like the local private

18:31

school. So I got a scholarship to private

18:33

school. And I just,

18:35

I really just enjoyed it. I liked

18:37

the work. I like exams. My wife

18:40

loved school. Yeah. Went

18:43

off to Oxbridge, but just

18:46

liked school. Yeah. Liked

18:48

learning. I mean, she still

18:50

got a lot of her school books and you look at them and

18:52

you go, oh my God, look at this. Beautifully

18:55

neat, lengthy, smart.

18:59

And while I was not a

19:02

young alcoholic, I was into drama and

19:04

acting and everything, but yeah, not academic.

19:06

So if you'd known Marcus, what's the

19:08

age thing with you and Marcus? 10

19:10

years. 10 years, right, nine with me.

19:13

So if you'd known Marcus, let's

19:15

say you'd been contemporaries, would

19:18

I be right? If you'd been at the same

19:20

school, would you have gone, oh my God, that

19:22

guy, I mean, that's

19:24

not funny. What would you have

19:26

been drawn to the bad boy? No, I think God had been

19:29

drawn to him. Would you? Yeah, yeah. I

19:31

think. Would you? Well, I

19:33

think he'd still have had the personality he's

19:35

got. So he would have been funny and

19:37

confident and I think kind

19:39

of, and he was a goth at the school. Yeah,

19:42

but you can't find goths attractive. Come

19:45

on. I think sort of a bit goth tendency. One

19:47

of my close friends was a goth and I think quite

19:50

a few of my friends were goth. What is, what do you, what do

19:52

you, I don't understand. The

19:55

goth thing. I think it's

19:57

mainly a style and

19:59

culture. like the music you

20:01

listen to and the clothes you wear.

20:03

Visually it makes you look like you're close to death.

20:07

I mean I spend my life trying to

20:09

look more alive, trying to look

20:12

healthier. If I look in

20:14

the mirror and I see I've just been

20:16

touring and if you look and you've got these

20:18

shadows and you're like oh what's wrong with me?

20:20

Oh I want to look healthy and I always

20:22

think of goth is going

20:24

what can I do to

20:26

make myself look cadaverous? Peaky.

20:28

Peaky? What words are peaky?

20:31

I've honestly never understood it.

20:33

So Marcus was the full goth? Yeah

20:36

I think he was, oh I don't know if he

20:38

was full goth but he was very

20:40

much a fan of like Robert

20:42

Smith and everything so he

20:44

was into that style. I think I don't know how long for but

20:47

he was into it but I think he'd grown out of it by

20:49

the time he was like 18, 19 or something. But

20:52

yeah I think I would have probably fancied him if

20:55

we were at the same school. But who were

20:57

you going out with at that time? Were you

20:59

going out with the head boy or the head

21:01

of the rowing team? No I was I

21:03

was going out with, in sixth

21:06

form I was going out with a guy called Chris who

21:09

was really nice and quite

21:11

a stoner. Sounds like you're

21:13

thinking of his, he was what? Quite

21:15

a stoner. So you were this

21:17

highly achieving academic girl

21:19

loving school with an eye for the

21:21

goth and frankly I'm going to use

21:23

the word the druggies. Yeah

21:26

dare we say it the young

21:28

alcoholic? The more I say young

21:31

alcoholic it sounds like quite a

21:33

cool band. But

21:36

John Peel would have chatted back in

21:38

the day. He

21:42

was like 18, 19 or

21:44

something. But yeah I think I would

21:46

have probably fancied him if we were at the same school.

21:48

But who were you going out with at that time?

21:50

Were you going out with the head boy or the

21:52

head of the rowing team? No I was

21:56

going out with, in sixth form I was going

21:58

out with a guy called Chris. who

22:01

was really nice and quite

22:03

a stoner. Sounds

22:05

like you were thinking of his, he was what? Quite

22:07

a stoner. So you were

22:09

this highly achieving academic

22:11

girl loving school with an eye for

22:13

the goth and frankly I'm going to

22:15

use the word the druggies. Yeah,

22:18

dare we say it, the

22:20

young alcoholic. The

22:23

more I say young alcoholic it sounds like quite a cool

22:25

band. But

22:28

John Peel would have chapped back in

22:30

the day. See

22:39

I would have been at school with you and I

22:42

would have, what would you have been teaching me Rob?

