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for details. Ask

1:25

me! Ask me if you're anything! So

1:33

Emily's not here today. You don't know Emily, but

1:36

you would hate her. I

1:38

like her already. Kate Bowler. It

1:40

is Bowler. Yeah, you got it. I was just like...

1:42

This is the friendship. Not Bowler.

1:44

The mom brain of like, sometimes I, in the

1:47

moment, will forget very close people to me, like

1:49

their names when I'm introducing them to people. And

1:51

I was just like, I know it's Bowler. There's

1:53

no reason for it to be Bowler. And we

1:55

are friends. And I'm just coming

1:58

clean. Kate Bowler is my friend. we

2:00

met at the Aspen Ideas Festival, where

2:02

she led like a Q and A with me

2:04

about mental health, a subject I'm only

2:06

abstractly qualified to talk about. You were

2:08

so good. You were so good, and

2:10

we were so funny together that

2:13

we were actually asked if we do birthday parties by

2:15

a very out of touch elderly woman who

2:18

was willing to pay more than I felt comfortable

2:20

with for what I was going to be able

2:22

to provide. And considering we did that event for

2:25

free, and in Aspen, I was like, this is,

2:27

we won't be able to deliver, but that's very cute

2:29

that you thought this was like a planned act. Nope,

2:31

we're both just that funny. And she has

2:34

pedigree. This is not just like, I had my friend

2:36

on, I think you think this was cool. She

2:38

is an associate professor of Christian history at

2:40

Duke Divinity School. I know, you're

2:42

like, well, Liza, you're Jewish. I'm like, but

2:44

I contain multitudes. Furthermore,

2:46

and she's, so you're a doctor, you have a PhD.

2:49

Yeah, I mean, yeah, not the real

2:52

kind, the kind where you just offer

2:54

unsolicited commentary on movies mostly. Have you

2:56

ever, like on a plane, they've been like, is

2:58

anyone a doctor? And you're like, well, define. You

3:02

need to know the history. Furthermore,

3:04

she is the author of four

3:07

New York Times bestselling books. We have

3:10

her most recent one, Have a

3:12

Beautiful, Terrible Day, Daily Meditations for the Ups and

3:14

Downs and In-Betweens. And of course you guys have probably, I

3:16

feel like my audience for this podcast

3:19

is a your kind of audience. You

3:21

have Everything Happens for a Reason, No Cure

3:23

for Being Human, Good Enough. And

3:27

I'm just in favor of like a wild mediocrity. That's

3:29

what I'm going for. Yeah, if

3:31

you feel like nothing is probably ever gonna,

3:33

if you're never gonna live your best life

3:36

now, and you wanna talk about it with

3:38

somebody else, and you hate, then there's someone specifically that

3:40

you hate that you think about that is living their

3:42

best life, then I love you. Then these are the

3:44

books for you. But I feel

3:46

like under that, you're an incredibly intelligent,

3:48

like, well, like the note

3:50

behind the note is you're like, live your best,

3:52

like feel shitty, but just know you're doing great.

3:55

Like it's not doom and gloom. These are very

3:57

uplifting. Steeping Christianity, but for the

3:59

masses. Thank you. Yeah. I'll

4:01

do my best to use my most inspirational voice

4:03

during our time together. I love it. You

4:06

are, you have a calming presence. I was saying my

4:08

daughter said hi to you and she doesn't say hi

4:10

to anyone that she doesn't know and she

4:12

was like, hi. And I was like, she's godly. Well,

4:14

she, you are godly. Your child

4:16

is mannered. Your baby is

4:18

incredibly well mannered, just stayed entirely

4:20

inert. Yep. Which is

4:22

probably the most polite position. Just laying

4:25

out, saying nothing submissively kind. Well,

4:27

he's just very tired. Because he lived with me for nine

4:29

months. You also have several other books

4:31

like The Preacher's Wife and Bless, A History of

4:34

the American Prosperity Gospel, which

4:36

I think when we had dinner, we talked

4:38

about all the preacher's wives, like all the

4:40

famous televangelist wives and how they really are

4:42

the backbones. They are. They are.

4:45

Soft power is real power. Soft power. Yeah.

4:48

I mean. Is that the man behind the woman? Is

4:50

that soft power? Yeah. It's, it's

4:52

influence, not institutional authority. So everywhere you look, you think

4:54

the person that's running the business

4:56

officially is in charge, but it's typically like,

4:59

I mean, it's our, and it's our market too. Who

5:01

I call my next comedy special,

5:04

soft power. I

5:06

would. I

5:08

would die a thousand deaths of happiness. I

5:10

see there it is again. You're like, it's a little dark, but it's

5:12

really uplift because in the end I'm happy. My

5:15

husband says I should call it after birth. And I

5:17

was like, it's gonna repulse anyone who gets the reference.

5:20

Um, but so. She's

5:27

also from Winnipeg as most of our

5:29

listeners are mostly

5:31

Canadian nurses. You

5:34

also send great gifts in the mail. Um,

5:37

and you have the intelligence and warmth of what I

5:39

would think I would like and say a pastor

5:41

if I were a Christian person. That's

5:43

nice. If you, if

5:46

you want a medium and appropriate. I

5:48

think that's the relatability. Sure. Cause

5:50

it makes you not, you're not holier than now. And

5:52

you're just like, look, you're going to get cancer. We

5:55

all do. She's

5:57

had cancer. We all do. I

5:59

mean. No, that's so true.

6:02

It's like what I say to people the next

6:04

day. I'm like, our bodies make mistakes. Yeah,

6:07

they just make mistakes. Even God makes mistakes. I shouldn't

6:09

have this. I feel that way about like me not

6:11

getting into the college as I like. I'm like the

6:13

Lord made a mistake. We fix it. And

6:16

your podcast is called Everything Happens. It's interviews with

6:19

people, famous people, regular people, acclaimed people

6:21

about hard times and what they got out of

6:23

it. I think you guys would love it and

6:26

it's available. Who's still asking

6:28

when where can I get? There

6:31

is. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

6:33

it's people who primarily use email

6:35

for communication. Right. So

6:38

older people, people in general, people

6:41

who write. So I

6:45

asked Emily, I was like, can you call

6:47

some good questions, some juicy questions? And I

6:50

went through these questions just to make sure everything

6:52

was appropriate for you. This

6:54

is a very juicy podcast. I'm

6:56

really excited about these questions. Oh,

6:58

yes. Sometimes we pull questions and I'm

7:00

like, just dump him next. Like, what are you guys

7:03

doing? All of these are good. And the

7:05

first one is actually specifically for you. Oh, hey. Yeah.

7:08

I have a question for Dr. Bowler. You're like, I met you in 1992. You

7:11

dismissed me in line. Hello,

7:15

Pod crew, cats, pups and sweet toddler and

7:17

new Chinese baby. My question. I live in

7:19

North Carolina. My 11 year

7:21

old daughter was invited to a Baptist

7:23

vacation Bible school, one where they said

7:25

man and dinosaurs walked on the earth together.

7:28

It's completely. I was so nervous. You were going to

7:30

be like, right? Yeah. I mean,

7:32

a thousand years ago, God carried them together.

7:36

This completely confused my child. And when she

7:38

asked questions, she got some bullying from other

7:40

kids. She now has such a

7:42

crisis of faith and doesn't know if she

7:44

even believes in God anymore. How

7:47

do I help her? We have sat down

7:49

with our priest, we're Catholic and a very

7:51

open and accepting church. I just wonder if

7:53

there's something I can do, a book or

7:55

some way to explain what that church believes,

7:57

how they got there and why does not

7:59

make. her relationship with God any different

8:03

that you can believe in science and God. Dr.

8:05

Bowler? Oh hey, well I guess

8:08

I mean it sounds like

8:10

like what a great mom just to say

8:12

we're gonna we're gonna also like sat down

8:14

with their priest means you're like hey all

8:17

the information you want to know about God in

8:19

the world is available to you smart kid.

8:22

Your questions are not I

8:24

think that's one of the difficult things

8:27

about those sometimes like intense spiritual

8:29

environments like summer camp or whatever is there

8:31

starts to be like a group think around

8:33

what questions are okay and then you start

8:35

to wonder if maybe if you ask a

8:37

different kind

8:40

of question. I

8:42

had that experience at my I

8:44

sat down this like six foot

8:46

five gentle giant named Merv who was my summer

8:48

camp director when I was 14 I was like

8:50

hi we're gonna have to go over

8:52

gender together. But what I learned

8:54

from that experience

9:02

was one it's pretty difficult to

9:04

change other people's minds but when

9:08

it comes to like the

9:10

kind of person you want to make your kid that

9:13

their curiosity is probably the most important

9:15

thing about them not just intellectually but

9:17

spiritually like science

9:20

and religion have joyfully

9:22

co-existed since to

9:24

be honest like since evolution was first floated

9:26

it was

9:29

predominantly accepted as a

9:31

Christian position it was only in

9:33

the 1920s that people started using

9:35

evolution primarily as a culture war

9:38

issue. They got introduced kind

9:40

of as a wedge issue so unfortunately

9:42

people kind of inherit this obstacle course

9:44

of what they feel like they have

9:47

to accept in order to be a

9:49

good Christian but in truth we've had

9:51

like a much wider range of acceptable

9:53

positions until we started being based on

9:55

the culture warriors. So I would

9:58

just say that that's an It's

10:01

an unfortunate glitch in the system,

10:04

but that the broader Christian tradition has so

10:06

much in it that has

10:09

made a joyful, complimentary

10:11

piece with evolution that it shouldn't.

10:14

And the more she reads, the happier she'll

10:17

be about it. I like that. So what do you tell

10:19

her? Do you do your own research? I know. Well,

10:22

I could only think of

10:24

unbelievably intense history books about it. I

10:27

would probably just say that anytime

10:29

someone says, well, the

10:32

war, that

10:34

science is in opposition to religion, that

10:37

view is only about 100 years old. And

10:39

it was... Is that an idea that came out of

10:41

Europe or came out of America? Well,

10:45

I mean, the ideas

10:48

were like, there's much more transatlantic

10:50

idea exchange the whole time, but

10:52

I would say that American culture

10:55

wars have really calcified around

10:57

this stuff. So it's kind of very,

10:59

very American to be like, there's five things you need

11:01

to know. Jesus

11:04

buried the dinosaur bones. And

11:08

unfortunately it's become like, I remember someone

11:11

in my family suddenly became a creationist,

11:13

like the earth was made 6,000 years

11:16

ago because they read an American hunting magazine. I

11:18

was like, no, no, we're Canadian. We don't have

11:20

to do this. You don't have to do this.

11:22

You don't have to do this. This is just

11:24

American culture wars. We just, we don't have to

11:26

do this. We don't have to do this. I

11:28

like the reward and the curiosity, like

11:30

that. That's like a very special thing. I

11:33

always like telling my kid, all

11:35

your questions are the good ones. And

11:37

the more, and frankly,

11:40

if you, the more spiritual or if you

11:42

become dumb or we have a problem. Yeah.

11:45

Yeah. I love that. I was so

11:47

glad. I'm like, I don't have the answer to that.

11:49

That's not seem hard. So we'll just

11:51

leave it with your answer. I thought we had

11:53

like more accessible history books in my brain. Sorry.

11:56

Nobody wants to hear that. I mean, just the fact that

11:58

you, the second you said like in the night. 1920s, I

12:00

was like, and that's her answer is the good one.

12:03

She cited a date and the source

12:06

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12:13

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12:16

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12:18

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12:20

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16:04

I'm 41. Male. I

16:07

live in Idaho. I work in

16:09

a relatively small office with about 20 people. There

16:12

are only four men working in the

16:14

office. My dilemma. One

16:17

of the other guys in the office

16:19

refuses to flush the toilet. After he

16:23

is done. Regardless if he's taking a

16:25

pee or dropping a D. No.

16:27

When I confronted him about it. Good

16:30

for you. Yeah. He

16:32

said it's a waste of water to flush the toilet and

16:34

that you can get at least one more use

16:36

quote unquote out of the toilet water

16:38

before flushing it. I'm all

16:41

for saving our Earth resources and being

16:43

ecologically responsible. But I draw the line

16:45

on this. What would you say

16:47

to somebody like this or who really is practicing

16:49

what they preach but it's gross as fuck. Thank

16:52

you. And you can use my first name. Kim. Yeah.

16:56

Because I was hoping it's so workable here. Oh

16:58

my gosh. That's

17:00

so upsetting. Yeah.

17:03

I've had experiences with groups that

17:05

have a strong water

17:07

conservation as policy. It never went that far.

17:10

You work at like Home Depot. Like there's

17:12

no reason this guy doesn't have to be

17:14

Captain Planet. Yeah. Well and

17:16

it's and primarily about the environment. It's not about

17:18

the cost because you could pay him 25 cents

17:21

every time you flush the toilet. The

17:24

owner of the business. No no no it doesn't sound

17:26

like. Yeah. I think he's just

17:28

like I'm trying to save the planet. Let

17:31

me only because I have some experience with

17:33

clogged toilets. When

17:35

you leave toilet paper like when you

17:37

don't flush the toilet

17:39

paper breaks down and it can actually

17:42

clog the pipes. It's actually

17:44

bad for your toilet which is weird.

