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Music.

0:23

You for listening to Bruce Clues. We are a true crime podcast and we've been drinking.

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Well, I had a sip, but 9.8, so I've had about 5% of alcohol.

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Anyways, we'd like to talk about crime. We like to talk true crime,

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talk about stories and we split cases.

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So I'll take a case and then And Lisa will take the next week or week and a

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half or two weeks, depending on when we can record. I thought you were just talking about beer. We split cases. Or we also split

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cases of beer, not usually in one sitting, but it's been known to potentially

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occurred. I will not confirm nor deny.

1:06

So yeah. So welcome. Thanks for joining. And we're excited you're here.

1:11

Like, share, put some comments, whatever you feel like doing. And let's get started.

1:18

I can't get with it tonight. You said like, share, and I thought you were going

1:22

to go into a share song, like a quote from share.

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And I was waiting for it. And then I was like, wait.

1:28

That's why I was smiling, waiting for it. Like share always says.

1:32

Do you believe in life after love?

1:36

Do you believe? Yeah, that's our theme in this podcast.

1:41

Yes. So do you watch Unsolved Mysteries?

1:45

Yes. Do you watch the Netflix one? Not regularly. know

1:48

okay so but in this case i it

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just pulled me in it's from the netflix series if

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you hear a crazy dog that's my little

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loki just just add act like

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there's a dog in the story and that's background noise so yes

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this case is from the new unsolved mysteries it's

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from i believe season three mystery at

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mile marker 45 okay getting

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into it on july 12 2015 the

2:19

valanti family which included 18 year old tiffany

2:22

valanti attended a graduation party for tiffany's cousin across the street from

2:26

their home in maize landing new jersey there was nothing unusual about that

2:31

day they had a great time they were there for a few hours little after 9 p.m

2:35

one of tiffany's friends called tiffany's mom, Diane, and said she needed to talk to her.

2:40

Tiffany's father, Stephen, also came. Tiffany's friend was very upset,

2:45

yelling Tiffany stole and used her debit card.

2:48

Tiffany denied this, later admitted that she did in fact use the card for an $86 charge.

2:54

Diane left Tiffany outside, kind of scolding her. They kind of got into it,

2:59

saying, we didn't raise you this way. She said she was going to go get her father.

3:03

So she left her outside at 9.28 p.m. Tiffany was gone when they returned.

3:08

They went back to the party, started walking up and down the street.

3:11

They couldn't find her. No one saw her leaving. There's like 20, 30 cars on the street at this point. So there's a lot of people.

3:19

Stephen spots Tiffany's phone right off the side of the road in front of their house.

3:23

So Tiffany, like many any teenagers was always glued to her phone.

3:26

She even showered with it, he said. So something wasn't right about this. Instant bad feelings.

3:32

Tiffany was spotted on the deer camp her father had in the yard walking away

3:35

from the house at 9.28 p.m.

3:38

On the camera, her head's turned like she's walking towards something or someone.

3:43

So you see her walking and then she's turned looking to her left.

3:48

And at the edge of the camera in the corner, you could see headlights.

3:52

So it's like Somebody might have called her name or she was expecting somebody.

3:57

So she was walking away from the house towards the street? Yes.

4:00

Okay. Away from the house towards the street, towards the cars or something.

4:05

They couldn't find her and no one saw her leaving. She wasn't a small kid. She was a 6'2 athlete.

4:10

She was a big athletic girl. She had muscle. 6'2? 6'2. Wow. 18 years old,

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just getting out of high school. Good for her. Legs for days. Yeah, but she was so pretty too. Her face and smile.

4:23

I think that's what drew me in. It's just like she was kind of magnetic.

4:29

So it was unlike Tiffany to take off by herself. Even if she's upset,

4:33

she was scared to death of the dark, her uncle said. Really?

4:36

On one of the many walks up and down the street, Stephen, her dad,

4:40

spots. Oh, I already said that. Cut.

4:43

But I think I skipped that first thing. So let's go back.

4:47

On one of the many walks up and down the street, Stephen spots Tiffany's phone

4:50

right off the side of the road. Like many teenagers, Tiffany was always glued to her phone. She even showered

4:56

with it, so something wasn't right. At 9.29 p.m., her parents and dog came out and she was gone.

5:03

So this is 9.28. Her mom goes in the house. 9.29, they come out.

5:07

She's already gone. One minute? One minute.

5:10

And they show that on the deer cam? Yeah, you can see her walking away.

5:15

I believe so. So I know they have the time. I wasn't. That seems really specific.

5:20

So they must have. They must have. Yeah. Yeah. I think it does record timing,

5:23

but you see her walking away and then you see the dog and her parents standing

5:26

there, like looking towards the street, like what the hell.

