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Prime members, yes you. You

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can listen to Briden and

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today. Thank

0:13

you for joining us. Welcome to Briden

0:16

and it's our very special Christmas podcast

0:18

and our guest is none other than

0:22

Shall we call her a national treasure?

0:24

I think we shall. It's Joanna Lumley.

0:26

I had the loveliest time talking to

0:29

her The conversation

0:31

wasn't overly Christmassy although

0:33

Margot Robbie does make an appearance.

0:36

She gets a mention for a

0:38

Christmas reason There's so much

0:40

to talk to Jo about and if

0:42

you're like me, you just enjoy listening

0:44

to her voice anyway She's got such a

0:47

gorgeous voice. We talk about everything

0:50

from Gourination

0:52

Street to travel documentaries

0:55

to Martin Scorsese. Yes,

0:57

you heard right So

0:59

please pull a cracker

1:01

put on the Christmas hat

1:04

relax and enjoy Briden and

1:06

Joanna Lumley I

1:14

Could say that the whole reason for

1:16

starting this a few years ago could

1:19

culminate in today When I

1:21

get to sit down and talk to Joanna

1:24

Lumley That's

1:27

the best intro I've ever had

1:29

well it's sincere because this is a This

1:33

is a thrill you you can't

1:35

meet many people who aren't pleased

1:37

to see you I would have

1:39

thought but that's because I approach

1:41

with such a huge grin with my great

1:43

teeth flashing like a horse And

1:45

have done that all my life So I think

1:48

that one's public that the people

1:50

who who don't know me But

1:52

meet me will only have seen me smiling or

1:54

being silly or being foolish or being funny Or

1:57

Sometimes being brave and saving the world, but

1:59

generally. The kind of goodies vibe from

2:01

the stuff that they would soon terrorists.

2:03

and actually I love people anyway. So.

2:06

I phoned it in it. For.

2:19

Whatever you're into, Amazon Prime offers a

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ad free and catch

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up on the latest

3:19

episodes with out the

3:22

ads. I. get of

3:24

sometimes in supermarkets. Own

3:27

sanity to the post of

3:29

sort of says. People.

3:31

Say you're probably has been deeply

3:33

will recognize it's busy as have

3:35

done nothing to do that, I'm

3:37

just there. I didn't wear dark

3:40

glasses or space in suspicious but

3:42

it's quite see people going. To

3:46

say they say rasping A with

3:48

taking of his associates symptoms. It's

3:50

fine. What Do Tibet selfish robot?

3:52

never mind them because I've made

3:55

my life accept them because of

3:57

their inevitable. As. Soon as he

3:59

says seats. Well, if they're going to happen,

4:01

you must make it absolutely gorgeous. I tend

4:03

to agree with you that there's a I

4:06

think it can be very easy to get

4:08

a little bit precious about all that sort

4:10

of stuff. And there's a great example.

4:13

There's Jerry Seinfeld, you know,

4:15

did this great online

4:17

series, comedians in cars and they're driving in a car,

4:19

but I forget what the comedian is. He's got with

4:21

him and they're in an open top car and somebody

4:23

in the next car is taking a

4:25

photo and this guy says, Oh, they're taking

4:28

photos. Doesn't that drive you crazy, Jerry? And

4:30

he says, No. And he says, What

4:32

do you mean? Well, does it matter? I

4:35

only take a photo. So, and I thought, Oh, how

4:37

lovely. Lovely. That's lovely. And

4:40

actually, inevitably you're in the backs of photographs. If

4:42

you, I had this idea once that I wanted

4:44

to follow how many pictures you were in the

4:47

back of, for instance, where I'm driving on my

4:49

smart car around Westminster square, I don't do it

4:51

again and again, but you're doing passing through parliament.

4:54

And there are people thrilled to see

4:56

Big Ben and they're angling the photograph. And

4:59

on the edge of it, I know that my head

5:01

in my tiny car will be there and they won't

5:03

know and they won't know me anyway, and they go

5:05

back to far away lands and they've

5:07

got the picture of Big Ben, but my

5:09

little head will be in there. My little

5:11

face will be there. Unwitting selfies. Yeah. But

5:14

you then will have observed

5:16

the shift from the autograph

5:19

to the selfie. Well, what

5:21

do you, sometimes the autograph would be to

5:23

Dan and Liz

5:26

on your 50th anniversary. Have

5:29

a wonderful day. Can I do a

5:31

selfie? But what about

5:33

the video message to Dan and Liz on the

5:35

occasion of their anniversary? I do it quite quickly.

5:37

If people, if I can hear it in my

5:39

head when they say, I go,

5:41

hi, Dan and Liz,

5:43

many congratulations on your 50th

5:46

anniversary. Lots of love. And then Pat, cheers,

5:48

sweetie. Like that. Then

5:50

it feels a little bit special. I

5:53

don't mind doing them. Sometimes they're

5:55

quite long, you know, sometimes they're

5:58

quite detailed. And the other thing. people

6:00

do is say, um, my wife, can you

6:02

talk to her? And you go, what's her

6:04

name? Why am I speaking to that girl? And they go, hello,

6:07

Maureen. Yes. I go,

6:10

hello, it's Joanna Lumley here. Why am I

6:12

doing this? What's happened? You know, so these

6:14

are quite strange. And you've got

6:16

to hope that Maureen is as

6:18

well disposed towards you as her

6:20

children think she is. Or her husband.

6:22

Or her husband. He looks like

6:24

a tryst. Get

6:28

away from him. Looking

6:30

at your, looking at

6:32

your career. It's a wonderful

6:34

career. I mean, you've got it. Do you

6:37

not think so? I think it's fabulous.

6:39

I think it's long and extraordinary.

6:41

And I looked around and I go, Oh my gosh, oh my

6:43

gosh. And I've forgotten. But I did them, which you

6:46

do all the times. You're so good at it. But

6:48

I've only done one, a kind of one woman show

6:50

kind of thing, where you go around and talk boringly

6:52

about your life. And kind people come to see you.

6:55

And in the program, I thought just for fun, I'd like

6:57

to put down everything that I've done on

6:59

CFS film, television, radio, kind

7:02

of compassion. Everything that might. And in

7:04

the program, it's about four pages, close,

7:06

close and about four or five lines

7:08

in each page. And I

7:10

thought that's quite something that's quite a crammed

7:13

life. Quite a crammed life.

7:15

You've and but it's the breadth of it that

7:17

I was, I wasn't surprised.

7:19

I was reminded of.

7:21

So that you've got AB fab.

7:24

You've also got on stage with

7:26

Mark Rylance, David Hyde Pierce, you've

7:28

got say the Wolf of Wall

7:30

Street with Caprio

7:33

and Scorsese. So

7:36

many, you've got that thing that follows you

7:38

around Coronation Street. Six episodes,

7:40

right? But years ago,

7:43

but it's part of this institution.

7:46

And then your own personality,

7:48

which has come out more, hasn't it? More recently

7:51

shows, travel shows. Yeah, exactly. I do them as

7:54

me. Yeah. And that's lovely, because it means that

7:56

you learn up as much as you can about

7:58

the subject, the place, the person. you know, talking to.

