0:01

Welcome to Behind the Bastards, the

0:03

only podcast where the host, Robert

0:06

Evans could easily, and I mean

0:08

easily, defeat Lebron James at

0:10

basketball. Not a problem, not even

0:13

a challenge. Everyone knows it. Everybody

0:15

agrees. Let's just move on. Having

0:17

made the point. This is Remember,

0:19

I've seen your dunk I've seen your dunk

0:21

reels on TikTok. You're very kid, Thank

0:24

you, thank you, Yes, unparalleled. Some

0:26

would say, um, now, Jamie

0:28

bad, I'm speaking Jamie

0:31

Loftus, How how are you, Jamie

0:34

Loftus. I'm so, I'm

0:36

so, I'm all

0:38

over the place, but I'm good. I'm all right, all

0:40

things considered. I brought my cat on

0:43

a cross country flight yesterday.

0:45

So that's what did you do? Was he

0:47

good? What was the vibe? Was

0:50

good? We were we were

0:52

sitting like I was in

0:55

the two rows. I was the only person that wasn't

0:57

on the way to celebrate someone's thirtieth

0:59

birthday.

1:01

But they really took to the cat. They were

1:03

we were all an emotional support

1:06

unit. They were all watching Naruto

1:08

on iPads. I was listening to an

1:10

Amityville Horror audio book and

1:13

just reaching down and petting my cat

1:15

for six hours. It was. It was a real treat.

1:18

How are you, Robert? I'm good, um,

1:21

by which I mean terrible, by which I mean normal.

1:24

Um okay, so nothing's

1:26

changed since we last spoke that I just flew

1:28

to. I was in Texas from my brother's wedding,

1:31

and so I was. I got to be as

1:33

I was when I left Texas there the day

1:36

a new shitty law came into being. Um,

1:39

okay, you need to stop going back your jinks.

1:42

Yeah, I mean when I moved to l A, I

1:44

had just like immediately. It was immediately after

1:46

I attended the protests for Wendy

1:48

Davis at the Capitol over the over

1:50

abortion. Um,

1:52

so that's just me and Texas. Baby.

1:56

Wait, Robert, what is your what is I'm

1:59

what is your vibe at a wedding? I

2:01

can't picture you at a wedding, so I need

2:03

to have trouble picturing me too at a wedding,

2:05

Jamie. But I was to it

2:08

was very Catholic wedding. Did

2:10

you get to eat the tiny bread? No?

2:13

No, no, I don't I don't take I love the tiny

2:15

bread. It tastes so good. Tucksolved.

2:19

I had to wear a tux I

2:21

have. Where's the pictures?

2:24

I felt bad about killing the

2:26

photographer, but I just couldn't let there

2:28

be a chance of those photos getting out. So send

2:31

me a pick of you what I had to

2:33

do? A smiling with teeth

2:35

in the pics? No, but

2:39

I did get extremely drunk

2:41

at the it was thankfully it was um

2:44

It was a Catholic wedding, but it was also a Mexican

2:46

wedding, so the food was incredible and

2:49

I was able to get very drunk afterwards,

2:51

so that I can't believe you

2:54

smiled with teeth. Also,

2:57

my brother's happy. I guess that's important too.

3:00

Yeah, who gives a ship? I don't know your brother allegedly

3:03

whatever, Jamie,

3:07

what how do you feel about the

3:09

death of all hope? I

3:12

feel, I feel I feel very numb

3:14

to it. Yeah,

3:16

that's a good way to feel about the death of all hope,

3:18

Jamie. Today, I'm going to tell you

3:20

a story, and it's a story about

3:23

the end of the world. Now, this story

3:25

doesn't involve a nuclear holocaust or global

3:27

war. The culprit for our incipient

3:29

apocalypse is the modern information

3:32

ecosystem, which has doomed us

3:34

all and cannot be reformed. Now

3:37

to make it clear why I'm gonna tell

3:39

you a story about ivermectin. I guess

3:42

you've heard a lot about iver met in the last couple

3:44

of days, haven't you. You

3:46

sure have course

3:48

paste um all that tends

3:50

to be how people talk about

3:53

it in social media. These idiots are taking horse paste

3:55

um, which is It's

3:58

one of those things where people who love horse

4:00

paste will be like, we're not taking horse paste.

4:03

Is. There's a bunch of different formulations. There's even human

4:05

versions, and that's true. They're like a horse

4:07

paste is the meanest possible I've I've

4:09

seen versions of that, like saying it's horse

4:11

paste is a little bit inaccurate

4:15

when they say something else scary, I'm

4:17

actually taking sheep dip um.

4:23

But a lot of people are taking the human version

4:25

of iver mecht in too, particularly when talking about

4:27

Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan isn't going to a feed store

4:29

in getting apple flavored horse paste. He's

4:31

getting ivermectin prescribed him by a doctor

4:33

because he's rich um. And ivermectin

4:36

is very much kind of a miracle medicine,

4:39

just not in the purpose is being used for um.

4:41

It was discovered in nineteen seventy five and went

4:43

on sale widely in the early nineteen eighties,

4:46

and it is still today one of the most potent

4:48

anti parasitic medications in existence.

4:51

It is effective in livestock and also in

4:53

humans. It is credited with curing a once

4:55

devastating illness called river blindness,

4:58

which I feel like the name describes

5:01

more or less the problem. Um, I

5:04

don't agree. What is

5:06

parasites from unclean water

5:09

make you blind and stops

5:12

that? Okay, it's

5:14

very it's very good stuff. The scientists who

5:17

discovered it won a Nobel Prize UM

5:19

and in two thousand fifteen it was even found

5:21

that the anti parasitic drug is also effective at

5:23

disrupting the transmission of malaria

5:26

UM, which is great. And when taken as

5:28

directed, iver mecton is extremely safe

5:31

with minimal side effects, and it is cheap enough

5:33

to produce that you can find it all over the world,

5:35

or you could anyway. Before about

5:38

like six this month, six or so months ago,

5:41

iver macton has developed I think a really toxic

5:44

fan base, and it's the Rick

5:46

and Morty of anti parasitic drugs

5:50

sure um,

5:54

And like Rick and Morty, it will stop

5:58

herds of horses from shifting

6:00

worms out. It acts. Yeah,

6:03

people, they have horses watching early

6:06

seasons of ricking mortial ther to

6:08

see what will happened to their bodies. You

6:10

give season four, it'll keep shitting

6:12

worms. So in September

6:14

of Australian researchers

6:17

found that huge doses of iron mectin, when ministered

6:19

in a laboratory setting might stop

6:22

or could stop replication of COVID in cell

6:24

cultures in less than forty eight hours. This

6:27

was potentially a big deal for obvious

6:29

reasons, but also these are cell

6:32

cultures, right, This is not in

6:34

the human body. These are in in

6:37

in a very controlled laboratory setting.

6:39

So this is a very useful piece of

6:41

data. And obviously follow up studies were immediately

6:43

commissioned around the world to see if maybe this

6:45

might be something that could help with COVID. Now

6:48

pre vaccine doctors were looking at

6:50

a wide variety of medications and treatment

6:53

options that might act as stop

6:55

gaps until there was a vaccine. One

6:57

group of physicians who were doing this was the Frontline

7:00

COVID nineteen Critical Care Alliance

7:03

or f l c c c UM.

7:07

This group had been formed by a number

7:09

of critical care specialists with different medical

7:11

backgrounds who wanted to try and hash together new

7:13

ideas for treating the virus. Their

7:15

first stab at this was to use cortico steroids

7:18

to reduce mortality in severe COVID

7:20

cases. Now, the man most behind

7:23

this particular idea was a guy named Dr Umberto

7:25

Maduri. He's known as the Guru

7:27

of cortico steroids in lung disease.

7:30

Conventional wisdom, what an amazing

7:33

I hope there's a T shirt for that. I hope there's a T

7:35

Yeah, he should get They announced him like it's a w

7:37

w E wrestler when he comes out at medical conferences.

7:40

I mean funcket. I want him to get a two Chains

7:42

album, Like why not? I want

7:44

to hook up with him? Why not? Yeah?

7:47

Um so yeah, this guy has this

7:49

idea that like, hey, maybe cortico steroids

7:52

might be useful in this situation, and that was very

7:54

controversial at the time. Conventional

7:56

wisdom um was that steroids

7:59

like that do more harm than good when treating

8:01

a virus, like when treating a coronavirus.

8:04

But Dr Marduri and his colleagues were pretty

8:06

sure that their solution would help, and they distributed

8:08

a new hospital protocol called MATH plus

8:10

for patients hospitalized with severe COVID.

8:13

Hospitals began trying it out because again,

8:15

this is early in the virus. There's not it's

8:17

kind of like throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

8:20

Um, And there's evidence that this seriously

8:23

slowed down mortality. It seems to have worked.

8:26

Hospital administrators noticed rapid

8:28

slowdowns and mortality when they adopted this,

8:30

specifically for people who were very sick. Um,

8:34

when you hire the guru, that's great, you're

8:36

bringing the guru. So yeah, um, And there was

8:38

of course, you know, they kind of started adopting

8:41

this before there was a huge body of science, but a

8:43

body of science was built as

8:45

they started adopting this, and a large

8:48

UK patient study in June of showed

8:50

that steroid treatment that the FLCCC

8:53

suggested really worked. The MATH

8:55

plus protocol was greenlit, and hospitals

8:57

around the United States praise for

9:00

ed in for the f l c c C, who at this point

9:02

looked like hard working doctors doing their damnedest

9:04

to find creative ways to save lives in an incredibly

9:07

challenging situation. Wait

9:09

were they not? Well, this

9:12

is not an easy answer to that question.

9:14

Jamie, Okay, because

9:18

um, they definitely did a good

9:20

thing there and saved a lot of lives with that, they

9:22

have also gone on to do some sketchy

9:25

things And I don't have an easy

9:27

summary for you of like the f l

9:29

c c C is, like they're horrible grifters

9:32

or there you know, decent

9:34

medical you know, people who got something wrong

9:36

or their their truth. Like I don't. I don't have an

9:39

easy answer for you for what these people are. But

9:41

things take a turn at this point.

9:43

So one of the doctors, one of

9:45

the co founders of the f l c c C, was a

9:48

guy named Dr Pierre Corey. Now

9:50

Dr Corey was not the brains behind

9:52

Dr Murdery's cortico steroid plan,

9:54

but he did helped found the f l c c C.

