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In this episode of Balancing the Christian Life , we talk

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about raising boys . Welcome

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to Balancing the Christian Life . I'm Dr Kenny Embry

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. Join me as we discover how to be better

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Christians and people in the digital age

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. So

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my older son , jake , asked me a question

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the other day . He'd been reading a book by Marcus

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Aurelius and he asked so

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, dad , what do you make of the Stoics

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? First of all , I love

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that question . I know there are conclusions

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the Stoics reach that I don't agree with , but the

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idea of being someone who takes

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responsibility for your own development

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is one of those things I think both Stoicism

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and Christianity share in common

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. I thought it was a smart question

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of Jake to see some of the similarities

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that he wanted to talk out with his dad

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, but I also knew that

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this was a conversation I

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would never have with my daughters . It's

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not because they're not bright . Both my

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daughters , emma and Abby , are extremely

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smart but there's just a difference

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between raising boys and girls , and

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the idea that my son Jake would want to

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talk about things like philosophies

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or computer systems falls

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in line with what my experience has been with

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both . I believe men

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and women are just different . So

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what is that difference ? I mean

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from my own history , I

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know being a dad to sons is different

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than being a dad to daughters . I

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wanted to talk this out with a couple of guys

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who have raised sons and

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, yes , I plan to do the same for daughters

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at some point , but that's not today

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. First of all , I brought back

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a good friend , phil Robertson . Phil

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has been evangelist for a long time . He's

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married to his wife , cheryl , and works with

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the Valrico Church outside of Tampa . His

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son , gray , has recently moved out

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and established his own life . Josh

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Creel has become a good friend and

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is the main evangelist where I worship in

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Tampa . Josh has two boys

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, jared and Ethan , who are 14

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and 11 . And he lives with his

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wife , jana , right outside Tampa . I

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want to talk today about raising boys

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because I think there's a lot of difference between

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raising boys and raising girls , and

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I picked both of you guys for very specific

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reasons . Phil , you're somebody

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who has a son that is out of the nest

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but not out of your life . I think what , in some

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ways , being a parent to an

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adult child is even more

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complicated than raising young children . Josh

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, you're in the thick of it . How old are Jared and

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Ethan ?

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Jared is 14 and Ethan is 11

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. There you go . And Phil , how old is Gray

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at this point ?

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Gray just turned 25 .

2:41

Nice To put my situation on the table . I've

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got two and two . I've got two

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boys , two girls . Jake is 21

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and Kant is 15 . I

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can speak for myself and I feel fairly confident

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I'm speaking for you guys as well . You become

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a parent before you are really ready

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to become a parent . What makes

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for a good parent ? That isn't overindulgent

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nor is too strict .

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I was 31 when we

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had Jared . What you said

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about not being ready to be a parent isn't limited

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to age . It's not just those who are 22

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or 21 , however old they were . I'm

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going to go straight to Scripture here for my part

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of the answer . One of the passages

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that I always go to when thinking about parenting

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and particularly about being a father , is what God

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said of Abraham as far as him being

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a father to his people , and

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that was in Genesis 18 and verse 19 . And

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there's a couple of things that kind of stick out to

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me . God says I have

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chosen him . Now , granted , this

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is Abraham . God is choosing

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him specifically , and

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I think all of us , if we remembered that

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we are in

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some way chosen by God to raise

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these young men

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and women . I think that's borne out in

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Scripture , because you look at Malachi

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2 and , granted , that's the passage we go to

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to talk about divorce , and

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I really like how the English standard reads it there , because

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the point that the prophet

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is making is what

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was God looking for in

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these unions and why is God so upset

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that the men at that time were divorcing

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their spouses ? It says I was looking for godly

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offspring . God

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has chosen Abraham and

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again , in some ways , god has chosen us . I'm

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entrusting you with

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these souls , and

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so the first step , then , is remember

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that these aren't just my children , they're

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the children God has given to

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me . And then you move further in the text

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. So God chose Abraham that

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he may command his children and his household

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after him to keep the

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way of the Lord . So I'm

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given authority . God gives me

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that authority as a father , but

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he doesn't give me the authority just to say , all

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right , kids , do what I want you

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to do . That's not

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the point . The authority is

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given so that I can instruct them

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in the ways of the Lord

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, and hopefully that kind

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of helps me to balance that

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being too permissive or too strict

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, because I want them to respect

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my authority , because I want them to respect

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my authority on small things , so

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that when I get to the bigger things

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, that I have some weight there

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, because I'm now trying to instruct

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them not just in OK , keep

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your room clean , but here's how

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you ought to treat that young lady , here's how you ought

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to treat your teachers , and

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on down the line . So I go to

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Genesis 18 , 19 just

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to kind of , I think , help strike that balance

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.

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I appreciate exactly what Josh is

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saying , because that is the foundation

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of any relationship

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, but especially a relationship

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as parent with child . It's

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all going to go back to our

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humble walk with the Lord and

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that we're willing to be instructed

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ourselves . We began this question

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, kenny , with respect to the

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idea of our age and when we become

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parents . Like Josh , I

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was 30 . And

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I think we all have these preconceived

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ideas of what we're going to do as

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a parent , how we're going to handle things

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, and then that first day

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that you have this child in your

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arms , all that goes right

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out the window and

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you're just scared to death . I

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can literally remember praying

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beside Jill's bed

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saying Dear Lord , please don't let

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me mess this up . I will confess

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, first and foremost , I lean on Cheryl . Here's

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Cheryl , help me , you got this

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, just tell me what to do . But

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at the same time , it's the

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idea of knowing that the Lord has entrusted

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me with a soul and he's

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not just going to throw me out there

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without any guidance . If

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I can lean back on his

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wisdom , I will get some of those

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answers . I will see in

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stories whether it's the prodigal son

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, whether it's the way he related to David

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, whether it's the way the Lord

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shows his relationship and

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his own ministry and the way that he relates

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to his disciples and even

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those who are tax collectors and sinners

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. I will understand the

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boundaries of strict and

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leniency by just

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looking at him and helping that carry

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over into my relationship with my children

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. Generally , we tend

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to parent in

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relation to the way we were

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parented , and

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that can be a good thing and a bad thing . If

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you had great parents , well then maybe

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you're going to have some great principles and guidelines

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to follow . If you had challenging parents

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, well then you're going to simply

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parent on what you saw not

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to do , and I get that . But

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children are not easily

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cut and dry projects where here's

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one way that's going to work for every

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kid . It's an art , not necessarily

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a science at times , and

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we have to respect the individual boundaries

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of each individual heart . And

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when they start having personality , that's

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a wonderful thing because they can begin to communicate

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with you . But it's also a frustrating

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thing because immediately you

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see all right , we've got an attitude

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problem . All

8:28

right , we have this problem . Oh , we're going to have to

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work on this . It's funny how quickly

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that rears itself in

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our personality .

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I think one of the things that I would say and

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I want to have to throw my hat in the ring a little

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bit here , because I've got kids and

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one of the things that I know is , if I were to

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treat Emma the same way I treat Jake

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, it's just not going to work

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. One of the things that I know

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is I cannot force Emma to

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do anything , but I can force

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Jake to do things , and if you

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start looking at all

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Jake's favorite things , he didn't go

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into any one of those things voluntarily . Katie

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and I forced him into all

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of those things and then they became

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his passions . I can't

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do that same thing with Emma , but

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likewise I can't do that with Abby either . I

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can't force them into those things , but I

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can with Jake and can't my

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two boys . I don't know why , but

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I guess one of the things that I would say is learn

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your kid , because some

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of them need to be forced to things

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and when we come up with these , just

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listen to your child . Some

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children you need to listen to and some

9:38

children you need to say this is

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where you're going , you're going to be there

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at 10 o'clock . Tell me again what time you're

9:45

going to be there , and some people need

9:47

that level of instruction . Emma

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, on the other hand , had the alarm clock going three

9:51

hours before the event and was

9:54

very much on top of things

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, and again it's that my

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problem was I thought I was going to have

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a lot more influence on how my children turned

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out . I ended up inheriting

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children that already had a personality and

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already had something going

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, and I basically had to , number

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one , adapt and adjust

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to how they already were . Does

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that make sense to you guys , what I'm saying

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here ?

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It does . I get too much

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in the providential aspect of this . But

10:26

going back to even that point about

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God is entrusting us with these souls . Well

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, maybe the reason why we

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have these individual personalities that

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we do is because God's also saying yeah , your

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character needs a little help here . My

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first son is the chill

10:45

son . He's the son that

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always all I had to do was look at

10:49

him sternly and he'd kind of melt . My

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second son is bless his heart . He's

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been the subject of many a sermon illustration

10:59

and we're

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still working on him , and

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maybe that means just God's working on

11:06

me a little bit here .

11:07

I think God definitely works

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on us through our children . There's

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no doubt about that . But

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I think it's kind of one of those things too is

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all of us have been fearfully

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and wonderfully made

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and each of us are unique

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, totally different

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in a good way , and

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our personalities whether

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we're rule followers

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or we're a little bit

11:36

of those who have a tendency to be

11:38

rebellious those are always going

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to be blessings and curses

11:42

in those personalities . Our

11:44

role as a parent is first of all and

11:47

Sheryl and I did this we sought

11:49

to identify the unique personality

11:52

of our children . This

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was actually before the Enneagram became

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a big deal , which , by the way , I love

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the Enneagram . I think it is very helpful

12:03

in so many respects to

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learn but nonetheless , when

