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In this episode of Balancing the Christian Life , we talk

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about God running after us . Welcome

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to Balancing the Christian Life . I'm Dr Kenny Ambrie

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. Join me as we discover how to be better Christians

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and people in the digital age . So

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what does it mean to be pursued by God

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? Specifically , what does

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it mean that God is coming after us ? I

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don't think that's an ominous way to think about God

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, but I do think it is a way that

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God is interested in his children

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. He wants us . He doesn't need

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us . He wants us . It's

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a beautiful thought and there's a song that

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goes along with it and , not surprisingly

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, my music-loving friend , Keith Stoneheart

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, was the one who introduced it to us . I

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say us because he has been at

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my congregation doing a teen

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weekend and I thought he did a great

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job . So I took advantage

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of the fact that Keith was in town and

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sat down with him to have a conversation

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. I didn't write any questions

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ahead of time on this . I just wanted to talk to

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Keith about what it means to

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be pursued by God and

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how we can be better followers of him . That

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Sunday morning , Keith preached on

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God running after us . So

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, Keith , let's just start there . What

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does it mean that God is running after us

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.

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I take that line from the song the

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Goodness of God . The first time I heard that song

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, in that particular part

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the bridge in that song , where it says His goodness is running

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after me I can think about all the times where

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I ran from God

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and he used someone to chase after

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me , whether it was literally , like physically

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, or it was just the idea

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of God that I could not run . There's

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22 years of being a Christian

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to reflect on in that , and

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then there's the 28 years before that

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. I can look back on my life and

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see that every turn in my life God

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was good to me . Even in the worst

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of circumstances and some

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of the hardest times in my life , there was always

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a gleam of hope that reminded

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me oh , there

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he was , there he was .

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You're starting to weave some of your own story into that . I

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recognize a lot of your story because I've heard

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it before and I gotta tell you I've

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talked to a lot of people . At this point , your story

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is one of those stories that just sticks with me and

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I think it's one of those reasons that I've always

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felt very close to you , keith , because I think you're

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somebody who boy . Your journey

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is not my journey , but it's one that

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I recognize and I

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admire a lot . Let

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me ask you this what

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do you think it means that God is running after

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us ?

2:42

From the beginning , if we go back

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to Genesis even

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, that he would come to the garden to

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be with his creation . He wanted

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that communion

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with his creation to come and to walk in

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the cool of the day , as Genesis tells us . I

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don't think that's ever stopped . We

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sometimes read that Genesis account . We think , okay

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, this is when God left . He

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never left right , he's

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still here and what has

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happened is that sin has

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created a separation between us and him

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. We think things

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like Isaiah 55 , 8

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and 9 , where we say his thoughts

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are higher than our thoughts and his ways are higher than our

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ways and he must be the God of

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the skies . He's the God of the heavens

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, the outer space . He's that far

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from me . Whenever I was in the throes of addiction

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and

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wanting to get sober and I can remember

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literally just nights

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before my brother-in-law came to talk to me I can

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remember being in my bathroom

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floor crying

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out maybe not necessarily to

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God , but I think I was looking

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for answers , for hope . So he's

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not just the God of the skies , he's the God of the

3:54

bathroom floor . We sometimes

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think he's so far from us , but if

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we read the first seven verses of Isaiah 55

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, the first thing he says is come all who

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thirst and hunger , and

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I think that we miss that aspect of

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it . We get it in our minds that he's

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so far from us that he left the earth once Adam

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and Eve sinned never to return

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again . But we know that he came back in Christ and we

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know that he is with us always

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. Though we can't see him

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, we can see his goodness and we can feel it .

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We have been so good at sinning for so

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long , you'd think God would get used to

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that , don't you ? You'd

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think ?

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But I'm so thankful that he doesn't . Why

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? Because he doesn't

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give

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up on us . When I hear that song and

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you know , all my life you've

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been faithful , all my life you've

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been so , so good Just the way that song

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is worded , those aren't what this

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is going to sound terrible . So bear with me , those

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aren't churchy words . Those

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aren't churchy words . Those aren't phrases

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that we use sometimes . I think Christians

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have their own language , sometimes that we

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say things that only we can relate to , that

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the average person doesn't relate to . God

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, guard and direct us , if it be thy will , until the next

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appointed time , Be with the speaker of the hour . He

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may have a ready recollection , whatever that is , but

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I think that when you listen to

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those lyrics , it says all my life you've been faithful , all

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my life you've been so good . And I think it's because

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he won't give up . How

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many times do you let

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someone spit in your face

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? Because when we sin , that's what we do

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. And Jesus told Peter 70

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times seven . Yeah , as

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much as it takes , until you see

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me , see my goodness .