22:44

No, I would have been at school with you and

22:46

I would have seen you and thought oh she's nice and

22:49

you would have wanted nothing to do with me. Too

22:52

good. I was quite a

22:54

nice chap, a goody person, never smoked,

22:56

didn't drink till I was 35. And

22:59

I would have said why doesn't she,

23:01

what's she doing with that guy? Why doesn't she

23:03

do the guy with the eyeliner and the black

23:05

t-shirt? Well I don't know. I

23:08

think that thing about types is

23:10

rarely true. When I think about the relationships

23:12

I've had, the long proper relationships I've had

23:14

in my life before Marcus, they couldn't

23:16

be more different from that with a really

23:19

really nice boy who's

23:21

an environmentalist and just

23:23

absolutely lovely. And

23:27

I've sort of fancied and been infatuated by

23:29

a guy who's like more

23:31

cold as ice kind of guy.

23:34

And like really

23:37

different both personality and looks and everything.

23:39

So I don't

23:42

think I had a type when I was a teenager.

23:45

I mean I was also at a girl's school so I

23:47

was very keen to go out with anyone to be

23:49

honest. So

23:51

how did you meet Marcus then? How did that happen?

23:54

Through improv. Oh yeah, I

23:56

think I've heard you talk about this but tell us.

23:59

So we had a few... mutual friends

24:01

sort of because of improv. And

24:04

then we worked together, he worked with

24:06

a lot of my friends, close friends

24:09

in an Edinburgh show called Unavailable

24:11

for Comment. Which friends are those? Would I

24:13

know those? Do you know Amy Cook Hodgson,

24:15

Andrew Hunter Murray? I know the names. They're

24:18

all like improvisers in performing

24:20

types. And I was

24:23

never in that show, but I knew him

24:26

then. So that was about 2015, no

24:28

2014. This

24:31

is all pretty recent then. Yeah. And

24:33

then 2015, we started doing

24:35

a show together

24:37

with Deborah Francis White, which

24:40

was me and

24:43

Pippa Evans and him and

24:45

Tom Tuck and others.

24:47

And it was an improvised show

24:49

that we did in Edinburgh and at

24:51

festivals and everything. And that's how we really

24:53

got to know each other well. But it

24:56

wasn't until that's when we became friends. And then

24:58

we only got together at the start of

25:00

2018. Right.

25:03

Okay. And I saw

25:05

a clip of you again, talking to Chris

25:07

Evans on Virgin, talking

25:10

about what you described

25:12

as a nervous breakdown. Because

25:15

you saying 2015 there, that's very recent.

25:18

It has all happened. I'm

25:20

sat here with you now, sort of feel, I

25:22

think once somebody's in the public eye, you can

25:24

sort of feel like they've been around for a

25:27

lot longer than they have. But you had your

25:30

life changed massively

25:32

and quickly, wouldn't it?

25:34

Yeah. Yeah. All in that year. So

25:36

from the start of 2018, the start of 2018, right to the

25:43

start of 2019 was a

25:45

year in which the small

25:47

show that I'd auditioned for

25:49

the mass reward went from

25:52

being a very, an idea,

25:54

the Apple in a producer's eye, to it was never

26:00

huge but the bits I'd done on it

26:02

went very viral. They did, they

26:04

went massively viral. Hugely viral and

26:06

it got me a lot of attention from nothing,

26:09

from not being known at all to sort of worldwide

26:11

attention for a while for a few months and

26:14

that happened in the same two

26:16

months that I got together with Marcus and then

26:19

very shortly after that moved in with him and

26:21

had two step kids and

26:26

interestingly talking to you about it so you

26:29

know that was within

26:31

those few months suddenly with that

26:33

attention I was offered, mock the week, would

26:35

I lie to you, QI, live at the

26:37

Apollo with no experience of TV

26:39

really before that so I was going on

26:41

all those shows in quick succession going.