5:30

So it seemed to be a close knit family. A bunch of them live close by her uncles

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immediately joined in on a search. They went to Tiffany's grandma's house, which was about a half a mile away.

5:40

No Tiffany checked with friends. It was midnight when her uncle came across

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an access road next to the railroad tracks about three miles from the Volante family home.

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It was a full-on crime scene. There were police officers roping it off,

5:54

saying someone was hit, possibly a female.

5:57

It was under the jurisdiction of the New Jersey Transit, so the Galloway Township

6:01

police officers were just there to help secure and protect the scene.

6:04

Tiffany's uncle is asking, just praying it's not Tiffany. so

6:08

a transit officer asks if he could identify her and sure

6:11

enough it was tiffany okay so just

6:15

to recap that's how much longer after this

6:19

9 30 is about when they last saw her yep around midnight they midnight it was

6:26

already a crime scene with police there so they start searching immediately

6:29

yeah and three hours later they

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find her and they started miles from the house only three miles Wowee.

6:36

I think it was like 2.6, so less than three, but yeah.

6:40

Crazy. At 2.30 in the morning, Tiffany's uncle broke the devastating news to her parents.

6:45

As the shock eventually wears off, they start to ask what happened.

6:48

How in the world did she end up there? The Next Day article is coming out saying Tiffany committed suicide by throwing

6:53

herself in front of the train. Her parents refused to accept that. Tiffany received a scholarship to play volleyball.

7:01

She was going to be a middle starter, which doesn't happen. A freshman as a starter.

7:04

Charter she was making plans with friends to play softball

7:07

the next wednesday go to grand adventure or great

7:10

adventure which i assume is a theme park i didn't look it up but

7:13

great adventure kind of sounds like one of those smaller theme parks the next

7:18

morning she was someone who loved life was close with her friends and family

7:21

the same night of the graduation party she spoke to her cousin about how excited

7:25

she was about the next chapter of her life she had new school clothes she had

7:29

had things prepared for her move. She was ready.

7:31

It was less than 12 hours from the time Tiffany was hit by the train to the

7:35

time the New Jersey Transit Authority determined it was a suicide.

7:39

Only 12 hours to wrap it all up in a neat little bow and just close the case and be done with it.

7:46

Here's what we know. It was a very dark stretch of track at 11.12 p.m.,

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where Tiffany was stuck by the train.

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The impact on the lower left side was close to the tracks.

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There were two crew members on board that evening. They each signed a report

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stating that Tiffany dove in front of the train.

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Put under oath six days later, the senior operating engineer then flips his

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story and says he was talking to the conductor with his back turned and never actually saw her.

8:16

The student engineer said he didn't see Tiffany until they were on top of her.

8:20

Under oath, he sees her a half a mile away, then a quarter mile away.

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Then this person from the woods jumps onto the tracks.

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Just like with an airplane, there's a black box recorder which shows how fast

8:33

they were going, if a brake was used, etc., all the mechanical things needed

8:38

in the event of collision. From the time they sounded the horn to the moment of impact was 4.1 seconds.

8:45

They were going 80 miles an hour not to

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be too graphic but if you're hit by a train going

8:52

80 miles an hour you're gonna be dismembered

8:55

so could the student engineer and

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his state of shock gotten confused saying he

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saw tiffany dive or jump when in reality she was

9:04

falling apart on impact kind of like there's

9:08

movement and you're in shock you're confused that

9:11

was traumatizing say yeah he saw something we just

9:14

don't know he can't confirm what it is yes yeah

9:17

could she have already been dead on the tracks when

9:21

tiffany left the house at 9 29 p.m she's shown on the deer cam wearing a white

9:25

headband messy bun black shirt jeans shorts that are almost white and flats

9:31

she was found without her headband without her shoes without her clothes she

9:37

was found in a A sports bra and black underwear.

9:39

None of the clothing or shoes were found at the scene. That's, that's, there you go.

9:45

It's one thing if the impact knocks your shoes off, but I don't know of impact

9:50

addressing you, like neatly taking your clothes off. Correct.

9:53

And not being anywhere on the scene. And not, I don't know the statistic,

9:59

but how many people get undressed in order to kill themselves. Yeah.

10:06

It's not like it was freezing and she would have had hypothermia right away

10:11

where that was the case where it's like she's walking through the snow and then

10:15

you start to get hot with hypothermia right before you die.

10:18

But it wouldn't have been the case. This is like a grad party.

10:22

So it's what, May? Or no, this says July. So summertime.

10:26

So no matter where it is, I'm feeling like, oh, it's New Jersey. Yes.

10:30

Summer in New Jersey is nice. Yeah. Yeah.

10:35

The impact site is 2.6 miles from the Volante family home.

10:38

It was a mile from the closest intersection and very dark. Remember,

10:42

the point of impact was a very dark stretch of track.

