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Music.

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All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another edition of the Brothers

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in Company podcast presents Creators Conversation.

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Now, when we say creator, it's not only artists, entertainers,

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content creators, or businesses. It can be also about professionals who are in their respective fields,

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providing resources and support in the community, especially when it comes to

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the well-beings of others. And we have a special guest today that does just that.

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I had the honor to meet this intelligent, caring lady at the Black Expo.

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She's a licensed master social worker and provide trauma-focused therapy to

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those living with HIV-AIDS and at risk.

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And she's also a mother of a five-year-old daughter.

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So ladies and gentlemen, Angel Brown.

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Angel Brown, welcome to the show.

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Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. You're welcome. You're welcome.

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How are you doing today on this beautiful Saturday?

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I'm doing I can't complain. So I'm just resting up written ready for the next week and whatever comes, you know.

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That's that's good. That's good. So I know I did gave a little bit of an introduction

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to you, Angel, but tell us a little bit about yourself and where you're from.

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Okay, so I am from Johns Island, South Carolina, and basically lived here my whole life.

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Instead of when I went off to college, I got my undergrad at Catawba College in North Carolina.

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And shortly after that, like a year later, I had my daughter.

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And that didn't stop me from going back to get my master's. I was going to take that gap year.

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I got pregnant. I was like, you know what? Can I do this? started questioning

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myself but I sticked on the plan and I graduated from USC with my master's in

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social work and shortly after that.

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Got to give you got to give you your applause for that yes.

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It was tough. I can I can only imagine. Yeah shortly after I got licensed.

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Congratulations on getting that license and, and just going through that process

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to being where you are now.

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Now, since you are a license, a licensed master social worker.

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So explain about what that means or what that is.

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Basically social workers are the people who are that,

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that that line between a lot

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of political social issues that may

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impact people who who are under privileged

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underserved and we do the best that we can to like make sure that they get all

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the resources that they need and that can come from a wide variety of different

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occupations and i know when i say social workers some people are like child

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care services yes things like that but you You know,

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we do a lot more than that. You know, case management, of course.

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And then we also work in schools. We work in hospitals.

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We also can be forensic social workers. We can work in hospice,

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pilot care, like all the things, mental health.

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We can be health. We can be supervisors. We can own our own nonprofits. We can do all the things.

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Very dynamic. Yes. Very dynamic.

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Yeah. Very broad. Yeah. So it's very hard to get bored. Or like if you get bored

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of one thing, there's always something else you can do with that social work

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degree. There you go. There you go.

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Now, going back to earning your certificate and being in your field,

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what inspired you to get into social worker and trauma-related therapy?

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Okay. So what got me into social work is that I always wanted to be a therapist.

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But then I also had like this...

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Uncertainty, like, ooh, what if I don't want to do therapy? Like,

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what if I start doing therapy and I don't like it? Then I'm stuck with this degree.

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And, you know, it already takes a lot of work to get a degree in the first place.

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And my sister, who also has her social work degree, she's like 14 years older than I am.

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And she's, you know, getting her social work degree. I'm like, what is that about?

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And, you know, she introduced me to like, oh, you know, you can be a therapist,

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You can do case management. You can do all different types of things with this degree.

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Like if you get bored doing therapy, there's other things that you can do.

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And that's when I was like, you know, that doesn't sound too bad.

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I like some flexibility. So I got my degree, my master's and my first job, like I got hired by both of

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my internships in my master program. So that was awesome.

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Didn't have to wait too much for a job. Already got one.

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So I started back in HIV in my grad school.

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And as an intern, wasn't sure what HIV was about.

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I was like, I don't know. But I ended up falling in love with it.

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It's awesome. the people who the pop

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that population is just so unique and I

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love everything about them and so I worked

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with them for a while and doing case management

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and it's changed a

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change of pace was needed and I wanted to get into therapy and I got into where

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I am now and I started doing in work with people who have experienced sexual

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assault or any other types of any victim of crime.

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So my specializing in sexual assault, and I did that for about a year.

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And then now I've been able to reconnect with my passions of trauma focused therapy and HIV.

