0:00

This week on Best Friend Energy. I

0:02

didn't get into true crime because it was like

0:05

having a moment. I didn't get into podcasting because it

0:07

was up and coming. I freaking

0:09

love what I do.

0:19

Hi guys, I'm Klia. And I'm Joanna.

0:22

And this is Best Friend Energy. On

0:24

the show today, we are talking with podcaster

0:27

Ashley Flowers, who I absolutely

0:30

love. Her crime podcast, Crime

0:32

Junkie, is a massive hit and one of my favorites of

0:35

all time. It was the most listened

0:37

to podcast on Apple in 2022. She

0:40

also started a media company called Audio

0:42

Chuck, where she's making a bunch of other podcasts

0:44

in the crime genre. I have now

0:47

all my homework ahead of me, all the

0:49

shows

0:49

I need to listen to that all top the charts.

0:52

As a fellow crime junkie, I am

0:54

so excited to talk to her. I know

0:56

this is like your world. Yeah, this is my world. And

1:00

of course, we'll take some DMs. But first,

1:02

we're going to take a quick break.

1:03

This episode of Best Friend Energy is supported

1:06

by the Home Depot. We are so

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Oh my goodness. I have never been so excited.

2:00

We cannot believe that we get to have

2:02

Ashley Flowers on to Best Friend Energy.

2:04

Ashley, thank you so much for

2:06

being here. Thank you, Ashley. Thank you for having me.

2:09

Your podcast, Crime Juggy, you started it

2:11

in 2017. It is one of the most

2:13

listened to podcasts out there. I

2:16

personally have been following you and listening to it forever.

2:19

It's just amazing. You are a crime junkie. Oh,

2:21

I know. I am a crime junkie. I'm

2:23

your biggest fan, basically. That's

2:25

right. I'm going to try to not make this podcast about me,

2:28

is the bottom line. We don't want it about you. No,

2:30

no, no. We don't want it about you. I don't want it about

2:33

me. This is about you. And I'm going

2:35

to try and keep myself from just peppering you

2:37

with questions that only serve my self-interest

2:39

about true crime. Okay? So I just want

2:41

to say that. Your podcast, Crime Juggy, started in 2017. Now

2:45

in 2023, you run this super influential

2:47

media company. How did this happen? How'd

2:50

you break through? Oh my. Well, this

2:52

isn't what I thought it was going to be. I thought we were going to have

2:54

this cool, super niche, Indianopolis

2:57

thing happening. I started

2:59

listening to podcasts when many

3:02

people did in 2014 with Serial because I was crime...

3:06

I was the crime junkie. So this true crime

3:08

thing happened. My best friend,

3:10

my co-host, Britt, had been

3:13

trying to get me to listen to podcasts forever, and

3:15

I kept telling her, that sounds really stupid and boring.

3:17

No, thank you. And

3:20

I was in medical sales at the time. So I had

3:22

this eight hour trip in the car,

3:24

and she's like, you have to try this thing. Everyone's

3:27

talking about it. I just listened

3:29

to it. Obviously, I became obsessed, and

3:31

I fell in love with podcasting.

3:35

It felt so personal. I was already listening to audio books,

3:37

but this was so different, and

3:40

I gobbled up everything that was

3:42

out there. So,

3:43

fast forward

3:44

a couple of years, I kept

3:46

waiting for somebody to make this specific

3:49

show I wanted to hear, and no

3:51

one was making it, and no one was making it.

3:54

And then at the same time, I was

3:56

on the board of directors for

3:58

Indianapolis' crime stoppers.

4:01

And I was the youngest board

4:03

member by a mile, and they

4:05

had asked me to do some like brand awareness

4:08

for them. We just need like, you know, people

4:10

your age to know what we are. And

4:12

so I don't know, I got this idea that maybe

4:15

I could do this podcast I was looking

4:17

for. I felt like I'd been studying

4:19

podcast, specifically true crime podcast

4:22

for like three years at that point. And

4:24

I could also maybe use it to do some brand awareness.

4:26

So if you listen to like the early episodes of crime

4:29

junkie, they have like big baked in ads for crime

4:31

stoppers. And oh, that's so

4:33

funny. And think about that. It exploded. We

4:36

I did a ton of marketing. That's not to say I just like put

4:39

something out there and let it go. Right.

4:41

Because I knew I gave myself a year to make

4:43

it my full time job. I knew I couldn't keep it

4:45

going forever because it was a lot

4:47

of work. And luckily,

4:50

it did work. I mean, which

4:52

is, it's incredible, because I mean, to

4:54

break out, and I know in 2017, it

4:57

wasn't as saturated as it is now. But

4:59

it still was incredibly

5:01

hard. Yeah, create a podcast that

5:03

people all over connected with.

5:06

Yeah. And I mean, most of the, you know, the

5:08

ones that were getting the attention were with these large

5:10

networks were with radio stations

5:13

or newspapers, or you had like, you

5:15

know, the wonderings of the world who are these large

5:17

firms with venture capitalist funding. And

5:20

I, I was just me in Indianapolis.

