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Tuesdays. Wherever you get your podcasts. Lemon

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other. Hi

1:44

listeners were dropping in your feed right

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1:48

We When a new series from Limit

1:50

on a Medium. My Rupert as an

1:52

experienced campaign manager and races from New

1:54

York City Mayor to Us President and

1:56

she knows first hand the power of

1:59

representation and leaders. Join

2:01

her on When We Win, a new

2:03

podcast from Lemon Automedia, as she hears

2:05

stories of the transformation that women of

2:07

color are bringing to the political world.

2:10

In each episode, she discusses the people

2:12

and current races that are pushing the

2:14

boundaries and reshaping our political system so

2:16

it can better support women of color's

2:19

sustained political leadership. After you

2:21

listen to this clip, search for When We Win with

2:23

Maya Rupert in your podcast app to hear the rest

2:25

of the episode. You can also find a link in

2:28

the show notes that will take you right there. Enjoy!

2:36

The future is seeming. Let

2:38

Black women lead. Latina's fight,

2:41

Latina's win. Elect

2:43

women. Over

2:45

the last several election cycles, we have

2:48

put more and more calls for

2:50

greater representation in our political leadership.

2:52

Women, especially women of color,

2:54

have been called on to run for office

2:57

by voters who said they were ready for

2:59

change and ready to vote for them. But

3:02

the outcome of those races is a different

3:04

story. Despite more

3:06

women of color winning in each

3:08

election cycle, we remain globally

3:10

underrepresented in elected office. And

3:13

the same women candidates that voters

3:16

beg to run are often still

3:18

losing those races. And

3:20

it's no wonder our political

3:22

system, the way we run

3:25

campaigns, judge campaigns, and talk

3:27

about their ability to succeed wasn't

3:29

designed with women of color in mind. The

3:32

world in which candidates run for office has transformed

3:35

so much in recent years. That

3:38

means we need to change the way we run, to elect

3:41

new types of candidates in a new

3:43

political world. It's time

3:45

for a new campaign playbook. That's

3:48

why I'm talking to some of the most exciting

3:50

women of color in office today. I'm

3:53

Maya Rupert. Welcome to When We

3:55

Win. The

4:00

caller who need for the

4:02

conventional. Wisdom Zipper, the campaigning that

4:04

they silence. What

4:08

we can learn from having of. Authenticity

4:17

is one of those things that somehow

4:19

seems to mean everything and nothing. And

4:21

politics. And this is especially true for

4:23

women of color. When

4:25

we run. Our authenticity is demand

4:27

it. But. It's also placed

4:29

under a microscope. Were. Told

4:31

that we must win the voters in our

4:34

own community, but that we must also appealed

4:36

the white. Voters in order to be

4:38

taken seriously and make everyone feel

4:40

like we're being unapologetically ourselves the

4:42

entire time. And. Upholding

4:44

all of this at the same time gets

4:46

too heavy for. A candidate we

4:48

questioned for authenticity. And

4:51

team her unelectable. This

4:54

same double bind doesn't exist for white

4:56

male candidates. Largely because we

4:59

have so many narratives that they

5:01

can authentically embody. White men can

5:03

be the plainspoken truth teller, the

5:05

erudite wordsmith, the toss and principled

5:08

war hero, When it comes

5:10

to women of color, We. Have

5:12

Fewer example. So these candidates are

5:14

unceremoniously shoved into the few narrow

5:17

models that we've seen before. And

5:20

failure to sit within those visions means

5:22

voters are less likely to find their

5:24

narrative resident. Spin.

5:27

Exactly who you are as a privilege that's only

5:29

ever afford it. To those who have never had

5:31

to answer the question, who do you think you

5:33

are. So the yardstick for

5:35

authenticity has white men, as it's true,

5:38

zero. But. New candidates are

5:40

ready to change. All of that. I

5:42

do solemnly swear to support the constitution of

5:45

the United States of America and of the

5:47

State of Minnesota and that I would discharged

5:49

faithfully the duties devolve in upon me as

5:51

a city council number. And

5:58

January Nineteen Twenty Twenty four. The

6:00

first all women city council in

6:03

St. Paul, Minnesota officially took office.

