0:16

Hello, and welcome

0:17

back to another episode of Beyond

0:19

the to do list, I am your host, Eric

0:21

Fisher, and this is the show where I talk to the

0:23

people behind the productivity. This week,

0:25

I'm excited to share with you a conversation I

0:27

had with Allan Stein Junior.

0:30

He's the author of the brand new book,

0:32

sustain your game. High performance

0:34

keys to manage stress. Avoid

0:36

stagnation, and beat burnout.

0:39

Most times when people talk about

0:42

performance, they're talking about how to improve

0:44

your performance. Not all of them are talking about

0:47

sustaining your performance long

0:49

term. They're not addressing burnout

0:51

or lack of work life balance

0:54

or that general feeling of being

0:56

overwhelmed and constantly stressed

0:58

out. However, any longtime listener

1:01

of this show knows Those are all right in

1:03

the wheelhouse of this podcast.

1:05

And his book sustain your game essentially

1:08

talks about how we will always

1:10

be a work in progress and

1:12

under construction and constantly

1:14

evolving, but that's okay. As

1:17

long as we're thinking about short

1:19

term, medium term, and

1:21

long term, which is exactly how

1:23

he focuses on it. Performance in short

1:25

term pivoting to avoid

1:28

stagnation in the medium term

1:30

and then prevailing and

1:32

beating burnout and making

1:34

a lasting impact in the long

1:36

term. In his book, he pulls together

1:39

a lot of invaluable advice and

1:41

lessons from successful athletes

1:43

he's worked with, entrepreneurs, social

1:46

scientists, journalists, CEOs,

1:49

business coaches, and many more people. and

1:51

even his own personal stories from

1:53

fifteen plus years working with high performing

1:56

athletes, including Kevin

1:58

Durant and Kobe Bryant. So

2:01

if that interests you, that's what this episode's

2:03

about. I know you're gonna enjoy it,

2:05

so I will get out of the way and just say

2:07

enjoy this conversation with Stein

2:10

Junior. Well,

2:12

this week, it is my privilege to welcome to

2:14

the show. Alan Stein Junior.

2:17

Alan, welcome to the show. Oh,

2:19

it's so great to be with you, Eric. This will be lot

2:21

of fun.

2:21

I'm super excited about

2:24

the topic of your new book, which

2:26

is called sustain your game.

2:28

high performance keys to manage

2:30

stress, avoid stagnation,

2:33

and beat burnout. And those three

2:35

things, I think, everybody currently

2:37

is not only dealing with right now

2:39

in excess but has been dealing with

2:42

in varying degrees for some time

2:44

now. Is that what your experience has been

2:46

personally as well as with people you've run

2:48

into?

2:48

Oh, absolutely. I mean, these

2:51

things were approaching record high before

2:53

the two year global pandemic hit. And I think

2:56

the pandemics only heightened them exponentially. And,

2:58

you know, for me, I'm always writing

3:00

the book that mirrors what it is

3:02

I'm going through in my own life. You know, in essence,

3:05

I write the book that I need to read myself.

3:07

So a few years ago, I wrote my first

3:09

book, raise your game, which was about how

3:11

do I reach optimal performance? And I

3:13

I wrote that because I had just left the basketball

3:15

training space and started a brand new

3:17

career as a corporate keynote speaker.

3:19

And then a couple years after that, I

3:21

started to find that I was struggling with

3:24

stress stagnation and burnout which was

3:26

the impetus for the second book. So,

3:28

yes, I can say through personal experience

3:30

and observation that's something I've gone through.

3:32

And then, of course, when I lifted up the hood and

3:34

started doing some research and conducting, you

3:36

know, tons of interviews. I found that I was

3:38

most certainly not the only one that so

3:40

many people from a variety of ages

3:43

a variety of industries, even from a

3:45

variety of different countries. We're all

3:47

experiencing this trilogy that

3:49

not only undermines our performance, but

3:51

absolutely undermines our sense of fulfillment

3:53

as well. It

3:54

sounds like you went from one type of

3:56

coaching to another

3:58

type of coaching, but both of them have their

4:00

stress points, their struggles. What are

4:02

some of the similarities and differences there?

4:04

Oh,

4:05

they most certainly do. You know, one of the things

4:07

that I enjoy most about my work

4:09

is that so many of the things that I learned

4:11

through the the game of basketball as

4:13

a player and as a performance coach and

4:15

I've had an opportunity to work with some of the best players

4:17

and coaches to ever play the game, that

4:19

how so many of those principles and

4:21

strategies and mindsets and disciplines

4:23

have such high utility that

4:25

they apply to every single area of

4:27

life. I mean, the things I've learned to the game of

4:29

basketball have helped me as a

4:31

business owner. They've helped me as a speaker.

4:33

They've even helped me as the father of three

4:35

children, so I I love talking about

4:38

principles with high utility that that we can

4:40

all figure out how to apply to our lives.

4:42

along those same lines, you know,

4:44

I found that, you know, elite level basketball

4:46

players. They also deal with stress

4:49

stagnation and burnout. But that's not something

4:51

that just us near mortals

4:53

deal with? They deal with it as

4:55

well. So these are some pretty ubiquitous

4:58

concepts and, you know, human

5:00

experiences that we all share. And,

5:02

yeah, that's one of the things I just I love most

5:04

about the work I do. Now,

5:05

obviously, people throw around that

5:07

word or pair of words burnout.

5:09

If if it's one word, it's two words, it is two

5:12

words. It's also one word. But people

5:14

throw that around, the term around,

5:16

kinda like kids do when they're they're

5:18

slightly hung agree and need a snack and they go

5:20

the exaggerated sense of saying,

5:23

I'm starving. You're

5:25

not starving. You don't have a concept of that.