8:01

But then you speak freely and easily, because

8:03

I'm terrified of having to learn questions and

8:06

stick to them because I don't think it works.

8:08

I can spot it in a

8:10

conversation if one person has got a rehearsing.

8:12

Well, Rob, you and I have both been

8:14

on talk shows where the

8:16

host's next question is written on the screen behind

8:19

you and their eyes drift off. And

8:21

they ask you the next question, which bears no relevance

8:23

to what your last answer was. And

8:26

of course, I pulled the dagger

8:28

out of his chest and I pushed him into the

8:31

bushes. And then we now you've got a

8:33

new show coming out, haven't you? Exactly that.

8:35

Well, hang on a minute. What about that?

8:37

Did the move into doing stuff, more stuff

8:40

as yourself? What

8:42

prompted that? Very easily. A

8:45

group beautifully named

8:47

Warner Sisters, quite a small

8:49

English production company, were

8:52

making a film about the Brook family

8:55

who ran the country

8:57

which used to be Sarawak for 150 years very

8:59

successfully as a

9:01

kind of they ran it rather like

9:04

an English country estate, really. And

9:06

he was nicknamed the White Roger.

9:09

And there were three generations of the Brooks. And

9:12

after that, they eventually said, we can't go on

9:15

running the country. So run out of path. Second

9:17

World War came. They said to the British government,

9:19

won't you take Sarawak? British government went there is

9:21

a where is it? B do we want it?

9:23

It's on Borneo's. It's a little bit of Borneo,

9:27

which had been given by

9:29

the Sultan of Brunei. Brunei is the word

9:31

for Borneo. I went to do a program

9:33

about the Brook family, simply

9:36

because I'd been brought up as a child in

9:38

Malaysia. Sarawak is now

9:40

part of Malaysia. And

9:43

knew the kind of customs and

9:46

pronunciation had a feeling for the

9:48

place. And they thought I'd be a good presenter

9:50

of that show. So I did it

9:52

and absolutely loved it. What did you

9:54

love about it? I loved

9:57

the adventurous nature of it. We went right into

9:59

the heart where There were no roads.

10:01

You had to go upriver by pole, to the

10:04

boats and sleep in longhouses under shrunken

10:06

heads. So what about the work itself?

10:08

Because I suppose I'm getting that is

10:10

the distinction between being an actor, where

10:13

I'm going to suggest that there's far

10:15

more autonomy, when you're presenting something like

10:17

that. I have often said that

10:20

the actor's life can be rather

10:22

infantilizing. We are brought in,

10:24

you're given the new, the clothes and the

10:26

makeup and sit down and wait. And there's

10:28

all of that, which I think becomes

10:30

a little less appealing as we

10:32

get older. It's far more dynamic

10:35

to be presenting something and having

10:37

a little more control. I know.

10:40

And I like the fluid nature

10:42

of filming on location, because

10:44

as you know, filming are

10:46

film-filmed. And the grander they get, the more

10:49

meticulous they are. And

10:51

they say, Rob, you nodded and

10:53

went mm-mm, but you actually took a sip after

10:55

the first mm-mm. Oh, this

10:57

is so narrowing my performance. I can't

10:59

do it. I can't remember when I put my hands

11:02

like that. But some do come and say, you put

11:04

your hands down. And then we're doing, we might,

11:06

we can't choose. See if you can do it like

11:08

this. And then have your hands down for the next

11:10

time you do the take. I actually can't be

11:12

bothered to work like that. I

11:15

like two cameras at all times. And store

11:17

it all up and chuck away what you

11:19

don't want. But this whole thing of a

11:21

huge reverse shot, which is done in the

11:23

afternoon. People,

11:25

it's probably most people probably unaware of that. No,

11:28

they don't know it. They don't can't see it. And thank goodness, because we're so

11:30

good at our jobs. We're exemplary.

11:33

And the camera work is so beautiful. The editing

11:35

is so skillful. And we've got used to it.

11:38

The people are used to it. Buh-buh-buh, buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh. Is

11:40

this a dirty shot? I.E. Can I see?

11:42

Is my shoulder visible in Rob's shot? And

11:44

am I moving it into that case? Can we

11:46

overlap? All this overlaps? People don't understand that.