9:57

He was very interested in the early

10:00

in the early data that started coming out about

10:02

iver mechton. In October, he

10:05

and other FLCCC doctors noted

10:07

that there had been several small successful

10:09

trials using iver mecton as a preventative

10:11

measure. These studies were not large

10:13

or particularly high quality. We'll talk

10:15

a little bit about them later, but in those pre vaccine

10:18

days, a case could be made that they were not being irresponsible

10:20

by adding iver mecton to their math plus protocol

10:23

alongside a new preventative protocol

10:25

called i'm ask plus. There's not vaccines

10:28

yet. The pandemic October is kind

10:30

of at the fucking worst it's been um

10:33

and you know, you could also say, like,

10:35

well, they kind of took a little bit of a stab on

10:37

cortico steroids and that wound up saving lives.

10:40

Might as well give it a shot with especially since

10:42

iver mechten, when taken in

10:45

quantities for humans, that's prescribed by a doctor

10:47

fairly minimal risks. Right. I've

10:50

never known anyone who's had river blindness,

10:52

So yes, exactly exactly,

10:55

you don't and I spray you with a

10:57

lot of contaminated river water, Jamie.

11:00

You do. You've been doing a lot of experiments,

11:02

But I I do believe when you say, it's for the

11:04

greater good of some So

11:08

these guys are kind of operating off of the

11:11

goodwill of having been semi successful

11:13

before to experiment with, and

11:16

they're they're also operating. You do have to

11:18

acknowledge the situation

11:21

when you're dealing with a pandemic of this severity,

11:24

you can't necessarily wait, like

11:27

you have to make You have to kind of triage when

11:29

you wait to try something. And

11:31

I can see in the case of being like look

11:34

when you when taken when when

11:36

giving people like normal human doses of iver

11:38

mactin very minimal risk of

11:40

side effects. If it might

11:43

help, it's worth trying. You know

11:46

you can you can make that case. And

11:48

that's the case these people were making it at this point.

11:50

They're not being bastards that I can

11:52

tell um. And they imagine

11:54

they're making a shipload of money also

11:57

would that be I don't

11:59

I don't have that information, Jamie, some

12:01

of this. So one of the troubles with this, This is gonna be

12:03

a little bit of a messier because a lot of this is still breaking.

12:06

And in fact, one of the studies that I was talking about

12:08

earlier, an article just dropped today

12:10

kind of talking about it. So I

12:13

think that we will learn more about the f l

12:15

c c C in time as a result of some of the things

12:17

we'll talk about. I don't know the

12:20

extent to which people are making a profit

12:22

off of it. I don't know enough to allege any

12:24

that kind of fiscal wrongdoing. But

12:27

there's something weird here at some being

12:30

on the cutting edge as usual, Robert,

12:33

thank you, Jamie, thank you. I am on the cutting

12:35

edge like I am in the cutting

12:37

edge of basketball strategies, here in the

12:39

cutting edge of weddings, on the cutting

12:42

edge of COVID analysis,

12:45

on the cutting edge of smiling with your teeth and pictures.

12:48

Thank you, thank you. You know I invented the four

12:50

pointer recently. No one had ever done that in basket

12:52

No kidding, Wow right,

12:55

that's right, make me fire you again.

12:59

So at this point, it's also important

13:01

to enough that the FLCCC, they're

13:03

saying, we're adding this might we're

13:05

recommending this in certain situations for people

13:08

who are sick and as a potential prophylactic

13:10

to prevent COVID. They were not

13:13

billing iver mectin as a replacement

13:15

or an alternative to the vaccine, and in

13:18

fact, they're early advocacy of iver mectin

13:20

discussed it purely as a stop gap vaccines

13:23

are not available at this point. There's some

13:25

evidence that this might help stem the tide of infections,

13:28

and we are at capacity in hospital,

13:30

so this might reduce infections

13:32

that might improve outcomes. We're going

13:34

to recommend people take it until there's a vaccine,

13:37

right, and I'm gonna quote from Yahoo News here

13:39

to talk about some people who did use it in that situation.

13:43

In a February local news segment, a

13:46

Midland, Texas woman describes how she learned about

13:48

iver mectin backed in October from the Internet,

13:50

and she and her family had been taking it in animal

13:52

form ever since. Though she wasn't taking

13:54

the tablets for humans as the f LCCC recommends.

13:57

In a way, she was taking it as intended

13:59

as a bridge to the vaccine. I

14:02

just got my first vaccine shot a few days

14:04

ago, So no more horse paste, she told

14:06

the reporter. So that is I do

14:08

want to acknowledge here, that's not being

14:11

unreasonable, like right, maybe I would recommend

14:13

get the human version if you can. But whatever, people,

14:15

I know a lot of poor people in the country.

14:17

Sometimes you take veterinary medicine because it's what you

14:19

can afford. I mean

14:22

that the turn of phrase. So no more horse

14:24

paste alone. But

14:27

I'm not gonna say this is the most responsible

14:30

decision of person could have made. But she

14:32

got her vaccine right, and

14:34

she there was I want you to I

14:37

want you to type fl c c C into

14:40

Google and pull up their web page and

14:42

take a look at it. Because when

14:44

she says she found it on the internet, and

14:46

because this person took the vaccine, I don't know, that

14:49

can mean a lot of things. That can mean somebody's like seeing

14:51

someone on Reddit talk about taking random

14:54

medication or like on Facebook. But

14:56

if you look at the f l c c C page, this

14:59

doesn't take credit. Call care dot com Yeah,

15:02

yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a very reputable

15:05

looking website. These are real asked doctors

15:07

with real Jamie Lakes

15:10

Community College popa for you twenty

15:12

times and then it gets to the this

15:16

had to have been an s e O disaster

15:18

for the finger Figure Lakes Community College.

15:21

Sorry, I forgot, I had a picture of I forgot.

15:24

I had a picture of Joe Rogan in a tab and I just

15:26

like it was like a jump scare Um,

15:28

okay, COVID nineteen, critical care dot

15:30

com. This does look like how

15:33

I picture medical

15:35

website to look like. Okay, and you can

15:37

you can see how a concerned

15:39

parent in the middle of a horrible fucking plague

15:42

could come to this and be like, Okay, well, this seems

15:45

like a reasonable thing to do for my family until

15:47

I can get the vaccine, like avoid

15:50

censorship connects to f l c c C

15:52

alliance here, there's definitely

15:54

definitely and that I think is is

15:57

newer. Like you can see some kind of griff

16:00

to your things getting in here, right,

16:02

um, but you can also see how a

16:05

perfectly reasonable person just trying to like

16:07

do what's best for their family could be like, okay,

16:09

well I'll give it a shot, right. And that's where

16:12

fast too, like everything quickly

16:16

and in February, you know you

16:19

October to like January,

16:22

October, January. People.

16:24

I can see people just being like, okay, well this seems

16:27

like it might help. I can't get a vaccine.

16:30

So far, so good? Right, so far the

16:32

fl C c C I can't. I'm sure,

16:34

I'm sure there are things doctors could could

16:36

quickly complain about here. There's definitely a debate

16:39

to be had about certainly desperate, but

16:42

there's no perfect choices you can make

16:44

in a fucking pandemic either. Um.

16:47

That said, while they haven't really

16:49

gone off, they haven't broke bad yet. There

16:52

were early signs that something was awry.

16:55

In December of Dr Pierre

16:57

Corey testified to a Senate panel

16:59

about I for mectin, which he called a

17:02

wonder drug. Now, when

17:05

you hear the term wonder drug and

17:07

they are not talking about delauded.

17:10

The only wonder drug which I

17:12

call a wonder drug because it's wonderful.

17:16

What is that? You know, I don't

17:18

know what a drug is. Delatted

17:22

is the Toyota tacoma of opiates.

17:25

It's liable, it's

17:27

hard working, it's comfortable.

17:29

Oh my god, it's so good like um

17:36

yeah, yeah, because fuck oxy

17:39

um delatted, baby, it's all about delatted.

17:42

Okay, that's good information for when I begin

17:44

taking opiates. Yeah. Absolutely,

17:46

everybody needs good information and that information

17:49

is tried a lauded sponsors

17:51

of the podcast. By the way, wait,

17:56

he called it a lot a wonder drug to the Senate,

17:58

which is not in court. He called

18:00

it a wonder drug. Okay, that doesn't sound

18:03

good. That doesn't sound good.

18:05

That's not very especially

18:07

since there is data in December

18:09

of that suggests this might be

18:11

a useful and and it's perfectly it would have been perfectly

18:13

reasonably said, hey, we've got some data. This

18:16

might help. Here's the situations in which the

18:18

data suggests it might help. This is my

18:20

recommendations that might be how a

18:22

responsible doctor would say it. You don't

18:24

call it doctor oz rhetoric

18:27

exactly. Yeah,

18:31

Well with the Senate, and so

18:33

number one it this Senate

18:35

panel was a Homeland Security

18:38

Senate panel. So I don't know why the funk

18:40

they're talking about that. Why none

18:43

of you people like you're not even good at homeland

18:45

security. Why are you talking about fucking

18:49

COVID nineteen killing

18:51

time? That's so bizarry, let's

18:53

get a doctor up here. Now. The

18:55

panel was chaired by Wisconsin Senator

18:58

Ron Johnson, because flag,

19:02

that's a real red flag right there. Okay,

19:05

Now, the problem is that because

19:08

of the fl CCCS reputation with Cortico

19:10

steroids, Dr Pierre Corey isn't

19:13

doesn't seem when he's coming up front, he's not just some

19:15

yahoo. He is a real doctor

19:18

working with an organization that took

19:20

a very bold stab early in the pandemic

19:22

and was very right about it, like and

19:25

which then immediately jokerfied themselves

19:27

and then they went jography. Yeah exactly, but like

19:30

you can see why this is so dangerous,

19:32

right, um? Right? And I also

19:35

understand, I mean with Ron Johnson, there's no excuse

19:37

for anything he does. But I understand

19:39

from like a regular, like

19:42

a person consuming this media

19:44

with not a lot of information, why

19:47

it might have seemed like not the worst

19:49

most dangerous thing in the world to do so

19:53

at this point, there's some shady

19:55

stuff going on that Senate testimony

19:58

is questionable, right

20:00

um, But there's also not really anything

20:03

to suggest at the end of that

20:05

ever mectin is about to become a public health problem.

20:07

And in fact, while the US started ramping up

20:10

and distributing vaccines at the tail end of early

20:13

one, huge chunks of Latin America

20:15

started adopting ever mectin as a standard

20:18

treatment protocol. And the reasoning

20:20

for this is as bleak as it is understandable.