10:45

So Tiffany wasn't a fan of the dark. Why would she walk that far in the dark,

10:49

barefoot over sharp rocks and railroad to end her life there when she was seemingly

10:55

fine earlier and excited about life earlier that day?

10:58

I understand with depression, it doesn't always show. People wear masks from

11:02

time to time, but the inconsistencies in the statements and the facts just don't

11:06

add up if you look beyond that. It's a suspicious death. Why was New Jersey Transit Authority handling it?

11:12

This was not their arena. Galloway police officers were there. New Jersey Transit officers were there.

11:17

Her uncle showed up and was allowed through. People were all over the scene.

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It was never handled in the way a potential homicide scene should have been

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been handled. No rape kit was performed. A full autopsy wasn't performed.

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No organs were tested to them. It was an open shot case of suicide. Let's all move on.

11:34

They did run a toxicology report and no drugs or alcohol were found in the system,

11:39

which the medical examiner said made her say that they should have ruled her

11:46

death undetermined based just on that.

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They should have changed it from suicide to undetermined based on the fact that

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the tox run was screened.

11:57

I guess just because it's such a crazy thing to do, you would think it doesn't

12:02

add up and she doesn't have a history of mental illness, so she must have been on something.

12:07

A lot of puzzle pieces. It's weird.

12:11

Tiffany had a girlfriend from Philly. They broke up the Friday before she died.

12:15

It was mutual, seemed amicable. her mom

12:18

right through the messages at the time fine tiffany

12:22

was already seeing someone else happy with the change her family

12:25

returns to the track demanding to find answers the

12:28

authorities were not willing to give them her uncles this

12:33

is going to get a little graphic so let me ask something real quick uh-huh so

12:37

tiffany had a girlfriend so tiffany was gay was she do they they know if she

12:42

was out i think so because she was posting i believe so it doesn't say for sure,

12:49

but i know she was posting like on social media happiest

12:53

i've been in a while and stuff and yeah about her

12:56

about kind of falling for this new person that she just

12:59

met even though it's it's very quick but also teenagers

13:02

so yeah do they think that it could have i

13:05

mean you may get to this but could it possibly have been a hate crime

13:08

i don't know they don't ever go there

13:11

yeah but not a lot of investigation is done

13:14

i know her parents are still actively on the case and they have a private investigator

13:19

but beyond that like the police are not they're done okay open shut to them

13:25

so her family has to take it upon themselves to get the answers that they need This is not right.

13:33

Her uncles were picking up pieces of skull and teeth from the tracks.

13:38

So she wasn't fully recovered? No. No.

13:42

I hate this. Why does this happen? This is awful.

13:45

Her uncles, that like the same uncle that had to look at her and identify her,

13:49

which said, he's so glad his brother could not because he would have fallen apart.

13:56

Yeah, it's a mess. But her family is left to pick up the pieces.

14:02

Quite literally. Yes. They found her bracelet, which her mother still has.

14:06

Her mother wore for a long time. She was wearing that when she died.

14:10

That's you think you need that they found bloody

14:12

gloves bloody gloves yeah with

14:16

whose blood on it i don't know they didn't test it they what they

14:19

did no dna testing could have been

14:21

from the people that officers at the scene sure they could have been anybody

14:26

but who knows it's crime scene you don't know yes who the hell is in charge

14:31

of cleanup there like i'd like to talk to them There's no apologies that we

14:38

know of. Nothing. That's horrible. And they stand by the sheriff. I think it was Sheriff Abernathy of that police

14:47

department or something. Was standing by. Nope, that was something else I watched today. Never mind.

14:53

Sorry, Sheriff. But still involved in some shady stuff. Just not this case.

14:59

The other shady sheriff. The other shady. We're talking to you.

15:03

But they yeah they still are just

15:06

like no it's a suicide and we did nothing wrong cool so

15:11

they never found her clothes headband or shoes along the tracks and they're

15:16

finding everything so this is weird three weeks after tiffany's death her mother

15:20

was walking down the road tiffany would have taken from home to the impact site

15:24

she finds tiffany's shoes and just collapses there right off off the road.

15:31

It's like, and her shoes were about a foot apart. Her mom said,

15:35

it looks like somebody just, they were by a tree.

15:37

She's like, it looks like somebody just picked her up out of her shoes.

15:41

Which, I mean, for a 6'2 girl, like this person that picked her up would have

15:44

had to be also large or had a gun to her or something, like some kind of other force used.

15:52

But yes, her shoes were not so much neatly placed. I mean, it looks like she

15:57

just left them or somebody threw them and they landed like that.

16:03

It's hard to say, but they're there. Right. So it looked like they were in a stance, like you could just walk up

16:11

to them and put your feet in them and go. Yep. Facing the same way.

16:15

And then so as her mom collapses next to the shoes, she finds her white headband.

