0:06

Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks

0:09

for listening to the Believe Big podcast,

0:11

the show where we take a deep dive into your

0:13

healing with health experts, a integrative

0:16

practitioners biblical faith leaders,

0:19

and cancer thrivers from around

0:21

the globe. Welcome

0:34

to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My

0:37

name is Ivelisse Page and it's

0:39

an honor to spend this time with you. Cancer

0:43

a word that strikes fear into the hearts of

0:45

many. It's a battle that millions

0:47

of people around the world face every day affecting

0:50

not only their physical health, but also

0:52

challenging them emotionally, spiritually,

0:55

and mentally. Yet

0:57

with this harrowing fight, we often discover

0:59

incredible stories of strength

1:01

that inspire us all. One

1:03

of these individuals is here with us today

1:06

to share his story of resilience.

1:09

Our friend Daniel Wellington was diagnosed

1:11

with stage four sarcoma in 2019.

1:15

A rare form with less than a hundred

1:17

cases a year with no effective conventional

1:19

treatment available. They told

1:21

Daniel he would be incapacitated at

1:24

the end of four years, and yet

1:26

he is here today living and thriving.

1:29

Daniel has been married to his beautiful

1:31

wife, Joanne, for 13 years, and

1:33

together they have five children.

1:35

Welcome Daniel to the show.

1:37

Thank you for having me. Me

1:39

So we always love

1:41

to start our episode by

1:43

finding out what our guest's favorite health

1:45

tip is, and I know you have a few,

1:47

so can you share one with us?

1:49

The most important one to me is if

1:52

it's gonna sound a little abstract, but

1:54

would be to embrace and have fun

1:56

on a mindfulness journey. All the healing

1:58

I believe in your mind and in your body

2:00

starts there. Also I would

2:02

say more tangible is

2:05

don't, if you're on a self-healing journey, don't

2:07

live a life of guilt because it can take

2:09

over. And also related

2:11

to guilt, enjoy your guilty pleasures

2:14

like your chocolate chip cookie. I heard a few episodes

2:16

ago, I was like, I love that. I like that.

2:18

Although I wouldn't stop like you do, I, I enjoy

2:20

it. I thought that was a great point you made.

2:22

Well, I love those tips. Embracing

2:25

fun, I think that's something that as we

2:27

get older, we sometimes forget to do

2:30

and we get so oriented with our day-to-day

2:32

tasks. And even when you're on a cancering

2:34

journey, you're so focused on the cancer

2:36

that we don't take time to sit back and just

2:38

have fun and do childlike

2:41

things that we used to do. Run through a sprinkler

2:44

or draw with chalk on your driveway,

2:46

put a positive message on there. I read

2:48

that earlier today and I'm like, I'm gonna

2:50

do that. So you're just confirmation

2:53

that I need to embrace more fun and have

2:55

more childlike fun in my

2:57

life. So that's a great tip.

2:59

Can you share with us about how you found

3:01

out you had cancer and what you experienced?

3:05

Everybody gets surprised, but I was having

3:07

some chest pains and I went in to go through the whole

3:09

cardiology thing and everything

3:11

was wonderful. I was on the treadmill running like

3:13

crazy, no issues at all. And he said,

3:15

you're fine, but you might wanna stop downstairs and

3:17

get a calcium scan of your

3:20

chest, your heart. I had done that before and

3:22

I kind of liked that, so I was like, okay, I'll stop

3:24

down and get it. And it was really easy and I got

3:26

a call from him. He said, your heart's great, but there's a lot

3:28

of spots on your lungs, something going

3:30

on there. And of course, that we were really hopeful for

3:33

a nasty infection, a fungal type

3:35

thing or something. And as it turned out,

3:37

I had and I still have maybe about 80

3:39

to a hundred little tumors hanging about

3:41

there. When they did a biopsy

3:44

they found out what type of cancer, extraskeletal

3:46

myxoid chondrosarcoma. And

3:48

then they realized that it had started somewhere

3:50

else. And as a deep tissue cancer with men,

3:53

it usually starts somewhere in the

3:55

legs or other soft tissue areas.