6:05

And six out of the seven members are women

6:08

of color. For the first time in

6:10

US history, a majority American city of our size

6:12

has elected a council and a city council

6:14

of all women and a super majority women

6:16

of color. What is a big

6:18

deal for St. Paul? As recently as 2017,

6:22

there wasn't a single woman of color on the council.

6:25

Let's just say a whole lot of

6:27

people who are comfortable with majority male

6:29

majority white institutions for nearly 170 years

6:32

of city history are suddenly shockedly concerned

6:34

about representation. My

6:37

thoughts and prayers are with them in this challenge. It's

6:41

an incredible story. In order

6:44

to help me tell it today, I'm joined

6:46

by Mitra Gilali, the council president

6:48

and Shaniqua Johnson, a recently elected

6:50

council member. Mitra

6:52

is the trailblazer of the council. When

6:55

the Korean Iranian organizer won a special

6:58

election in 2018, she

7:00

became the second woman of color, the

7:02

first Asian woman and the first openly

7:04

queer person to serve on the council.

7:07

She was the youngest member of that

7:09

council, the only renter and almost certainly

7:11

the furthest to the left politically. In

7:14

the five years since, she's become

7:17

a political powerhouse in St. Paul

7:19

and helped mentor the next generation

7:21

of women of color in elected

7:23

office. Shaniqua Johnson

7:26

is one of the members of that next generation. A

7:29

black woman, she was born and

7:31

raised in Worthington, Minnesota, a small rural

7:33

town near Minnesota's border with Iowa and

7:35

South Dakota. She made

7:38

history in 2018 when she

7:40

became the first woman of color ever to

7:42

run for state representative in that area. She

7:45

lost that race but continued to be

7:47

very involved in politics, moving to the

7:49

city who worked for a who's who

7:51

of Minnesota politicians. That

7:53

experience paid off with her election to

7:55

the St. Paul Center. Mitra

7:59

Shaniqua. Welcome to when

8:01

we when. Thank. You

8:03

so much for having us. I'm just

8:05

incredibly excited to be having this conversation

8:07

with the what I want to start

8:09

off and really just kind of talk

8:11

a little bit about how you all

8:13

got elected. You both ran for office

8:15

for the first time in twenty teams.

8:17

Meet me Trip A: You are running

8:19

for city council, city quotes you ran

8:21

for state wrap up but you were

8:23

running from very different sort of areas

8:25

and I want to talk a little

8:28

bit just about what was it like

8:30

being women of color running for office

8:32

from urban. And rural communities. How how

8:34

did that play out for you to? I

8:36

just have would love to hear you both

8:38

speak to those experiences. I'm

8:41

feeling a different life time. To

8:43

think about that, I'm meters a

8:45

Lollies has a really fun podcast

8:47

experience. We already! I love this.

8:51

And. Twenty T. I think about like

8:54

where we were in society, right? And

8:56

you know Donald Trump had been elected

8:58

President. least felt like we were still

9:00

in the throes of that. I was

9:03

working in a congressional office I was

9:05

helping constituents with like immigration casework which

9:07

was brutal. There were terrible things happening

9:09

to our constituents under the Trump administration.

9:12

Ah, and it there was this. this.

9:14

like. The. National.

9:17

Anger and like sense of injustice and

9:19

fear and a special election opened up

9:21

in on the city that I live

9:23

in and love St. Paul and I

9:25

got to the whole bunch of text

9:27

messages all at once like you should

9:29

think about running for the seed I

9:32

think he should run for the seeds.

9:34

And. I just had

9:36

this sense of like. Just

9:39

calling and desire to.

9:42

Do. Something in the local conversation in

9:44

time where it felt like. Everything

9:46

in our national. Realm

9:48

was very broken and so that

9:51

ended up being a year where.