16:22

And this was almost two miles away from where Tiffany was struck by the train.

16:27

So the New Jersey Transit Authority did come and take pictures,

16:31

bag the items, but nobody else ever heard anything from it. No DNA testing was ever done.

16:36

After scouring the woods, after that, around that area, the only item they have

16:41

been unable to find is Tiffany's shorts.

16:44

They're still missing to this day. the place

16:47

tiffany was struck by the train was an isolated area and

16:50

between the tracks and a busy road is

16:53

this kind of isolated dumping ground in the woods there's couches

16:57

broken furniture it's just please stop doing that yeah

17:00

don't dump your stuff in the woods in the woods take it to the

17:03

dump just right stop please stop okay buy nothing it or if you can't like yeah

17:08

give it post it on facebook for free right jeez anyone will pick that up yes

17:14

so this This nice little serene landing in the woods was taken over by broken furniture,

17:21

which her uncle was saying it makes kind of like the perfect murder area because

17:28

you have the train over here and you have white noise from this road over here

17:31

and you can't really hear much else.

17:34

And it's dark as the Dickens. Dark, no lights.

17:37

So at night it's crazy. Yeah.

17:40

Which I hope they clean that up by now because otherwise we're just giving people

17:43

murder information. Please don't do that. Don't go there.

17:46

It's cleaned up. You're not allowed there anymore. Lots of spotlights.

17:49

Spotlights are on the space. Now they are monitoring it. And cameras that work.

17:53

You know what? I bet Tiffany's family is monitoring it and you will be caught.

18:00

Okay. Now I'm getting too heated. I'm getting like personal.

18:03

Just getting hot. Listen. I am actually very. Oh.

18:06

I'm in the garage here. Fly is buzzing around.

18:10

It's very nice, people. It's going to be summer in Florida, you know? There was a lot of blood on the

18:18

tracks at the point of impact, and that's consistent with the body already being

18:22

on the tracks and bleeding out. Because if you're a stroke, you're not going to leave a large puddle,

18:28

not to be too graphic, but you see where it's going.

18:32

Like, you just, it doesn't leave a large puddle.

18:35

So that doesn't make sense. And the medical examiner's report of the findings

18:39

on the body, again, a little bit graphic.

18:43

So if you don't like it, tune out for a few minutes.

18:48

They said the arms and legs were cut from the torso, not ripped away, but cut and separated.

18:54

This is consistent with her arms being laid out above her head and her legs

18:59

draped over the side of the tracks being cut.

19:02

So somebody kind of knew or thought

19:06

about that's what would happen her feet were attached to her

19:09

legs her hands were attached to her arms she was laid down

19:12

on the tracks her feet didn't show any signs of walking

19:14

two miles barefoot across the kind of terrain she was walking on that doesn't

19:19

make sense there's so many inconsistencies her parents set up a hotline and

19:24

twenty thousand dollar reward to get information from the public a convenience

19:28

store worker called and said he he heard three employees talking about Tiffany's death.

19:33

They weren't talking about anything specific, just like it was a big deal in that town.

19:39

So not like they really knew anything, knew too much of anything.

19:43

But they did let a few things slip. So they brought this convenience store worker in and interviewed him under oath.

19:50

One of the employees was at the party that Tiffany was last seen at and referenced an argument.

19:56

So this the convenience store worker is saying this to the police.

20:00

So it's kind of like telephone at this point so you're saying you know can't take that,

20:07

he wasn't he wasn't part of the argument yeah

20:11

he's saying he was at the party where he saw the argument occur or list heard

20:14

it the employee yes was at the party saw the argument occur he heard the employee

20:20

talking about it with other employees so there was an argument between tiffany

20:25

and her friend and then tiffany and her mother about the stolen debit card so that checks out.

20:30

They said when the argument ended, she was picked up by somebody, two females and a male.

20:35

The convenience store worker said he heard that they had her strip at gunpoint to humiliate her.

20:45

So that is something that gets very detailed. It's like, oh,

20:48

I don't really know anything. This is what they did. How do you know that? Then you must have known who took

20:54

her because they drove her away. Unless they did it right there on the street, then more people would have have

20:59

seen because her parents came out a minute later so if people if this guy was

21:04

at a party and knows all this then he must know who took her or the convenience store worker,

21:12

knows and he just doesn't want to say because something that's very specific

21:16

i feel like i don't know the police brought in these three employees that the

21:21

convenience store worker said had information one after another.

21:24

They were like, me? Huh?

21:27

That's insane. I don't know anything. What were their genders?

21:32

I believe they were all guys, all the workers.

21:37

They were all guys. It wasn't like two females and a male. Nope. So three guys.

21:43

Almost eight years later, what happened that night is still a mystery,

21:46

but the New Jersey Transit Authority had upheld their determination that Tiffany died by suicide.