5:43

The thing about God running after us and it's a

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beautiful image . I really like that image

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. You made the allusion to the prodigal

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son , the father in the prodigal son story

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, which I think is the perfect allusion , I

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think , about the father who's running down the road when

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he sees his son . That is a great

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image . But the son

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had to come home before he had that

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kind of relationship and was able to reestablish

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that relationship . There was a standard

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that God was not willing to

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relax and I gotta tell you that's tough

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, isn't it ? You know what I love about that story

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Tell me .

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And it is tough . But when you look at that story

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, there's a moment where the son comes

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to himself . The scripture says right , that's repentance

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. Right . Then

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he is oh , this is horrible , I

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would be better off as a slave in my dad's house

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. I want to go home . Yeah

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, he wants to turn and

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go home , right . And now what we notice in the story

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is that when he left , the

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father didn't run after him . Right , the

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father stayed where he was . It's only when

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the son is coming home that the father

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runs out to meet him . And so when

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we say , god will meet you where you are , that's true , god

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will meet you where you are , but you first have to come

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. You first have

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to come . And then he comes . He

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stands there looking , as

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that passage talks about , looking afar

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off , right , right . But

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when he sees us , repentance

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has taken place and the forgiveness

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has already transpired , and so he runs out

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to greet his son and all

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that matters . I don't care

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where you've been , I don't care what you've done , you're home . There's

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been so many preacher arguments

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about the point of the prodigal son

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and , yeah , we can put all

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those parables together the lost

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coin and the lost sheep and the lost son

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, and you can make the greater picture

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and the point there . But , man , what really

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drives it home is that he just came home

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and that what it's about it

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is for me .

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It is for me , too . One of the things that I would

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say , though , and I think you would agree with this God

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never comes someplace where he's not invited . That's

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right . So I think the important parts of that story

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is God didn't allow

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him to stay in the pig

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pen . That's right . Why not ? Wouldn't

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it been easier if God just went to the

7:57

pig pen and said you know what , I'm

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gonna take care of you here . I know you've made a mess of your

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life . I yeah , okay , I can see

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what you're doing . It's not right

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, but I'll

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make sure this gets cleaned up .

8:10

Yeah , wouldn't that be nice , Would

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it ? I often get asked I

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talked a little bit about this in my lesson

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but how could a good God Let

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people Go to hell ? Yeah

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, if you flip that question

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, how

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would a good God let bad people come to heaven ? What

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kind of God would he be then ? What

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so ? What's ? What sort of justice is

8:35

there in that that

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there are no rules , there are

8:39

no consequences , because

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then there would be no good Right

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for good to exist . For good

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to exist , bad

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has to be a possibility , yeah

8:50

, and available . And for him

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to come and say hey , listen , there's no consequence

8:54

here , you just come on back . I

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don't know . That's a just God .

8:58

I that sounds a lot

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like tough love to me , keith .

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I think you're right . I think I think there's an

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aspect there in which tough love comes into

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play . Yeah , that that is something that

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I think . A

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note here that that tough love was first

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Brought

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to the public , I , so to speak

9:18

, through a guy named Bill Millican . Bill

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wrote a book by the same title and Bill's

9:23

whole approach was going

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to inner city kids To give

9:27

them chances that they might not ordinarily

9:29

get . And it was this tough love approach of just saying

9:32

the hard things , yeah , to help

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get them on the right track , and we

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exercise that sometimes as brothers

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in Christ . If I was participating

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in something that Was

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not of a righteous nature , what

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kind of friend would you be to just let me and

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I think that sometimes we don't see it that way

9:54

. We're like , hey , who are you to come talk to me ? I'm someone

9:56

who loves you , and sometimes

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the hard things need to be said and

10:00

those hard concepts have to be

10:02

put out and I don't have to understand it . I Think

10:06

sometimes that's where we are as

10:08

a culture now , where people really

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want to understand everything and there's just some things that

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we can't .