5:27

You never have. You never will. Most likely, and

5:29

hopefully you won't. But burnout

5:32

is more of a long term

5:34

thing when you're not managing stress

5:36

in the short term, which is exactly how you

5:38

kind of frame it in the three parts

5:40

of the book where you talk about perform,

5:43

pivot, and prevail. You

5:45

probably heard a lot of people talking about burn out.

5:47

Although, that's actually one of the things we don't do is

5:49

we either trivialize it, talk about it like

5:51

it's that word starving and exaggerate it,

5:53

or we don't deal with

5:55

it at we push it away, push it down, hide

5:57

it, and long term, and then that's when it flares

5:59

up and, like,

5:59

burns us out.

6:01

Oh, so well said. I'm so glad you went in this

6:03

direction and I just made a note to

6:05

myself that I I think I do occasionally

6:07

say I'm starving and I'm I'm gonna

6:09

I'm gonna switch up my word choice

6:11

because you're a hundred percent right. That just

6:13

reached with overdramatization. But,

6:15

yes, it's it's certainly true. Well,

6:17

when it comes to burnout, it's now

6:19

been my experience. both personally

6:21

and through the research and the interviews that I've

6:23

conducted, that burnout really

6:25

stems from misalignment. It

6:28

stems from when the hours that you're

6:30

putting in at work. and the

6:32

sacrifices that you're making to be good

6:34

at your job are no longer

6:36

in alignment with what you find

6:38

meaningful. or you no longer find

6:40

purpose in your work or you're no longer

6:42

curious or fascinated by your work

6:44

or you no longer really enjoy your

6:46

colleagues and your coworkers and the people that you

6:48

do work with. You know, when when you no

6:50

longer feel like you're making a contribution

6:52

or you no longer feel like your work is

6:55

making a difference, that's when

6:57

we're at risk of burnout. So there there certainly

6:59

is an exhaustion component. And

7:01

I'm I'm not advocating that anybody

7:03

works you know, an obscene number of

7:05

hours per week for long periods of

7:07

time. That will leave to just pure physical

7:09

exhaustion, but burnout is actually

7:11

a very specific and technical term

7:13

that as I said stems from misalignment.

7:16

Because I general people and I've been one of them

7:18

in the past that can work a substantial

7:20

amount of hours but my work

7:22

actually fills me up. It lights me

7:24

up. It fills my bucket. I enjoy it. I

7:26

find meaning in my work. I find purpose.

7:28

I'm fascinated by it. I feel like

7:30

I'm making a difference. I I love the people

7:32

I'm serving and the people I'm doing it with. And

7:34

when those things are banging on all cylinders,

7:37

even when I'm working a lot of hours, I'm

7:39

not at risk it burnout. So it's really

7:41

that specific term. Yeah.

7:42

It recharges you. It's it's kind of the living

7:45

out of that old adage, which in the past

7:47

and even to a very small percentage

7:49

now I have issue with, which it it goes like this.

7:51

It's, you know, find something that you love

7:53

to do and get somebody to pay you for it. and you'll

7:55

never work a day in your life or some mix

7:57

of that language. Yeah.

7:59

And and I think there's

7:59

shreds of truth to that. I mean, I

8:02

think where sometimes that can be a little bit

8:04

misleading. is to imply that

8:06

if you love what you do, that

8:08

it's not required or the prerequisite's not

8:10

still putting in a tremendous amount of effort and

8:12

and doing so consistently. I mean, I I

8:15

love what I'd do. I wouldn't be doing it if I

8:17

didn't. But a couple of things. One, I

8:19

do work very hard at what I do. I I work

8:21

hard to be in service of others. I work hard

8:23

in leveling up my craft and I put a

8:25

ton of time into it. And at the same time,

8:27

as much as I I love what I do,

8:29

it doesn't mean that every

8:31

moment of my work is puppy dogs and

8:33

ice cream and rainbows. I mean, there are

8:35

some things that are required of me

8:37

to do my job at a high level that

8:40

simply aren't my favorite things to do. They're

8:42

not my preference. but I still have to do

8:44

those things. You know, I've I've always

8:46

been a big believer that you need to do what's

8:48

required. You need to do what's necessary

8:50

in order for you to become the person that you're trying to become.

8:52

And and we're not always passionate about

8:54

every single one of those things. Well,

8:57

and even

8:57

if you're in a role that

8:59

checks all the boxes. and you love it.

9:01

You can still overextend yourself. I mean,

9:03

there's a ton of data in the book talking about that

9:05

where people are working way

9:07

more than the forty

9:09

hours a week. They're working an average, you know,

9:11

more of, like, forty seven, and

9:13

then some are even working fifty

9:15

plus and sixty plus hours a week.

9:17

over sure. One of the things that I

9:19

really believe has benefited me the

9:21

most because of my sports

9:23

background. You know where where I spent fifteen

9:25

years working with elite level basketball

9:27

players and coaches and teams. And

9:29

the way basketball or really any sport

9:32

is structured, is you have a

9:34

distinct in season, you know, that's the

9:36

competitive season when you're playing games.

9:38

But then you have an off season

9:40

and a preseason. You you can kinda look

9:42

at the calendar year and you can chunk it

9:44

into, you know, like a pie chart, you've got

9:46

those three different slices. And you

9:48

know, one of the main focal points of

9:50

the off season is to rest

9:52

and recover and rejuvenate is to

9:54

step away from your sport and let your

9:56

mind and body and heart deal and and rejuvenate.

9:59

And I realized that in the quote

10:01

unquote real world and in and in work,

10:03

most people don't have that luxury.