21:51

If you have any information about what happened to Tiffany Valente,

21:55

please call the family hotline at 609-318-4847, 7.

22:00

Submit a tip at unsolved.com or contact the law offices of Paul DeMatta at 609-926-3300

22:09

to help give her parents some closure.

22:12

Crime on tap. It's time. What are you drinking?

22:17

Oh, I am drinking Goon Squad Juicy Hazy Double IPA.

22:24

It's an Imperial Indian Pale Ale with 9.8%.

22:30

Guys i'm feeling good feeling good

22:34

it's out of lakeland it's super juicy delicious i almost picked that one because

22:39

it was easier to say i am drinking einstock algared algard einstock algard sure

22:47

i don't know there's there's like accents and stuff i i don't know how to exactly pronounced it,

22:53

but that's how it's spelled in American, in English.

22:56

Yeah. This looks like... Wait, where is it, Brood? Maybe it's like... Oh.

23:04

Well it's always stratford connecticut stratford

23:08

connecticut get out of here that's where i'm from stop it

23:12

are you serious well bridgeport but yes stratford

23:15

i didn't mean

23:18

to do that welcome home wow thank you so

23:22

what's the name of the brewery then

23:25

i haven't seen a brewery brewed by einstein

23:28

beer company einstein beer company

23:31

i like they have their facebook their twitter their instagram huh we'll check

23:37

that out their website einstein beer is it good it's very good yeah it's an

23:42

ale brewed with coriander orange peel it's a white ale it's 5.2 percent So I'm feeling just right.

23:50

It's refreshingly drinkable. Yes.

23:54

Touch of oats. Well, I got this mix because I know you're not a huge IPA fan.

24:01

I do like the Juicy's though. Okay. Because I wasn't sure. I like the Juicy's

24:05

too. And I almost got like the mix pack.

24:08

But this one called to me. I don't know. It's such a different label.

24:13

And I'm glad it did. Stratford. Yeah. I did not even see where it was from.

24:15

I thought it was in the local section. Clearly i was in a rush clearly i was

24:22

like a viking a viking bearded guy profile

24:26

of him on the cover it's like a it's like

24:29

a white but not really white it's like almost like a creamy

24:32

grayish white can with like

24:35

all the print is in like blue it's pretty

24:38

it's different it's appealing to the eye it is striking that's why

24:41

i pick things out too when i don't really know just like like the

24:44

flavors like the label boom i feel like people

24:47

that put a lot of time in the labels means that they care about the product

24:50

yes i don't know there's something there so great okay wow so tiffany tiffany

24:57

man tell me what your theories are so i have read things that say they believe.

25:05

Somebody picked her up must have

25:08

been somebody she knew because maybe

25:12

she willingly got in the the car because you only

25:15

have like a minute so it's minute

25:18

situation it's a minute and there's so many people like

25:21

across the street there's her parents must

25:25

have been somebody she knew and then maybe she she wouldn't toss her phone maybe

25:31

at the point she got in the car she realized she was in trouble they tossed

25:36

her phone maybe it was multiple people and they were like now we got They threw

25:41

her phone out and then they took off to go do whatever they were going to do.

25:44

She gets in the car and they pull out a gun. Yes.

25:47

And they toss her phone. Yeah. And take off. Yeah.

25:52

I mean, with all of the things, she was definitely dead before she was placed on the railroad tracks.

26:01

It's the only thing that makes sense. Or she was unconscious.

26:04

Yeah. Because if she was, I mean, I don't know, like, I would think it would

26:08

take a proper autopsy, like someone who knew what they were doing.

26:12

Yeah. To like tell for sure. Or maybe not. I don't know.

26:15

But I feel like blood doesn't act the same way when you're alive versus when you're dead.

26:20

Right. And then, unfortunately, a few days after they found Tiffany, she was cremated.

26:27

So they can't even, not that it would do much now, but at the time.

26:33

Yeah, like, did, I know. And, like, you could, like, how much was going on with her head?

26:39

Like, you said that there was some, obviously some trauma from the train.

26:43

But were there any other spots that looked inconsistent with being hit by a

26:49

train? I mean, I feel like a train is such a violent situation for the body.

26:54

So that would be really tough. Yeah. So and someone the other thing that got me was the fact that like someone knew the area.

27:05

They in this short amount of time, they did not happen across a dark space in

27:12

on the train tracks. Like someone grew up here.

27:15

Someone knew the area. area someone's driven

27:18

by this area before to the

27:22

point where they know they knew where to go they

27:25

knew where to go and they knew kind of what they

27:28

were doing i i i mean this is like to me very obvious that she was murdered

27:34

it all signs point to being murdered it's so suspicious that i don't know how

27:40

it took 12 hours to rule it a suicide like that in itself is suspicious did

27:45

the person and work for New Jersey Transit Authority.