5:22

And so I tried

5:24

to do everything I could, you know, perceptions, the reality,

5:27

like the little bit of money I had, I invested

5:29

into making sure our logo didn't look like I

5:31

made it on like Microsoft Paint. I had a

5:33

theme song that

5:36

I loved. I did I did

5:38

the marketing and all of that stuff. I it's

5:40

the whole reason I came up with the name Audiochuck is I

5:42

was like, well, I wanted to look like we're part of a network, even

5:44

though I'm clearly not part of a network. I don't want

5:46

to say crime junkie underneath crime junkie. So

5:49

there are a lot of these like little decisions that went

5:51

into it that that paid off in the end.

5:54

What do you think it was that captured people so quickly

5:57

and became people came became such a massive

6:00

like falling

6:00

for you.

6:02

Well, I think that a couple of things I think

6:04

I think I was right in that people were looking for the show

6:06

I was to my initial thing like if I

6:08

want this I bet someone else does and

6:11

our format even though it felt

6:14

familiar like you had seen it before nobody

6:16

was doing our format where

6:19

even though it was to host it's one person telling

6:21

the story and then you know my best friend Brit

6:23

really being in the seat of that audience

6:25

I think it was the first time that people

6:27

in podcasting they feel

6:29

like you're talking directly to them but it's one way

6:32

I think it's the first time it kind of felt two-way

6:34

because they were hearing themselves represented in

6:36

like a conversation yeah we were one of the first

6:38

true crime podcasts that gave people

6:41

a really clear path of

6:43

like how to get involved and take the next

6:45

step because it's again how I felt walking

6:47

away from a lot of the true crime content I consumed

6:50

podcasting or otherwise it was like well

6:52

that's that is horrific I can't believe that's

6:54

happening what do I do right and

6:57

no one was answering that question and I

6:59

think giving people the call to action they're they're

7:01

looking for a way to get involved and

7:03

to do better and to consume better and

7:05

I think we were one of the first people showing them the

7:08

path to that so let's go

7:10

back really quick you mentioned cereal I

7:12

think that a lot of people and myself

7:14

included that was like my first foray

7:16

into being yeah obsessed with the podcast

7:19

I remember I was dry I was on a road trip I think a

7:21

lot of us were on road trips and like when we

7:23

decided to binge so first of all

7:25

I need to know do you think Adnan did it

7:28

absolutely not okay I agree and

7:30

can you believe that like it got

7:32

overturned and then and then they actually

7:34

put them back whatever's

7:38

going on now is so unprecedented

7:41

because I mean for the people who don't

7:43

know they basically after years and years

7:46

and years he finally was released

7:48

they dropped the charges but

7:51

they're trying to like reinstate his

7:53

conviction based on a technicality that

7:55

the victim's family wasn't given

7:58

enough time to attend court in

8:00

person when the

8:02

ruling happened. So it's not even based

8:05

on like something related to Adnan's cases,

8:07

again, a technicality. It's very, very strange.

8:09

And I don't really even understand the motivation

8:12

behind it. I don't either. It's above

8:14

me and you're my guru now. So

8:16

I am just like, I'm gonna ask you all the questions. So

8:19

Serial also for people who didn't

8:21

hear it, the 1% of people who didn't listen,

8:24

I think was Joanna. I am, I make up the 1%. Yeah,

8:27

have you listened yet?

8:28

No. No. I'm late

8:30

on the game. She still hasn't caught

8:32

up to 2014.

8:34

No, I'm just late on all the games here.

8:37

The thing about Serial, when I first

8:39

finished it, there was no end. There was

8:41

no actual answer of like, this is, we

8:44

uncovered the truth, right? It was like an open

8:46

ended, like, what do you think? Like it was like a debate

8:48

about like what everyone felt about it. Did

8:51

you think, okay, I wanna have conversations about cases

8:53

or I wanna solve cases? Well, when

8:55

I first started with Crime Gunkey

8:57

specifically, it was to have conversations. Like

9:00

I knew I was not a trained investigative

9:02

journalist. I didn't have the skillset

9:04

to go

9:05

and contribute to a case in a meaningful

9:07

way.

9:08

Like if I would have gone on knocking doors that

9:10

early in the game, I would have really messed anything

9:12

up in any investigation. So our

9:15

goal really was to like, again, to talk about

9:17

the cases, to bring awareness to unsolved

9:19

cases, to educate

9:22

our listeners about ways to keep themselves safer,

9:24

work with nonprofits. And the thing

9:26

you're saying about Serial was like, I

9:29

think it was one of the first times I saw it is something that I loved is

9:31

I am drawn to cases with no ending.

9:33

I think that's what is so compelling.

9:36

And for the longest time, so

9:39

many people in media would tell you absolutely

9:41

not. They're like, people want resolution. And that is

9:43

absolutely true. There is a group of people who want resolution,

9:46

but there's also a group of people like me who

9:49

we wanna be part of finding it. We're okay

9:51

that it's not there, but again, it's what can we do next

9:54

to get there? So, but now,

9:56

you know, now that I'm five years in and we

9:58

have a team, like I've been. able to bring

10:01

in investigative journalists, like hire

10:03

professionals to consult on cases. And

10:06

so for other shows, The Deck Investigates,

10:08

for example, like there are other cases

10:10

we're working on outside of Crime Junkie that I'm like, hell

10:13

yeah, I wish we could solve it. Yeah, right.