3:57

And it started with me and my right hip. So

3:59

he took out a baseball size tumor

4:01

outta my right hip. But, that was more just

4:04

for comfort. They didn't get the clean margins,

4:06

but it definitely is more comfortable. And,

4:08

the rest of it is I'm just working to self-heal

4:10

with the lung issues.

4:12

So did you have any other symptoms

4:14

with what you were experiencing at

4:16

the time?

4:17

I think I remember like in my hip, just

4:19

a pain, a throbbing pain where the tumor

4:21

was, but that's a weird thing about being

4:23

in your fifties. You don't know whether it's just something

4:25

in your fifties or if you have a legitimate

4:27

pain. So I probably wouldn't have done anything

4:29

about it, and it was kind of a long route

4:32

to get to.

4:32

Yeah. I hear that. Jimmy wakes up sometimes

4:34

and he is like, man, my back's hurting a little

4:37

bit more today. And he lifts and he runs

4:39

and he is super active, but,

4:41

he's like, I'm not taking that. He says I'm 56

4:44

and I'm gonna keep going and work

4:46

to be pain free. So, but

4:49

yeah, so I can understand that being at

4:51

the age that we are that that's not something

4:53

that we would see was out of the ordinary.

4:56

And so after hearing that it was cancer

4:59

and that it was rare and that there weren't

5:01

any conventional treatments, really, how

5:04

did you process that?

5:05

Oh gosh, probably just a normal

5:07

way. Lots of fear. Lot of surprise.

5:10

All normal stuff. And then I'm fairly

5:12

pragmatic, so actually, I can't take full

5:15

credit. My sister-in-law, Maria, suggested

5:17

a book and it was Dr. Kelly Turner's

5:19

book, Radical Remission. And that

5:21

was my starting into research and thank

5:24

God I started there because what

5:26

an easy read and what a way to gain

5:28

some hope and get some ideas. And

5:30

what it did is just open up a fountain

5:32

of other books and other reading from very

5:34

technical stuff like Jane McLellan

5:37

or, Nasha Winters to more

5:40

spiritual stuff like Michael Singer and

5:42

other people that you kind of write in that way. So

5:44

after a period of worry and

5:46

fear and the other people around me kind of worried

5:49

and being fearful, then we kind of leaned into

5:51

it and decided to go to work on trying to self-heal.

5:54

So that's the journey I live on today.

5:55

Well, thank goodness for those books. I mean,

5:58

they are incredible resources and

6:00

for those who don't know, Dr. Turner's

6:02

book, Radical Remission or Radical Hope, she

6:05

interviewed over a thousand patients

6:07

who had a less than 25% chance

6:09

of survival and are still here today.

6:12

And she realized that there were now

6:14

10 key factors that attributed

6:16

to each of them healing.

6:18

We actually did a podcast with her earlier

6:20

in the year. If anyone wants to check it out or we can

6:22

put them in the notes for people to

6:25

listen to the link. But it's fascinating

6:27

to hear all the ways that people

6:29

have healed and we're told that their

6:31

chances of survival weren't great. Can

6:33

you share with us some of the things

6:35

that you incorporated into your healing

6:37

journey after reading those and investigating

6:40

other options?

6:41

Yes, I can share a lot. I

6:44

do want to start and go back to the beginning, to

6:46

the tip because a little piece that might

6:48

have been lost is embrace and

6:50

have fun on a mindfulness practice.

6:52

And the mindfulness part you talk about it

6:55

a lot it's no surprise to you. It

6:57

is a surprise to me because I'm a very

6:59

average guy. I didn't grow

7:02

up in a faith-based environment. Hard

7:04

work and rolling up my sleeves and just pounding

7:07

the hell out of every nail that I could find was

7:09

really how I lived my life. But the

7:11

mindfulness piece was the

7:13

part that I had seen you know, in college

7:15

and in work activities and things like, wow,

7:17

this is really interesting but I never really

7:20

made it part of my life. And

7:23

it wasn't until I read Dr. Turner's book

7:25

and it was like, of the nine now it's 10,

7:27

I was like, whoa. Most of these things are not scientific

7:30

things. First of all, they're really easy so somebody

7:32

like me can understand it. And two,

7:34

the part about the mindfulness part and about

7:36

being positive was something that I really enjoyed.