20:23

Latin America has some of the worst COVID death

20:25

rates on the planet. Whitespread

20:27

poverty meant that while the vaccine was starting

20:30

to get rolled out in the United States, it was not

20:32

going to be anywhere in the near future for

20:34

millions tens of millions of people in Latin

20:36

America. So while the wealthy countries

20:38

hoarded vaccines for their own people, doctors

20:41

in South and Central America looked at the early

20:43

evidence on iver mactin and said, this is the best

20:45

we can fucking do and we can afford it,

20:48

you know, yeah, which

20:50

is very sad, that's extremely blak.

20:53

Yeah, it's real fucking bleak. Um

20:56

and Peru included the drug and its basic

20:59

treatment guide lines, and one health minister

21:01

in the country told Nature magazine that clinical

21:04

trials investigating the drugs efficacy had

21:07

trouble recruiting control group participants

21:09

because there were so many people already on the

21:12

drug. Basically, they recommended people

21:14

take this and then they had trouble studying

21:16

it because they couldn't find people who weren't taking

21:18

it. Um wow, okay,

21:21

So it just and was this like a very

21:24

fast process, like it went

21:26

zero okay, And it's it's fast

21:28

in part because you know, unlike when

21:31

hydroxy cloquine, which we'll talk about a bit later,

21:33

kind of went viral, there's not a lot

21:35

of that ship, right, It's not just like an o TC

21:38

thing like people had to get it prescribed. You don't

21:40

just walk into a CD SID. You could

21:42

walk into stores down the corner and

21:44

pick up iver mecton. Because especially

21:47

in like rural at in America, any rural place, there's

21:49

a shiploaded animal feed stores. It's all over the

21:51

place. Over the counter veterinary

21:53

drug. Yeah, yeah, it's over the

21:55

counter veterinary drug. It's not super you

21:57

do have to get it prescribed for a person, but I think

21:59

most these people are taking the veterinary version. But even

22:01

the person version, it's extreme, especially

22:04

since a lot of Latin America a

22:06

lot of huge amount of parasites,

22:09

so a lot of people are taking this anyway. It's available,

22:11

is the point. It's available, and it's cheap, so

22:13

it's once these people here, this might protect

22:16

your family from COVID. They actually have the

22:18

ability to get this stuff immediately.

22:20

Um In Bolivia, healthcare workers pretty

22:23

much instantly distributed three and fifty

22:25

thousand doses. I Ever, met In

22:27

also grew popular in South America for the

22:29

same reasons poverty and desperation

22:32

um so from the website Pharmaceutical

22:35

Technology quote. The pro iver met

22:37

In campaign has taken a particularly stronghold

22:39

in South Africa, where coronavirus infection

22:42

rates are among the worst in the continent and the vaccine

22:44

program has yet to cover all the country's most

22:46

vulnerable. Some doctors have been prescribing

22:48

the worm drug to COVID nineteen patients, claiming

22:50

anecdotally that it alleviates virus symptoms,

22:53

despite the South African Health Products Regulatory

22:56

Authority warning against its use. I

22:58

ever met In is also thriving the country's

23:00

black market, where one tablet can sell for as

23:02

much as twenty five pounds, and sales

23:04

of veterinary forms of the drug have skyrocketed.

23:07

Grassroots collectives such as the iver Metin

23:09

Interest Group formed of South African health practitioners,

23:12

public health experts and medical scientists,

23:14

have campaigned for approval of the drug, while

23:16

civil rights group afro Form earlier this

23:19

year filed a court case against SAFFRA, which

23:21

is the South African Health

23:24

Products Regulating Authority, to have the treatment

23:26

approved for COVID nineteen patients. After

23:29

initially allowing controlled compassionate use

23:31

of the drug in an attempt to curb illegal sales,

23:33

the health agency this month received a High court

23:35

order to permit the off label prescription of

23:38

iver mectin by doctors. Iver

23:42

met And also took off in the Philippines,

23:44

where viral social media posts sent

23:47

the product flying off the shelves of veterinary

23:49

suppliers. One doctor was found to have

23:51

printed eight thousand iver mettin pills

23:53

using his own recipe. The Philippines

23:56

FDA. Yeah, the Philippines f

23:58

d A attempted to reign this in and issued

24:00

warnings that were not heated, but they also

24:03

approved too limited studies on the use of

24:05

iver mectin in hospitals, admitting that they

24:07

had been pressured to do so by sheer

24:09

public demand. So when we

24:11

talk about I'm curious about, like how

24:14

this information because you're saying

24:16

like that there were like viral posts

24:18

that got the word out very quickly. Were

24:21

they just post from regular people that were

24:23

taking off where they're like groups that were posting

24:26

like how was So

24:28

here's the way we're gonna talk about this more. But you

24:31

have at the top of the list, you

24:34

have actual scientific studies. Right, We're

24:37

going to analyze a little bit, some of what you're sketchy,

24:39

some of what you're real, some of which show a potential

24:41

benefit. Those filter down to the

24:43

f l C c C and some a couple

24:45

other similar groups who are

24:48

made up of doctors and start advising people

24:50

to take iver mactin. That filters

24:52

down to influencers

24:55

too, people in media figures and whatnot

24:57

who start advising people to take it, and that filters

24:59

down to like face book, groups and ship where

25:01

people start spreading memes and what the bassist

25:05

area of the human psyche hidden

25:07

Facebook groups. Okay, and that's how you get

25:09

from the FLCCC saying doctors

25:12

should consider prescribing this too. I'm

25:14

going to buy horse paste and give it to my children.

25:18

So it's just like the most sinister game of telephone

25:20

ever, Yes, and it is. I do

25:22

want to note as we as everybody continues

25:25

laughing at the fucking stupid ass

25:27

Americans who could easily get a free

25:29

vaccine and take fucking horse paste,

25:31

most of the people taking this stuff in mass

25:34

have no options and are incredibly poor

25:37

and live in the periphery in countries

25:39

rights. What else are they've gonna

25:41

fucking do? Doctors

25:43

are telling them. There are a lot of doctors, and

25:45

again they're very shady doctors, usually

25:48

working off a very bad scientist, but they're

25:50

fucking doctors and they're telling these people this could

25:52

help your family, and they can't get a fucking vaccine.

25:54

They have no options, right, Like, what are they? You're

25:57

not dumb if you're in the Philippines, if you're in Latin America,

25:59

South americ and you're like, this is what else am I gonna

26:01

do, you know, right, if it it's the only

26:04

option there's there's it's so urgent that

26:06

there's no I mean, there's no time to get

26:09

that's that's what is like sticking

26:11

out to be here as like especially frustrating

26:14

because there are very few options and like

26:16

no time to get better information. So

26:18

it is you're saying, what are you going to do? And

26:21

it's it's also important to note that a lot of these

26:23

people and a lot of these communities and their communities,

26:25

I grew up in a community like not on like this. In

26:27

the US, there's a decent chunk of of

26:30

veterinary medicines that work just as

26:32

well on people and are cheaper

26:34

and more available. And sometimes poor

26:37

people do that because again, what

26:39

the funk else do you want me to do? Like

26:42

my kid is sick? Um, and

26:44

it doesn't like it's not always a bad idea,

26:46

like it's never the thing that doctors are recommened, but

26:48

fucking people do it, and there's things that

26:50

it can work on, because like, what else are you gonna fucking

26:52

do? Um? There's different

26:54

anyway, I know, I'm not advising you to

26:57

go by veterinary medicine for your family

26:59

I'm saying people have done it for a long time, and it's

27:01

not always a bad idea, and that's part

27:03

of why people are like, well, sure, you know,

27:05

I've taken like I had to give my kids some fucking

27:07

antibiotics or whatever like that I got from

27:09

a you know, like or

27:12

I've mected because you got a fucking uh because

27:15

you got a fucking parasite and I gave him, you

27:17

know, a small dose of horse paste because I couldn't

27:19

afford to go to a doctor and get it prescribed. I'm

27:21

sure a number of these people like, again,

27:24

these are not dumb people. I just really

27:26

want to because so much of the discourse around this is

27:28

like making fun of the idiots in America who do it,

27:31

and a lot of them are very dumb and funk a lot of those

27:33

people because they could be getting a vaccine um.

27:36

But like most of these people just don't have

27:38

an option, right,

27:40

which like trickles down in so many different ways

27:42

of like how broken

27:44

the health care system is, Like that wouldn't

27:47

even be a necessity. You wouldn't need to make that

27:49

judgment call off if there were actual,

27:52

you know, more viable options made available.

27:55

But you know what, viable

27:57

options. Everyone has, Jamie,

28:00

what to engage with some light product

28:03

and services, some light

28:05

or some heavy. You know, you can you can

28:07

stick, you can just kind of business, just the

28:09

tip of the products and services, or you can go all

28:11

the way in. That's your business, you know.

28:15

Yeah, we don't. We don't judge,

28:17

we don't ask questions. We just we

28:20

just sell people products and occasionally

28:22

services. Wonder

28:24

products, Wonder services. Yeah,

28:27

Wonder products and Wonder services. All

28:30

right, here's an ad Ah.

28:38

We're back. And boy, I don't know

28:41

about you, but all of my depression

28:44

thinking about the desperation that would

28:46

lead people in cash

28:49

for nations to self

28:52

medicate because uh,

28:54

wealthy nations have hoarded the vaccine

28:57

in many cases for profit. Um.

29:00

I don't know where I was going with this. I was trying to make a product

29:02

and services joke, but now I'm just sad again. How are

29:04

you doing, Jamie, you

29:06

know, talking about pharmaceuticals

29:08

under capitalism. I'm

29:11

flying high. I feel incredible. I don't have

29:13

a problem in the world. Everything is

29:15

perfect and great. Yeah, I

29:18

want to die. I mean, I don't know we're what we're a half

29:20

hour into the episode. I absolutely want to you know,

29:22

just walk into traffic, Robert, is

29:24

that what you want to hear? Because that's where I'm

29:26

always at at this point in the episode, That's

29:29

where we're at. That's where we're at. That's just

29:31

so we're at. Jamie. You

29:34

like science, Yeah,

29:37

sure, yeah, I'm nothing

29:39

against silence. I got nothing against

29:42

science. I know what, do I have a brain

29:44

for it? No? Does it make sense to me? No? No,

29:47

of course not. I'm I'm glad people do it also,

29:51

No, yeah, yeah,

29:53

which is my way to think I hate science. We're

29:56

gonna talk a little bit about We're

29:58

gonna talk a little bit about um fucking

30:02

uh. One of the problems

30:05

that science has, which is so the

30:07

basic idea behind you know,

30:10

doing science is you

30:12

you conduct studies to test

30:14

hypotheses, and you publish

30:16

those results, and generally you

30:19

do small studies at first to kind of

30:21

see if if there's anything further to investigate

30:24

or in you know, those small studies, if

30:26

if they're promising, kind of lead to larger studies,

30:28

and eventually you build a body of evidence that

30:30

leads you to one conclusion or another. Right, that's

30:33

the broad idea of how to sell the

30:35

kind of science you learn in when you're

30:38

in first grade. Yeah, that is

30:41

that all that ship gets published, and oftentimes

30:43

it means that these tiny studies are

30:45

getting published and then people

30:47

just assume, well, that's a study and it says this is

30:50

good, so I'm going to do it, and then whole industries

30:52

crop up around that while scientists

30:55

are still trying to figure out if it works.