10:15

Oh, God. I mean, it's my actual

10:18

dream. Honestly, like you can't dream too big

10:20

because I won't have a podcast with you. I know,

10:22

I know, I know, I know. But it's like you're

10:24

living the life I want is all I am

10:26

trying to tell. So when you are deciding

10:29

what stories you want to tell, like, what

10:31

is your rabbit hole process for pulling

10:34

together what you want to talk about? Oh, man. And it's so

10:36

different based on the show, right? So like for

10:38

Crime Junkie, like you have

10:40

to limit it at some point. But

10:43

we really the whole experience of what a Crime

10:45

Junkie episode is supposed to be is like,

10:48

what it was back in the day when I would

10:50

scour the internet because I have no resources. So

10:52

it's what is available on the internet to watch,

10:55

read, consume in some way. And I'm going

10:57

to tell my best friend that. So for

10:59

a Crime Junkie episode, it really is, you know, are there

11:01

books? Are there news articles? Are

11:03

there documentaries? And let me distill everything

11:06

that's out there into this piece. And I'm going to give you the facts.

11:08

I'm not going to take you down the weird, like Reddit

11:11

stuff that's not so sure. Right, right,

11:13

right. So like, I have to limit myself

11:15

there because you can I think that's where you get lost

11:17

in the rabbit holes is like the wild

11:20

theories that haven't been proven. Yeah. On

11:22

the other hand, when I'm working on something like the deck

11:24

investigates where, you know, it's

11:26

this unknown case, but we have like documentation

11:29

and we're actually interviewing the victim's family.

11:32

Like I've been working on that for almost

11:35

a year at this point. And like

11:37

I am lost in rabbit

11:39

holes that I can't even name because

11:42

it's like one person who's named once on

11:44

a report. And I'm like deep diving onto

11:46

their Facebook and figuring out who they're connected

11:48

to. Right. You're a detective. An

11:50

Internet detective. Yeah. Internet detective. I

11:53

love it. Yeah. So like, I mean, it can you

11:55

have to like with crime, I have to like reel

11:57

it in or there would be one episode and I wouldn't

11:59

be here. Do

12:02

you think that TikTok has like helped

12:04

or hurt the conspiracy theories

12:06

of investigations? You

12:10

know, it's like everything I feel

12:12

like with social media. Right. It's

12:14

like it has such potential to help.

12:17

And I have seen it help in amazing

12:19

ways in getting recognition

12:21

for cases that have otherwise been forgotten

12:24

by traditional media. But

12:26

then on the flip side, like it's when people

12:28

aren't using it responsibly that it just

12:31

goes off the rails. And

12:34

it's like it's sometimes the damage

12:36

you can do outweighs

12:38

the good you can do. That's right. This

12:40

is why we can't have nice things. Yeah, it's the internet.

12:43

I mean, that is right. Do you have

12:45

any other earlier influences other than

12:47

serial that like, you know, like, did you get

12:49

obsessed with the doc? Like the jinx on

12:52

Netflix or like, you know, I'm

12:54

a crime junkie. I've consumed all of

12:56

all of it. I mean, so I always say my

12:59

mother, her mother before her, they were the OG

13:01

crime junkies, which is how I got into it. Interesting.

13:04

It's a generational thing. Oh, yeah,

13:06

I was like five watching like

13:09

Perry Mason and Matt Lock and Murder. She wrote.

13:11

Oh, I love Murder. She wrote a Matlock. I used

13:14

to watch those obsessively. I never watched. Oh my God.

13:16

I lived off of Murder. She wrote Angela Lanfary.

13:19

I mean, the best. You are Angela Lanfary. Thank

13:21

you. That's why she never got into

13:23

serial. She's still watching Matlock. No, that was not Matlock.

13:26

So many reruns. That's a different show. Okay.

13:29

So you were at this early. Yeah. So

13:31

like I consume, you know, all the fiction stuff. Eventually

13:33

at some age realized that this stuff is really happening.

13:36

And I mean, I was reading true crime books

13:38

back when you had to go to like Barnes and Noble

13:41

and Amazon wasn't a thing. So like

13:43

it's just it's just been my world. And

13:45

so name the documentary. I've seen

13:47

it. Name the podcast. I've listened to it. Like

13:50

this is my life. Does it ever get old? For me it does not.

13:53

But I'm just curious. Like oversaturation. No,

13:55

you just said the only kind of gets old.

13:58

So there is stuff you can name that I haven't listened to. to, but it's

14:00

like when we're talking about the same serial

14:02

killer, like for the 56th time,

14:04

like cannot bring myself to do it. But

14:07

if it's a new case, if there's like an interesting

14:10

angle, new information, I've

14:12

consumed it. I cannot stay away. Do you

14:14

like when you go to a dinner party, do people

14:17

want to only talk about crime, like

14:19

crimes with you? Or do they actually want to talk about are

14:21

you like, please, like, let me just not talk about

14:23

work, but you know, I would, I would still love

14:25

to talk about crime. This is the thing I tell people all the time.