10:05

Most of us are required to do our

10:07

work on a year round basis. We don't

10:09

have a quote unquote off

10:11

season. We don't have the luxury of having an off

10:13

season built into what we do. but we can

10:15

still adapt some of those principles. You

10:17

know, as the performance coach, I understood

10:19

that if I was gonna have you come into the weight

10:21

room, Eric, and I was gonna really push you and

10:23

challenge you and take you through an tense and

10:25

exhaustive workout, that that

10:27

had to be followed by some

10:29

rest and recovery. That's the only way

10:31

your body would be able to repair itself and

10:33

build it self back even stronger was if

10:35

you had a substantial amount of time

10:37

off after that. You know, it's simply

10:39

not sustainable to have you come into the

10:41

weight room eight hours a day, seven days

10:43

a week, and push to your

10:45

limits. So I've always understood this

10:47

concept of anytime you're going

10:49

to work hard that has to be followed

10:51

with periods of of rest and

10:53

recovery and rejuvenation. So I've really tried to

10:55

incorporate that in, you know, to the

10:57

traditional cyclical calendar

10:59

year of someone working in

11:01

business where you don't get that. So

11:03

I've found ways to try to incorporate

11:05

that in smaller doses. and,

11:07

you know, I know for me some of the

11:09

rules I put in place, you know, I

11:11

make sure during at least one hour

11:14

during the traditional work day that I

11:16

take that I don't do at any work. I

11:18

untethered from electronics and

11:20

devices. You know, I make sure at least

11:22

one full day out of each week. I

11:24

do the same. I take off, don't do

11:26

any work untether from devices. At

11:28

least once a quarter, I try to take a

11:30

long three day weekend to do the

11:32

same. And then I I do take

11:34

advantage on a yearly basis of taking a

11:36

week or two vacation, you know, sometimes

11:38

prescheduled, sometimes when I need

11:40

it most. So I've tried to

11:42

incorporate this concept of building

11:44

in rest and recovery times and

11:46

building in a quote unquote off season

11:48

even if the off season is only for an hour,

11:50

a day, or a three day weekend, but

11:52

using those principles, and that's one of the

11:54

things that I believe allows me to sustain

11:57

incredibly high energy very

11:59

consistently. And you

12:00

just spelled out some of the practical ways

12:02

that somebody can live

12:04

out having agency

12:06

on their time even if they don't feel

12:08

like they've got a lot when it comes to,

12:10

say, their day job, you know, I can't say, hey, I'm

12:12

gonna take this month off and or I'm gonna

12:14

choose this quarter to be a light quarter

12:17

because, you know, heads would roll.

12:19

But don't not try to have those conversations.

12:21

Those are definitely sometimes workable scenarios

12:23

and situations where you can say,

12:25

hey, I'm gonna work on this thing this quarter

12:27

and it's a lighter lift thing. in

12:29

order to recharge my brain towards

12:32

these other things that I won't be doing this quarter, and

12:34

then I'll be back at it, etcetera. But

12:36

you giving the example of, you know, the once

12:38

a week Once a quarter, once a

12:40

year type scenarios, you

12:42

can cyclically, seasonally.

12:45

Those are ways you can do that even regardless

12:47

of your position for the most part, but also

12:49

then your life life, your your that

12:51

work life balance, you have agency in your

12:53

life side of things that even if the work side of

12:55

things, will never change. It's always static.

12:58

You can change some of the life

13:00

stuff. You can change some of the schedule

13:02

there. Hopefully. Yes,

13:03

you most certainly can. And you can

13:05

absolutely have the discipline to

13:07

say, I'm gonna step away from my desk

13:09

for thirty minutes to enjoy my

13:11

lunch break and stillness or to sit outside

13:13

and enjoy some fresh air. I'm I'm not

13:15

gonna, you know, shovel food in my mouth

13:17

while I'm returning emails. you know, you can just do

13:19

the same thing with, hey, you know, my my

13:22

child has a a tee ball game or a dance

13:24

recital tonight, and I'm gonna leave my phone in

13:26

the glove compartment I

13:28

don't have the temptation to be checking texts

13:30

and emails, want my child

13:32

playing a sport or doing their activity,

13:34

and same thing at night. You know, I'm going to make

13:36

the conscious choice to not sit up in

13:38

bed staring at my device and

13:40

feel that I need to get this certain

13:42

work done. Like, you have to have some of these

13:44

times built in. Yes. I certainly

13:46

recognize if you're working in a traditional work

13:48

structure that you don't always have the

13:50

luxury of taking days off or taking

13:52

extended vacations and and that there

13:54

might be certain times of year

13:56

depending on your industry or location

13:58

that actually are lighter or heavier

14:00

as far as a workload's concerned. So those

14:02

are all things that can be managed over

14:04

time, but the daily stuff of being

14:06

able to say, you know, I'm gonna have some time

14:08

in the morning for a quality morning

14:10

routine. I'm gonna be step away even if

14:12

it's just for fifteen or twenty minutes during

14:14

my lunch break. And then in the evenings, I'm

14:16

gonna find a way to put it up some guardrails and

14:18

some parameters I don't feel that I have

14:20

to be working twenty four seven. And

14:22

when you can put those types

14:24

of guardrails up, you know, you

14:26

you can sustain high performance in sustain

14:28

high energy for long periods of time. It's

14:30

when we get away from doing those things

14:32

that starts to accumulate, and then

14:34

we we feel anxious we feel stressed, we're

14:36

not sleeping as well, then that can

14:38

often lead to not eating as well or or

14:40

skipping workouts, and then it it just

14:42

slowly starts to viral and

14:44

deteriorate and erode our ability to be

14:46

our best self. So we we have to care

14:48

enough about ourselves, care enough

14:50

about the people we serve, which is our families

14:53

and our colleagues and coworkers, as well

14:55

as customers and clients to be able to

14:57

put those types of practices in place.

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18:35

Well,

18:39

this is all about the short term versus the

18:41

long term and we'll end it medium term as

18:43

well as you put it in the book. we

18:45

talk about perform, pivot, and prevail.

