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autosport.com and Autosport Magazine, I'm Bryn

1:33

Lucas and you're listening to the

1:36

Autosport F1 podcast. Well,

1:41

you know what they say, all good things in life

1:43

come in threes. And that was certainly

1:45

the case for Red Bull in Japan as

1:48

Max Verstappen took his third win in 2024

1:50

and in dominant fashion. It was his third

1:52

straight win in Japan and teammate Sergio Perez

1:54

followed Max home for a third Red Bull

1:56

One-Two finish of the year. So here's a

1:58

rundown of the results. As you say,

2:01

Max and Sergio coming home first and

2:03

second, then the Ferraris of Carlos Sainz

2:05

and Charles Leclerc gaining four places up

2:07

on his qualifying position. Lando Norris finished

2:09

fifth, then it was Fernando Alonso and

2:11

the Aston Martin in sixth. Russell

2:14

for Mercedes in seventh. Piaestri in

2:16

eighth. Yes, Lewis Hamilton way down

2:18

in ninth for the Mercedes. And

2:20

Yuki Sanoda scoring that valuable point in front of

2:22

his home fans. A great result for him. Bochenburg,

2:25

Lance Stroll, Magnuson Bottas, Arcon and

2:27

Gasly in fifteenth and sixteenth, then

2:30

Sargent bringing it home in seventeenth

2:32

and last place. The final three

2:34

drivers, Jo Gwen Yoo, Daniel Ricciardo

2:36

and Alex Alban, are all DNFs.

2:39

So joining me now to make

2:41

sense of all the action, Philip

2:43

Clearen and Jake Boxall, a.k.a. JBL.

2:46

We also have to put that in, don't we?

2:48

Gentlemen, how are you doing? JBL? Very

2:51

good, thank you. As you can see,

2:53

Brod, I'm currently wearing my Joval shirt. Now

2:55

Joval lost last night, but

2:59

one more game and I think we're about

3:01

to win the National League South if we

3:03

can just not concede a goal. So

3:05

I'm sort of feeling okay, I'm feeling relatively

3:07

fresh. Race was very sort

3:09

of tactical, very strategic. So

3:12

I'm just sort of like on a little bit of a, it'd be

3:14

nice to sort of have a chill chat about everything

3:17

that happened. I'm an all

3:19

shot town fan, so we're probably not

3:21

going to make the playoffs trying to get out

3:23

of the National League proper. So

3:25

hopefully we'll see you in the National League next year. Phil, I

3:27

don't think you support an English National

3:29

League team, do you? I

3:31

actually support Southampton, which I believe, because I studied

3:33

there for a little bit. So

3:36

not quite National League, but it's looking

3:39

a little bit tough now to go up. Anyway.

3:42

Play your cards right in Southampton to be

3:44

in the National League before you know it.

3:46

So there we go, that's our non-F1

3:49

based chat out the way. Let's talk

3:51

about this Grand Prix

3:53

we've all just witnessed. Max Verstappen took

3:55

another comfortable victory in the end. This

3:57

is 20th in the last 22. races.

4:00

It's a familiar line, familiar conversation

4:03

point but JBL just how easy

4:06

was it for Red Bull out there? I

4:10

think it wasn't let's say

4:12

as clear-cut as it was in maybe

4:14

a few other races. Ferrari

4:16

was a lot closer than it was last year. The

4:20

kind of science is only 20 seconds off of the Stappen.

4:22

I don't believe that the Stappen was really

4:25

pushing it in this race because tyre

4:27

degradation was such a mitigating

4:29

factor. I think it

4:31

was something that towards the end you know

4:35

they very much had a grasp on

4:37

but it wasn't his most vintage display

4:39

but it was just a sort of

4:41

relatively easy Sunday afternoon drive. He was kind

4:43

of sort of driving within himself because he

4:45

didn't really need to push anymore. There

4:48

was no point. So yeah it wasn't

4:50

an absolute barnstormer from for Stappen

4:53

by any stretch but it was just a

4:55

really good solid drive, did everything he needed

4:57

to do and he

4:59

got the win and shout out to Sergio Perez

5:02

as well for actually doing

5:04

a proper support driver job after

5:07

Melbourne last weekend where the

5:09

Stappen retired and he wasn't there to pick up the pieces. Really

5:13

good race from the both. Again nothing

5:15

special but you know sometimes you don't

5:17

need to do anything special. Yeah

5:19

the only drama that was there was Max

5:23

and his race engineer debating over whether he

5:25

needed to fewer clicks of front ring or

5:27

not which they disagreed about

5:30

and that was sort of the only thing that

5:33

you know represents any sort of drama for Red

5:35

Bull today so that tells you a lot.

5:37

Yeah it's a little

5:39

bit depressing that JVO as you say the gap

5:42

to signs was only 20 seconds. It's

5:46

still quite a chasm for me but yeah

5:48

it does show that Ferrari made a lot

5:50

of progress compared to last year and still

5:53

playing sailing on a

5:55

circle like this. We have lots of high-speed stuff

5:57

though. Red Bull is just untouchable. I

6:01

don't want to get moving away

6:03

from Red Bull too quickly, but we find

6:06

it very hard to find new things to say

6:09

about Red Bull. They're so dominant, they're so strong.

6:11

Max's drive is fantastic as always. Sergio did a

6:13

good job this weekend and that's the only thing

6:15

we ever really talk about, isn't it? How well

6:17

Sergio Perez has done comparatively to Max Verstappen who's

6:19

likely to win. But if there's anyone that's going

6:21

to really impact them,

6:24

it's the Ferrari and it's not the car

6:26

driven by the guy who is staying next

6:28

year. Carlos Sainz, he got his third podium

6:30

in 2024. Leclerc coming back,

6:33

gained four places from his qualifying

6:35

position on a one-stop strategy. But

6:37

is there any doubt really remaining?