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you learn your child's bent

12:09

, when you learn your

12:11

child's natural behavior

12:14

and thinking process and you see

12:16

that , then you mold your parenting

12:19

to the needs of that

12:21

personality . And I think ultimately

12:23

it begins with this and to me this

12:25

is the most important thing all parents need

12:27

to realize Parenting

12:29

is a full time job . It

12:32

is a full time

12:34

If you want to be successful

12:36

as a parent or you want to be

12:38

the best parent you can be , you have

12:41

to recognize this is your first

12:43

mission filled . This is your utmost

12:45

responsibility . This comes before everything

12:47

else and you need to treat

12:49

it like that . And while you have

12:51

those wonderful moments where you can celebrate your

12:53

victories , you're going to have those moments where it's

12:55

greatly aggravating . The issue

12:58

isn't always with the child

13:00

. It can be with us . This is our moment

13:02

to be what the Lord wants us

13:04

to be to adapt and help this

13:06

child adapt in their

13:09

personality and emolding that personality

13:11

. And we can't force them into

13:14

a particular personality . You're

13:17

not going to be able to take an Emma and

13:19

Emma in many ways is like our Jill . You're

13:22

not going to be able to force them to relax

13:24

and just go with the flow . That's not their

13:27

bent . They're the kind that get

13:29

up real early and I mean we homeschooled and Jill

13:31

would have got up at four in the morning if

13:33

we let her to start working on school

13:35

and have it all knocked out . And she had everything organized

13:38

and I'm like who is this child

13:40

? Where did she get this ? In

13:43

many ways it was awesome , but in another

13:45

way I was like I'm not getting up at four

13:47

. I'm not doing that with you . You're

13:50

going to have to stay in bed until a certain time . But

13:52

we had to respect her bent

13:55

and try to let that

13:57

work in her favor and

13:59

our favor . But at the same time

14:02

I'm not going to turn to Gray and say

14:04

, all right , gray , jill's getting up at four , you

14:06

need to do the same . That wasn't going

14:08

to work either , and

14:10

so recognize those blessings and curses

14:12

, but it's a full time job and it

14:14

was what's interesting . Also and I'm

14:16

sure Josh is seeing this right now those

14:20

personalities in your boys are going to change

14:22

as well and you're going to have to adapt

14:24

with it , especially when they

14:26

get up into the puberty age and then

14:28

start girls that start becoming part

14:31

of their lives . Okay , you're

14:33

always calling audibles , but

14:36

it's enjoyable nonetheless . It's

14:39

enjoyable nonetheless . Parenting is a great

14:41

joy .

14:41

Well , it's a big challenge as well . I

14:44

think about my boys , especially right now

14:46

, because we're talking about boys . There's so

14:48

much of me that I

14:50

see in them , but where

14:52

I get really hung up is

14:54

when I don't see me in them . It's

14:57

where I cannot relate to what they're

14:59

going after . And I

15:01

will say this I'm talking to you

15:03

guys . Both of you guys

15:06

have spouses , and if you are

15:08

not in a position where you have the

15:10

other person that's in that position , that's

15:13

in the trench with you , because , phil , you said this

15:15

is a full time job . No , it's

15:17

not . It's three or four full time

15:20

jobs , phil , a wild advocate

15:22

of it . It takes a village , but

15:24

it really does take a lot more people than just two parents

15:26

, because between Katie and I we

15:29

probably make one sane individual

15:31

, but there

15:33

are things that Katie sees that I don't . And

15:36

if you're somebody who's in a

15:38

oh I don't know single

15:40

parent situation , you

15:42

need to start recruiting the help of other people

15:44

because , as you say , this

15:46

is more than a full time job . It

15:49

takes a lot to basically oversee

15:51

the development of one

15:53

competent person , much less

15:56

create one man . Do you see what I'm saying

15:58

there ?

15:59

Oh , act absolutely . And I

16:01

will say this I'm glad you brought this up

16:03

. I can't imagine trying

16:06

to do this as a single parent . So

16:08

to all the single parents out there , especially

16:10

those that are godly parents , god

16:13

bless you . You have my great

16:15

adoration in praise and

16:17

I want to help you in every way that I

16:19

can . But I will say this although

16:22

I have Cheryl , and she is a

16:24

much better parent , actually , she's just much

16:26

better at everything to me , and that's

16:28

not a joke , that's just reality

16:31

. Yeah , but even though I have her

16:33

, we didn't rely

16:35

on just each other with

16:37

rearing our children . We're talking

16:39

about boys . So here's

16:42

, here's my life and

16:44

here's what I wanted to pass on to

16:46

Our kids in

16:49

my life . I just went back and listed all

16:51

the people who had major impacts on me

16:53

that my parents put in my life , yeah

16:56

, to help mold me and guide me . I

16:58

have my Papa John . I have

17:00

my dad , clear and foremost

17:02

. I have his voice with a wonderful dad . I

17:04

had my scout master James Harris

17:06

. I had coach David boss

17:09

, who pushed me and pushed

17:11

me and pushed me to wrestle , and

17:14

I was just getting totally destroyed all

17:16

season until I got into

17:18

the city tournament and I made it to the

17:20

finals and when I lost in the city finals

17:22

, that godly man walked out in the middle

17:25

of the ring and just hugged me and wouldn't

17:27

let me go . I still remember that

17:29

to this day , the impact

17:31

he had on my life . I had Glyn

17:33

Greg , who was always talking

17:35

to me at church . I had Greg buyers

17:38

, who was one of the college kids growing up who always

17:40

showed an interest in me . I had John Kilgore

17:42

, my camp director , and I remember being

17:44

inspired by the camp friends when

17:47

I came home from camp that I needed to kick

17:49

it up a notch . I had West Moss Busbur

17:52

, patrick sales and my friends from FC . I

17:54

mean you could just go on and on and on . And

17:57

I think , if we'll understand

17:59

his parents , our job

18:01

isn't always to do

18:03

all the work . If I can put my kids

18:05

in environment where others can

18:08

help me in that work , not

18:10

only will that take some load off my shoulders

18:12

but it'll also help

18:15

my children grow and develop

18:17

, and especially my son and

18:19

I will say this a very dear

18:21

friend of ours who just became

18:24

a part of our life a year and a half ago . Dan

18:26

Barker Passed away this

18:29

week when my son moved

18:31

to Birmingham and

18:33

was trying to decide where to go to church

18:35

, and Dan Barker had recently moved

18:37

to there to do personal work at

18:40

this stadium . Gray met

18:42

Dan , dan took

18:44

him in and Dan inspired

18:46

him because they had so much in common . They both

18:49

love basketball , they both love personal work . The

18:52

Dan became a major influence in

18:55

his life this past year and a half

18:57

and I just thank God every

18:59

day for men like Dan Barker who

19:02

inspire others , and

19:04

especially my children . You do something nice

19:06

for me . I thank you . You

19:08

do something nice for my children . I'm

19:10

indebted to you for the rest of my life . Right

19:13

, and to me that's

19:15

. That's one of the godly secrets that

19:17

God gives us . I

19:20

would say it does take a village if

19:23

you have the right village and

19:26

you put the right people in that village

19:28

to help , mentor and guide your children .

19:32

And that's that's to your point about . You

19:34

know our single parents

19:36

and in particularly , you know what we have at universities

19:38

. We've got more than a couple

19:40

of single mothers and

19:43

they're raising . They're raising sons

19:45

you know that their

19:47

mothers are great influences in

19:49

their lives . But what we

19:51

as the men of the congregation have to do is we

19:54

have to step in and help give

19:56

some guidance there as well and help nurture

19:59

those , those boys as well . Because

20:02

you know you go through your list and I'm just

20:04

thinking about the people that you know have made

20:06

such an impact on my sons . You know we have one

20:08

elder in particular , tommy Matthews , who

20:10

has just had a huge impact on my son's life . I

20:14

love the fact that my boys

20:16

love Mr Phil . I mean

20:18

, I may not like Mr Phil that much , but my boys

20:21

love Mr Phil and

20:23

you know they look forward to camp

20:25

for that reason and you know , if we

20:27

have an event and Phil's coming , well

20:29

then that's just the biggest thing in the world because Mr Phil is coming . I

20:34

try to , I try to hide the animosity . But

20:41

that point about the village , you know that's

20:43

that's what God gives us , that's

20:45

what God gives us in the church and

20:47

I'm thankful for those men who play the role in my life and

20:51

, like Phil is talking about those , those men who have taken

20:53

an interest in my sons .

20:57

In my opinion , boys more than girls have to model . They

21:02

look toward people who are modeling something

21:04

they don't do as well with instruction . My boys love to basically rebelled

21:06

instruction , but

21:11

when they see somebody older than them doing

21:13

something , they will usually copy and and ape what

21:16

they're doing . My girls are exactly the opposite . If

21:21

you tell them exactly what to do , they'll usually follow it to the

21:23

letter , but

21:26

often they are in in

21:28

. They are intentionally not modeling because

21:31

they want to be their own person and I think one of

21:33

the things if you're

21:35

a single parent , realize

21:39

that again . I would say this is probably

21:42

more individual than it is , than it breaks down by gender . I

21:46

think my boys are just people

21:48

that like to watch what's

21:50

going on around them , and my girls are

21:52

probably people who are , again , like you call and say it , phil More

21:54

rule followers . They like to know what the rule is

21:56

so they can follow the rule . But

22:01

if you're somebody who's in

22:03

a situation and let me be very clear about this

22:05

, it's often mothers I number one thank you , thank you

22:09

, thank you , thank you , thank you , thank

22:11

you , thank you , thank you . God bless

22:13

you in that endeavor . And number two

22:15

reach out , because

22:17

men and women are different and

22:19

men and women see things differently

22:22

. Take advantage of the people that are

22:24

in your congregations . Take advantage of

22:26

guys who are just expressing

22:28

an interest in your kids , because

22:30

there's a modeling in

22:32

my opinion , that is partially

22:34

gender that boys , in

22:37

my opinion , are trying wanting

22:39

to look up . That's why we

22:41

have Michael Jordan , that's why we have LeBron

22:43

James as and you know my girls

22:45

, they know the

22:48

singers , but they're not trying to model . They might

22:50

, they might want to get the same dress

22:52

or hairstyle , but other than that

22:55

, they're not trying to get the model

22:57

their lives after these people . My

22:59

boys are , though , and they won't say that do

23:01

you ? Do you agree with that ?

23:03

I'm gonna go ahead and confess here . Whenever it comes to

23:05

any discussion of the difference between

23:07

sons and daughters , I'm out because

23:10

I don't know , and

23:12

in fact , just last week , janna

23:17

, looking at an interaction I was having with a four

23:19

year old girl at church , said

23:22

immediately after interaction it's good we

23:24

didn't have daughters , because they would wrap

23:26

around their finger , which is probably

23:28

true . So I have to have to

23:30

turn all , all differences

23:32

between sons and daughters to you guys .

23:35

Well then this is all on you .