7:39

And I still enjoy and I'm still going

7:41

deeper and deeper with it cuz I do think that

7:43

is the key to all the healing. And,

7:46

it started off with some meditations,

7:49

Hey, this is really nice, and it got

7:51

me calm. And then what I started

7:53

to realize is that I could start to see

7:55

the practical, and that was I could finally

7:58

figure out how to be here right now.

8:00

And my daughter Josie taught me a little bit

8:02

more about that, and we might talk about that later. But,

8:05

when I think about the skill of being present,

8:08

people think it's, sometimes it's a little

8:10

bit heady or maybe it's not in the arena. Again,

8:12

if you're hearing it from me, then you know it can be

8:14

done by you. But the beautiful

8:16

part about it is I realized that I

8:19

spent a lot of time thinking about the past,

8:21

and the past could have been like five minutes ago,

8:23

and some kind of traffic rage

8:26

incident, me being mad. It

8:28

could have been 20 years ago, being mad at my mom.

8:31

It could have been anything in those

8:33

moments. And if you have only so

8:35

many energy units a day and you're spending time

8:37

thinking about the past, and now as

8:39

Michael Singer talks about it in The Untethered

8:41

Soul, the pendulum swings the other way, and now

8:44

you're into the future. And you're worrying

8:46

about, okay, what's gonna happen on that next scan?

8:48

How's my blood work gonna come back? Also,

8:51

is my kid gonna graduate from college? How

8:53

are they feeling about this cancer stuff? And you start

8:55

worrying about all that. And it really can be a full-time

8:58

job, at least with me, and spending all that time in the

9:00

past, and the present. But when the pendulum is

9:02

in the middle, then you're present and then you

9:04

start to really see, with the joy

9:07

of presentness and being here

9:09

and what it gives you and what you can see

9:11

and what's laid on your doorstep

9:13

that you're like, gosh, how did I miss this?

9:16

How did I miss this all this time? And

9:19

so, then the messages

9:21

and the gifts present themselves

9:23

and I still have a long way to go. I shouldn't even act like,

9:25

compared to some other people that you've interviewed, I

9:27

can't even act like I'm an expert at it. But I am

9:29

really digging getting into this. This

9:31

is so cool. I'm on the right path

9:34

and that I believe that this is the key to my

9:36

physical healing.

9:37

Yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent. And I

9:39

think that we don't even realize

9:41

our world is so focused on the physical side

9:44

of healing, and as her book shares that

9:46

only three out of the 10 are physical

9:49

aspects of your healing. The rest

9:51

are social support and emotional

9:53

support and meditation and prayer and things like

9:55

that. So yeah, we don't realize

9:57

that we may unintentionally be

9:59

stressed or harboring resentment

10:02

or other things in our lives that is preventing

10:04

us from healing and allowing our body to be

10:06

rest and and repair mode, and

10:08

to be at peace and be in the present

10:11

and enjoy the moment. So I agree

10:13

that is such a huge value to add in

10:15

any journey and in our lives today.

10:18

One of the things that I really enjoy listening

10:20

to, I have a prayer time in

10:22

the morning, but before I start, I listen

10:25

to John Eldridge has an

10:27

app called The Pause App, and

10:30

there's one called 30 Days to

10:32

A Resilient Life, and it

10:34

goes through prompts

10:36

and meditations on the emotions

10:38

and then on mental capacity

10:41

and strength and physical. So it goes

10:43

through that throughout the month, 10 minutes

10:45

in the morning, 10 minutes a night. And it is

10:47

so peaceful and it

10:49

really sets you in a place where you can be

10:52

in the present to hear from God

10:54

and the messages that are for you in that

10:56

day. So I love that you shared

10:58

that. And I would love to know,

11:01

I'm gonna skip ahead cuz you

11:03

touched on it and I really wanna make sure that

11:05

we hear about that on

11:07

this podcast and it's your word

11:09

that your daughter shared with

11:11

you and taught you. And

11:13

it's called ULLABETTA say

11:15

that

11:15

for me cuz I'm sure I'm not saying it correctly,

11:17

but share with us what that is

11:20

and what it means and what she taught you

11:22

through that.