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And now I do that together and I could not be any happier.

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Yeah, it's this sounds good to have someone who wants to help people,

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you know, dealing with HIV AIDS or people dealing with trauma related issues

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just to have someone who is really passionate about doing that.

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Because we all know about HIV AIDS and

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trauma related issues going on and people need

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that support so it's it's it's refreshing

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to know that you yourself is

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passionate about that you're you

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know helping people try to get their lives back together yeah and breaking down

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those stigma those stereotypes against mental health and HIV there you go very

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black community there you go and And that's going to be and that actually leads

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to the next the next thing I have for you now,

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because on the on the podcast, it's just me and my brother.

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My brother's not here. He's he's out and about.

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So on the podcast, we talk about issues of mental health because that's really

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important for everybody in society, especially for us.

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And, you know, in the black community, we kind of shy away from mental health

7:35

issues of, oh, it's nothing wrong with you. You'll be all right.

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You know, get over it. It's just life or whatnot.

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And what do you what do you thought? Because I know for myself getting,

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you know, for mental mental health or just talking to a therapist,

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it actually does help when you can go to some about someone who is number one

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professional and licensed. And also you can get that, you know, get the right type of get the right type

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of support or get the right type of. You can get an objective viewpoint because when you're talking to friends and

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family, they're already subjective to everything that's going on because they

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know about it and they're going to have their own opinions and biases about it.

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But you're actually talking to someone who has no clue and who is only there

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to hear and talk about your problems from an outsider standpoint. point.

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And yeah. And I want to talk about the stigmas because sometimes those stigmas

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actually prevents us from getting that help, getting the therapy that,

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that we need, especially if you're. I would say, you know, issues of, let's say, HIV AIDS or someone dealing with

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substance abuse or, you know, at risk.

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And, you know, it's kind of it's already hard for them to deal with that, you know, themselves.

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And, you know, going to, you know, getting the help that they need.

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Talk about those stigmas that that we have, especially in the black community,

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because I feel like the stigmas is what's keeping us away from what we have

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to do, what we have to get. Oh, of course.

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I mean, and it's, I wouldn't say, there's a whole lot of components that go

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along with the stigma, especially with Black people in mental health.

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It's like, I feel like a lot of there's that message from the church that does

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not give the best connotation towards mental health.

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They look at it as like a demon being like being

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possessed by some sort of demon and like praying in a

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way things like that and when those patients when I do have some of those patients

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who are very strong and faith-based I like to say well like yes it's one thing

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to have faith but faith without work is what you know so that work that you're

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putting in is going to therapy coupled with that that faith.

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And another stigma, I mean, it's not really a stigma, but it's hard to connect

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and talk with someone who doesn't look like you.

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And usually, therapists nowadays are white.

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And when we come in and there are certain issues that they may not understand,

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they may have a bias or just historical factors that come into just seeing a white provider.

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We if we're getting that accurate.

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Accurate treatment or being treated well. Microaggressions happen all the time.

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And sometimes that just causes people to, oh, well, I went to therapy and it was terrible.

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And I just give up because therapy is just not for me.

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And if that one person doesn't work out, you can always find someone else.

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And I'm not to say that, you know, all the white providers are that way.

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I talk about racial inequality and

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they're very on it about you know the more aware

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of these problems and issues and it's just

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I that would probably be a big one I would say is coming to talk to someone

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who you feel like you can't relate to right right because like like you said

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sometimes family members and friends can give the wrong advice you know they'll

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give you the get over it It is life.

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You don't need no therapy, but just that step of getting, going to therapy,

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start just, just doing, just going through those steps.

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The first step, the first step is to, you know, get therapy into a,

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you know, into what you need. Yeah. Yeah. And just going back to getting your certification and going through

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medical school and everything that you had to do.

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We talked a few days ago about how you how you are the only black therapist in your department.

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You know, after after earning, you know, going through internships and,

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you know, training and getting your certification.

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What was that experience like for you when you're going in overcoming those

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challenges that you faced? In school, you had a few other people.