23:36

Phil . Well

23:39

, I can only speak for my two

23:41

kids in that regard , but that

23:43

would be appropriate for Jill

23:45

and Gray . Jill is truly

23:47

the rule follower of you . Can tell her exactly

23:50

what to do , but you can't be from it

23:52

. She doesn't . Like you've said , this is

23:54

, this is the way it is , if you've said

23:56

it . And Gray was just

23:58

so amazing . I

24:00

never had to put together a Christmas toy Because

24:03

I would have run half the fun for him . That

24:06

dude can sit down and he can follow

24:08

, he can see the instructions

24:10

. He knocks it out , and

24:12

I think that's also the way he learns

24:14

is he can see that and

24:16

grow to it . If you

24:18

would , let me just kind of get into sure

24:21

what I've noticed , though . I

24:23

know we don't want to talk about culture and

24:25

the failures of culture , but

24:28

we definitely have A

24:30

father crisis

24:32

in our world , and you can

24:34

always see that

24:36

there is going to be a great challenge

24:38

in the development of any child when

24:41

the father is absent or the father is

24:43

not being what God is called

24:45

him to be . There can be a lot of fathers

24:47

who are actually in the home who

24:50

are more detrimental to

24:52

the growth of a child than it would have

24:54

. They would just get out sometimes , but nonetheless

24:56

, we have a father crisis . What

24:59

that does is it puts our boys especially

25:02

the disadvantage to grow

25:04

, to see what God is called them

25:06

to be . Because I see

25:08

boys . I see

25:10

boys today in great need

25:12

of someone who will

25:15

hang out with them , who will

25:17

rough house with them so that they

25:19

can get out that aggression and play

25:21

with them , to be

25:23

adventurous with them

25:26

and challenge

25:28

them and be there through

25:30

the challenge to grow and develop

25:32

, whether it's mentally or

25:35

physically , emotionally

25:37

or socially . I think boys

25:39

find great

25:41

confidence when they can

25:43

win , when they can

25:45

overcome , when they can climb

25:48

that mountain , and they need somebody

25:50

in their life who's always going

25:52

to be putting that mountain in front of them and

25:55

either climbing it with them or helping

25:57

them achieve those things , because boys need

25:59

achievement . Yeah , and

26:01

that's one of the things that we definitely

26:03

try to do it camp , and

26:06

you can see the transformation in

26:08

these young men when they are put

26:11

to the challenge and we celebrate

26:13

them almost like Greek gods

26:15

when they overcome some great physical

26:17

challenge and do something . But you

26:19

can just see their countenance , even the way they

26:22

walk , change when

26:24

they've overcome something and

26:26

they've made it to the top and

26:28

our boys need that . I think God's

26:31

given men the need

26:33

to win , the

26:35

need to be adventurous

26:37

, and we need fathers who

26:39

are going to help them develop

26:41

that and use that in a way that glorifies

26:44

him and becomes of service to their

26:47

own families as they grow up .

26:48

Yeah , I saw that

26:51

with my oldest Phil's

26:54

camp illustration that that's where it was . He

26:57

got into this cabin where they started

26:59

wrestling his first year . He lost

27:01

his first match and I didn't even

27:03

know this , but for the next year he's doing

27:05

push ups and sit ups in his room every night . When

27:07

I find out , like what , I mean that's great , why

27:10

are you doing ? It's like I don't want to lose and

27:12

he didn't . He didn't win , but I mean he won his first

27:14

match the next year but he didn't go through and like

27:17

win the whole thing . But he is so proud of that and

27:19

that achievement and I

27:22

tell you on this discussion

27:24

, I think cause Phil's

27:26

absolutely right . There's a crisis of fatherhood

27:28

and I think what you even

27:31

see in popular culture is

27:33

because of that . There

27:35

are some voices that have come to the forefront that

27:39

are really getting a lot of attention . The

27:42

joke has been told and I

27:44

think it's somewhat accurate . If

27:46

you did , a Venn diagram of Jordan Peterson

27:49

and Andrew Tate followers is

27:51

a perfect circle and

27:53

the point was that

27:55

, well , those guys are both advocating

27:58

similar precepts

28:00

take responsibility , be a man . Andrew

28:05

Tate leans fully into the toxic

28:07

masculinity , but what Jordan

28:09

Peterson is not . But the core

28:12

message is in some way

28:14

the same and , of course

28:16

, that's what I've got to do with

28:18

with my sons is not just the yeah , we're gonna , we're gonna achieve , we're gonna

28:20

win , we're

28:24

gonna be responsible and we're gonna

28:26

take ownership , we're gonna put effort

28:29

in that . I sat down

28:31

the beginning of this past summer and said boys , one of

28:33

the main things I can ever get across

28:35

to you in life is try

28:37

, work hard and try . If you

28:39

just do that , that's

28:41

gonna mean a lot in your life . We

28:44

start when they're young . Okay , you

28:46

need to be responsible for the dog , you need

28:48

to be responsible for your room , but

28:50

the point is we're trying to raise

28:53

them so that , as they get older

28:55

, they're responsible for the bigger things

28:57

. They're responsible now for their choices

28:59

and entertainment . They're responsible for you

29:02

know how they're gonna act

29:04

toward us . That's that's what's

29:06

missing in so many

29:08

lives and that's the task

29:11

that I have in front of me is how

29:13

do I make them responsible ?

29:15

I think and rotate has been really

29:17

good at diagnosing a problem and is

29:19

given everyone the wrong solutions . I

29:22

am definitely somebody who is my

29:25

. My bias is definitely toward Jordan Peterson

29:28

. Everything he's written .

29:29

I tried reading one book and I was like I

29:32

can't .

29:34

But the thing about it is I

29:36

like I like the place that Jordan

29:38

Peterson goes with this , which is that idea of

29:40

adopting responsibility

29:42

, basically take the blessing

29:45

of having responsibility , and

29:47

I think especially for boys and I don't know

29:49

why this is true , but but I do think that it

29:51

is true . I think boys do

29:53

better when they adopt responsibility

29:55

. Jack a willing will talk , will

29:57

call talk about extreme

29:59

ownership . I will say this

30:02

I think Jack a willing goes a little

30:04

bit too far in that direction because some things

30:06

are not in your control . But the

30:08

things that I think that I would say is the

30:11

thing that I like about what Jack willing has to say

30:13

Is is that if

30:15

you treat everything as if it was

30:17

under your control , you will

30:19

be far more powerful and

30:22

and far better off than pretending

30:24

like everything is out of your control , because

30:27

then you're arguing for your own victim hood . And

30:29

I guess one of the things that I would say in this kind

30:31

of goes directly to one of the things I want to

30:33

talk about . You guys have already

30:36

invoked the term toxic

30:38

masculinity . I'm not interested

30:40

in in In taking

30:42

on all the things that

30:44

that society has said . This is what's

30:47

wrong with men I would

30:49

much rather address what

30:51

men need to do , right , but let's

30:53

go ahead and give it its do . What

30:55

is toxic masculinity

30:57

and how have men been dangerous

31:00

or have they been Unhelpful

31:03

in in society ? I'm ?

31:05

not as up on Andrew Tate

31:07

. I do know Listen

31:10

to a lot of his stuff .

31:12

Bill , you're the perfect person for Andrew .

31:14

Tate . I mean

31:16

, I know who he is , but

31:18

I actually have to confess I

31:20

probably listen more to Jordan Peterson and

31:23

I'm kind of drawn to his message on responsibility

31:26

and whatnot . But I , society's

31:28

toxic masculinity is

31:31

just like a shotgun

31:33

. It's all over the place . Yeah

31:35

, and the challenge is no longer

31:37

is dad

31:39

, the father defined ? I

31:42

know we kind of mock the fifties

31:44

Ozzie and Harriet , my

31:47

three sons and all those caricatures

31:50

that you saw of the men in

31:52

those days but one thing you have

31:54

to see even in society

31:56

there was a role , there

31:59

was a definition , there was an expectation

32:01

of fatherhood . That's

32:04

totally out the window now , which is

32:06

so sad . I would turn the

32:08

attention back to just

32:10

looking at scripture when

32:12

you listen to , like Solomon speaking

32:14

to his son and the proverbs my

32:17

son , listen to

32:19

me , listen to

32:21

me what you're seeing in the world

32:23

around you , and I think even in that day

32:25

and age they struggled with the

32:28

toxic masculinity . I think would

32:30

be fair and you see

32:32

that , especially when Israel's takes

32:35

a nosedive spiritually . But he's like

32:37

listen to me , don't

32:39

fall victim to the illusion

32:42

of what you're seeing in manhood

32:44

around you . This is manhood

32:46

that you seek wisdom

32:48

, that you seek

32:50

to surround yourself with godly people

32:53

that you seek to . First of

32:55

all , take accountability for yourself

32:57

so that you understand . This

33:00

path over here is a dangerous path

33:02

, like one of my favorite verses and

33:04

I share it with the kids at camp and this speaks

33:07

to that responsibility is

33:09

Proverbs 426 . Ponder

33:11

the path of your feet , then

33:14

all your ways will be sure . You

33:17

can take whatever path you want , but you better think

33:20

about where this path is going to go and

33:22

you're responsible . You're

33:24

responsible for the path that you take

33:26

, but there is a path that can

33:28

lead to righteousness , there is a path

33:30

that can lead to fulfillment , there is a path

33:33

that can lead to godly leadership

33:35

. And that's on you . That

33:38

is on you and

33:40

you get to choose that . You mentioned jocco

33:42

Willnick . I actually had gray

33:45

read and I encouraged all the young men at

33:47

church when we were in Gainesville

33:49

to read extreme ownership . You

33:51

need to read this , you need to understand

33:53

. It's all on you . And then we studied

33:55

from Ezekiel

33:57

, especially the proverb

34:00

of sour grapes . You know that's

34:02

not us . We don't

34:04

put the blame on anybody else . It's

34:07

now on you . And

34:09

and I think , if you want to just look

34:11

at what's toxic , toxic is

34:13

when our young men are

34:15

not taught that they're responsible

34:17

for all their own actions , for

34:19

all their own thoughts , for all their own

34:21

behaviors and For

34:24

all their own consequences . It

34:26

still comes back to you and

34:30

you . You need

34:32

to understand that one

34:34

thing that a man will always do is

34:37

take responsibility for his actions

34:39

or the environment he's in . He

34:42

may not been the one who caused all the problems

34:44

, but he can be the one that can help people

34:46

Fight through those consequences

34:49

. Be the man and step up and lead

34:52

.