11:23

Well, thank you for giving me the chance to talk

11:25

about that. I don't think it can be sound. I

11:27

don't think it can be pronounced wrong. There

11:29

is a story with it and I think it's worth

11:31

sharing. So in the early stages of

11:34

my cancer diagnosis I was

11:36

kind of cycling through the emotions and like most

11:39

adults and I have young children, you're doing

11:41

what you can to shield your kids from that. In

11:43

the early stages, you're like, how do I

11:45

keep this almost a secret

11:47

and be the dad that I always am

11:49

and then be doing this on the side?

11:52

Of course, once I got further into my education, I realized

11:54

that hey, being open and talking about these things

11:56

is the best way, but I wasn't there yet

11:58

and I was really kind of struggling.

12:01

The scans were showing growth

12:03

and on one particular day, I think it was June,

12:05

and I was putting the kids down saying prayers

12:08

and I was really hot to get downstairs

12:10

and watch some tv, so I didn't have to think about

12:12

anything else. Everybody has the trash TV

12:14

that will always take you away from your thoughts and

12:17

I'm no exception. So, I'm

12:19

heading down the stairs and all of a sudden I hear

12:21

my Josephine, Josie giggling,

12:23

she's eight. Giggling in our household that's

12:25

common, thank God. But, I get to the bottom of

12:27

the steps. I'm a little bit irritated and I'm thinking

12:30

to myself, hey, Josie go back

12:32

to sleep, baby, it's time to sleep. And

12:34

get down to the kitchen. I'm still hearing her

12:36

giggling, right? And now I'm interested,

12:39

what's going on. So, half irritated, half

12:41

interested. I head upstairs and Josie's

12:43

kind of tucked up under the blankets and she's giggling.

12:46

And a little bit uncontrollably. And I

12:48

say to her, I say, okay, Josie, it's time for bed.

12:51

It's time to kind of get it together. And I start going

12:53

through the process of tucking her in. And she

12:55

just keeps laughing. I said, well, look, Josie,

12:57

at this point in time, you gotta kind of share what's going

13:00

on? Here I am, I'm struggling

13:02

cuz I want to get downstairs. I wanna mope in

13:04

front of the tv, I wanna think about my scan.

13:06

Think about all the terrible dark

13:09

holes you can dive into. And here's

13:11

this little girl, eight year old girl,

13:13

just my daughter, my flesh and blood,

13:15

just looking at me and giggling and having fun.

13:17

And here's me saying, okay, I can do

13:19

this or I can go downstairs

13:22

and do this other thing that I have planned.

13:24

And and she keeps giggling and I finally ask

13:27

her, I say, Hey, Josie, What is the word? I said,

13:29

what is it you're laughing about? She goes, I invented a

13:31

word. And she was saying it through deep laughter.

13:33

She was like, giggling. And I'm starting to laugh a little bit,

13:36

and now it's a little bit uncontrolled. And I'm like, I'll speed

13:38

it up here a little bit. I'm gonna spend the whole podcast

13:40

on this. But I said to her, I said, well,

13:42

well, what is it? What is that word? And

13:45

she said, it's ULLABETTA.

13:47

And we just both started laughing. I mean,

13:49

it was a funny word. And we just kind of started falling

13:52

about the place giggling.