9:54

a lot of women of color kind

9:56

of like came into the collective political

9:58

consciousness at once like in the

10:00

national scene, that is the year

10:03

that our now Congresswoman Ilhan Omar,

10:05

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I

10:08

think Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib,

10:11

Congresswoman Anna Presley, like all of those women of

10:13

color got elected on the

10:15

national level and it was a big

10:17

deal. And then locally, myself, Irene

10:19

Fernando, and Angela Conley were like three women of

10:21

color that ran to that point.

10:23

We just hadn't really seen that

10:25

many women of color candidates. We certainly like see

10:28

Ilhan was our state rep and things like that.

10:30

But it was, that genesis feels clear to me

10:32

as I look back on it. So that

10:34

first election for me felt like I

10:37

was just stepping out as Mitra to

10:39

define myself in terms of what our

10:41

St. Paul community cared about. And

10:43

also like just really wanting to be myself,

10:45

like just wanting to not

10:48

hide who I am in terms of

10:50

like my personality and what I

10:52

care about and what I'm into, but to

10:54

really be like very focused on, you

10:56

know, St. Paul voters need housing

10:58

stability. They need a community safety

11:01

system. They need like community centered

11:03

economic development. They need like a

11:05

sustainable resilient city as we look

11:07

at climate change. So all

11:10

of that was like what propelled me into

11:12

public service. And what was

11:14

really wild, and this will probably pivot to

11:16

Shaniqua in a nice way is when

11:19

I went through, like I ran again in 2019, I ran again in 2023, just

11:23

last year. So I have run for this job three

11:26

times in five years. The sidebar

11:28

feels very like worked three times

11:30

as hard for half as much time in the same

11:32

job type of thing. But like, that's

11:34

my story. And when a

11:36

bunch of women of color in the next major

11:38

cycle also all started running

11:41

for office and they were sharing in

11:43

the group chat, like comments they were getting

11:45

reactions, they were getting pushback backlash, things like

11:47

that. I felt strangely validated like

11:49

five years after going through it almost entirely by

11:51

myself because I was like, Oh, so this is

11:54

just what people are like, this is just what

11:56

they're doing to us. Like, you're

11:58

either too qualified or not qualified enough. you

12:00

either look like you were

12:02

smiling and that's inappropriate or you weren't

12:04

smiling and that was inappropriate, just

12:07

all of it, all of it. And

12:09

so I got a second unexpected

12:11

wave of empowerment, like being

12:14

so in this very closely with the

12:17

wave of candidates that Shaniqua was a part of and

12:20

all of that feels very connected and meaningful and personal to

12:22

me. So that's some of what it

12:24

was like. Thank

12:27

you. I would love to delve more into some

12:29

of that text chain and to hear a little

12:31

bit about the experiences, but Shaniqua, I think that

12:34

does actually bring us really nicely then to you

12:36

to talk a little bit about your experience in 2018. I

12:40

think, just kind of carrying on with what Council

12:43

President Jollaw had mentioned, one of the things

12:45

I think is super important

12:48

about my journey too is that

12:50

it has just been a little bit of all

12:52

around the state of Minnesota,

12:55

as far as just like kind of finding, for

12:57

me a lot of times it was finding my

12:59

political voice. As somebody who was

13:01

born and raised in rural Minnesota, I

13:03

often did not talk about politics, not at the

13:05

dinner table, like our family voted, but it was

13:08

kind of like, there's an election coming up, but

13:10

there wasn't really much emphasis, especially

13:13

on just like running for office.

13:15

My mom often asks me like,

13:18

what made you get into politics and why

13:21

are you doing this work? I think

13:23

I got into politics really

13:26

because I genuinely

13:29

was very baffled by how many people

13:31

would be like, hey, Shaniqua,

13:33

where are you from? And I would say, I'm

13:36

from Worthington, Minnesota. And they would say, where's that?