30:57

And then another shady thing about it is that there's

30:59

play is that lets you publish studies before the studies

31:02

have been peer reviewed, which has some benefits.

31:04

I've I've found some writing as two people say why

31:06

that can be useful, um, But it

31:08

also means that shady people who

31:11

build themselves as scientists can put up a study

31:13

that isn't really a study and hasn't been

31:15

peer reviewed and has massive laws and

31:18

make it look like there's evident supporting

31:20

something when in fact there was not. And that's what

31:22

we're going to talk about now. So Peru

31:26

was as as far as I found, I think, the first

31:28

nation to include iver mecton in its national

31:31

coronavirus treatment guidelines. This was

31:33

based on findings in a pre print

31:36

of a study by health analytics company

31:38

surges Fere and again a preprint

31:41

not yet peer reviewed, so they're they're

31:43

sticking to rough draft, right, you

31:45

know, but if these are publicly I do think

31:47

that it's like that is like a an

31:50

ethics thing, Like no one

31:53

knows what preprint means, so

31:55

it's like you have to make I I wish

31:57

that that was made clearer to I

32:00

don't know. I don't know what I'm saying. It's really like

32:03

I understand that if you're a scientist, you know what

32:05

a preprint means, and you know that this cannot be taken

32:07

at face value. This is preliminary ship.

32:10

Uh, but I feel like you need to

32:12

make that as readily apparent to the layman

32:15

as possible. Yeah.

32:19

Um, And I don't know. It's so

32:22

let's talk about that Surgis Fear study. Sokay,

32:26

before we talk about that, I do I want

32:28

to talk about Surgius Fear a little bit because

32:30

they've been involved in a controversy over

32:33

the last medicine that wasn't

32:35

really a medicine that went viral over COVID nineteen,

32:38

which of course is hydroxy clerk wine.

32:40

Now, if you've forgotten, hydroxychlork

32:42

wine was a medicine that doctors briefly thought,

32:44

based on some early studies, might have efficacy

32:47

in treating COVID nineteen. Those

32:49

early studies, while they were still trying to figure

32:52

out if it actually did have efficacy, were turned into

32:54

a magical cure, all because Trump started

32:56

tweeting about them. He was desperate

32:58

to open the country back up and the get the economy back

33:00

on track in time for the election. Several people

33:03

died trying to treat themselves with hydroxy chloroquine

33:05

or drugs they thought were hydroxychloroquine.

33:07

All the controversy over this drug obscured

33:10

the fact that serious scientists were actually

33:12

trying to understand if it might be useful for COVID.

33:15

In mid May, the Lancet published

33:17

an article suggesting that it was dangerous for patients

33:20

with COVID to take hydroxy clorquin.

33:22

This study was almost immediately retracted

33:24

because the authors were unable to independently

33:27

verify their data set, which had come

33:29

from a large proprietary collection of electronic

33:32

health records analyzed by Surgis Spear.

33:34

So Surgis Spear had put together these health records

33:36

that they were using to make claims that hydroxy

33:39

clorquin was dangerous for certain patients. But

33:41

when they attempted to verify the data

33:44

set, Surgis Spear said, we can't show

33:46

you the health records. We can't

33:48

actually show you the records themselves, which

33:50

like to study being retracted because they can't verify

33:53

it. Yeah, now

33:55

it might not seem like a problem because again, as

33:57

we now know, hydroxychlorkquin is not helpful

34:00

and treating COVID nineteen. So the facture

34:02

I mean, which is like luck of the job. But that's

34:04

so that's they

34:06

can get that far into publishing something because

34:09

they're like, oh, I don't know, but it's

34:12

not even really luck of the draw because that

34:16

thing doesn't seem to have been true.

34:18

Um, And when the study got retracted,

34:21

that just fueled paranoia that there was a conspiracy

34:24

to trick people out of taking hydroxy clarquine.

34:27

The next month, June, another paper

34:29

was retracted, this time from the New England

34:31

Journal of Medicine, due to unverifiable

34:34

data from Surgio sphere. That study

34:36

had found that a variety of heart of heart

34:38

medications had no safety concerns when

34:40

administered to COVID patients. The

34:42

fact that these papers were being retracted after

34:44

many doctors had taken action based on their

34:46

findings. Was disastrous in the midst of an

34:48

already chaotic time. I encourage.

34:51

An Australian bioethicist called it

34:53

catastrophic. Quote. It is problematic

34:55

for their journals involved, It is problematic for

34:57

the integrity of science, It is probably

35:00

matic from medicine, and it is problematic for

35:02

the notion of clinical trials and evidence generation.

35:05

This right up from Nature explains exactly

35:07

why Surgi Sphear's data was problematic.

35:10

Quote. Both papers relied on propriety

35:12

proprietary data analyzed from electronic

35:15

health records that were apparently gathered from hundreds

35:17

of hospitals around the world by Surgi Sphere, but

35:19

after critics raised questions about the studies,

35:22

the firm did not make its raw data available

35:24

to third party auditors for validation. According

35:26

to the attraction notice in the Lancet, Surgi

35:28

Sphere was concerned that transferring the data

35:31

would violate client agreements and confidentiality

35:33

requirements. Since we do not have the ability

35:35

to verify the primary data or primary data

35:37

source, I no longer have confidence in the in

35:40

the origination or and veracity of the

35:42

data, nor the findings they have led to, said

35:44

mandep mea cardiologist

35:47

at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, Massachusetts,

35:49

who was the lead author on both studies. So

35:53

this is and

35:56

again with SURGEI sphere,

35:58

there's something going on here and

36:00

I don't know what it is with these guys.

36:03

It's it's do you have any

36:05

inkling of it? Just sounds like the

36:07

sort of thing where it's like, what is

36:09

the end game for doing

36:12

that? It may

36:14

be as simple as they're just

36:17

kind of a shady company, um who's

36:20

not very good at who

36:23

was trying like that there They were trying to

36:25

like make a quick buck providing

36:28

these records to research scientists, but

36:30

um weren't actually able

36:33

to give the scientists

36:35

as much information as they would need to be able to use

36:37

that kind of stuff. UM short

36:40

sighted, Like, yeah, that sounds

36:43

very bizarre. Yeah, and it's it's

36:45

a bunch of ships like that and it's coming in like

36:47

you're getting like one of the problems with this is

36:50

that, um, they

36:53

they approve a study like

36:55

or sorry they so the when

36:58

the hydroxy clorquin article comes

37:00

out saying that it's dangerous to give to certain

37:02

patients, they stop a bunch of studies to trying

37:04

to determine whether or not hydroxy workin works,

37:07

and then they have to restart those studies later

37:10

after it's retracted, which slows

37:12

down the period of time after which we get concrete

37:14

evidence that it doesn't work. So again, even

37:17

though like it might not seem like that's

37:19

a bad saying, it actually slows down the

37:21

process of figuring out that hydroxy quorkin

37:23

doesn't work. It's all part of this problem. Um

37:26

that Yeah, that makes total sense

37:28

because I'm so I'm so naive in these areas

37:31

and I'm like, wait that wood

37:33

fuck things up. Okay, Yeah,

37:35

I love it's just

37:38

bad. Now. One of the co authors of

37:40

both retracted studies was a guy named

37:42

Sapon Decide, and he's the founder

37:45

of Surgei Sphere, so he's founds

37:47

the company and is also one of the authors

37:49

of both of the studies that get

37:52

retracted. Um. And while his

37:54

co authors kind of all come out and say, hey, we're

37:56

were we no longer stand by these studies because

37:58

of issues with the data, he's notely quiet.

38:00

For the most part. I think he agrees to retract

38:02

one of them and not the other. Now and

38:05

two thousand and one or twenty

38:07

one. Sapon Decide was the co author

38:10

of another study using data from

38:12

his company, surge Sphere, which claimed

38:14

to find a large reduction in COVID mortality

38:16

when patients were given iver mecten.

38:19

It was first published to the Social Sciences

38:21

preprint server SSR in on April

38:24

six and a second version was posted

38:26

on April nineteenth, And this is

38:28

what caused PERU to add iver mecton

38:30

to their national standards of care. So

38:34

this guy, whose record couldn't be shadier

38:37

visa v COVID nineteen studies,

38:40

puts out another preprint, so

38:42

not peer reviewed, not a finished thing

38:45

on a server, because it immediately

38:47

shows like, look, COVID iver mecton

38:49

reduces COVID nineteen deaths and whole

38:52

nations start taking action based on this.

38:55

Now that is so can't they like I'm

38:58

right, I'm like trying to it. They just put his

39:01

credibility on. I mean he doesn't have any

39:03

credibility obviously, but just like, can how

39:06

can you continue to publish preprints

39:08

when your track record is that horrific?

39:12

Like how how? Yeah?

39:17

That's why? Fuck?

39:19

Okay, So so that preprint

39:21

comes out and that that is what like

39:25

result in ivermectin taking off.

39:28

Yeah, that's what results in it taking off In Latin

39:30

America. The f l c c C, I think, has much

39:33

more of a job of the tape. But this this feeds into that

39:35

too because it's one of the studies that they're siting.

39:38

So one of that studies authors

39:40

again, Sapondasi has co

39:42

authors on these studies who are more credible people,

39:45

and one of the studies co authors pulls

39:47

it from the pre print server because,

39:50

as he told Nature, he did not feel it was ready

39:52

for pure review. So it does get pulled,

39:55

but the damage is done. By that point, he's

39:57

already convinced the Peruvian government to add

40:00

it to their official like COVID protocol, and

40:02

Bolivia followed soon after. Now,

40:04

when the study seems like the pattern with this,

40:07

right, it's just like you put something out, you say, oh,

40:09

sorry, never mind, that information is terrible, but it's

40:11

too late because the information has already had

40:14

consequence. There's again

40:16

when you look at like the way the disinformation

40:18

spreads, it's a lot like how COVID spreads,

40:21

Like you have, they're both they're both

40:23

spreading. It's like a person fox

40:26

up and walks into a room without a

40:28

mask on, not realizing he's been exposed,

40:31

and he might realize an hour

40:33

later, but by that point he's already passed it on to

40:35

four people who then all go to the grocery store whatever.