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And, you know, on top of just being Black in an all-white setting,

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there are sometimes you have those mixed co-workers that I feel like are able

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to blend in more with that background.

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And I feel like I stand out more.

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When it comes to be more noticeable when it comes to being Black, so to speak.

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So it's tough because I do deal a lot with imposter syndrome on,

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like, I don't believe I belong in these spaces.

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Like, what if I say something and I get fired because I, you know,

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said the wrong thing or I I tried to advocate for something or, you know,

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just some experiences that I've had in the past.

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I've tried to, you know, I was fresh out of grad school and basically ethical

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behavior was like at the top of our priority list when going out.

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And then we were taught to express our concerns. Like if we feel like there

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are things that are just not right and are not serving our patients or clients,

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you should speak up about it. And in the past, I have done that.

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And it has cost me to lose my job.

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And in this current position now, I made sure I went in headstrong,

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like, okay, I am a Black woman, and I want to know how I can maneuver this world

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of mental health in this organization,

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knowing as a Black woman, how do I do that?

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Right. I want to feel like I belong here. I've done the work. I've done everything.

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But still, I feel like it's just just something just isn't right. You know? Yeah.

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And I can understand that because you've earned that that right.

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You earned the certifications to be in that department to do your job and for

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you to be the only black person, you know, to be in that department.

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Like you said, you stand out. So you have like a kind of like a disadvantage, you know, being being, you know, being there.

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But like you said, you sometimes you have to stand up and say something and

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say, hey, this isn't right, especially, you know, if we're going to serve people, you know.

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And now you don't say, well, I'm going to serve this, you know,

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serve, you know, like a certain group of people like I'm going to filter out who I want to serve.

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It's you've earned that once you've earned that to me, once you earn that certification

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and, you know, you go through that process, you're there because you've earned that spot.

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You went through the process. You are good at what you do.

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You're here to serve people who need the help. So I think sometimes that,

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you know, we businesses or whatever,

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get, they kind of get, get away from serving people, custom,

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you know, we call that customer service or serving your, your,

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your, the, your group, you know what I'm saying?

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That sometimes we just people just get away from the

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actual mission yes and the

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mission is swept under the rug because

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of so many so much of the politics that goes on you

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know with racism discrimination you know you firing people because of whatever

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you know and and not giving you know qualify people a chance you know whether

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it's white black whatever it kind of just like this it's discouraging. It very much is.

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And since being where I am now, I'm starting to feel, I'm starting to feel myself

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more as an asset because the people in the population that we do serve look a lot like me.

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So I've seen like the literal,

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the breath of relief when some of the patients are like,

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they hop onto the, to the video chat for their sessions and they're like,

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and i'm like yeah yeah there you

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go we were we're here we were

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here you know yeah and that's this it's a great feeling because we we talked

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about this before that you don't see many black therapists black doctors people

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you know people who look like us in the in the medical field in the trauma field or people,

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you know, us. Being medical. Yeah.

16:49

We need more people. We are dying. Yeah. Of people who don't like us and they're

16:54

trying to take away the DEI. Yeah. And that's the, yeah, it's so, it's crazy that, and that's the other thing

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that I was going to get into. Yeah. It's crazy because they're trying

17:07

to take away DEI from colleges and from schools and everything, books,

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critical race theory, and not understanding us as a people, as a community,

17:21

because we're still fighting for what you see on my shirt. I know, that's right.

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We're still fighting for this every day, every day.

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And there was a and i shared with you

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a news report where lawmakers and

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one of the lawmakers is uh from north carolina

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and he was a part of the medical field or whatnot

17:43

and he was the i guess the figurehead of proposing

17:47

their they're all trying to propose this bill of trying

17:50

to get rid of dei because it's it's

17:54

they say they think it's too political critical this

17:56

is they're talking about oh well the students are learning about

17:59

critical race theory and it may impact the lives of

18:02

patients because that class time could be used to teach them something else

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and i'm like no this teaches your you know your future surgeons to be a decent

18:15

human being and having good bedside manner and understanding of the people that they're You're good.