13:38

And I'm like, it's a small town, just

13:41

south of Mankato. And then they would be like, there

13:43

are black people there? Wow.

13:46

And you're just like, okay. And then you go, oh, I'm

13:48

from the, I actually represent the east side.

13:50

Oh, we're on the east side and Ward seven. Oh,

13:53

okay, where is that? And they're like,

13:55

oh, the east side, wow. And

13:57

I was like, listen, I'm going to need you to care about.

14:00

our communities because we have work to be

14:02

done. I'm gonna need the WOWs to stop. You

14:04

should not be surprised when you come in

14:06

contact with like one black person

14:09

from one community or one area. And

14:11

then I would recognize though in the

14:13

same breath, right, we just had that

14:15

conversation the next minute you'd be making

14:18

a decision that quite literally easily could

14:20

harm that same black person you just

14:22

had contact with but you don't feel

14:24

the need to contact me then. You don't feel

14:26

the need to invite me then to make a

14:28

decision with you or to have a conversation with

14:30

you about the impact it's gonna have on my

14:32

family or on the impact it's

14:35

gonna have on my household. And it

14:37

felt very stark like the invitation to

14:39

political spaces or maybe the lack thereof

14:41

for people like me with my experience

14:45

with my background,

14:47

my story, that it's like

14:50

you know a lot of this work in politics for me has

14:52

been about not just like what

14:54

it feels like in the moment but the

14:56

long-term game and knowing that a lot of

14:58

policies that are made that impact families like

15:00

mine were often done without people like us that

15:02

were at the table. And so

15:05

that for me has been like a huge part of

15:07

the journey of the spaces like even the campaigns that

15:09

I work on the elected officials I've come to know

15:11

and grow to really appreciate but for sure when it

15:13

came down to running on the east side of St.

15:15

Paul you find the full circle

15:18

of just like wow I've had these conversations

15:20

with neighbors in Worthington just like I've had

15:22

these conversations with neighbors in Battle Creek and

15:24

St. Paul and some of the

15:26

same concerns that were issued to them like

15:28

overall with access to knowing what a local

15:31

government person does you know like

15:33

a lot of the questions people are like you must have

15:35

had some really hard questions and I'm like a lot

15:37

of times it was like well can you tell me

15:39

what a city council member does because I've never met

15:42

my council member. When I was in rural Minnesota it

15:44

was like can you tell me you know

15:46

a little bit more about what a state representative does because

15:48

I've also never met my state representative

15:50

you know I think for me it was

15:53

transitioning from understanding state government and federal

15:55

government to understanding that I wanted to

15:57

advocate and join the fight here and

15:59

say call around things that

16:01

were as simple as potholes. Potholes,

16:04

snow removal, two of the most

16:07

loud-spoken issues here when we were

16:09

thinking about just everyday activities in

16:11

Minnesota. You have to get through,

16:13

you know, our city still has to function sometimes with

16:15

several feet of snow. How we get

16:17

to and from work is really important to the average person.

16:21

And as a city council member, every decision

16:23

that I make in that regard impacts the

16:25

day-to-day lives of people that we currently experience.

16:29

You know, both Mitra and I go right back home to

16:31

our wards every night. And so

16:33

we also feel the impacts of what we do.

16:35

And for me, that's really motivating when it comes

16:37

to just thinking about what the future looks like

16:40

and what it hasn't looked like in the past. Absolutely.

16:42

And I think you both sort of

16:44

touched on something, you

16:46

know, that it's about everyday people. So everyone

16:49

should feel welcome in our political system, but

16:51

we know that that is not always true.