10:13

It's one thing when a perfect God with

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a perfect law Says that you

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have imperfectly followed his law , and

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of course you're , at the

10:22

end of the day , you're gonna have to slap your forehead and say

10:25

, boy , I've been an idiot . This is

10:27

stupid . I cannot believe I've been

10:29

such an idiot . My

10:31

problem is when I , when I'm doing the same thing with

10:33

my kids , I Can be an

10:35

idiot by enforcing some house

10:37

rules as well . Yeah , how do I

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know when it's truly tough Love

10:42

and not just being a bullheaded

10:44

idiot ?

10:48

I don't know that I have a perfect answer for that because

10:50

there's so many Aspects

10:53

of nuance . Yeah with it . If you

10:55

look at Proverbs 27 , verse 6

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, it tells us that faithful are the wounds

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of a friend yes and deceitful are the kisses

11:02

of an enemy . Faithful

11:06

of a wounds are the wounds of a friend . The

11:10

reason I wrestle with that and

11:12

understanding that to be the beginning of tough love

11:14

, is that it's going to hurt

11:16

me To some degree

11:19

to say these things to you

11:21

, that I'm not saying these things with

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a smile on my face , and I think

11:25

sometimes we underestimate how

11:28

much love it requires to go

11:30

to someone and say , hey

11:32

, listen , I'm worried about you , mm-hmm , and

11:34

this is why I'm worried about you

11:36

. I'm worried about what you're doing , I'm worried about the consequences

11:39

it's gonna have , and I don't want to see you in trouble

11:41

Knowing that they very well may

11:43

get upset with us . Yeah , they may reject

11:45

what it is that they're saying . They may say they

11:47

never want to talk to us again because they don't feel like we're

11:49

being a good friend . But a good friend won't let

11:51

you willingly make

11:53

mistakes like that , and it requires

11:56

an immense amount of courage . That

11:58

courage is fueled by love , and

12:00

so I think sometimes we underestimate just

12:03

how much it takes for someone

12:05

to come and correct us .

12:07

I'd say this as well sometimes the

12:09

least loving thing you can do is

12:11

let somebody do the thing they want

12:13

to do , because they want to do it . Yeah

12:15

and that's a it's

12:17

an easier thing to do , that's for sure . Yeah

12:20

. And there's also that sense

12:22

in which and again , I didn't anticipate

12:24

that that we'd just be going into the prodigal son all

12:26

over yeah , but the

12:29

father let's him

12:31

make his mistakes yeah , because

12:33

he understands his son is immature

12:35

Apparently . There's some lessons

12:37

he's going to have to learn firsthand by

12:40

making those mistakes . That's right . I

12:42

Think sometimes

12:45

in my own house

12:47

and I'll just talk about Fighting

12:50

with Katie that

12:53

sometimes when I fight with Katie , I'm fighting

12:55

to win . Sometimes

12:57

I'm just being an idiot and

12:59

I just want to make her eat

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, grow , yeah , and

13:03

I , I guess for me and

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see if this resonates with you at all . If

13:08

I'm okay , being

13:11

proved wrong , then maybe this

13:13

is the right fight to have . Does

13:15

that make sense ? Makes total sense , okay

13:17

. Do you ever do anything like that ?

13:21

Only you , kenny , sorry , unfortunately

13:25

, or fortunately , depending on how you look at it . Yeah , there

13:27

are so many times where you

13:30

know again , marriage is one of

13:32

those nuanced things also that has

13:34

its own dynamics and ups

13:36

and downs and has a

13:38

life of its own , and

13:41

I think that it's . I know that , particularly in my

13:43

marriage , kelly

13:46

and I both get in a place sometimes where we just want

13:48

to be the one who wins the argument , and

13:51

so then we're fighting out of tenacity , we're

13:53

fighting just to see who's

13:56

got more determination in

13:58

this particular thing . Sometimes

14:01

I don't have the energy for it and I just let her win Right

14:03

, even if I know I'm right . But most

14:05

of the time when we're if it's a serious issue

14:07

and we find ourselves there

14:09

, I

14:12

can see the love that

14:14

she's trying to show me . I

14:16

can see her trying to win me over

14:18

to reasonable , logical

14:20

thought as opposed to my emotional reaction

14:23

to something , and

14:26

I can see also how patient

14:29

she's being in that

14:31

, because her eyes say one

14:33

thing but her mouth says another . Yeah , and

14:36

it's usually in those moments that I'm won over , because

14:38

she said something hard for me to hear , and

14:42

I've heard it , not

14:44

because of anything she said , but because of what

14:46

she communicated through her eyes

14:48

. You know that there is there is a lot

14:50

of restraint , that she's not going to lash

14:52

back out at me because I've

14:54

heard her feelings in response , but she's she's

14:57

long suffering with me

14:59

. That's usually the

15:01

times when it hits me and

15:03

I'm happy to be wrong

15:05

in those moments .