27:48

Like, I don't want to point fingers at people that I don't even know,

27:52

that I don't know if the police have talked to. I'm just saying, like, trying to make sense of what doesn't make sense.

27:59

It just really doesn't. And then also, I don't know who, it seems like the police

28:05

didn't interview anybody, to be honest, because it wasn't an interview.

28:09

It wasn't an investigation. It was, this is a suicide. And then when they reopened the case on appeal or

28:17

something, they determined that, no, it's still a suicide.

28:19

They didn't do any further investigating, really.

28:23

So is Tiffany a woman of color? No.

28:27

She's white. She's white. Her parents seem to be a little well off,

28:33

like they were upper class white.

28:35

I don't know if they were super rich, but, you know, well off.

28:38

So well off white family. Okay. But Tiffany was stealing money, so that's a thing, too. And I think I heard

28:45

something about she also has stolen from her mom.

28:50

So then you wonder, was she on drugs that they didn't know about?

28:55

But that couldn't be it either because she was so into her volleyball career.

28:58

She was an athlete, so you don't mess with our drugs, you would think.

29:03

Yeah, but kids are sly. Yeah. I mean, if you have an addiction,

29:08

you can milk it for a long time and hide stuff.

29:11

So that, yeah, I would say to get drugs and yeah, honestly, that line of thinking

29:17

isn't that far fetched because why else would you need money?

29:21

I mean, if she's, you know, good kid and parents seem pretty nice,

29:28

like she needed money, like her mom was berating her saying like you can have

29:33

money. Yeah. If you need it. But she's using it for something that she doesn't want to tell them about. Right. Right.

29:39

So unless she has like a serious shoe addiction, I see you, Tiffany.

29:44

Yeah. I'll tell my husband. He was on package. Hi, girl. Girl, I see you.

29:51

You know, perhaps it is something like that. And that would mean that, you know, she knew them.

29:59

She was at a party. She's continuing to party.

30:02

She had stole money. like when she

30:06

took this debit card like did they determine that

30:09

the money was on her or she had spent the

30:11

money i heard some things saying that she

30:16

charged 86 dollars so charged it so charged 86 dollars and then i i heard she

30:23

finally admitted it to her mom but then i also heard that her mom saw her slip

30:29

the debit card into her back pocket and that's how she got caught So either way,

30:33

like, I think she had the debit card and it seemed like it was charged.

30:36

Okay. So she bought something that she could charge. So you can't normally buy drugs.

30:41

Yeah. So the girlfriend is ex-girlfriend's Philly.

30:45

It seemed like a friendly breakup. So that would have been really strange.

30:50

I don't know how long they were together, but high school.

30:53

So I mean, the whole the whole story about the multiple people.

30:56

This does sound like multiple people. Yes. because Tiffany was again athletic

31:02

and large and she would have

31:05

fought one person and but she wouldn't

31:08

fight a gun wouldn't fight a gun wouldn't fight and wouldn't

31:12

and one person like you're saying might not be

31:15

able to like carry her to the train track so yeah I think that would take multiple

31:19

people yes and if you think about it like when you carry a body like there's

31:24

you're not really especially if they're unconscious or like already dead like

31:27

you're not really caring so you would hold their arms and their legs so like

31:31

the fact that she was splayed out on the train tracks like that,

31:34

could tell you like you know. What happened in terms of like complete the story yeah

31:40

and who kills himself like laying down like

31:43

that for a train i don't know there's just the whole like right

31:47

yeah it's like somebody was carrying her like

31:50

you said arms and legs like one person backing up

31:53

put her down the other person dropped her feet and that's

31:56

where they left her that's it yeah yeah it

31:59

just doesn't and i can't imagine the train folks

32:02

watching the train track all night

32:05

long no and especially a very dark stretch

32:08

of track do they watch it all night long i mean

32:11

they could i think they're supposed to but okay

32:14

so they're gonna cover their tracks but maybe

32:20

that's why the one guy maybe they're supposed to always be like one

32:23

set of eyes because there's two people so maybe you

32:26

give your break your eyes a break for a minute and

32:29

then the other guy turned around i don't know

32:32

yeah but i was wondering the friend

32:35

showed up to talk to tiffany's mom she

32:38

was mad enough to call tiffany's mom and go

32:42

directly to her mom and say this is

32:46

what happened she was upset it was

32:49

a big fight outside was her

32:53

friend upset enough you know to i don't

32:57

know i really don't want to say anything about that because

33:00

that's just i know and that seems so like a

33:03

such a and i know they're kids so like everything's disproportionately.

33:06

Exacerbated right it's super dramatic but i feel like you know that's such a.