6:39

I'm going for your former name

6:41

now, Phil. That's the Ferrari are

6:44

the second team. It's

6:46

very formal now, yes. You're my

6:48

uncle now. No,

6:50

that's a really dope doubt. I don't think

6:52

there has been across

6:55

the first four races of

6:57

the season. We've had a variety of circuits,

7:00

all very different content, low speed,

7:03

high speed, street circuit, whatever you

7:05

want, a rough time-ax, off time-ax.

7:07

It's clear that Ferrari is the

7:09

second fault, which speaks

7:12

volumes about how much they have improved

7:14

their woes from last year, whether it's

7:16

at higher management, whether it's just their

7:18

general consistency in the race, their susceptibility

7:23

to changing conditions and wins and what

7:25

have you. It is

7:27

interesting to see how Carlos

7:30

performs. He keeps saying

7:32

that he doesn't need to

7:34

prove himself. Everybody up and down the

7:36

panic knows what he can do. He's

7:38

absolutely correct. It does seem like he

7:41

lost his job. He's driving like a man possessed

7:43

at the moment. He's performing

7:46

at his

7:48

absolute peak. I'm really interested

7:51

to see if that is going

7:54

to sway any opinions of other team

7:56

bosses in terms of whether they will

7:59

try to do it. and snap him up. But

8:01

at the same time I think also, you know,

8:05

it all comes down to qualifying as

8:07

well because Charles didn't have the best

8:10

qualifying starting outside the top six. But then

8:12

if you look at what the difference

8:14

was, it was only like a tenth and a half

8:16

that covered the entire sort of top

8:19

six behind Red Bull at least. So it's

8:22

not like so many Charles and Noah, but if

8:24

you qualify poorly with such a tight grid, then

8:26

it's just really hard to move up even if

8:28

he tried to wear the one stop, that almost

8:30

worked. I think

8:33

Leclerc needs to be a little bit

8:35

more commended for his race because yeah,

8:37

qualifying wasn't very good. And

8:39

that's largely because there was

8:41

such a sort of fine margin with regards to tyre

8:43

preparation over the lap. Leclerc wasn't able

8:45

to quite hit that and science can kind of hit

8:47

it a little bit more. But

8:51

turning around that one stop strategy, that was really,

8:53

really strong effort from Leclerc. His

8:55

stint on the medium tyres was super consistent.

8:59

I think I've got the times up in front of me

9:01

somewhere. But yeah, he was

9:03

just able to rattle off a series

9:05

of laps in the 137, sort of

9:07

138 every now and again, just

9:10

brick keeping those tyres in, not taking too much out

9:12

of them. And then when it came to

9:14

the point where he needed to pit, he stayed out, Norris

9:17

was catching him. He

9:19

managed to stay out, go in ahead, come

9:22

out ahead. And

9:24

that really made it for him because

9:26

Norris, up until that point, was looking

9:28

like a potential podium contender. So

9:32

for Leclerc to kind of turn that around, that was

9:34

really, really strong effort. And I think he should get

9:36

a little bit more plauded for it

9:38

because it wasn't the optimal strategy,

9:40

it wasn't really the fastest strategy. I think

9:42

science had that. And

9:45

yes, as Phil said, science has

9:48

been driving out of his skin lately, seems

9:50

to have really just taken a liking to

9:53

this new car. Seems to

9:55

be a lot more balanced. He seems to be able to

9:57

kind of do what he wants to do

9:59

with it. without having to think about it too much

10:01

and that's giving him a little bit more mental latitude

10:03

to kind of, let's say,

10:06

optimize and work on the strategies that

10:08

Ferrari's giving him and that he's giving

10:10

feedback on. It's sort

10:12

of very much a kind of two-way thing with science.

10:15

He's really, really good at calling the shots when he's

10:17

out on track. So I think both

10:19

Ferrari drivers have done a really, really good job today.

10:21

They weren't going to have the pace to beat the Red

10:23

Bulls. It wasn't a race where, like Australia, where there was

10:26

quite a lot of tyre graining.