26:45

Normally you know one would

26:48

build up to those, you'd get a bit,

26:50

you'd get one of them and then some

26:52

months to go buy and hopefully you get

26:54

boss back but yeah so your life changed

26:57

massively and you found it

26:59

very destabilizing? Yeah I did I

27:02

think I was basically for that year just

27:04

running on adrenaline for like a year and

27:06

then yeah I had a massive crash, my

27:08

first in my life really, the most

27:12

kind of, I've been

27:14

low before but I've

27:16

never had this very physical like

27:18

what it was massive panic attack basically the biggest

27:20

I've ever had and then it

27:23

carried on for weeks and weeks so

27:25

that happened exactly a year later so

27:27

the 6th of January

27:29

2019 it was the day

27:31

that like the Christmas, you

27:33

know the family celebration. You'd

27:36

had the Christmas and everybody then had

27:38

gone, yeah well that's understandable

27:40

isn't it I mean it's like when you get

27:42

a cold at the end of a tour exactly

27:44

or the end of a run in the theatre

27:47

and you've just kept going or

27:49

a kid gets it at the end of the

27:51

term or something you know but

27:55

so what's your panic attacks which

27:57

are horrible horrible things. But

28:00

you would describe it as a full on nervous

28:03

breakdown. Was that debilitating? It

28:05

was, yeah, because I occasionally

28:08

have panic attacks now occasionally

28:11

and they happen and then they

28:13

stop and I carry on with my life. But

28:16

in that period of time, it was,

28:19

it took so the first time it

28:21

happened, for one thing, I'd never had

28:23

one before. So that sort

28:25

of lasted all day. And

28:27

then I woke up to a panic attack. What

28:29

is this, a heart racing? I mean, we

28:31

don't want to dwell on it. I don't

28:33

want to. Well, no, it's interesting because it's

28:35

interesting. I think if people have never had

28:37

one to know what it can mean. I don't

28:39

think I've. You'd probably know if you had. I

28:41

don't think I've had one. For me, it

28:44

was, it began as a really

28:47

weird, like going mad feeling. And I felt

28:49

like I couldn't be in the room and

28:51

I suddenly got up off the sofa and

28:54

walked out into the street and

28:56

felt the same. And I

28:59

came in at this point, my heart was going like the

29:01

clappers and I woke up Marcus

29:03

was napping in the chair and I woke up and

29:05

I said, something's wrong. And

29:08

then he said, I am having

29:10

sleep. Don't

29:13

bother me. And

29:16

then I got it or

29:19

nausea, diarrhea, just crying.

29:23

But like at one point, like

29:25

on all fours, just like retching, crying,

29:28

just really terrible. It was I

29:30

thought I was going to die. That's what it was. So

29:33

it was very bad. And sort of

29:35

I went to the doctor. He gave me some

29:37

beta blockers, which are great

29:39

for stopping it, reaching that point. But

29:42

like that happened. But then

29:45

your chemicals are all over the place in your

29:47

body. So I started

29:49

getting losing weight. I couldn't eat because it made

29:51

me feel sick. So you'd make me feel sick.

29:54

It wasn't a great time. So I

29:56

describe it as another breakdown. I don't know. I

29:58

would say it sounds like a no. Yeah.

30:01

And it went on for, that

30:06

day was the worst, but then I'd wake up to like panic

30:08

attack. Every day I woke up, I'd feel like I was having

30:10

a panic attack. So I really was out

30:12

of control. And then

30:14

I just slowly got better, as

30:16

I believe for some people is

30:19

very possible. Is there therapy? Did you talk to somebody?

30:21

Yeah, I got therapy.