18:21

You know? I got to give you that. I got to give you that. That's the truth.

18:27

I mean, if you're a doctor, nurse, or a therapist, you're there to serve people.

18:33

You know, people who look like you, people who may not look like you,

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people who need the help, that need the proper health care, the proper support.

18:43

Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

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I'm very, you know, I'm very proud for you to stand up for what you believe

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in, to stand up as a as a black woman in that field, to go back based on your

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merit, based on your certifications, your experience,

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because I can understand how hard it is to be there.

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And then having to stand on your principles when everything else is kind of

19:13

all over the place and unethical.

19:17

Yeah yeah it's hard it's hard especially when it's against your old people that

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look like you and it and i'm like i i can't just sit by and not say anything not like this happened.

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I got here i got to this point so i can be one of the voices that haven't been

19:37

heard and there are many voices that haven't been heard i can at least try to

19:41

shine a light on them and be like Like, hey, we also but also say we need more people.

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Please come and get degrees and get in these medical field jobs. We need them.

19:53

Definitely. Definitely. We do. We do. You know, you know, you ever heard about people?

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You may probably heard of this when you are, you know, growing up, be a doctor, be a lawyer.

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You know what i'm saying because they're they're not too many of us out in these

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in these particular careers and for you to be there and have people who look

20:19

like us to look at ourselves and say oh,

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there's a as a black a black therapist oh okay okay now i now it's so like people get comfortable,

20:30

now to someone who understands what you, you know, what we went through as a

20:36

community, but also understand and have like, what you might call it.

20:41

Trying to find the word, have the sympathy or, you know, to help people.

20:45

Yeah. Have that sympathy. We can speak the implicit language that a lot of people don't,

20:51

that a lot of people across races don't understand. Like I can do.

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And you know what I mean by that. So it's like just certain mannerisms. And like just the other day I had a patient

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and she had left her hair scarf on and she started talking.

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And then in the middle, she was like, oh, she's like, oh.

21:11

You never mind like you get it and i said girl i get it like what do you.

21:17

There's no need to do all of that i get why that's on top of your head we don't

21:20

have to have a conversation about it there's a whole lot of things that we that

21:24

they don't have to explain, because you get it you know yeah have um you know just have the the like i say

21:33

something it's almost like having something in common where you can you know

21:36

can speak you know you you know,

21:39

the, the lingo or you know, the mannerisms, it's kind of like having somebody

21:44

you can relate to, you know, to have that.

21:48

And it goes to my other question that, that I have for you pretty much like the,

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the, the last question, what advice you have for people who want to get get

22:02

into therapy or getting,

22:05

or, or, or they want to get into social work, you know, to work with like trauma,

22:11

trauma, you know, trauma related issues and work with, with,

22:14

you know, people dealing with HIV AIDS at risk,

22:18

you know, what do you, what advice, what advice you would give for people who

22:22

want to get into you and feel you're in?

22:25

I would say don't do it.

22:29

Don't come into this field for the money. Don't do it. Because if you're not genuine and you don't like dealing with people

22:40

or dealing with them at their lowest, things like that, don't do it.

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People can tell when people aren't being genuine when their providers are not genuine with them.

22:51

And that's regardless of any race. Don't do it if you don't care.

22:57

And also, just do it. Like, really, just do it.

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And if you want to focus mainly on therapy, you can become a, oh, it's the LPC.

23:12

What does that mean? License. Oh, gosh, I'm drawing a blank. You'd be LPC, license, oh, my gosh,

23:21

I'm drawing a blank. They're counselors. Their whole degree is in counseling. counseling and or you

23:26

can get a psychology psychiatry degree they also

23:30

do mental health things like that social work

23:33

is just a little bit more i would say you have more options in doing things

23:38

so there are different options like social work is not the only thing that you

23:43

can do to get in to help any of these populations and just be dedicated and

23:50

do it for the right reasons, because if not it's your it's not

23:55

going to be best and then you're going to get frustrated and the

23:57

people that you're going to work with are going to get frustrated and

24:01

then we are essentially creating or feeding into the issue like if we come into

24:09

a contact with a therapist who just you who seems like they're only there for

24:13

the check but they're not likely to come back to therapy at all after that interaction.