10:29

It was just a sort of standard, relatively

10:31

high tyre-deck race. Ferrari's

10:33

worked on that significantly over the winter

10:36

and their degradation relative to Red Bull

10:38

is so much better now. But

10:40

it's just out and out pace that Ferrari's lacking

10:42

a little bit compared to Red Bull. I think,

10:45

you know, maybe about four-tenths a lap

10:47

so if they can find a little bit more downforce

10:49

without ruining all the good work they've done on their

10:51

tyre-deck, they'll be in a really good place. Yes,

10:54

absolutely. I mean, if you look at Carlos

10:56

Sainz though for a moment, he's just out driving

10:58

his team out. I know you say Charles did

11:01

a good job today and he certainly did, but

11:03

Carlos Sainz, the three Grand Prix that he's taken

11:05

part in because he had that operation, didn't he,

11:07

at Saudi Arabia. He's been on the podium every

11:10

single time. Charlotte Clark has had two out of

11:12

those four races. So when you look at the

11:14

shop window, Carlos Sainz is making

11:16

his argument or the argument for him

11:18

to be in any seat next year

11:21

compelling, especially when you look further down

11:23

the line and you've got Daniel Ricciardo who was

11:25

one of those drivers that you think, okay, he might

11:27

be one that will go and step in here or

11:30

step in there. And there is Carlos Sainz saying, hang

11:32

on a minute, don't forget me. And it's a

11:34

tough one, isn't it? We'll come to Daniel Ricciardo, I'm

11:36

sure, in a bit. But Phil, your thoughts on this

11:39

Carlos Sainz situation and just where he can go, it

11:41

seems like he could just pick a team at the

11:43

moment. Yeah, it's intriguing. You

11:45

have to go back to what Christian Horner

11:47

said in Australia when he was asked about

11:49

Yuki Tinoda and his

11:52

prospect of graduating and he turned

11:54

the question into one about Carlos

11:58

Sainz, just unprompted. And

12:02

it's interesting, isn't it, what they're going to do,

12:04

because they've got a few options, Rebel do, and

12:06

science has to be one of them now. But,

12:09

you know, it's like, and

12:11

it's just kind of a good analogy that I

12:14

came up with during the race, during a boring

12:16

spell, was like, you know, it

12:18

held like Christian Horne is 50 now, but coincidentally, but

12:20

it's like, if like, imagine you have

12:22

your midlife crisis and you've got your comfortable

12:26

family station wagon, but

12:29

you're just browsing brochures and you see

12:31

like, you know, a couple of really interesting

12:34

looking sports cars, they're a lot quicker, but

12:36

not quite as comfortable for

12:39

your family, but you're like quite tempted to go for

12:41

them. I feel like in this case,

12:43

Sergio Perris is sort of the station wagon where you

12:45

know what you're going to get, and there's no dramas

12:47

in the team, but he's not quite

12:50

the quickest option. So do you

12:52

go for like the more sports car, Carla

12:55

Sauns, Fernando Alonso option, which

12:58

are an upgrade, but not

13:00

quite as, you know, there might be a

13:02

more exciting, but not quite as comfortable within

13:04

the team in terms of

13:06

the dynamics and everything going on. So

13:08

it's just sort of that question of,

13:11

is Checo going to be confirming his form?

13:14

That has to be very good. So far, let's be clear

13:16

about that this year. Once

13:19

Rebel makes a decision around the

13:21

summertime, will Checo have been able

13:23

to confirm that form? Or

13:26

is it another full storm, like you saw two years

13:28

ago, where he started off really strongly, once

13:30

he races and then he just disappeared? So

13:33

I think Rebel has a time on its side, but surely

13:36

they have to be considering Carlos. And

13:38

then as far as the other teams go, I'm

13:41

not sure Carlos is necessarily off of

13:43

the list at Mercedes, I don't believe, because

13:46

I think they really want Antonelli in the

13:48

seat as soon as possible. Now

13:50

they're not just going to chuck him in the

13:52

seat, unprepared. He's doing

13:55

testing a week from

13:57

now and they're going to give him the time

13:59

to prepare. But that does

14:01

mean, say that Antonelli only joins

14:04

in one year or two years, you need a

14:06

backup option that can sort of keep you seat

14:08

warm. And I just don't

14:10

think Carlos will be the man to accept

14:12

that at this stage of his career. So

14:15

you need somebody that is happy to just

14:18

be there for one or two seasons. Whereas

14:20

I think Carlos really wants a long term commitment.

14:23

It's going to be interesting to see how this

14:25

one really does play out. And as you mentioned,

14:28

the drivers that have done very, very well, or

14:30

certainly not surprisingly, it's

14:32

Fernando Alonso, isn't he? I mean, he's another

14:34

driver who's been on the block, around the

14:36

block, up and down the block. He's been

14:38

on the block for a very long time.

14:41

It was another great finished sixth place

14:43

for him. I think he described it

14:45

JBL as one of his best ever

14:47

drives. It was in his top five, certainly.