30:23

I found ways to get food

30:25

in my body, which is so

30:28

important because obviously that's a slippery

30:30

slope. And

30:33

yeah, therapy and just got

30:35

lots of help from friends. Were you

30:37

able to perform? Weirdly,

30:39

yes. That was

30:41

interesting. Like I've never

30:44

felt so keenly that I'm in the

30:46

right job that I went

30:48

even when I was not really better yet,

30:50

I had gigs in the diary and I

30:52

was thinking, I wonder how that's going to

30:54

be because the littlest things would tip me

30:57

into panic. Honestly, I had a

30:59

little bit of worry backstage. And then the second

31:01

I was on the stage, it's

31:03

absolutely fine. Well, that's interesting. Very calming,

31:05

actually. Very interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Maybe

31:08

it closes down some part of the brain, opens up

31:10

another part of the brain. Yeah, I think

31:12

so. I suppose it's my comfort space

31:14

almost. Well, the one thing about

31:17

when you're on stage is that it's

31:19

very safe. It's very

31:21

contained. There are very clear

31:24

boundaries and you know

31:26

what the show is. It's all

31:29

very controllable, isn't it? I

31:31

wonder if that's a good thing in

31:34

that situation. I think so. You know

31:37

Barry Humphries. I heard him talking

31:39

about coming on as Dame Edna

31:41

and describing

31:44

how the busyness in his head and then

31:46

he'd put the outfit on and he'd come

31:49

out through the curtains and he was alone.

31:51

And the audience was there, but he said

31:53

he felt alone and he felt at ease.

31:56

I thought that was really interesting because you're sort of

31:58

alone and it can be nice. Yeah,

32:01

it's all very, I think in a show,

32:03

even from the minute you get into the

32:05

dressing room, if you're doing a play,

32:07

I think that feeling kind

32:09

of starts the minute you're in the dressing room,

32:11

you're in a sort of safe space before

32:14

you go on. Who were your,

32:16

when, how old are you? Thirty-eight.

32:21

So what are your influences then? Who were

32:23

you watching on the television? And were you,

32:25

when you were watching them, thinking that's what

32:27

I want to do? I

32:31

was watching, I grew up

32:33

watching Victoria Wood, inevitably. Oh

32:35

well, of course, yeah. So that's

32:37

a big influence then. Huge influence, huge influence.

32:40

But no, I didn't know it at the time. I

32:42

knew of her, but I didn't think anyone else could do that

32:44

as a job, if you know what I mean. So

32:46

what were you thinking of doing? I don't know, like the

32:49

future or something. You were one of those girls that was

32:51

really good at school, getting great exam things, and then what

32:53

are you going to do? I don't know. Which

32:56

I think is hard to understand if I

32:58

always knew, a lot of performers, I think, that's

33:01

what they wanted to do from a young

33:03

age. So I'm always surprised. No, that's a class thing.

33:05

That's a class thing. Is it? Where

33:07

do you come from? Wales. Yeah.

33:11

It's all but. Like now, I'm

33:13

in touch with a lot

33:15

of families and people who, if

33:19

your parents are performers, if you've got friends of

33:21

the family who are performers, then you

33:23

have grown up in a

33:26

way that performing. Oh, my

33:28

parents weren't performers. My mother

33:30

was a trapeze artist and my father was a

33:32

clout. Oh my God. I'm

33:34

joking. That's one of my

33:36

jokes. No, no,

33:38

they weren't performers. But

33:41

I come from an area, I come from the

33:43

same place as Richard Burton and Anthony Hopkins. And

33:45

as silly as that sounds, it

33:47

did make you realize. So

33:50

it was in the air. But

33:52

it was, oh, yeah, the two were the

33:54

biggest, when Burton in his day, was the

33:56

biggest star in the world with Elizabeth Taylor.

34:00

I do think and they're from literally

34:02

just my father. I do think that would help. Yeah.

34:05

My father grew up in the same street as Anthony Hopkins in

34:07

Margam in South Wales. So you have that,

34:10

you know, yeah, these are real people that walk

34:12

around and they went off and they did that.

34:15

I felt the way I was brought

34:17

up, I felt like we

34:20

just didn't know anyone at all

34:22

who would ever have been a performer. Oh, wow.

34:24

So it never felt like a thing you could possibly do.

34:27

Everybody had some connection to Richard Burton. Everybody.