34:53

Yeah , by the way , since I'm

34:55

the one that brought up Andrew Tate , let me just make

34:57

this clear . That is in no way

34:59

. If you've never

35:01

heard of the guy , please don't go look him up . What

35:03

an absolute tool and what an

35:05

absolute disgrace to

35:07

manhood . So that's that

35:09

. That was not why I brought him up . But

35:11

you know , phil , you brought up , you know we

35:14

think about the help father who is

35:16

portrayed in the 50s and you don't need to go back that far

35:18

. I mean , there's a few years

35:20

between us . But I remember

35:22

Thursday night , appointment

35:24

television in my house was the Cosby

35:27

show . Now , granted , that's got its own baggage

35:29

now , but if you just look at it , from

35:31

the way the father is portrayed

35:33

in that show , yeah , he's lovable , yeah , he's

35:35

goofy , but he's also

35:37

the father and and well , yeah

35:40

, what ? But yeah , yeah , competent

35:42

he's , he's a , he's a surgeon . But you

35:44

know what it's interesting about ? The

35:46

same time that show finishes

35:48

run Married with

35:50

children , becomes probably the most popular

35:53

television show on television . And

35:55

that's a show . When my parents called me watching it , they

35:57

grounded me for a month Because it's

35:59

the exact opposite message in so

36:01

many ways and that fathers an absolute

36:03

idiot . If we're being honest

36:06

, I don't know that man's ever

36:08

gotten Our

36:10

roles correct just on our own

36:12

. Because even if we go back

36:15

to okay , yeah , let's go back to , you

36:17

know , when the when the man was the man and he ruled

36:19

his , his castle , well

36:21

, that really could devolve into

36:23

Treating the wife , or

36:26

treating them , the mother , as second-class

36:28

. Well that's not scriptural ? No , when

36:30

God made man in the beginning , he made them male

36:32

and female . That that's from

36:34

the beginning . That's Genesis one . When

36:37

you look at what God wants in the home

36:39

, it's not this oh

36:41

, here's , here's the man and he's . He's great

36:44

and he's . You know , rules over all

36:46

and the wife just kind of takes whatever's

36:48

come . No , that's that's . That's not scriptural

36:50

either . What is scriptural

36:52

to what we've been saying is Leadership

36:55

is placed on you , responsibility

36:57

is placed on you . You're responsible

37:00

for your choice , your response , for the consequences , all

37:02

the things that Phil just went through . That's

37:04

what is biblical and what we need

37:07

to stress .

37:08

I Think the other thing that I would say about

37:10

that is and you guys are welcome to disagree

37:12

with this there are some

37:14

characteristics that that are uniquely men . We

37:18

generally , like Phil was talking about , we love competition

37:20

. I , every

37:23

guy I know , with the exception

37:25

of just a few of us , me included

37:27

probably has a sports team that

37:29

they're pulling for . They're not pulling for

37:31

that sports team to do okay , they're

37:34

pulling for that sports team to win , and

37:36

that that idea of competition

37:39

is something that we kind of live on , that

37:41

we thrive on . The competition

37:43

can be taken to an extreme . Guys

37:46

are also of this ilk where

37:48

the idea of I

37:50

don't know being having status there's

37:53

only one picture on the baseball team and

37:56

everybody wants to be the pitcher or the quarterback

37:58

or the most prestigious Position

38:01

in whatever sports team that you're in , and

38:03

it's okay to have that ambition , but

38:06

every guy knows there's only going to

38:08

be one and I don't resent

38:10

the guy who gets it , I just want it and the

38:13

. Again , that goes right back to competition . We

38:16

love competition and we generally

38:18

respect competitors . That's

38:21

not the same with women . Women

38:24

are different than than us in that and

38:26

I think one of the things that that Competition

38:29

can be taken to an extreme and

38:32

you need to avoid the extreme . But

38:35

by the same token , you

38:37

have to recognize that men just love

38:39

competition . Likewise

38:41

, guys like

38:44

being aggressive . That

38:47

has an extreme on that

38:49

end , which Aggression

38:52

that turns into violence . And

38:55

, by the way , my boys love

38:57

wrestling every once in a while . Is

38:59

that violent ? Yeah , to a certain

39:01

extent it is . Safety

39:04

in my family is not the number

39:06

one concern , because

39:08

some things are intrinsically unsafe and

39:10

I want my children to engage in it , because

39:13

safety means you don't know what the outcome is going to

39:15

be . If you knew what

39:18

the outcome was going to be , that's safe , but you don't grow in

39:20

safety , you

39:24

grow in discomfort and in risk-taking

39:26

, and that intrinsically means you

39:30

have to launch out , you have to choose , do

39:32

something different . Are there stupid risks ? Yes

39:36

, should you avoid those ? Yes

39:39

, but

39:41

and again , this is one and I got this

39:43

from Jordan Peterson women

39:45

are usually Really

39:47

good at raising young children

39:50

, because young children don't

39:52

understand what an unreasonable

39:55

risk is . When

39:59

they get older , they begin to understand what an unreasonable

40:01

risk is men

40:04

. There's

40:06

something that we call rough-and-tumble play , and

40:09

Usually it's the fathers that

40:11

introduce that to the children , and

40:13

usually at the objections

40:15

of their mothers . And

40:17

Children need rough-and-tumble

40:20

play so they

40:22

can learn what a reasonable risk is

40:24

and what an unreasonable risk is .

40:26

Oh yeah , actually this was so

40:28

evident with our kids every

40:30

night at bedtime . Jill

40:33

went to bed with a princess carry

40:35

, so she would stand on the end

40:37

of the couch and she would let herself fall

40:39

backwards and I would catch her and

40:42

carry her , like a princess to

40:44

bed , you know , and put her in bed

40:46

, as we said , our parents . Gray , on the other

40:48

hand , that was not the

40:50

way he's going to bed and Personally

40:53

, if he ever wanted it , I would just let him fall

40:55

. He would not get that . Yeah , he went to

40:57

bed with the bronking buck Right , that's

40:59

where he jumped on dad's back and

41:02

it was the bronking buck banging off the

41:04

walls all the way down

41:06

the hallway to his room . Mom

41:08

would get mad at us because pictures would come off

41:10

the wall sometimes , you know , but

41:12

it was . It was a totally different scenario

41:15

, and so we also , every

41:17

night before he went to bed , generally

41:20

, we played nerf hoot

41:22

in his room and we

41:24

did it a little different . There's

41:26

no rules , there's no calling

41:28

fouls , it's just whatever you

41:31

got to do to get it in the hoop . That's what you do

41:33

, and so it led to some bloody noses

41:35

, it led it to bumps and bruises . It

41:38

definitely led to a great disadvantage

41:40

to me when he realized I'm not going

41:42

for the ball anymore , I'll just go for dad's

41:44

head because he goes , he goes

41:46

and I know how to rule the situation

41:49

and it was a blast . But it was

41:51

just the idea that that

41:53

aggression , that competition is

41:55

there and we have to

41:57

mold that yes , in

42:00

a godly way To

42:02

use it well . I mean , the first time

42:04

your kids in a sport and he wants to win

42:06

real bad and loses , and you see that bad

42:08

sportsmanship come out which His

42:10

father knows very well

42:12

and it struggled with his entire life

42:15

. I see

42:17

it in him and I'm able to immediately

42:19

try to start molding that

42:21

Because I want him to be

42:23

competitive . He's now in

42:25

sales . That's a very competitive

42:27

job market and he

42:29

wants to be number one and that's exactly what

42:31

I want him to be . You know , you learn

42:34

to use those . How

42:36

would you say just God

42:38

given Characteristics

42:40

, but try to use them in a godly way . And so

42:42

we as men need to be mindful

42:44

of the blessing in the curse scenario

42:47

, even with that Aggression

42:50

and action . And so men

42:52

are more prone to have hobbies hunting

42:54

, fishing , golf , things of that

42:56

nature , which is all finding good

42:58

, but if it starts dominating

43:01

your life and taking you away from your wife

43:03

and kids , then it's bad . Same

43:06

thing with cheering for a sports team . I I'm

43:09

gonna command Josh . He's wearing this

43:12

Red Alabama

43:14

sweatshirt . I have become a big

43:16

fan of Nick Saban . I'm not

43:18

an Alabama fan . My wife went to

43:20

Auburn and if I don't say war eagle

43:22

, she doesn't feed me . But Nick

43:24

Saban . Nick Saban has

43:26

has learned the art

43:28

of motivation and doing

43:31

things the right way . And

43:33

and one of the things that is just stuck

43:35

with me is this Highly

43:40

motivated people do

43:43

not like unmotivated people

43:45

, and unmotivated

43:47

people and lower achievers don't

43:50

like highly motivated people

43:52

and high achievers . It's

43:55

not gonna work together and

43:58

you have to decide if you're gonna get on that

44:00

bus or you need to get off that

44:03

bus . And so when it comes

44:05

to our young men , we want them to be

44:07

high achievers , but

44:09

they have to recognize high achievers

44:12

are not gonna like low achievers . And

44:14

so this is that competition opportunity to

44:17

use it and use it well . And

44:20

if you're not gonna get on the bus of

44:22

high achievement , then get off . With

44:24

that comes an understanding

44:26

that not only is it on me , but

44:28

also I'm also on a team

44:31

. I'm not an island to

44:33

myself . God's given me

44:35

these wonderful personalities

44:38

to be aggressive , to be tough , to fight , to win

44:40

. But I'm also on

44:42

a team and that team

44:44

is my family , that team is God's people

44:46

, that team is those

44:48

who I'm in relationship with and

44:51

those are what I need to win first

44:53

and foremost . Those relationships and the

44:56

team concept me come second .

44:58

I really think it's interesting to

45:00

how different

45:02

endeavors allow

45:05

for competition

45:07

and growth . You go to

45:09

the team , and so my youngest son just

45:12

made his middle school flag football

45:14

team . Well , he's

45:17

an Auburn fan because , well

45:19

, for two reasons , my parents were Auburn fans , my

45:22

father was a veterinarian , he went to Auburn , and

45:24

so that's the first reason . The second reason is

45:26

it annoys me . So , that's why

45:28

my youngest son is an Auburn fan .

45:31

Man . I just became a huge fan of Ethan

45:33

, even more so . He

45:36

has shot up .