40:37

Like it's it's the same way with disinformation.

40:40

It spreads like a virus and

40:42

it and it's like just too yeah. So it just takes

40:44

like one bad actor intentionally

40:47

doing it to Jesus

40:49

chrisis. And I think it's often a mix of

40:52

bad actors and people

40:54

who are acting in good faith but aren't quite

40:56

careful enough. Um now,

41:00

So the good news is that PERUME

41:03

removes iver mectin from their treatment guidelines

41:05

as soon as the study gets pulled. But by that point

41:07

other South American nations have started using

41:09

it and they don't all stop. And again, even

41:12

outside of that, regardless of what the state

41:14

health authorities are saying, people are now taking

41:16

it in mass right. So, back

41:18

in January of one, the n

41:21

i H, the National Institutes of Health in the United

41:23

States had changed its guidance on iver mectin

41:25

for the COVID treatment from against to neither

41:28

for nor against. So there's

41:30

enough data. By January the

41:33

sayre not against this, and we're hedging

41:35

it's complicated. Yeah, exactly, Okay,

41:39

got it. Now, in a reasonable

41:41

world, this would not have counted as a positive

41:43

endorsement. But we don't live in a reasonable

41:45

world. The NIH made this change

41:47

after Dr Corey, from the fl C

41:50

c C and w H O consultant

41:52

Dr Andrew Hill, presented data to the

41:54

n i H Treatments Guidelines Panel.

41:57

That same month, Dr Corey released

41:59

a study with the f l C c C co

42:01

founders and several other doctors that they believed

42:03

would convince the CDC and FDA

42:06

to approve iver mect in for use against

42:08

COVID. Now, by

42:10

this point, doctor Corey had become

42:12

convinced that iver met in was a bona fide

42:15

wonder drug, as he told the Senate, but

42:17

the people he asked to publish his study,

42:19

the study that he thought was going to convince the FDA

42:21

to approve it for COVID, we're less convinced.

42:24

Frontiers is an open access platform

42:27

for peer reviewed science journalism,

42:30

and they investigated the integrity of the

42:32

study and announced on March second that they

42:34

were rejecting the article for quote

42:36

a series of strong unsupported claims

42:38

based on studies with insufficient statistical

42:41

significance and at times without the use

42:43

of control groups. Oh my

42:45

god, this guy is going to have to start publishing in

42:47

like Highlights magazine. This is

42:49

so ridiculous. Now, I'm

42:52

not a scientist, Jamie, I'm in fact legally

42:54

the opposite, um, but I

42:57

know that control groups are important. If

43:00

you want to know if the thing does something, you need a

43:02

group of people who aren't doing the thing and

43:06

movies before they can come out much

43:09

less fucking pharmaceutical like. That's absolutely

43:11

yeah. So by this

43:14

point, vaccines were increasingly available

43:16

in mass around the United States. In

43:18

December, it had made sense that iver Mecton

43:21

had been on the FLCCCS protocol

43:23

because kind of a desperate time. But

43:25

by March, iver Mecton is still

43:27

part of their protocol, but none of the

43:29

vaccines had been added to their recommended

43:32

preventative protocol. So this is the point where

43:34

they're very clearly doing something

43:37

shady. Yeah, exactly, fucking

43:39

December, people can't get vaccines.

43:41

There's evidence iver Metin might help. It's

43:43

debatable whether or not it's responsible

43:46

to put it on there, but still completely but

43:50

there's an ument more sense to make

43:53

attempt to make that argument prevactive.

43:55

By March, motherfucker's are

43:57

walking into their cvs and getting vaccinated

43:59

and they still haven't added that to their protocol.

44:02

But the horse paste, I mean again, they're not telling people

44:04

to take the horse pace, They're telling people to get it prescribed. But whatever,

44:06

I'm gonna call it horse paste sometimes. So Dr

44:09

Corey also grew more combat combative

44:11

from this point forward, telling the Huffington's

44:13

Post quote when I came out and told the world

44:16

that cortico steroids were critical to save lives.

44:18

I got crushed for that until the recovery trial

44:20

came out and it became the standard of care worldwide

44:23

overnight. Which is true

44:25

that cortico steroids, that use was

44:27

criticized and they wind up being helpful. But also,

44:29

wasn't your idea? Broheim? Quick?

44:32

Yeah, like what you Is that actually

44:34

his voice? Or is that just you just made him Ben

44:36

Shapiro. Everyone's been Shapiro, Sophia.

44:39

It was about to say, like, what is it? I was like, do you

44:41

just wanted to sound like a dork? And then I found out

44:43

that was your Ben Shapiro voice? Okay,

44:45

that all tracks. That's 's just float probably

44:48

right, Yeah, if

44:50

I hate him, there, Ben Shapiro, that's the way it works.

44:53

Again. I'm just like, what is

44:55

the end game? There's

44:58

no endgame, Jamie. It's

45:01

Joker Ship. I hate

45:03

it is Joker Ship. It is Joker Ship.

45:05

It's it's and you know what's

45:07

Joaquin Phoenix got to say about any of

45:09

this. That's what I want to know, Jamie. I don't

45:12

know. He's like five six. I can't hear

45:14

him. Oh okay, so I forgot

45:16

your You're a you're a height

45:19

chauvinist. So the

45:23

other thing about cortico steroids, well, he's right

45:25

that people were like, I don't think this is a

45:27

good idea, and we're proven wrong when

45:29

the FLCCC embraced cortico steroids.

45:32

Cortico steroids were also very quickly shown

45:34

via extremely reputable studies to

45:36

be useful in COVID treatments, right, um

45:40

it, it's actual science

45:42

backed it up. And the same unequivocal evidence

45:45

did not come out for iver mecton. Well

45:48

we start to get right, yeah

45:51

at this point. Yeah, and and so

45:54

we have not especially by March. Again,

45:56

it's still a mix of small studies that shows

45:59

not all of which suggests that it works, some of which

46:01

are shady, whereas by

46:04

March there's fucking excellent data

46:06

that the vaccines are very effective.

46:09

Um so it's not the same

46:11

thing, you know, it just isn't. He's trying to

46:13

he's trying to make that that claim because

46:16

the it's it's his organizations

46:19

claim to fame. But like, it's not the same situation.

46:22

There were quickly studies that backed up the cortico

46:24

steroids thing there aren't isn't

46:26

the same body of evidence for ivermectin, And there's

46:28

a lot of evidence for vaccines, and you're not telling people

46:31

to take vaccines. Yeah, it's

46:33

fucked up. Uh Yeah, this is

46:35

absolutely fucked up. So

46:38

when he was asked why he's not telling people

46:40

to get vaccinated, Dr Pierre Corey said,

46:42

most of what we feel, and especially me, is

46:45

that the data on vaccines is moving so fast

46:47

and it's non transparent. I just really

46:49

don't know what to say about these vaccines.

46:51

I just don't feel comfortable with the kind of data

46:53

that we're getting again, the

46:56

big ivermine. I cannot be more specific

46:58

about this at this time. Yes,

47:01

the data is not transparent enough. What about

47:03

the fucking Surgis spear study showing ivermectin

47:06

is useful. Things had to get pulled

47:08

because they wouldn't give anyone access to the fucking medical

47:11

data anyway. In February,

47:14

YouTube pulled two videos from the December

47:16

eight Senate hearing where Dr Corey

47:19

called it a wonder drug. Specifically, they pulled the portions

47:21

discussing iver mecton and this included part of

47:23

Dr Corey's testimony. Ron Johnson,

47:26

a Republican senator from Wisconsin, immediately

47:28

took to the pages of the Wall Street Journal to

47:30

author an op ed titled YouTube

47:33

cancels the US Senate. God,

47:35

every part of that sentence is the biggest

47:38

loser ship I've ever heard of my night.

47:41

Absolute virgin stuff, right

47:44

Jesus, Yeah yeah so

47:48

quote and this is from Ron Johnson.

47:51

Dr Corey is part of a world renowned group

47:53

of physicians who developed a groundbreaking

47:55

use of cortico steroids to treat hospitalized

47:58

COVID patients. His testimony at a May Senate hearing

48:00

helped doctors rethink treatment protocols

48:02

and saved lives. At the December

48:04

hearing, he presented evidence regarding the use of ivermectin

48:07

a cheap and widely available drug that treats tropical

48:09

diseases caused by parasites for prevention an

48:11

early treatment of COVID nineteen. He described

48:14

a just published study from Argentina in which

48:16

about eight hundred healthcare workers received ivermectin

48:18

and four hundred didn't. None of the eight hundred

48:20

contracted COVID nineteen fifty eight percent

48:23

of the four hundred did. So

48:26

here's the thing about that. Here's the thing about

48:28

makes you think what Ron Johnson

48:31

said, you're telling me there's gonna be holes in this. This

48:33

is the one that, like, just today there's

48:36

a great BuzzFeed news article about that

48:38

Argentinean study, UM,

48:41

which is super inconsistent. One of the

48:43

problems with it is that depending on like where

48:45

you read, like what part of the study you read,

48:47

it gives you different numbers of how many people were

48:49

actually part of the test group and control

48:52

group. UM. Like it's

48:54

it's it's just not a well

48:56

conducted study, and there's actually debate,

48:59

there's actually a serious question as

49:01

to whether or not the study was conducted

49:03

at all. UM. So,

49:08

again, this just came out, So I'm going to scroll

49:10

down to the relevant point here.

49:13

UM. Yeah. Meanwhile,

49:16

the clinical trial database stated stated there

49:18

were two participants, but other things

49:20

didn't add up. It said the control group had seventy

49:22

two women and twenty six men, even though the paper said

49:24

fifty one women and forty eight men. The ages

49:27

also seemed mathematically improbable. The

49:29

paper states that nearly se participants

49:32

taking the therapy were under age forty. Despite

49:34

this, the clinical trial website states that the median

49:36

age, the age at the midpoint of the group was forty

49:39

two. Those might have been errors. Carvallo

49:41

conceded in the interview which was which

49:44

is one of the study authors, which was largely conducted large

49:47

errors. We are not a statistical

49:49

people, he said. We are not statistical

49:51

people, he said, Which is like, if you're doing a study, you

49:54

should be someone in the study

49:56

should be a statistical person because you're using

49:58

statistics to try to show that the medicine where um,

50:02

yes, it's wow,

50:05

okay, okay, So this is just a fucking

50:07

disaster. They're doing

50:09

a terrible job at like even

50:12

pr cleanup is just like nonsense,

50:15

it's just parts. Yeah,

50:17

and it's the journal charges uh,

50:20

like the BuzzFeed found that the journal, which

50:22

is a very new journal UM charged

50:25

two thousand dollars almost to publish the article.