34:29

And then further afield to Tom Jones, who

34:32

was from Pont de Pries. But

34:34

everybody had, oh, yes. Well, you know,

34:36

I mean, I, you

34:39

know, the school play with Richard Burton and stuff like

34:41

that. Did you do the school productions? Yeah. Yeah.

34:44

Big time. Okay. Were

34:47

you good? Were they all Rachel's very good at this? Yeah.

34:49

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, they were like I

34:51

got they auditioned for them and I got into

34:53

them. Yeah. Enough to, I

34:56

suppose, say that I was good in them. But

34:59

I loved Victoria Wood, Reza Mortimer. Yeah.

35:02

Who I never thought I'm going to do that.

35:05

No, you were. No. But

35:07

I loved them. And people like Pont and

35:10

Dennis. It was all double acts then, wasn't it? It

35:12

was all double acts. Pont and Dennis

35:14

and then later, Lee and Herring and

35:17

French and Saunders. But

35:19

you weren't then watching them and

35:21

studying them. No. No. Which

35:24

a lot of performers do. I was just enjoying

35:26

them. Me and my brother would watch them and just

35:28

how. So then so how did

35:31

it happen then that you find yourself getting up on

35:33

a stage and entertaining people? Well,

35:35

I knew that I enjoyed performing. I was doing school

35:37

plays and stuff like that. So I know I enjoyed

35:39

performing. I got into music before

35:42

anything else. So then

35:44

I suppose I know I

35:46

wanted to try acting. Comedy basically came

35:48

much later. There's not comedy I never

35:50

thought of until

35:53

much later. I'd done music. I'd done

35:56

tried to do acting. Acting

35:59

never really worked. worked for me. I didn't

36:01

get many auditions, I didn't get many charges. I got into that.

36:05

They turned me down. Did they? Yes.

36:08

What did you apply to do? Just because I

36:10

got turned down by Central as well. They

36:12

let me on a different course. Oh, you went in,

36:14

what did you do then? I did acting for screen,

36:17

but they turned me down for classical acting, which

36:19

is what I applied to. I think in

36:21

my day they just called it acting. I

36:23

don't think they were acting with pauses, acting

36:25

with big gestures. Acting with

36:27

props. I applied for the overacting. I

36:29

thought I'd be very good at. But

36:34

you got in though. Yeah,

36:36

I got in. I moved to

36:39

London eventually and just did

36:41

admin jobs and I was piano teaching and

36:44

then I was doing comedy. Eventually I got into

36:46

improv. That was the way in. Right. I

36:48

got into improv first. Well, I did improv with

36:51

Julia Davis. That's where I met Julia Davis. Oh,

36:53

I love Julia. Yeah, in Bath and

36:55

Bristol. Were you in a bigger

36:57

group or was it just two of you? Oh, a bigger

36:59

group. Yeah. Yeah. And that's how I met her,

37:02

was doing that. I

37:04

loved improv. Especially

37:06

in those days, before you've got a

37:09

career going, but you

37:11

have this desire to perform

37:14

but you can't get arrested. You can't

37:16

cast directors to see you. You can't

37:18

get an agent. But you're in this

37:20

group and you're making audiences

37:22

laugh and you're thinking, well, maybe.

37:26

That was it. That was exactly the same. I didn't have

37:28

an agent. I didn't know how to get

37:32

into performing. It seems

37:34

like another planet, doesn't it? Yeah.

37:36

I remember watching the British Comedy

37:38

Awards when Steve was winning and

37:40

Carolina Hearn in those days. And

37:42

it looked like another planet with

37:45

a different... I looked and I

37:48

just thought, I don't see how.

37:50

How could you get in through

37:52

that glass barrier

37:55

into that world? Yeah.

37:57

And then all of a sudden, you're in it. And

38:00

you go, oh, yeah. But

38:03

so what was it then that got you through

38:05

that glass barrier? And suddenly you went, oh, I'm

38:07

in this world. I was I

38:09

was doing an improv show in

38:11

London called Scenes from Communal Living

38:13

and having a lovely time and

38:16

working on the side. And a few of

38:18

them in that, a few of the cast

38:20

members of fellow improvisers were doing solo comedy.