45:37

So he's already , though

45:40

, again just made his middle

45:42

school flag football team , but he's already determined

45:44

he will be the Auburn quarterback one day .

45:46

There you go .

45:47

Well , okay , that's great , but

45:50

, of course , what I'm trying to do is I'm trying

45:52

to bring him back down to earth and say son

45:54

, I don't know that you're gonna play quarterback ever

45:56

, right ? What you can do

45:58

is you can go out and do your best job , and

46:00

if that means you're on defense and you're

46:02

pulling flags off of the other team

46:05

, then you've helped the team . So

46:08

there's that of

46:10

working for a greater good . My

46:14

older son's a . He's in the band , and

46:16

so there's that part . He wants to do

46:18

his best , because if he does his

46:20

best , the band sounds

46:23

better , and so he's part of

46:25

a whole , but he's also one

46:27

that likes individual challenges

46:29

, and that's kind of something a transformation I made in

46:32

my life . I was a football

46:34

player . I went to the University

46:36

of Alabama . I hadn't gotten that out

46:38

of my system , so I played rugby for a year

46:40

. So that's a team sport that I do not recommend for

46:42

anybody . If you think football

46:44

is bad , rugby is infinitely worse , and

46:47

so when I got that out of my system , though , and

46:49

I started running , okay , and you can go

46:51

and you can enter a 5K , you can enter 10K and

46:54

you can try to win , but

46:56

that's not why I found satisfaction in running

46:58

If I did better

47:01

than I did the last time , if

47:04

I reached my potential

47:06

right . That's what I got out

47:08

of running . I was never going to

47:10

be the one who won the 5K or

47:12

won the 10K , but

47:15

I could beat my time from the last time

47:17

and that's what I found in my older son

47:19

too . He'll find a

47:21

challenge and he'll want to do it . Like we've

47:23

done two tough mutters . I have no interest

47:26

in doing a tough mutter , but he

47:28

wants to and he wants

47:30

to do it because it's a

47:32

challenge to him and

47:34

he wants to see if he can do better at

47:36

that . So I think we can find

47:38

all these things in life that

47:41

emphasize these same principles

47:44

of one . You're gonna have to be responsible

47:46

for your effort , you're gonna have to put the effort

47:48

in and in a team

47:50

setting . That effort is important

47:53

for everybody . But there's also

47:55

the individual motivation . You put the effort

47:57

in so that you can achieve what

47:59

is your utmost potential , and there's

48:02

spiritual ramifications for that as well . Yeah

48:04

.

48:05

Let me , can I piggyback on that just a little bit , josh , of

48:07

course that's an excellent point . With respect

48:09

to you have no desire to do

48:11

a tough mutter , but your son does . And

48:14

so what you do as a parent , especially

48:16

as a dad , you

48:18

do it . You do it for the sake

48:21

of your son . I mean , it's like the same way a dad

48:23

would set and dress up for a

48:25

tea party with his little girl and put on the

48:27

tea era and totally

48:29

go all in . Well , you need to have that

48:31

same kind of attitude with your son to

48:34

do the things that challenge

48:36

him and even if it's not

48:38

something you want to do , you do it for

48:40

his sake so that he can experience

48:43

that thrill of achievement

48:45

. I think that's what motivates

48:47

boys more than anything else is

48:49

that thrill of victory , the thrill of achievement

48:52

. And I know we

48:54

don't want to spend our time on video games

48:56

, but video games rob our

48:59

sons of true achievement

49:01

. I'm not saying they're all bad

49:03

and I think it's okay to play

49:05

in limited fashion , but

49:07

a boy especially needs to have physical

49:10

activity . He needs to have physical achievement

49:13

and we don't need to be using the

49:15

cop out of just letting them just go off to their

49:17

rooms and find that in some

49:19

kind of world that

49:22

it's not real . They need to experience

49:24

in real time action and physical activities

49:27

, whether it is banned , whether it

49:29

is a sports , whether it is

49:31

running or whatever , and

49:34

dads need to be a part of that . You

49:36

do that together with your

49:38

son , and that's where

49:40

it goes . I mean , for Gray

49:42

, he and I played golf until we

49:44

moved to Gainesville and so

49:47

he had no desire to play

49:49

anymore and I'm like , oh , come

49:51

on , this is awesome . No , I don't think

49:54

he decided he wanted to play basketball . Oh

49:56

, I'm terrible at basketball . So we

49:58

start playing all the time and he on the basketball

50:01

team . And then he got into physical fitness

50:03

, because that's what the guys did in Gainesville , and

50:05

Mark Lloyd Jr is a great influence in his

50:07

life , and so now he's into lifting and

50:09

so I change . I gotta change

50:12

because I want to do these things with my

50:14

son , and now that he's 25 , he's back

50:16

into golf . Woo , you know , but the

50:18

thing is you

50:21

need to be what

50:24

they need you to be , to

50:26

grow as men and

50:29

learn to develop as a man , and

50:31

part of that is the opportunity

50:34

to achieve something , to

50:36

win at something , to improve

50:38

at something that's being a man .

50:41

One of the things that I'm gonna say , phil , is I completely

50:43

agree that we do need to get behind , out from

50:45

behind screens , I think , one

50:47

of the things that every organization

50:50

that has an online presence . They

50:53

are basically incentivized by

50:55

having more and more of your attention , and

50:57

they will never willingly try to get

50:59

rid of for your attention or have less of your

51:01

attention . That is their motivation

51:03

Facebook , instagram , any

51:06

of the in the gaming platforms the

51:08

more you give your attention to them

51:10

, the more financial incentive they

51:12

have to keep you , and so I completely

51:14

agree with that . One of the things that I would say , though , was

51:17

one of my sons . What

51:19

I didn't recognize that was going on is he

51:21

was playing his PlayStation every

51:23

night with a bunch of boys

51:25

from church , and , honestly

51:27

, the game became background

51:30

to them , having conversations

51:32

online . Now they would not recognize this , but

51:35

a lot of the things that they were talking about in the

51:37

game system had more

51:39

to do with how they were growing up . They

51:42

were getting a lot of support from their peers

51:44

, and , granted

51:46

, that's the , in many ways , the blind

51:48

leading the blind , because they don't have answers

51:50

. They have more questions , and , at

51:53

some points , it just makes more sense for them

51:55

to be able to ask a stupid question

51:57

in a non-threatening environment , and

51:59

I think that's what's going on a lot there . That

52:01

said , some of these games I'm

52:04

thinking of the Call of Duty game , which is basically just

52:06

non-stop violence , but I

52:08

also understand boys

52:10

like violence , and I

52:12

was appreciative of the fact that

52:15

he was talking over what was going on

52:17

in high school with a bunch of other boys that he was going

52:20

to church with . Do I think

52:22

that there's definitely times

52:24

that that goes overboard ? Yes , when

52:26

he has no more muscles left , when he doesn't know

52:28

what the sun looks like , when

52:31

grass is a foreign object to him . I

52:34

completely agree . Everybody

52:37

, I think , would do better off if they would eventually

52:39

go outside , look at the sun and touch

52:41

grass , because I think

52:43

that grounds them in a real

52:45

world . But I also see that there

52:47

are advantages to it that I didn't understand

52:50

when they were doing it , when they were playing

52:52

games . That

52:54

said , realize that every

52:56

technology that you have has an upside and

52:59

a downside and you have to learn how to moderate

53:01

those technologies . You see what I'm saying .

53:03

Not that this is Phil's absolutely right the

53:05

physical competition . The physical

53:07

is certainly more important , but the

53:11

video games that I would play with my kids

53:13

there's a lot of Mario Kart , because I

53:15

used to be good at Mario Kart and guess what

53:18

? I never let my kids win . They

53:21

beat me all the time . Now when we

53:23

play but that was again

53:26

one of those hurdles Okay , dad's good at

53:28

this , I'm not as good at

53:30

this , so dad's not

53:32

going to just lay down

53:34

and let you win . When

53:36

you beat me , you beat me , and when you beat me

53:38

, okay , you've accomplished something . Same thing

53:40

with pool , same thing with ping pong

53:43

, whatever it is . I'm not just

53:45

going to let you win so that you can say , oh

53:47

, I won and I feel good about myself

53:49

. No , no , there's a challenge . I'm bigger , I'm

53:51

stronger , I've played this

53:53

more than you have . You get to

53:55

where you can beat me and then you have something to

53:57

be proud of . That's right .

53:59

Well , and Kenny , going back to your video

54:01

game analogy , it still goes back

54:03

to the community that you're with and

54:07

I concede , I concede

54:10

video games . You're a part of life now and

54:13

I certainly am not one to just

54:15

throw everything out the window and say it's

54:17

all bad . But it's going to go back to

54:19

your community and who's motivating you and

54:22

what I want our young men to realize . You're

54:25

going to become the

54:27

average or the product of

54:30

the five people or the people that you

54:32

hang out with the most . That's

54:34

who you're going to be and

54:37

that's what you will become , and

54:39

so you need to recognize

54:41

that . And it goes back to you know , you

54:43

got to surround yourself with

54:46

godly people and if you're

54:48

surrounding yourself with good people and you're playing a video

54:51

game for maybe an hour a day , or

54:53

you're sitting down with your friends and you all are able to

54:55

communicate , you know that way I

54:57

know Gray does that even now

54:59

with all his buddies from Florida College . They're all

55:01

scattered all over the nation and so one

55:03

of their ways to get together is they'll play

55:06

a game and they can communicate with

55:08

each other during that game . Well , I'm

55:10

definitely not going to dog on

55:12

that in any way . That's great

55:15

Cause . He's hanging around good people

55:17

. But he's also with people

55:19

who are high achievers , whether they're

55:21

in medical school right now , whether

55:24

they're management and construction companies

55:26

, whether they're working in

55:28

a business , you know . Whatever

55:31

they're all responsible individuals

55:33

, he's still with a good community .

55:35

We often try to appropriate the Bible to be

55:37

a scientific manual , a

55:39

history manual , a history book , a

55:42

philosophy book , all

55:44

these different things . And one of the things that I would say

55:46

is the Bible is not an instruction

55:48

manual on how to raise children . It

55:51

is basically a revelation of God to us

55:53

, in other words , talking about the character

55:56

of God . That said , there are some direct

55:58

applications that come from

56:00

understanding the character of God

56:02

and what it means to be a father to boys

56:05

. What parts of Christianity

56:07

need to be supplemented with street

56:09

smarts , and what parts of Christianity

56:11

do we need to start sacrificing

56:13

parts of ourselves so that

56:16

we're better at being dads

56:18

to boys ?