18:47

I'd like to dive a little deeper

18:49

into each of those sections

18:51

of the book. Let's start with perform.

18:53

This is the place where we've kind of already

18:55

been treading here anyway where we're talking about managing stress

18:57

in the day today, doing that now

18:59

so that you're staving off,

19:01

you're being proactive, in other words,

19:04

towards potential long term

19:06

eventual burnout. What are some of

19:08

the things that fall in this managing

19:10

stress in the day to day, the

19:12

short term? Well, the

19:12

biggest mind shift that I've had when it

19:14

comes to stress is acknowledging the

19:17

fact that stress does

19:19

not act actually come from external

19:21

forces or circumstances or

19:23

events. Our stress comes from

19:25

our resistance to those things. or our

19:27

perspective of those things or how we

19:29

choose to internalize those things. And that was

19:31

a massive shift because I always viewed

19:33

stress as being something that was

19:35

happening to me. newfound perspective

19:37

is that stress is a choice.

19:39

That stress is something that I

19:41

invite into my life by making the

19:43

choice to resist reality. And

19:46

resisting reality is

19:48

simply a game that you can't win. Now,

19:50

to be clear, I wanna make a couple of

19:52

disclaimers. One, this is much easier

19:54

for me to say than it is to do.

19:56

I'm not gonna sit here and pretend for one second

19:58

that I never get stressed out. You know, this

20:00

I might work in progress. and I

20:02

have not mastered this by any means, but it's something I've

20:04

been able to systematically

20:07

and progressively lower my

20:09

overall stress on a daily

20:11

basis with this shift in

20:13

perspective. The other thing I'll say is a lot of the

20:15

things that happen in the world A

20:17

lot of these circumstances and events, a lot of what

20:19

people say and what people do are not to my

20:21

liking. You know, they're not my preference.

20:24

I'm not even saying that some of those things are inherently

20:26

good. What I've learned is the distinction that

20:28

these are things that are outside of

20:31

my control. the world's gonna do what the

20:33

world's gonna do and it's

20:35

my job to adapt to that and to

20:37

be very thoughtful and conscious and

20:39

intentional in my responses to

20:41

what's going on because it's it's the response that will

20:43

ultimately create the stress. The

20:45

best definition or at least the best definition

20:47

that's resonated most strong only

20:49

with me for stress is the one that I heard

20:51

from Eckart Tully who for lack of

20:53

a better word is kind of a modern day

20:56

philosopher. And he said his definition

20:58

of stress is it's the desire for things

21:00

to be different than they are in the

21:02

present moment. And I just found so

21:04

much power in that. So

21:07

it's it's not the traffic that's

21:09

causing my stress. It's my

21:11

desire for there not to be

21:13

traffic that's causing my stress. If I'm willing

21:15

to just accept the fact, that there

21:17

are some cars in my way,

21:19

surrendered to the fact that it's not the

21:21

universe's job to conspire to make

21:23

me happy, then I can learn to

21:25

relinquish and I can learn to let go. Now,

21:27

of course, it's my preference that I don't

21:29

sit in traffic. I'd like to

21:31

not sit in traffic, but the

21:33

universe isn't really concerned with my likes or

21:35

my preferences. Those cars are there.

21:37

I have to accept that as reality. And

21:39

now I can choose a

21:41

thoughtful and intentional response to

21:43

sitting in traffic. And it's that response that

21:45

will determine my stress level. I

21:47

mean, think about it for a second. You and I

21:49

could literally be sitting in the exact

21:51

same traffic. We could be in cars right

21:53

next to each other and you could

21:55

choose to resist it and fight

21:57

it. You could choose to white knuckle the

21:59

steering wheel, honk your horn, possibly

22:01

curse some absurdities and have this attitude that

22:03

this is just this is happening to you. And

22:05

this is so unfair. And I can't believe

22:07

all these morons are in my way.

22:09

That could be your response to

22:11

sitting in traffic. Whereas I in

22:13

the car next to you could simply

22:16

say, I prefer there wasn't

22:18

traffic. but this is what's happening right now and and I am okay with

22:20

that. I'm gonna either enjoy some quiet or some

22:22

stillness or maybe I'm gonna listen to a

22:25

podcast or I'll even call my parents and catch up

22:27

with them. I haven't talked to them in a few days. I'm

22:29

gonna text the person that I was supposed to meet

22:31

for lunch and politely let them know I'll be a

22:33

few minutes late. because there's traffic.

22:35

You know, it's the same traffic jam and

22:37

yet you and I have very different

22:39

responses to it. We internalize it

22:41

very differently. and thus have very

22:43

different feelings of stress towards

22:45

that. So for me, that's kind of the

22:47

foundation to which the rest of the

22:49

houses is the acknowledgment

22:51

that we don't control these outside forces,

22:53

but we absolutely control

22:55

the thoughtfulness of our response, and

22:57

I wanna choose responses

22:59

that decrease my stress, not

23:01

increase it. That's

23:02

great. And I think the other key here, I mean,

23:05

you know, using stress is one of the things

23:07

you you have here in chapter five, which is part

23:09

of this first section of perform in

23:11

managing stress. And I think that's what you're

23:13

alluding to here, but the other four pieces, there's

23:15

things that people who have listened to the show have

23:17

heard many times before, the word focus. time

23:19

and energy management. But there's

23:21

one actually specifically that I don't think anybody's

23:23

talked about here before, which is the word

23:25

poise. Now what do you mean

23:27

by that? So I

23:27

mentioned Eckhart Tully. There's another and I

23:29

say this with a huge smile. A a who was

23:31

an older gentleman at the time I came across his work

23:33

as a guy named Wayne Dyer.