17:46

You think like oh if the toilet paper sort of

17:48

disintegrates no. So then

17:50

it will end up costing time and resources

17:52

and your toilet maybe will start to run

17:54

like it will cause problems. You

17:57

know you're going to be hurting someone or something. On

17:59

top of the fact. This is

18:01

like really hurting their relationship

18:04

and a sense of decency Because

18:07

it's also like what's this power power

18:09

trip, please look at my shit Look

18:12

at it. It's very primal over there. Yeah,

18:14

like why don't you shit on someone's desk

18:16

and just conserve water altogether? So

18:19

he's like, what do I say? I'm like Yeah,

18:23

that's a that's so uncomfortable other than you're

18:25

the grossest person I'm aware of but I

18:27

mean I I've

18:29

had these I've had these are I've

18:32

had these arguments about pee

18:34

before with Family members

18:36

where I'm like, this is actually not

18:38

good for either of us for me to

18:41

feel stressed every time I enter a bathroom

18:43

Yeah, like I'm entering into a time of

18:45

discovery and that what I'm gonna learn about

18:47

you I don't want to learn I

18:49

can't I can't I can't unlearn. That's

18:51

true I can't unlearn what you have like

18:53

you've given me too much information about who

18:56

you are and now we can't Level

18:58

a playing field again him lucky for you You're a

19:01

man so people will take you seriously and you're not

19:03

gonna get called a bitch for not wanting to look

19:05

at someone's turds I say you march

19:07

right up to him when he's sitting in his f-150

19:11

Having you know having a snack break vaping

19:13

and you're just like you're just like

19:15

Roy. You've got to flush

19:17

your shit. It's illegal Yeah,

19:20

you're breaking and also that's good. That's

19:22

a good argument Also,

19:24

if you want to get petty with him You could

19:26

start citing all the things that he does that are

19:28

not Environmentally sound cuz I guarantee you this guy does

19:30

not have it all buttoned up Also,

19:32

that really does sound like bullying you could say

19:34

that you're gonna report him to HR Yeah, like

19:36

what is he a gorilla like just like leaving

19:39

your droppings? Yeah Relatively

19:41

small office you have a boss you can talk to

19:43

I mean there's never underestimate the power of public shaming

19:47

You can just constantly write sounds and signs of like

19:49

I know it was you yeah in

19:52

shit on the hood of His car and

19:54

just be like what no water was wasted

19:56

here And I

19:58

walked to work to get some

20:00

of the anxiety. I don't know. It's

20:03

also a workplace environment that I feel sad

20:05

for Tim. I

20:07

feel like he is trying his best to just

20:10

get through the day. It's Idaho's.

20:12

We probably have a ton of job options. There's

20:16

a lot of, oh my

20:18

gosh, poor Idaho. I always ask non-stop potato-related

20:20

questions every time I meet someone from

20:22

Idaho. You've been to Idaho? I haven't. It's

20:25

gorgeous. I had

20:27

the privilege of playing Boise for the first time. It's

20:30

all me and Hunter, who's my opener, talk about is

20:32

how can we get back to Idaho? Those

20:34

dates are coming up. It's like secretly

20:36

one of the fastest growing cities in America. Oh. They

20:39

don't want you to know that because it's a

20:41

little prior from my cold dead hands, but aside

20:43

from that, it's gorgeous. Well, Tim, help's coming.

20:46

Better people are going to move to your general

20:48

area. Yeah. They're going to do worse things

20:50

because they'll be coming from grosser cities. Okay.

20:53

I almost didn't read this one because I

20:55

was like, it's almost a brain

20:57

teaser. You have to track it. Okay. You're

20:59

like, I have a PhD. I can do it. I'm

21:03

already doubtful. It's just good. Okay. Here we go. My

21:06

30 sister, Kyla's.

21:11

Okay. So the sister is named Kyla. Maybe

21:14

this person's there. Okay. These ages don't matter. These people are

21:16

28 and 30-ish. Okay. Lay 20s. Love

21:19

it. There we go. My

21:21

sister, Kyla's childhood best friend,

21:23

Dan, 28, and new

21:25

girlfriend of about a year, Julia,

21:29

set unreasonable and hurtful boundaries.

21:33

It all stemmed from a concert a group of us

21:35

were at a few months ago where it came to

21:37

light that Dan. So this is

21:40

my sister, Kyla's childhood best friend, Dan.

21:42

This is your sister's best friend. Okay. It

21:46

all came to light that Dan and I had

21:48

a drunken one-night stand close to

21:50

10 years ago. Julia,

21:52

who's the girlfriend, didn't know this

21:54

and they basically went on and then,

21:57

and they and Julia Basically went off on her

21:59

own. the rest. The the concerts we don't

22:01

see each other very much but. Do has

22:03

the same circle of friends. And.

22:06

Data Julia Are we getting invited to game nights?

22:08

Brunches and parties, As Kyle and

22:10

I host. A few throughout the year. Got it? He

22:12

up? Louis. Don't.

22:14

I feel like a fool when Tyler. You.

22:17

Just sister. Comes. Home after

22:19

gilding day in and getting a coffee

22:21

after months of blown off Plans to

22:23

explain the recently haven't seen them is

22:26

because Julia the girlfriend seats me and

22:28

decided to never be in a setting

22:30

where I am and told them boyfriend

22:32

she doesn't want him around me either.

22:34

The big issue. Dan. And

22:36

I are in my sister close wedding party.

22:39

In a few months and now she's

22:41

super stressed about any drama that might.

22:43

Arise since it will involve Dan being in

22:45

the same space as me. basically all day.

22:47

I tried to talk to Julia to apologize

22:49

for how I'd made her feel uncomfortable and

22:51

it was never my intention, but she told

22:53

them that she wouldn't even be in the

22:55

same room as me. so her mind is

22:58

made up. Kayla. Might.

23:00

Be Kayla. Is

23:02

now uninviting. Julia My God.

23:05

Carla. The sister is now uninviting Julia

23:07

from The Wedding Boy, and he's considering

23:09

replacing Dan. Her childhood best friend. By the way,

23:12

I'm the only one that needs these like Ninety

23:14

Reminders assists. In the wedding party and just inviting

23:16

him alone as a guest but doesn't want to

23:18

regret not having them as a been best. Friends

23:20

since kindergarten. A few extra notes.

23:23

Now normally I'm like it's too much context, but

23:25

I do. They we of us. Julia.

23:28

The. Girlfriend made a social media posts

23:30

about having a hard time making girlfriends

23:33

when she moved with dance and when

23:35

I saw it despite being. It was

23:37

a spite of cringes how I told

23:39

my girlfriend groups. That we should plan

23:41

and night out with earth and get to

23:43

know her better. That never happened because I

23:45

sat out. the girls just want to steal

23:47

my boyfriend post was about me. Even

23:51

though I have never tried, I was in

23:53

a happy relationship. For almost the entire time I

23:55

knew her. She said I'm a lesser version

23:57

of her and need therapy. because her therapy quote

23:59

unquote her issues. I spoke with

24:01

the other friends in the group to see if I was out of line or

24:06

something that would justify such a strong reaction

24:08

and they expressed that I've always been a

24:10

good friend and they do not like her as

24:12

she is isolating Dan from them as well. Kayla

24:15

also asked Dan how he would feel

24:17

the tables were flipped and her fiancé

24:19

hated Dan's brother. He

24:21

just said I don't know and got teary

24:23

about it. That is Dan's

24:25

first real adult relationship so to him he's head

24:28

over heels blindly in love with her. This is

24:30

also bringing up a lot of feelings from when

24:32

I was young and I got bullied and excluded

24:34

by the girls in my middle school. So this

24:36

is a really low feeling considering I thought she

24:38

and I would be friends when they started dating

24:40

because we have a lot of the same interests.

24:43

I don't know what advice I'm looking for.

24:45

Kayla misses her best friend and the group

24:47

is basically being forced to choose if they

24:49

want to see me or them at

24:52

gatherings because Dan and Julia won't come. You

24:56

have to learn how to use commas. Julia

24:58

won't come if I'm there which

25:00

makes everyone uncomfortable. I want Kyle

25:03

to not be so stressed about her wedding

25:05

party. Is there even any way to save

25:07

their friendship? Oh boy.

25:09

Yeah and

25:12

that sounds like that was a lot of

25:14

emotional fact finding to figure out how much

25:17

Julia hated her which is also really painful.

25:19

Sounds like she did a lot of chasing.

25:21

Like I don't hear any bit of that

25:23

word Dan was like hey

25:25

thank you just check in just

25:28

wondering about our relationship. Doesn't

25:31

really sound like Dan's

25:34

really the only person I think with a

25:36

responsibility to try. Thank you because

25:39

I was like I'm not gonna jump in we'll let Kate

25:41

go and then I'll swoop in with my hot take and

25:43

then you stole my thunder you stole my heat because that's

25:46

the take that's exactly what it

25:48

is because it does

25:50

I'm a very sensitive person I always feel

25:52

so sad if there's some kind of thing

25:55

between me and somebody else but like I don't

25:57

think there's been already so much energy spent. on

26:00

that that just mostly was wounding for

26:02

probably a reason that will go

26:05

away in the end which is

26:07

that somebody like that it's

26:09

just very hard to keep around in the long term

26:12

with that girlfriend. Yeah the girlfriend is not

26:14

gonna be around. No. So I

26:16

tell a lot of my listeners I'm like

26:18

in three years this person won't be he

26:20

will get tired of how clingy she is.

26:22

Yeah. He's the problem. Yeah or

26:24

he'll become a person that you just which he kind

26:26

of is being right now is someone you don't even

26:28

really want. Also I have okay

26:30

first of all he is not being

26:33

a man in this situation. It's okay

26:35

to cherish your girlfriend. You

26:38

know if you have like a wife like obviously you pick her

26:40

over everyone else but to

26:43

not stand up for yourself or

26:45

anything or even rationally the

26:48

fact that you never told your girlfriend by

26:50

the way this girl we're spending a lot

26:52

of time with is someone I slept with. Yeah.

26:55

That's disrespectful to the girlfriend who already is

26:57

insecure. Yeah. And based on the way this

26:59

sounds even though I think I butchered it

27:02

as I was reading it moved to a

27:04

city to be with him. So she's already

27:06

vulnerable. She already and probably does have

27:08

trouble making friends with girls. I find that girls that

27:10

say that kind of don't like your

27:12

kind of the problem like here this girl's

27:14

like I wanted to invite her out

27:16

but she feels betrayed and that's Dan's

27:18

fault. Uh-huh. Cards on

27:20

the table just you know we slept together ten years ago it's

27:22

not a big deal because

27:25

you're making a jackass out of her now she's

27:27

like she feels like you've kept that from her.

27:29

And now everybody feels stupid except Dan. Dan

27:31

who's just like crying oh it's my girlfriend it's

27:33

his fault. And his relationship with his

27:35

childhood best friend those are really precious.

27:37

You know someone your whole life? Yep.

27:39

In some very well-documented ages at least

27:42

28 through 30 years. I'm like

27:44

that's a really long time to know

27:46

somebody. What I would want from a

27:48

Dan in my life is like hey

27:50

this is so awkward. The girlfriend feels

27:52

really uncomfortable in this situation. We're

27:54

gonna have to figure out a different way to

27:57

be friends in the near

27:59

whatever. that he made. Yes.

28:01

Supposedly just running around quietly

28:03

with other people and not bringing them

28:05

anymore. But also by not

28:07

telling by not divulging that fact you make

28:10

it Dan makes it like he has

28:12

feelings because why hide it. Yeah. When I met

28:15

my husband I'm like oh here like it's

28:17

not about like you know coming clean it's just

28:19

like here's just things that you should know or

28:21

if we're going to think just know that I went on a date

28:23

with that guy. It's just

28:25

a courteous thing to do.

28:27

Yeah. And especially it'd

28:29

be one you don't have to if you're just gonna

28:32

see someone randomly like who cares but you're gonna be

28:34

spending all this time together. Yeah. He fucked

28:36

up and also what does it say about him that

28:38

he's willing to hank this relationship

28:42

this friendship. I think that's

28:44

one of those he sounds so non-confrontational

28:46

where people just kind of it's it's

28:49

death by a thousand small losses where they

28:52

think they're they're being self protective they

28:54

don't stand up at the right time and then

28:56

they just hemorrhage loss after loss and

28:58

like now there's not a lot left for

29:00

anybody which is so sad. I

29:03

think she should leave the wedding thing alone

29:05

like the girlfriend can kind of sell

29:08

she can take herself out of that situation. She doesn't

29:10

need to go to this wedding. Yeah. But like it's

29:13

really stressful to uninvite how do you

29:15

uninvite somebody? Yeah. Do you have a

29:17

sir or ma'am? How's that gonna go?

29:19

Please uncircle chicken or fish. Yes

29:22

you're saying I don't know what advice I want.

29:24

First of all you should definitely be going to

29:27

the wedding. Yeah. Dan should be invited and give

29:29

her the option to grow the fuck up and

29:31

either come or not come because her issue is

29:33

with Dan not with you. That's good. Right? Yeah

29:35

that's right. And friend loss is real loss and

29:37

it feels weird because we don't really know how

29:40

to name the fact that we we

29:42

have a certain kind of grief related to stuff we

29:44

find hard to describe. It sounds

29:47

like she really like there's

29:49

so much love there but it's just all being

29:51

sexualized in one way and now it's a mess.