56:19

When I first heard this

56:21

question I was like man , what

56:24

do you exclude ? So

56:28

I just honed it down to one verse

56:30

, and it's not a complicated one , it's

56:32

just 1 Corinthians 13 . Now

56:36

abide these three faith , hope and love . And

56:38

I'm thinking , okay , what does that mean for

56:41

a son , a

56:43

man , and the first

56:45

with faith ? That means you've got

56:47

to learn to trust others . And

56:50

as much as we're looking at

56:52

achievement and doing our best

56:55

and being a man , you're

56:58

ultimately nothing without God . So

57:01

that's what he's got to know Faith

57:04

in God , faith in God's

57:06

people . That's gonna be essential for

57:09

making it through this life . Hope

57:11

, well , what God provides

57:14

is infinitely better . And

57:16

you look at again the problems

57:18

with masculinity and

57:20

even manhood and

57:22

how parents are even seeing their

57:26

kids , their sons , kind of they

57:28

lose them to , sometimes radical groups

57:30

. It's because they're

57:32

being told that here's

57:35

the solution for this society . You

57:39

buy into this political

57:41

party , you buy into this movement and

57:43

we're going to fix

57:45

things . No , they're

57:47

not . No one ever will . But

57:51

hope God's

57:54

providing something better . I don't

57:56

want my sons to be angry young men , because

57:58

I see way too many angry young

58:00

men . I see way too many angry old men

58:03

. I don't want that for them , and

58:05

what I see in the angry old and

58:08

young men is they just don't have any hope . They

58:10

don't think that God's gonna see

58:12

us through this and that God's providing something

58:14

better . So I've got to get Matt and , of course , to my sons

58:16

and then , of course , the others love and

58:20

let God define that of what

58:22

love is you know , love for

58:24

God and our fellow

58:26

man . Now where the street smarts come

58:29

in is how do you apply

58:31

those principles to

58:33

the particular circumstances

58:35

and cultural context in which we

58:38

live ? Now ? My oldest son

58:41

is in public school . We have based

58:43

where our kids go to school , on their

58:45

demeanor , on their character

58:49

, and not that one's better

58:51

than the other . Just we . You know public school

58:53

something he's handling okay . We've got

58:55

our younger son in a private school

58:59

, the one that Florida

59:01

College is associated with , and there's a reason

59:03

for that . So , but

59:05

our older son has faced things in

59:08

middle and high school that never

59:11

was even brought up in

59:14

my upbringing . He's

59:17

got some real challenges with you

59:19

know some of the people in his class and

59:21

their worldview and what they

59:23

buy into Faith

59:26

, open love . Do

59:29

you trust God ? Do

59:31

you trust the direction I'm trying to take

59:33

you ? Do you hope that

59:35

there's something better and

59:38

that that God's gonna see you through this

59:40

, and can you love even those

59:42

who are

59:44

very different or not trying to live the

59:46

way that you're trying to live ? But you can at least

59:48

think the best of them , hope the

59:50

best for them , try to serve

59:52

them in some way and maybe

59:54

make an impact on their life . That's

59:57

where the street smarts come in , at least . As

59:59

I'm thinking of the question , you may have had something else

1:00:01

in mind there .

1:00:02

Well , after listening to Josh's

1:00:04

answer , I don't like mine anymore

1:00:07

. This is definitely

1:00:09

better , but I will go ahead and go

1:00:12

with what I've got here instead of trying

1:00:14

to change on the fly what

1:00:17

jumped out to me when I thought of this ? I

1:00:19

know and I understand that the Bible

1:00:21

isn't specifically an instruction

1:00:24

manual to parents , but

1:00:27

in many ways it's just a manual not

1:00:29

only of life , but of our Father

1:00:32

Himself and of His

1:00:34

expectations and His love for us

1:00:36

. And the one thing that

1:00:39

we , Cheryl and I , try

1:00:41

to do , or try to do and still do

1:00:43

, with our kids now that they're older and

1:00:45

I think your verses and

1:00:47

your focus change as they

1:00:49

grow and develop now that they're adults

1:00:52

Our focus has been James

1:00:55

1 , 26 and 27

1:00:57

. And what

1:00:59

you find in there is not only a description

1:01:02

of true religion . You find a

1:01:04

description of what is a true godly person

1:01:07

. If anyone thinks

1:01:09

he's religious and does not bridle

1:01:11

his tongue , their

1:01:13

religion is useless . But pure

1:01:15

and undefiled religion before the Father is this

1:01:18

to visit orphans and widows in their

1:01:20

time of trouble and to keep oneself

1:01:22

unspotted from the world . And

1:01:24

so what you see there is just the

1:01:26

threefold responsibility

1:01:29

we all have in our life . We have a duty

1:01:31

to self , self-control . Learn

1:01:33

to bridle your tongue and it's not just the

1:01:36

tongue . How you use your body

1:01:38

, how you use your resources , how you use

1:01:40

your time , your energy , your money . You

1:01:42

know you control that . That's your duty

1:01:45

to self and you use the Spirit's

1:01:47

guidance in the Word and

1:01:49

in your life and in your heart to

1:01:51

become a person who is excelling

1:01:55

at self-control . You challenge

1:01:57

yourself physically , you grow in these

1:01:59

areas , so you have a duty to self

1:02:01

. The second thing you have a duty to others . You're

1:02:04

not an island to yourself and you

1:02:06

especially have a duty to

1:02:08

those who are helpless and in need

1:02:10

the orphan and the widow

1:02:13

your time and your money

1:02:15

. You're not just making money in your professions

1:02:17

now to pay your own bills . You're

1:02:19

doing it as the Lord instructs us , so that you'll

1:02:22

have something to give to others . And you

1:02:24

give to others your time , your energy . You

1:02:26

have a duty to others . And

1:02:28

then you have a duty to God that

1:02:31

you live a sanctified life that

1:02:33

is not consumed and

1:02:36

, you know , spotted by the world

1:02:38

, but you are sanctified

1:02:40

. You have a higher calling and

1:02:42

I think when we can help

1:02:45

our children see that that they have

1:02:47

a higher calling , they have

1:02:49

a higher purpose . I

1:02:51

think that gives them the motivation to

1:02:53

see and understand not just who

1:02:55

their father is , but who he's called them

1:02:58

to be , and ultimately that's what we're trying

1:03:00

to get into our kids' hearts . Your

1:03:02

father is God . I'm

1:03:04

just a steward of your soul .

1:03:06

I think one of the things that I would say and again , you guys are

1:03:08

welcome to disagree with this the

1:03:11

Bible is a series of

1:03:13

and

1:03:15

this sounds like it's reductive , and I'm not trying

1:03:17

to make it simpler than it is it's

1:03:20

a series of truisms

1:03:22

and things that actually will

1:03:24

guide your life , and they will be very good guides for

1:03:26

your life , but when you look

1:03:28

at what life looks like today

1:03:30

, the Bible has nothing to say about the Internet

1:03:32

. The Bible also

1:03:34

has nothing to say about online pornography , but

1:03:38

that does not mean that God's okay with that . It

1:03:41

also means that , as a father , you're going to have to interpret

1:03:43

some of these things for your children so they understand

1:03:46

what the Bible means by this

1:03:48

that these truisms , this

1:03:50

instruction , has to have application

1:03:53

put to it , and part of your job as a father

1:03:55

is to make these applications

1:03:57

stick . And , by the way

1:03:59

, one of the things that we've talked about the idea

1:04:02

of the addictive nature of online everything

1:04:04

. Now being able to go anywhere

1:04:06

without the availability of a screen is

1:04:08

something that , on the one hand , makes

1:04:10

me very happy because I don't get lost anymore

1:04:13

, because Google tells me where to go . I

1:04:15

am so bad with maps and I'm so

1:04:17

bad with navigation that I

1:04:19

have been so thrilled that

1:04:21

Google knows where I am and how

1:04:24

far I am from where I need to be . Thank

1:04:26

you , google . But by the same token

1:04:28

, the same thing that's in my pocket can

1:04:31

waste my time , can show me

1:04:33

images , and my son's images that

1:04:35

they do not need to be privy to Again

1:04:38

. I'm going back to that idea of pornography , because

1:04:41

I think it's one thing that children

1:04:43

, especially younger boys , don't

1:04:45

understand how dangerous that can

1:04:47

become , because it's something

1:04:50

that number one . They're

1:04:52

not exposed to it and then all of

1:04:56

a sudden they learn about

1:04:58

sex and then they immediately

1:05:00

have access to everything

1:05:02

that is wrong about sex and

1:05:05

I think that's a danger , especially for boys

1:05:07

. I think the danger is different for girls

1:05:10

. I think it is basically reputation

1:05:12

and status and basically

1:05:15

putting themselves in stories where

1:05:17

they are well

1:05:20

, I mean to say this one

1:05:22

way . I mean it's a romance novel

1:05:24

. They want to be basically the main

1:05:27

character in a romance novel , which

1:05:29

I think it's fine in some ways

1:05:31

, but in some ways that loses what

1:05:33

they want and what they aspire to . But for

1:05:35

boys it's different , because

1:05:37

boys usually go after instant

1:05:39

gratification , which , by

1:05:41

the way , I'm not against . I'm

1:05:43

not saying that I'm for pornography , but

1:05:45

I think one of the things in a good relationship

1:05:48

there's somebody that needs to be able to

1:05:50

learn how to set the right goal and there's

1:05:52

somebody that needs to be able to say

1:05:54

this is the journey , enjoy the journey , and

1:05:57

both of those things are important . I think men

1:05:59

generally basically say enjoy

1:06:01

the journey , and I think women are

1:06:03

usually better at saying this is where

1:06:05

we need to end up , and I

1:06:08

think you need both sides of that coin . You

1:06:10

need to appreciate where you are and

1:06:13

also appreciate where you're trying to go . But

1:06:15

when it comes to this , this idea of

1:06:18

boys are in especially

1:06:20

a dangerous spot , because instant gratification

1:06:23

is what we usually like . Pornography is

1:06:25

one of the things that can take them down a really

1:06:28

dark road . What advice would you give

1:06:30

for fathers ? What

1:06:32

advice would you give for those of us who are trying

1:06:35

to raise boys , who probably

1:06:37

don't recognize where this is headed

1:06:39

?