11:49

Well, that's something you kind of I learned

11:52

as I went along. And I still don't think

11:54

I'm that great at that. And I'll often work

11:56

with other actors. Eddie Marsan

11:58

always comes to mind. I

12:01

thought he was he was

12:03

wonderful technically as well as just his

12:05

performances but the craft of what he

12:07

was doing when I worked with him

12:09

he was very aware I'm often blissfully

12:11

unaware of whether we've done the master

12:13

shot or where it is to

12:16

my detriment I said I'll just do

12:18

my performance as opposed to

12:21

doing my performance for the

12:23

specific camera let alone the

12:25

specific lens you know just the specific

12:27

camera and being aware

12:29

of what they're seeing and what they're not

12:31

seeing have you noticed how people well

12:34

nobody's better than you but people are a lot

12:36

better than me save the performance for

12:38

the massive close-up yes I have yes

12:41

I have it's a little bit dull in the long

12:43

shot honestly it could be a dog doing it then

12:45

if you get a little bit closer and then you

12:47

get a bit closer but the one

12:49

with the tears streaking down and the

12:51

extraordinary involuntary movement of the lip is the big

12:53

close-up and that's the one they'll use I don't

12:56

go to red carpet things do not

12:58

not anymore I think it they've turned

13:00

into this world where people are

13:02

judged oh yeah and the

13:05

papers have a field kit and pictures can make you

13:07

look nice or nasty some of the pictures some

13:09

of the the captions underneath

13:12

say the disastrous choice of something or

13:14

on the same dress in another paper

13:16

looking resplendent in yes but

13:19

I find it a bit of a bore

13:22

when you began with was it the 1960s

13:24

that you yeah you came through well the

13:26

70s really an acting right in the 60s

13:28

I was modeling yeah from 64 to about

13:31

67 I was 68 I

13:34

was I was a

13:36

fashion model actually in London in

13:38

swinging London then Rob lovely I

13:41

mean that age is presented to

13:43

us as such a magical time

13:47

beagle and this and

13:49

that swinging London is

13:51

it accurately spoken of do you I

13:54

think you know distance ending enchantment and rose-color

13:56

spectacles everything and slightly losing out the fact

13:58

that half the time were poor

14:01

or very afraid of doing something or nervous or

14:03

just on edge all the time. But

14:06

it was, it had the freedom

14:08

of not being recorded. Red lines, yellow

14:11

lines, zigzag lines, all these things, parking

14:13

meters. I can remember parking meters coming in. So

14:15

before then, if you had a car, which you

14:17

usually didn't, because London was virtually free

14:19

of cars, these tiny side roads

14:21

were empty, because people went and caught the tube, as

14:23

I did as a model. So

14:26

it was a very different place. And if a nightclub opened,

14:28

there was one called, I think it was

14:31

Cibillas, which opened. And I

14:33

mean, apart from the four tops being there, I

14:35

think the stones were there. I

14:38

think maybe the hooves, the kinks, the

14:40

beetles, those were people went to nightclubs,

14:42

pitched up, danced, dated

14:44

people, left, drove themselves

14:47

home, fell into

14:49

taxes and things, but nobody recorded

14:51

it. There wasn't this obsession for looking

14:54

at ourselves doing things. So in

14:56

that way, it was freer and nicer, I think, or

14:59

different. Nobody could have

15:01

dreamed of ordering takeaway food, because

15:04

it was so, well, there wasn't any,

15:07

but also how expensive. Most of us

15:09

were pretty skinned. And the diet then

15:12

was nothing, a world away from now. A

15:14

world away. It was British, straightforward. Not quite,

15:17

but that was almost when olive oil was

15:19

stuffed, you bought in boots the chemist for

15:21

earache. Is that right? It's a tiny little

15:24

bottle. So if they said to you, go

15:26

forward some years, you'll be putting this on lots of

15:28

the stuff you eat. Well, luckily,

15:31

that was when I was at school, school

15:33

years in the fifties. But by the time

15:35

the sixties came with it came this great

15:37

change in eating habits, Italians, particularly in London.

15:39

And that was the sixties. That was the

15:42

sixties. And these great trattoria started

15:44

and the trattoria

15:47

and spaghetti and sauces and

15:49

garlic and everything was chic

15:52

and lovely. And people like

15:54

Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate

15:56

and Jack

15:59

Nicholson, pitched up at these restaurants.

16:02

Rudolf Nureyev would be eating across the... it

16:04

was quite normal. Now you'll never see that,

16:06

literally you'll never see that. People as

16:08

famous as that, now I don't

16:10

think you see Beyonce much. Not

16:12

often, I mean if I ask her she pops in. But

16:15

if you don't see Beyonce sitting in the

16:18

world sea anymore... No, because all those people

16:20

are separated, aren't they? Yeah. You know, so

16:22

if you're at an event they'll be in

16:24

a separate area, but just in life generally,

16:26

the two do not overlap. It's much more

16:29

divided society. And in the 60s, the good

16:31

thing about the 60s was that it was

16:33

considered quite vulgar to have money, and if

16:35

you had it to say anything about it.

16:37

So if you had money you could't get

16:39

paid for things, but you never went about

16:41

like that. And clothes were just gorgeous clothes,

16:43

or if you didn't have gorgeous clothes you

16:46

made them gorgeous. You made... you wrapped stuff

16:48

around, you cut things off. But that's

16:50

what I say about now, is that now

16:52

if you have money,

16:54

unless you're a rapper, you

16:57

don't boast

17:00

about it. You sort of keep it under wraps.

17:02

And I always say, and correct me if I'm

17:04

wrong, that in the 70s, I remember, so

17:07

I was born in 65, so I grew up in the

17:09

70s, my initial pop culture heroes were in the 70s, and

17:13

they would flaunt their wealth if

17:15

they bought a Rolls Royce or

17:17

a fur coat or whatever. And

17:20

I see that in my

17:22

limited knowledge of the world of red music

17:24

now. So did you witness that change? That

17:27

change, I think so, because it was kind

17:29

of when the Beatles

17:31

broke up, the flower power thing, suddenly

17:34

it died, you pulled back the curtains

17:36

and it was just ash outside.

17:38

It hadn't worked. The

17:42

world was not brothers united

17:45

in sweetness and peace and light and dancing and

17:47

all those things. Half

17:50

of us really believed that if you

17:52

were really kind and wanted

17:54

something enough and were kind enough, that

17:57

it would work. And the

20:00

kind of preview of the film, not help, it

20:02

was a hard day's night or something like that.

20:05

I went into a cinema in Soho to see

20:07

it and do some photographers there. I sat in

20:10

the darkness next to somebody here and watched it all

20:12

the way through. In those days we

20:14

were very cool about everything. When the lights came

20:16

on I thought it was John Lennon. But I

20:18

was too cool to say. That was fantastic. You

20:21

just went, you know, sort of lights and sounds

20:23

like that. Just couldn't say.

20:25

It couldn't bring yourself to be uncool. The

20:28

other thing we talk about with the Beatles is we

20:30

look at the Beatles now from where we are

20:32

now, but watching them in

20:34

that at the Hammersmith odour, they

20:37

weren't the Beatles with the cultural

20:39

significance that we put on them

20:41

now. They were the top pop group. They

20:44

were the new, huge thing. But there

20:46

would be no thought of what they

20:48

were to become and the evolution they

20:50

went through. No. And although we knew

20:52

the songs were going to change rock

20:56

music forever, we didn't

20:58

quite know how much. We didn't

21:00

know how good they were either because it's

21:02

horrible to say this, but not

21:05

a lot comes up to that

21:07

standard. But I mean, those

21:09

are the days of the Everly Brothers and the

21:11

Beach Boys and Elvis not far

21:13

before and Paul

21:15

Simon and people like this, giants then, Elton

21:17

John came along, so that giants have walked

21:20

along the same path. But

21:22

I think partly because you're old,

21:24

Rob, look, is it just me? But do you

21:26

think, I think, because now I'm old,

21:29

that sort of pop music is kind of

21:31

for the young? I know a lot of

21:33

people say, oh no, we just always

21:36

get politicians pretending they're raving to

21:38

some band they've just picked off

21:41

a secretary's desk and look at that.

21:43

I think it's for the young and I think it's falling in

21:45

love and I think it's dreaming the world would be yours. And

21:48

I think that's a time for

21:50

pop music. It's like another country, isn't it? I've

21:53

drifted away from it. I couldn't love music more.

21:55

And sometimes when I hear it, I feel people

21:57

say, listen to this, it's great. You can put

21:59

on special. granny acceptance listening face and

22:01

even even might do a bit of Theresa

22:03

May kind of boogying trying to get down

22:05

with it you know what I mean but

22:08

I just feel

22:10

like it should be I suppose. I think

22:12

so because it's really young. Exactly because it's

22:14

and it's going like that and it's looking

22:17

out and anything is possible. My

22:19

29 year old daughter is in Los Angeles

22:21

at the moment just gone out for a

22:23

week and she sends some pictures back on

22:26

WhatsApp and there was one taken

22:28

from behind of her three I think she took

22:30

it I'm not sure she's in it going across

22:32

a crosswalk or whatever and there's

22:34

beautiful LA light and everything and

22:37

I got quite emotional looking at it because I thought

22:39

wow she's 29. Yeah everything's

22:41

ahead. Yeah so thrilled. You know and

22:43

she's in there in beautiful light and

22:46

I just thought to myself there's

22:48

a whole list of concerns and

22:50

worries and troubles that I'm assuming

22:53

are not in their heads yet

22:56

you know they're just they're young and

22:59

they're there they are living maybe I'm

23:01

romanticizing. No you're not because we were

23:03

a bit like that. I couldn't be

23:05

more concerned now I'm sort of obsessed I'm caught

23:07

up with this notion that it's the end of

23:09

days and watching the world fry and all

23:11

the things that John's asked to talk about

23:13

or comment on and of course reading papers

23:15

and listening to the news and hearing

23:18

the tragedies. A because

23:20

we couldn't afford a television set we didn't hear

23:22

all these things very young newspapers we

23:24

saw we you would take the

23:27

evening standards sometimes when you were

23:29

18 or 19 but

23:32

they were terribly they were terribly

23:34

light if you think of it

23:36

they were very light not light-hearted but light

23:38

kind of dealt with things

23:40

quite well because it was before news

23:43

was entertainment and now

23:45

they and now we have

23:47

access to all this knowledge and I saw a

23:49

great quote the other day perhaps it was to

23:51

do with stoicism it was it was something

23:53

and it says you don't need to know

23:55

everything you know you don't need

23:58

there's always been Loads going on. In

24:00

the world. Now we know about it and it's. It's.