14:50

And I don't know, it's

14:53

always a thing with Fernando that he is incredibly

14:56

self aggrandizing and if he'll do an overtake or

14:58

something, and it might be sort of like a

15:00

relatively round in the middle of the day, oh,

15:02

that's the best overtake I've ever done. But you

15:06

do have to read between the lines a little

15:08

bit. And you do need to look at his

15:10

race. And it was actually, I'm not going to say it

15:12

is among his top five, but

15:14

it was generally very, very good. You're

15:17

really impressive. Especially

15:19

when you look at the Aston Martin, the

15:22

package is clearly the fifth best car

15:24

on the grid. There is quite a bit of margin

15:26

to the back five cars. There's

15:28

not too much of a gap to Mercedes

15:30

and perhaps to McLaren as well. But

15:33

it's still generally slower. And Alonso,

15:36

I think over performed what the

15:38

car realistically was capable of. It's

15:40

probably like P8, P9 material. So

15:43

for Alonso to put the race together

15:46

that he did, soft tires didn't at the start

15:48

was absolutely vital to that because, you

15:50

know, he got a good start made

15:52

up ground. And then it was

15:54

able to keep those tires in as well. It wasn't

15:57

like it got to lap five and they just died

15:59

and fell on. He was able to sort of

16:01

keep pace with everybody else around him. So that put

16:03

him on a sort of Relatively

16:06

even state of flux with with with

16:08

everybody else Then

16:11

he went to the the medium stint and the hard

16:13

stint I think that was basically he

16:15

said after the race that was the only real

16:17

option available to him But

16:20

at the end as well, it's just a

16:22

fantastic bit of gamesmanship and it was like

16:24

watching science in Singapore last year He

16:27

had Piaestri behind him Russell

16:30

was homing interview as well. And

16:32

long as it was like what? Yeah, you can have dare I ask

16:34

her I don't mind. I'm just gonna you know

16:37

Use my energy up recharge through the

16:39

rest of the light where it's a lot harder to pass And

16:44

then when Piaestri started to come under attack

16:46

from Russell Alonzo

16:48

was like right. Okay, I'm off now. Bye

16:50

guys fight it out amongst yourselves So

16:53

I thought it was just a really really Brilliant

16:56

Alonzo Ian Drive really

17:00

really strongly thought out he was

17:02

kind of Driving

17:04

everybody else's races for them in a sense, which

17:06

is when he's at his absolute best Yeah,

17:09

massive turnaround from Australia last week. Yeah,

17:11

really really good day from him Yeah,

17:15

if an under seems to think he's had

17:17

a top five driver every other week So

17:19

I think you'll find if there are 12

17:21

to 13 races in your top five You'll

17:23

find that it's a bit of an issue

17:25

mathematically But yeah, it does

17:27

seem like if he's not on the podium that

17:29

he's keen to remind people how good he was

17:31

in case they didn't see it but

17:34

yeah, he was brilliant today and especially

17:37

after the offensive Melbourne with the

17:40

penalty got for Indirectly

17:42

causing George George Russell's accident. I think

17:44

it was good to see him defend

17:47

properly within you know within the rule

17:49

book and questionably and Yeah,

17:53

I don't think I would disagree with

17:55

him that that chorus is faster. It's

17:57

probably around there It's not you know

18:00

He's no match from McLaren and he finished ahead

18:02

of one. So good job by him That's

18:05

fastest if you don't include Lance Stroll I

18:07

think is fair to say and we would

18:10

I was have to think and JBL We spoke very

18:12

briefly about this before we went and started recording this

18:15

but Keeping Flando Alonso, but

18:17

after Martin if you want success You almost need

18:19

to keep someone like that who's a regular point

18:21

scorer and a decent point scorer in the team

18:23

So you can actually develop and move on with

18:26

Lance Stroll and we talked about it too many times So

18:29

I'm not gonna dwell on it for too long. But Lance

18:32

Stroll in that team not point scoring He's

18:34

it's hampering Aston Martin being able to get

18:36

on the back of that fourth place in

18:38

the constructors and it's worth a lot of

18:40

money So I know that the finances in

18:42

a way is Aston Martin, but what do

18:44

we think about this? I mean, it's

18:46

Fernando gonna jump ship if Lance Stroll

18:49

stays is it as clear cut as

18:51

that JBL? I

18:54

don't know if it's as clear cut as that it

18:56

I do agree that he's costing the team points And

18:58

that was the case last year Aston

19:02

Martin probably should have beaten McLaren

19:04

in the constructors championship, but because of

19:06

Stroll's pretty poor

19:08

scoring record And

19:10

you compare that to Piastri That

19:14

was just where they fell down on points

19:16

and and the lonzos or carried the team

19:18

almost single-handedly into that position To

19:21

have to drive, you know, even a driver

19:23

that's you know, not quite on the lonzos

19:25

level, but you know that as say Somebody

19:27

like a Perez or an Ocon or a ghazly in

19:30

that second seat. They would have done it probably quite

19:32

easily so for

19:35

Aston Martin it's No

19:39

longer just it shouldn't just be a

19:41

Lawrence throw vanity project This should be

19:43

a genuine team that has genuine ambition

19:45

to fight for constructors championships When

19:48

you employ a driver, that's kind of an odds with that

19:51

Yes, but you know, what's what's the

19:53

game plan here? And I

19:55

think along they sort of has recognized that I

19:57

think his

19:59

ambition is to win a

20:02

third and final drivers title, let's say. But

20:05

he recognised the value of a Constructors Championship

20:07

and if the team isn't performing

20:09

and it's not getting the prize money in,

20:11

then that has an impact

20:14

on infrastructure and things like that. It

20:16

means the team can't quite do as

20:18

much with its

20:21

car. So it's a bit

20:23

of a catch-22. Alonzo did

20:25

say when he first joined the team, Lance

20:28

Stroll was the future of the team and he wanted to do

20:30

everything to support him and that kind of thing. But

20:33

he must again, I think this is

20:35

just classic Alonzo gamesmanship trying to curry

20:39

a little bit of favour so that he can

20:41

spend his points a little bit later when he's

20:43

moaning about something. So

20:45

it's just a difficult situation, isn't

20:47

it? I know

20:50

that he's the CEO's son,

20:53

but at some point, at what

20:55

point does a team's performance become more

20:58

important than for Millie's eyes? And I think

21:00

we've probably long surpassed that point. Yeah,

21:03

it all comes down to what's the goal here.

21:05

And if the goal

21:07

that Lawrence Stroll has set out is still

21:09

to be the new Red Bull, let's say,

21:12

and to produce a car that's so good

21:14

that it not only wins the championship, but

21:16

also Lance can be a contender and be

21:18

a regular race winner, then

21:21

as you see with Chaco Perez, he's won quite a

21:23

few races, not as many as he should have, but

21:25

he won a few races with Red Bull when

21:28

it was so dominant. So if you're trying

21:32

to emulate that, then that's not necessarily

21:35

conflicting with Fernando Alonzo's ambitions.

21:37

He also wants to be in the best car. So

21:40

I don't think he'll worry too much about Lance

21:43

or about the constructive championship, as

21:45

long as he sees the drive

21:47

that he didn't see at Elping, the

21:50

drive to really become the best in every single

21:52

area, and then compete for

21:54

the World Championship. And 2026 will be

21:57

the best opportunity for NASA Mars. starting

22:00

to do so. And now

22:02

it's up to Alonzo to decide, is

22:05

Aston still going to be the team to do

22:07

it? Is there

22:09

a different opportunity, whether that's at Red Bull or

22:11

Mercedes, if those options are not

22:13

even there, we

22:15

still don't know that 100%. It could also be

22:18

gain some of the ship by drivers and by managers

22:20

to get the, bring

22:23

the driver price up if you will. So

22:26

I don't think, I

22:28

don't think if Fernando thinks Aston

22:31

has what it takes to become the best team on the Great,

22:33

then I don't think he'll leave just because it's

22:35

not scoring all the points with his second drive. And I

22:37

think that's really his premium. Yeah,

22:40

and as we alluded to on this a little bit though,

22:42

that if you're not scoring the

22:44

points in the championship as a team collectively,

22:46

then you're appealed to the top designers. That

22:48

isn't quite so great. So you don't get

22:50

the very, very best, the very, very best

22:52

you're having to go to the B

22:55

team, but certainly you're having to fish

22:58

around a bit more for those that you want. Let's

23:00

move to a driver who's definitely moving. That's Louis Hamilton.