1:06:40

Something that I've resolved to

1:06:42

do , not only as a father , but as a preacher

1:06:44

, is we

1:06:46

want to be a principled people

1:06:48

, and I think in a lot

1:06:50

of these discussions whether it be pornography or

1:06:53

fornication or whatever we

1:06:55

want to talk about I've

1:06:57

been pretty heavy handed on that . Don't do this

1:06:59

, don't do this , don't do this . Okay

1:07:02

, and that's perfectly right

1:07:05

to say , yeah , don't do this

1:07:07

. This is not right in the eyes of God , but

1:07:10

you go to that passage in Hebrews

1:07:13

13 when

1:07:16

he talks about that God is going to

1:07:18

judge fornicators

1:07:21

and adulterers . The

1:07:24

first thing God says , though , is that marriage

1:07:26

is honorable and the

1:07:28

marriage bed is undefiled , that

1:07:32

the greater principle here isn't

1:07:34

don't engage

1:07:36

in sex before marriage or don't

1:07:38

look at pornography

1:07:41

. Those are principles . Those are things we ought

1:07:43

to take in life , but the greater principle

1:07:45

is there's something really really good about marriage

1:07:48

, and

1:07:50

why pornography

1:07:53

is so dangerous is because it

1:07:55

is perverting people's viewpoint

1:07:57

of what marriage is and what marriage can

1:08:00

be and should be . So what

1:08:03

I have to do first is

1:08:05

, before I just get to the don't

1:08:07

do this and don't go down this road , I

1:08:09

need to model and I need to instruct . Okay

1:08:12

, here's what's really good . Yeah

1:08:14

, here's why you don't want

1:08:16

to go down this path , because God

1:08:18

set the path over here that

1:08:21

, if you'll go down , this path is ultimately

1:08:24

going to be infinitely better than

1:08:26

this other one you were thinking about going down .

1:08:29

Right . I love the way Josh

1:08:31

has phrased

1:08:33

that and put that , because that is

1:08:35

something we try to do with the boys , especially

1:08:38

at camp , and I think this is something

1:08:40

parents have got to understand . Boys

1:08:43

are visual , men

1:08:45

are visual , and we need to recognize

1:08:48

that . Now , and I will say this we

1:08:50

get a lot of challenges sometimes

1:08:53

for our dress code at camp or

1:08:55

in other activities that

1:08:58

are church related , and I

1:09:00

just need the mamas to understand . I

1:09:02

have young men come to me and say Mr

1:09:04

Phil , the yoga pants are killing me

1:09:07

. Mr Phil , thank you so much for having

1:09:09

strict guidelines at camp . I need a week

1:09:11

where I don't have to worry about those

1:09:13

things and I get that , and that's one of the things

1:09:15

that we need to recognize as parents

1:09:18

, whether it's with our boys or our girls

1:09:20

, that God made

1:09:22

us visual creatures , and

1:09:25

so I think it's safe to assume

1:09:27

anybody listening that we

1:09:29

all understand pornography

1:09:31

, lusting those things . Those

1:09:34

are clear commands in

1:09:36

scripture . You need to be mindful

1:09:38

of that . That is a

1:09:41

path our young men can take , and

1:09:43

if we're giving a kid a cell phone without

1:09:46

boundaries and without our restrictions

1:09:48

, you're giving them pornography

1:09:51

. Don't think you're not . You have

1:09:53

put it in their hands , and

1:09:55

parents need to be wise to

1:09:57

that and we need to be mindful

1:09:59

that when we give our children these

1:10:01

tools , we're giving them a gateway

1:10:04

to these kind of visual

1:10:06

images and these kind of challenges . But

1:10:09

on the other hand , let me just build on

1:10:11

what Josh is saying . That's

1:10:14

a blessing , not always a curse

1:10:16

, that you're visual . What

1:10:18

you need to do is make your vision

1:10:20

what God

1:10:23

would want it to be , so that you desire

1:10:25

the godly woman

1:10:28

, so that the woman in Proverbs

1:10:30

31 , when you see her in

1:10:32

her service , when you see her in

1:10:34

her humility , when you see her in

1:10:37

her attitude , that you see

1:10:39

that and go oh my , that

1:10:41

is attractive , because

1:10:44

that's the woman who will

1:10:47

be able to fulfill you . And

1:10:49

that's not just in sexual

1:10:51

gratification or things

1:10:54

that we see with our

1:10:56

eyes from that point of

1:10:58

view , but also in what we see in

1:11:00

our relations with others , what we see when

1:11:02

our athletic desires and everything

1:11:04

else . We need to have our eyes fixed on

1:11:07

what God would want us to see . And here's

1:11:09

the way I think men can help their sons

1:11:11

do that when we're honest with our

1:11:14

boys about what challenges

1:11:16

us physically . What

1:11:19

I've got to be mindful of is a daddy

1:11:21

, of what I'm seeing and what I'm

1:11:23

focused on , and

1:11:25

I think one of the best things

1:11:27

we can show this to our kids is

1:11:30

when we

1:11:32

can help them see what is attractive

1:11:34

. I remember this is funny Gray and I were walking across

1:11:36

the campus he couldn't have been but like 12 years old and

1:11:38

we're walking across the UF campus going to a

1:11:40

basketball game and I can't remember where we had to park

1:11:43

, but we had to walk past some of the dorms and

1:11:45

these two girls went by us and

1:11:48

you would not have known

1:11:50

the difference in a street

1:11:52

walker , in a college student , when they walked

1:11:55

by us . And I remember it was one of those things where

1:11:57

he's real young and I'm like , oh , my

1:11:59

word , I know he saw that

1:12:01

and he

1:12:04

noticed it . I noticed it . We got by and I'm like

1:12:06

, okay , what do I say ? This is one of those teaching

1:12:09

moments , what do I say ? And I just remember saying so

1:12:12

, gray , you think they're going

1:12:14

to church and he goes . No way

1:12:16

, no

1:12:19

way . And we just laughed . I said yeah , yeah

1:12:21

, and we just went on to the game . Yeah

1:12:23

, but it was also

1:12:25

an opportunity for me to let

1:12:27

him know yeah , I saw it also , I

1:12:31

saw it also . So what

1:12:33

are we going to do with this ? And

1:12:35

boys are visual . We need to

1:12:37

be mindful of that . But let's help

1:12:40

them turn their heads and see what

1:12:42

is good .

1:12:44

And when they don't be , the

1:12:46

father that helps them . Because

1:12:49

I think one of the things that is

1:12:52

often a blind spot in many congregations is

1:12:54

that we assume nobody has this problem and almost

1:12:57

everybody does , and I

1:13:00

worry that sometimes this goes this

1:13:02

is what you should do , but we

1:13:04

don't talk about what happens when you cave

1:13:07

, that this is the problem that you

1:13:09

have , not the problem you shouldn't

1:13:11

have . You see what I'm saying .

1:13:13

Isn't that something you all done in university

1:13:15

? Don't you all have like a men's devotion

1:13:17

group ? Y'all have actually talked about this openly

1:13:19

and shared and discussed things

1:13:21

like this addictions or one of them .

1:13:23

Yeah , we try to take . The last year was the

1:13:26

first year , but we took some Saturdays

1:13:28

and did a men's

1:13:30

study . We called it ready to fight

1:13:32

and the point was you know , god's given

1:13:35

us the armor and the tools to fight what we're

1:13:37

struggling with . And

1:13:39

pornography was the

1:13:41

first subject we talked about and talked

1:13:44

about that at length . But

1:13:46

our aim is to do that again this

1:13:48

year .

1:13:49

Yeah , did you take your sons .

1:13:52

I took my oldest . Jared

1:13:54

was 13 at

1:13:56

the time . I took him Ethan

1:14:00

, you know , but that's also again to personality

1:14:05

. I've got a 14-year-old old man . I've

1:14:07

got a 11-year-old who sleeps

1:14:09

with 50 teddy bears , so

1:14:13

it's something that's . Those

1:14:15

are things that I yeah , I know that

1:14:17

Jared , I've got to make

1:14:19

sure he's prepared for this . Ethan's still

1:14:22

, you know , he's still

1:14:24

. He's still a kid .

1:14:26

Yeah , that's great . Well , and I appreciate

1:14:28

the , I appreciate the shepherds there

1:14:30

in the congregation for being mindful of that , and

1:14:32

I think that's part of raising our boys

1:14:34

that they see that and understand

1:14:37

that and that dad

1:14:39

is honest . Well , hey , these are my challenges too

1:14:41

. We can work on this together .

1:14:44

Yeah , and that's . I think that's

1:14:46

one of the struggles . I think one

1:14:48

of the things that we've done in churches often is

1:14:50

we've set up shame and guilt and

1:14:53

we often don't give them alleviation

1:14:55

from that shame and guilt . How do you fix that

1:14:57

? Because I think everybody has

1:14:59

had has stumbled in this area at some point .

1:15:02

Can you celebrate your victories ? That's

1:15:04

exactly . You celebrate the victories

1:15:06

when either men

1:15:08

overcome or they don't engage

1:15:11

, and or you . Just to

1:15:13

me , we need to celebrate marriage more . You

1:15:17

know we have an announcement

1:15:19

list where we'll announce everybody who's sick and

1:15:21

everything wrong with them . I think we should announce

1:15:23

every anniversary and anybody

1:15:25

who's been married over 30 years . There

1:15:28

should be just standing applause . You

1:15:30

know there's a couple that is

1:15:32

fighting the fight and doing it together

1:15:34

because that's what God has called us to be

1:15:36

, and I think we

1:15:38

need to do that in our young men's life . Celebrate

1:15:41

those victories when they achieve things spiritually

1:15:44

, emotionally , physically and mentally . You

1:15:46

celebrate those things when they're on a good path

1:15:48

. Yeah .

1:15:49

So many of our prayer

1:15:52

requests are for people who are experiencing

1:15:54

illness or going through something that's hard

1:15:56

, but we don't . We don't celebrate

1:15:58

very often and we don't celebrate very well sometimes

1:16:01

. Alright

1:16:03

, guys , what did I miss ?