15:08

I understand that . Do

15:10

you think God does that to us sometimes

15:12

?

15:16

I would like to say no

15:19

, but I

15:21

can't . I think sometimes

15:23

, like the prodigal son , god lets us

15:25

go . When you look at Romans

15:28

and it says that he gave

15:30

them up to a debased mind , god

15:33

let them have their way . He let them

15:35

, as I like to refer to the

15:37

hot stove , he let them touch the stove

15:40

. He let them learn that lesson that way

15:42

, because sometimes those lessons and the

15:44

scars they leave us are the reminders that we need

15:46

. The stove is hot

15:48

, stupid , don't touch it . It

15:50

would have been such an easier lesson to

15:52

learn had I just listened . But

15:56

I think sometimes and I think this goes for most

15:58

human beings is that we need to touch it . And

16:02

so God , in his wisdom

16:04

, lets us go . Also

16:06

in his wisdom , thankfully , in his grace , he

16:08

lets us come back . That's

16:11

right .

16:13

I worry sometimes that you've

16:16

raised children as well . I have too and

16:19

sometimes it's important that you let your kid

16:21

try the ramp with the bicycle

16:24

that you know is going to fall over and

16:26

you know they're going to hurt themselves , you know they're going

16:28

to skin their knee and

16:30

you tell them that You're

16:32

an idiot if you do that , and then you watch them go

16:34

be an idiot and then you watch the consequence

16:37

of it . The prodigal

16:40

son says when that happens , wait

16:42

for them to come home . In

16:44

other words , that again seems like to

16:46

be some tough love

16:48

.

16:49

I know , as parents , our tendency would be

16:51

to okay , I'm going to let you do this

16:53

, but when you crash , I'm going to come running , I'm

16:55

going to scoop you up and I'm going to bring you into

16:58

safety . And that's not what happens in

17:00

the prodigal son . He lets him

17:02

skin himself up and stay there

17:04

until he gets

17:06

up and brings himself home .

17:10

When do you know you've got the right standard ? When

17:12

do you know that the standard is correct

17:14

? And again , you're not just fighting to fight , but

17:16

you're fighting because there's a principle at stake

17:18

.

17:20

I don't know that this is true for everyone , but I know for me

17:22

it's usually when I'm uncomfortable , you

17:25

know , like my , my comfortability says

17:27

this is the right thing to do

17:29

. But

17:31

what I'm , but what I'm doing is is is I'm ? I'm

17:33

trying to take away the tension

17:35

of the moment . It's those , it's

17:37

, it's that tension that makes us uncomfortable . Right

17:39

, when I see my kid hurt , I

17:42

want to stop the hurt . Yeah , what

17:45

I'm able to see sometimes is that he needs to feel that

17:47

, or she needs to feel that she

17:49

needs this pain , or he needs this pain

17:51

, or they won't learn the lesson

17:54

. And so , as a father

17:56

, it feels wrong . It

17:58

feels wrong not to run out . But

18:01

also as a spiritual leader in my

18:03

home , I have to let them learn the lesson . Right

18:06

, they need to feel the burn of that , so

18:08

to speak .

18:08

But that just does not seem like it's using grace

18:11

at all . It sounds like what you're doing is you're

18:13

making grace conditional .

18:16

And that's what I thought for a long time .

18:18

Yeah .