29:54

Yeah. And you feel vulnerable because you're like I

29:56

tried to like take this girl out and everybody really

30:00

bad, try doing a come to Jesus, because

30:02

the ball's gonna be in her court of like, can

30:04

you get over it? And can he apologize appropriately to

30:07

everyone? Yeah. Because you didn't do

30:09

anything wrong. I just behave normally, gosh. But I

30:11

also weirdly feel bad for the girlfriend who's like, oh,

30:13

did I just walk into like a weird family fuck

30:15

fest? Like you guys slept together and now we're

30:17

still friends and you didn't tell me? I'd be

30:19

annoyed too, even though she sounds awful.

30:21

She has a right to be annoyed. Yeah,

30:24

yeah, right. Terrible surprise and she

30:26

feels dumb. And if

30:29

he ends up with this girl, like some men just commit themselves

30:31

to a life with like lame girls. And like, you're gonna

30:33

have to let him do that. And just

30:35

like accidentally have kids that you kind of don't want.

30:37

And then just like be unhappy. It's

30:40

always like these lame guys that are like, good gosh,

30:42

it's whatever she wants. And you're like, fine, enjoy

30:45

your fucking life. I like how

30:47

quickly that spiraled. Oh yeah. You're like, and

30:49

then he enjoys the cult. And then he digs a bomb

30:51

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That's ELIZA at hero.co. This

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is a little bit later. How

33:18

much effort do I need to put? A lot

33:20

of these are about women against women. How

33:22

much effort do I need to put into giving

33:25

my ex-husband's brother,

33:28

so your ex-brother-in-law's pregnant

33:30

girlfriend, her baby gifts?

33:34

Context, I bought these gifts for my

33:36

ex-husband's brother's girlfriend before I asked for

33:38

the divorce from my husband about a month ago.

33:40

Let's call her A and

33:42

my husband's brother J. I

33:45

set up a time and a place to give A,

33:47

the girl, the girlfriend, the gifts and

33:49

she didn't show. I reached

33:52

out again to try to set up

33:54

a replacement plan but never heard back.

33:57

I can't give them to my husband because he's staying on

33:59

his break. grandmother's property, which

34:02

A is not allowed on because she met

34:04

Jay through his cousin M who A was engaged.

34:06

This has got to be a joke. Are

34:09

you spelling out something? Are you spelling

34:11

out a message? Like help me.

34:15

Cousin who and was engaged in the times but sleeping

34:18

with Jay. Okay, so it's a super

34:20

big, trashy mix up trashy pretzel

34:23

knot. Basically, you can't give him

34:25

to the ex husband. So my ex husband wouldn't be

34:27

able to give her the gifts either, because

34:29

he doesn't have a car. And she can't

34:31

go to him. No, there's Uber, heavily

34:33

in rural Missouri. Now, how many

34:36

more times should I reach out to

34:38

her before I just give the gifts to

34:40

someone else with a baby? No, no, don't.

34:42

What? You're a zero zero. We're done. That

34:44

is it's so weird. Oh,

34:46

this impulse to be the

34:49

person who tries. And then

34:51

like after like way after

34:53

there's any like nobody

34:55

cares. Yeah. I mean, it's

34:57

like now, you went to the effort. And

35:00

now it's just loss after loss. So

35:02

like, no, you just have to tell

35:04

yourself, you're the kind of person who

35:06

bought a gift for somebody's sister,

35:09

regardless of how important that relationship was.

35:11

And now either have

35:13

a different baby and use that present yourself. Have

35:16

a better way is that takeaway. That's

35:18

right. By any means. Yeah. And a

35:20

different baby like that I specified that each baby has

35:22

to be as their own gift. Yeah,

35:26

I guess you raise an interesting issue

35:28

like what is it in you for better for

35:30

worse that feels is this a way to keep

35:32

the ex husband close? Is this

35:34

a way to look good? Are you just a good person

35:36

and you just want to give us a little baby a

35:38

present? Like, we're

35:41

all just dying of being good people. Just

35:44

running around signing up for errands.

35:46

And then there's I like to sometimes like

35:48

pinpoint the or source idea of when I

35:51

thought I was being nice. And then wow,

35:53

that got away from me. And then I'm

35:55

like, hand errands in to an original like,

35:57

Hey, I should do this. Why?

36:00

Who? Who am

36:02

I? Can I

36:04

still be myself if I just stop doing this work?

36:06

You doing errands for people? Oh, I just, I

36:08

find, I'm like, it's very, if you give a

36:11

mouse a cookie, it just gets out of hand.

36:14

Oh, see, I'm that mouse. You're

36:16

the one giving the cookies. You actually even

36:18

brought me peanut butter brittle. Oh, no, that's

36:20

different. I have

36:22

an overwhelming love of sarcasm and

36:25

gift giving. I find it's more

36:27

like a Laura shirt. The shirt is

36:29

slightly, I should get it tailored. Where's the

36:31

tailor? Is the tailor across town? It's only

36:33

available two to four. And I never circle

36:35

around to being like, did

36:37

I like that shirt? Another first place. Not

36:39

enough to like section off a

36:41

day. Yeah, because it's a right move thing.

36:43

Vital errands that I've now. So

36:46

really just, I find errands just like fall

36:48

downhill and then collect. You're

36:50

just a huge snowball by the end. Okay.

36:54

And this, especially when it's related to a

36:56

story you have about yourself, there's

36:58

no way to limit yourself from doing it. What's

37:01

that again? Well, like, she

37:04

wants to be a good person. Especially when

37:06

it's related to like a primary story we have about ourselves,

37:08

I'm the kind of person who, then

37:10

it's really hard to stop yourself. Where are you trying to

37:12

prove yourself that you're not that kind of person? So you're like, I will

37:14

get a gift because I'm not a piece of shit. That

37:17

is a very good argument. I'm

37:19

just, I mean, I'm just positive, but

37:21

also, then I don't hate my ex-husband.

37:24

Why can't he give the gift? First of all, men can't be

37:26

trusted with baby gifts. And it'll get stuck in

37:28

the trunk of his non-existent car. Something's

37:32

up. Something's up. I'm just telling you so

37:34

you can hear me. L, something's

37:37

up with you and this ex-husband, I think. It's

37:40

good. You want to look good, you're getting a divorce. You want

37:42

to look like a good person. Your high-roading has now

37:44

led to this baby gift debacle. If that

37:46

isn't, just cut out these people. Just in

37:48

that story that turned out to be

37:51

an acronym with A and J and M, the

37:53

alphabet soup story, no. But

37:57

I am the mouse. Interview your massive cookie. Like,

37:59

if you invite... me over I'll be like can I look

38:01

in your medicine cabinet can I have a sweater do

38:04

you snacks okay which is not the take away

38:06

from the book I have a close friend who

38:12

is okay I feel like you are uniquely positioned to this

38:14

having nothing to do with the actual details

38:16

but more the compassion I know

38:19

there's there's how many how many sexy

38:21

love triangles are we gonna get to in the middle

38:23

this one's not sexy at all this one's about full

38:27

all right I have a close friend who started renting out

38:30

a room in her home she lives in a popular

38:32

tourist destination I stayed with her for four days

38:34

while in town for work and there were a

38:36

few pros like being in a close friend's home

38:38

which makes things more comfortable it's cheaper it's in

38:40

a neighborhood I love however there's one issue that

38:42

makes all the pros not worth it the

38:44

house is filthy years of

38:47

grime on all services items shoved into

38:49

every service imaginable which means things

38:51

falling all around the house constantly dried

38:53

cat pee on the floors dried

38:56

cat poop in the pay-to-rent guest

38:58

room worse

39:00

than turd in the toilet cat

39:03

hair on literally any service you may wish

39:05

to sit on I'm not a clean snob

39:07

I know a lot of people live in

39:09

years live for years in grimy environments due

39:11

to mental health reasons or just not knowing

39:13

how to clean but the cat pee and

39:15

poop really make it unbearable what's worse is

39:17

she bragged to me about a spring deep

39:19

clean before my arrival she's

39:21

hoping to make income from this room and I

39:24

struggle to see that happening I was supposed to

39:26

stay with her next month but have already texted

39:28

her that it's no longer my plan how would

39:30

you Kate kindly communicate she didn't

39:32

say Kate but I don't want to answer

39:34

this how would you kindly communicate to someone

39:36

the issue if at all would you

39:38

say something or let guests not returning ultimately

39:41

clue her in I want to be a good friend and

39:43

let her know it's a problem but also how

39:45

exactly do you tell someone their home was filthy oh

39:49

and they're good friends and not that she actually wants to stay

39:51

with her yeah they're good

39:53

friends and

39:56

she really doesn't know I think

39:58

sometimes You go like nose blind. My

40:00

house is very clean as you seen

40:02

covered in dodger. Let. It's everywhere

40:04

know yeah her sick white superior chinese dog

40:07

hair is really for asked is because it's

40:09

wearing oh this is where our daughter yeah

40:11

it's it's you go to freak out or

40:13

such generating and I don't realize how much

40:15

I mean it's not discussing but like. It's.

40:18

in my bed and like I don't really

40:20

care or notice it but I'm sure someone

40:22

who was like allergic to dogs would and

40:25

I dealing with cat owner sometimes you don't

40:27

realize that I have a here forever. One

40:29

dives this I'm very nice librarian was like

40:31

hey man says i have a very sick

40:34

at the time with cancer and she's like

40:36

i do this like healing therapy thing as

40:38

is very chill as a couple lox my

40:40

house I will be so nice omelet. Okay,

40:43

up for some reason I was in a position

40:45

where I just said yes to everything and she

40:47

wanted to help me. What is That was the

40:49

thing and I was it. It sucks that address.

40:53

The house I was like oh no, you're

40:55

the closest person that I know who I've

40:57

been working with Low this many years. Yeah,

40:59

let's see I was he able Id like

41:02

to the naked eye it seemed like it

41:04

was okay but just two minutes in it

41:06

was so it was the cat smell everywhere

41:08

in every surface I own and in the

41:11

hard was like no, it's okay, I'll just.

41:13

Leave with lung cancer and serene I'd

41:15

rather use them for. You can keep

41:17

your energy healing. So I and she

41:19

she would not have known as I'm

41:21

picturing this lovely sleep or job and

41:24

theme of this question. some your eight,

41:26

some people genuinely don't know. It.

41:30

Does it's? I

41:32

am a person who. Would.

41:34

In a lightly joking way. Or.

41:36

How would make a joke? I would test it. I.

41:39

Believe or I'd be like. Ah

41:42

sad feel like. I

41:45

would mainly Darnley Ice ice is so great

41:47

is the front of press release. I don't

41:50

know your lack of the use of but

41:52

I'm like oh I wouldn't make a joke

41:54

so I'm like Tyler Year. Know I

41:56

think they reduce the legs. Oh.

41:59

Nothing sir. The cat lady of have I

42:01

would reach for it a little. That I was

42:03

right were only. Because. I

42:05

would wanna see if they think it's at all

42:08

like. In the in the atmosphere or

42:10

a do you think this is of

42:12

actor. Eyes.

42:15

as he so tempted to tell a friend. Or

42:19

unless you have a history where they

42:21

just don't accept. last movie, The Susceptible

42:23

To History The Confrontation yeah some friends.

42:26

I. Don't know I there are definitely people

42:28

my life from like this person. Can not

42:31

take feedback like you cannot. So I

42:33

it doesn't affect me. Whether they take the

42:35

advice or not. so. I just say nothing. What is

42:37

it was like. Either. Just make

42:39

it about allergies. I neither was like

42:42

not be like hey friends a terribly

42:44

long time but it turns out if

42:46

you're gross. And it's

42:48

demonstrable. And ah it's

42:51

now barrier to public safety though

42:53

it's only now route you could

42:55

be like I find that I

42:57

laid on lays the developing allergies.

43:00

Is. There blah blah was she already

43:02

isn't. Going to her house so

43:04

it's were to call back milk.

43:06

also I wrote about.com. Ing. I

43:09

also felix would be list had allergies and

43:11

you have a cat tend to get annoyed

43:14

at people like there is nothing like. When

43:16

you got the and someone like I have a shellfish our

43:18

job is. Like when you don't have

43:20

the saying the. Other it's of gluten

43:22

or whatever. were so overrun by people

43:24

with their excuses in our society that

43:26

when someone genuinely has it, we have

43:28

like no space for learned, so true

43:30

or your nut allergies. Sir

43:33

you're going go into shock. Yeah I knew that

43:35

my best friend was my best friend because she

43:37

she in her move. She had a choice of

43:40

whether to bring her cat or let the cat

43:42

the with her parents she didn't bring the cat

43:44

because I'm allergic. Oh wow that was like oh

43:46

I guess we're dying together. Yeah.

43:48

We're going to do interlaced fingers send

43:50

a kidney. Share of my were in

43:52

were compromised. I will do want us

43:54

there was more moved by that. Wow.