50:27

UM, and then after BuzzFeed asked about the feed,

50:30

they dropped the price on their website. UM.

50:33

Carvallo admitted the study

50:35

author admitted that local drugmakers had

50:37

covered the expense of publishing the study and that

50:39

he and his colleagues had paid the rest out of pocket.

50:42

Um, there's a bunch shocked.

50:44

That's weird here, UM,

50:47

and it's it isn't weird. Yeah,

50:51

there's it's We're gonna talk about

50:53

a lot of other uh, sketchy

50:57

shit. And one of the problems is

50:59

that like least one of the hospitals where

51:01

the study was supposedly conducted denies

51:03

that it was conducted there. Um.

51:06

So there's a lot that's wrong with this study,

51:09

Like the study that Ron Johnson,

51:11

again is what Dr Corey cited in

51:13

the Senate and was what Ron Johnson points out

51:15

as like, look what he's being canceled for sharing

51:18

science is

51:21

toxic. Especially that I mean

51:23

it's like that

51:26

truly wasn't even something that would have occurred to me,

51:28

that the study didn't even happen, Like

51:30

they couldn't be bothered to create

51:33

a fake fucking study it's

51:36

not the only time, and it seems more

51:38

likely that, like there were some places where

51:40

they did a study and did it kind of poorly

51:43

because like also large parts of it, like the

51:45

control group stuff was taken on the honor system.

51:48

Um, so you shouldn't

51:50

do that. This

51:54

is this is the most opposite

51:56

in terms of steaks comparison.

52:00

But I've been deep in hot dog

52:02

culture for the last couple of months, and

52:05

there was a study that

52:07

was released last week saying that every

52:09

time you eat a hot dog you lose thirty six minutes

52:12

of your one human life, which

52:14

is such a wild and bizarre

52:17

claim to make, and if you bear it out,

52:19

it's very like anyone

52:22

can publish a study and it's

52:25

and I feel like any time and

52:27

obviously it's like I'm is

52:30

kind of that at the highest level and the highest

52:32

stakes possible. But whenever something gets

52:35

published, it's just like people

52:37

are going off of the headline

52:39

of like, well, if a study says it, it

52:42

must be true, and there's very little

52:45

Uh, well, who is conducting the

52:47

study, what are their qualifications, do

52:49

they have any reason to have

52:51

ill intent or whatever? Like all

52:54

I have to say this studies bullshit and I firmly

52:57

believe the hot dog thirty six minutes study is

53:00

bullshit because

53:03

clearly each hot dog takes ninety minutes

53:06

off of your life. Um, if

53:08

that were true, Robert, I would be rocketing

53:10

backwards in time right now. I would

53:12

be in seventeen something.

53:15

I would be wearing fucking five D petticoats.

53:19

I don't I don't know where it would be. I would

53:21

not be I would not be alive, and I would be

53:24

transcending dimensions in

53:26

time. It's just I just feel

53:28

like it's demonstrably untrue. Also,

53:31

being happy makes you live longer, so

53:34

I very least it evens out people

53:38

happy. Well, it is my potential,

53:40

it is my It is my stance

53:43

that hot dogs do kill people, and

53:45

that that's not a bad thing because climate

53:47

change, Baby, we got to reduce

53:49

emissions. Do you like

53:53

hot dogs, Robert? I love hot dogs,

53:55

Jamie. How what's your weight,

53:57

what's your what's your like? What's your

54:00

go to? I mean, is

54:02

literally any hot dog and I throw everything

54:05

on it. But the best hot dog I've

54:07

ever had, Jamie, And I guess

54:09

we can argue as to whether or not it's a hot dog. I was in

54:11

Lisbon and I was at this street market and

54:13

it was the bun was black because

54:15

it had squid ink in it. And instead of a hot

54:18

dog, it was an octopus tentacle and

54:20

there was like some sort of weird creamy salad

54:22

on. It was incredible. It was so fucking

54:25

tasty. Oh my god. So I

54:27

have to tell you, Robert, and this is gonna be really hard to

54:29

hear. What you ate was not a hot dog. It was

54:31

a piece of an octopus. I think

54:34

it's at that sounds

54:36

like it was literally an amazing day for you. If

54:38

it's a hot dog, it's a hot

54:41

dog. It's a hot dog. You have

54:43

the goll to to

54:45

zoom dot you I am tell me octopus

54:48

is hot dog. I cannot believe

54:50

that you can claim to be a hot dog

54:52

lover and say that it is possible

54:55

to discriminate about what is or isn't

54:57

a hot dog based on the kind of meat involved.

55:01

Look, a hot dog is

55:03

a mixture of garbage.

55:06

You can do it in ocean

55:09

trash, but that's

55:11

one piece of ocean trash. You need the

55:14

different butts of five things

55:16

in there were probably filled with plastic

55:19

because of the post and

55:21

then vegetarian hot dogs are made out of different

55:23

vegetable trash. So it's

55:25

like, sorry, I'm going to take

55:28

this debate offline. You listen

55:30

to these products and services. She

55:33

and I prepare to engage in a traditional

55:36

traditional knife

55:38

fight of our people. I

55:42

liked red huts in New Jersey, so

55:45

they're enjoy your products and services.

55:54

We're back, and I'm livid

55:56

at Jamie lived, but we have to put our

55:58

differences aside. Bleeding to

56:01

talk about ivermectin

56:04

the hot dog of anti

56:07

parasitic medications. I mean

56:09

that's an accurate comparison. Hot dogs

56:12

get cot talks, get bad enough rep

56:14

but you know getting an

56:16

unfair rep too. It's saved a lot of lives before.

56:18

You know this before

56:21

yeah, before it got before found

56:24

YouTube. Yeah, we're not canceling

56:26

ivermected. If you get a

56:28

parasite, please take it. If

56:32

you go into the river and start feeling

56:34

blind, take some ivermectin. But

56:37

you know that you can't deny

56:39

it. You can't deny it. It's proven. River

56:42

blindness is just that's going to stick with me

56:44

because I just didn't stay the funk away

56:46

from rivers. Jamie. It's

56:49

like people in Philadelphia so far

56:52

jumping in the flooded streets. It's like I've

56:55

walked down the street in Philadelphia. I've smelled

56:58

the sewers. You should not be in that water, guy, you

57:00

really should not of Yeah,

57:03

the subways in New York. It's

57:05

just wow to to be alive

57:08

at the end of the world. It's it's amazing.

57:10

No fun. It looked way more fun in

57:13

movies, yeah, because it seems

57:15

like you were going to fall deeply in love and then

57:17

the world was going to end. It turns out that's not how

57:19

it goes. And also in the movies, every single

57:21

person doesn't have a U t I. But it turns

57:23

out when the world falls apart, everybody starts

57:25

getting U t I s. I've

57:28

got a U t I on Splash Mountain

57:30

once. That was my sound t

57:32

I. Yeah, I'm surprised that you don't

57:35

hear about that more. Every time I tell

57:37

the ant people people

57:40

should talk about their U t E s, they're very uncomfortable.

57:42

And I feel like if I knew I've

57:45

had have you ever had a conversation with someone and after

57:47

they're like, I had a U t I when we hung out

57:49

that day, and that's why I was being very bizarre

57:52

in my behavior. I feel like you should

57:54

we should just normalize telling each other we have U,

57:57

T I S. So then if you're being a weird

58:00

hang, there's context. M

58:04

we could get like a necklace of some sort or

58:06

a bracelet like

58:08

a swinger's party. Yeah, but

58:12

so um yeah

58:18

Johnson talked about this Argentinean study

58:20

is full of ship and an idiot

58:22

um um

58:25

and fuck him. I should also note that even

58:29

even based on the inaccurate uh

58:32

like, even like the study itself is bad,

58:34

but even based on what the study said, he got

58:36

it wrong, like the study claims to have had

58:39

uh. He claims that the study had eight hundred

58:41

participants, it had three hundred,

58:44

um, which means that even based on his

58:46

own claims, he got the study wrong by a third.

58:49

Um well, he said, he's not like. I

58:51

mean, look, these guys aren't stats

58:53

guys. There's there's science, guys,

58:55

and science famously doesn't involve numbers

58:58

or accuracy. So I should

59:00

also note that there was a follow up study

59:02

in Argentina or released in July that

59:05

showed quote no significant effect on preventing

59:07

the hospitalization of patients with COVID nineteen

59:10

that goes against the claims of a prophylactic effects.

59:13

And this is how many demonstrative

59:15

evidence against this. At this point

59:19

we haven't even gotten into the worst one. Um.

59:21

But again it's all part of the same problem where

59:24

it is not bad and it is fact, in

59:26

fact, a necessary part of medical science to

59:28

do a series of small studies into whether something

59:31

might work before you do larger studies that are

59:33

more robust. The problem with that is

59:36

idiots and grifters who will take this study

59:38

on thirty people that may one day be useful

59:41

and eventually arriving at a treatment, and

59:43

instead say, start buying up all

59:45

of this ship that you can and take it. And

59:48

if anyone tells you not to, it's not because

59:50

the science isn't ready yet, it's because they're

59:52

trying to stop you from taking control of

59:54

your own health and they don't want you to. They want to

59:56

but a micro chip in your body and your yeah,

59:59

it's a threat. Here. Independence

1:00:03

listen to me about your healthcare. I did

1:00:06

m m A. Anyone

1:00:09

who did mm A. There's

1:00:12

certain things I will listen to people who did m m

1:00:14

A about, like, for example, m m A

1:00:17

if Joe Rogan, if I have a problem getting

1:00:19

someone in a headlock, and Joe Rogan offers me

1:00:21

advice. I will take that advice. Motherfucker's

1:00:23

pretty good at that. I'm

1:00:25

not going to take Joe Rogan's advice about whether

1:00:28

or not vaccines are legitimate. Well, look,

1:00:30

i'll meet you. I'll meet you there. If

1:00:33

if I needed to learn how to look sweatier

1:00:35

than anyone's ever looked in a fully air conditioned

1:00:38

room, I would ask Joe Rogan because he

1:00:40

has done the hours for that. He's

1:00:43

done it for over ten thousand hours. He's

1:00:46

he's the best looking sweaty in a small room.