14:28

I think part of the success of crime junkie, like I

14:30

didn't get into true crime because it was like

14:32

having a moment. I didn't get into the casting because it

14:34

was up and coming. Right. I am like,

14:36

I freaking love Yeah, what

14:39

I do. And so I would love to

14:41

sit down at dinner and talk about true crime cases 24 seven,

14:44

my friends are at least like most of my friends

14:47

in our friend group are like not into it. So

14:50

yeah, so we don't talk about true crime, like

14:52

on the regular, which maybe keeps it fresh for work. Like

14:55

if you like go to like a holiday party, are

14:57

people like let's get out like let's play

14:59

clue like let's do a murder

15:02

mystery dinner. Like, like, no, okay. In

15:05

my mind, that's what happens. Like, yeah, you come if

15:07

you came to my house, which we can talk

15:10

later. If you came to my house for dinner,

15:12

I totally would. I'd be like pandering to

15:14

you. She'd have the clue out. It would be a murder mystery

15:16

theme. There'd be like knife

15:19

daggers. Yeah, that's right. I

15:21

feel like for people who like I have

15:23

met through it, like because of being

15:25

a podcaster, like they're far more likely

15:28

to talk to me about that than people from

15:30

my like, my everyday life who always knew

15:32

that I was a crime junkie. They do not care

15:35

that I'm now the crime junkie. And they still have

15:37

no interest in talking about crime. Yeah, I

15:39

mean, well, it's their loss. If you ask me, we're

15:43

gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back with more

15:45

from Ashley. All

15:49

can get pretty busy in both our houses.

15:51

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18:14

Okay, let's talk about your new podcast, The Deck

18:16

Investigates. We touched on it just a little bit.

18:19

Tell us what that's about and what people can expect from it.

18:21

So Deck Investigates is a spinoff of

18:23

a weekly show I have called The Deck, where every

18:26

week, they have cold case playing

18:28

card decks where each card

18:30

is a missing or murdered

18:32

person whose case is unsolved. We

18:35

came across one case that was just far

18:37

too big to tell in one or two episodes.

18:40

And that's the murder of Darlene Hulse that happened

18:42

in Argus, Indiana, which is just

18:45

about an hour and a half north of where

18:47

I live. And actually really close to where

18:49

I grew up. And we

18:51

started working with her daughters. Darlene

18:53

was 28 years old and she was a stay-at-home

18:56

mom. And one morning in 1984, it's like 9.30 in

18:58

the morning, she's

19:00

getting her daughters ready. They've got to leave for

19:02

a doctor's appointment. And someone

19:05

comes into her home, takes

19:07

her, and pulls her from her

19:09

home in front of her girls who

19:12

were in the bathtub. They get out

19:14

of the bath, they're running butt naked to their grandparents'

19:16

house who lived down the street trying to get help. And

19:19

even though they ran, got help, police got

19:21

there. In that window, the man

19:23

took her from her home and she was found

19:25

the next day in a patch of woods just a few

19:28

miles away, she'd been murdered. And

19:30

for 38 years, almost 39, it's gone unsolved.

19:35

And we couldn't understand why. There

19:39

seems to be so many leads, so many opportunities,

19:41

especially now with new technology. So

19:44

one of our investigative reporters

19:46

and myself spent the last

19:48

year just

19:49

diving into this case, trying

19:52

to see if we could drum up any new information.

19:54

I'm like telling everything. I know I need to like, listen

19:56

to the whole, I know,

19:58

love it. God, you can really do podcasts.

19:59

about crime. Yeah, yeah. You're

20:02

an inspired Joanna. Joanna thinks she's

20:04

not a crime person and she's doing it wrong.

20:06

No, no, no. I think I might be. Wait, wait, wait.

20:08

Tell me everything. Like I'm like, how, how

20:10

was this unsolved? So back in the day,

20:13

right, there was no DNA. They kind of got

20:15

off on the wrong foot early on where they

20:17

kept saying, you know, this is because when they did

20:19

her autopsy, they didn't believe she was sexually

20:21

assaulted. Like there was no evidence

20:24

at the time that they say that. I still, I kind of question

20:26

that now based on stuff that we uncovered, but

20:28

they focused on it being a robbery, which now all

20:30

the experts disagree with. So I think they had the wrong

20:33

motive early on. But again, hindsight

20:35

is 2020. I don't like, I don't judge them for

20:38

what happened in 1984. Now

20:40

there is new technology. The problem

20:42

that we've run into is we have

20:44

found some very viable persons

20:47

of interest that, that we think are interesting.

20:50

They have gotten a partial DNA profile

20:52

off of Darlene's blouse, but

20:55

they're not testing it against anyone. So

20:57

a partial profile, you can't upload the databases

20:59

to see if there's a match, but you can do direct comparison.

21:01

And they have some very clear people

21:04

who are still even like

21:06

living within driving distance that

21:09

for a few years now, they just

21:11

have not taken the time to go get a swab. And

21:14

so we're really trying, we have a petition, we're really

21:16

trying to put pressure on the prosecutor's

21:18

office to just get those swabs. I

21:20

mean, when you're talking a case that's almost 39 years old,

21:23

like people are dying. Like if this

21:25

case is going to ever come to

21:27

a resolution, it's gotta be soon. Right.

21:29

Wow. That is so fascinating.

21:31

I can't wait to listen to it. Wild.

21:35

I have a question for you. Aside from crime,

21:38

is there anything else that you're like absolutely obsessed

21:40

with? My dog. Okay.