23:35

and said something during one of his workshops that I found

23:38

really profound. He held up an

23:40

orange and he asked the audience,

23:42

what comes out when I squeeze this

23:44

orange? And everyone kind of looked around

23:46

a little perplexed. I I guess it was so obvious

23:48

that they really didn't know what the answer was.

23:50

So he kind of, you know, plotted them

23:52

along and said, will apple juice come

23:55

out? And folks kinda had a giggle. You

23:57

know, will will grape juice come out? And then

23:59

everyone kind of got his point and said,

24:01

no, orange juice will come out And he said, well, why

24:03

will Orange Juice come out when I squeeze this? And they

24:05

said, well, that's what's inside. And

24:07

that was really his point. You know, when

24:10

life squeezes you. I I say that in air

24:12

quotes. When life challenges you or

24:14

or deals you some adversity,

24:16

what comes out of you?

24:18

Well, it's whatever's on the inside. And

24:20

if what's on the inside is

24:23

a sense of calm, then you'll be

24:25

able to remain poised even

24:27

amidst you know, the the storm of the adversity and challenge.

24:29

If what's inside of you is

24:31

this irritation, this annoyance, this

24:33

anger, this feeling that this is being

24:35

done to you, Well, that's what's gonna

24:37

come out as well. And then you're gonna be frazzled. You're

24:40

gonna be rattled. You'll be the exact opposite of

24:42

poise. So the the ability

24:44

to slowly improve our mental

24:46

toughness and condition ourselves to be

24:48

okay in the eye of the

24:50

storm is what allows us to

24:52

be poised This is what allows us to avoid

24:54

getting rattled or frazzled even when

24:56

things are incredibly chaotic.

24:58

And and this is one of many things that

25:00

I'm proud of the progress that I've made

25:02

and I like the path that I'm on, but

25:04

I'm certainly not speaking from a place of

25:06

mastery. I believe I have much more

25:08

poise today, consist than

25:10

I did a year ago or five years

25:12

ago or definitely ten years ago, but

25:14

it's still an area that I'm continuing to

25:16

improve and level up. You know, one of the things

25:18

that that brought to light how thankful I am that

25:20

I've been able to do some of this internal

25:23

work is when the pandemic hit. And like

25:25

many people, life was massively

25:28

disrupted. And I'm proud of the fact that I was, for the

25:30

most part, able to handle that

25:32

with a pretty decent amount of

25:34

boys, certainly not perfect. but

25:36

that goes back to kind of some of the work that I had done leading up

25:38

to that. Now even

25:40

if the book just contained

25:42

this first section, It do people a lot

25:44

of good managing their stress

25:47

in the day to day. In other words, getting their

25:49

game going, but that's not what

25:51

the name of the book is. It's sustain your game. And I think

25:53

there's really the next two parts are really where

25:55

that comes from, not that the first doesn't lend

25:57

to that. That's the short term. That clears

25:59

the deck. that makes it possible to

26:01

then start moving in the

26:03

area of avoiding stagnation.

26:05

So when you're talking about pivot,

26:07

why use the term pivot? when you're

26:09

talking about avoiding stagnation. Well, I use that

26:11

term very specifically drawing on my experience

26:14

as a basketball performance coach. For

26:16

anyone listening to this that's not very familiar

26:18

with the game basketball. One of the

26:20

moves or or one of the the parts

26:22

of footwork that is most important for a

26:24

basketball player is the ability to

26:26

pivot. They in essence have

26:28

one foot, quote unquote, nailed to the

26:30

floor, but they're allowed to move

26:32

their other foot without any type of

26:34

violation of for a walk or a travel to be

26:36

called thus being a turnover. And the

26:38

reason they're able to do that is when you

26:40

pivot, you change your vantage point.

26:42

You change the angle at which you see your

26:44

teammates or the opponent or the court.

26:46

So pivoting is one of the most important tools

26:48

for a basketball player because it allows you

26:50

to change your current circumstances and

26:52

see things differently. So, you

26:54

know, from where standing with the ball right now,

26:57

I might not be able to see you as my

26:59

teammate or I might not be able to make a

27:01

certain pass to you even though you're

27:03

open, based on where the defender is.

27:05

But if I pivot, now I have

27:07

a completely different vantage point or angle

27:09

and it changes the game. So I use

27:11

that word very intentionally drawing on

27:13

my basketball experience. And it's the same thing

27:15

here. When you find that you're kind of

27:17

on that he did on it treadmill, or you

27:19

find that you're just shredding water

27:21

or you're feeling really complacent and you've

27:24

clicked on that mineral cruise

27:26

control. What you need to do is

27:28

pivot you need to do something to to jump start and make

27:30

that change so that you now see things

27:32

differently and you have a different vantage point

27:34

or a different angle and and that's really the

27:37

impetus of breaking out of stagnation. When we

27:39

talk about stagnation, usually what we're

27:41

talking about is we've

27:43

stagnated our outputs. You

27:45

know, we've stagnated our results. We've

27:48

stagnated our mindset or our

27:50

perspective or our attitude. Those things have started to

27:52

flat line. And in order to

27:54

jumpstart our outputs, we have to look

27:56

directly at our inputs because those

27:58

things are are connected. You know, the

27:59

quality of your inputs will determine the quality

28:02

of your outputs. So the first thing you have to

28:04

ask yourself is, what are my inputs

28:06

right now? What am I reading, watching, and

28:08

listening to? Who am

28:10

I investing my time with? What am

28:12

I feeding my self content wise?