18:19

Until I've really come around on my thoughts on grace , that

18:21

there's nothing

18:23

that I do to earn grace ? No , nothing

18:25

. And I think that we thought that for a long time . I

18:28

think that we always talk about this balance between

18:30

grace and works . There's

18:32

no such thing , no , nor do I want

18:35

there to be . I don't want there to be some

18:37

sort of scale where if

18:40

I do enough good , then God will give me grace . I'm

18:42

getting that somehow . There is creational

18:45

grace , and what I mean by that is

18:47

that the fact that we live and breathe is

18:50

the grace of God , and that's for every

18:52

human being , not just for Christians . And

18:55

so there's an aspect of grace that's

18:57

just exist . It

18:59

just exists because of who

19:01

God is and his goodness . But then

19:03

there's the grace that we access by faith

19:05

, which does require me to do something

19:08

Right . To receive

19:10

the grace of God as a baptized

19:13

believer , I have to first

19:15

be baptized . To come to God

19:18

in repentance and receive

19:20

the grace that will cover me for my sins

19:22

, I have to

19:24

repent , and

19:26

so there are qualifications for it . The

19:28

grace is ever present , it never

19:31

leaves . It just doesn't

19:33

. I don't receive it arbitrarily

19:37

. God just doesn't dole out salvation

19:39

grace . So if there's creational

19:41

grace , there also is a salvation

19:44

grace , right , and that is a different

19:46

aspect of it . It's a big topic

19:48

, right , and I think that sometimes

19:51

we see it through a linear lens . And it's so

19:53

much bigger than that that every human being has

19:55

grace because they live and breathe , but

19:57

those of the household of God receive

20:00

salvation , which is grace .

20:02

Unpack that . What does it mean to be in the household

20:04

of God ?

20:09

We know that God made provision

20:11

for us

20:14

before the garden right . George

20:17

Peter 1 , 20 tells us that before

20:19

the foundations of the world this

20:21

plan was ultimately in place

20:24

and that Jesus was made manifest

20:26

in these last days . I'm

20:28

paraphrasing but and

20:31

so from the beginning of time , there

20:33

was a conversation somewhere

20:35

in eternity based

20:37

on that passage and another passage

20:40

in Matthew that talks about it . But

20:42

there was a conversation between

20:44

the three that make God that

20:47

said okay , what happens if we create

20:49

them and

20:51

they leave or they sin ? What

20:53

are we going to do about that ? And in that conversation

20:55

there's a decision that's made where

20:58

the son of that Godhead

21:01

said I'll go and die . And

21:05

I don't understand it . I

21:07

get it , I get the

21:09

nuance of it , but I don't mean I can't

21:12

get my head around the fact that

21:14

he was willing to do this

21:16

before we were ever created . So

21:18

before there was ever a center

21:21

, there was a savior . And

21:25

so when I think about grace

21:28

in that aspect , in the fact that

21:30

there's a salvational grace , I'm

21:37

trying to think of the right way to word this . But how could

21:39

we , how else could we access

21:42

it if not by condition ?

21:46

I think it has to be , if you agree with this , because

21:48

the way I've always thought about it is this God

21:51

plays favorites , and the one

21:53

that he plays favorites with is

21:55

people that are in his family . Just

21:58

like I play favorites , if you're in my

22:00

family , I'm going to my

22:03

sons and daughters get

22:05

preferential treatment and you expect that

22:07

God

22:10

has told us that he is going to play favorites

22:12

and that there is a special

22:14

grace for those

22:16

who are a part of his family , and

22:19

it's actually really easy to get into his

22:21

family . The

22:23

ability to get into the family is

22:26

open to anybody who wants to , and

22:28

this is something that Josh Creel

22:30

turned me on to , which is the

22:33

difference between perfection and devotion , that

22:36

we are not perfect , but we can be devoted

22:38

you see that difference Makes perfect sense

22:40

. Yeah , he's not waiting for us

22:42

to be perfect lawkeepers , because he knows we're

22:44

not , but he is looking

22:46

for people that , whenever we stumble

22:49

, we keep on running back to him

22:52

because we're devoted to him .

22:53

Does that make sense ? Makes total sense , and

22:56

I think that there's an aspect like you set up a great analogy

22:58

there with my family gets preferential

23:01

treatment . But if you knock

23:03

on my door and you need

23:05

help , I'm going to invite

23:07

you in , and if you come in , guess what ? You're

23:10

part of the family , you're in my household , right

23:12

, and the thing we can be thankful for

23:14

is that God's table is never going to run

23:16

out of room .

23:17

That's right .

23:18

Right , there's room at the table for everyone

23:20

. Right , and it's up to

23:22

us to knock that

23:24

. He's there . He's there , the

23:27

invitation is open . It's up to us to knock

23:29

. Right , he's never going to force us

23:31

. God is never going to twist our arm

23:33

behind our backs and say you better love me

23:35

. He just

23:37

says I love you .