24:19

So if you're not into it, if you don't want to do it, if you don't want to get into it.

24:25

Have a passion for it then just don't do it but if

24:28

you do by all means i'm happy

24:31

to have you as my colleague connect you know we can do all the things and i

24:39

i don't mind helping a younger black generation with that process i like i think

24:47

i would love to do and be a mentor like do mentorships Yeah.

24:51

It's just I don't I have not come in contact with others like me who are willing

24:59

and wanting to so that are young. So I don't I don't know.

25:04

Now, that's something that, you know, that's that's a good idea to have,

25:10

you know, have some have a mentorship where you have representation. representation.

25:14

And just like with the Black Expo, where we met and where we first talked.

25:20

You know, having, you know, if you was at the Black Expo, let's say events or,

25:25

you know, organizations that you are out in front of people and they come to

25:30

you and say, hey, what do you do? And then you can explain what you, you know, explain what you do.

25:35

And, you know, sometimes times that light bulb comes on

25:38

it's like oh oh you're you know is it

25:42

you know some people may even get

25:45

that uh to get that idea like oh you you work with like

25:48

you deal with you you know trauma you know therapy and and people at risk and

25:53

sometimes people may be going through that situation and it may need you know

25:59

that that help or may need that support so i think it'll be a a good idea to,

26:05

you know, have like a mentorship because you're already, you're in your field.

26:10

You, you know, you're a black woman in that field that you've earned to get into.

26:15

And it may inspire other black women or black men to get into,

26:20

you know, get into the medical field itself, get into trauma therapy, being a doctor.

26:27

It's just that having more representation of us, especially when we go out and

26:31

we go go through the process, the medical school, the internships,

26:36

the certifications to be in that field.

26:41

Because I believe that things work when you have the best people,

26:46

best people in, in there, there, in that space.

26:53

And if they're, yeah, especially if they're, if they're a black and and they

26:58

have earned that, they should be in that field and there should be more of us.

27:02

And not space and not being unapologetic about being there.

27:09

Bless you, bless you. Thank you. But I would love to see more black men in mental health.

27:16

I would love, love, love, love to see that.

27:20

That is another thing, too. Yeah. Love to see that.

27:24

I've met one black male social worker.

27:29

He's not even a social worker. He's an LPC, I believe.

27:33

And once I found out he was a therapist, I was just like, oh,

27:37

my God. Am I seeing something that's unreal?

27:40

Like, I am just so shocked. But, like, I'm like, we need more every time I see

27:45

a black person that looks like me. Let me clarify that.

27:50

That looks like me in these settings, I am over the moon.

27:56

And I'm not to say, you know, my Caramel brothers and sisters,

27:59

you know what I mean? I love y'all. You know.

28:06

The darker skins, like, you know, we got our things within our Black community. I hate that.

28:13

Yeah, I hate that type of talk.

28:17

It just divides us even more. You know what I'm saying? You got dark skin versus light skin.

28:24

I mean, when I signed, like if I look at an application, it doesn't say,

28:29

okay, if you're a light skinned black or dark skinned black,

28:31

it says black or African-American. That's it. I don't understand that type of talk. I don't engage in it.

28:39

If you're Black, you're Black. I'm sorry.

28:42

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

28:45

So it's just, I just can't wait to see. I would just love to see more of us

28:50

in these fields, taking up these spaces.

28:53

Because our patients and our community needs it. Yeah, we sure do.

28:57

Do we we we we and

29:00

you know you and then for you to

29:03

be out there too so people can see that we

29:06

have you know black doctors black medical staff there knowing that we are also

29:15

in these fields so people can you know people can either get the help or it's

29:21

like you said people can get into that field Because you see,

29:24

if you see more of us in something that is,

29:27

you know, we're breaking the mold,

29:30

breaking that glass ceiling and you see more of us there, it's going to inspire

29:34

other people, you know, younger people to get into that field because they see

29:40

us work to get there and they see what's possible.