28:14

As in, you know, who am I

28:16

associating with on social media? Or who am I

28:18

following on social media? What am I watching

28:20

on on TV or on Netflix? What

28:22

am I listening to? And and if you

28:24

can start to level those things

28:26

up, a higher quality of input

28:29

will yield a much higher quality of output,

28:31

and it'll help you break through that those

28:33

stagnant times. Now

28:34

in this section,

28:36

this middle section here, which is

28:38

the the medium term, the short

28:40

term was the day to day, and the perform medium

28:42

term is pivot. and avoiding stagnation. You've got

28:45

certain chapters in here dedicated to

28:47

things like taking control or

28:49

reinventing or reaching out

28:52

expanding your circle and your world as well

28:54

as positivity. Why

28:56

are these the pieces that

28:58

fit inside of this pivot

29:01

section? We're

29:01

going back to the inputs versus outputs. You

29:04

know, if if you acknowledge that your outputs are

29:06

flat lining and you you acknowledge that you need to kind

29:08

of jump start and shake up your inputs. First

29:10

and foremost, You have to recognize what

29:12

portions do you have control over and which don't

29:14

you? You know, I'm I'm a huge believer

29:16

to put as much of your time, energy, and

29:18

focus into the things we have control

29:20

and influence over and learn to

29:22

surrender, accept, and let go of the things that

29:24

we don't. Part of that is the ability to

29:26

reach out, you know, reach out

29:28

to people that have have already blazed

29:30

the trail there that you're going down. You

29:32

know, whatever it is that you're aspiring to do,

29:34

if it's a specific area of

29:36

your vocation, you know, reach out someone that has already done

29:38

that or someone that can provide coaching

29:40

or counselor or feedback in that area.

29:42

Don't feel that this is something that you have

29:44

to go at. completely alone. We're

29:47

communal beings as human

29:49

beings, so reach out to some other

29:51

people. POSITIVITY is another

29:53

one. You know, I I always wanna be very careful with positivity

29:56

because I think there is an

29:58

element of what I call toxic

30:00

positivity that's been fairly rampant

30:02

over the last few years. And and the

30:04

toxic positivity approach is

30:06

kind of under these guys that no matter

30:08

what's going on, just smile, give yourself

30:11

a couple of positive affirmations, and

30:13

and just act like everything's gonna be

30:15

great. And I find that when you do that, you

30:17

actually end up suppressing your

30:19

feelings in your emotions, or you ignore them, or

30:21

you resist them, and I've I've never been a

30:23

a believer in doing that. I think

30:25

we should be willing to

30:27

face and acknowledge all of our

30:29

emotions and feel them for a reason. But

30:31

that doesn't mean we have to allow them

30:33

to dictate our behavior. I

30:35

had one one guy say to me one time. He's the

30:37

mental performance coach for the San

30:39

Francisco Giants in Major League Baseball, and

30:41

he said our emotions are designed to

30:43

inform us. They're not designed to

30:45

direct us. And I found that to

30:47

be incredibly profound, which

30:49

means There's nothing wrong with feeling

30:51

a wide palette of emotions. But you

30:53

have to be very careful in letting especially

30:55

the negative ones steer your behavior or

30:57

steer how you treat people. So

30:59

with that said, from positivity standpoint, this is when

31:01

you need to embrace things like like gratitude

31:04

and optimism and

31:06

enthusiasm when you can inject gratitude

31:08

and optimism and enthusiasm into

31:10

your work and into the way that you're seeing

31:12

the world, that can absolutely help you

31:14

break through some stagnation. So

31:16

what about taking control

31:19

or reinventing? Again,

31:21

stagnation is you're you're on the same path

31:23

for so long. Why would

31:25

somebody feel like wait, now I need to

31:27

take control. I'm already in control. Why would

31:30

somebody feel like maybe they need to take

31:32

control again? Is it recalibration? Oh,

31:34

I love that word. Yes. A good portion of

31:36

this will always fall under recalibration.

31:39

But I have found that while

31:41

consciously People feel

31:43

like they've taken control. What they've

31:45

done unconsciously if they've relinquished

31:47

control. They've given a lot of their their

31:49

control away. Now, this actually piggybacks nicely and what we were

31:51

talking about earlier as far as a

31:54

stress response. You know, when

31:56

we choose to view stress is something

31:58

that happens to us. when

32:00

we choose to view stress as a direct result

32:02

of circumstances or events or what people

32:04

say or what people do, we've given

32:06

our power away. We have now

32:08

placed our power and how we feel and how we see

32:11

the world in the hands of something that

32:13

is completely outside

32:15

of our own control. we

32:17

can acknowledge that we don't control those things,

32:19

but we do control our response. And I wanna

32:21

put all of my faculties, mental,

32:23

physical, and emotional into

32:26

thoughtful, intentional, and meaningful

32:28

responses, now I've taken that

32:30

power back. So I think many people

32:32

are under the false guise that they

32:34

are in control when they

32:36

relinquished their control and given it away

32:38

because they they have kind of this. And I

32:40

know this will sound harsh, and I don't mean this

32:42

with an ounce of condemnation or

32:44

judgment, but they kind of play the victim

32:46

card. They kind of say, you know, what

32:48

what's happening right now is not a

32:50

result of what I'm doing or thinking. It's because

32:52

something else or someone

32:54

else. And and that's the whole key to

32:56

taking control. Is being able to

32:58

acknowledge that I have control over my own

33:00

effort and my own energy And I'm

33:02

gonna try to align those things with

33:04

becoming the best version of myself as

33:06

consistently as possible, so we

33:08

absolutely need to take control. And from

33:10

a reinvention standpoint, reinvention

33:12

can happen in a couple of ways. You know,

33:14

if you work in a traditional work

33:16

structure, you know, you are an employee

33:18

at a company and you find yourself

33:20

starting to stagnate, you can talk

33:23

for, you know, to the people that you report

33:25

to and see if there are some ways you can reinvent

33:27

yourself and reinvent role

33:29

within that structure. You know, if if you're starting

33:31

to feel burned out on your current position,

33:33

do you have some skill sets and some

33:36

mind sets that maybe you could move to a different department

33:38

or take on a slightly different role

33:40

or increase and or decrease

33:42

certain responsibilities allow

33:44

you to make a more meaningful and

33:46

maximum contribution to those around

33:48

you so you can reinvent yourself

33:51

within a traditional corporate structure.