38:22

One of them was, do you know Rob

38:24

Roderick? He does Abandon Man. He

38:26

does Improvise. I don't know. It is a solo act

38:28

at the point. Carly Smallman, Ben Vanderbilt.

38:30

And they were doing a bit of sound. Yes,

38:33

I've seen Carly was on one of my shows,

38:35

I think. Oh, great. Yeah. So

38:37

they were doing that. And I was I came

38:39

to see their gigs. And I'd never done solo

38:41

comedy before that. And I was watching them. And

38:43

I was just thinking two things. One was, I

38:46

think I had a realization about that ceiling and

38:48

how to break it was that I'm not going

38:50

to break it in an improv group. I'm

38:53

going to break it on my own. I have

38:55

to start doing stuff on my own. And the

38:57

second one was watching them and thinking, I think

38:59

I can do that even without any having really

39:01

done it. I was watching them and thinking, I

39:04

write songs. And I think they're quite funny.

39:07

And I think if I showed them to people,

39:09

they might laugh. So I just booked myself a

39:11

comedy. I just sort of wangled my way onto

39:13

a comedy lineup. And it went well. That's

39:24

not easy, because in my memory, we're getting on to open

39:26

mics, is it? They'd say, Oh, yeah, we got we got

39:28

a spot in 11 months. Yeah,

39:30

it was tricky. Well, I think I got lucky because

39:33

I because it was musical comedy. And

39:35

the group I was hanging around with were very

39:37

alternative comedy. I got into a

39:39

very alternative comedy lineup. Like it wasn't

39:41

all comedians on the bill. Yeah, it's

39:43

a real mix. So my way into

39:46

comedy was a bit

39:48

from the cabaret alternative side, which

39:50

which helped it meant I could get gigs. How

39:52

long did it take to get to get some

39:54

traction and to get going? Well,

39:56

I entered the competitions like I did funny

39:58

women and did like laughing. horse and

40:00

the empire and got to like

40:02

the finals of those and

40:05

then got an agent after

40:07

about eight months I think. Did

40:10

you? So that was the start of,

40:12

yeah, just slowly started getting up the ladder a

40:14

little bit. And how do you feel about where

40:16

you are now? It's a

40:18

really good question. Thanks, it's a really good podcast

40:20

isn't it? Where I am now is

40:23

interesting to me at the moment because

40:26

my show, I got to host Late

40:28

Night Mash after Nish Kumar left and

40:30

they've now cancelled it. So

40:32

I'm like, I

40:35

went from being so excited about

40:37

being like, you know, a

40:39

woman hosting a late night satire show

40:42

and now I'm the

40:44

first woman to not get

40:46

the opportunity to do a second series. So

40:49

I'm quite gutted about that. Wow, welcome to show

40:51

business. I know. So but that leaves

40:53

me, I've been doing Mash Report or Late Night Mash

40:55

for about six years and

40:58

I reached a certain level of my career through

41:00

those shows being the springboard for it. And

41:03

now they've gone, I feel a bit like, oh, okay, what

41:05

now? And I'm not sure what now

41:07

yet. Exciting time. It

41:09

is exciting. Exciting. Exciting. I

41:12

think it's good. I'm really excited. I wanted to

41:14

say it's terrifying, but I think exciting is a

41:16

better word. Yeah, I'm

41:19

stoked. Yeah. Well,

41:21

we've just been in New Zealand

41:23

and everybody just uses the awesome.

41:27

Everything is awesome like that Lego song.