23:03

We know he's going to Ferrari in 2025. He

23:06

spoke of a breakthrough with the

23:08

Mercedes W15 despite its seventh

23:10

place start, but it was a difficult race for

23:12

him, wasn't it Phil? And it

23:15

just seems that it's another false dawn for the Bracte

23:17

team. We've spoken about this and you've written an article

23:19

about how they seem to struggle in different temperatures and

23:21

they've kind of got on top of this a little

23:24

bit, but it just didn't play into their

23:26

hands. Yeah,

23:28

and I think they expected to

23:30

do better if

23:33

you look at the temperatures this weekend, but then actually

23:35

on race day, I think the track was

23:37

about 14 degrees hotter than it was on

23:40

Saturday during qualifying. So maybe

23:42

this is another symptom where they

23:44

looked pretty okay earlier

23:47

on in the weekend, but then when

23:49

the temperatures ramp up, they start struggling

23:51

again. And that's

23:53

probably the main hypothesis right now. I

23:55

don't think they've, well, it's too early

23:58

to tell because of recording. the

24:00

night of the race so they won't have the

24:02

answers yet but they'll have to do some more

24:04

soul searching and see what's going on. It's

24:08

perfectly possible that during the

24:10

first stint when it was really sunny out there

24:12

they started just eating up

24:14

the tires too much and then I think

24:16

when it got a lot more

24:19

cloudy during the second part of the race they

24:21

seemed to be on the pace again. It

24:24

is quite curious and so

24:26

far temperature seems to be the main

24:30

factor here, at least that we can

24:32

identify. It needs to

24:34

be sorted though doesn't it because it's all well

24:36

and good racing in the cold places but it

24:38

doesn't happen all that often that they go to

24:40

places where we're off to Antarctica for the

24:42

next round of the Grand Prix and the next Grand Prix in

24:44

the World Championships so they're going to have to get on top

24:47

of it. I'm just looking

24:50

at Lewis Hamilton, his body language and the

24:52

way he seems to me, it's

24:55

been said he's not looking across the fence, he's

24:57

not looking over at what's going on at Ferrari

24:59

but of course he is, he's going to be

25:01

having a look isn't he? He's going to be

25:03

intrigued and be probably wishing he was sitting in

25:05

that Ferrari right now JBL. Yeah

25:08

I think so. I think

25:10

every race that goes by I think is

25:12

kind of cementing the right decision in his

25:15

mind, although I'd imagine if the results

25:18

in the simulator over the winter had

25:20

been more solicitous

25:23

let's say then he wouldn't have made that move. I

25:27

think it feels sort of touched upon the temperature

25:29

aspect but I think ultimately the

25:32

cars were just really really poor on the hard tyre

25:35

overall and that's something Hamilton sort of spoke

25:37

about, he wished he'd had more sets of

25:39

mediums. He

25:41

was sort of battling a little bit of damage, he

25:43

had a little bit of contact with Charles Leer early

25:45

on in the race which cost him a

25:48

little bit of time but when

25:50

you look at his stints compared to George Russell

25:52

on the medium tyre towards the end his

25:55

stint was a lot quicker so he had

25:57

pace and reserve, I Think

25:59

the damage was done very well. The very early on

26:01

I'm really really struggled on this hot

26:03

tires sickly read to to Russell rustle

26:05

us have like a little bit more

26:07

at ease with them. Hamilton said asa

26:10

we sought Am because the with a

26:12

nice little bit a team play I'm

26:14

but that economists says where Mercedes is

26:16

if they were challenging for race wins

26:18

or podiums. He'd never have made that

26:21

cool on the radio. Fighting over

26:23

seventh, eighth, and ninth them since when.

26:26

Winston and let's be honest, it's fag

26:28

him in his career am. See.

26:31

As is just not been of sixty

26:33

get their think they're still relatively optimistic

26:35

that they make breakthroughs rather says he

26:37

could weekend huge the improved over last

26:39

year and the the opening sites secular

26:41

the case that they're still getting to

26:43

grips with a very very different tar

26:45

and I don't really know what it

26:47

does. the only get kind of three

26:49

days of testing for season to learn

26:51

tidy new car and yet finding new

26:53

bit about it every weekend. The

26:56

so it doesn't need low it more time to

26:58

can understand the think think it's all doom and

27:01

gloom. Right now is just the case

27:03

of they've been working to us or

27:05

very different him she of last couple

27:07

years mess now and that's going to

27:09

take time to overcome. Yet

27:12

so him a hard time as a see

27:14

one is the hardest of all. Ties in

27:16

and didn't go to plan that install on

27:18

hearts are the stars on the mediums. but

27:20

the after a very very early red flag

27:22

they opted to move on to the hearts

27:24

are both him and your So a change

27:26

of strategy was talk about the red flag

27:28

and this is involving a driver who. Is.

27:31

Has any try? they need to but a lot. Or.

27:33

Who need something to go his

27:35

way? It's Daniel record. I was

27:37

never done ricardo involved in a

27:39

turn to. Incident: With Alex

27:42

album. Oh

27:44

do you apportion blame to all? Was

27:46

it just one of those racing incident?