16:53

And I think, Mitra, you

16:55

sort of indicated that you felt in

16:58

some ways kind of alone in some of the

17:00

stuff that you were facing. And it was, you

17:02

know, knowing other people felt some of those same

17:05

barriers. Obviously, it's not good, but it's sort of

17:07

like there's sort of almost solidarity in that understanding

17:09

that that's just some of what it means to

17:11

be a woman of color doing some of this

17:14

work. I wonder if you all have examples

17:16

of some of the things that you either

17:18

you heard yourself or you someone

17:20

else came to you with just examples of the

17:22

kinds of things that people would say to you

17:24

or ask of you

17:26

that you feel like were specifically being

17:29

posed to you because of your identities

17:31

and how that impacted your willingness to

17:33

keep going with it. Yeah,

17:37

like the one I remember the most

17:39

in 2018 was she's not like really

17:41

from here. And I was

17:43

like, okay, so are we gonna like have

17:45

a conversation about like perpetual foreigner syndrome and

17:47

like how people treat Asian Americans like, right,

17:50

that what we're doing in 2018. And

17:53

like I was born and raised in

17:55

Minnesota. I like have this

17:58

Twin Cities family story. story, and

18:01

frankly, Greater Minnesota family story. I mean, my

18:03

parents are from Korea and Iran, they like

18:05

individually found their way to Greater Minnesota, and

18:07

then they found each other and then they

18:09

relocated to the Twin Cities. And then I

18:11

was raised all over Minneapolis and St. Paul

18:13

in the suburbs, and then back in Minneapolis

18:16

and back in St. Paul. And it's like,

18:19

I felt a stark

18:21

contrast between having like so

18:23

much connection to this place, but because

18:25

of how I look being questioned, and

18:27

then my opponent and her

18:29

supporters who were like really pushing this narrative

18:31

at the time, she was an older

18:34

white woman. She lived

18:36

in like a much wealthier part of the ward. She

18:39

moved here from like Iowa. And

18:41

she was doing the like, you know, I've been

18:43

a homeowner here for 20 years. And it was

18:46

just like such a palpable contrast. And my whole

18:48

thing was, we're not like doing that

18:50

anymore in our city. If you live here, you have

18:52

a stake in whether it works well or not. You

18:55

should run on your vision and values and what you're willing

18:57

to do as a council member, not like, I've

18:59

lived here for 20 years, and therefore I get

19:02

to like have more clout and say, it doesn't

19:04

mean we shouldn't listen to residents with a very

19:06

long view of our city. But

19:08

it certainly means is that we shouldn't

19:11

exclude people who haven't lived

19:13

here as long because of their perspective.

19:15

And we also should

19:17

not perpetuate racism

19:20

in like our criticisms of candidates. So

19:22

like that's just a 2018 example I

19:24

can think of. But it's just like,

19:26

you know, I'm in this place in

19:28

my career right now, we're like, I

19:32

feel almost aggressively bored with all

19:35

that. And I'm just like, anyway, like it's

19:37

2023. We're here to do a job. These

19:40

systems aren't working. Minnesota is

19:42

a place where the failure of

19:45

our systems exploded outward in like the most

19:47

painful way on an international stage in 2020.

19:49

And, you know, we

19:52

sent a trifecta to the legislature to like get

19:54

what needs to be done done. And now our

19:56

city councils look the way they look just coming

19:58

off this cycle. So I'm saying

20:00

this to say it used to really like pull

20:02

at me more. And now I'm

20:05

like, this is just a pebble in my shoe. Like

20:07

sometimes a person will say something

20:10

and it just like sings, but then I'm like, I just

20:13

flick it off. It doesn't mean those

20:15

thousand paper cuts aren't there, but I have had

20:17

to just forge ahead because like, we

20:20

just don't have time for that anymore. And if you

20:22

stop and address every single thing, like

20:24

you would never get anything done. So it's

20:26

always this tension between, no, I

20:29

am going to like call out how this isn't

20:31

right for our culture and we deserve better, but

20:33

also there's times where like derailing the work from

20:35

that is not the right movie there. It's always

20:37

that balance that I feel like I've had to

20:40

forge. So yeah. And I found

20:42

it really interesting to see just how people have,

20:44

or they assume based off

20:46

of what they were doing at my age, that

20:48

somehow that means that I'm doing the same thing.