24:02

Own in the landing are just too much

24:04

to worry about. I know several. Well man

24:07

think you've got a step back from it

24:09

because you can't be expected. It's as if

24:11

as a bid son should be born to

24:13

have a conversation with you at the same

24:15

time. Which is why so many

24:17

people now are looking into mindfulness. You

24:19

hear so much about meditation and living

24:21

in the moments because they they saw

24:23

on Sloss and has information where we

24:25

can't. You see the Pandora's box is

24:27

open? Know sweetheart. Deal with it. We

24:29

can't lose. You know, we don't know,

24:31

Know, we don't really know what to

24:33

do about it. We don't assess our

24:35

ears and can blind to it and.

24:37

But I think that human beings have

24:40

our own limitations. The Sharon the actual

24:42

human frame as go to send limitations

24:44

we can't see as well as birds

24:46

we can't here as well as dogs.

24:49

Or would you mean we can't leave

24:51

girls under Mrs. Mel with dogs? Isn't

24:53

it snows? Yes yes I just I

24:56

don't know what what comprehend. What's he?

24:58

A lot of what? animals? Yes. What

25:02

animal here is a good question? Your

25:04

you know the answer. Send your aunt's

25:06

isn't a scam to dressed on them

25:08

up Remember that not many more send

25:10

your answers on us to Dressed on

25:13

the Thames television adding some milk Middlesex

25:15

and we've had we've had a an

25:17

answer from join a Lump Seasons as

25:19

a i don't know but dogs can

25:21

smell were what about bats So now

25:23

okay so that some gonna hear sort

25:26

of etc is was be goodness What

25:28

I'm saying is that we didn't have

25:30

these you know we. Can't seem like fish.

25:32

We can't hold our breath but they couldn't open

25:34

ajar. So. know we have the

25:37

roundabouts but i can open a job and

25:39

i can't meant television sets i can hum

25:41

along to tune but i'm not mozart so

25:43

we can't we can't attribute all fine things

25:45

humans have done on to every human being

25:48

where's all fish can swim to our a

25:50

great observation we can't attribute hold a great

25:52

i've never heard that before the great human

25:54

think and yet could use to their it's

25:57

so are you saying there are no amazing

26:00

fish. The fish are all much

26:02

more muchness. Sort of. You

26:04

don't know. There could be some great fish.

26:07

I know but largely fish, all of them,

26:09

can swim birds, all of them can fly.

26:11

They all do the same thing. They teach,

26:13

they're young or they live for

26:15

a certain amount of time. But human beings, we're

26:18

all over the place which is both good and

26:20

bad. But just as we can't see,

26:22

we can't imagine another colour. Did you

26:24

know that? Our brains can't imagine another

26:26

colour. Also, our brains can't imagine eternity.

26:29

It stops. We can't say, yes but

26:31

yes but you don't know. But what

26:33

happened before then? What was before then? What

26:35

was before then? We can't do it. So what

26:37

I'm saying is that I think that also people

26:39

have a limit to how many things can come

26:41

into their lives. How many people they can know.

26:44

How many people, yes, I think you get to a certain

26:46

age and you'll meet some... because

26:53

in our line of work we're constantly meeting new people.

26:56

And loving them. Wonderful. But

26:58

you've got no more room on the bus.

27:00

We can't arrange to see you

27:03

because you've already got... And then sometimes the

27:05

ones you love very ... because I love you

27:07

Susan, you'll understand if you're not invited off

27:09

the bus. I've got this new lovely

27:12

fat, shiny person. Yes, you

27:14

know it's a thing.

27:16

So we've got to, in the old days when we could

27:18

only go travel on land

27:21

by foot or maybe on

27:23

a horse and cart or something. But that's as far as

27:25

you could go. So largely you stayed

27:27

roughly in your area. So you would

27:29

only really know your people in your

27:31

village and the next village and maybe

27:33

a town. So those are people you saw

27:36

and knew and worked for and fell in love with

27:38

and had children with. It's quite sort of small but

27:41

now people can go on this thing. Mimes, just in

27:44

case people aren't watching this on television. Maiming now going

27:47

onto a phone and doing things I've never done. I

27:49

thought you were knitting. I thought we were back to

27:51

that to the knitwear. Rob, that was me doing a

27:53

mobile phone. This is you with a device. Yes, but

27:55

I've never done it. So when people swipe left or

27:57

right, I've never done that. But that's, you know, what

27:59

is... What's it called? Swiping

28:01

left or right? What's the

28:03

Tinder? Tinder. So on

28:05

Tinder you can see masses of

28:08

people. Yes. Well that's a

28:10

whole other thing. That's a whole other thing. I

28:12

mean I just we were talking about this beard

28:14

is to do some reshoots on a thing and

28:17

pick-ups just be pedantic. Pick-ups not reshoots, pick-ups.

28:19

And I'm acting with a lot of young

28:22

kids in their 20s and

28:24

that's their life. Who

28:26

are you on a date with tonight?

28:28

Or so and so. All right. But

28:30

then a different one on the Friday

28:32

and that's okay. They're not

28:35

being duplicitous. That's how they roll.

28:38

I see which one you see. Oh yeah. Does

28:40

she know that? Oh yeah. Bizarre.

28:42

Bizarre. A new world. No. And going

28:44

back to what you said, we can't

28:47

imagine eternity. Well a few years ago

28:49

I suddenly

28:51

became aware of

28:53

the concept of nothingness when

28:56

we go. Yeah. It never

28:59

struck me and it got me

29:01

rather low for a while. This

29:04

black abyss of nothing

29:07

happening. What

29:09

do you say to that? Well

29:12

because we can't, this is another

29:14

thing we can't do, we can't

29:16

imagine not being. Yeah. So

29:20

people say, well I can't imagine the world

29:23

without me because as far as I'm concerned

29:25

it'll just fold up and dive the whole

29:27

thing. It might decide she's not here anymore.