27:48

Move on Jbl. Ah,

27:51

I think it will probably be said

27:53

that Mr some sorry sensitive I think

27:55

it's racing incident with a hint of

27:57

blame on Ricardo shoulders. that

28:00

you can't get the Porsche in

28:02

any blame to Albon in it really. He

28:04

was, he'd seen Ricciardo coming out of turn

28:06

two very very slowly, wanted to pounce on

28:08

it and quite rightly and he thought he'd

28:10

get the move done into turn three. Ricciardo

28:13

was looking to his left because he kind

28:15

of had sensed that Pat's Lance Stroll was

28:17

coming down that side, he zoomed

28:19

over to the racing line and just hadn't seen

28:21

Albon at all and that

28:23

was it and I think, you

28:26

know, I think it was fair to give it as

28:28

a racing incident but I do think that Ricciardo probably

28:30

could have avoided the incident by looking in the other

28:32

mirror. Wow. Yeah,

28:34

I agree. I mean, he was just looking in

28:38

his left mirror wasn't he? He wasn't expecting

28:40

end of beauty up the outside which you

28:44

could understand but you still want to check

28:46

probably before you close the door there. I

28:49

think actually the Sewitz put it well,

28:51

they said that if

28:54

this had been a first lap accident we

28:56

would have looked at this differently suggesting that

28:58

they probably would have pinged

29:00

Ricciardo for it but because he was a

29:02

first lap crash and they're a lot more

29:04

lenient than those they decided to let it

29:06

go and I think that's probably the right

29:08

decision this time. Yeah,

29:11

I mean it was a, let's just say

29:13

racing incident but Daniel Ricciardo needs to put

29:16

some different socks on or something because the ones he's got are just

29:18

not working for him. He needs to, I don't know, get

29:21

a different bed and wake up on the other side of

29:23

it or something. He's going to be trying everything over the

29:25

next couple of weeks, isn't he? Across the garage it doesn't

29:28

help though that he's having always this luck, should we say,

29:30

I mean, it's not always bad luck but

29:32

across the garage his teammate Yuki Tsunoda is

29:35

just doing it, isn't he? He

29:37

scored Japan's first point at the home

29:39

Grand Prix since Kamui Kobayashi back in

29:41

2012 and he got that amazing podium.

29:43

Just how good a drive was it

29:45

for Yuki Tsunoda, Phil? Yeah,

29:48

it was a great drive. It's very gritty, no

29:51

mistakes, very fast and on

29:54

a weekend where there would have been a lot of pressure on

29:56

him, not just for what

29:58

might happen or not. might not happen for him

30:01

in his career next year, but also just in front

30:03

of his home fans in Japan, there

30:05

was no hint of him feeling any sort of

30:07

pressure, which

30:09

was impressive. And obviously

30:12

the pit stop that he thanked the

30:14

team for, when he had this

30:16

whole gaggle of cars come in and he came out

30:18

first, that helped him a lot. But

30:21

yeah, he was very good. And again,

30:25

is he going to be

30:27

considered for a bull? I doubt it, especially not if

30:29

Christian Horda is going to be making

30:32

those calls himself, but

30:36

it does what he has to do. He can't do much more.