1:00:48

He's incredible at it virtue, so

1:00:51

he's got the money. It's it's

1:00:53

there's it's a fair conditioned thing.

1:00:56

Man, Like, what is wrong with you? Anyway?

1:00:58

I believe that because the

1:01:02

art episodes that first

1:01:04

of all, it's performance, right, No, it's but

1:01:06

the guest is never sweaty.

1:01:08

I think that he's the room is forty two

1:01:10

degrees and he's just sweating, sweating,

1:01:12

sweatings because of all of the random pills

1:01:15

he takes. That looks his

1:01:17

brain is under an intense amount of

1:01:19

pressure from all of those pills. God,

1:01:22

what a loser.

1:01:24

Okay, it's amazing. It's amazing

1:01:26

that he's the most single, most influential

1:01:29

person in global media. Um,

1:01:31

and he looks like a stick of salami.

1:01:34

He looks like a thumb. Fuck to hot

1:01:36

dog again

1:01:39

with the hot dog slander. Think

1:01:42

they're the same shade of red Jamie, So

1:01:47

yeah and

1:01:49

again. One of the other problems with this so again.

1:01:52

One problem is that you get a bunch of small

1:01:54

studies. People will pick and choose and

1:01:56

grab studies that really may not be as as

1:01:59

because they're not super scientific literate. They

1:02:01

may think that that study says more than it does. Another

1:02:04

problem is that when you have a bunch of small studies,

1:02:06

you might get It's very common you can

1:02:08

have five or six small studies that are all

1:02:11

good studies and I'll tell you opposite things

1:02:13

because they're small. And when you have a small

1:02:15

study, minor variables can

1:02:17

throw off your results, which is part of why

1:02:19

again, science is an iterative process. But

1:02:22

the way put blushing works, all the studies are

1:02:24

just getting shotguned out into the public sphere.

1:02:26

This is not an issue with obscure topics because

1:02:29

researchers are the only ones looking at the data and they

1:02:31

understand how this stuff actually works. But

1:02:33

it's a problem with these epidemics because

1:02:35

again there's all these fucking grifters out there

1:02:38

looking for alternatives to the deep State vaccine.

1:02:40

And then, of course there is the other another

1:02:43

issue, which is that not every scientist

1:02:45

involved in the research process is acting

1:02:47

in good faith. You have guys like doctor

1:02:49

to Sigh and Surges Sphere putting out shady

1:02:52

data for unclear reasons, but probably

1:02:54

with some financial benefit. And then you

1:02:56

have people who put up studies and public porpositories

1:02:59

that have not been peer reviewed, and they

1:03:01

know that most of the public won't know the difference,

1:03:03

they'll just see that it's a study. And you

1:03:06

have guys like Dr Pierre Corey, who,

1:03:08

when he was criticized for his sketchy Senate

1:03:10

testimony, said I still stand by it, and

1:03:12

I think history will prove it to be true, even

1:03:15

though history didn't. So

1:03:18

by early nearly all

1:03:20

of the studies that purported to show a benefit from

1:03:22

iver mectin use were small. There was one

1:03:24

hugely influential exception, a November

1:03:27

study published by Dr Ahmed el

1:03:29

Ghazar of Binja University in Egypt.

1:03:31

It claimed to be a randomized control

1:03:34

study that had found early iver met in use

1:03:36

not only reduced transmission of COVID but

1:03:38

reduced mortality by as much as nine If

1:03:42

true, this would have been huge

1:03:45

world changing news. This would have

1:03:47

meant that a cheap, widely available

1:03:49

anti parasitic was as effective as the

1:03:51

best vaccines. The fact

1:03:53

that this study was so large, again there's

1:03:56

like four hundred people. I think in this study

1:03:58

um had impacts that ripple out far and minde

1:04:00

because most of the studies are smaller. In

1:04:03

cases like ivermectin, when researchers are

1:04:05

analyzing a bunch of far flung little studies

1:04:08

to try to determine whether or not something works, they

1:04:10

like to bunch all of those studies together

1:04:12

and do something called a meta analysis.

1:04:15

To explain what a meta analysis is, I'm

1:04:17

going to quote from a write up by epidemiologist

1:04:19

Giddy and my earrowitz Cats, who again

1:04:21

is an epidemiologist and who like

1:04:24

analyzes scientific studies for

1:04:27

a living uh, and is thus the

1:04:29

kind of person you would go to for

1:04:31

information about this, as opposed to a random pulmonologist

1:04:34

anyway. Quote. To solve

1:04:36

the problem of multiple small trials, we conduct

1:04:38

things called systematic reviews and meta analyzes.

1:04:41

These are scientific aggregations of research

1:04:43

that pool all of the known studies on a topic

1:04:45

into a single place and then combine them into

1:04:47

a statistical model so we can see what the

1:04:50

overall effect of a drug might be. Instead

1:04:52

of a dozen small studies, we get one big aggregated

1:04:55

estimate, which in theory is the final word

1:04:57

on whether or not a treatment is effective. The

1:05:00

only problem with these analyzes is

1:05:02

that if a single study has a large enough

1:05:04

number of participants or a huge effect,

1:05:06

it can sway the overall trend

1:05:09

into something positive, even though on

1:05:11

the whole the studies have not found a result.

1:05:14

Now, generally this isn't a huge issue, but

1:05:16

it does mean that you sometimes have an entire body

1:05:18

of literature saying that something works using

1:05:20

the gold standard aggregation of many studies

1:05:23

that is actually based on the results of

1:05:25

a single piece of research. Uh,

1:05:28

yeah, you see. And how this could be a problem this

1:05:31

I you know, I'm starting

1:05:34

to get the picture of how

1:05:36

this ship. Uh and

1:05:38

what is I mean, it's what is the fucking

1:05:41

solution? I

1:05:43

don't you know that? That is the thing. The problem

1:05:45

is very clear to me. The way that the way

1:05:48

that we have the way that medical

1:05:50

scientific studies are released and

1:05:52

shared, and that this information like it

1:05:55

does not work with the

1:05:57

way the modern information ecosystem

1:05:59

works, right, and that is

1:06:01

a problem if you're looking for a

1:06:03

solution. I'm not a scientist, I'm not your guy.

1:06:05

I am a disinformation study

1:06:09

or professionally, and I can tell you where

1:06:11

the problem is coming in, right,

1:06:13

right, the problem, I mean, the way you just laid

1:06:16

it out, the problem is extremely clear, but the

1:06:19

actionable solution is not

1:06:23

at all. It's a mix of thing. You know. It's not just that

1:06:25

this stuff gets published early in people at cherry

1:06:27

pick studies. It's also this problem of like some of these studies

1:06:30

are sketchy, some of these places allow you to publish things

1:06:32

before the period. Like there's a number of problems,

1:06:34

but the problems are clear, the solution

1:06:36

less so so, and the consequences

1:06:38

are extremely clear yea too.

1:06:41

And the stakes are extreme, are really high. Okay,

1:06:44

So in June, it's

1:06:47

just what it feels like to have Joe Rogan's brain.

1:06:50

It just feels like really tight, Like how

1:06:52

sweaty are you right now? Jamie? I'm

1:06:55

I'm sucking drenched and I'm

1:06:58

sitting in me freezer.

1:07:01

So I feel like I might feel like he feels.

1:07:03

Now is your best friend an

1:07:05

incredible jiu jitsu expert

1:07:08

who also believes the moon landing was fake in

1:07:10

the Earth is flat? Because if so, you might

1:07:12

actually just be Joe Rogan. Wait

1:07:15

a second, that would explain

1:07:18

so much of you do. Hang out with Eddie

1:07:21

Bravo a lot. So I

1:07:23

keep screaming to for comedians

1:07:25

to move to Austin and then they hate it and

1:07:27

then they leave because it's a terrible

1:07:30

place anyway. Um So. In

1:07:32

June, the first large meta analysis

1:07:34

of iver mectin studies was published in the American

1:07:37

Journal of Therapeutics. It found quote

1:07:39

moderate certainty evidence finds that

1:07:41

large reductions and COVID nineteen deaths are

1:07:43

possible using iver mectin. Now

1:07:46

that kind of wording and a meta analysis

1:07:48

published in a reputable journal had huge

1:07:51

reverberations. By the end of June,

1:07:53

iver mecton was being discussed on Our Friend

1:07:55

Joe Rogan Show in its first ever

1:07:57

emergency episode was so importan

1:08:00

and he did an emergency is just giving all

1:08:02

thoughts a chance from her. I don't know what's

1:08:04

wrong with I think every thought a chance.

1:08:07

I think it's vacated. He might be. We'll

1:08:09

talk about Joe, and we'll talk about Joe

1:08:11

in part two. Honestly, YEA. In

1:08:14

this emergency episode, Dr

1:08:16

Corey sits down Joe

1:08:18

Rogan, Dr Pierre Corey of the f l

1:08:20

C c C and Brett Weinstein, who

1:08:22

will talk about in part two but is a grifter, uh,

1:08:25

sit down to talk about how iver mectin is

1:08:27

a fucking wonder drug. Now that

1:08:30

episode dropped days after that

1:08:32

first meta analysis was published. I cannot

1:08:34

overstate the influence of having that big meta

1:08:37

analysis like played on kind

1:08:39

of making this look more like a thing

1:08:41

than it really is. Weinstein claimed,

1:08:43

quote, the censorship campaign

1:08:45

obscuring iver mectin is a prophylactic against

1:08:48

stars cove two and as a treatment for COVID nineteen

1:08:50

kills. Is it about shareholders in EU

1:08:52

as? Now this discussion

1:08:55

merged with Rogan's own worries about vaccine

1:08:57

passports and whether or not young healthy

1:09:00

people needed the vaccine. Ever, Mecton

1:09:02

was now built as a replacement to

1:09:04

the vaccine, where six months before Dr

1:09:06

Corey himself had pushed it as just a stop

1:09:09

gap until the vaccine was ready, and

1:09:11

for a while that meta analysis, and Dr

1:09:13

Elgassar's study gave Dr Corey

1:09:16

and other iver mectin advocates a link to stand

1:09:18

on. They could point to this massive study and

1:09:20

say, hey, why isn't the mainstream

1:09:22

media covering this? It must be because I ever,

1:09:24

mecton is a generic over the counter drug, and

1:09:27

so they're not big farm is not going to make money,

1:09:29

so they're hiding it. Now.

1:09:31

The reality is that iver Metton was sucking

1:09:34

everywhere. It was all over alternative media,

1:09:36

like the Joe Rogan podcast, which has a vastly

1:09:38

larger reach than any mainstream news network.