29:30

Let's just call it a day. But when we

29:32

see our beloved friends, which this year all too

29:34

many of mine have gone, and

29:37

then the oh for three days and

29:39

then suddenly it's gone. You know it's

29:41

literally kind of gone. And

29:43

even if they're written up large in the papers

29:45

it's gone and they're gone. I

29:48

know and it's sort of quite odd. So we've got

29:50

to work out of what you do with mortality. My

29:52

new thing, I'm 77 now. Get

29:54

lost. Yes thank you. Perfect. You look

29:56

fantastic. But I can say that to

29:59

you. could I be not since

30:01

dawn putting on makeup and dyeing my hair

30:03

and trying to look young enough to be

30:05

on your show? There's nobody watching this that

30:07

is going to get... I would like to...

30:10

I mean, you know. Yes, but

30:12

listen, at my seven to seven

30:14

years, although I suspect I've got another 20 in

30:16

here. I suspect you have. But what I want

30:18

to do is to start making friends with the

30:20

old man with the size now, so

30:23

that when he comes, he's an old friend. So

30:26

how do you make friends with the old man?

30:28

You just talk to death or the next one,

30:30

the next step. And every day, you do

30:32

all the things that you hope will leave...

30:35

So don't leave dirty stuff in the sink,

30:37

all this and like that, and the equivalence

30:39

of it. So get your life as much

30:41

as quietly, quietly, squared away. Not Swedish cleaning

30:43

or whatever it's called, but just generally sorting

30:46

stuff, sorting stuff. So that when death

30:48

comes, which it will. So it's

30:50

not being gloomy. No, no, no, no.

30:52

It's not being gloomy. But we live in

30:54

denial, don't we? Yeah, but we shouldn't. We

30:56

should go Yippee-Yay-Yay. Here it is. What

30:59

was ever thus? What was ever thus, Peter

31:01

Pan said. Dying will be an awfully big

31:03

adventure. Well, it won't because

31:05

we won't know, but I think there'll also be no... Nobody's

31:07

gone to the other side and come back and told us.

31:10

People have said bright lights and it seems like this, or

31:12

there's a corridor of people, or hands reached out, but nobody

31:14

can really say what it was like when you got there.

31:17

Maybe the veil is very, very thin. Maybe

31:20

it isn't as final as we think. Only the people at

31:22

the other side who are probably mouthing at us now are going...

31:26

And we can't see them again. Can anybody

31:28

see? It's like this police inquiry room. With the

31:30

mirror. Hasn't anyone ever done one of those

31:32

scenes? I haven't. I thought you were going to say, have

31:34

you ever been arrested and been in one of those rooms?

31:36

Well, obviously, you may. I didn't want to. It was a

31:38

bit tactful there because it looked as though you might have

31:40

been arrested at some stage. And look closely. I looked as

31:42

though I might have been arrested. Maybe it's a small beard.

31:45

I don't know what it is. It's something. I'm a small

31:47

man. It's the only sort of beard I can have. Anyway,

31:50

I long to do one of the scenes where

31:53

there's that mirror. You've not done one of

31:55

those things, have you? I don't know. You always

31:57

wanted to see how your hair is. And there's an

31:59

angry... detective looking

32:02

through the windscreen. I think it's like

32:04

through a glass darkly. If when we

32:06

do shuffle off, we do

32:08

get to hang out with some

32:10

of the great already departed. I

32:12

know who you will make a

32:15

beeline for. Thank

32:17

you very much. Elvis Presley. That's what I

32:19

was doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you kind

32:21

of knew, you intuited it, but you knew

32:23

anyway because I just, you knew anyway. You

32:26

and I have chatted occasionally about a shared love for

32:29

Elvis. Yeah. So

32:31

given your vintage, you

32:34

were around when he

32:36

first appeared? Not

32:38

really. Well, I was younger, so I was

32:40

about 10, nine or 10 when he first

32:42

appeared. And it would have

32:44

been on big old records, which

32:46

we couldn't really afford to buy. And

32:48

we weren't really encouraged to go far

32:51

away land. Far away land, more beautiful

32:53

than sunlight. And I've got to

32:55

say that all the people who met him and

32:57

worked with him said that he was literally the

32:59

most handsome man, the most beautiful creature they'd

33:01

ever seen. This is completely straight

33:03

musicians who are not given to have that. They

33:05

said he was quite fantastic. I loved his nature. I

33:08

loved the fact that he was faultlessly

33:10

generous to those around

33:12

him, not even those he was, obviously

33:14

to those he loved, but the complete

33:16

strangers. He was generous to

33:18

a few. You went out and did a

33:20

show, a documentary. Which of his people

33:22

did you meet? I've forgotten the names.

33:25

Don't nail me on this, but one was

33:28

Jerry, I think. Jerry Schilling. Jerry Schilling.

33:31

The ones who were close to him of his

33:33

gang, of the taking care of business gang, you

33:35

know, and Priscilla, of course. How'd

33:38

you get on with her? Very, very well.

33:40

I loved her. She was extremely sweet and

33:42

generous. She let me come to the

33:44

Abbey Road Studios where they'd taken

33:47

Elvis's voice from

33:49

the American trilogy, is it? Yes, that's one of

33:51

the ones they did. And they'd got

33:53

the LSO or somebody who'd doing the new orchestral backing.

33:55

And they'd again put Elvis's voice over the top of

33:57

it. And Priscilla said he would have loved it.

34:00

He loved the sound of big bands and orchestras

34:02

and how it would have thrilled him. And

34:04

Rob, I know you and I in the past have talked

34:07

with, honestly, tears brimming about

34:09

the Colonel Parker element in his

34:11

life and how he was restricted

34:13

from finding, I mean,

34:16

even though he's the god that he is, he

34:18

could have been a great actor which he would have loved. Could

34:21

have travelled the world and had

34:23

even more impersonators. But

34:25

it makes his success all the more

34:28

remarkable, the fact that he didn't play

34:30

outside America. From Elvis Presley,

34:32

the natural leap is to Jennifer Saunders.

34:35

She's been a big part, because it's not just

34:37

Ab Fab, there was Jam and Jerusalem as

34:39

well. How did she... Was

34:41

that the first comedy that you did? Because

34:44

prior to that... Well, I

34:46

started off at the BBC in

34:49

a Julie Cooper show called It's Awfully Bad for your Eyes

34:51

Darling in the 60s, in those early 70s. 1970, I think

34:53

it was. 71. About four girls sharing a flat. And it

34:55

was six episodes. Unfortunately,

35:03

it had a completely unsympathetic

35:05

and somebody who had no

35:07

sense of humour directing it. So although

35:09

it was very funny and lightweight and heralded

35:11

in a lot more kind of girls showing

35:13

flat being silly, including girls on top, including

35:15

those sorts of things. It

35:19

didn't make a hit, but so I

35:21

was light entertainment, light ent, which

35:23

is why when they started to do on television,

35:26

Shakespeare's note, it's not the only

35:28

way. But anyway, I was never considered for a

35:30

straight phase or things like that, because

35:33

I'd started off in light ent. But

35:35

you came to that stuff, like you did that fantastic thing

35:37

with Albert Finney and Tom Court. Yes,

35:40

that was lovely. A rather English marriage. That was

35:42

a wonderful piece of work. Beautiful, wasn't it? I

35:45

loved working with you. But that's what I mean

35:47

about the breadth of your work, to

35:49

be an Ab Fab and then to work

35:52

with those guys in that. It must be

35:54

very satisfying. It's very, very

35:56

gorgeous. And I think we're all the same. If you

35:58

have the same food every day, you know. It's

36:00

lovely. And I understand people who love the

36:02

certainty of remaining in a soap opera for

36:04

a long time. Because after all, they're not

36:06

saying the same lines every day. Different

36:09

crises emerge, and costumes change

36:11

and so on. Characters

36:13

move in and out. And so

36:16

they have that life. But most of us kind of want

36:18

to tear that hat off

36:20

and start again on something brand new. I

36:23

think that's the sort of circus element that I love

36:25

about our business. Carney folk.