41:30

Everything is awesome. And where does

41:32

the writing figure because we

41:34

started off talking about advice

41:36

from strangers out now in paperback, the

41:39

friendlier type of read paperback. I've

41:43

not read it. I'm not claiming I have, but

41:45

I can tell just talking to Rachel that it's

41:48

it's a bloody good read. Is

41:51

that will there be more? I

41:53

hope so. Yeah, I'd like to

41:55

do something quite different. I

41:58

found even writing that book. The

42:00

first about 40,000 words were

42:03

things that you must have had

42:05

this like with your first book is the thoughts

42:07

that you've accumulated your whole life. And

42:10

then you get them out and then you're like,

42:12

Oh, well, that's done. I've

42:14

got another, I've got another 80,000 words to go. And

42:18

now I've run out of my thoughts. So

42:20

it will have to be different to that. Or

42:23

I'll have to think up some new things. But I'd love

42:25

to have a crack at fiction. I'd

42:27

love to have a crack at something a bit more specific.

42:33

I don't know what it is yet, but I'd love to write again. I

42:35

enjoyed the process. Yeah. Okay. Would

42:37

you have you ever done stuff you and Marcus together? I

42:40

saw you on I saw you on Graham. And

42:42

that was that was interesting to

42:44

see the two of you. Do you

42:46

kind of do you do that as

42:49

a regular thing? Or was that just for Graham

42:51

or have you done shows together?

42:53

We have. Yeah, we did

42:55

shows together all through lockdown. So

42:57

we started doing a regular Tuesday

43:00

nightclub online that we hosted

43:02

together and we did songs and quizzes.

43:04

What's that like when you you do it? Because

43:06

what about when the two of you are not

43:08

getting on? How does that work?

43:10

And then you've got to do the stuff

43:12

together. Yeah, that has always happened

43:15

a few times. It would in any marriage,

43:17

there are going to be times when you are not

43:19

looking on each other in the best possible

43:22

light. Yeah. You know, when the

43:24

normal equivalent would be having friends for dinner and

43:26

you've had a row when you can, to be

43:28

fair, in that situation, I find you can just

43:30

turn it on for the course and then shut

43:33

the door and then back to where you were.

43:35

But to get up on stage and

43:37

perform with each other. You just

43:39

as exactly like anything else when you perform,

43:41

you just put it on hold. You just

43:43

have to press pause. It is like you've got friends

43:46

for dinner. It is exactly like that. You just got

43:48

on with it. And it's amazing how we know we're actors

43:50

as well. It's amazing how well you can fit your

43:52

fine. We had a really extreme version. We were probably

43:54

having like one of the biggest rows that we've had

43:56

a couple of few months ago. What

43:58

was it about? say family

44:01

stuff and I'm wondering

44:03

as well yeah I'll tell you afterwards tell

44:05

me after and I'll tell you and the

44:07

next part and we had the next morning

44:09

to get on

44:15

a train to Sheffield to film

44:17

John Richardson and Lucy Beaumont pilot

44:20

of a show called perfect couples so

44:22

we have to work together it was

44:24

on a show called perfect couples and

44:26

we had to work together the whole

44:28

day and enjoy a train journey there

44:30

and to and from and we put

44:32

it on pause we didn't

44:34

talk about putting on pause but we did just

44:36

we just did it without real from the start

44:39

of the train journey to the end of the

44:41

second train journey yeah and then we got right

44:43

back into it yeah see there's there's something in

44:45

that isn't there there's

44:50

something there's some kind of creative idea

44:53

within that some sort of outlet of

44:55

that's very interesting and were they aware

44:57

do you think that John and Lucy

44:59

could sense this simmering tension

45:02

I'm a bit overly open sometimes you

45:04

shared that did you so I don't

45:07

think I didn't share it on camera

45:09

but pretty much everyone I saw happened

45:11

like by the way me and Marcus are in

45:13

the middle of a flaming row that's fantastic

45:18

it's been lovely talking to you it's been lovely talking

45:20

to you I'm sorry I'm nearly sipping my coffee while we're

45:22

saying oh goodbye I shouldn't have said how lovely

45:24

it was talking to you while you were drinking

45:27

I'm meant to be a professional meant to be

45:29

something that I do effortlessly I should

45:31

have seen that Rachel Paris was raising

45:34

the cup of surely by

45:36

now cold coffee tepid tepid

45:39

yeah tepid thank you very much

45:42

thank you can I reach forward

45:44

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46:00

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46:11

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46:13

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46:22

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46:24

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46:26

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