1:09:40

He gets like a hundred million downloads in a month. Reputable

1:09:44

reporter, Yeah, like CNN

1:09:46

is not as fucking influential as Joe Rogan. At

1:09:48

this point, reputable reporters were hesitant

1:09:50

to write too favorably about iver mectin,

1:09:53

though, because as soon as that Egyptian study

1:09:55

dropped, there were questions about its veracity.

1:09:57

And the study of course proved to be gus,

1:10:00

which, as we talked about earlier, throws

1:10:02

the entire net meta analysis into question.

1:10:06

Gideon my Erowitz Coon or whatever Gideon

1:10:08

MK is how he writes on the I've read his full name early

1:10:10

whatever, Gideon that epidemiologist I quoted earlier.

1:10:13

He has a hobby of analyzing bad scientific

1:10:16

studies and pointing out why they're disreputable.

1:10:18

He is an actual scientist and an actual epidemiologist.

1:10:21

He's not a Joe rogue, and unlike

1:10:23

Dr Corey, he specializes in a field

1:10:25

relevant to talking about whether or not iver

1:10:28

mect and fucking works. In July,

1:10:30

he wrote a devastating piece

1:10:32

about Dr Elgasar's study. A

1:10:35

number of his technical criticisms of the study

1:10:37

are not things I understand, but this bit

1:10:39

here should be clear to everyone. Quote

1:10:42

the entire introduction appears to be plagiarized.

1:10:44

Indeed, it's very easy to confirm this. A

1:10:47

copy pasted a few phrases from different

1:10:49

paragraphs into Google, and it is immediately

1:10:51

apparent that most of the introduction has been lifted

1:10:53

from elsewhere online without attribution or

1:10:56

acknowledgement. So I hope of it

1:10:58

like the first chapter of A Babysitter's Right

1:11:00

off the bag. That's a problem.

1:11:03

That's a little bit of a problem. Right, that's

1:11:05

a little bit of a problem. But

1:11:08

what's worse is that the numbers in the

1:11:10

study are frankly impossible

1:11:13

which has thrown considerable doubt again

1:11:15

on whether or not the study was actually conducted

1:11:18

at all. Quote in

1:11:20

Table four, the study shows means, standard

1:11:23

deviation, and ranges for recovery time and

1:11:25

patients within the study. The issue is

1:11:27

that with the reported range of nine to twenty

1:11:29

five days, a mean of eighteen, and the standard deviation

1:11:31

of eight, there are very few configurations

1:11:34

of numbers that would leave you with this result. You

1:11:36

can even calculate this yourself using

1:11:38

this tool developed by the clever fraud detectives

1:11:40

James Heather's, Nick Brown, Jordan and Ia and Tim

1:11:42

Vandersey. To have a mean of eighteen days.

1:11:45

Consistent with the other values, the majority

1:11:47

of the patients in this group would have had to stay in the hospital

1:11:49

for either nine or twenty five days exactly.

1:11:53

So a lot of like when you actually do the

1:11:55

data weird shit. Somehow,

1:11:58

it gets even worse. Turns out that the

1:12:00

authors uploaded the actual data they used

1:12:02

for the study into an online repository.

1:12:05

While the data is locked, one

1:12:07

of the like people in analyzing this managed

1:12:10

to guess the password in the file, which was one two

1:12:12

three four, and gain an act access

1:12:14

to the anonymous patient level information that

1:12:17

the authors used to put the paper together. I've

1:12:21

got a copy, and it's amazing how obvious the flaws

1:12:23

are even at a casual glance. For example, the

1:12:25

study reports getting ethical approval and beginning

1:12:28

approval in beginning on the eighth of June, But

1:12:30

in the data file uploaded by the authors onto the website

1:12:33

of the preprint, fully one third of the people who died

1:12:35

from COVID nineteen were already dead when the

1:12:37

researchers started to recruit their patients.

1:12:40

Unless they were getting dead people to consent to participate

1:12:42

in the trial, that's not really possible.

1:12:45

Moreover, about the entire

1:12:47

group of patients who were recruited for the support supposedly

1:12:50

prospecs perspective randomized trial appeared

1:12:52

to have been hospitalized before the study even

1:12:54

started, which is either a mind boggling breach

1:12:56

of ethics or a very bad sign of potential fraud.

1:12:59

Even worse, if you look at the values for different patients,

1:13:01

it appears that most of groups Group four are

1:13:04

simply clones of each other, with the same

1:13:06

or largely similar initials co morbidities,

1:13:08

lymphocyte scores, etcetera. So

1:13:11

this is the worst life.

1:13:16

Like we're recruiting ghosts were

1:13:18

recruiting clumps. We got a

1:13:20

lot of ghosts in the study, the

1:13:23

big farmaties. I want you to know what ghosts have

1:13:25

to say about medicine, so

1:13:30

I will like, oh my god, mhm,

1:13:34

problems that

1:13:37

not mistakes but like lies. Yeah,

1:13:40

it's a lot of problems. And getting is not the only

1:13:42

guy breaking this down and blowing A number

1:13:44

of people try to But by the time this gets

1:13:46

thoroughly debunked, it had been downloaded a hundred

1:13:48

and fifty thousand times and cited in two

1:13:51

different meta analyzes that showed iver

1:13:53

mectmus having a huge medical benefit, and

1:13:55

it was the largest study in both meta

1:13:57

analyzes. So again,

1:14:00

when you've got a bunch of small studies and one

1:14:02

big study, this one involved foreign to test subjects,

1:14:05

that large study can skew the results of a meta

1:14:07

analysis, which is what happened here. Quote.

1:14:10

If you look at those large aggregate models and remove

1:14:12

just this single study, ivermectin loses

1:14:15

almost all of its purported benefits. Take

1:14:17

the recent meta analysis by Bryant at All that

1:14:19

has been all over the news. They found a sixty two

1:14:21

percent reduction in risk of death for people who were

1:14:23

treated with ivermectin compared to controls when combining

1:14:26

randomized trials. However, if you remove

1:14:28

the Algazar paper from their model and rerun it,

1:14:30

the benefit goes from six to

1:14:33

fifty two percent and largely loses its

1:14:35

statistical significance. There's no

1:14:37

benefit scene whatsoever for people who have severe

1:14:39

COVID nineteen, and the confidence intervals

1:14:41

for people with mild or moderate disease become

1:14:44

extremely wide. If you include another

1:14:46

study that was published after the Bryant meta analyses

1:14:48

came out, which found no benefit for iver mected

1:14:50

on death, the benefits scene in the model disappear

1:14:53

entirely. For another recent meta

1:14:55

analysis, simply excluding el Gazar is

1:14:57

enough to remove the positive effect entirely,

1:15:00

and so in one fell swoop,

1:15:03

the very best scientific case for iver mecton

1:15:05

as a COVID treatment kind of collapses within

1:15:08

the medical field reaction to the word Gidding

1:15:10

and others had done busting this bad study was

1:15:12

Swift, the preprint Servery that had published

1:15:14

dr Elgazar study before peer review pulled

1:15:17

it due to ethical concerns. The meta

1:15:19

analyzes, though, are still out there and still

1:15:21

being cited, and that's

1:15:25

I guess all. We're gonna talk about in part one. Oh

1:15:29

good's it's probably yeah,

1:15:32

this is this is this

1:15:34

is so troubling, I mean and

1:15:37

it's I mean, I

1:15:40

knew the studies were gonna be it was gonna

1:15:42

be bad for sure, but

1:15:45

this is like a level of disinformation

1:15:48

and negligence that I had not

1:15:50

anticipated. Wow,

1:15:53

Wow, Wow, what name? What

1:15:55

a nightmare? Um all,

1:16:00

Jamie, you got a plug

1:16:03

things? Oh yeah, I could plug

1:16:06

things. Uh here, here's

1:16:08

a plug. You can listen to all of ac

1:16:10

cast out now, which

1:16:13

is my podcast about the

1:16:16

history of Kathy comics

1:16:19

and twentieth century American

1:16:22

feminism. Uh yeah,

1:16:24

or you could uh listen to

1:16:26

the Bechtel Cast, or you could follow

1:16:29

me on Twitter or Instagram

1:16:32

and Twitter is Jamie left his help. Instagram's

1:16:35

Jamie christ Superstar. And

1:16:37

that's all. I think. That That's all I have to say. Oh. Also,

1:16:40

also, I am still soliciting

1:16:43

hot dog recommendations.

1:16:45

I've been to a lot of places I've

1:16:48

tried. I think, all the all the big dogs,

1:16:50

all the places that are on the listicles,

1:16:52

I've been to all of those. But if there is an obscure

1:16:55

hot dog place that you

1:16:58

think I should try in the

1:17:01

Continental us because I cannot

1:17:04

we can't go anywhere. Uh,

1:17:07

let me know, I'm interested. Yeah, Oh, there's

1:17:09

a great there's a great uh hot

1:17:12

dog place in Lisbon where you can get something

1:17:15

that I will argue as a hot dog, where

1:17:17

you can get a piece of octopus on a hot

1:17:19

dog bun. If it's random, it's

1:17:21

a hot dog. It's

1:17:24

not random meat. If it's just one meat,

1:17:26

it could be random. You could just stick your

1:17:29

knife in the ocean. Sometimes you're gonna get random.

1:17:31

It could be wearing a Jack Skellington sweatshirt.

1:17:34

That's not random, Jamie, that's a

1:17:37

popular media phenomenon.

1:17:40

I look, I I I

1:17:42

had a Jack Skellington hoodie before I had ever

1:17:45

seen that damn movie. And then I watched it

1:17:47

Certain Dido or

1:17:50

Ring creepy. Yeah, I know. Before.

1:17:52

Well, that's just if you want to be taken serious by

1:17:54

the kids who play Hackey Sack outside, you gotta

1:17:57

have a Jack Skellington t shirt. That's just how

1:17:59

the social time it was at that time. Well,

1:18:02

there's some free advice if you want children

1:18:04

to like um in two thousand

1:18:06

and seven. In two thousand and seven,

1:18:09

if you're traveling back in time in two thousand

1:18:11

and seven, and it is critical that

1:18:13

fourteen year olds think you're cool. Jamie

1:18:16

Loftis has the

1:18:19

I have a thirty dollar solution for you. It's

1:18:21

called the Jack Skellington Hood solution for you is

1:18:25

more money back then though, so keep that in mind.

1:18:28

Yeah, that's good. That's a couple of weeks of allowance.

1:18:31

Well, follow us a pasters spot on, turn Instagram

1:18:33

or at cool Zone Media for all the things. We'll

1:18:36

be back Thursday. I oh,