1:16:05

Phil brought this into it a little

1:16:07

bit , but I'll just echo

1:16:09

that . You know we've talked about being

1:16:12

fathers to sons . Sons

1:16:15

need their mothers too . They

1:16:18

have to have both . I and

1:16:21

maybe it's because I've

1:16:23

forgotten a lot of my own failings

1:16:26

from when I was a kid , I don't know . But you know I can be

1:16:28

pretty hard on the

1:16:30

boys from time to time and Janna brings

1:16:32

the soft touch , the

1:16:35

compassion sometimes where it's

1:16:37

lacking on my part , and

1:16:39

they need that . And even you know

1:16:41

from God's word . You know

1:16:43

Phil mentioned the in the proverbs

1:16:45

about you know , son , listen to me

1:16:47

. But the wise men didn't say simply

1:16:50

listen to me , heed your

1:16:52

mother's instruction . You know it's

1:16:54

not . It's not just oh , here's your dad

1:16:56

, listen to him . Well , here's your mom

1:16:58

too , and you need to listen to

1:17:00

her . And if you listen to both

1:17:02

of us , chances are you get a

1:17:04

whole lot more of the full counsel of God

1:17:07

than you would from just one of us .

1:17:11

Yeah , and you haven't missed anything

1:17:13

, and I just appreciate Josh and his insight

1:17:16

so very much . The

1:17:18

only thing I think I would add is this Rearing

1:17:21

children is a challenge , but

1:17:24

, boy , it's also a joy . Cheryl

1:17:26

and I , for now , we've been truly

1:17:29

blessed with two kids , and they're

1:17:31

making their own decisions . Who they are now

1:17:33

has nothing to do with me . It's

1:17:35

what they're choosing to

1:17:37

become and do . There's

1:17:39

no greater joy in life . When your kids

1:17:42

are good , life is good

1:17:44

. Nothing else matters

1:17:47

. And I will

1:17:49

just say to anybody out there who's listening

1:17:52

if there's anything that I can do , especially

1:17:55

to help you or your children , especially

1:17:58

your kids younger and camp age

1:18:00

, let me know . I'd love to help

1:18:02

and I know Josh would too . Amen

1:18:05

, because there's no greater joy in life

1:18:07

than being able to

1:18:09

enjoy kids , and

1:18:13

we're going to love our kids regardless . And

1:18:15

I think one other thing that our kids always need

1:18:17

to know no

1:18:20

matter what you've done , no matter

1:18:22

where you've been , no matter

1:18:24

how bad you think things are , you

1:18:26

can always come home . I will

1:18:29

always love you , and love

1:18:31

you fiercely , regardless

1:18:33

.

1:18:34

I end on my podcast with

1:18:36

Be Good and Do Good . What's good about

1:18:38

raising boys ?

1:18:40

First , it's a lot of fun . We've

1:18:43

stated that Neither

1:18:46

of my sons are just like me , but

1:18:48

we do do a lot of things together With

1:18:51

Jared . We like a lot of the same

1:18:53

nerd stuff , you know .

1:18:54

Star Wars .

1:18:55

Harry Potter , you know all this kind of stuff . We

1:18:57

sit down and watch that and engage

1:19:00

in that . He likes physical challenges

1:19:02

, so that's just really

1:19:04

fun doing that with him . Ethan's my sports and

1:19:06

games kid . He loves sports

1:19:09

, he loves playing games and

1:19:11

just always doing that Even Indian things

1:19:13

that I don't necessarily care for

1:19:15

, but I wind up playing a game of Pokemon with him

1:19:17

just about every day .

1:19:19

And .

1:19:19

I don't know who any of the characters are

1:19:22

, but it can be a fairly fun

1:19:24

game to play and you know so

1:19:26

it's a lot of fun . But

1:19:28

the other thing I said a

1:19:31

couple hours ago now it seems like God

1:19:33

knew I needed to be challenged , and

1:19:37

my sons have provided that in

1:19:40

my life . They've

1:19:42

helped me grow a lot .

1:19:43

Yeah Well , I'll

1:19:46

just echo what Josh says . I tell

1:19:48

you Gray's just been a joy

1:19:50

and I've

1:19:53

learned a lot about myself in

1:19:56

rearing him and I've learned how I need to

1:19:58

adapt in many ways . And

1:20:00

we're at the point now where we're listening to

1:20:03

our children's advice . There's

1:20:05

nothing more humbling when your kids set you down

1:20:07

and say , all right , mom and dad , here's what we noticed

1:20:10

and here's what y'all got to work on

1:20:12

. And there's great comfort

1:20:15

in listening to your kids

1:20:17

at those times and go . You

1:20:19

know what ? I think they're right and that

1:20:24

is a joy . And Gray and

1:20:27

I are playing trips together and we're actually doing

1:20:29

a savage race together . But

1:20:31

there's nothing more enjoyable than when you

1:20:33

hear that your son has

1:20:35

given the table talk at

1:20:38

church or he's joined somebody

1:20:40

in a Bible study group or he's

1:20:42

initiated some gathering or something

1:20:44

. And it's

1:20:47

at that moment that you realize

1:20:49

this wasn't about me . This

1:20:53

wasn't about me at all and

1:20:56

I don't want my son to be like me

1:21:01

and I want him to

1:21:03

see and understand he wants to be like his

1:21:05

Lord , and when those things take place

1:21:07

there's just great joy in that and so I love

1:21:10

my son dearly and

1:21:12

so God is blessing me greatly .

1:21:14

Okay , all right , phil

1:21:16

, you put your foot into it . One

1:21:18

of the things you said was that you'd be

1:21:20

happy to help other people If somebody

1:21:22

would . And then you volunteered Josh for exactly

1:21:24

the same thing . If

1:21:26

somebody wanted to get ahold of you , how would they ? How

1:21:28

could they get ahold of you ?

1:21:30

They can reach me via email really

1:21:33

easy robertsonp at

1:21:36

floridacollegeedu . So

1:21:38

just shoot me an email . You can catch me through

1:21:40

the college real easy . And

1:21:43

or you could just call the college

1:21:45

, leave me a message , but

1:21:47

I would be happy to

1:21:50

share and just so you know , if you're reaching

1:21:52

out to me , you're really reaching out to Cheryl

1:21:54

. She's the brains in the operation

1:21:56

and so I will certainly

1:21:58

consult her , but I'd be more than happy

1:22:01

to try to help , or

1:22:03

, as I often see myself as

1:22:05

a first responder in situations , I

1:22:08

can give you initial advice but lead you

1:22:10

to somebody who can really help you even

1:22:12

more so .

1:22:14

Yeah same thing , email is really easy

1:22:16

, josh Creel at gmailcom

1:22:18

. Creel is with a , c and

1:22:23

all the things that Phil just said . I

1:22:26

don't know a lot of things . I'm

1:22:28

a pretty good listener and then I can generally

1:22:30

find somebody that knows what you're , what

1:22:32

you're dealing with , and try to lead you to that person

1:22:35

.

1:22:35

All right , guys , thanks for this

1:22:37

. I really appreciate it . Both of you guys mean

1:22:40

a lot to me . Phil , you

1:22:42

have taken care of my kids at camp for far

1:22:44

too many years , and my kids say

1:22:46

nothing but good things about you . I've tried

1:22:48

to counter every one of the things that they say good about

1:22:51

you , because I know you're better than that , josh

1:22:53

. You've become a very good friend and I appreciate what

1:22:55

you're doing . I'll go ahead and tell you I'm glad

1:22:57

that I'm going to be there to help your boys get

1:23:00

over your parenting . So I mean , I

1:23:03

think you've got two very , very good young men

1:23:05

. So anyway , thank you very much for

1:23:07

doing this , guys .

1:23:09

No problem , kenny , thank you . Thanks , kenny .

1:23:13

As I was editing this conversation

1:23:15

, I realized that there was a lot

1:23:17

of overlap between how you raise boys and girls

1:23:20

. That said , I think especially

1:23:22

Phil does a really nice job of talking

1:23:24

about how he treated his daughter versus

1:23:27

how he treated his son . Scooping

1:23:30

up his daughter to put her to bed as a

1:23:32

princess sounds very familiar

1:23:34

to me , and being the bucking bronco

1:23:36

for his son yeah

1:23:38

, that's been my experience too . I

1:23:41

think one of the things that I appreciate is

1:23:43

my sons and daughters share

1:23:45

a lot of the same similarities , but

1:23:48

boys love

1:23:50

competition and my

1:23:52

girls love to work together

1:23:54

. That's not always true , but

1:23:57

I do think in general . If

1:23:59

I think somebody needs to work

1:24:01

together , I'm probably approaching my girls first

1:24:03

, and if I want to try to

1:24:06

inspire them to compete well

1:24:08

, I think that's where my boys naturally

1:24:11

fall in line . In

1:24:13

some ways , I worry about boys . I

1:24:15

worry about them finding a direction

1:24:18

in life , but I also worry

1:24:20

about my daughters , just in different

1:24:22

ways . When it comes to wishes

1:24:24

for my kids , I

1:24:26

want them both to do well . I

1:24:28

don't want one to fail and the

1:24:30

other to succeed . I want

1:24:33

them to be the heads of families

1:24:35

where they are doing the very

1:24:37

best they can with what they

1:24:39

have . I also want them

1:24:41

to be in a relationship with God

1:24:44

. That matters . Phil

1:24:46

, josh , thanks for

1:24:48

talking to me about this . You guys

1:24:50

are good guys . You're good dads . I

1:24:52

appreciate giving a little bit

1:24:54

of your insight into how I

1:24:57

might be able to raise my own boys . As

1:24:59

for the good thing I'm thinking about , that

1:25:01

university is starting up its

1:25:04

semester within the next few

1:25:06

days and I'm looking forward to

1:25:08

it . Yes , it has been a hard row

1:25:10

for oh , I don't know less year

1:25:12

, year and a half , but I still

1:25:14

love seeing students and

1:25:17

this is still a job that I think is both

1:25:19

important and makes a difference

1:25:21

and a critical point in their lives

1:25:24

. I'm glad God has given me

1:25:26

this job . I see this as

1:25:28

more than just a way to make an income

1:25:30

, but also make a difference

1:25:32

. So until next time

1:25:34

, let's be good and do good .