33:14

To hurt to hurt someone i i i don't know i i like the you know if we're just

33:22

speculating here I like the drug theory.

33:25

Because people who do drugs, those are the folks that, you know,

33:29

especially if they're dealing and they're owed money and maybe this isn't the

33:34

first time and maybe there's some envy going on because she's got a bright future.

33:40

She's going to go on with her life.

33:43

You know, she's whatever. There could be some issues there.

33:46

That is more emotive to me, you know, than something like 80 bucks.

33:52

Right. Maybe she didn't even do drugs because her tox screen was clear.

33:57

Maybe this was going to be her first time and she was just kind of like,

34:02

I'm going to do this before I go away and like get serious in college with my scholarship.

34:07

And this seems like a good time to do it because I'm pissed off and just got in this fight and.

34:14

I don't know. But she would have had to plant the seed before she went to go

34:17

talk to her mom. She would have had to because the fight happened.

34:19

She left the party at like 9.15 and the fight happened between that and like

34:24

9.20. Man, this timeline is tight. I don't, I, I'll be honest with you.

34:31

Something seems squirrely about the one minute timeline.

34:35

Yeah. I mean, and all things can, all kinds of things can happen.

34:40

Like, but doesn't that seem. it's just crazy like a minute is nothing it takes

34:47

a minute to walk across the yard almost yeah it seems like it was a lengthy.

34:53

Driveway I mean it wasn't a super short driveway I just feel like maybe something

34:57

might be amiss about the timeline a little bit maybe the parents aren't recollecting

35:02

correctly unless it was like at the beginning of 928 and then the end of 929

35:08

that's almost still that's so short it is,

35:13

I don't know. They would have seen something. A car pull up. Not if the mom.

35:18

The car was already pulling up, apparently, when Tiffany was walking.

35:21

That could have been when she was walking away from her mom.

35:23

Her mom was walking inside. So then, let's say the car pulled up. Tiffany walked to the car.

35:29

It was just a matter of time. And then it was just, let's say,

35:32

the dad's upstairs. She goes, Stephen, come downstairs. Tiffany stole a debit card. We need to go talk.

35:38

The dog gets all excited hearing the mom yell for dad. And the dog comes out,

35:42

too. too. I don't know why the dog's there. I like the fact the dog made a cameo. Insert the dog in the house. I know.

35:52

Logie. Thank you, Logie, for your input that we don't need.

35:57

He's like, I would like to talk. You should have put him on the microphone, Husky.

36:02

Yeah, they talk a lot. He's so cute. I think he might have done that. Let's just add him in.

36:07

Yeah i think it's complicated i mean i don't know i i do think there's just

36:14

what's the motive is the key yeah i think that fact that they had like legs

36:21

they could have tested for sexual assault,

36:25

something yeah i mean they had her torso and

36:28

i don't know the fact

36:31

that they said no rape kit was performed must have

36:35

meant it could have been you would think yeah

36:38

or a full autopsy like they weren't

36:41

the organs weren't tested they didn't try and look at her brain or her throat

36:46

to see if she was strangled or shot shot yeah was there a bullet anywhere my

36:53

goodness gracious and then bloody gloves I guess I wonder like.

37:00

The parents would have to agree to the cremation yeah they must have but i my thinking is they just.

37:09

Were not in their right mind at that time i mean how

37:12

could you be they must not have been not to blame them at.

37:15

All right i'm just thinking like in hindsight

37:18

right so like yeah moment they probably thought well the

37:20

autopsy was completed so what else can we

37:23

do right i'm sure they probably didn't

37:26

have all the facts yet and they just assumed like that's the

37:29

investigation i mean but then you're

37:32

when you have time that's the

37:36

worst thing like time after that to think think think

37:38

and things don't add up but it's

37:42

yeah she didn't walk there no that doesn't make

37:45

sense that doesn't make sense she wouldn't walk logically it makes

37:48

no sense it doesn't a place where it was

37:51

like pitch black in the woods i don't know

37:54

and especially not being on anything so here's the

37:57

thing too is like okay if she if okay

38:01

logically this makes no sense if she walked they

38:04

would have found her walking yeah like

38:08

a minute even two minutes and she's

38:11

gone so they went looking for her

38:14

yeah so she's walking guys she's on

38:17

foot with flip-flops on and then she well flats but

38:21

yes they okay so yeah so sandals flats whatever so

38:24

she's not running yeah so she could not

38:27

have gotten very far and then i guess a

38:31

little under two miles i think it was

38:33

like one point something where they found her shoes 1.7

38:37

or so she decides to kick off her.