23:39

You're welcome here . That's one of the

23:42

points you made in the lesson this morning , which

23:44

was God's grace

23:46

does not isn't

23:48

contingent on our goodness . It's

23:51

contingent on God's goodness . It's his , yeah

23:54

. Why Explain that ? Unpack that

23:56

.

23:58

Well , because I think of it like when with my kids , when

24:01

our kids are born , they're

24:03

babies and this , this

24:05

won't sit well with a lot of women , but it's

24:08

true , our babies aren't

24:10

born loving us , right

24:13

. Right , they don't know anything , right , they're a blank

24:15

slate . And

24:17

the truth is we

24:20

love them from the moment we know that they're coming

24:22

. From the moment you get the

24:24

news that you're going to have a baby , love

24:26

is there . Love is present in

24:29

that , in the preparation , right , you have their

24:31

room , you buy stuff for their room

24:34

, you buy a crib , you buy a changing table , you

24:37

buy diapers and all the things that you're going to need . You make preparation

24:40

and you make plans . You have plans and

24:43

then they arrive , and so you've already

24:45

shown all this love upfront

24:48

and then they're here and

24:51

then it begins and

24:54

eventually what happens is they love you back . But

24:58

that's taught . That's taught through

25:00

the provision and the care

25:02

and the planning and all those things . They

25:04

learn love from us because we

25:06

show it first . And that's exactly what John

25:08

tells us in 1 John 4 that we love because God

25:11

first loved us . So the same

25:13

, I think , is with grace , that

25:16

we the and I'll

25:18

say this the older I get , the more I understand it

25:20

. The longer I'm a parent

25:23

, the more I understand . There's nothing

25:25

that my son could do that

25:27

could ever make me love him less ever

25:29

.

25:31

You mentioned that 1 John passage . Right

25:33

in there it also John

25:35

says , not that we loved

25:38

him , but that he loved

25:40

us . Why is that a

25:42

big deal ? Why is that a big differentiation

25:45

?

25:47

Because , again , I think we learn to love

25:49

right . He is

25:51

love , that's right . And so

25:53

what it is that we

25:56

learn his attributes

25:58

. The

26:00

longer we're alive we see it , more we

26:02

recognize the things that maybe we

26:04

didn't recognize before . My son , when

26:08

he was 10 years old , he

26:10

just thought that groceries magically appeared

26:12

, that he would come to the refrigerator

26:14

and there's drinks and there's snacks and there's all

26:17

these things , and it wasn't until he had to go buy

26:19

some of his own Right that he's

26:21

like oh , this is how that happens . And so

26:23

the same thing with us . The older we get , the more

26:25

we realize oh God

26:27

did that , god

26:29

provided that . And we just don't see

26:31

things . When we're younger and maybe it's limited sight

26:34

, maybe it's we're in a different place where we're

26:36

wrapped up in our own things . But I

26:38

want to say , the older we get , the wider our eyes

26:40

get and we begin to see the

26:44

working of God that we it's always

26:46

been there , but we just never saw

26:48

it . Until we look in the review and

26:50

I think , whether it's love or grace or

26:53

any of those aspects of his goodness

26:55

, it's always been there . It's

26:57

always been there . I think that's why it's a big deal .

27:00

I completely agree with that I also

27:02

think about our

27:05

understanding of love , just like you were talking about

27:07

, is so based on perspective

27:10

, and until you grow up a little bit

27:12

, you don't really understand what love is . You

27:15

understand the benefits of love , you understand

27:17

it . Christmas you get some really nice gifts but

27:19

you don't understand generosity at Christmas

27:21

yet . But when you're

27:23

a parent , you understand generosity . God

27:26

understands love perfectly

27:28

and we keep on having to figure

27:30

out what love is by looking to him again

27:33

. Does that make sense ? 100% , yeah

27:35

, okay , I

27:38

want to say it again . You did an excellent

27:40

job this morning , thank you . What

27:42

do we do this week that we haven't been

27:44

doing ? Put some verbs and sentences

27:47

. What should we change about our lives

27:49

? What should make us ? How should we be different

27:51

this week ?