29:44

Yeah yeah i definitely would

29:47

love to see more more more black people in

29:50

in these in in the field especially black men

29:54

in you know what i'm saying but you know we

29:56

go through this the the mental health and the therapy and the at risk and all

30:01

of that so we need to see more of more black men ourselves too yeah in that

30:06

field yeah absolutely yeah yeah but i i really do appreciate this this conversation, Angel.

30:14

I really do appreciate this conversation because it's good to talk to someone who is professional.

30:21

In that field to give insight. Yes. Yeah. So I really, I'm thankful for you

30:27

to, for, for coming on to the show. You're a part of what we call the podcast family.

30:33

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I also want to thank you for the work that you've done and the work that you're doing,

30:47

especially in your field, in your in your job when you because you're you're

30:54

helping people who may be ashamed or maybe afraid.

30:59

And you're giving that space for them to get the right type of assistance that they need. Absolutely.

31:08

I thank you for that. I'm very, very, very proud of what you're doing.

31:15

And please continue to fight the good fight, continue to stand strong and keep that passion.

31:23

Oh, yeah. Keep the passion. Like you said, if you have a passion for it, then you should do it.

31:29

Because sometimes it's not always about money. The money will come, you know, throughout.

31:34

But once you're passionate about something, you should go and do it.

31:38

It doesn't mean you feel like you're working. Yeah, there you go.

31:43

That day at Black Expo, I didn't feel like I was working at all.

31:48

Yeah, I was just like, I'm giving out information that a lot of people don't

31:51

know about, especially with HIV.

31:54

I feel like a lot more people in the Black community are more accepting of mental

32:00

health nowadays, but we're becoming better at it.

32:04

But HIV, we are still like, and I'm like, why is that exactly up in our community?

32:13

And this is the reason we don't talk about it. It's just going to keep doing what it's doing.

32:18

Nobody is properly educated about HIV.

32:22

And I just don't understand. it just yeah

32:26

it's yeah yeah yeah it's

32:29

because it's affecting us very it's

32:32

affecting us very very seriously and

32:36

yeah what because what things

32:39

that people can do to educate themselves or or or protect themselves when it

32:45

comes to hiv aids get tested get tested get tested every three months But get

32:53

tested every three months, guys, okay?

32:57

Especially if you're sexually active. I don't care if you're having sex with one person or 20 people.

33:05

Let it be consensual. Let it be safe. And go get tested every three months.

33:11

HIV and STDs every three months.

33:15

It is so important. and having a conversation with your partner about testing is also very important.

33:24

If you bring up testing and they act like it's a taboo and like,

33:31

oh, why are you asking me that? And they give like a very immature response, you probably should not be having

33:37

sex with this individual, okay? Also, just using condoms, using protection, stay protected.

33:45

Yes, stay protected and go get tested every three months. There are free clinics usually in the area.

33:52

You can always Google search it. There's a lot of grants. There's like DHECs

33:56

in your area. They do free testing.

34:00

Please go and get tested. Don't rely on anybody else's test records either.

34:06

Get your own test. Yes, yes. Yes. Know your, know your status. Know your status.

34:14

Yeah. And be safe. Be safe out here. Yeah.

34:18

Have sex as much as you want, but just be safe. That is how I give my,

34:23

my sexual health lesson. Yeah. As long as it's consensual and safe and we're wearing condoms,

34:33

do whatever. Right. Right.

34:37

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely agree. Yeah, I agree.

34:43

Yeah. So I thank you for coming on to the show. I really do. Thank you for your time.

34:48

Thank you for the work that you're doing. And just thank you for being out in

34:53

the community and just standing strong on what you believe in and your passion.

34:58

I'm just just really impressed of of of yourself and, you know, your intelligence.

35:05

I mean, thank you. Thank you so

35:07

much for being on the show. Thank you for having me. I do appreciate it.

35:38

We just created. So yes. So make sure you guys check that out.

35:43

So until next time, this is Derek peace.

35:47

One love y'all. This is the brothers in company podcast.