36:27

Yeah. And we're just rattling

36:29

on, always below the salt. I think sometimes we get

36:31

a little bit above ourselves and make very important

36:33

people. We were always entertained with below

36:36

the salt. We weren't at the top table. You

36:45

said the light end aspect of

36:47

it. I was looking through the

36:50

CV isn't the right word. I was

36:52

looking through and seeing these kind of

36:55

seminal British shows that you popped up

36:57

in on your way. Are you being

36:59

served? Yeah. Or did you

37:01

play in that? I played in it twice. My

37:04

ex-husband wrote it. And

37:07

course, Jeremy Lloyd. That connection. Yes. And

37:09

he could see I was absolutely skinned and out of work. And so

37:12

he gave me a part of a German

37:14

customer at some stage. And then

37:16

also I was somebody who was promoting some new

37:18

scent. I can't remember what it was. But

37:21

I did that. I did Stepto and some. Yeah. I

37:24

did On the Buses. I did The Cuckoo Wolf. I

37:26

did things where I was somebody's girlfriend. I was

37:28

usually somebody's girlfriend. Yeah. And

37:31

that was all it was. Yeah. And

37:33

then what was it then? Because the first thing I

37:35

think of is the New Avengers. Was

37:37

that the first thing where you were front

37:39

and center? By that time I'd

37:41

done a Dracula film. I'd been on Coronation Street. I'd

37:43

done all kinds of things. But

37:46

Coronation Street was eight

37:48

episodes, one month's work. Dracula

37:51

film was the last film ever, Christopher Lee.

37:53

Yeah, that's right. And

37:55

Peter Cushing did together Hammerhouse of

37:57

Horror, 200 quid, well done. know

38:00

that kind of thing. It was fine. So now

38:02

we're in the 1970s. That would have been 70s

38:04

even up to the year. Yes, 1970s, sorry, early

38:06

70s. And I got the part of

38:09

Purdie and the New Avengers. And that

38:11

was hard fought because they were looking for,

38:13

you know, through Ralston Oates and Girls to

38:15

do it. And the best thing

38:17

that could have happened to me because all those pay was

38:19

lousy. And it was a buy out forever more.

38:23

But that didn't matter because I was

38:25

working with top English actors all the

38:28

time. The guest artists were wonderful. Patrick

38:31

McNeigh and Gareth Hunt, favourite people

38:33

in the world, the kindest and funniest men to work

38:35

with. And all working

38:37

on films. It was the equivalent of doing 13

38:40

feature films in two years. Were

38:43

they bought out as well? Or were you bought

38:45

out because you were the new? Gareth and I

38:47

think were bought out. Pat has been in there

38:49

before and had been in negotiation contract. And later

38:51

he went back when he could see that we

38:53

had nothing. It was a poor from it. But

38:55

anyway, I then did San Francisco with the great

38:57

just department David McCallum. And that

38:59

was the first time I my bank balance

39:02

stopped coming in in red writing. Really?

39:04

At that point. Yeah.

39:07

Interesting, isn't it? And you how long were

39:09

you with Jeremy Lloyd for who for people

39:11

who don't know was part of a 20

39:13

minutes. We were married for eight

39:16

months. Really? V fast. You do

39:18

things fast. I met him and married him in

39:20

two weeks. No, we did

39:22

things like that before you were born.

39:24

Now, actually, you you were born. You're

39:27

in five years. I was still very

39:29

tiny. I was tiny. Little

39:32

beard, little chap. There I was

39:34

in South Wales trying to grow a little

39:36

beard. And you know what? We

39:38

one of our dogs when I was a

39:40

kid, well, when I was a teenager with

39:43

Yorkshire Terrier and called it Purdie. Did

39:45

you named after your character? Oh, I'm

39:47

so touched. Yes. Was it a nice

39:49

dog? Terrible dog. No, it was. She

39:51

was. She was very nice. We've gone

39:54

off from Jennifer Saunders. Yes. How did

39:56

how did she come into your life?

39:58

Well, but she's been a. big part.

40:00

Huge. She was in French and Saunders and

40:02

we all saw and roared after. She was

40:05

in Girls on... Did you have a guest

40:07

on French and Saunders? No. Right. And

40:11

the script came through and there it was, one of

40:13

the funniest things I've ever seen. Was it written for you?

40:16

No. It was just a script. And

40:19

there was no indication of what Patsy was like

40:21

or who she was. There were no descriptions or

40:23

anything, words written down, you know. She

40:26

wasn't thinking of you when she wrote it. No. Oh. There's

40:30

no slightly muddled stories because Aide

40:32

Edmondson always said that it was,

40:35

well, that he suggested me. I was

40:38

on a Ruby wax show. Ruby suggested that she

40:40

suggest me. Jennifer has now said

40:42

that she thinks she saw me on the Ruby wax and

40:44

thought I'd be good. It doesn't matter. I hadn't met her.

40:46

I saw the script. I

40:48

thought it was fantastic. I was taken to the

40:50

BBC to meet her and to do a little

40:53

read through of the scene where I have to

40:55

say that either I did it so badly or

40:57

she was so uncommunicative that I was certain

40:59

she didn't like me. I went back home and said to my agent, I

41:01

love the script but I have to say you must get me out

41:04

of this because she's too polite to say she doesn't like me. And

41:06

I didn't think I can do it. She doesn't want me. She doesn't know

41:08

how to say it. No. And my

41:10

agent said, just do it. It's a pilot. Who

41:13

knows? It might not work. So I did

41:15

it. That was a pilot. And at the pilot were Dawn

41:18

and Lenny and... I'm

41:22

trying to think of all... I mean anybody

41:24

Aide was there and Rick and you

41:27

know the heavyweights of the comedy thing were

41:29

all there watching the pilot. And then we

41:32

knew it was going to be a

41:34

success. Not how much a success. We thought

41:36

that maybe people would enjoy it in the

41:39

south of England where they knew what Harvey

41:41

Nicks was. But when he went across the

41:43

world it was extraordinary. That's interesting isn't it?