13:54

And then we just sat there for a while

13:56

and we just kept laughing and it was like one of those

13:58

belly laughs. So I had gone from

14:00

being kind of depressed, a little disappointed

14:03

and sad to like, now I'm belly laughing,

14:05

and I'm like, how the heck did this transformation

14:08

take place? And so,

14:10

we're laughing, we're talking, and I said, well, Josie,

14:12

where did they come from? and she said something like,

14:14

she says that, she said this. I didn't hear it, but

14:16

she said, I think it might have been a stitch,

14:19

cuz at the time she was stitching those things

14:21

that you give to your parents and then you put, frame

14:23

them, put 'em on the wall. And, we just kept

14:25

laughing and laughing. I said, maybe it means that

14:27

we should laugh often. And,

14:30

so we coined that and I tucked her in. I went

14:32

downstairs and it became super obvious

14:34

to me that a transformation

14:36

had taken place. That my daughter

14:38

had challenged me in that moment to

14:40

say, look, you can be here right

14:42

now and enjoy this beautiful

14:45

moment with me and

14:47

laugh and be here and present

14:49

and get a belly laugh. I mean, how often do we get those?

14:52

When it happened, I thought to myself,

14:54

when was the last time I had one of those? And

14:57

I can't think of when the last time was beforehand.

14:59

And I really believe that as

15:01

I sat there on the couch and I went back downstairs,

15:03

TV off and processed it, that

15:06

I felt like some kind of intervention, something had

15:08

happened. It's still very emotional

15:10

to me, but I feel like something's

15:13

worked through her to say, hey, look, you

15:15

got this thing. Be here and now. Be here for

15:17

these young guys. Be here for your family and don't

15:19

surrender to things that you

15:21

can't control anyhow or that you can try

15:24

to control. And that changed a lot. And then ULLABETTA,

15:26

later on as the weeks went by, I said, well,

15:28

maybe it means to laugh often

15:31

and live well. And to

15:33

me, when I think of laughing often,

15:35

it's not like, can I get a belly off laugh

15:38

when I'm talking to Ivelisse? It's

15:40

not that. It's like, am I leaning in

15:42

to joy and laughter and

15:44

faith and hope and gratitude

15:47

and love, or am I consciously

15:49

leaning into painful things? So that's laugh often.

15:51

And on the live well side it, It's not

15:54

live adventurously, like jump out of

15:56

an airplane or climb a mountain. I've done

15:58

a lot of things like that. It's more like, am

16:00

I people, places, things,

16:02

events? Am I checking in and making

16:04

sure that I'm not giving myself the

16:07

things that can be hurtful to me? Of

16:09

course, nutrition and exercise and all

16:11

these other things I put in that bucket. So every

16:14

day when I'm doing my mindfulness practice

16:16

and I'm checking in and every night, I'm

16:18

checking in ULLABETTA. Am I laughing

16:20

often? Am I living well?

16:23

And is that something that

16:25

remains a priority in my life?

16:27

So that's the ULLABETTA story.

16:28

So beautiful. honestly, and

16:31

we all need to laugh more in it. And what you

16:33

said reminded me something of what my spiritual

16:35

director just shared with me yesterday and,

16:38

she said connecting with everyday things

16:41

and having that be enough. Sometimes

16:43

in life we're looking forward

16:45

to that next vacation with our family

16:48

or the holidays or whatever

16:50

it may be. Oh, I can't wait till five o'clock.

16:52

I get outta work and can be home. And

16:55

that really stood out to me and say, okay,

16:58

connecting with everyday things and

17:00

having that be enough is

17:02

what you were talking about living well.

17:05

And I just love that.

17:06

You hit the nail on the head. That's being present,

17:08

right? Every day means that you're here right now.

17:10

And, it's like the other day, Josie, I

17:12

put her to bed and I circled back

17:15

around her room and she said, I wrote three poems.

17:18

I said, well, you're supposed to be in bed. Why? Why'd you

17:20

write three poems? She goes, I just felt like doing

17:22

it. And she'll do that. It's uncommon for her

17:24

to turn her to light and get inspired and do something.