21:44

That's a fair obsession. Yeah. Like name

21:46

my company after him. My dog's Chuck. What kind

21:48

of dog is Chuck? He's a Husky

21:50

Pit. I got in my last year of college, which is like

21:52

the worst time to get a dog. So he and I've

21:55

been together for like 12 years now. He's my homie.

21:58

Oh, and I just had, I had a daughter this last year. So

22:00

like I mean, I don't feel like I have time

22:02

to like be into things anymore

22:05

I know I'm I get to go to work

22:07

where I am happy and like that's kind of it I

22:09

didn't really get into love is blind for a hot

22:11

minute and I'm not a reality TV person, but okay

22:14

I mean, that's that's fair. Yeah, I feel like for

22:16

me again, like my reality

22:19

TV It's either a cooking competition

22:21

or some true crime

22:23

situation, which is not reality All

22:26

right. So really quick. I also want to know you have

22:28

done live shows For the deck.

22:31

What are Joanna and I are going on a

22:33

live tour for the very first time summer summer Yeah,

22:36

we got exciting what tell

22:38

us everything like what what is

22:40

it? What was it like for you? What's it gonna be like for

22:43

us? Like what was your format like top?

22:45

Oh, I feel like it's gonna be like so

22:47

fun for you guys because you guys do get to

22:50

just like be fun and it's a lot

22:52

lighter and like people there the energy

22:54

is so great because The people

22:56

who are buying your tickets those are like the super fans

22:58

like they want you to succeed They're not like they're

23:00

not the people leaving the one-star reviews. So the energy

23:03

of a lot of a live audience is

23:05

so unbelievable I mean again,

23:07

I like have only done podcasting. I'm in this

23:09

room by myself all the time So

23:11

it was so cool to like actually see the faces

23:14

of people who are listening But

23:16

for me, I mean like to put together our

23:18

show It was months

23:20

and months and months and months of work because like

23:23

I had to memorize the story You know, it's

23:25

not just like off the cuff stuff We

23:27

had to put together like assets we created because

23:29

I wanted the deck investigates to feel

23:32

like one part podcast One

23:34

part documentary and one part being

23:37

like in an investigative war room And

23:40

so that just took a lot of work. I also got mad

23:43

stage fright. So it was like do

23:45

Oh Terrible really?

23:47

Oh god, that is surprising. I'm surprised.

23:50

Yeah, I am too Terrible. I like

23:52

it sick. So I think

23:54

you guys gonna have a blast with it you guys get to just

23:56

like talk and have fun with your audience and

23:58

I think that like Find a little way

24:00

to surprise them. Like the biggest part for

24:03

me about Live Tour is what I wanted to

24:05

give the audience is a reason

24:07

that they came to see it as opposed to just listening

24:09

to it. Yeah. Incorporating those visuals as

24:12

I thought was a banger. That's

24:14

what we're really focused on is like some kind

24:16

of like actual interaction and engagement

24:18

that can't happen just from Instagram

24:21

or a podcast. OK, I have a question

24:23

about Audiochuck. As we know,

24:25

Nowchuck is your dog. Yes. So

24:28

you're located in Indianapolis. Do you

24:30

get a lot of pressure to leave

24:32

Indianapolis to move your

24:35

company to LA, New York, anything?

24:37

I ask because we live in Nashville. So, you

24:39

know, it's a similar thing. There has been. And

24:42

it's not like deep pressure

24:44

where people like keep pushing on me. As soon as I tell them no,

24:46

they like leave me alone. But yeah, there are people

24:48

who would be like, you know, it'd be so much easier if we're

24:51

here. These are where the meetings are happening. This

24:53

would be so much easier to find talent,

24:55

to find whatever. But I've

24:58

just been so committed

25:00

to staying here. I

25:03

think that like because, you know, if I

25:05

wanted to create a place where people didn't

25:08

feel like they had to like for people like me who grew

25:10

up here, the only option was to go

25:12

to New York, LA, these bigger cities to do something

25:14

in media or to do something like

25:17

fun like this. And I wanted to create

25:19

this hub where people didn't have to go to

25:21

those places that are sometimes just not

25:24

affordable. Yes. Right. And also staying

25:26

here allowed me. You know, the financial

25:28

resources to continue to instead of

25:30

spending all the money on office space,

25:32

I'm reinvesting into the company. And

25:35

there's so much like not to get like wildly

25:37

political. There's so much going

25:40

on in specifically even

25:42

my state right now that like if

25:44

I can also provide a place where

25:46

people can come and just be like 100

25:49

percent themselves, 100 percent authentic

25:52

and feel safe and valued. I

25:54

think there's so much value in giving that

25:57

to people. I think that that's really

25:59

amazing. I mean it really is and I think

26:01

it's inspiring to people that are not living in major,

26:04

you know, coastal cities Let's talk

26:06

about your book. So first of all, it's

26:08

I think most people would expect you to write

26:10

a nonfiction kind of like Investigative

26:13

I know I'm story but you actually

26:15

chose to write a fictional crime story.