41:45

That conjures up the sort of thing you

41:47

might get in notes which is, you know,

41:49

being very specific with Harvey Nicks. That's not

41:51

going to play outside of sound. But it's

41:54

all about being specific. Isn't it? It's all

41:56

about detail all the time. And people who

41:58

feel outside of it kind of... and

48:00

couldn't break a contract to do it. And then

48:02

it came to me. So I want, although I

48:04

want, and I now pretend, boasty to people and

48:06

say, Oh, you know, Leo seen me

48:08

and adored me, marty marred me

48:10

forever. It's that's not strictly true. But

48:14

they send you the script, we do it

48:17

now in England, but in those days, only

48:19

American scripts would come with your name printed

48:21

diagonally in gray across it on every single

48:24

page, you go, they want

48:26

me in their film,

48:28

and this is my script. So you

48:30

say I just said yes, I saw the thing I

48:32

said, yes, it will read through it. Yes,

48:34

okay. It's a read. Find the scene, find

48:36

the scene. I said, yeah, look, look, look,

48:38

in case Leo to Capri and you

48:42

go. Yes, yes, I'd love to do this. I

48:44

think I can finish it in. I apologize for

48:47

saying, how did you

48:49

that that I I'm in the

48:51

Barbie film, there's a fair number of people who

48:54

said, what's he doing in

48:56

the Barbie film? So I so I

48:58

know that don't laugh. I

49:00

haven't seen it. I haven't seen it.

49:02

I want to see it.

49:04

I want to see it laughing even

49:06

more. Do you feel that you do feel

49:08

that you can? Did I was a

49:10

can I was sugar daddy

49:13

can what in but in the Barbie

49:15

film? Girlfriend, this is what

49:17

I'm telling you. If we

49:19

can make it less about you. And

49:21

more about I didn't know I am

49:23

in Barbie and some

49:26

reaction on social media was what

49:28

the hell is he doing in

49:31

Barbie, which was a little bit of my

49:33

reaction. So I what I'm saying is I

49:35

understand and I didn't

49:39

mean but yes, I mean

49:41

it. Did you did you work with with

49:43

Canon with some real person

49:46

of course with

49:48

Ryan Gosling and my Margot Robbie was

49:50

involved with Wall Street. I

49:53

work with your dear, dear friend Margot. Did you

49:55

I did work with your dear, dear friend

49:57

Margot. He's pretty gorgeous, isn't she? She's very impressed.

50:00

person all around because she's got the business

50:02

head as well. Oh has she? Well she's

50:04

produced the film. Oh my god! Yeah really

50:06

impressive. When we did The Wolf of Wall

50:08

Street, Margot I know you remind me of

50:10

saying this, she was quite a new part,

50:12

I mean she's quite a new kid on

50:14

the block and it

50:16

was Christmas, sort of Christmas like

50:18

November coming into December and

50:22

she made me out of dough. You

50:25

know when you make flour and water together and you

50:27

can mold it into shape and it dries as

50:29

hard as it was then and

50:31

coloured it. She made a J and did

50:34

it with candy stripes on it, painted it and

50:37

put it with a little loop on it for my

50:39

Christmas tree. Gave it to me

50:41

as a little Christmas present. How lovely! Well I

50:43

can categorically tell you I didn't get anything like

50:45

that. Made by Margot Robbie, she's grown out of

50:48

that sort of stuff now. I've got nothing. It

50:52

wasn't the first time when you did it. It

50:54

was summer. Was it

50:56

exciting? Yeah I did a day

50:58

on it. Just a day. It's lovely

51:00

though, great and it's there, all six seconds

51:04

are there. Don't

51:06

tease, is it really six seconds? Would

51:09

I lie to you? Yes. That

51:12

was unintentional. That was Call My

51:14

Bluff. Very much so. Wasn't

51:16

it? I loved doing that. Oh I was

51:18

always on Frank's team because

51:22

Patrick made me laugh hysterically. Once I was on

51:24

Patrick's team and I just became overwhelmed with laughter

51:26

and therefore was no good as a team mate

51:29

with him. But on Frank's side,

51:31

I love that. I love that. I think

51:33

it's a sweet format. Call

51:35

My Bluff or would I like to? The same. Would I like to? It's

51:37

the same. But if you had

51:39

to choose between the two shows, is your

51:41

favourite would you say? Would

51:46

I like to? You say would you? And

51:48

then out of the three of us regulars

51:50

on there if you had to have a

51:52

favourite. I think it might be you Rob.

51:54

Thanks Joanna. I'm talking to Joanna Lumley where

51:56

she's clearly stated that I am her favourite.

52:00

Lee and to David.

52:02

What was Scorsese like to work with?

52:04

Immaculate. He's got a great sense of

52:07

allergy about many things. So he's

52:09

allergic to dust, pollen, insects, air,

52:12

light, travel, all kinds of things. He

52:14

dresses immaculately, incredibly

52:18

smiley, always smiling and generous and

52:20

open to people, but like some

52:23

fabulous hustled emperor always being taken from

52:25

somewhere into somewhere. And on the sets

52:28

there would be a sort

52:30

of green room for that star. He said

52:34

one scene, rather than mention my part, I

52:36

was at the wedding and I was at

52:39

the scene in the park. I remember the park scene.

52:41

Yes, well I did. I was at the wedding

52:43

scene which was a whole day. Did you have much to

52:45

do in that scene? Because I don't remember. Look, I

52:48

was in it. The camera came,

52:50

the camera showed me in it and also

52:52

I had a little word with Leo on

52:54

the dance floor when she said, oh look,

52:56

it's Aunt Emma, Margot Robbie, your

52:58

so-called co-star who you claim to know,

53:00

ran across to me, if

53:03

you'd known her of work, you'd know this,

53:05

ran across Aunt Emma and then she

53:07

said, um, um,

53:10

Jordan, Jordan, come here,

53:12

Aunt Emma. And he came over

53:14

and he had white stuff on his nose and I

53:16

went dust, dust, dust because I knew that it was

53:19

cocaine and then said something cute and funny which I

53:21

can't remember. So I was in the world. Why

53:23

have you put me in this difficult position? I've tried

53:26

to, anyway, how many minutes? But Scorsese was a

53:28

magician. He was a darling man but he did

53:30

live in the inner, inner, inner sanctum and so

53:32

from the green room you'd go to the thing, you'd

53:34

have to be taken by an assistant, then you'd be

53:36

held in a keeping bay, then somebody would say

53:39

Mr Scorsese will now see you. So when he

53:41

asked me to come and see him because he

53:43

wanted to talk to me about by travelling to

53:45

the northern lights and to tell his wife what it

53:47

was like. He just wanted a conversation with you about

53:50

that. To achieve that you had to go to all

53:52

these different places. No, you had to keep away from

53:54

all the hordes and

53:56

the surrounding hordes. It was an emperor thing but

53:58

then in the middle of it he He was so thrilled and

54:01

so complimentary and it

54:04

was a sweet man. And much later when

54:06

we were filming the film of Ab Fab, we were

54:08

down in Nice. I

54:10

got a message from Scorsese to say where I come

54:12

and see him receiving the Le Gendonnard. And

54:16

I wasn't allowed to go. Why? Because

54:19

I was filming. Oh, Jennifer Swanders. I know.