27:53

In the lesson I talked about a couple of different aspects

27:55

of his goodness . That God's

27:58

goodness is not always pleasant , it's

28:00

not equal , it's not contingent

28:02

upon us and in

28:04

those aspects there are some calls to

28:06

action already . But I think this week undoubtedly

28:09

what's going to happen , and maybe not you

28:12

or maybe not this week or whatever

28:14

, but somebody at some point is going to experience

28:17

difficulty . Look

28:19

for the good Right . You

28:21

and I have we've done several podcasts

28:24

together and you always ask

28:26

me what is good , that's right

28:28

, and it's very easy to say God is

28:30

good , especially after today's lesson . But

28:32

I think find the good . There's

28:35

good in everything and

28:38

even in the worst

28:40

situations that I can think of

28:42

that I've experienced . There

28:45

was good , I think , one of the lessons that

28:47

I didn't . I changed

28:49

a few of my lessons for the teens this weekend as

28:52

I got to know the group a little bit better . I said you know what that

28:54

might be too heavy of a lesson , but one of the lessons I was going to give

28:57

was about a young man that

28:59

I worked with when I first moved to Birmingham

29:01

who was dealing with heroin addiction

29:04

and he died . He overdosed and

29:06

I struggled , man . I struggled to see God

29:09

in that because what

29:11

Will wanted to do was he wanted to help

29:13

his friends who had also fallen into addiction

29:15

and to help them find

29:18

what he had found . So there , to help

29:20

them find what he found and

29:22

to get back on track . And unfortunately

29:25

he relapsed and he overdosed and he didn't

29:27

get to do that then

29:30

but he did because

29:33

he had seven friends and

29:35

four out of those seven are now faithful

29:37

Christians again and sober . And

29:40

I saw his mom I

29:42

guess it was a couple of years after his death and

29:44

I saw her at a Panera bread and we sat down and

29:46

Kelly and I and we were talking with her and

29:49

she said I used to pray all the time that

29:52

Will

29:54

could find peace and I used

29:56

to pray all the time that when he was ready , god would just

29:58

take him and she goes and you know what ? That's

30:00

what happened . She said , when

30:03

he repented that night with you and I there and

30:05

he went on to bed , I didn't know he

30:07

was gonna die , she said . But

30:10

I know that he found peace because

30:12

whatever you and I think peace is , it

30:14

pales in comparison to what Will found

30:16

when he opened his eyes , because

30:19

he repented right and

30:21

she goes . I have no doubt where Will is . But

30:24

more than that , his life

30:27

affected and produced

30:29

change in others . Maybe

30:33

his whole life was about those other people , and

30:36

it's hard to see that in the moment because you're thinking

30:38

, man , I just got robbed . He

30:41

just got robbed of having this impact

30:43

that he wanted to have , but he still had it , and

30:46

so there was goodness in that . It's hard to

30:48

say that there was goodness in the death of anybody

30:50

, but there was goodness that was produced by

30:53

his passing , and so sometimes

30:56

we don't see it through

30:58

the windshield , we see it in a preview , but

31:01

nonetheless you can see goodness . So I think that's one

31:03

thing we can do . We can find goodness in

31:05

situations and we can also understand

31:08

that

31:10

with that waiting , there

31:14

will be goodness that we produce . I

31:17

spoke a little bit about my wife's situation with

31:19

breast cancer . There

31:22

was goodness produced in that . I

31:24

found out that I really did have faith . Faith

31:27

is something we say we have until

31:30

you find yourself in a situation like that and

31:33

then you're not sure . I

31:35

know . Now I know , and

31:38

so if I can see the good in a

31:40

tragedy and I can also

31:42

see the good in my own situations , I

31:44

think that those are things we can put into action right

31:47

away . Obviously a long game that

31:50

comes with bearing with others and being patient with

31:52

others and seeing goodness in long-term

31:55

situations . But I think , if

31:57

we're just talking about starting tomorrow , look for the

31:59

good , look for the good

32:01

in all of it . It's there .

32:05

The other thing that you said , and you

32:08

almost quoted my line . You

32:11

said that

32:14

God and the character of God is good . God

32:16

is good and that

32:18

should cause you to go out and do good . What

32:21

kind of good could we do ?