26:18

So it's called all good people here What's

26:20

it about and what was the inspiration? Well,

26:23

just like a funny story before that they

26:26

actually did want me to write nonfiction and

26:28

like they they Agents

26:31

like people from publishers. They were like, no like that's

26:33

what people want from you They don't want fiction from you

26:35

and I was like, well, this

26:37

is what I want to write So if we're gonna do anything

26:39

like let's try this and so it's just funny

26:41

because nobody eventually they got on board

26:44

and believed in it, but They definitely

26:46

wanted something different. So I again

26:49

when I look back at like where my True

26:51

crime or crime junkie journey started it

26:54

was with fiction it was with my mom reading

26:56

me Agatha Christie and Nancy Drew and You

26:59

know, I always say crime junkies aren't just listening

27:01

to podcasts. They aren't just watching documentaries Like

27:04

I think of myself as the OG crime junkie and

27:06

I'm reading every Misfiction mystery

27:08

novel that comes out. I love a good mystery So

27:11

I wanted to create that for our fans

27:15

as well And I don't know

27:17

I had this like story living in me

27:19

for a long time Kind

27:22

of the premise of like, you know What would happen if everyone's

27:24

so busy covering for each other that

27:26

you like kind of missed the truth? and

27:30

it took a lot of writing and

27:32

rewriting and and brainstorming

27:34

but finally I got to the point where Because

27:37

we thought well, maybe it'd be a podcast I'm like, I don't want to do a fiction

27:39

podcast like that in a book Who just felt like

27:41

the best way for this story to come to

27:44

life was it fun

27:46

to write or was it like wow What did I sign up for?

27:49

It was a little wow What did I sign up for because

27:51

when I signed up for it was in 2019 at the

27:53

very end of 2019? Oh,

27:57

well, well, and then pandemic

28:00

happened and so like everything got put on

28:02

pause for like a year because you know we were all waiting

28:05

for like that next two weeks to be over. Right. That's

28:07

two weeks. Yeah, just a 14 day quarantine.

28:09

Just a 14 day. I know. And

28:11

so then by the time we realized okay

28:14

this is just life now we picked it back up. The

28:16

business was like in a completely different

28:18

place like taking off. I was pregnant

28:21

and so it was wildly

28:23

overwhelming to do. I had never

28:25

written a book before and the process is

28:27

so different. Like you know I'm used to putting

28:30

out these podcasts where the turnaround time

28:32

I mean you've got you've got weeks

28:34

not months and months

28:37

so I also have like no patience so

28:39

it was very hard for me and even the editing

28:41

process was really hard like at some

28:43

point I wanted to flip a table and be like why do you even

28:45

want me to write a book you don't like anything I do.

28:48

But you still decided to

28:50

do it again. Yeah. Another book. I'm

28:52

working on. Yeah. So we

28:55

just did. So I did the first book

28:57

with a co-writer. Okay.

28:59

And her and I just working with the same co-writer

29:01

again we just did like a writing retreat for

29:04

three days in Salt Lake City because I had like a work

29:06

thing out there and we came

29:09

up with like a whole new book

29:11

so I can talk whatever I want to

29:13

about how painful the process was but I obviously

29:15

did it again. It's like

29:18

childbirth. You forget. You're like oh my gosh

29:20

wasn't that the best? And then you get yourself back and do it.

29:23

What I need to do this time is what I did for childbirth

29:25

my last month of pregnancy I made myself

29:27

a video like reminding myself of

29:29

like how horrible it is. I need to do that

29:31

in my like lowest points because you do like once the

29:33

book is out there and you're signing copies and like everyone's

29:36

like great idea. Yeah you're like oh maybe

29:38

it's not so bad. Great.

29:40

What was I even what was I so

29:42

upset about what was so hard? It all came together.

29:45

Yeah. And then you get back into something and you're like oh

29:48

right. So aside from a new

29:50

book what what else do you have in

29:52

the works? What's coming up for you? So

29:54

I mean a lot so I actually want to do even more in

29:57

publishing with some

29:59

like younger age. books.

30:01

So I have kind of been working on that.

30:04

We're now branching out into

30:06

like TV and films. So some of

30:08

the IP from some of our series

30:11

is getting optioned and we're gonna hopefully

30:14

see some of that come to fruition in you know,

30:16

one, two, now there's a writer strike. Maybe 20, 25.

30:20

Again, you want to talk about like

30:22

different verticals. Like the TV process

30:24

is a whole different world. I do not

30:27

understand. Yeah, the whole

30:29

other world. Okay, so

30:31

we like to kind of wrap up every conversation

30:34

with something that we call five minutes for hugs, which

30:36

you know, it's like every good conversation you

30:38

need to allot at least five minutes to hug it out. Just

30:41

some questions for us all to get to know you a little bit better. All

30:43

right. What do you think being from Indianapolis, what

30:45

is the most Midwest thing about you?

30:49

Oh, probably my love of ranch. Dressing.

30:52

Okay, okay.

30:54

Not a hat style. Yeah.

30:57

Okay. I do love a nice ranch style

30:59

home. But no, like, like, we just like always

31:01

have ranch around ranch goes on

31:03

a lot of things. Like, my favorite snack is

31:05

I just mix ranch and mustard with ruffles potato

31:08

chips. Like it's so Midwest.

31:10

Wow. But delicious. Okay, this is really

31:12

interesting. I did not I didn't know

31:14

ranch was associated with Midwest. Oh, yeah.

31:17

Oh, yeah. It's like it's the condiment of the

31:19

Midwest. People are going to come for me.