17:27

I really believe that she's empathic. And I said, well,

17:29

I can't wait to hear those poems tomorrow. And she goes, now you

17:31

need to listen to 'em now. And so she sat

17:33

there and I was like, now is the time. Right? Every

17:36

day beautiful things

17:38

that you can check in to and not

17:40

give into other things that don't

17:43

serve you.

17:43

I love that. You shared some great

17:46

lessons that cancer has taught you

17:48

at the Believe Big dinner this past spring, and

17:50

I wanted to share, you mentioned one or two of them,

17:52

but I would love to share a few others and have

17:55

you expand on them. The first

17:57

one that you said is to be positive

17:59

and hopeful, and how does one

18:01

practically do that? How do you practically

18:03

do that?

18:04

Oh, wow. I think I'm a great person to ask

18:06

because I'm not naturally positive and hopeful.

18:09

So that's what I mean about the gifts of cancer,

18:11

right? You get cancer and if you

18:13

give yourself to it, I don't look at

18:15

it as I'm fighting cancer. I

18:18

really don't subscribe to that. I believe

18:20

that cancer is a gift to me, and

18:22

that it's teaching me how to thrive.

18:25

So you're like, how do you become positive? Well, if you're

18:27

like me where you're a natural cynic and, skeptical

18:29

about things, then it starts

18:32

with just training your mind to be mindful

18:34

and to be present. And when you

18:36

do that, and when I do that, and the

18:38

ULLABETTA thing where I give myself to people, places

18:41

and things that are kind of sucking energy

18:43

from me, and I'm consciously making choices

18:45

to lean toward the many beautiful, positive things

18:48

around me, which there are.

18:50

It's just the choice, the conscious choice

18:52

to do that. And I, yes, it's the reading,

18:54

yes, it's Josie teaching me that,

18:57

Hey dad, you're here. It can be now. And so

18:59

it's this immense learning curve

19:01

that I'm on. It's when you were like, Hey,

19:04

Daniel, can you come speak for this event? And I'm

19:06

like, okay, I can do that.

19:08

I hope I can be of value. Can you speak

19:10

on this podcast? Well, yeah.

19:12

Can I be of value? Can I make an impact? Can

19:14

I be of service? Then I'm like, okay, well

19:16

maybe I can, and that's an immense positive

19:19

to me. And no matter what the road looks

19:21

like, that's what it's about right now in

19:23

my life. And I wasn't always

19:25

like that. It can be very transformative.

19:27

And of course you read thousands of books

19:30

about people that go through that and I'm

19:32

just in the very beginnings of that process

19:34

and still just diving even

19:36

headfirst more into it, just to make

19:39

sure I can be somebody

19:41

like, like my wife, who's always

19:43

positive about everything. I'm like, how can you

19:45

be that positive about everything? And instead of challenging

19:48

her on that, I'm like, instead she becomes

19:50

the study, she becomes the person I can emulate

19:53

and be like, okay, how can I be

19:55

more like you?

19:56

That's awesome. I love that. And

19:58

you also share, and we talk about this a lot

20:00

too, but I'd love to get your perspective. You

20:02

said that you are your best advocate.

20:05

Share about that.

20:06

Well, okay, so, wow, that's

20:08

a deep question and worth talking about.

20:10

So, if you have some form

20:12

of cancer that's conventionally treatable there's still

20:14

people like in my age and mentality,

20:17

small town guy that might just give themselves

20:19

to people wearing white coats,

20:22

that are very educated and very smart. And

20:24

obviously in your case, I,

20:26

I know a little bit about it. They don't have all the

20:28

answers. You had to start creating your own

20:31

answers and your own research. But,

20:33

if you're accustomed like me to walking in

20:35

and expecting that this person across the room has

20:37

all the answers, well, they don't. Now, if you move

20:40

to the, hey, we don't really have any answer

20:42

for you, but we want you to stop in every few months

20:44

so we can let you know that we still don't have any answers

20:46

for you. We'd be happy to see

20:49

you and spend time with you. But the

20:51

truth of the matter is there's so, so

20:53

much more and you cover much of it,

20:55

in the material that you cover in the podcast.