43:57

and neither are you living together known as

43:59

that in our house like every five

44:01

to ten minutes. Okay, okay. And

44:03

she just knew. She

44:05

knew. I can't. I mean, okay, look,

44:08

I don't want to lose half my followers here. I

44:12

think it depends on how close you

44:14

are as a friend. And I also think deep down,

44:16

are you telling her this because you really want her

44:18

to make money on this and you really root for her?

44:21

Or is there a part of you that's like so

44:23

fucking gross and it's going to feel good to make

44:25

you feel like a little bit bad about this. So

44:28

where is it truthfully coming from? Dig deep. Make

44:31

sure it's not holier than now because I can't tell you mine wouldn't

44:33

be like by the way, I need you to admit your gross. Dig

44:35

deep. It will affect you not

44:38

at all because you're never staying

44:40

there again, unless you do go there

44:42

often and she will

44:44

learn that when people start leaving

44:46

shitty reviews. Yeah, it's it's

44:48

just whether the confrontation is with you or with a

44:50

stranger. Yeah, and I think going back to what you

44:53

said about people who receive

44:55

feedback. If you have no reason to think she won't

44:57

you can there's no reason for her to be mad at you. If you're like

44:59

I have to tell you I know you did a deep

45:01

clean. I just think there are

45:03

some other things like as your friend because you

45:05

if she really thought about you stand to gain

45:07

nothing from telling her this like you're not trying

45:09

to make her feel bad. Yeah. Where are you?

45:13

Where are you? So it's really just will it

45:15

cost you more like is it worth it? Yeah,

45:18

I guess I do like the idea though like either

45:20

way if you're coming at it in a place of

45:22

love where it's either going to be from

45:24

you if she can hear it or

45:27

it'll be from a stranger. And she'll

45:29

hear it anyway, and then you just have to be

45:31

the person who's like going

45:34

to put down the shiv and be like, yeah,

45:36

it's so weird that you've got that information. So

45:38

but then she's gonna be like, is that true?

45:40

Why didn't you say anything? Yeah, I'd be like

45:42

it's weird, but I actually have all these dire entries

45:44

and I wrote into a podcast just

45:47

listen to the podcast. I

45:50

think you telling her this it's a

45:52

litmus test of your relationship to see how

45:55

she receives the information. So really, yeah, she's

45:58

auditioning to be your friend. Oh

46:00

I guess I do think that having a. Track record

46:02

of being able to tell someone something hard

46:04

is probably the greatest to like. refining of

46:07

a friendship yeah the here uncomfortable things from

46:09

each other said that you're just like adding

46:11

years to live right? click to life. There

46:13

are versions where it like I definitely have

46:15

friends were it's like you can not give

46:17

that feet like they are. They become like

46:20

weirdly violence so I just don't Animal you

46:22

can bargain for yourself but will still be

46:24

friends because you made it really uncomfortable for

46:26

me to tell you the truth Yeah are.

46:28

You told a version of time before. That.

46:31

Yeah. But. You know deep down

46:33

as she can hear it to said

46:35

yeah. Happy there

46:37

were from the only guy

46:39

why some in both witches

46:41

and poisons. It it's.

46:44

All the traps, all the children in the

46:46

urine. Yeah. What's

46:48

worse, not flushing your poop or leaving your

46:51

p as a cat everywhere? Kids

46:54

are really think about this side. Usually the

46:56

poop was super brother those are you use.

46:59

It. As a courts him to a

47:01

sense of a. Nice. Damn for ten. Years.

47:04

And I don't Always. I am. Yeah. More now

47:06

I've learned to play them and ago he got ago

47:08

does not to that one as you be just. That

47:11

is back with a location. Recently to wear

47:13

your his may eighteen freshly eighteen

47:15

year old. People. Love Ages

47:17

On the side of this is from.

47:20

Years of me breeding them that I they are

47:22

not specific with the questions and I don't get

47:24

enough context. and now it's spelled it is that

47:26

you might have a. Say. The

47:28

nicest, most rule abiding

47:30

listeners as Canadians. Their

47:33

Canadian and their Australian and they're from places

47:35

like Minnesota the and it's just nice

47:37

for the most part of nice people who

47:39

have shitty friends in their weddings. Might

47:43

a lot of nurses. Who tend to

47:45

be help? or yeah, oh, my eighteen,

47:47

freshly eighteen year old who's a senior

47:49

in high school and he will be

47:51

going away to college the summer. recently

47:53

told me she lost. Her virginity and

47:55

nature of this seem to be casual and

47:57

I'm disappointed because it has so many com.

48:00

conversations about self-worth and values. I'm

48:02

struggling on how to help guide

48:04

her more as she prepares to leave for

48:06

school soon. How do I balance challenging her

48:09

to think more about her values while still

48:11

showing support, although I'm frustrated with this recent

48:13

choice to engage in casual sex? Thank

48:15

you so much in advance for creating the space for

48:17

parents. And

48:20

I can't tell what the

48:22

values are, like was there a value system in

48:24

the home that that kind of maybe naturally

48:29

broke that rule? Or like was there a rule in

48:31

the first place? I don't know.

48:33

I think maybe in the way the daughter

48:35

described it, she just made it sound super

48:37

casual, which could have been her like not wanting to

48:39

get into it with you. Like sometimes

48:41

maybe the guy like wasn't into her so

48:44

she's like, oh it was no big deal, but it

48:46

did break her heart. Or maybe it just was like

48:48

shitty sex. And it lasted

48:50

for like 15 seconds, which is a while.

48:53

And it just didn't mean as

48:56

much as you would have hoped it would have meant. It's

48:59

hard to tell. Yeah, it's so funny too. There's

49:01

so many people I know who have these like,

49:04

like a really lovely sense of self-worth

49:07

and all these kinds of things you would hope for

49:09

like an adult woman. And when they

49:11

described her for a sexual encounter, it was like, eh. And

49:14

they it was like just full shrug. Like I

49:16

would have thought it'd be like, you're expressing who

49:18

you are with your body. And then

49:20

I get very like, Cameron Diaz, it's

49:22

a promise you made. It's your

49:24

body. Do you remember that movie? She's screaming at Tom

49:27

Cruise and she's like, it was a

49:29

promise we made to you. It's vanilla sky. What

49:31

do you think? It's vanilla sky. Thank you. Thank

49:33

you for that. I just reached into a weird

49:35

Cameron Diaz place in my mind. I reached into

49:37

it. I don't know where that can't

49:40

even see it. OK, so you're just hoping that

49:42

is it though? I mean, for

49:44

a woman, sex is so there's

49:46

oxytocin. You are physically taking a man

49:48

into you if you're having

49:51

heterosexual sex. But

49:53

I also you know. When

49:56

you're younger, you

49:58

don't know what you want. Do I

50:00

want the sex that they tell me I should have

50:02

in movies? Do I want this? Do I like him?

50:04

Do I want him to like me? Is it whatever?

50:07

It's so confusing. I

50:09

would think the

50:11

question is like, were you hurt? Did you

50:13

want to do it? I

50:15

think it's okay to want to do something and it

50:17

just wasn't that good. And then I think

50:19

it's also okay to be like, yeah, oh well. And

50:22

I get that it was the first time, but I

50:24

think it's more about like, does she feel

50:27

not so much empowered, but okay about

50:29

the choice? Because I

50:31

think we have this weird, and I

50:34

don't want your daughter to just sleep with people because

50:36

it does chip away at you if you're just fucking

50:38

people all day long. But there is something

50:40

to sleeping with people,

50:43

rejecting people, seeing what you like, always

50:45

making sure that when you're having sex, it's

50:47

because you want it. And I think that's a note

50:49

that's easier given than heard. So we've all

50:51

had sex as young girls. We were like, I didn't really want

50:54

to. And it was not good. Or I didn't, you know? So

50:57

I don't know what else was said, but I

50:59

think the main thing is like, hopefully

51:02

she didn't feel bad about it. I

51:05

guess I'm thinking about the values because for most

51:10

either ethical or religious traditions, there's

51:12

a set of hopes for what sex is going

51:15

to be and what it's going to

51:17

be and what it will mean. And

51:19

so if you feel like your daughter wasn't living

51:21

in accordance with her own values, then it does

51:23

feel like it's worth a conversation about like, what

51:27

do you believe and what are you hoping for? Like, where do

51:29

you want this to go? I just

51:31

find it kind of wild though that now some of

51:34

the most like sort of people who find rich,

51:36

rich meaning in their life according to their

51:38

own religious value system are

51:41

very shruggy about some of their earlier choices.

51:44

Like it just didn't end up meaning what

51:46

they thought it would. Because you can't know.

51:48

Yeah, I do think because sometimes these things

51:50

are learned experientially. And sometimes it's just like

51:52

a value congruity. So just maybe

51:54

just checking in on like, are you, is

51:57

this part of you? Are

52:00

you want to be or was assistant experiment and you're

52:02

not? really and you're not really sure what it means

52:04

right now? Rates: Also I think. The. Older

52:06

we are we talk rubbish things that

52:08

we go into. the third guy had

52:11

sex influence on our voice said two

52:13

kids which for concerts I think up

52:15

but I think also as a mom.

52:17

Like. That's your little angel if that's

52:19

your baby and you want it. It's

52:21

never great like the first time, like

52:24

it's fine, or it's cool, but it's

52:26

never like oceans were crashing and I'm

52:28

in love. You. Wanted her to

52:30

have special things cause use your baby and he wanted

52:32

to be special for her. And.

52:34

The was looking back of my own

52:37

life and all a tiny mistakes I've

52:39

made like just gear up for signs

52:41

of disappointments out of your daughter but.

52:44

I understand how you're feeling because I'm looking at my

52:46

little girl and I'm just like I just want everything

52:48

to be perfect for you forever. Ma'am.

52:51

Everyone I grew up with they didn't have

52:53

sex into like a forty other mid twenties.

52:55

I never have anything to say more that

52:57

I they are to am freely saw. Oh

53:00

yeah it's amazing What is fine by the

53:02

way it's. Like only in movies are

53:04

like lose your virginity. I'm from mates.

53:06

A. Mid. Twenties is fine. But.

53:09

A Lot. Don't wear your flame. Old

53:11

made a twenty five. But. I.

53:15

Recent. Years to engage in casual sex was always

53:17

going to be casual. Didn't married.

53:20

At eighteen. Since.

53:22

I see to sell he was oh the

53:24

person that's not that's not of the hell

53:26

wasn't meaningful her away at all and won't

53:28

be meaningful ran. Whether that makes the sex

53:30

meaningless I think I think it's about figuring

53:33

out with the mean and was is or

53:35

isn't. That's okay, but there should be eventually.

53:38

Get something out of it or obese. Did you

53:40

learn? Think about yourself Or. You. Just

53:42

want to make sure she's not going to repeat

53:44

this over and over. Seeking some meaning Is an

53:46

attached to it? Yeah, that's good. Know.

53:48

What you said was good, I just. Are. You

53:50

doing everly? Vanilla Sky Whom Cyrillic I mean

53:53

attain for been others were him hard to

53:55

recover. I don't save yourself the movie podcast

53:57

but Whoop! Rumors of sorry minutes is up.

54:00

Will never forget. Can fifty as

54:02

screaming? About about it

54:04

promises. I jokingly said vanilla Sky because I was

54:06

like there's no way a nice guy got you

54:08

gossip and then you written as a I was

54:10

like the. Holiday. It.

54:13

Has glide, Okay, Last.

54:16

Year my dad was diagnosed with cancer,

54:18

he has undergone surgery immunotherapy, multiple rounds

54:20

of radiation is just started, A new

54:23

chemo medication, a trans. They had of it. He

54:25

travels at a safe for his. Treatments. Because we want

54:27

him to receive the best care possible. I'm

54:29

a high school social studies teacher and my

54:31

mother is retired teacher. She keeps or eight

54:33

month baby for me so we don't have

54:35

to pay for childcare. Due

54:38

to my dad's illness I have. I've. Had

54:40

to take days to stay home with the baby was

54:42

he travels with my dad for his treatments. This is

54:44

fine because I save my sick leave and p. T

54:46

o time for this purpose but knowing.

54:48

That this is my last child and with the

54:50

unknown of my dad's illness I decided. Not to

54:52

return to teaching school next year. So

54:55

sad that you have to like same of days

54:57

when a place where it's like. And

55:00

we need also will pay you. Have a fair

55:02

wage. I wanna take this

55:04

time to be with my baby and be available

55:06

as my. Parents need me, My husband and

55:08

I ran the numbers and our finances are

55:10

stable enough for me to be able to

55:12

at least stay home for a year Now

55:15

I know myself. my personality as much as

55:17

I love my family. my kids staying home

55:19

full time had never appealed to me until

55:21

now. Here's my question: Should I take this

55:23

time to solely focus on my baby and

55:26

my dad's. Or should I try to find. A

55:28

remote job or position? Since I won't be

55:30

returning to teach. Even.

55:32

Though financially we can support ourselves for me

55:34

to stay home. I have always worked and

55:37

have my own money. I think part of

55:39

my reasoning for writing in is being solely

55:41

dependent upon my husband financially and not contributing

55:43

anything just makes me worry. Any.

55:47

And all advice is appreciated, especially recommendations on

55:49

remote part time jobs if I decided that

55:51

needs to be done honestly, I give myself

55:53

six months before Mitch in a return to

55:55

the workforce. Sincerely. Anna?