30:39

He can't do much more. He can't do much more JBL. And that's

30:41

the thing, you know, what does he

30:43

have to do to be looking at

30:45

the best seats in

30:48

the party? If that's the saying, we're going to call it

30:50

a saying from now on. The

30:52

best seat of the party. Well, I think

30:55

he just needs to keep doing what he's

30:57

doing because ultimately we're in

30:59

a situation where these

31:01

back five teams can't score unless one of

31:03

the top five teams has a real off

31:05

day. Today that was Stroll just being a

31:08

bit useless. So it's an ode made

31:10

the absolute most of that. His moves

31:12

at turn six around the outside, one

31:15

of them on Hulkenberg in particular was

31:17

stunning. I thought it was, you

31:19

know, you have a situation where

31:22

you're in front of your home fans. I imagine

31:24

there's a huge amount of pressure to perform. And

31:27

he just goes and pulls that

31:30

move off. And he looked, he was brave. Even

31:33

though the team sort of gave him a huge leg

31:36

up with that stop. The

31:38

fact that, you know, he put it on the

31:40

marks perfectly, got out the pits rapidly

31:42

without any real delay. It was

31:44

just like clockwork. It

31:48

was a huge, huge sort of marker

31:50

in his race that made the passes

31:52

possible. I thought it was just a really,

31:54

really good day. And

31:57

he's had such a, he's had

31:59

a really good start. of the season. Absolutely

32:02

blown Riccardo away. Riccardo the guy that was

32:05

saying, ah you know he'll come in and

32:07

replace Perez that's looking less likely by the

32:09

day. But I

32:12

just I don't know how if I was

32:15

it if I was at Red Bull I

32:17

would I would kind of considered Sonoda surely

32:19

but he just doesn't seem to, Horner doesn't

32:21

seem to rate him. Helmut

32:24

Marko sort of always sort of

32:26

seems relatively hot and cold he's always happy to

32:28

praise Sonoda when he's done a good job but

32:30

equally if he's had a less likely less good

32:32

day he does tend to stick the boot

32:34

in so you don't really know where he stands. I

32:38

think honestly the best opportunity for him

32:41

would be when Aston Martin links up

32:43

with Honda. Honda's batted

32:45

for him for a very long time and

32:47

if he keeps producing the goods then he

32:50

might have a shot there. If

32:52

they do eventually get rid of Stroll you

32:54

know something like let's say

32:56

if science goes there or somebody of that

32:58

caliber alongside Sonoda that would be a really

33:00

compelling driver line up. But

33:03

I'd like to see him in a Red Bull. I'd like to see him

33:05

give him a chance. Yeah and doing

33:07

it you know you're a Japanese driver he's doing it at

33:09

Suzuka or Honda track and you've got a V-Carb and Red

33:11

Bull and all the Honda links there so it's kind of

33:13

it's quite nice isn't it and if you want people

33:16

to take notice that's one way to do it. I just

33:18

want to touch on the on

33:20

the Yuki thing because he finished over

33:22

40 seconds behind Hamilton's Mercedes and the

33:24

lap off of Max. So

33:27

is it do you think a bad thing that we're

33:30

seeing such a big disparity between the top five teams

33:33

and the rest JBL? Yeah

33:37

honestly it's not great

33:39

it's not when

33:41

you go into a race weekend and you know probably

33:44

90% of the score who the scorers

33:46

are going to be it is

33:49

not a particularly sort of compelling reason to

33:51

watch and this is something I did

33:53

put to the drivers in Australia actually I was like

33:55

well you know that you're going

33:57

to go into a situation where somebody has to retire or

34:00

or Stroll has to have an off day for

34:02

you to score. How do you stay motivated? And

34:06

Valtteri Bottas suggested maybe bringing down the

34:08

points to P12 or something might spice

34:10

it up a little bit because

34:12

there's not really much glory for NQ12 at

34:14

the moment. But

34:16

the thing is, it might change next year and

34:18

that gap might be closed up. It

34:21

is, I think, artificially large because

34:23

Alpine has just started the season in such

34:25

a bad way, but it's

34:28

not great. It's not a particularly

34:30

good situation for,

34:32

I guess, for the fans of those teams as

34:34

well. You know, you like to have a little

34:36

bit of variance and variety in results and just

34:39

knowing who the top five teams are gonna be

34:41

every weekend. It's just not particularly

34:43

interesting. But hopefully,

34:45

you know, hopefully that will change. It's, you know,

34:48

F1's pretty dynamic when it needs to

34:50

be. Formula One's pretty good

34:52

at reinventing itself, JBL, and needs to

34:54

do something to maybe appeal

34:56

to the wider fan. I think those of us

34:58

that will watch it no matter what, they've got

35:00

us, haven't they? But those others that are maybe

35:02

sort of floating fans have gotta find some interest

35:05

elsewhere. Phil, let's move this

35:07

conversation slightly on, though, to the

35:10

tire choices that were available. And that was something that

35:12

Formula One has done in the Japanese Grand Prix. It

35:14

gave us a bit of opportunity

35:18

to see teams using alternative strategies as opposed

35:20

to the same strategy. So what are

35:22

your thoughts on the soft tire and the

35:24

approach that happened here in Japan? Well,

35:27

I think it just helps that it was a little bit

35:29

cooler than it was in September last year. So automatically,

35:32

the softest compounds become a bit

35:34

more viable for the race. So

35:36

that's something you can't really control

35:38

necessarily. And it remains

35:40

to be seen if you can replicate

35:42

these sort of three

35:44

tires being a good

35:47

option for the race that have a

35:49

sort of more demanding circuits. But obviously,

35:52

you know, if you have three compounds that

35:54

can all be used, then you've got way

35:56

more strategic options. And that

35:58

means you're going to see... a

36:01

better race by definition. You're going to see

36:04

people chance it on different strategies,

36:06

one-stop, two-stop, people

36:10

gambling on the sit-on

36:12

soft and see what happens. The

36:15

more variety you get there the better and

36:17

it's completely

36:20

deadly when you have like an

36:22

easy one-stop because that means that clearly

36:25

one strategy that's the best and everybody

36:27

will be on that and you see

36:29

nothing. So yes

36:32

it wasn't for the

36:34

lead today but we did see some

36:36

good battles and the

36:39

fact that the tyres were all usable were a

36:41

massive part in that. So

36:44

yeah that's good. Are

36:46

we going to see it a lot more?

36:48

Probably not in the likes of Miami but

36:51

maybe in China where there's a new asphalt

36:53

we have some unknowns so maybe it's possible

36:55

there as well where it's also going to

36:57

be cool. Yes

37:00

exciting that we got China coming up now first

37:02

time since 2019. Did

37:06

you both enjoy what

37:08

you saw in the Japanese Grand Prix JBL? I don't want you

37:10

to give it a rating out of 10

37:13

or anything like that but did you enjoy it because it was

37:15

one of those races that it's

37:17

a bit like an Indy car race where you don't quite

37:19

know what's going to happen till the end till everyone's sorted

37:22

out all the pit stops and you know what everyone's on.

37:24

It was intriguing at least. What do you think? Yeah

37:27

no I'd subscribe to that. Obviously

37:30

beyond the the top two it was all

37:32

it was pretty clear cut but behind

37:34

that yeah

37:36

it was you know everybody you know

37:38

people cycle out at different times the

37:41

undercut was very very powerful but it

37:43

couldn't necessarily be maintained throughout the race

37:45

so let's say when when Norris first

37:47

stopped he'd cycled out in

37:49

kind of a net third but

37:51

then his tie started to go

37:53

and you had the Ferraris coming up behind him you

37:56

had the Claire out front extending his

37:58

stints as well So that. Him

38:00

an extra that more in the pit stop basically.

38:02

Am. An enormous struck the fifth

38:05

so it was ready. Really interesting seeing

38:07

how everybody tackled a different name. I'm

38:09

still sad the last issued for different

38:11

trustees was was was really. Something.

38:14

That made the race I did enjoy it

38:16

was he acquired in the morning for beat

38:18

the kind of get my head around which

38:20

I think you know that maybe goods little

38:22

bit the brain teaser but yeah I'm I

38:24

think I did. To be honest with you.

38:27

Here. Same here with it all. Never

38:29

praise or a sweater. Zero jeopardy for

38:31

the win or even a top two

38:33

so all never give a high marks.

38:36

Spurts. Yard. Different sees the

38:38

ensure that there was always something to

38:40

watch for us yet been Norris on

38:42

the cats. Was I going to work

38:44

out that bitcoin and negate got negated

38:47

by him putting alongside the class? I'm

38:49

and then there were signs delaying sooner,

38:51

stop and then and I'm watching thirty

38:53

order at the end so there's always

38:55

something to watch serve. The fact that

38:58

the battle been on a rebel is

39:00

close to sort of saving grace I'm

39:02

but yeah it will never be our

39:04

a classic racists if this year. Know

39:07

died about the identity of the winner for

39:09

me. Not. A

39:11

classic but suddenly it was worth getting

39:13

up for. A you go Jbl i

39:15

think upper office, the thought process just

39:18

that's at now. Maybe funny away from

39:20

this but the gonna linking into the

39:22

Japanese Grand Prix. Just heading into the

39:24

weekend it was announced that the chief

39:27

designer David Sanchez, a Mclaren or. Formerly.

39:30

Of Mccown because he now leaving is

39:32

now see leaving for just three months.

39:34

Useful in in January wasn't it? which

39:36

is a bit strange. Both parties claimed

39:38

the role for David wasn't what either

39:40

of them were anticipating. So it's. What

39:43

the heck is happened. Internally.