31:22

I didn't know this either. When I moved

31:24

to Arizona, I went to ASU for school. And

31:26

I remember going to like my first like very

31:29

authentic Mexican restaurant, because we do not have

31:31

very authentic Mexican restaurants where I grew up. And

31:34

I remember them bringing my chips and salsa and me

31:36

asking if they could bring out a side of ranch

31:38

and then looking

31:38

at me. Because

31:41

that's

31:42

the one that I went to where I grew up, they bring

31:44

you ranch with your chips. Oh, my gosh.

31:46

Wow. It really is a thing. Okay. Okay.

31:48

I can't wait to know this is what we're taking away

31:50

from today. Okay. This is great.

31:53

Yeah. Okay. Favorite fictional

31:55

detective?

31:56

Oh, um, Harry Bosch,

31:58

Michael Conley, he's got a a whole like series

32:01

of Harry Bosch. I love the Harry Bosch series.

32:03

I love a Michael Connelly book. I feel like it's just like,

32:05

there are certain authors who just, again,

32:07

it's like a backlog. You know, they are so

32:10

prolific. They have so many books that it's

32:12

like once you get hooked into one, it's just so exciting

32:14

because you can just read and read and

32:17

read. I'm like, thank you, sir, for your service.

32:19

I just want you to keep pumping out

32:21

books all the time. All right. Your

32:24

top travel hack whenever you're

32:25

on the road. Is

32:29

it ranch?

32:29

Well, I feel like I have

32:32

to do with food. So I am known for

32:34

having bedchips

32:35

because I, Britt,

32:38

my best friend calls on my bedchips because I will

32:41

like go and go and go. I forget to eat and

32:43

then I'll get to the point where I'm like so tired. I don't even want

32:45

to go to dinner. I don't want to wait for something to be ordered in.

32:47

And so I always have this like bag of chips

32:50

that I have literally laying with me in

32:52

bed. I will shove chips in my mouth before I fall

32:54

asleep. I love your bed. I love your bed.

32:57

I love bedchips too. I don't have bedchips, but I

32:59

have versions of that. I kind of have bedchips.

33:02

I have a terrible

33:04

habit of flaming hot Cheetos. I love them so

33:06

deeply. The ones with Limon.

33:09

Oh, I like I love. Oh, I thought you're going to see

33:11

different ranch. Oh, no, no, no, no. I

33:13

probably got the coolness of the ranch

33:15

actually might be really good. Okay. What

33:18

is your Oh, no, that's yours.

33:21

This is me. Most used emoji.

33:23

Oh, lately I feel

33:25

like it's been the one where it's like smiling, but like its

33:27

eyes are like a little bit like soft

33:29

because it's like all about my daughter. Like I

33:31

get pictures of her and I'm

33:33

like, Oh, like, oh, so it's the emo

33:36

emo emoji.

33:37

Like the welled up. Yes. Yes. Yes.

33:39

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

33:41

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what is the last

33:43

podcast or TV show you binge? Um,

33:47

the last podcast that I binge

33:50

was one called admissible.

33:53

Absolutely incredible reporting out of

33:55

a new station in Virginia. There

33:58

is this woman who was like as

34:00

being this like angel of forensics

34:03

because after she passed away they found her notebook

34:05

where she like saved clippings from

34:08

like some of her testing and it actually like helped

34:10

get these wrongfully convicted people out

34:13

of jail Wow well small

34:15

spoiler alert but not big because you find it out at the beginning

34:18

she actually might be the reason that

34:20

these people are in jail to begin with because

34:22

there's actually potentially a history of her like

34:25

falsifying lab results. Oh,

34:29

it's bananas everyone needs to listen

34:31

to it it's so good okay that

34:33

is wow I am

34:35

busy and we're supposed to have dinner but like now

34:37

you're gonna dump me for this podcast potentially

34:40

yeah it's okay I can do both I can have one air pod

34:42

in while we're talking yeah that sounds like

34:44

a really engaging dinner really interactive one

34:46

super fun it's super fun well

34:49

Ashley this has been so fun so much

34:51

Ashley and learn I learned so much

34:53

and I think that our main takeaway

34:55

of course is ranch dressing we're gonna we're gonna have

34:57

to come visit Indianapolis and and try

35:00

this I need to experience

35:02

what it's like to get chips and ranch served in bed

35:04

in bed yeah

35:07

I love it I will thank

35:09

you so much Ashley good luck on everything

35:12

thank you bye if you

35:20

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38:38

Okay, now we're going to take a couple of DMs.

38:41

This one is from Ali. How

38:43

do you feel about the last season of Ted

38:45

Lasso? I started watching this because

38:47

of your podcast, and now I'm totally hooked. I'm

38:50

so sad it's ending. I

38:52

can tell you right now with 100% certainty

38:55

Joanna has not seen it. Is that right? I

38:57

have not seen it. Did you finish

38:59

the second season? No.

39:01

No. Did you start the second season? No.