55:57

Yeah, Yeah. I'm

56:01

like, what a beautiful,

56:03

difficult choice. Yeah,

56:06

that's like, I

56:08

mean, and it's so hard to make a

56:10

big break, a big break with routine, a

56:12

big like turn up the volume on being

56:14

scared about money. I

56:16

mean, it's, people always say

56:19

like, it's so meaningful the time

56:21

I spent with my like, but they're always, they're

56:23

always thinking about like, the two weeks in which

56:25

they had some kind of like high. They're never

56:27

thinking about the long, slow, hard work of caregiving.

56:30

So the fact that she's like, building a world

56:32

around a hard choice is so much more commendable

56:34

than like the, the kind

56:36

of emotional tourism that sometimes we expect. Ooh,

56:39

emotional tourism, what is that? Well, like people

56:42

wanna dip in and

56:44

then have the sort

56:46

of be able to condense the meaning. And

56:49

most people's illnesses

56:52

and caregiving just goes

56:54

on so much longer than we expect. And

56:56

so. Right, this finite year, like

56:58

a year to a human, you're like a year, but

57:00

cancer doesn't know a year. Children don't

57:03

know a year, like so finite.

57:05

Yeah, and maybe that's like the best little way

57:08

into it is, because

57:10

there's a question mark around cancer timelines

57:12

always because of the nature of cancer.

57:15

And because there's a question mark always around

57:18

like, ambition and itchiness and

57:20

when you're at home and when you're

57:22

just like, okay. Then

57:24

maybe letting like, one thing

57:26

that I did around living with uncertainty

57:29

with illness is I would make

57:32

a list of questions that I thought I was gonna

57:34

be especially scared about. In this case, it sounds like

57:36

it's how independent do I

57:38

feel? How financially worried am I? How

57:41

much do I feel like this is about time with my dad? How

57:43

much do I feel like this is about time with my kid? And

57:45

then I put it in a calendar for

57:48

three months. Like I put like little check-ins

57:50

for, and I decide I'm not going to,

57:52

I'm gonna make a choice. And then I'm

57:54

not going to obsess about it until my

57:56

next appointed worry time

57:58

compartmentalization. And then I get it. back

58:00

into it and then I open up all the choices

58:02

again. But letting yourself have more than just like, because

58:05

teachers do have, I mean, you can take

58:07

somebody's mat leaves, there are online things like,

58:09

there's more flexibility than the one year, there

58:11

can still be three months, six months, not

58:13

a month. Well, you're saying

58:16

smaller, shorter than a year because I guess the year

58:18

was like financially for her. Yeah. But

58:20

probably a school year is what I'm guessing.

58:22

I just want to say one thing because I don't

58:24

envy this decision and I get, as

58:27

a woman who works, you're just like, I need this. Like I

58:29

want to go back to it. Please

58:32

don't underestimate or

58:34

don't disqualify the fact that you are

58:36

contributing. Like you said in your question, um, right,

58:40

uh, being

58:42

solely dependent upon my husband financially

58:44

and not contributing anything, but you

58:46

are, you are, these

58:49

are things you guys would have

58:51

to pay for. If not for your mother, you

58:53

would have to be paying for childcare. You are

58:55

taking care of and raising your child, which

58:58

we don't value because

59:00

women do it, but

59:02

that is expensive and

59:04

valuable and you're raising someone to

59:06

be a good person and you're

59:09

keeping your husband alive. I don't know

59:11

if you're cooking, you're keeping the hat, like

59:13

you're keeping everything in order. You're making

59:15

appointments. Yesterday, my husband was super busy

59:17

and I was like, I'll do those three doctor

59:19

appointments. And I was like, this

59:21

must be what housewives feel like. Cause I did

59:23

three things, but like those were, it was a

59:25

lot. It took time away from what he was

59:27

doing. I have the time. I'm just saying, please

59:30

don't fall into that trap of thinking that

59:32

because you're not physically at a job, what

59:34

you're doing isn't work and extremely

59:37

valuable and expensive. That's kind of

59:39

right. Yeah. That's

59:41

really true. That's really

59:43

true. And also like maybe

59:46

the intensity,

59:49

I dunno, baby

59:51

stuff, illness stuff, ambition,

59:54

like these are all maybe like volume

59:56

settings rather than on and off switches.

59:59

So. right?

1:00:01

Now and beer train down ambition to you're turning

1:00:03

up care giving on both fronts. Race let yourself

1:00:05

do that for set I'm a time but then

1:00:07

just be okay with the fact that. Kind.

1:00:10

Of did really. depending on how the other

1:00:12

things go. Yeah, You. Might you

1:00:14

really might feel differently and all of the

1:00:16

versions are good versions? Isn't they really are.

1:00:18

I love that. I love the volume settings

1:00:20

and I love what you said like revisit

1:00:23

it later. When. You were like,

1:00:25

oh, man sees as thing about six months, can

1:00:27

I get a protect you can always get a

1:00:29

job, yeah, you don't have to start? If.

1:00:31

I had to tell you one versus. The other I would

1:00:33

say you will regret not having taken this

1:00:35

time. To. Be with your dad who I

1:00:38

hope or covers. And. To be

1:00:40

around your kid and they can be with each

1:00:42

other you don't want to look back. I'm like

1:00:44

but I went to work a lot and I

1:00:46

wish I had my dad here like as even

1:00:48

just for the closure. And

1:00:50

maybe even like. We. Just

1:00:52

because sometimes people see with

1:00:55

cancer treatment. Sometimes. The

1:00:57

time in which you are able to be

1:00:59

spent a lot time with some is not

1:01:01

necessarily than a track with how sick or

1:01:03

healthy he is that sometimes people are very

1:01:05

sick but ensuring that M Decine just don't

1:01:07

need you that much because they're. In

1:01:10

Elm. Disease. You for your having

1:01:12

like a flurry of decisions electron a holding

1:01:14

pattern. Celsius Yes is fully track. It based

1:01:17

on like his health like it's gonna go

1:01:19

up and down. And.

1:01:21

In. Your. Experience of whether you're necessary and

1:01:23

how much time he output in is gonna go

1:01:26

up and down. And. And

1:01:28

you're allowed to ride the roller coaster without feeling like

1:01:30

it just has to be like an all or nothing

1:01:32

here. Give. Yourself a little

1:01:34

bit of space and grace. I never said

1:01:36

a word race but Lake Erie? Celebrate! Yeah!

1:01:39

And. Change your mind. A change your mind only slice

1:01:41

and see others. And. I hope you have

1:01:43

a husband who is seems very supportive and. Okay,

1:01:45

if you wanted some in three months ago, the you don't want

1:01:47

now big deal. With people change filters or

1:01:50

minds. Everyone's

1:01:52

And twenty I'm a female.

1:01:55

my sister in law's twenty seven

1:01:58

and twenty three play innovate Last

1:02:00

summer to Europe in the fall and they

1:02:02

didn't invite me. Wait, what? They're

1:02:09

sister-in-laws sister-in-laws, but they're not

1:02:11

you'll see it in this question. Sorry. No,

1:02:13

no, no, it's fine They're more

1:02:15

into traveling than I am But I still

1:02:18

would have appreciated the invitation and might have

1:02:20

made it happen depending on the cost It

1:02:23

has obviously been a few months since this happened. They

1:02:25

started planning in June And

1:02:27

I never said anything at first I was very

1:02:29

angry and not be included and nobody in the

1:02:31

family seemed to think to say anything But now

1:02:33

I'm just hurt. We obviously don't

1:02:35

have a very close relationship I've tried

1:02:38

but just some different personalities and I can be

1:02:40

a bit blunt and I don't know if Something

1:02:43

I have accidentally blurted out has caused

1:02:45

them to really not like me or what

1:02:47

they can be pretty hot and cold My

1:02:49

question is at this point.

1:02:51

Is it worth saying anything? So they know they

1:02:53

hurt my feelings and if there is a

1:02:55

next time Would I want

1:02:57

to be included my husband is supportive? but

1:03:00

I want I don't want him to say anything for

1:03:02

me, especially now and it's his cousin and Sister-in-law

1:03:05

so not actually his sisters.

1:03:07

So there's more distance there Should

1:03:09

I say anything to them or just let it go

1:03:11

if I should say something? What do

1:03:14

you think I should say? Thank you for all the advice in

1:03:16

the episodes the only podcast where I make sure to listen

1:03:18

to every single episode instead of skipping through And

1:03:21

please listen to the ads in full and buy the things What

1:03:26

do you think I Don't

1:03:29

think say anything don't say anything. No, I

1:03:31

guess the first thing is like I'm really sorry that

1:03:33

you feel hurt and not included That's just that is

1:03:35

an awful feeling But

1:03:37

it also sounds like you know that there's some ambiguity

1:03:40

already in the relationship. Why do you want to be

1:03:42

friends with these girls? Like

1:03:45

I when someone not being liked is a

1:03:47

terrible thing. I get it. I got it I'm

1:03:50

really good. I Think

1:03:52

that's where I'm always coming from. I'm just

1:03:54

crying now. You can't see it. I

1:03:57

just that's funny how much I hear

1:03:59

myself friends being really upset about who's inviting who

1:04:02

on trips. This is like a hot topic. This

1:04:04

happens all the time. Only with

1:04:06

women. Yes. Because

1:04:09

you'll notice at the top because I turn

1:04:11

against people and their questions like I'm always on your side

1:04:13

because you're writing in but you're like

1:04:15

I don't even know if I'd want to go. You

1:04:18

just want to have been invited. Yeah. So

1:04:21

that you can then decide if it's worth

1:04:23

it or not. Yeah,

1:04:25

you know what the cost is going to be

1:04:27

because you know their financial situation. These girls

1:04:29

aren't taking a luxury cruise through

1:04:32

India on land. The

1:04:34

elephant. You

1:04:37

don't even think you like them. You

1:04:39

just want them to like you and

1:04:41

you want to have been invited. I

1:04:44

don't disagree. Right. I don't

1:04:46

disagree. I really.

1:04:49

I that feeling

1:04:51

of like you want to have been included sounds

1:04:53

like that. It's the core of the core. Yeah.

1:04:55

Like that's the big feeling. That feeling is more

1:04:57

important than any of the details. I just wish

1:05:00

that I was invited. Right. And I

1:05:02

hate this feeling it makes. And now I'm

1:05:04

obsessed over whether they should have invited me

1:05:06

even though they probably shouldn't have

1:05:09

given the amount of distance. Yeah.

1:05:13

You know vacation with hot cold

1:05:15

friends. Vacationing is for like I

1:05:17

like you when you're horrible.

1:05:19

Yeah. And I still linger

1:05:22

at the end of whatever is to catch

1:05:24

up and tell you things. Yeah. And I

1:05:26

make really specific dates and plans with you.

1:05:28

Those are people you vacation with a closeness

1:05:30

that you gave away your cat for

1:05:32

me. Hello. I need people to

1:05:35

take things they love and

1:05:37

destroy their own life. Is that a definition

1:05:39

of friendship? I'm a doctor. This

1:05:42

is not the first time on the podcast we've had a

1:05:45

question about like a vacation and a friend whether

1:05:47

she want to break up with a friend or

1:05:49

you don't know or it's uncomfortable. You're

1:05:51

uncomfortable with these women. You guys do not

1:05:53

have a baseline the only thing connecting you

1:05:55

isn't even blood. It's the fact that you've married

1:05:57

people who are related to each other. Let

1:06:00

this one go Identify where

1:06:02

this is coming from because there is a part that

1:06:04

like maybe you like them and you just can't tell

1:06:08

You don't need this fucking headache No Adult

1:06:10

woman needs to like did I say something when I didn't

1:06:12

mean to then they don't get you Or

1:06:15

spend more time with them so you guys can connect.

1:06:17

Yeah Yeah, you don't want to

1:06:19

be on vacation with a 23 and a 27 year

1:06:22

old with us worlds apart. Have fun Well,

1:06:25

one of them's hungover and the other one just watches Love

1:06:27

Island I Feel

1:06:29

like 27 is so old Yeah

1:06:33

One time I watched love on him for an entire weekend

1:06:35

and took me to a very dark place because love

1:06:37

Island is about people Okay

1:06:39

within like with small imperceptible differences rejecting

1:06:41

other people and living in the loneliness of not

1:06:44

being included I don't know why I picked that

1:06:46

trip never seen but that is how people feel

1:06:48

nobody wants to be not included Women

1:06:51

cannot be in threes This is what they tell us when

1:06:53

we have little girls as little girls like don't let your

1:06:55

little girl play in threes Cuz it's always two against one

1:06:58

Cuz little girls are mean Your

1:07:01

husband should not say something because you definitely don't want

1:07:03

to be invited like out of guilt No, and

1:07:05

then it's even more cool say nothing

1:07:07

move on Yeah See if you

1:07:09

want to be friends with them try and if they're bitches

1:07:11

then you definitely don't want to be on vacation with them And

1:07:14

you really have the hang of this advice giving thing you

1:07:16

come in strong you come in like a

1:07:18

knife Then you're and

1:07:21

you're just like wrong question Don't

1:07:23

go They didn't

1:07:25

like you you didn't like them. Bye. I get

1:07:27

it. I'm getting it. I'm picking it up. I Just

1:07:31

I guess because I've been that I've been the

1:07:33

person that's like I just wanted to be invited

1:07:35

like all the things you're feeling I'm like that

1:07:38

are bad like I felt those like we all

1:07:40

contain these things and so I'm just like as

1:07:42

your friend I'm just like look we all I

1:07:44

have shitty thoughts too Here's

1:07:46

how you don't act on it. Yeah, and

1:07:48

don't lose self-respect by saying something Yeah,

1:07:51

if they say it no, I should we've invited you be

1:07:53

like I'd be like next time that's good

1:07:55

You don't want to be like yeah, you really

1:07:57

shut up. I told my husband you remind me

1:08:00

I want free margarita. Wait,

1:08:03

did you land on free margarita? My margarita.