39:46

At Mclaren fell. Whoop!

39:48

Or it's hard to see

39:50

him without question. But.

39:53

Of thing the main thing is that. You.

39:55

Have to remind keep in mind that

39:58

I get Sanchez signed up. well

40:00

over a year ago from Ferrari. So

40:02

I think the deal was done. Please

40:06

correct me if I'm wrong. I think it was February last year.

40:08

So it's over 12 months, 14 months ago. So

40:11

obviously since then a lot has changed. McLaren

40:16

have had this reorganization that Sanchez

40:18

was you

40:20

know cherry-picked to be a part of with triple

40:24

technical direct structure, but then

40:26

you know things move on. They

40:29

work without Sanchez for a year and you

40:33

know as Andrea Sellard took over I'm sure

40:35

he must have noticed how

40:38

it seems progressing and then when

40:40

Sanchez and Rob Marshall actually started in

40:42

January, maybe some

40:45

of what was agreed 14 months ago

40:47

has slightly shifted in terms of where they

40:51

fit in exactly and you know not

40:53

just that but also what's your responsibility

40:55

and what isn't your responsibility. And

40:58

it's perfectly possible for someone like Sanchez to

41:00

say like actually this isn't quite what

41:03

I signed up for is it doesn't quite my strength

41:06

to be in this sort of leadership

41:08

position or whatever it may be we don't know.

41:10

So it's unusual for

41:13

him to like depart after three months. It's

41:18

hard to say already but

41:21

it you can see that it's

41:23

really a very different structure to the

41:26

way he's used to working that maybe he's

41:28

noticed that actually this isn't really working for

41:30

me or for the team. And

41:33

you have to say well done to them if that

41:35

is the case it's not working out let's just pull

41:37

the plug on it before before it gets any

41:39

further on the process. We're looking

41:42

ahead at the Chinese Grand Prix the

41:44

first time since 2019 very quickly both

41:46

of you. What do you look forward

41:48

to? What do you look forward to?

41:50

That's interesting. English

41:52

is my first language how about that? What are

41:54

you both looking forward to the most JBL? Well,

41:59

I think And having sort

42:01

of just sort of have a brief

42:03

overview of what conditions to expect and

42:05

as Phil has already said it is

42:07

going to be relatively cold at this

42:10

time of year, new ash fart

42:12

as well. So the expected thing is there's going to be

42:14

quite a lot of graining like

42:16

there was in Australia. So that's something that if

42:18

Ripple still hasn't got on top of it that

42:21

could bring Fari back into it, that

42:23

could bring you know a couple of other teams sort of into the

42:25

mix so they can get their head around it. And

42:27

it's because it's a circuit we haven't been to since 2019. Data

42:30

for it is very, very

42:33

outdated. We've got nothing on it for

42:36

these 2022 cars and it's going to

42:38

be a sprint weekend. So everybody's

42:41

got to hope that there is not a

42:43

single blemish in practice because any

42:45

single red flag even for five minutes that's

42:47

going to throw so much data out of

42:49

the window. So we could have

42:52

a real topsy turvy weekend if one top

42:55

team doesn't you know hit it

42:57

quite right then it could

42:59

be really, really unpredictable. It might not be but

43:01

you know I like to live and hope. Yeah

43:05

it's interesting because there's also obviously a

43:07

different sprint format this year. So teams

43:09

will have longer before Park Fermi or

43:12

they have like a second Park Fermi

43:14

for you know for sprinting

43:16

and for qualifying for the race. So

43:18

it'll be interesting to see how they deal with that. As

43:21

you say, if you want it's going to be key so

43:23

you can't afford any sort of mistakes. Not

43:26

just like physical mistakes but also in terms of

43:28

your setup direction. You just don't have

43:30

any time to to

43:33

backtrack or to try and do something different. So

43:35

you have to be on it straight away. Which

43:38

could introduce some jeopardy. You could also argue

43:41

that well the best teams are more likely

43:43

to get their ducks in a row than

43:45

the others right because they have the best

43:47

resources. Also

43:50

possible but still there is a bit

43:52

of extra variance maybe that that's being

43:54

introduced. So as much as

43:56

I'm not really a fan of sprints in

43:58

general I think. the

44:00

lack of practice, you know,

44:02

it can introduce something new. So

44:07

we've seen that on a few occasions over the last

44:09

couple of years that some teams

44:11

just got it wrong and then they couldn't really recover

44:13

from that. And then, yeah, as

44:15

JBL said, it's not only have we not been

44:17

there for five years, it's also a new tarmac.

44:21

So it's really

44:24

a step into the unknown for a lot

44:26

of teams. But yeah, you

44:28

have to say that if

44:31

it is a race where graining is a

44:33

big issue, then if you

44:35

look at Australia as well, you would back

44:37

Ferrari to do better than they do on

44:39

sort of the high thermal degradation race like

44:42

here and like Bahrain. So maybe

44:44

Ferrari will fancy their chances actually. Well,

44:48

there you go. Maybe, but would it be Charlotte

44:50

Clark or will it be Carlos Sainz at fans

44:52

this charted even more? Gents, thank you so much.

44:54

That about wraps up for our meandering review of

44:57

the Japanese Grand Prix. We didn't get to any

44:59

cherry blossom or anything like that. I know JBL

45:01

was so disappointed. He didn't get to witness the

45:03

cherry blossom, but I don't want to open that

45:05

particular wound right now. That's for another day. Remember,

45:08

if you like what you heard on this podcast,

45:10

don't forget you can hit that follow button to

45:12

stay in the loop for all of our 2024

45:14

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45:17

well as our BTCC top 10 series

45:19

and Driven to Succeed, featuring the best

45:21

young up and coming talent in motorsport.

45:24

So we'll be back next week with

45:26

a preview when Formula One

45:28

returns to Shanghai and the first Chinese Grand

45:30

Prix since 2019. But

45:33

until then, thanks so much for listening. Lucky

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