33:53

many people choose, and and I think this is a a portion

33:55

of the people that kinda led the

33:57

great resignation, if you will, where people that

33:59

just wanted to reinvent themselves completely.

34:02

It says, hey, I've been working in this industry

34:04

at this company at this job for x number

34:06

of years. It's no longer filling my bucket.

34:08

But I have the skill sets

34:10

with utility that I could do something

34:13

else. So I'm gonna I'm gonna find a new job in a new industry

34:15

at a new company and completely reinvent

34:17

myself. And, you know, on some level, that's kind

34:19

of what I

34:22

did. After a fifteen year career as a basketball performance

34:24

coach, I chose to reinvent myself

34:26

as a corporate keynote speaker and

34:30

author, so Those are are kind of grades

34:32

certainly within in between. Now

34:34

the third section,

34:35

obviously, it's called Prevail, and it's

34:38

about beating

34:40

burnout. And a lot of the beating of burnout comes

34:42

into play in the day to day,

34:44

which reads the FERC section. And some

34:48

of this taking control and reinvention and positivity and and

34:50

avoiding stagnation. If you're not stagnant, if you've

34:52

got, you know, a regular

34:54

routine and rhythms, etcetera, for

34:56

managing stress, burnout is

34:58

much less likely to

35:00

happen. However, here we are,

35:02

Prevail. So what do you mean by the

35:04

term Prevail? And is this kind of a

35:06

spot where say you're not

35:08

doing great in the others, and you're far down

35:10

the line, doing some of the things

35:12

here to stave off burnout may

35:14

help you. so

35:14

glad you went in that direction. You said some really powerful and insightful stuff there.

35:17

And and that is, in essence, there's

35:19

nothing we can do to be completely

35:21

immune to the burnout. I

35:23

mean, we can't promise that we'll prevent it,

35:25

but we can take steps to lessen the occurrence

35:28

and lessen the severity of it. And you just

35:30

mentioned that.

35:32

I mean, and that starts with the first two portions of the book or the

35:34

first two sections. You know, I I look

35:36

at stress as a too much

35:38

problem. I

35:40

look at stagnation as a too little problem, and the combination of

35:42

them is what it can often lead

35:44

to to burnout. So if if you're

35:46

following along the steps that we've already shared

35:48

in this very mindful

35:50

conversation of, you know, I'm finding ways

35:52

to manage my stress in the day to

35:54

day. I'm finding ways to avoid

35:56

complacency and stagnation in

35:58

that midterm. If you're practicing those two

36:00

you have drastically decreased

36:02

the chance that you're gonna

36:04

face burnout. but it's

36:06

still possible. And if you do find

36:08

yourself staring down the barrel of

36:10

burnout, the first thing you need to do is

36:12

be able to acknowledge it and be able

36:14

to admit it. you know,

36:16

we never improve something that we're

36:18

unaware of and we'll never fix something

36:20

we're oblivious to. So bringing it to

36:22

a level of awareness in being able to

36:24

say, I'm aware of the fact that I'm

36:26

slowly starting to approach burnout is a

36:28

massive first step, and it's one

36:30

that shouldn't be, you

36:32

know, overlooked. with that is understanding that that you are not

36:34

alone and that these feelings of

36:36

burnout are are normal. They're part of the

36:38

human condition. And and as I said, no one is

36:40

completely immune

36:42

to them. So it's really important that once you've acknowledged it

36:44

and you're aware of it, that you give

36:46

yourself some grace and

36:48

some compassion. You know, one of

36:50

the the most detrimental things we can

36:52

do when we're feeling burnout is

36:54

to start the stack guilt and shame

36:56

on top of that. and that is a really

36:58

dangerous emotional cocktail that

37:00

will only make things worse. So we have to be

37:02

able to acknowledge that, you know, while burnout

37:04

is is not necessarily ideal

37:06

or preferred, it's part of the human condition and to look

37:09

at ourselves with some empathy and

37:11

some compassion. And being able to kind

37:13

of diffuse that, take the staying

37:15

out that is what will allow you to make some

37:18

decisions that, you know, hopefully get you

37:20

out of that earned

37:22

out space. Excellent.

37:23

So some of the things that are down in this section are

37:25

engage the process

37:28

and rest and

37:30

play. Rest and play, we've kinda talked about already in terms of

37:32

taking certain amounts of time off. However, I

37:34

think maybe this is a long term strategy

37:38

here So how would you relate that to what you were talking about earlier with

37:40

your, you know, your weekly, your quarterly, your

37:42

annual? There's more to it for rest

37:44

and play than just that.

37:46

Certainly.