1:08:06

I want a margarita. I want free margarita. I've

1:08:09

been with my husband for 10 years. By

1:08:12

the way, I just want you to know, when I do this

1:08:14

with Emily, I don't read the questions ahead of time. I

1:08:16

do have the advantage of having read through

1:08:18

these, so I've been stewing in my thoughts. Not my

1:08:20

answers as much as my, like as I read this,

1:08:23

I'm like, oh, I had a thought about this family.

1:08:26

So you need a second to process it. We can take that. Also,

1:08:29

every time someone starts with the amount

1:08:31

of time this is the thing with

1:08:33

married people is they describe their relationships.

1:08:36

Like, they're always just, they've been

1:08:38

in prison. They really want you to know.

1:08:40

It's always in terms of like, it's

1:08:43

eight years. I did 10 years. I did 20.

1:08:46

Is your name again? I said 20. They're

1:08:49

letting you know, like, this is a serious relationship. They're getting those,

1:08:52

yeah. They're like, well, I said, don't tell me to leave him. That's

1:08:54

not what this is about. I've been

1:08:56

with my husband for 10 years. He

1:08:58

grew up in a different country before moving to the US.

1:09:01

Some of his siblings live here in the States as

1:09:03

well, and they've lived here longer than he has. We

1:09:06

live in Colorado, and his siblings live in

1:09:08

Florida, which already tells me you're

1:09:10

Latino. Oh. Because

1:09:12

it's Florida, and Colorado has a huge

1:09:15

Latino population. I'm just, I'm just guessing.

1:09:17

And we have visited them a handful of times over

1:09:20

the years. It's always been a little

1:09:22

strange when we visit them because they never take

1:09:24

time off when we're around or do that much

1:09:26

to spend time with us. Even

1:09:28

when we're there for the holidays, they definitely have

1:09:30

personal time off with their jobs and I don't

1:09:32

understand why they don't use it. I've always

1:09:35

chalked this behavior up to cultural differences

1:09:37

and just tried not to judge. My

1:09:39

brother-in-law's wife in general doesn't engage

1:09:41

with me much, even though we

1:09:43

stay at their house with them. There's

1:09:46

a number of small inconveniences I've noticed when

1:09:48

we stay there, like not enough towels,

1:09:50

a mattress with no sheets on the floor

1:09:52

for the kids to sleep on, not Montessori

1:09:54

style. A terrible shower head that hurts your

1:09:56

body to stand under because the water feels like

1:09:59

you're being hit by airports. There

1:10:01

are enough of these minor inconveniences that I'm always happy

1:10:03

to go home. So this past

1:10:05

weekend, my brother-in-law brings his family a

1:10:07

five to come visit us for the first

1:10:09

time because the kids really want to see snow. They

1:10:12

flew up Friday night and

1:10:14

left Sunday afternoon. So again,

1:10:16

not taking personal time off, but

1:10:18

whatever. I'll let them live their life and we can, and

1:10:21

we'll do what we can to make the best of it. After

1:10:23

a plane delay, they get in around midnight and

1:10:26

apparently don't sleep well, but they're game to

1:10:28

go exploring on Saturday. We take two cars

1:10:30

to accommodate everyone and I drive with my

1:10:33

brother-in-law's wife and younger kids. The

1:10:35

one who doesn't engage much? Correct. Okay.

1:10:37

Things are a little awkward between me and the

1:10:39

brother-in-law's wife, but I'm just kind of thinking that

1:10:42

we'll need some time together to chat, relax, hang

1:10:44

out at each other's company, and that those moments

1:10:46

of silence are inevitable until we get comfortable. On

1:10:49

our way back after some light exploring, I'm

1:10:51

trying to be a good host, share facts

1:10:53

about the area, which no one wants to hear. No one

1:10:55

wants to hear. I love facts about the

1:10:57

area. History. If this Starbucks was erected

1:10:59

two years ago, whatever they're doing, like

1:11:01

this is all the CVS used to

1:11:03

be. Then I'm out. Drive

1:11:06

with me through all that. I'm like, that used

1:11:08

to be where I did stand up now as a CVS. I

1:11:10

just stand up there. It's also a CVS. That's

1:11:13

a life, that's a bio tour, and I'll take

1:11:15

that any day. Oh man. It's just

1:11:17

a lot of shitty venues on Melrose. Where were you?

1:11:20

I'll say that 200 times. Then where

1:11:22

were you? And I'll answer. I'll be like, she really wants

1:11:24

to know. Okay, here it

1:11:26

is. On our way back to have

1:11:28

some light exploring, I'm trying to be a good host, share

1:11:30

facts about the area, engage with the kids, and ask questions

1:11:33

to her when I can, when my

1:11:35

brother-in-law's wife just pops her

1:11:37

AirPods in her ears. She's

1:11:39

riding shotgun, doesn't give

1:11:41

me any warning, and just starts

1:11:43

jamming out to music in her

1:11:46

ears only. I'm sitting

1:11:48

there asking myself, did she just really do that?

1:11:50

And I'm sitting there trying to think of a

1:11:52

plausible reason for how this would be okay.

1:11:54

Like, she's tired, she just traveled with her kids,

1:11:57

is this culturally okay where she comes from? I

1:12:00

realized that putting in your ear pods, in your

1:12:02

ears, in any fucking country means I don't want

1:12:04

to engage to you. She

1:12:06

does that for the whole rest of the way home and eventually

1:12:09

falls asleep. So

1:12:12

now, even though that's when I

1:12:14

read this, I was like, this is a juicy

1:12:16

episode. Whoa. So now, even though I

1:12:18

get the blatant F you that she gave me, I don't

1:12:21

get what I was supposed to do in that scenario when

1:12:23

someone is so blatantly rude. I decided that I

1:12:25

wasn't going to give it oxygen in the moment. I played it

1:12:27

cool the rest of the time. They

1:12:29

were here because I know the person

1:12:31

I want to be and show up as. But

1:12:34

thinking about this makes me feel disrespected and I can't

1:12:36

help but think I miss an opportunity to tell her

1:12:38

what's up and put her in her place. Every

1:12:41

time I approach my four-year-old with that mindset, it never

1:12:43

pans out by the way I want. So

1:12:45

perhaps I self-sabotage myself. I self-sabotage myself.

1:12:49

My husband and mother-in-law, who both

1:12:51

apologized for her behavior when I told

1:12:53

them after she left, say this is

1:12:55

just her jealous character and the way

1:12:57

she is. How would you

1:12:59

have handled this situation? What should

1:13:01

I have done to address this and should I

1:13:03

bring it up to her at any point? I'm

1:13:05

sure there will be slights like this in the

1:13:07

future. How do I navigate these while respecting myself

1:13:09

and not being a doormat for this behavior?

1:13:12

Lots of love and respect. Pamela. Whoa.

1:13:15

I like Pamela though. Yeah. Like.

1:13:18

That Pam's great. And like very

1:13:20

compelling. Oh yeah. Good writing.

1:13:23

That is like, that's just, that's one. That

1:13:25

is quality writing. Yeah. I

1:13:28

am 100% immediately bought into

1:13:30

her thoughts and feelings and perspective. I

1:13:32

want her, I want everything she wants. I want

1:13:34

Pamela to win. I really do. But

1:13:37

like, what do you think they meant by

1:13:39

the jealous nature? See

1:13:42

as a feminist, I, a couple

1:13:45

things. So she's a jealous nature, five

1:13:47

kids, no personal time off. I

1:13:50

think they don't have a lot of money. And

1:13:53

that might be that. You know? When

1:13:57

you visit, like I, it could be they don't have a

1:13:59

lot of money. a lot of money and

1:14:01

she's insecure about that. It

1:14:03

could be that you are flaunting, say your wealth,

1:14:05

I don't know anything about what you have, but

1:14:08

it could be like she feels inferior around you

1:14:10

and it could be something that you've done or really could be nothing

1:14:12

you've done. It doesn't seem like something that you've done, but I

1:14:15

really hate how women always get labeled

1:14:17

as jealous. This woman could

1:14:20

just be a bitch. Yeah, it could be

1:14:22

better than Josie. So

1:14:24

there is that where she's uncomfortable and like you

1:14:26

guys have like nice cars or something or

1:14:28

they just don't have the things that you

1:14:31

have. And this was the first trip where they were

1:14:33

coming out to see them? I guess so. So maybe

1:14:35

they'd hosted a bit like that in

1:14:37

Florida. And now they see you come to your house and

1:14:39

it's so much like she feels... Man,

1:14:42

you've been stewing about this. I've

1:14:45

just been, every single question

1:14:47

has been like, yeah, what?

1:14:51

Well, and it sounds like

1:14:53

Pamela because you're trying to be culturally sensitive, you're never

1:14:55

sure if you're an outsider or if you're just getting

1:14:57

like blatantly kicked out. And this

1:14:59

one was a unadulterated. I don't

1:15:03

buy the thing where just because you like, and

1:15:05

I'm guessing you're white Pamela, like I don't buy

1:15:07

this, like you should feel bad. And by the

1:15:09

way, I don't know what their other culture is.

1:15:11

I'm just going off context clues. Nobody

1:15:13

deserves, you don't, nobody

1:15:16

gets to be rude just because of their

1:15:18

culture. You can be a

1:15:20

little sassy, you can like not have time for

1:15:22

someone's bullshit. But especially if you're

1:15:24

hosting her family, to put in her

1:15:26

AirPods, if she had said to you like, I am exhausted.

1:15:28

Do you care if I close my eyes? You'd be like,

1:15:30

Oh my God, please do. The

1:15:34

jealousy thing, we have a clear map of what to

1:15:37

do, because you're not going to

1:15:39

like sell your house. And you're still

1:15:41

going to visit them. That's on her.

1:15:43

I don't know if

1:15:45

it's jealousy. I thought it sounds

1:15:47

like she is her

1:15:50

response to stress of any kind, whether

1:15:52

she's uncomfortable or insecure or

1:15:55

out of water kind of feeling, but is

1:15:57

to close off and to become to have

1:15:59

like a hostile smallness.

1:16:02

And people sometimes do that to get

1:16:05

power back. They often do it that

1:16:07

way. But I also just don't think it's

1:16:10

Pamela's job to have that conversation.

1:16:12

That's the husband's... That's

1:16:14

her husband's brother's wife,

1:16:17

right? It's

1:16:19

her husband's brother's wife, yes. Yeah, that's on

1:16:21

him then. So what I would do is

1:16:23

I would never be the... Congratulations,

1:16:26

you never have to be in a car with her again. Never.

1:16:29

Never. You never even have to linger in a kitchen

1:16:31

again. The second you think you're in

1:16:33

any way in a one-on-one situation, you're

1:16:35

out. That's right. You are now under

1:16:38

the umbrella of pre-existing family relationships. Genuinely,

1:16:41

but this is

1:16:43

a husband to brother, and

1:16:45

if you don't want to stir it up, fine, but you

1:16:47

don't have to protect yourself. I don't know.

1:16:49

You have to agree with me. No, I... He's

1:16:51

like, fight me. Fight me now. I've

1:16:53

beaten cancer. Fight me. Watch

1:16:56

how strong my upper body is. I have been

1:16:58

working out. I don't disagree about the... I'm a

1:17:00

big fan of just leave the room. If she's

1:17:02

gonna be a child, you can just be

1:17:04

like, oh, hi. Hi, Susan. Bye. Toodles.

1:17:06

Because you don't... I know you're gonna be

1:17:09

a bitch. I

1:17:11

hate the idea that the

1:17:13

men have to be

1:17:15

the go-between between women. There's

1:17:18

nothing you can do to change the past. In the moment,

1:17:20

I would have been like, I'm not your chauffeur. You don't have

1:17:22

to say it like that, but in the moment, I've been like, what are you

1:17:24

doing? You don't want to embarrass her in front of

1:17:26

her kids. I would have said something. Really? Only

1:17:29

because if you call people out on their

1:17:31

weirdness, sometimes they either back down or they

1:17:33

give you a reason. That was

1:17:35

a power move. It was. I guess

1:17:38

if I'm trying to decide if I want a

1:17:40

confrontation, it's entirely predicated on whether

1:17:42

I see a future with that person. Oh, that

1:17:44

is great. That is great.

1:17:47

Because if it's not, then fine, you can

1:17:49

retract, and then somebody else can handle the nonsense.