20:58

They don't give you all those answers.

21:00

They don't volunteer all that information.

21:02

And if you're not willing to ask

21:05

all of those questions and

21:07

get them so you have a very human relationship

21:09

with your practitioners, whether they're in the alternative

21:12

healing arena or in conventional

21:14

care. You're probably not as far

21:16

as you need to go in your healing.

21:19

And so being your own advocate in

21:21

a, I don't know, in a respectful kind of

21:23

inquisitive, but driven type way

21:26

is not only a way to just get answers,

21:28

but it's also a way to tell your physicians

21:30

that I am paying attention. I used

21:32

to tell a joke when I used to visit the cancer

21:34

boards. I went to Mayo and Dana-Farber

21:37

and all these other ones, and I, you'd have these

21:39

guys there and there's the per capita

21:41

education sitting at that table blows your

21:43

mind away. And I'm like, okay, the best thing I could do is create

21:45

a joke and get 'em all laughing and being

21:47

human. And then I know they're gonna

21:49

treat me like a little bit of a human. Now that's very

21:51

shallow thinking, I know that they look at me as a

21:54

human and they, they want me to get well, but

21:56

the truth of the matter is I try to make it very

21:58

human so that they do pay attention as

22:00

well. So, that's a long way of answering

22:02

your question. One thing I can say in my life

22:04

if I is that I've never been one to

22:06

sit back and allow somebody to determine

22:09

my fate, even when they are the

22:11

designated expert in the room.

22:13

Yep. You know yourself best, right?

22:15

Yeah. We need to listen to the wisdom of our doctors.

22:18

Yes. But you knew yourself best.

22:20

And I think you mentioned, in some

22:22

of your notes, you had shared that you are the CEO

22:25

of your body and the stakes are too high

22:27

to be a passive observer. And

22:29

that's so true. You also shared,

22:31

allow for and forgive yourself

22:33

for imperfection on your journey.

22:36

Oh my gosh, Ivelisse. This has been one of

22:38

the toughest parts for me, because

22:41

when you're on a complete self-healing journey,

22:43

and not that anybody wants to have

22:45

a giant section of their, intestines

22:47

taken out or any of that type of stuff, but

22:49

there is nothing else, and then there becomes

22:52

not just one hole to dive

22:54

into. You can go down the pathways

22:56

with Jane McClellan or you can go on the terrain

22:59

with Nasha and then there's plenty of

23:01

other things like go to Belgium and get special

23:03

treatment. The fact is as I go through my

23:05

day-to-day regimen, I'm not gonna be perfect.

23:08

I'm not a perfect human being. I never have

23:10

been perfect. But I do beat myself up

23:12

with guilt all the time because I start

23:14

to think to myself, oh my gosh, if I, if my

23:16

keto level isn't it, 2.56,

23:19

by the time I'm 3:00 PM rolls around, then holy

23:21

moly, the cancer's gonna overtake me. And

23:23

it's that kind of thinking that can

23:26

suck the life outta me. And that's just what

23:28

my experience is. So I,

23:30

I have some guilty pleasures. I, I like to

23:32

take an Uber whenever I can cuz I hate

23:34

driving and I drink Fiji

23:36

water only. And I bought an ice

23:38

maker that I make Fiji Ice Cube. So that's my

23:41

guilty pleasure. But I'm trying to

23:43

do everything I can to offset the idea

23:45

that maybe I didn't hit the sauna five

23:47

times a week, or maybe when I came outta the

23:49

sauna and I was sweating that I didn't rigorously

23:51

scrub as much as I should have. I mean, No

23:54

one has to tell you this stuff, I mean, I

23:56

feel I want to pitch it back to you and say Ivelisse,

23:58

what was your experience?