32:29

It's the small things . Right

32:32

, because when you think about good it's so big

32:34

. Right , if

32:36

you think about it , good is so big . But what can

32:38

I do ? What

32:41

can I do tonight when I go to the airport to go

32:43

home , I could

32:45

be courteous to

32:48

the security officers . They have a hard job . No

32:51

doubt it's frustrating and people are frustrated with them , but

32:54

you could be . You could just smile at

32:57

someone , you could extend a kind

32:59

word to someone , you could listen

33:01

. Sometimes you get on the plane

33:03

and , what's funny ? People

33:05

don't usually talk on planes anymore

33:08

. It's like they get on a plane and they're just in

33:10

their own world and they've got their earbuds in

33:12

and they're listening to a podcast or something . But

33:14

if someone talks

33:16

to you , instead of blowing

33:18

them off , respond

33:20

listen . Maybe they just need

33:23

to get something off their chest and you're an

33:25

anonymous person that could hear this thing and

33:27

give them some sort of comfort . I don't know . There's

33:30

so many things that we could do , just small things

33:32

, little things , but that

33:34

all point towards a greater good

33:36

.

33:39

Well , you've kind of stolen my last question . But

33:41

that said , how

33:47

do you do good ?

33:56

You're gonna make me cry , kenny , not

33:59

trying to keep , I know , but it's the thing is

34:01

, it

34:05

becomes something that

34:08

you're either hyper aware of or

34:10

completely oblivious to . Yeah , but

34:14

there's a conscious choice every day To

34:18

see the good in others and

34:21

to be the good that you want to see in

34:23

others . Mm-hmm , it's hard . We

34:26

live in a hard world . We live in a time where

34:28

when kindness is

34:30

conditional and it's

34:33

hard To not

34:35

respond with the same

34:37

thing that you get , and so the

34:40

way that I try to do good is

34:44

To grit

34:46

my teeth and

34:50

do the thing that makes me the most uncomfortable and

34:55

I'm sharing . Maybe I'm over sharing here , but I choose happiness

34:57

. Yeah , I , despite

34:59

appearances , I'm not a naturally

35:02

happy person . I Wake

35:04

up with a monkey on my back every

35:06

day . It stays there . Yeah

35:08

, I think often about

35:10

the days of addiction

35:13

, the hurt that I produced , the heartache that

35:15

I caused , and

35:17

I know that I've been forgiven . I talked about

35:19

that . Yeah , I know that , yeah , yeah

35:21

but man , he's there and

35:24

To be

35:27

happy is Not

35:29

a natural is not a natural thing that I

35:31

do . I choose it . There

35:34

are days that I don't want to and I fight that battle . I

35:36

fight it and Most

35:39

of the time I win . Sometimes I

35:41

don't , and I have to remember , to give

35:43

myself grace , that I'm

35:45

human and that I'm gonna have

35:47

bad days and I'm allowed to . But man , the

35:51

most good that I can do is choose

35:53

happiness , choose

35:55

kindness and then let

35:57

that infect others . I ought

36:00

to be the most infectious person In

36:03

any room that I'm in yeah and

36:05

sometimes I just want to be the less Seen

36:08

person in any room that I'm in . I just don't . I want

36:10

to be small and invisible . But

36:13

I know that if I do that I'm robbing myself

36:15

of the purpose that God gave me , and

36:18

that's to go make disciples .

36:20

That's right , keith , I

36:24

love you . Thank you so much for doing

36:26

this man .

36:26

I love you too , brother . Thank you so much for letting me . It's

36:29

always a joy . I love talking to you , whether

36:32

the microphones are on or not . I know

36:34

that I love these conversations so much

36:36

and I'm just grateful we were recording

36:38

this one today . Me too

36:40

.

36:41

Thanks , man .

36:41

Thank you , brother I .

36:46

Always enjoyed talking to Keith . He's somebody

36:49

that I identify with , even though our stories

36:51

are completely different . I admire

36:53

who he is and I admire what he does . We

36:56

had a great time and I'm glad that he was

36:58

able to come down to Tampa and speak for

37:00

our teens and also for all of

37:02

us . Keith is one of those

37:04

guys that make me better because

37:06

I know him . So thanks , keith

37:09

, I appreciate that . As

37:11

for the good thing I'm thinking about , I'm

37:14

grateful for people who support me , especially

37:16

in times of need . There's been

37:18

a few friends that have really helped me

37:20

out a lot in the past few weeks , especially

37:24

my wife . It's easy to

37:26

take these people for granted or

37:28

not to thank them , but

37:30

they need to be thanked . I Think

37:32

it's important that we both give gratitude

37:34

, but also learn how to accept

37:36

gratitude as well . I'm gonna

37:38

give my gratitude to my wife , keith

37:41

, to a lot of people that have been

37:43

very dear to me . So

37:45

until next time , let's be good and do

37:47

good .