1:17:52

But if you think there are gonna be more situations

1:17:54

where you're gonna have to... where you want to

1:17:58

take a different step in a better... The

1:18:00

action and you wanted you want to. Initially,

1:18:02

take the cost of the awkwardness enough

1:18:04

as it sounds like she's really him

1:18:06

emotionally mature. Than like and

1:18:08

yeah I mean how the conversation that

1:18:10

the like. There's there's kind

1:18:13

of there's no winning a respect game. I

1:18:15

think in this one she already has come

1:18:17

of replace of. I don't have

1:18:19

as much money this person or I'm jealous

1:18:21

form a crazy person. Is. Yeah,

1:18:23

you're actually right. I think they will have to get. A

1:18:25

long you're probably visit Florida or and

1:18:28

the brothers are brothers. There.

1:18:30

Is a version where you show up with like.

1:18:33

A. Nice thing of lotion next. Time So guess

1:18:35

what you like this you see so stressed lot

1:18:37

of time of wife or because you put air

1:18:39

pods in and passed. Out in the car

1:18:41

as I drove your children and upon

1:18:43

from a hike assists. I I

1:18:45

would feel so discouraged and are

1:18:47

really hear that it's so gross

1:18:49

to have led. He.

1:18:51

Really. Showing them the sites and then

1:18:53

they're like. They. Openly peace out

1:18:55

as your be inclined to their children. Had

1:18:57

shitty and it was a power move

1:19:00

he says adding she also does sound

1:19:02

exhausted. Five kids. It's a very quick

1:19:04

trip. is t ball the wanting for

1:19:06

whatever reason have personal time off like

1:19:08

that. It's not a luxurious trip. The

1:19:11

she's like not right or she's really it sounds

1:19:13

like she's in a survival plays not s for

1:19:15

good or for bad. But. Not a

1:19:17

try. it's you not trying to make more

1:19:19

between you lead. Be hospitable. The Us have

1:19:22

the like there's no extra mile on this

1:19:24

one and added a bare minimum situation. Your

1:19:26

you either have to go to survival are you

1:19:28

have? it does sound like you have to go

1:19:30

to some version of lead. Somebody is gonna say

1:19:32

something whether it's you. And. I don't

1:19:34

think A I. Am. I'm fiercely

1:19:36

opposed Illicit your husband's Problem.

1:19:39

I. Don't like the idea when has been fighting my battles for. Me

1:19:42

unless it's like an analysis is that was

1:19:44

there. I would I be curious about the

1:19:46

brothers relationship if he has to non confrontational

1:19:48

ones are she have to ones less healthy

1:19:50

ones just be like is on the car

1:19:53

with whatever like to see like that you

1:19:55

could say like. Is. Is a either

1:19:57

do the ultimate cool girl thing was. Like I'm

1:19:59

just worried for her. She seems so upset. Said

1:20:01

I'll get back to her the church for as

1:20:04

it is by requests. Yeah I'm just sleep or

1:20:06

yeah are you see okay so he sees as

1:20:08

really wanna know like and. Prefer. Oh

1:20:10

yeah, that's a big one of the sort

1:20:12

of prey on his arm. But. I

1:20:15

like what you said about like the emotional costs of like

1:20:17

Dorothy, a future with the how often do have to

1:20:19

see this woman. Yeah.

1:20:21

Yeah. I really hate the sin of seeds and

1:20:23

I hate that she just felt like. Not

1:20:26

never one really notices their shower head in their

1:20:28

guess is probably not showering there but like that

1:20:30

the banner that says you noticed seats and like

1:20:33

they do notice towels and they and the and

1:20:35

you should be in a position reason the like

1:20:37

haiti my as I get us to tell it's

1:20:39

it's pretty hard to stay with somebody if you

1:20:41

can ask and see like that is gonna. Be

1:20:43

reciprocated. And it'll.

1:20:46

Never you need to consider. Because we all have

1:20:48

room. In our hearts to be like descent or

1:20:50

don't care how fucking hard. You work for how hard your

1:20:52

life was like. You don't have to be awful The people for

1:20:54

no reason. Santa Point is yes, five

1:20:56

kids. Are has no personal

1:20:59

time off. His. Overworked and her

1:21:01

husband like my family's coming get the house ready

1:21:03

and she was only one kid was throwing up

1:21:05

when she was a she just can be no

1:21:07

and so she feels bad and insecure. That.

1:21:10

I've good feeling is a good argument is

1:21:12

it happens like a couple times but if

1:21:15

it happens over five years then or desert

1:21:17

noticing if if she look at our relationship

1:21:19

and is the like if this is a

1:21:21

lifetime of that will. Not be met nicest.

1:21:23

It's a character issues. ah circumstance. I am a

1:21:25

big said. Next time you go there you will

1:21:27

you and me. Let's go for it. Like let's

1:21:29

talk about those bilic. And usually

1:21:32

I. Wanna know like

1:21:34

that? I do something even. Though you know you didn't But.

1:21:36

Like. Giving her the chance, it'll be like I'm.

1:21:38

Sorry and if she can't then she can't

1:21:40

but like at the like some as were

1:21:42

just too afraid. To. Be like today. Is

1:21:45

this or we could Not that I've had to do. That. lately,

1:21:47

but. Having the courage.

1:21:50

Putting. It out there to at least give someone

1:21:52

a chance to be foot wide your face. Or

1:21:55

repair my for you at Christmas is to

1:21:57

lie to your at least just like me

1:21:59

to my. I

1:22:02

like a good confrontation. I don't

1:22:04

think there's one of their now accommodation. Not in

1:22:06

terms of. Umbrage. but

1:22:08

it on themselves like her

1:22:10

having the capacity for the

1:22:13

desired. To. Create.

1:22:15

A reciprocal relationship? Yeah, or maybe under six.

1:22:17

So really upset about the towels it's at

1:22:19

that is. And he, that's. Don't.

1:22:21

Make me. When he was. Wounded.

1:22:25

Sousa had to see early by ourselves to say

1:22:27

trial driver whole body would like a hand to

1:22:29

like a small. Him else is

1:22:31

for your children. Your clothes.

1:22:35

Ah, But. It sounds like this woman's

1:22:37

issues Not with you. it's with their circumstances and

1:22:39

herself, and there's probably accurate demure. Light is very

1:22:41

little you can do. And. Are

1:22:44

not welcome at your house anymore. Factor

1:22:46

X A C Turn all that bothered need to nine he

1:22:48

can you give us a follow up. I'd like to know

1:22:50

a little bit more. Contacts.

1:22:53

Now this episode is running a little long, but I

1:22:55

like that it's Susie. Because I'm also really enjoying

1:22:57

having you here. And.

1:23:00

We only have itself what I never get

1:23:02

to give absolutely on Founders I is it

1:23:04

fun if you've great. As for I

1:23:06

don't know you are you situation But here's

1:23:08

easy to: your life wasn't world owes for

1:23:11

to live in this actual framework. This is

1:23:13

it. Or Yelena. That's what I say when

1:23:15

I go rogue. Listen up. I mean you

1:23:17

had to get a Phd and write books.

1:23:19

If your comic like pupils as listen, you're

1:23:22

not afraid of them. And it is. I

1:23:24

wield it. Contacts.

1:23:28

They just start with the current know

1:23:30

there wasn't really a city, are really

1:23:32

worried that you don't feel understood by

1:23:34

they're. Trying to make you feel anger and

1:23:36

will inform because sometimes the answer lies in

1:23:38

just one adjective. They

1:23:41

send see. You. Guys.

1:23:43

Of. My friends be owns

1:23:45

a children's athletic. Company where she teaches kids.

1:23:47

think In Albuquerque it's but I don't want to serenade.

1:23:50

honestly her name and the name of the company. Is

1:23:52

like kibble addicts. To

1:23:54

you just things like think gymnastics and dance. Soccer:

1:23:56

A Sarah. That I

1:23:58

s workout. As. Well

1:24:01

she's single an active on.

1:24:03

The dating apps. What? Happened

1:24:05

call last week

1:24:07

or. On a dating app she came

1:24:09

across the dad of one of her students. To

1:24:11

be clear the dad had not mess with her

1:24:14

just came up in her options. This is a

1:24:16

family she. Knows very well and a student.

1:24:18

She's been teaching for years from everything. We've

1:24:20

seen of the family. The husband and

1:24:22

wife are happily married, gone family vacations,

1:24:24

etc. She. Freaked out and took screen

1:24:26

grab. So we have proof of this Mary

1:24:28

Dad on the app. In his

1:24:31

profile it mentions nothing about being

1:24:33

married. Or having kids. All of the prompts

1:24:35

and photos make him look singles except in one

1:24:37

for you can actually see he's wearing a wedding

1:24:39

ring. It's. Entirely possible that she's

1:24:41

come up and his options as well on the

1:24:44

app, so he may. Already. Know that she

1:24:46

knows he's on the dating at. The.

1:24:48

Other day he came as a business and

1:24:50

I freaked out wondering if he was going

1:24:53

to ask to speak to be to ask

1:24:55

if she saw him on the apt

1:24:57

to panic at work For both of us

1:24:59

we desperately need the house. We definitely

1:25:01

have decided what she should do. Said she

1:25:04

tells his wife city stay silent. For

1:25:06

now his daughters on bees team and

1:25:08

she teaches are multiple times a week

1:25:10

so she cannot avoid the family somewhere.

1:25:12

Girl: Yes please come back to Toronto

1:25:14

Yeah and you twice he to take

1:25:16

be to see you. I'm using

1:25:18

humor. I will be And you for five of

1:25:20

all up to this very situation is pleased by

1:25:22

Vip tickets and then give you the fall versus.

1:25:24

Know it's a stressful to is that. Some my colleagues

1:25:27

early professional ethicists and they would you like

1:25:29

a whole value proposition about this? Oh wow.

1:25:31

Like. What is them? What is

1:25:33

the societal cost? Of maintaining a lie

1:25:35

about what's your response. A: Why did I

1:25:37

say higher? If it's waste My bad My,

1:25:40

it's mostly thinking about. How hot

1:25:42

with he does he really think he might be singles? Oh

1:25:44

My. God. that's so funny. Yeah, like is it. Or

1:25:46

you for is a for sure that it was a

1:25:48

why we don't know what they're separated, what if there

1:25:51

but the wife's like yeah go on a dating app

1:25:53

like you don't know. Say. nothing because

1:25:55

it costs you nothing to say nothing

1:25:57

you're not friends with him not friends

1:25:59

with the wife. That's true. And

1:26:02

it's not like it's a, I mean,

1:26:04

there's not, I'm just thinking of all the

1:26:06

versions of life where we have like mandatory

1:26:08

reporting on things. There's not

1:26:10

a world of mandatory reporting on,

1:26:12

on gymnastics skis. Nope. You

1:26:14

know, they're just even just like, uh, you just,

1:26:16

it's just a creep factor went up in your

1:26:19

mind, but it's, well, it's also, I

1:26:21

mean, it could have been catfish. Someone could be using his

1:26:23

picture. That happens. People will send

1:26:25

me dating profiles where people use my picture.

1:26:27

And I'm like, of all the women, like

1:26:30

a pretty girl, like there's hotter women or

1:26:33

the thycim attainable or

1:26:35

is that you think I'm not famous, but I'm

1:26:37

just saying someone could have, if he's hot, I

1:26:40

could use his picture. I like how much you

1:26:42

thought through the most insulting implications of

1:26:44

you being considered hot enough to copy. Are you

1:26:48

my hot enough for you to try to ruin my life? Um,

1:26:51

or you think I'm not famous enough?

1:26:53

That's so funny. Okay. Well, I,

1:26:56

I would say

1:26:58

from a business perspective, it's, it's

1:27:00

a behoove view from a self interest

1:27:02

perspective. It don't say anything.

1:27:04

Yeah. But just from a general interest, I

1:27:06

can see why this went to the tippy

1:27:09

top of the list. Yeah. Like dad

1:27:11

and his dad and his behavior, dad, who

1:27:13

you see all the time, checking to see if he's still

1:27:16

there or checking to see if he sees you being there.

1:27:18

There's a lot to work with. By the way, this guy

1:27:20

is hot. Cause this guy were an ago. You'd be like,

1:27:22

why are you on the same? I think we can absolutely

1:27:24

tell it. Stay out of it completely. Uh, but

1:27:27

still remain very interested and

1:27:30

keep us updated. It's incredibly

1:27:32

interesting. Yeah. The, it's tough.

1:27:34

Cause like as a woman, should I tell another woman,

1:27:36

you don't know, we don't know. They

1:27:39

could be, they could be genuinely not together.

1:27:41

She could have cheated on him. I'm

1:27:46

just saying part of a serious reciprocity.

1:27:50

Probably not. Definitely not. Definitely not. Feels

1:27:52

like that. It seems like an open,

1:27:54

a dating app, like that's not secure.

1:27:56

Like that's very public. Oh, people are

1:27:58

so dumb though. especially people.

1:28:01

No one will

1:28:04

know. Yeah so if he's willing

1:28:06

to be that open maybe it's I just you

1:28:08

don't have enough factor emotional factors. Yeah. You don't

1:28:10

have a connection to the wife you're not really

1:28:12

friends with him you are getting a check from

1:28:15

them to teach the daughter. So

1:28:18

in terms of like role differentiation teacher

1:28:21

student separate.