54:23

The other side of Jennifer that I don't think I've

54:25

seen. I think

54:27

he probably would. Oh, what a dreadful woman.

54:30

He knew you'd gone to see the

54:32

Northern Lights. That's all part of this

54:35

phase of your career, these travel shows

54:37

and these different things. And now a

54:40

podcast. With my

54:42

husband, Joanna and the Maestro, which you very,

54:44

very sweetly joined us on. I tried to

54:46

drag it down to my level. Yes. This

54:49

is how it started. At nighttime, we have these sort

54:51

of, this is opening my life to you. At

54:54

nighttime, I have a bath and

54:57

our bathroom door opens into the bedroom. I'm bringing

55:00

you right into my life. It's

55:02

even in bed now reading and I'm in

55:04

the bath and I always turn on a

55:07

music station, classical music

55:09

station. Sometimes we have, you

55:12

know, France unique or something like this, which

55:14

has classical music or one of the ones

55:16

from Germany or classic FM. But classical music

55:18

comes through. While I'm listening quietly in the

55:20

bath, I like a bath because I

55:23

think of everything in the whole day. Quite

55:25

often I think about you and what I could say to

55:27

you, that kind of thing. But I lie in the bath,

55:29

think of it, but musical questions come up to me and I

55:31

shout, Stevie, how would you,

55:34

if you have a thing, staccato marked

55:36

by something, what figure do you

55:38

use to move the staccato? How would you? And

55:41

I shout it through to him and he gives me answers. So

55:43

this prompted the

55:45

idea of Joanna and the Maestro, which

55:47

is that me as every woman, talking

55:51

to somebody who knows a great deal about music

55:53

and has done all his life. Because Stephen is

55:55

a conductor. He's also a composer and pianist and

55:57

organist and so on. But he's going to be a very good musician.

56:00

actor. But also he knows and

56:02

loves music. And

56:04

so we started doing things which was

56:06

really talking about music. And

56:09

it's interesting to know that a lot of

56:11

people who are now starved of music in

56:13

schools, Rob, are

56:15

at home because or even where

56:18

we all used to at school, we used to

56:20

just sing in assembly together. There was no

56:22

singing anymore. As a Welshman, you must mourn

56:24

the loss of singing. I

56:27

mourn the loss of people having to engage

56:29

in some kind of music, which isn't pop

56:31

music. I think it's important to know all

56:34

kinds of music, including jazz and swing and

56:36

whatever, big band and

56:38

classical. You can't just have rap music

56:41

and pop music because that's starving you.

56:43

Anyway, so we don't have resistance for

56:45

me. My perception of you

56:48

and Stephen is that, tell

56:50

me if I'm right, that for years you said you

56:52

didn't go to red carpet things. You wouldn't often, you'd

56:54

never really see the two of you out and about,

56:57

I may be wrong. And

56:59

I remember thinking, oh, they keep that very, very private.

57:03

Fair, fair comment. Yeah, but quite dull as

57:05

well. We just, okay. But then suddenly you're

57:07

doing this and I was, I went, oh,

57:10

that's, that's nice. So that was, that's a

57:12

change of, of approach. That's

57:15

the impression I got was that you were

57:17

very, I've done the concert with him where

57:19

I was a narration piece and the wolf.

57:22

I've done something from one of the T.S.

57:24

Eliot poems and something that he was conducting,

57:26

but largely we don't work together because he's

57:28

a musician with orchestras and I'm an actress.

57:31

But this seemed to be something, first of all, we didn't,

57:33

we don't have cameras on us. So we're just voices, which

57:36

is quite useful for people who are driving. I

57:38

mean, obviously this is a very superior way of

57:41

doing it with cameras and just

57:43

here and this

57:45

sense of plushness and money spent.

57:48

Whereas we do it at our music room at

57:50

home, as you know. Oh yeah. Which is the

57:52

real impoverished garret. You

57:55

go to Joanna's house

57:58

where you've lived for some consideration. It

58:01

is beautiful. You go in, you go

58:03

down, suddenly you're going through the garden,

58:05

there's a babbling brook you're being taken,

58:07

there's mature foliage, suddenly another building appears

58:09

out of nowhere, the doors open, there's

58:11

a grand piano, there's art, there's, you

58:13

know, make out like it's somebody's hovel,

58:15

it's like the first thing I get

58:17

into the car, I just, I just

58:19

put into their house, it's incredible, you

58:21

go through the back door, you go

58:23

through the, it's gorgeous, isn't

58:26

it? Yes. It wasn't always like

58:28

that, because it is a little

58:30

factory at the end, which we, a little

58:32

factory, no, but it was a factory, but

58:34

not a kind of, you know, didn't make

58:36

tyres, it was a print works. And

58:38

we and some friends in the square club

58:40

together and bought the building and divided it

58:42

up. So it's art studios and things,

58:45

office there, and our beautiful music room,

58:48

which has got Stevens office and a kitchen and we have

58:50

all kinds of things there as well as doing recordings. We

58:53

love it. It's a good place. Oh, it's

58:55

lovely. So the future, what,

58:59

what number one, what do you want? And

59:01

number two, what do you think realistically

59:03

will be the future on a work level?

59:07

Realistically, I will be doing another travel programme

59:09

next year, I believe, and I'm hoping we're

59:11

waiting for the green light, it will be

59:14

following the Danube through the 10 or

59:16

11 countries that it goes through, ending up in the Black

59:18

Sea. So it'll be sort of from the Black Forest to

59:20

the Black Sea. The

59:23

amount of films that as we know, the

59:25

writers strike has dislodged, which have been sort

59:28

of shunted forwards. You can't now tell whether

59:30

they've lost their traction and will disappear. Yeah,

59:32

lots of things do a lot will. And

59:34

others come back slightly renewed and reinvigorated with

59:36

a new thing about a new cast

59:39

because a lot of the actors have had to go on.

59:41

It's dislodged us all. And we should just say,

59:43

Rob, that it's not only us, but it's

59:45

people who make wigs, the people who

59:47

operate cameras, the people who drive cars,

59:49

everybody's been completely thrown away. So now

59:52

I hope we're patching ourselves back into

59:54

some sort of life. Well, the writer

59:56

strikes over the actors strike, they're talking

59:58

more regularly now, are they not? impression

1:00:00

I get. I believe the SAG people are

1:00:02

talking more often. This is, we're speaking in

1:00:05

October

1:00:08

of 2023, if you're watching this in

1:00:10

the future, and you're looking back as

1:00:12

to how we lived in these bygone

1:00:15

ages. Jo, it's so lovely, thank

1:00:17

you for coming in. Rob, thank you for having

1:00:19

me, I've loved being here, I love talking to

1:00:21

you, I love listening

1:00:23

to you, I love admiring you, and

1:00:26

I'm now going to go and see your latest film, Barbie.

1:00:29

I can think of no better

1:00:31

way to end, so

1:00:34

why am I still talking? Goodbye.

1:00:39

If you've enjoyed listening, remember

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