38:40

Shoes and then walk barefoot so then she's going to be walking slower

38:43

and there's only from the the

38:46

street it looks like it's a kind of a side street and

38:49

then it goes on to a busier road and then

38:53

you kind of have to go through the woods and maybe there's like

38:55

access roads along the railroad but it's

38:59

kind of wooded and there's only this

39:01

street that she would be walking down so it's like

39:05

yeah not there not there right i

39:08

don't know yeah so it sucks so somebody knows something and they're still out

39:14

there probably multiple multiple people yep come on people give it up you'll

39:21

feel so much better you will it's probably such a heavy weight,

39:26

I hope she visits you every night. I hope she does. Because you're a piece of shit.

39:31

And you know what? I probably will. If it's not solved by the time I die,

39:35

I'm going to visit you because I will have all the answers. Oh, yeah.

39:39

So there you go. And that goes for everybody. Hey, everyone, look out.

39:44

Ghost Lisa has your ass. Who are you going to call? Ghost Lisa.

39:50

I'm going to be in your bedroom. You're trying to sleep. No getting rid of me no bring an exorcist i'll just try to catch me try to catch

40:04

me can't catch me can you freeze be like does this look familiar.

40:11

No you'll never get rid of my just give it up

40:14

now otherwise you're signing up for

40:17

a life and afterlife of terror yeah

40:20

because because tiffany's gone but her parents

40:24

are young her parents they have a lifetime of

40:28

thinking about this every day and you

40:31

can be the gift and you know be

40:34

anonymous whatever like you can be the gift to them and

40:38

that's a piece of her they are they're part of

40:41

her so like why would you hold that in you

40:44

don't even have to you could call from a burner

40:47

phone you can go to a library and go to unsolved.com and

40:51

i'm sure you could do it anonymously but if you want to go to just a different

40:55

computer go there submit your tip just so they have closure like give the family

41:01

closure is all yeah yeah because you are a trash trash bag for what you did.

41:08

I'm not going to sugarcoat that. But, routine yourself a little, you know? Yeah. Be the bigger person here. Yeah. Yeah. Well.

41:20

I finished my 9.5% beer and the rest in peace, Tiffany and rest in peace family of hers.

41:29

I mean, I really, my heart goes out to them. I think that, you know,

41:32

so it just says that like Like so, so much can happen in such a short amount of time.

41:39

Right. And you know, if this was parents of like a toddler and this happened,

41:45

it's one minute. You took your eyes off them. Tiffany was 18 years old and it still happened.

41:50

It's like, it does not matter what age or what timeline.

41:54

It's one minute. Yeah. And a six foot five?

41:58

Six two. Six foot two person. I mean, this isn't a small person.

42:03

And so, yeah, she got in a car willingly, unbeknownst to her,

42:08

there was danger inside. Yes. And they took her somewhere.

42:11

Well, we know where they took her. That's what happened. Yeah. And they killed her.

42:15

They did. And that's our speculation.

42:19

We're right, though. And we'd appreciate if the people that did this would turn

42:23

themselves in and everyone can have a rest of their life and with some peace. Yeah. Yeah.

42:30

So go ahead and leave us a five-star review as you're submitting your tip.

42:36

It would help with your piece. Because you've already listened to us.

42:38

So, you know, just do that. And then it'll give you more karma points that you need. So start working on that. Rack them up.

42:47

Yep. Rack them up. Oh, great. Great.

42:50

Oh, let me end on her. Dad said he would build her a volleyball court when she

42:56

graduated and he built the volleyball court in the backyard and the end of the

43:01

episode showed him like raking the sand and they have a sign up and like a memorial wow it's nice.

43:09

The end. Okay. All right. That's it. Another episode in the books.

43:14

Yep. So if you are still struggling with our audio, just skip ahead to like

43:22

episode 20. We should be better by then.

43:25

And then by the time you like us and you've learned our personalities, then go back.

43:29

Now that you could tolerate the audio and you like us, it's going to be a lot better.

43:34

We sound so good. And you know what? If you don't like our voices,

43:38

You can go boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.

43:42

Yourself. See you driving around town.

43:47

Turning me down. And I'm like, boop you.

43:52

My vocal wavelength here is getting very loud. I want to see how that sounds.

43:59

A 5%. They're like, she's going boop, boop, boop, boop.

44:03

Holding her ear like Britney Spears. Jesus.

44:07

Slap in the mic. Love it. Love it. Good. Okay. This goes in the outtakes. Yes.

44:12

No, this is all. Episode. Lovely. You're welcome.

44:17

We will determine how loud I'm singing later. Then determine.

44:23

Oh. All right. Don't go be bright shining stars.

44:28

Remember to darken the room.

44:32

That didn't sound dark enough. I got to darken the room.

44:35

You did it good. I went low. I went like mid-tone I sounded like we didn't CeeLo Green still,

44:44

yeah you're still I'm getting the but I liked your I liked your coming up on

44:53

like I liked your like comeuppance of this of the thing so do that again,

44:58

okay and we're.

45:00

Music.