1:28:25

But man screen shots like just like

1:28:27

light stocking and follow-ups I'd be I'd

1:28:29

be all into this from like a

1:28:32

soapy perspective. Oh this is something delicious

1:28:34

you and your co-worker can snack on.

1:28:36

Yeah you were given a gift. You

1:28:39

were given a gift. You were given a gift unless

1:28:41

of course you find out this woman is being betrayed

1:28:43

and their lives are falling apart then you can have different

1:28:45

feelings. They're not on you. But maybe don't say

1:28:47

it but you can have different, you can have

1:28:49

more morally complicated feelings until that time. Yeah. Like

1:28:52

we can feel very worried about like what

1:28:54

this means for their family and how it

1:28:56

costs them but until you know that someone is being

1:28:59

hurt you're allowed to enjoy it. I

1:29:01

think my grandfather would say the situation will crystallize.

1:29:03

I like that.

1:29:05

Grandma say stuff like that.

1:29:07

I've never heard him say it my mom said her

1:29:10

dad used to say it and so I should say it's like

1:29:12

my mom said my grandpa used to say but it

1:29:15

will but there's nothing for you to do here. Yeah.

1:29:18

Forget the like women owe the other women it

1:29:21

not wasn't that no unless there's a forensic

1:29:23

report and you've got some kind of deep

1:29:25

ethical obligation. I don't actually

1:29:27

entirely know forensic means now that I'm thinking

1:29:30

about it. Is it entirely related to crime?

1:29:32

No. You could have like a forensic accountant

1:29:34

like it's like where you have to put

1:29:36

the pieces together where the things weren't there.

1:29:38

It might be the only time I

1:29:40

know something that you

1:29:42

didn't know. I'm learning and also I really want to

1:29:44

take a tour of all the places that you

1:29:46

were a comedian briefly. It's a lot of strip malls.

1:29:49

There was also part of me just now that

1:29:51

was like Kate so smart I think she's pretending

1:29:53

that to know what forensic means so I can

1:29:56

shine for a second. What does revolve mean? It's

1:29:58

Reverse. When

1:30:01

I don't ask you to many questions more the Cbs

1:30:03

used to be you could be label says on Melrose

1:30:05

and it is a Cbs now and it was just

1:30:07

an empty arch Spanish I point out my has been

1:30:10

every time he's A he showed me feel we were

1:30:12

we we did that with us as we walk This

1:30:14

was happening Barry A Design and adults live with you.

1:30:16

I get it might says A. I mean. All.

1:30:19

Those sets cobbled together. Is what however

1:30:21

for to the zoom recorder So I frankly

1:30:23

I frankenstein to life. Is this not enough

1:30:25

for your i could sign it. Tastes.

1:30:28

Have a top of the copies the top

1:30:30

with cause the don't iphone. Every

1:30:32

day it'll take a bite of the pub

1:30:34

you into a top or bottom first. Your.

1:30:37

You evil First, My.

1:30:39

Top of the and. Will do bottom Brazilian

1:30:42

on a high note. Miles deserve.

1:30:44

A little ones. well it's just very controversial

1:30:46

and it sounds like I'm setting up to

1:30:49

not be. but it actually is For anybody

1:30:51

who's not interested or who just you suggest

1:30:53

know you should just know. The

1:30:55

red hand pins. That.

1:30:57

You see a lot of pros:

1:31:00

cease fire. Pro. Palestine

1:31:02

People wearing. Our.

1:31:04

Appropriated from a horrific

1:31:07

event. That. You saw, lot

1:31:09

of people are at the Oscars wearing

1:31:11

me like red hand pins. I'm. And.

1:31:15

It it would be like me wearing a

1:31:17

pin with a noose on it and being

1:31:19

like I want racial equality. And if you

1:31:21

were a. Black person saudi be like hey, And

1:31:23

news has a very different meanings. The

1:31:25

red Hand comes from. His. See

1:31:28

it a lot. I'm saying this because people need to. Know

1:31:30

the actual facts. You see red hand bloody

1:31:32

hand prints on a lot of pro Palestinian

1:31:34

signed a lot of ceasefire signs all over

1:31:37

the world. Ah, and it

1:31:39

has nothing to do with Palestine.

1:31:41

Like Palestinian blood. Like. Dare say

1:31:43

like they want you to think it's like this is. The. Blood of

1:31:45

our people. Because you guys it. Unless. The.

1:31:47

Reading Imprint actually comes from in

1:31:49

two thousand in a city called

1:31:52

Ramallah, which was a Palestinian city.

1:31:54

To. Idea

1:31:56

reservist found themselves they're whether by

1:31:58

acts in Iran. But and they

1:32:00

were lynched. By. An angry

1:32:03

mob and one of the murderers.

1:32:05

After it happened, held up his hands on a

1:32:07

glass window and they have the blood of these

1:32:09

Jewish guys on his hands and it left an

1:32:11

imprint. So. That imagery. That's

1:32:14

Jewish blood being used now

1:32:16

to propagate the idea. That.

1:32:19

This is all about a cease fire,

1:32:21

but it's gas lighting says it's a

1:32:24

handprint in and of itself is a

1:32:26

murdered Jewish soldier reservists to so niven.

1:32:29

And I just seeing that imagery. If you want

1:32:32

to say cease. Fire Now and you don't

1:32:34

have the facts of fine. Everybody wants peace,

1:32:36

but that pin in particular. I think people

1:32:38

are wearing it without having the full contact.

1:32:40

not unlike I'm a Confederate flag. And.

1:32:43

So. A. Lot of people don't

1:32:45

want to talk about Israel, Palestine which I get

1:32:47

especially if. You are not Middle Easterner.

1:32:49

You're not Jewish. It's a charged

1:32:51

thing, but that was incredibly. It's.

1:32:53

Something that looks so in your face and they're like

1:32:55

know, it's just about peace and it's like than pick

1:32:57

a different sudden. And. I

1:33:00

just I started posting about it and my

1:33:02

has started rubbing my post answered everything down

1:33:04

like protect my piece. But.

1:33:06

Then of now this week I'm. Seeing all the

1:33:08

will posting the sax like you cannot refute

1:33:10

Facts like that is where that comes from.

1:33:12

Whether or not you hate jews or Palestine?

1:33:15

Fine but at least know. What's.

1:33:17

Behind the saying that you're doing which

1:33:19

I think a lot of people don't

1:33:21

So the red hand pin was just

1:33:23

have. Many bridges too

1:33:25

far in this, but that one is

1:33:27

this extra gas lighting. That's all. So

1:33:29

I want to put that out there. Is the

1:33:31

civil what? read him. And of my own idea.

1:33:34

You were right. Why would you? The one that

1:33:36

Marseille Ali was wearing? The one that's. Rami

1:33:39

Yusuf was. Wearing that people were just. Wearing

1:33:41

as if it were. A. Peace sign that's

1:33:44

the blood of a job of jews

1:33:46

that were lynched. And

1:33:48

I'm putting them out there. Not shot,

1:33:50

lynched, Is. So.

1:33:53

That's what you look like when you were read him press

1:33:56

York like someone who loves it of Jews being murdered in

1:33:58

the name of peace. Photograph.

1:34:01

You can look it up. Ramallah. Has

1:34:03

like to else. What? You

1:34:06

see what it's like a specialist? Israeli.

1:34:08

What I love a good. One.

1:34:10

Of the great joys of being

1:34:12

historian is. Is.

1:34:16

The. Ability to tell better truth.

1:34:20

Even the thing you had earlier where you're late in

1:34:22

the nineteen twenties. That's when this happens. When you have

1:34:24

the facts, Are facts don't have a side like these

1:34:27

are just the facts and you can do with them

1:34:29

what you will. but I envy that. Ability

1:34:31

to walk that line of like i can

1:34:33

see your side of the side. But here's

1:34:36

actually what happened. And. There's

1:34:38

a huge power in that. Yeah, but you have.

1:34:41

Is. True Christianity is a nice earnest

1:34:43

around the house. Cause I will. I do a

1:34:46

lot of I'm. I'm an American

1:34:48

religion and science. I mostly do. Like. And

1:34:51

is legally sixteen hundreds onward. but

1:34:53

really mostly the results of nineteen seventies

1:34:56

after. Right arrow know the really hit my

1:34:58

sweet spot after nineteen seventies like this. it's

1:35:00

which all yesterday did great. I'm your girl

1:35:02

specific that. I think

1:35:04

America I mean you and I sat talk

1:35:06

a long time and will. You're so interested

1:35:08

enough in history and like it. I find

1:35:10

it so compelling because. Because.

1:35:14

It's just like where your readers like

1:35:16

context candidates. The overwhelming joy as saying

1:35:18

context it. without context we will just

1:35:20

repeat history. And without context you don't

1:35:22

know why anyone. Is angry about what that

1:35:24

we need It need the facts many people to

1:35:27

refute them so that I can get sweaty in

1:35:29

my armpits. Angry about self with your bottom of

1:35:31

the com and like top that top. The red

1:35:33

hand prints know it's I competition. Years can be

1:35:36

small. What's your bottom of the com? I

1:35:39

as a completely rents and

1:35:41

all. ah homicidal response when

1:35:43

people say good vibes. Saw

1:35:45

the entire good vibes. Section and

1:35:47

target since since is always that

1:35:50

still whatever. Joanna Games is

1:35:52

doing as I. Don't.

1:35:56

Think people realize that the

1:35:58

idea that we are. vibrating

1:36:00

at a frequency is a religious

1:36:03

belief. It is not a surfer

1:36:06

quote. It is not a neutral

1:36:08

phrase. It is a religious belief

1:36:10

that we are emitting

1:36:13

at certain frequencies and that

1:36:15

we have to keep... that our personal,

1:36:17

our emotions have to

1:36:19

be kept positive or else

1:36:21

we are not emitting at a high enough

1:36:24

frequency and that it affects everything and puts

1:36:26

us in tune with God and the world

1:36:28

etc. and that there's planes, you know, like

1:36:30

different, like vibrational

1:36:33

levels and that you want to be at

1:36:35

the high level and that is,

1:36:37

I mean, wrote a

1:36:39

whole book about how positive thinking developed,

1:36:41

but it makes me feel crazy when people

1:36:44

are saying a religious thing and not realizing

1:36:46

it's religious. You can believe in that, but

1:36:48

just don't think it's a... don't

1:36:50

think it's a cute little catchphrase. It's not cute. I

1:36:53

mean, it's an

1:36:55

affirmation. It's a declaration that the

1:36:57

best way to

1:36:59

live means that we have to overwhelmingly

1:37:02

crowd all our emotions onto one side of

1:37:04

the spectrum. Oh, okay. And

1:37:06

that... but the problem is, I think,

1:37:08

is that to

1:37:11

really accept life

1:37:13

as it is, you need to have... what

1:37:15

you need is range, not positivity. Because

1:37:18

there's no positivity without negativity, right?

1:37:21

And if you're in a ridiculous situation, we

1:37:23

can't just be running and scraping good vibes only.

1:37:25

All we're doing is being able to gaslighting. It's

1:37:28

asking people to pretend to do an extra

1:37:30

layer of emotional work instead of learning to

1:37:32

live in reality. Oh my god. I wish

1:37:34

we had talked about this earlier. I... First

1:37:38

of all, it feels very Eastern to me.

1:37:40

Like the vibration feels very like a Hindu.

1:37:44

I don't know, but then I think maybe that also

1:37:46

sounds deeply Jewish. Like you say it's religious, like what

1:37:49

is that? Yeah. Well, it's actually

1:37:51

an American religion that was... Which

1:37:53

one? Largely, it was an

1:37:55

amalgamation of people's beliefs. Kind of... I

1:37:58

didn't think of it two ways. One is people

1:38:01

were just discovering the power, they

1:38:03

were just developing the discipline of psychology and they were starting

1:38:05

to think about the power of the mind. So

1:38:07

it's almost like a religious expression that came out of

1:38:09

psychological discovery, like

1:38:13

mesmerism, like this is like, turn

1:38:16

of the century, the last century. Yeah, it's like late

1:38:18

19th century. I listen to the little podcast so I

1:38:20

know about like spiritual, the spiritual awakening

1:38:23

of America, all of a sudden. Well, this is like

1:38:25

the development of a thing called new thought, but because no one

1:38:27

knows the term new thought, it's just kind of, I just

1:38:30

think of it as like early Oprah, and

1:38:33

that a certain kind of like self-esteem

1:38:36

language about psychology becomes,

1:38:38

gets this sort of

1:38:40

religious sheen. With mesmerism.

1:38:43

Oh, like you

1:38:45

are getting sleepy. Oh, okay. And so

1:38:47

there was this, trying

1:38:50

to think of the totally obvious word related to

1:38:52

mesmerism. It is. Hypnotism.

1:38:54

Hypnotism. And so when people were starting

1:38:56

to discover things like

1:38:59

the placebo effect. So give me a timeframe for

1:39:01

this. Late 19th century. Okay. There's

1:39:03

traveling mesmerists, so people who are putting

1:39:06

people to sleep, doing these kind of mass displays

1:39:09

of like really interesting psychological

1:39:12

phenomenon, but it's being passed off

1:39:14