24:00

We felt that, and I think, I

24:02

feel like my husband felt it more

24:04

than I did because he

24:06

felt so responsible. Like,

24:09

if we don't do this right, like I'm not,

24:11

you're not gonna be here with me. And that

24:13

terrified him. And I think sometimes the

24:15

cancer diagnosis

24:17

is worse for the caregiver than the patient

24:20

themselves. And for me,

24:22

I had a peace because I knew that whether I

24:25

lived or die, I won. Right? If

24:27

I lived and I wanted to live and I

24:29

wanted to be here for my kids, I

24:31

would enjoy life. And if I died, I

24:33

knew that ultimately, this is not my

24:35

home and I know that God and those

24:37

before me are waiting for me in Heaven and it's

24:39

just gonna be a glorious day there.

24:42

But when we were evaluating all the things

24:44

that we had to do each day, and he

24:46

was the same way. Like, do we do this? Do we not

24:49

do this? And it really was

24:51

sitting at our kitchen table and

24:53

he finally had this moment

24:56

and he said, you know what, Ivelisse, we

24:58

could do everything right and you could

25:00

still die. We could do everything

25:03

wrong and you could live.

25:05

Ultimately, your life is in God's hands

25:07

and do we trust him no matter how this turns

25:09

out? And I'm telling you, it was like a huge

25:12

weight was lifted off both of our shoulders

25:14

because we were gonna be wise in our decisions

25:17

and do what we could, but leave the rest

25:19

of God to say, okay, open

25:21

this door, shut that door, and

25:24

relieve that stress and anxiety

25:26

of making sure we had to do

25:28

this and do that. And I think that was

25:30

the best thing that he ever said to me. And it

25:32

relieved it. And our mantra became, I

25:34

trust you God, no matter how this turns out. And

25:37

that was our biggest lesson going

25:39

through that.

25:40

Thank you for sharing that.

25:41

Yeah. So in closing, I

25:43

would love for you to share, knowing

25:46

what you know now, if you could go back

25:48

in time, is there anything

25:50

that you would advise someone

25:52

who's starting their journey or in their middle of their journey,

25:54

like yourself, that you would encourage

25:57

them? What words would you encourage them with today?

25:59

Okay, so if you're getting anything out of me

26:02

talking today, then I would encourage

26:04

them to say that I'm average and that if I can do it,

26:06

then anyone can do it. The second

26:08

thing that I would say is that I really highly

26:11

underrated stress and the impact

26:13

of stress psychologically and physically, and also

26:15

early trauma stress.

26:18

I thrived off of it. I thought stress was

26:20

the thing. Before I sold my company,

26:22

you know, did transactions all over the world, flying

26:25

all over the place. I was very self-important

26:27

and all that stuff. And I didn't realize

26:29

how much that I was laying on myself.

26:31

And then that all leads to the last

26:34

part in that is an active mindfulness

26:36

practice, it is a very easy thing

26:39

to get involved in, and the benefits

26:41

just keep pouring out and there's zero

26:43

wrong way to do it. So it's

26:46

almost like the return on investment is

26:48

so quick and so immediate that if you just give yourself

26:50

a little bit of time. And why? What's

26:52

the direct tie in to cancer? The direct tie in

26:54

to cancer is that we need to be present

26:56

to make our best decisions. Decisions

26:58

about our care, away from our dark

27:00

emotions, away from the fears

27:02

that we live with, and

27:05

it gives you the chance to see things that

27:07

are right in front of you that are very beautiful

27:09

and enjoy those things. Even in the best case

27:11

scenario we don't know what tomorrow brings,

27:14

nothing's promised. So, I'm

27:16

a neophyte. I keep saying that, but I'm so

27:18

glad that I'm dialed into it now that I

27:21

can be here with somebody like you and leave

27:23

here and go play soccer and coach

27:26

my boy and have fun and enjoy that.

27:28

And whatever happens, it's

27:30

gonna happen. But I'm gonna live my life all the

27:32

way. ULLABETTA.

27:34

I love it. ULLABETTA, laugh

27:36

often, live well.

27:38

Thank you Daniel for being with us today.

27:41

It's been an honor.

27:42

Oh man. It's been great. Thanks so much, Ivelisse.

27:51

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