39:04

No. Okay, cool. This

39:06

is going to be a very fun conversation, which I talked to myself. No,

39:09

but let me explain why. Sometimes

39:11

I don't want something to end, and so

39:13

I don't want to start it. I know this

39:15

is really like... No, I think you're right

39:17

actually, and I feel that way too, which is why I haven't

39:19

finished the third season yet. The

39:21

best thing you can do when it ends is to start it over. That's

39:24

what I find. It's good for a rewatch. That's

39:27

true. There are some shows, like Friday

39:29

Night Lights is one of my favorite shows of all time. By

39:32

the way, if anyone hasn't watched Friday Night Lights, I

39:34

need you to trust me here because I have

39:37

spent very minimal time in Texas. I didn't

39:39

really like high school, don't know anything about football,

39:41

and yet it's my favorite show. I

39:44

think it's six seasons. I've now watched

39:46

it three full times over because by

39:48

the time you get to the end, the beginning

39:51

feels like so long ago. That you can start

39:53

it over. You can start it over. I

39:56

understand, Allie, about getting hooked

39:58

on the show. It is the best.

39:59

show. The third

40:02

season so far, we're only

40:04

a few episodes in, is I think

40:06

a little bit of a slower start for

40:08

me, maybe because the end of the second

40:11

season had some issues, and

40:13

which we all know about aside from Joanna. And

40:15

I do know about Oh,

40:18

because you read about it. Yeah. Okay. Just

40:21

watch it. I know. Anyway,

40:23

I don't know what to do other than to restart it, Allie.

40:26

And Joanna is getting the same advice. Okay,

40:29

this is from Kylie. I

40:31

love the pod. Thank you, Kylie. I

40:33

have a question. My husband and I are considering

40:35

moving to the Nashville area from the Midwest.

40:38

Could you walk us through any pros and cons

40:40

you've experienced moving there? I know basically

40:42

nothing about the area.

40:44

Okay. Okay. Well, let's start with Joanna.

40:47

All right. The cons are, well,

40:49

you're in the, you know, whether I was going to say is

40:51

somewhat of a con here, but you're in the

40:53

Midwest. So you really have serious winters.

40:56

So I would say that's probably a pro is

40:58

the, is the winters here are probably a pro for you

41:01

on the flip side. I would say another

41:03

con is the summers here.

41:06

Again, the Midwest, I guess, weather

41:08

here sucks, but I don't know. We

41:11

don't know where in the Midwest she's coming from.

41:13

Yeah.

41:14

You know, Wisconsin in the summer

41:16

is no picnic. So most of

41:18

the place in the summer aren't. All right. So

41:21

I would say that's a negative. Here's another thing we

41:23

need to know specific, like are you in a walking city?

41:25

Are you living in Chicago? Are you living in Madison?

41:27

Like where, where do you live? So that are you in

41:29

Ann Arbor? Like there's, I have a lot of questions

41:31

because Nashville is not

41:32

a walking city. I would say that's a con for Nashville,

41:35

but if you're in a suburb, you know, Midwest

41:37

is the biggest area that we're covering. I

41:39

know we're covering a

41:40

lot of the country. These are specific questions

41:43

that I have on the pro side. The people

41:45

are wonderful. I love the people here. The

41:47

food scene is great

41:49

and getting better all the time. I would

41:52

say, Clea can speak more to activities

41:54

at night. I don't go out, but I

41:57

think that

41:58

I think the nightlife is pretty.

41:59

happening? Is that what people say? People

42:02

definitely don't say that. But I would say the

42:04

thing to expect from Nashville

42:06

that's really unique is

42:09

the music scene. I think music in

42:11

Nashville is, it's real. It's

42:13

not like just like a fake construct

42:15

called Music City, like it's actual,

42:18

like all over the place all around. Most country

42:21

artists live in Nashville. This

42:24

is the life blood here. It's

42:26

our, you know, city's legacy. So like

42:29

it's, it's, and the food is just

42:32

as good. The food is incredible minus

42:34

sushi. That's the con. There's only one

42:36

good sushi place in Nashville, in my opinion. And

42:39

I mean, the pros

42:41

far outweigh the cons.

42:43

The pros are definitely the people,

42:45

the kindness, the generosity. It's

42:48

beautiful. It's green. It's

42:50

lush. You're actually in a good location

42:53

to get to the East Coast or the West Coast. Again, we don't know your lifestyle,

42:55

but should you need to get to East and West, it's relatively

42:58

fast. Or mid. Mid or mid. Very

43:00

close to the middle. We're pretty in the middle of the country. So

43:03

it's actually very easy to get places. What

43:06

else would I say is a pro? It's a really

43:08

good place to raise kids. It really, really

43:10

is. Any other pros that we can think of? I

43:13

think we've hit a lot. Okay, I'm very

43:15

curious. So please write back and tell us who you are.

43:17

We need a lot of specifics here, please. Okay,

43:20

that is it for this episode. Make

43:22

sure to keep in touch with us at Best Friend Energy

43:24

on Instagram and TikTok or

43:26

visit us at bestfriendenergypod.com.

43:29

Bye, guys.

43:30

Bye.

43:33

Thank

43:33

you so much for joining us on Best Friend

43:35

Energy. We're back every Tuesday with

43:38

a new episode. Follow the show on

43:40

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43:42

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43:47

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43:49

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43:52

Engineering and Mixing by National Audio Productions.

43:55

Our Senior Producer is Rebecca Kaufman. Our

43:57

Associate Producer is Tammy York. Executive

44:00

producers at The Home Edit and Hello Sunshine are

44:02

Lauren Lagarde, Hillary Franche, and

44:05

us. See you next time.

44:15

This episode of Best Friend Energy is supported

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by The Home

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