37:47

I mean, it's embracing the concept that in order

37:49

for us to be quote unquote

37:51

on for our job, We

37:54

have to follow that with periods of being off and that have to embrace

37:56

leisure. We have to embrace the

37:59

activities and

37:59

the people

38:00

that help fill our buckets and light

38:02

us up. So to me, where this

38:05

is done most effectively is on a

38:07

daily basis in your morning and

38:09

your evening routines. being to incorporate the self

38:11

care that's required for you

38:13

to constantly refill your bucket and be

38:15

your best self. And and that

38:17

does include rest And when I

38:19

say play, that's a very broad term. That's

38:22

that's engaging in any

38:24

activity that you enjoy and that

38:26

lights you up and that fills you up. So whatever

38:28

that may be and that that play, quote

38:30

unquote, can be something in the the

38:32

physical realm, the mental realm, the

38:34

emotional or spiritual realm. So it's just

38:36

being cognizant of the fact that I need to

38:38

incorporate these things then. But I I wanna

38:40

touch on what I do think is is arguably

38:42

the most important and that isn't

38:44

embracing the process

38:46

and engaging in the process. Let's make

38:48

sure that it's something that's active. What I find one of the causes of burnout

38:50

is we put all

38:53

of our focus on the outcome or the

38:55

results or the destination that we build all of

38:58

this up. And then when we actually even

39:00

if we

39:02

reach the outcome of the goal of the destination, there's AAA

39:04

let down that follows right after that. Because

39:06

we've put all of this time energy and

39:08

made so many sacrifices to reaching

39:12

this thing and the elation we get from it is usually

39:14

pretty short lived. Now, I have not

39:16

climbed mount Everest, but I have

39:18

certainly researched and interviewed people

39:20

that have and they talk

39:22

about, you know, how

39:24

painstaking and arduous it is to

39:26

reach, you know, the top of Mount Everest

39:28

and and how many years and months it

39:30

takes and training and then actual

39:32

climb itself, you know, and then you get

39:34

it there, and you look at this magnificent

39:36

view, and after about

39:40

thirty seconds, It's like, okay. Well, what's next? And and many of them

39:42

feel almost a borderline

39:44

depression as they're going back down

39:46

the mountain because it's like I

39:48

spent all of this time preparing

39:50

for that fifteen to thirty second view

39:52

and and now there's this letdown.

39:54

And the way that we

39:56

remedy that is by not putting all of our focus on the

39:58

outcome, but instead on the process.

39:59

While learning to enjoy

40:01

the work, enjoy the process.

40:03

During this analogy, actually enjoy the

40:06

climb. Yeah. It's gonna be hard and it's gonna

40:08

require some sacrifice. But when you can

40:10

learn to love

40:11

the climb, than you've already won. You're already

40:14

getting enjoyment and fulfillment

40:16

and elation out of

40:18

the doing. It's not just

40:20

this, did I hit the target or

40:22

not? It's actually loving the work. And

40:24

for me, that's the biggest remedy to

40:26

burnout. Is not getting tied up

40:28

and out outcomes or results or destinations. Just let those be the

40:30

natural byproduct of the work you

40:32

do, but learn to love the work and

40:34

love the

40:36

climb and

40:36

then you've already won in advance. Well, and I

40:38

think that

40:39

some of the seeds for engaging

40:41

the process are already planted

40:43

in the second section when we

40:45

were talking about taking control and

40:48

reinvention because you're thinking

40:50

about that long term engagement

40:52

with the process even then. Absolutely. Yeah.

40:54

These things, you know, even though I I tried to

40:56

write the book in these three different sections,

40:58

if you will, they're all interconnected.

41:01

And they're all somewhat cyclical as far

41:04

as, you know, it's they're not

41:06

compartmentalized, you know, in this neat,

41:08

clean, progressive, and

41:10

sequential order. we are toggling in and out of these three things

41:12

almost at all times during our life. And and

41:14

sometimes some of them are are more in

41:16

our face and and more prevalent than at

41:18

other times. But these are things that

41:20

we're always trying to balance. And again,

41:22

they all work together. You know, if

41:23

generally speaking, you can do a pretty good

41:26

job of managing your stress on the day to

41:28

day and You can fight off the

41:30

temptation to be complacent or stagnant

41:32

in that midterm. You're already setting

41:34

yourself up to decrease the

41:36

occurrence or severity of burnout. And once again, and if you

41:38

can throw in loving the work

41:40

and loving the climb itself, then

41:42

you were slowly bullet proofing

41:44

yourself against having that

41:46

extreme feeling. Obviously,

41:47

there's a lot more to all

41:49

three of these sections and the book as

41:51

a whole, but I'd

41:54

to get people pushed over to

41:56

where they can find out more, dig deeper, find

41:58

out more about you and the work you're doing as well as

42:00

dive a little bit deeper into the book if they're still

42:02

on the fence. where's the best place to

42:04

send people? Well, my

42:05

main hub is my website, alan

42:08

stein junior dot com. And for the most

42:10

part, that covers my speaking services, and and I offer both

42:12

virtual and in person programs that

42:14

mirror the teachings of both of my books. So

42:16

all of this stuff we

42:18

talk about you know, can be showcased a form an

42:20

inactive workshop or or even a full

42:22

day training. I have another

42:24

website strongerteam

42:26

dot com So I have alan

42:28

steven junior dot com, and then I have another

42:30

site, strongerteam dot com,

42:32

which has information not only on

42:34

the books, in more depth. But on my podcast, I have some one

42:36

on one coaching services I offer, and I

42:38

have an online course. So it's kind of the

42:40

supplemental site.

42:42

And then I'm very active and accessible and responsive on on

42:44

social media at Allenstein junior

42:47

on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn,

42:50

and Facebook, take a tremendous

42:52

amount of pride and enjoy engaging with

42:54

folks. So anyone listening, if any part of this

42:56

conversation has resonated or you have

42:58

something that you wanna share or question you

43:00

wanna ask, just shoot me a DM on Instagram or on LinkedIn. I'm I'm

43:02

very good about getting back. And then as far as

43:04

the books themselves, you know, you can just do a

43:06

search for raise

43:08

your name or sustain your game on Amazon or Audible or

43:10

wherever you like to get your books and in audiobooks and you

43:12

can find out some more info for

43:14

sugar. Per

43:15

and I will make sure to link up to all of what you just mentioned

43:17

in the show notes so people can find it quickly

43:19

and easily if they're on the way

43:22

somewhere right now or on

43:24

a walk. you know, workout, whatever. But yeah, Alan, great talking

43:26

with you. Thank you so much for sharing

43:28

and thank you for sharing all

43:30

this wisdom.

43:32

Absolutely.