20:51

You know, I'm, I'm 28 years old and the amount of

20:53

times that I hear people at the door be like, you

20:55

know, when I was 28, I wasn't doing X, Y, and

20:57

Z. And I'm like,

20:59

you know, that's you. Not

21:02

me. Yes. You're in this space where you're

21:04

talking to people at times. Like it just

21:06

feels like they assume based off of your

21:09

age, that somehow you are less qualified than

21:11

the person who's twice your age. And it's

21:13

such a interesting example

21:15

of hypocrisy when you're not understanding that a

21:17

lot of the young people, uh, that

21:20

are in our current political system are often

21:22

the people running campaigns. They are often people

21:25

getting hired to write the legislation, advocate for

21:27

the bills at every level of government. They

21:29

are the people on Capitol Hill. And

21:32

I know that because, you know, I am that

21:34

person. I am that person who's been able to

21:36

do that work. And you find

21:38

that sometimes people may assume your lived experience

21:40

for you. And I feel like

21:43

that is, you know, everything that's happened that happened

21:45

that Mitra gave in that example in 2018, a

21:47

hundred percent happened to me on the campaign trail

21:49

20 years plus, including the people who came before

21:51

her. So when you just think

21:54

about like how the faces are changing, it's

21:56

important to also understand that ward seven had

21:58

almost a. third of the

22:00

population under the age of 35. So when

22:03

we think about representation and just people that,

22:05

you know, that piece is often used, I

22:07

think, against people, I started to see things

22:09

like in campaign ads that for my opponents

22:11

that were like, she's the mature choice. What

22:14

does that mean? It's so subtle. I love

22:16

the subtlety. Yes. Wow. So,

22:23

you know, somehow you're just like,

22:25

how? Absolutely. So I wanted

22:28

to hear some of those stories specifically,

22:30

and I appreciate both of you for sharing

22:32

them because it's incredibly generous, but also, Mitra,

22:34

to the point you were making, I

22:37

completely agree. This is the kind of stuff that

22:39

we have to say, you know, it's

22:41

not worth it to address every

22:43

single incident, but I do think

22:45

it's so important for people who

22:47

are hearing the story about this

22:49

historic, all-woman city council right now

22:52

to know that it didn't happen without some

22:54

of those things. It happened in spite of

22:56

those things, right? So I appreciate these stories

22:58

because I think they say a lot

23:01

about the resilience of when

23:03

we're successful, this kind

23:05

of stuff still happens, but people are resilient

23:07

enough to move fast. So I

23:09

really do appreciate those stories. We're

23:14

going to take a close by, but we'll be right back

23:16

with more. I'm going to move on. Hello,

23:24

hello, hello. I am Jose

23:27

Andres. Maybe you know

23:29

me from my restaurants or maybe

23:31

from Wall Central Kitchen, the

23:33

organization I founded to feed

23:35

people after disasters. Well,

23:38

it's time for you to know

23:40

my podcast, Longer Tables.

23:43

Each episode, I get to know fascinating

23:46

people in the most intimate

23:49

way, through food. I

23:52

will answer questions from listeners. too.

24:01

Join me in building longer tables,

24:03

not higher walls, whatever

24:06

you get your podcasts. Hey

24:10

friends, it's Megan Trainer. And

24:12

her big bro Ryan Trainer. And

24:14

her husband, Darryl Sabara. Each week

24:16

on our podcast working on it, we

24:18

share behind the scenes stories and bring

24:21

you into our hilarious and heartfelt conversations,

24:23

sometimes with amazing guests. We

24:25

tackle everything from navigating Hollywood to mental

24:27

health to Megan becoming a mother, Darryl

24:29

becoming a father, and so much more.

24:31

We'll get into the nitty gritty of

24:34

our lives and leave no detail behind.

24:36

Prepare to laugh, cry, and hopefully learn

24:38

something new. Listen to new episodes

24:40

out every Wednesday wherever you get your

24:42

podcasts.